Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

[Greystache]

If you were on the match committee what changes would you make for next Saturday's game against Geelong at Etihad stadium?*!

As always a brief explanation for your changes would be good.

[Ghost Dog]

In: Pearce
Out: Gia

More speed needed.

[Rocco Jones]

Will Griffen be OK to play?

In: Vez, Addison (if Griff isn't right)
Out: Gia, Griff (if injured)

[Hotdog60]

Out: Gia, Griffen???

In: Markovic, Pearce

I'm a bit concerned about the height of the Geelong forwards.

[Greystache]

In- Vez
Out- Gia

[Ghost Dog]

Austin as an option for their height?

[Hotdog60]

Austin as an option for their height?

Austin would need to be upgraded which I suppose would be possible with Higgins on the LTIL

[Rocco Jones]

Austin as an option for their height?

Not sure here. I rate Morris as clearly our best KP defender no matter what his size is. Roughy is the clear number 2. After that I have Young ahead of the other KP defenders, again rather would defensive ability over just pure height.

Cats have Tomahawk, Pods and the resting ruck. I really try to exploit rather than be worried about West/Bilcavs.

The only reason I would play another tall defender is to free up Morris to play on a small forward, but I think Lower/Picken can do that.

[lemmon]

I agree with Ghost Dog in that we need another key back, I don't mind Morris on guys like J Riewoldt who aren't really gorillas and even though he was manful today on Tex he was thrown around a bit and its another step up in physicality to go to Hawkins and Pods. These are two big, big boys who are happy to wrestle and take contested grabs, if we go Rough, Morris, Young we start looking seriously small if one gets on top (which is going to happen with how much ball will be going in).

I would have loved Tommy back this week to take Pods with Roughy on Hawkins and Morris perhaps Chappy but I suppose we have to make the best of a bad situation and bring in Talia/Markovic. It gets nightmarish if Hawkins gets off the leash and kicks 3 in the first and we have to switch Tom Young onto one of these monsters because we haven't brought in tall cover.

Out- JJ (was cooked today), Gia
In- Talia, Vez

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

In. Roberts Talia and Pearce
Out. Gia Tutt and Stevens
We need to reorganize our attack by bringing in Roberts to replace Cordy who is better suited only as a second ruckman back up to Minson.
The defence needs a second tall to support Roughead which allows Morris to pick up one of the damaging Cats smaller forwards. JJ to add an injection of badly needed pace as a small forward with Pearce to take his place in defence.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree that it's a good time to play another key defender, but only if it's Talia. If we select Markovic, we might as well play one short because it's pointless. I've expressed my opinion on Markovic enough, anyway.

Aside from that, we clearly need some forward options. Veszpremi has to be a certainty and although underdone Roberts/Addison should be closely looked at. Pearce has probably earned a game and could replace JJ.

In terms of the outs, Gia would be the first on my list. He is really, really struggling which is a worry so early in the season. Cordy's position needs to be looked at, he did handle the ball well in the first half but his lack of competitiveness in the air is embarrassing at times. Griffen looks a likely out.

[Sedat]

Cordy's position needs to be looked at, he did handle the ball well in the first half but his lack of competitiveness in the air is embarrassing at times. Griffen looks a likely out.
I'm no Cordy fan but he was much better than Jones today. That's not to say he was anything better than ordinary, but that was still far more than Jones brought to the table today. Last week was the bare minimum we should expect from Jones each week in terms of workrate and impact, not today's non existent effort.

[Happy Days]

Vez has to come in.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm no Cordy fan but he was much better than Jones today. That's not to say he anything better than ordinary, but that was still far more than Jones brought to the table today. Last week was the bare minimum we should expect from Jones each week in terms of workrate and impact, not today's non existent effort.

Jones was nothing short of appalling, from the very moment he decided to slide for that ball near the goal square instead of keeping his feet and kicking a simple goal.

However, at least Jones has demonstrated an ability to play at the top level. Considering our options (or lack of) he's ahead of the rest. Cordy, on the other hand, is being kept in the side because he can relieve in the ruck and pick up ground balls. Let's find an alternative for ruck relief, and somebody who can at least resemble the image of a key forward.

[bornadog]

Let's find an alternative for ruck relief, and somebody who can at least resemble the image of a key forward.

Who do you suggest? What about Roberts.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Who do you suggest? What about Roberts.

Yeah, Roberts would be my choice but I guess it depends on his fitness. I think today was only his second game back?

Williams would have been ideal, but once again he's injured. I really think if the trend continues, Williams needs to be cut from the list at year's end.

[Sedat]

However, at least Jones has demonstrated an ability to play at the top level. Considering our options (or lack of) he's ahead of the rest. Cordy, on the other hand, is being kept in the side because he can relieve in the ruck and pick up ground balls. Let's find an alternative for ruck relief, and somebody who can at least resemble the image of a key forward.
Agree wholeheartedly TBB, just talking strictly about today's game. Jones has a future at this level, which is what makes efforts like today so frustrating.

[bornadog]

Yeah, Roberts would be my choice but I guess it depends on his fitness. I think today was only his second game back?

Williams would have been ideal, but once again he's injured. I really think if the trend continues, Williams needs to be cut from the list at year's end.

Roberts played development last week and senior Willi this. Still only 19 years old (turns 20 in June) and 194cm. Has put on 6 kg but needs to add more.

[boydogs]

Out: Gia, Tutt
In: Veszpremi, Grant

[lemmon]

Yeah, Roberts would be my choice but I guess it depends on his fitness. I think today was only his second game back?

Williams would have been ideal, but once again he's injured. I really think if the trend continues, Williams needs to be cut from the list at year's end.

Would it be throwing Roberts to the wolves though? The kid was a beanpole last year, and isn't ruckman height, I would just hate to see him with a knee in the ribs from a big gorilla. If we do go that way and drop Cordy for Roberts, I'd be inclined to bring in Markovic as the extra tall back we need and let him do 5 minutes in the ruck a quarter

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree wholeheartedly TBB, just talking strictly about today's game. Jones has a future at this level, which is what makes efforts like today so frustrating.

Probably sounded like I was disagreeing with you Sedat, definitely wasn't :p. You're dead on, Jones' game was one of the biggest disappointments after his efforts last week. We should be able to expect much more from him.


Would it be throwing Roberts to the wolves though? The kid was a beanpole last year, and isn't ruckman height, I would just hate to see him with a knee in the ribs from a big gorilla. If we do go that way and drop Cordy for Roberts, I'd be inclined to bring in Markovic as the extra tall back we need and let him do 5 minutes in the ruck a quarter

I wouldn't use Roberts in the ruck, in that case I would have Jones relieve momentarily or as you said bring in a Talia/Markovic type and have them do it.

[Ozza]

A fair bit of keenness to promote Roberts is a bit surprising. Let him show a bit at VFL level first - he has toe arn his spot.

The 3 goals 6 he kicked at Development level was against an undermanned side, and primarily on a bloke 4 inches shorter than him.

Veszpremi seems to be putting a few runs on the board to put himself in the frame. We are in real trouble if Griffen has a long term injury. And we need Bobby back desperately.

Gia will probably end up playing this week due to lack of options - but its becoming a real worry as to how much he gets exploited the other way.

[bornadog]

Would it be throwing Roberts to the wolves though? The kid was a beanpole last year, and isn't ruckman height, I would just hate to see him with a knee in the ribs from a big gorilla. If we do go that way and drop Cordy for Roberts, I'd be inclined to bring in Markovic as the extra tall back we need and let him do 5 minutes in the ruck a quarter

I actually thought Cordy played a good game yesterday compared to some in the past, in other words, I can see improvement in him every week. He competed, he was good at ground level, just couldn't snag a mark.

Changes:

In: Vez, Smith

Out: Gia, Stevens or if Griffo injured then Stevens reprieve.

[soupman]

I actually thought Cordy played a good game yesterday compared to some in the past, in other words, I can see improvement in him every week. He competed, he was good at ground level, just couldn't snag a mark.


I agree. At least he got involved which is more than alot of our players can say. 2 out of his 3 games this year I think he's been solid and has shown an ability to get the ball at times, he does however need to make a bigger impact on marking contests. I'm happy to persist.

[always right]

I don't expect Cordy to be taking contested grabs but he has to at least impact on the contest to create a spillage. To me this is his biggest shortfall...too many time he doesn't even get hands on the ball.

Vez deserves his chance and should come in for Griffen. Gia gets yet another reprieve.

[westbulldog]

Out Gia
In Grant

[The Pie Man]

In: Addison, Veszpremi, Pearce

Out: Gia, Dahlhaus, Griffen

Stevens will want to play better than that to keep his spot.
Can't persist with Gia any more - suspect his ommision is the closest to reality it's ever been
Dahl's had two very bad games in a row - no harm in gonig back to VFL to find some form
I hope Griffen can get up, but the vision from the rooms didn't look promising

Addison may need another game - if it were me, I'd play him
Ves & Pearce are both showing solid VFL form and provide some speed - not endurance (at least in Paddy's case) but some burst effort

Stretching relevance here, (and my family vehemently disagreed with me on this) I thought Cordy was decent yesterday...I am a critic, but he was nowhere near our worst yesterday. Still think his better spot long term would be number 1 ruck, but I just wanted to throw that out there given I've been (am) critical of him

[craigsahibee]

If Macca is all about teaching, this week Smith comes in and goes to Selwood.

Clay will not be able to run all game with him, but it will not hurt to run with him at times. Just on Smith, it seemed that yesterday's conditions would have been ideal for him.

Roberts has to come in to the forward line. I'm worried about Harry Taylor. He has shown he can go forward and be damaging so I think we will need to load up our forward line with marking options to keep him honest. Whether we are able to take any marks is a different matter, but at least we can look like we might.

Gia needs a rest (PC speak) and possibly Dahlhaus.

If Griffen doesn't come up I would like to see Pearce come in.

OUT : Gia, Dahlhaus, Lower, Picken and Tutt
IN: Roberts, Talia, Smith, Veszpremi and Grant


BACKS: MORRIS ROUGHEAD YOUNG
JOHANISSEN TALIA GOODES

MIDS: WALLIS BOYD COONEY
MINSON SMITH LIBERATORE


FWDS: MACRAE ROBERTS GRANT
STRINGER JONES CORDY


INT: CROSS STEVENS GRIFFEN VESZPREMI (sub)

[Greystache]

If Macca is all about teaching, this week Smith comes in and goes to Selwood.

Clay will not be able to run all game with him, but it will not hurt to run with him at times.

I wouldn't mind seeing this either, but I think it's just as likely Wallis will get the job.

[Mantis]

Clay will not be able to run all game with him, but it will not hurt to run with him at times. Just on Smith, it seemed that yesterday's conditions would have been ideal for him.



Our problem wasn't winning the ball, it was disposing of it... Smith would've just added to the problem.

[bornadog]

If Macca is all about teaching, this week Smith comes in and goes to Selwood.

Clay will not be able to run all game with him, but it will not hurt to run with him at times. Just on Smith, it seemed that yesterday's conditions would have been ideal for him.

Roberts has to come in to the forward line. I'm worried about Harry Taylor. He has shown he can go forward and be damaging so I think we will need to load up our forward line with marking options to keep him honest. Whether we are able to take any marks is a different matter, but at least we can look like we might.

Gia needs a rest (PC speak) and possibly Dahlhaus.

If Griffen doesn't come up I would like to see Pearce come in.

OUT : Gia, Dahlhaus, Lower, Picken and Tutt
IN: Roberts, Talia, Smith, Veszpremi and Grant


BACKS: MORRIS ROUGHEAD YOUNG
JOHANISSEN TALIA GOODES

MIDS: WALLIS BOYD COONEY
MINSON SMITH LIBERATORE


FWDS: MACRAE ROBERTS GRANT
STRINGER JONES CORDY


INT: CROSS STEVENS GRIFFEN VESZPREMI (sub)


Love your forward line the land of the giants with only Macrae under 190cm

[craigsahibee]

Love your forward line the land of the giants with only Macrae under 190cm

Macrae walked past me after the Richmond game. He is a lot taller than I thought he was.

Obviously if Murphy is fit he probably pushes Grant out of there. I just feel we need to mix it up a bit and make the opposition at least put some thought in to how to combat our forward line.

Would love to see Grant and Macrae push up the ground then work really hard back in to the Forward 50. Grant's field kicking is better than his goal kicking. If they push up and leave a bit of space behind them it will make hitting a target inside 50 that little bit easier. It all depends on the speed of the ball movement up the ground. If we can get some separation by protecting our ball carriers and take the game on with an instinctive style of play, we may still not win but it beats going sideways to stationary targets.

[craigsahibee]

Our problem wasn't winning the ball, it was disposing of it... Smith would've just added to the problem.

Agree.

We didn't adapt to the conditions. Ridiculous handballs and 50/50 passes.

We clearly won the stoppages yet didn't adjust the game to suit our strengths. Kicks down the line were the order of the day, yet we continued to open ourselves up through the corridor by trying to switch the play and invariably missing targets or kicking into the mark.

[bornadog]

Macrae walked past me after the Richmond game. He is a lot taller than I thought he was..

188cm and probably still growing

[G-Mo77]

Griffen's out for 2 weeks. Some big shoes to fill there.

Injuries have hit hard and it's to our senior group.

[bornadog]

Griffen's out for 2 weeks. Some big shoes to fill there.

Injuries have hit hard and it's to our senior group.

From a pretty good start to the season (health wise) the list is just growing

[G-Mo77]

From a pretty good start to the season (health wise) the list is just growing

I suppose we could add Williams to that growing list for at least 2 - 3 weeks.

[bornadog]

I suppose we could add Williams to that growing list for at least 2 - 3 weeks.

No need to add him, he is on permanently :D

[Ozza]

Griffen's out for 2 weeks. Some big shoes to fill there.

Injuries have hit hard and it's to our senior group.

The way he looked yesterday - I feared it would be a lot longer. I can cope with 2 weeks in the scheme of things.

[Scorlibo]

In: Veszpremi, Grant
Out: Griffen, Jones

Grant starts from FF.

[DOG GOD]

The match committee won't drop gia, so I'm not even going there..

In- as long as its vez I don't care what other changes.

[Greystache]

In- Vez
Out- Gia

I've changed my mind

In- Vez, Talia, Smith

Out- Gia, Cordy, Griffen (injured)

Roughead to take Hawkins, Morris to take Johnson, and Talia to take JPod.

[jeemak]

I've changed my mind

In- Vez, Talia, Smith

Out- Gia, Cordy, Griffen (injured)

Roughead to take Hawkins, Morris to take Johnson, and Talia to take JPod.

Jones supporting in the ruck?

If so, during that time who plays forward as a tall target?

[Greystache]

Jones supporting in the ruck?

If so, during that time who plays forward as a tall target?

Yep. I'd been reluctant to go that way but there's been a few games already that he's not been involved for long periods of time and it may help him get going, plus it reduces our imbalance of having Cordy in the team. When he's on I'd play Stringer as the primary target when Jones is rucking, if he's the sub then we go short for 5 mins.

[jeemak]

I suppose my position, and it has been for a while, is that Cordy just gets games. If the MC thinks his development is helped by a stint in the twos to take the pressure off then so be it, play him in the twos. If not, he plays for mine as do some others to the detriment of current game day performances. I'd happily have each of Cordy, Jones and Stringer play forward for a couple of weeks.

I'm probably at a stage where I'm conceding Gia is cooked as an AFL footballer. I really have rated him over the years, though I just think he's too slow now and can't physically repeat his efforts to keep up against younger opponents (an issue exacerbated by his inability to kick goals). However, I don't necessarily think any replacement for Gia will improve the team's game day output just yet, but we need to save sentimentality perhaps (if ever) for when we're a good team that can carry it, not when we're a bad team that needs to develop.

Vesz needs a game on the back of 37 touches and 3 goals.

[Mofra]

Jeemak, agree with everything there.
People bemoan a lack of tall targets yet want to drop the only R2 on our list who is even close to being competitive in the role.

Tall forwards just don't develop at VFL level then suddenly dominate at AFL level when they're promoted.

I like Roberts, but he can't ruck and isn't demanding a game off the back of VFL form. Williams is injured. Jones is barely a ruck and as our "great white hope" should stick to CHF where he most benefits the team.

Whilst Cordy is trying hard, battling and not really getting much of it, we just have to stick with him unless someone else puts their hand up for the role. The only player on the list playing the role at VFL level (Campbell) is well behind him.

[Greystache]

Jeemak, agree with everything there.
People bemoan a lack of tall targets yet want to drop the only R2 on our list who is even close to being competitive in the role.

Tall forwards just don't develop at VFL level then suddenly dominate at AFL level when they're promoted.

I like Roberts, but he can't ruck and isn't demanding a game off the back of VFL form. Williams is injured. Jones is barely a ruck and as our "great white hope" should stick to CHF where he most benefits the team.

Whilst Cordy is trying hard, battling and not really getting much of it, we just have to stick with him unless someone else puts their hand up for the role. The only player on the list playing the role at VFL level (Campbell) is well behind him.

The reality is Cordy is tall and plays in the forward line but that is the only way he can be described as a tall forward. He doesn't mark over head ever and struggles to make a contest let alone impact one. Cordy is a tall in much the same way as Cameron Wight was, he has fairly good agility for his height and is reasonable at ground level, but doesn't actually have any of the attributes of a key position player, ie marking, body strength, ability to lead or read the flight of the ball better than his opopponents etc. He's basically a mid sized player who lacks the athleticism to play that role.

The second ruck only needs to actually ruck for about 5 mins a quarter, that's not likely to impact Jones' role as a forward, and when we've gone extended periods without scoring it will actually keep him involved in the game a bit more.

Cordy is going to be no poorer for playing some vfl footy and being made to earn a place. He may actually take a mark or two at that level or be stronger than an opponent for a change and get some confidence out of it. He's played every game he's been available for in the past year and hasn't shown any sign of improvement from it.

[LostDoggy]

How about instead of going on the defensive and bringing in defenders (and players learning the defensive craft at that) we go the opposite and attempt to create a tall forward line to try and exploit Mackie, Lonergan, Taylor etc ? A forward line of Stringer, Vez & Cooney (defensive pressure, pace/goal sneak ability) Roberts and Jones (marking pressure).

The forward line hasn’t worked since the Brisbane game. If we can create a forward line that makes Geelong rework their matchups then perhaps this can instil confidence in the team that there are targets and defensive pressure down their that’ll reward their effort.

If Boyd, Wallis & Libba can at least equal out the clearance work rate of the Geelong midfielders then we can be a chance.

We can’t go into this game with the same setups, the same predictable game plan and mindset of teaching by repetition and expect to be competitive with the Cats.

Regards to second ruck. Minson has been dominate/competitive all all games so far. This has still resulted in little effectiveness from contests. Drop the 2nd ruck option of Cordy. It's not a huge element in our gamplan currently and it's been ineffective to date.

Out: Gia, Cordy & Griff
In: Roberts, Vez & Smith

[Bulldog4life]

Would only make 2 changes.

In: Smith & Vez

Out: Griff & Gia

Would persevere with Cordy at this stage. Wouldn't like to see Jones forced to do ruck work. He needs to focus all his energy at this stage of his career in the forward line. Probably won't drop Gia but I hope Vez gets an opportunity.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The reality is Cordy is tall and plays in the forward line but that is the only way he can be described as a tall forward. He doesn't mark over head ever and struggles to make a contest let alone impact one. Cordy is a tall in much the same way as Cameron Wight was, he has fairly good agility for his height and is reasonable at ground level, but doesn't actually have any of the attributes of a key position player, ie marking, body strength, ability to lead or read the flight of the ball better than his opopponents etc. He's basically a mid sized player who lacks the athleticism to play that role.

The second ruck only needs to actually ruck for about 5 mins a quarter, that's not likely to impact Jones' role as a forward, and when we've gone extended periods without scoring it will actually keep him involved in the game a bit more.

Cordy is going to be no poorer for playing some vfl footy and being made to earn a place. He may actually take a mark or two at that level or be stronger than an opponent for a change and get some confidence out of it. He's played every game he's been available for in the past year and hasn't shown any sign of improvement from it.

Sums it up well.

In my opinion, the only way Cordy makes it is by packing on another 5-10kg and becoming a first choice ruck in 2015. He's quite simply at long odds to ever make it as a forward because as Grey stated, the only resemblance of a key forward he has is his listed height.

[Ghost Dog]

he's been available for in the past year and hasn't shown any sign of improvement from it.

Nope, have to totally disagree with this one. There has been a marked improvement in his strength, reading of the play and aggressiveness. . Sunday was a poor game to judge a tall on given it was Monsoon like conditions.
Do agree he needs to go back to the VFL. If you can't mark the ball, don't expect to be in the forward line at AFL level.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

How about instead of going on the defensive and bringing in defenders (and players learning the defensive craft at that) we go the opposite and attempt to create a tall forward line to try and exploit Mackie, Lonergan, Taylor etc ? A forward line of Stringer, Vez & Cooney (defensive pressure, pace/goal sneak ability) Roberts and Jones (marking pressure).

The forward line hasn’t worked since the Brisbane game. If we can create a forward line that makes Geelong rework their matchups then perhaps this can instil confidence in the team that there are targets and defensive pressure down their that’ll reward their effort.

If Boyd, Wallis & Libba can at least equal out the clearance work rate of the Geelong midfielders then we can be a chance.

We can’t go into this game with the same setups, the same predictable game plan and mindset of teaching by repetition and expect to be competitive with the Cats.

Regards to second ruck. Minson has been dominate/crompetitive all all games so far. This has still resulted in little effectiveness from contests. Drop the 2nd ruck option of Cordy. It's not a huge element in our gamplan currently and it's been ineffective to date.

Out: Gia, Cordy & Griff
In: Roberts, Vez & Smith

I like your thoughts on the forward restructure. I would consider moving JJ forward in an attempt to bring some badly needed pace in the forward line. Pearce would be my choice to replace him in defence. We need another big defender against Geelong and Talia could be a good inclusion. This would release Morris to play on a Motlop. Cordy and Jones have been given long enough as key forwards without succeeding and I agree that Cordy should go back to Willy. The loss of Griffen is a blow. To counteract the Cats dominant midfield Cooney Boyd and Liberatore will need to spend longer periods on the ground.
In. Roberts Talia Vez and Pearce
Out. Cordy Gia Tutt and Griffen

[soupman]

I don't like the idea of JJ playing forward.

We've spent the past three years developing him from a very raw footballer into a very promising half back. He has attributes we need in defence, he's not a bad user, has pace, can break lines and is solid defensively. He is also clearly one of the core grup of young defenders we are trying to develop together to work well as a unit. I don't see the logic in throwing him up forward in a position we've not trained him for just because he has pace.

The bigger picture right now isn't whether we will be marginally better with JJ or Roughead playing forward, or Jones swinging to CHB, but rather what position do we want them to develop in?

If we want pace in our forwardline pick a pacy forward (like Grant or Tutt), not a pacy defender who's been showing consistent improvement.

[jeemak]

Sums it up well.

In my opinion, the only way Cordy makes it is by packing on another 5-10kg and becoming a first choice ruck in 2015. He's quite simply at long odds to ever make it as a forward because as Grey stated, the only resemblance of a key forward he has is his listed height.

But he's being groomed as a back up ruckman/forward pocket, not a specialist key forward. The idea with players like Cordy, once they mature and fill a spot in a well structured forward line is they stretch the defense.

With Stringer, Jones and possibly Grant up forward and all matured, adding a guy like Cordy stretches most defences I know of.

Agree that he needs another 5 or so KG's added, particularly around his core. But if we're expecting him to be a genuine key forward then we're all up for disappointment.

[Dog54]

Does anyone see the Merit of elevating and playing Austin.

He played great on Jpod last year and is in an age bracket we are deficient in.

He is athletic is in from and could also Allow morris to play on a good smaller sized player and relieve Picken from that role. Play picken as a defensive forward.

[Ghost Dog]

Absolutely. Austin looked fine to me moving around the Seagulls backline.

[Rocco Jones]

I think the Cats are a great example of how we can use Morris' versatility normally but my concern is that this isn't normal for Morris.

He is just coming back from injury and I am wary of changing things up too much for him. Is it too much to ask him to play on a dangerous tall (aerobic capacity etc)?

[jeemak]

Does anyone see the Merit of elevating and playing Austin.

He played great on Jpod last year and is in an age bracket we are deficient in.

He is athletic is in from and could also Allow morris to play on a good smaller sized player and relieve Picken from that role. Play picken as a defensive forward.

For the most part I don't see the value in playing Picken anywhere else than in a tagging role. I suppose an argument could be made for playing him forward while we're down in personnel there, though I'd prefer to see Vesz get an opportunity, and have Dahlhaus master his craft as the small forward who can do a lot in attack and defensively until he develops his tank sufficiently to have longer spurts in the midfield.

I'm not sold on having Austin promoted, just yet. One or two more good performances at the lower level might give him an opportunity, though if Roughead and Morris keep putting in solid performances he might have to wait.

[Ozza]

One thing I definitely DO NOT want to do - is play a tall forward line against Geelong. They are a much much better defensive unit against a tall forward line and love the ball coming in high and long.

The teams that have scored well against Geelong have been smaller set ups. Carlton have traditionally scored well against Geelong for instance. Look at the Hawthorn game earlier this year - and the Hawks were on top when they were playing a short game going inside 50 - short passes and small leading players getting the footy. In teh second half - they reverted to long balls on top of Buddy, Hale and Roughead.

The one way to get pummelled by Geelong, is to have a big or slow forward line (or both).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'm thinking, v Geelong with the most undermanned side since Garry Merrington played for us as a star, just the game that Grant will kick four or five. Ya never know.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

[QUOTE=jeemak;317216]But he's being groomed as a back up ruckman/forward pocket, not a specialist key forward. The idea with players like Cordy, once they mature and fill a spot in a well structured forward line is they stretch the defense.



Love your posts, sorry to annoy but did you know "defense' is an Americanism, it's a verb and "defence" is the noun.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

The reality is Cordy is tall and plays in the forward line but that is the only way he can be described as a tall forward. He doesn't mark over head ever and struggles to make a contest let alone impact one. Cordy is a tall in much the same way as Cameron Wight was, he has fairly good agility for his height and is reasonable at ground level, but doesn't actually have any of the attributes of a key position player, ie marking, body strength, ability to lead or read the flight of the ball better than his opponents etc. He's basically a mid sized player who lacks the athleticism to play that role.

Mofra I rarely disagree with you but o no, did you have to mention Cam Wight in the same breath as Cordy? You're pointing the bone at him, he will wither away to nothing.
Seriously, I guess what you say illuminates why we chased Chris Dawes with big money; the coaching staff must see Cordy's position as the most critically weak to our setup.

[jeemak]

[QUOTE=jeemak;317216]But he's being groomed as a back up ruckman/forward pocket, not a specialist key forward. The idea with players like Cordy, once they mature and fill a spot in a well structured forward line is they stretch the defense.



Love your posts, sorry to annoy but did you know "defense' is an Americanism, it's a verb and "defence" is the noun.

No, I didn't. Noted, I'll be making the appropriate adjustments with which to move forward.

[jeemak]

[QUOTE=Greystache;317163]The reality is Cordy is tall and plays in the forward line but that is the only way he can be described as a tall forward. He doesn't mark over head ever and struggles to make a contest let alone impact one. Cordy is a tall in much the same way as Cameron Wight was, he has fairly good agility for his height and is reasonable at ground level, but doesn't actually have any of the attributes of a key position player, ie marking, body strength, ability to lead or read the flight of the ball better than his opopponents etc. He's basically a mid sized player who lacks the athleticism to play that role.

Mofra I rarely disagree with you but o no, did you have to mention Cam Wight in the same breath as Cordy? You're pointing the bone at him, he will wither away to nothing.
Seriously, I guess what you say illuminates why we chased Chris Dawes with big money; the coaching staff must see Cordy's position as the most critically weak to our setup.

Greystache, you mean?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

[QUOTE=BornInDroopSt'54;317269]

Greystache, you mean?

Yes Greystache not Mofra sorry and thanks Jeemak.

[ratsmac]

I am surprised by so many calling for Roberts to selected in the side. He kicked 3 goals in a 89 point win. As a forward I would say that is below par. 1 goal a quarter would be par IMO. He should have to earn his spot in the team and not just be gifted one due to someone else's poor form. The ideal scenario would be that Roberts forces the MC to select him because he is showing that he is ready to step up and then drop someone on poor from. I like Roberts but he still needs to develop some more in the VFL IMO.

I believe that Gia is on borrowed time and has Ves breathing down his neck. Gia has been so disappointing last year and is continuing the trend this year. It is terrible to see someone who I used to love to watch play football struggle to even get to a contest. Gia is probably safe due to the growing injury list, but for me he is a massive liability to the team atm and has to step aside.

Ves probably deserves another crack at the big time even though he has played well in 2 easy wins at VFL level. I would love to see him dominate in a close game and show that he has some heart. However his efforts can't go unrewarded for too long before his confidence get crushed if he is overlooked again. At least he has nice disposal that we could desperately use right now.

That said...

OUT - Griffen (inj), Gia, Tutt
IN - Addison, Ves, Talia

B - Morris, Roughy, Addison
HB - Goodes, Young, Talia, Cross (loose),
C- Picken, Boyd, Macrae
HF - Dal, Jones, Ves
F - Cordy, Stringer

Foll - Minson, Libba, Cooney
Int - Stevens, Lower, Wallis
Sub - JJ

[bornadog]

OUT - Griffen (inj), Gia, Tutt


Tutt is an interesting one. Many posters rated his game on the weekend and some gave him votes, others want to drop him.

I thought he started really well but faded out and will be better for the run. Personally I wouldn't drop him. I hate bringing in players for one game only, I think he needs at least three and lets see how he goes.

[Ozza]

Tutt is an interesting one. Many posters rated his game on the weekend and some gave him votes, others want to drop him.

I thought he started really well but faded out and will be better for the run. Personally I wouldn't drop him. I hate bringing in players for one game only, I think he needs at least three and lets see how he goes.

I agree Bornadog. I'd like to see Tutt have a good go at it over at least 3-4 weeks.

I think when he backs himself - he can be a good player. He certainly has attributes that we don't have in spades currently. His main positive was his intent to tackle on the weekend.

Actually, within about 2 minutes of each other - I saw a poor missed tackle by Crossy, and then a terriffic tackle applied by Tutt. It was twilight zone stuff.

If we can get the ball in Tutt's hands a bit over the next few weeks - he may get some confidence up, and show us something.

[Greystache]

Mofra I rarely disagree with you but o no, did you have to mention Cam Wight in the same breath as Cordy? You're pointing the bone at him, he will wither away to nothing.
Seriously, I guess what you say illuminates why we chased Chris Dawes with big money; the coaching staff must see Cordy's position as the most critically weak to our setup.

Other than expectations, they're on the same level. In fact at the same stage of their respective careers you could easily argue Wight is ahead. My point is neither is actually a key position player in the true sense despite both being 200cm+

[Sedat]

If we can get the ball in Tutt's hands a bit over the next few weeks - he may get some confidence up, and show us something.
I have more faith in Tutt making it as an AFL player than Howard. He still has a long way to go but the renewed defensive intent coupled with his pace and attacking instincts give him some chance of making it.

I think Dalrymple has done some good things at the ND and rookie drafts since he took over from Clayton, but his first ND was an absolute disaster and has set the timing of our rebuild back by 12 months as a result.

[Sedat]

Other than expectations, they're on the same level. In fact at the same stage of their respective careers you could easily argue Wight is ahead. My point is neither is actually a key position player in the true sense despite both being 200cm+
Couldn't agree more. Height doesn't = KPF, it is the hunger to compete that dictates whether or not a KPF will be successful. Brad Johnson was a better KPF than Cordy ever will be. And Stringer at 191cms will be a terrific KPF because he has that instinctive hunger and desire to compete that a Cordy currently lacks (and in all likelihood will never capture).

[DragzLS1]

Couldn't agree more. Height doesn't = KPF, it is the hunger to compete that dictates whether or not a KPF will be successful. Brad Johnson was a better KPF than Cordy ever will be. And Stringer at 191cms will be a terrific KPF because he has that instinctive hunger and desire to compete that a Cordy currently lacks (and in all likelihood will never capture).


Completely agree, Stringer is too short in most peoples books to be a kpf, yet, he could turn out to be 1 of the best in teh competition. Its the hungry and drive that makes them.. Cordy has the assets, but does he have teh hunger (along with Grant who has more assets then bh imo)

[Happy Days]

I am surprised by so many calling for Roberts to selected in the side. He kicked 3 goals in a 89 point win. As a forward I would say that is below par. 1 goal a quarter would be par IMO. He should have to earn his spot in the team and not just be gifted one due to someone else's poor form. The ideal scenario would be that Roberts forces the MC to select him because he is showing that he is ready to step up and then drop someone on poor from. I like Roberts but he still needs to develop some more in the VFL IMO.


Ves probably deserves another crack at the big time even though he has played well in 2 easy wins at VFL level. I would love to see him dominate in a close game and show that he has some heart. However his efforts can't go unrewarded for too long before his confidence get crushed if he is overlooked again. At least he has nice disposal that we could desperately use right now.



Roberts would have had 6 if he didn't have to kick into the Willy hurricane and took a set shot from 1 metre out instead of playing on for reasons unfathomable. As for Vez, I understand the caution of his dominance, but dude was everywhere; worked his arse off to be first to the ball at all times, which is the big knock on him, no?

In: Addison, Roberts, Vez
Out: Cordy, Gia, Griffen

Everyone has Stringer playing again; is he the sub again? Is playing 30 minutes really the way to build a match fitness base?

[soupman]

FB: 38. Morris, 23. Roughead, 33. Lower
HB: 44. Goodes, 31. Young, 39. Johanissen
C: 11. Macrae, 5. Boyd, 17. Cooney
HF: 15. Tutt, 19. Jones, 6. Dahlhaus
FF: 9. Stringer, 49. Cordy, 8. Veszpremi
R: 27. Minson, 21. Liberatore, 25. Stevens

Int: 42. Picken, 3. Wallis, 4. Cross, 14. Smith (sub)

In: Veszpremi, Smith
Out: Griffen, Giansiracusa

[bornadog]

FB: 38. Morris, 23. Roughead, 33. Lower
HB: 44. Goodes, 31. Young, 39. Johanissen
C: 11. Macrae, 5. Boyd, 17. Cooney
HF: 15. Tutt, 19. Jones, 6. Dahlhaus
FF: 9. Stringer, 49. Cordy, 8. Veszpremi
R: 27. Minson, 21. Liberatore, 25. Stevens

Int: 42. Picken, 3. Wallis, 4. Cross, 14. Smith (sub)

In: Veszpremi, Smith
Out: Griffen, Giansiracusa

agree on this.

[Happy Days]

agree on this.

Softened your stance on Vez? (edit: this reads as snarky, I promise it's not)

[Maddog37]

Couldn't agree more. Height doesn't = KPF, it is the hunger to compete that dictates whether or not a KPF will be successful. Brad Johnson was a better KPF than Cordy ever will be. And Stringer at 191cms will be a terrific KPF because he has that instinctive hunger and desire to compete that a Cordy currently lacks (and in all likelihood will never capture).

Cordy is still two years away from where he needs to be. He will no doubt struggle with his weakness overhead in the contest for a while longer but when he learns to jump at the ball he will be a nightmare matchup.

Lots of focus on his negatives but his positives are tantalising.

[bornadog]

Softened your stance on Vez? (edit: this reads as snarky, I promise it's not)

I have always said I want to see him succeed like any player pulling on the red white and blue. Personally, I don't think he will make it, but happy to be proven wrong.

Two weeks of good performances in the VFL, so lets see if he is up to it.

[Greystache]

Cordy is still two years away from where he needs to be. He will no doubt struggle with his weakness overhead in the contest for a while longer but when he learns to jump at the ball he will be a nightmare matchup.

Lots of focus on his negatives but his positives are tantalising.

Not trying to be smart. I've heard lots of people talk about Cordy's unique gifts but haven't heard any explanation as to what they actually are? He's tall, he's ok at ground level but that's not much. I wonder what people think his unique attributes are that make him tantalizing above those of any generic tall kid coming out the the TAC cup.

[bornadog]

Not trying to be smart. I've heard lots of people talk about Cordy's unique gifts but haven't heard any explanation as to what they actually are? He's tall, he's ok at ground level but that's not much. I wonder what people think his unique attributes are that make him tantalizing above those of any generic tall kid coming out the the TAC cup.

I think you are being harsh on him. He has only played 17 games, lets give him a chance to mature as a footballer then decide if he is any good.

[Greystache]

I think you are being harsh on him. He has only played 17 games, lets give him a chance to mature as a footballer then decide if he is any good.

How was I being harsh? I asked what people see at his unique gifts. You didn't provide anything other than he hasn't played much.

[Maddog37]

Not trying to be smart. I've heard lots of people talk about Cordy's unique gifts but haven't heard any explanation as to what they actually are? He's tall, he's ok at ground level but that's not much. I wonder what people think his unique attributes are that make him tantalizing above those of any generic tall kid coming out the the TAC cup.


It is only my opinion and that internal signal that makes you think a player has "it". Even in country footy I have seen some clumsy big kids that could only be classified as triers become good senior footballers as they mature. They learn to time their leads, they learn to time their jumps and they learn to hold their marks. They naturally begin to use their big bodies to win contests. If they can run and jump too then they become someone that can impact the game all over the ground. Lastly if they have a bit of mongrel they can hurt opposition players physically.

All of these attributes many kids have in juniors and we take it for granted. When we see players without these attributes being consistently displayed we see them as duds. Enter Ayce Cordy and we think dud as he does not do the basic things as well as other players. I personally think he does all of the things you want. He just doesn't do them all together yet.

He has a good attitude and plays with passion. He also has very good skills. Lots to like and if his body holds up I expect a very good AFL career.

Just as an aside(and I do not want it) what do people think his trade value would be?

[bornadog]

How was I being harsh? I asked what people see at his unique gifts. You didn't provide anything other than he hasn't played much.

Maybe I am being harsh:D I just get the feeling from all your posts that you don't rate him and you don't feel he will be any good. Apologise if I got that wrong.

[Hotdog60]

One question on Cordy is his shoulders which he has had a lot of problems with in the past.
Does this restrict his ability for reaching up for the ball?

[Ghost Dog]

How was I being harsh? I asked what people see at his unique gifts. You didn't provide anything other than he hasn't played much.


As Ash Hansen says. His athleticism combined with his physical presence.
Saw it in the Brisbane game. He can take the game on. Sold a bit of candy. Crashed a pack to jag a kick back to Dickson. The thing that gives me hope are these little plays. Is'nt Kruezer a good model?

[Greystache]

Maybe I am being harsh:D I just get the feeling from all your posts that you don't rate him and you don't feel he will be any good. Apologise if I got that wrong.

I haven't seen anything in the 4 or 5 years I've seen him play that's makes me say wow this guy has talent. If Ayce becomes a good player (and he may well do), to me it proves if a club is prepared to put 6 or 7 years of full time training and coaching into a player then pretty much any tall skinny athlete out of the TAC cup could make it so long as they're prepared to put in. The only difference is Cordy was a father son so was given the opportunity others may not have been.

[boydogs]

I wonder what people think his unique attributes are that make him tantalizing above those of any generic tall kid coming out the the TAC cup.

Kouta-like ground level skills and athleticism from a 200cm player

[ReLoad]

Kouta-like ground level skills and athleticism from a 200cm player

The only similarity between Kouta and Ayce Cordy is that they both live in Australia.

At the minute Ayce simply isn't living up to his name; he is known around our circles as the four of spades.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Kouta-like ground level skills and athleticism from a 200cm player

Kouta like? Gee I really hope you're right there.

[Before I Die]

I haven't seen anything in the 4 or 5 years I've seen him play that's makes me say wow this guy has talent. If Ayce becomes a good player (and he may well do), to me it proves if a club is prepared to put 6 or 7 years of full time training and coaching into a player then pretty much any tall skinny athlete out of the TAC cup could make it so long as they're prepared to put in. The only difference is Cordy was a father son so was given the opportunity others may not have been.

Or possibly it would prove that you haven't been looking closely enough.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Or possibly it would prove that you haven't been looking closely enough.

Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

[Ghost Dog]

Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

Oh yes! It's is totally realistic for a kid to put on 20 kg or whatever in their first year, start kicking bags of goals, get named in the bests and maybe win us a premiership too? Never mind the operations to put bits of bone in his shoulders to stop them breaking. Very realistic.

Big guys take longer. Will Minson case in point. Put up your hands all posters who wanted him traded a few years ago?

If Ash Hansen, Shannon Grant, BMac , Emma Quayle, and others think it was worth the risk picking him, and persisting with Ayce, it's fine with me, because I don't watch him at training, and it's very hard to judge his performance when the inside 50s are so crap.
When insides have been ok, he's been good too ( Brisbane )

[jeemak]

Emma Quayle thought we did quite well, and labelled him unique:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-2008-afl-draft-how-your-club-fared-20091124-j84q.html

Doesn't mean he'll make it of course, though if we've had our hand forced by St Kilda to take him at pick 14 it probably means some people out there thought he wasn't a run of the mill tall prospect in 2008.

I find it a bit intriguing, the lack of patience with Cordy. He's put on 20-25kg's since the end of 2008, and missed his first two seasons with wrecked shoulders. Now he's playing in a developing side with no system and we're wondering why he's not as developed as we thought he might be. We acknowledge that most players take 50-70 games to really find their feet in this competition, and talls take longer, yet we're not prepared to be patient and let Cordy develop.

We've also got calls for Ed Barlow to be playing instead of him as a utility/second ruck, even though Barlow was as good as he was going to get, when he wasn't very good when he played with us anyway. Where does the line get drawn between playing players to be marginally more competitive as a team, but just as likely to lose and trying to develop a structure? It's like the world has gone a little bonkers, to be frank.

[bornadog]

The only similarity between Kouta and Ayce Cordy is that they both live in Australia.

At the minute Ayce simply isn't living up to his name; he is known around our circles as the four of spades.


Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

Well as I said previously, 17 games is too early for a big man. Yes he has been around the club 4 odd years but has also had some bad injuries.

[LostDoggy]

Oh yes! It's is totally realistic for a kid to put on 20 kg or whatever in their first year, start kicking bags of goals, get named in the bests and maybe win us a premiership too? Never mind the operations to put bits of bone in his shoulders to stop them breaking. Very realistic.

Big guys take longer. Will Minson case in point. Put up your hands all posters who wanted him traded a few years ago?

If Ash Hansen, Shannon Grant, BMac , Emma Quayle, and others think it was worth the risk picking him, and persisting with Ayce, it's fine with me, because I don't watch him at training, and it's very hard to judge his performance when the inside 50s are so crap.
When insides have been ok, he's been good too ( Brisbane )

Some very good points GD. I've been a Will fan since he came to the club but I actually thought he was treated harshly during the Eade era. He would be close to our most solid player and most consistent performer over the last 18 months. I do understand supporters impatience with Cordy but I'm prepared to wait another 22 games at least.


Well as I said previously, 17 games is too early for a big man. Yes he has been around the club 4 odd years but has also had some bad injuries.

17 games says it all, the guy is a giant, it will happen.

[kruder]

I have more faith in Tutt making it as an AFL player than Howard. He still has a long way to go but the renewed defensive intent coupled with his pace and attacking instincts give him some chance of making it.

I think Dalrymple has done some good things at the ND and rookie drafts since he took over from Clayton, but his first ND was an absolute disaster and has set the timing of our rebuild back by 12 months as a result.

I think all ND players selected last year will be in our next finals team which would be a fair effort indeed.

[Bulldog4life]

I haven't seen anything in the 4 or 5 years I've seen him play that's makes me say wow this guy has talent. If Ayce becomes a good player (and he may well do), to me it proves if a club is prepared to put 6 or 7 years of full time training and coaching into a player then pretty much any tall skinny athlete out of the TAC cup could make it so long as they're prepared to put in. The only difference is Cordy was a father son so was given the opportunity others may not have been.

I am sure Cordy would have been drafted if he didn't come to us via father/son. St.Kilda for one bidded for him.

[Ghost Dog]

Every time they harp on about Howard's kicking skills, I stop what I'm doing and watch him. Then he shanks it! Anyone else experience this?

[Cyberdoggie]

Every time they harp on about Howard's kicking skills, I stop what I'm doing and watch him. Then he shanks it! Anyone else experience this?

A lot of Howards problems are in his head.

Mentally he's a bit fragile, seems to cough it up and key moments all the time. Pressure kicks or on the end of a run. Just shows that when he gets worried or thinks about it too much he makes mistakes. May be a confidence thing to some extent but he's been playing this way since he was drafted.

[EasternWest]

Kouta-like ground level skills and athleticism from a 200cm player

Which is great. But I want my 200 cm guys to be able to compete in the air and take a mark.

Skills below his knees are a bonus, but shouldn't in any way be the gauge by which Ayce is measured.


Or possibly it would prove that you haven't been looking closely enough.

Well what have you seen in Ayce that would suggest Greystache hasn't been looking closely enough ?

[Mofra]

I find it a bit intriguing, the lack of patience with Cordy. He's put on 20-25kg's since the end of 2008, and missed his first two seasons with wrecked shoulders. Now he's playing in a developing side with no system and we're wondering why he's not as developed as we thought he might be. We acknowledge that most players take 50-70 games to really find their feet in this competition, and talls take longer, yet we're not prepared to be patient and let Cordy develop.
Bingo.

For so long we've had calls of "just stick with a promising young tall and develop them".
Now we're too impatient to develop them when we've got one who has shown he is an elite contested mark (Jones) and another who has overcome so many obstacles just to get on the paddock it's a minor miracle he's out there at all (Cordy).

The facts is, if we had anyone better than either of the two of them, they would play. Cordy has already shown he's ahead of Campbell for me as R2 and he compares similarly to other 197cm+ ruck/forwards at similar levels of experience.

I'd hate to have read the posts about a young Peter Foster, Lindsay Gilbee or Daniel Cross as they were establishing themselves, and why the hell would you recruit a 23 year old undersized KPP* that had only just made it to VFL level?


* Named Dale Morris

[The Underdog]

Dogs just tweeted Gia out 2 weeks with bruised scapula. Timing may be um, convenient.

[LostDoggy]

Should we bring microscopes? Telescopes? Infra red?

I mean it's not obviously there? Is it?
After all these years how often has he been named in the best?
How often has he kicked a bag of goals?

What are we supposed to be seeing?

Please tell me. I'd love to see it.

This article is from May 19 2012. Cordy has effectively had about a year doing proper AFL preparation and for a tall that's two parts of no time at all. Its a shame he is the best available we have as I'd love to see him do this year in the VFL to get his confidence and fundamentals back but all things considered I think he's on track for my tagline. Happy to re-evaluate after 75 games.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shouldering-a-heavy-burden-20120518-1yw64.html

I get it doesn't specifically answer your question but might put some context around it. As a junior (and I saw him play on multiple occassions) he was a good mark, agile with great groundwork. Give him time - everythings going to be Ayces :)

[The Pie Man]

Given Cordy & Jones (& Roughead) were all drafted together, it can be useful to compare.

Despite Jones having played more than 20 games more than Ayce due to injuries, it doesn't seem relevant to me...it's about what they're capable of doing..what tools/capabilities they have.

It seems Jones has all the tools - when he presents with repeat efforts like he did vs Richmond, the rewards are there. He looks capable of being a massive contributor if he can reach a consistent level of urgency at the contest. He's quick & can take contested marks. I'm prepared to show more patience here as there seems to be huge upside

From what I've seen to date, I can't say the same about Ayce. I just don't see where further development is going to come from based on what I've seen. Looks a possible no 1 ruck contender in a few years to me.

Just an opinion - one I think more than a few Dogs fans share. FWIW I thought he was ok last week.

[wimberga]

Thought that Stringer may have been a chance to jump back down to VFL this week but now after Gia's injury looks like we will be seeing a bit more of this guy.

For every negative there is a positive. Looking forward to him scaring some defenders s$*#less!

[LostDoggy]

Firstly, i love Stringer and i liked what i saw last week, He took grabs, chased hard, laid tackles everything we all know he can do.

I still don't agree with him playing last week as the sub. The one thing he needs its game time and match fitness. Although it's great seeing him line up in the Red White and Blue i would have preferred to see him play a full game in the VFL.

So what does he do this week? I'm not sure exactly how fit he is, can he run out 2 n a half 3 quarters at AFL level? If he can then i would love him to start and then be subbed.

Then the issue arises what if we get an early injury? Forcing Stringer to play a full game when he's body isn't up to it... Could cause problems.

If we are planning to use Stringer as the sub again then i just think it would be so much more beneficial to give him a full game in the VFL.

[lemmon]

I'm starting to agree we pump games into Ayce, good comparison is with Ty Vickery who is just starting to come good and plays the same role...difference is Vickery has played about 60 games to Ayces 20 odd. The other point to note is Vickery has Brendan Lade as a mentor who played the role before it came into vogue and has been one of the best at it for the least 10 years

[boydogs]

So what does he do this week? I'm not sure exactly how fit he is, can he run out 2 n a half 3 quarters at AFL level? If he can then i would love him to start and then be subbed.

Then the issue arises what if we get an early injury? Forcing Stringer to play a full game when he's body isn't up to it... Could cause problems.

Macrae played a full game last week but it was only 67% game time, less than 3 quarters on the field, despite not being the sub.

As long as we don't have too many kids in there all needing the rest, Stringer might be OK for 60% game time if someone gets injured.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Firstly, i love Stringer and i liked what i saw last week, He took grabs, chased hard, laid tackles everything we all know he can do.

I still don't agree with him playing last week as the sub. The one thing he needs its game time and match fitness. Although it's great seeing him line up in the Red White and Blue i would have preferred to see him play a full game in the VFL.

So what does he do this week? I'm not sure exactly how fit he is, can he run out 2 n a half 3 quarters at AFL level? If he can then i would love him to start and then be subbed.

Then the issue arises what if we get an early injury? Forcing Stringer to play a full game when he's body isn't up to it... Could cause problems.

If we are planning to use Stringer as the sub again then i just think it would be so much more beneficial to give him a full game in the VFL.

I would like to see Stringer start at FF and would think that he could be a good match up for either Rivers or Lonergan. Cordy start in a FP and as a back up ruckman to Minson.
Gia being out injured opens up other possibilities by including a Veszpremi with a rumour suggesting that Pearce could play forward. Williams and Talia will not play due to injury which reduces our flexibility both forward and back.

[bornadog]

Well what have you seen in Ayce that would suggest Greystache hasn't been looking closely enough ?

Maybe this

[QUOTE=bornadog;313956]bGCvPHfuJ7k

[bornadog]

Well what have you seen in Ayce that would suggest Greystache hasn't been looking closely enough ?

Maybe this

bGCvPHfuJ7k

[boydogs]

I would like to see Stringer start at FF and would think that he could be a good match up for either Rivers or Lonergan.

It amazes me how much we talk on here about matching up with the opposition, even in the forward line. Stringer isn't a good match up for anyone, he is a weapon the opposition need to find a matchup for!

[LostDoggy]

Macrae played a full game last week but it was only 67% game time, less than 3 quarters on the field, despite not being the sub.

As long as we don't have too many kids in there all needing the rest, Stringer might be OK for 60% game time if someone gets injured.

I just still don't get why we would take the risk. Stringer's likely, with nopressure and no guarentees, to be a potential insert here <match winning/animal/gun/champion..> but he just doesn't have the fitness base and he comes with some known medical risk. We aren't going to finish 3rd but maybe 3rd last. Let him learn his trade in the VFL and give him the occassional taste after he's built his fitness further in less stress inducing circumstances. Vesz, Grant and Roberts are all slowly starting to wave hands in the air and all present more intreguing oppotunities (to my mind) to chance at AFL level to see if they can make it. I think we should afford them the chance to prove if they want it.

[EasternWest]

Maybe this

bGCvPHfuJ7k

Firstly, you are not the person I addressed my question to.

Secondly, if you do choose to respond to my posts, please feel free to revisit the thread which I last replied to you for clarification.

I want to hear what BID thinks in response to the question, not you.

[G-Mo77]

Dogs just tweeted Gia out 2 weeks with bruised scapula. Timing may be um, convenient.

Just wondering who the guys on the members wing will jeer now. Both Gia and Higgins out, Jonesy might be the whipping boy now.

I reckon Vez is a lock to come in to the team now.

[bornadog]

Firstly, you are not the person I addressed my question to.

I want to hear what BID thinks in response to the question, not you.

Is this necessary to post like this?



Secondly, if you do choose to respond to my posts, please feel free to revisit the thread which I last replied to you for clarification. .

what thread is that?

[KT31]

Is this necessary to post like this?




what thread is that?

Agree with BAD, this is uncalled for.

[EasternWest]

Is this necessary to post like this?

what thread is that?Look it up.


Agree with BAD, this is uncalled for.

How do you know it's uncalled for? I asked a question of another poster, (Before I Die), that I genuinely want to know the answer to.

I didn't ask bornadog. He's seen fit to not respond to my posts in the past, (calling me a "smartarse"). That's fine, he's entitled to his opinion. I've previously made it clear to him that if he is uninterested in any discourse with me, then there's no need to reply to my posts. As my question was not directed to him, but he saw fit to reply, it seemed pertinent to remind him that I'm not really interested in what he has to say.

It's not anything personal, I don't know bornadog, we just don't see eye to eye on this forum (which again is fine), so I choose not tI respond to him and would prefer he didn't to me.

[lemmon]

This is a forum, not a Q and A. Everyone move on

[EasternWest]

This is a forum, not a Q and A. Everyone move on

Happy to.

But I did ask a question pertinent to the discussion.

What do you think lemmon? Where do you stand on Cordy?

I have concerns. I've seen enough to know he can play, but I'm worried that his size is not an asset. I'm willing to persist with him - I think we have to.

[lemmon]

My view has definitely changed and sit firmly in the have to get games into him camp. He really is the only guy on out list who can play that role so he is lucky in that sense. If the only reason he is in the 22 is to protect Jones and guys like Roberts and ensuring we don't blow up Minson than at this stage its a sacrifice we have to make. In saying all that he's a baby. Vickery is only coming good after 60 games, Cordy has played a third of that

[EasternWest]

My view has definitely changed and sit firmly in the have to get games into him camp. He really is the only guy on out list who can play that role so he is lucky in that sense. If the only reason he is in the 22 is to protect Jones and guys like Roberts and ensuring we don't blow up Minson than at this stage its a sacrifice we have to make. In saying all that he's a baby. Vickery is only coming good after 60 games, Cordy has played a third of that

Yeah agree. Your last point is a good one about games played. I guess it feels like he's played more because he's been around for a while now. Patience, bloody patience.

[boydogs]

I just still don't get why we would take the risk. Stringer's likely, with nopressure and no guarentees, to be a potential insert here <match winning/animal/gun/champion..> but he just doesn't have the fitness base and he comes with some known medical risk. We aren't going to finish 3rd but maybe 3rd last. Let him learn his trade in the VFL and give him the occassional taste after he's built his fitness further in less stress inducing circumstances. Vesz, Grant and Roberts are all slowly starting to wave hands in the air and all present more intreguing oppotunities (to my mind) to chance at AFL level to see if they can make it. I think we should afford them the chance to prove if they want it.

What is the medical risk you are referring to?

To me, the default setting for team selection is to select your best side. Is Stringer a part of that? I say yes.

The deviation from that is to give your kids a run in favour of your veterans to develop them faster, when you are out of contention for the finals. Again, a tick for Stringer.

Unless he is going to be the sub every week, I don't see how playing at AFL level is going to hinder his development. It's just a matter of whether 60% from Stringer is better than 80% from someone else. With the number of forward line injuries we have at the moment, it's a no brainer.

Macca has already said he clearly belongs at the level and just needs to work on his fitness.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Official team:

In: Vez, Smith, Austin
Out: Gia, Griffen, Cordy

Cordy omitted and Gia injured apparently

[SlimPickens]

Official team:

In: Vez, Smith, Austin
Out: Gia, Griffen, Cordy

Cordy omitted and Gia injured apparently

Interesting- Austin to play forward and chop out in the ruck?

[lemmon]

Interesting- Austin to play forward and chop out in the ruck?

J-Pod I reckon, played on him well in the past. Stinger and Jones as tall forwards

[whythelongface]

Based on the ins and outs for this week I would assume Stringer will play FF.

Who will take 2nd ruck duties?

Will Austin play on Pods?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Interesting- Austin to play forward and chop out in the ruck?

its interesting. 2 forwards out for a forward and a defender. Wonder what the MC have in mind

[Hotdog60]

I think Jones will do the relief ruck duties

[DOG GOD]

Even with all those injuries, poor VEZ can still only get on the bench...sacrilege I say :)

[Remi Moses]

Don't like Jones as the second ruck.

[Greystache]

Good selections. I had Talia as an in but with him being injured I'm happy with Austin coming in ahead of Markovic.

I'm expecting Stringer to play FF and Jones to help out for 5 mins a quater in the ruck. Much better balanced this week.

[The Pie Man]

Roughead 2nd ruck?

[LostDoggy]

Last week I'm sure I saw Stringer twice stand on the outside of contests to get, I assume, any spillages. He did not participate in the pack flying for the ball. That suggests to me that he is /we are easing him into AFL level footy. I expect more of - ground level footy, chasing and tackling, providing movement and acting more as a half forward rather than a FF. If he can do that in bursts he will be of value.

Macrae, on the other hand, looks to have the instinct and balance to be the distributor that we so badly need. He just seems to be able to make space for himself. I watched Swan today and saw on one occasion how he stayed outside the pack but had the intuition, skill and body balance to know where to go and the ability to get there at the right time and right speed so as to create space with the exit.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Even with all those injuries, poor VEZ can still only get on the bench...sacrilege I say :)

Doesn't mean he won't start on the ground.

[Rocco Jones]

I know this sounds a contradiction but I am both happy to see Ayce out and also unsure what we will do with our 2nd ruck role.

I get the patience thing but Ayce is nowhere near it IMO. I am with Greystache on him. Yeah sure he does the ground level stuff pretty well for a tall man but what is the point when he is awful at the tall man stuff? Ayce is 202cm and Morris is 190cm but I am sure of who I would back in a marking contest.

I am obviously obsessed with the 2nd ruck role. I actually see it as a role suited to journeymen/more mature players and am not a fan of developing players being used as 2nd rucks. It's a mutated role. The Big Q suits it perfectly.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Roughead 2nd ruck?

Could happen but a slight risk given the two talls in attack for the Cats plus Taylor drifting down together with Hawkins and Pods.
Austin could replace Roughy should Minson need a spell. This would be a better option than using Jones in the ruck.

[JohnGentStand]

Liam Jones can count himself lucky to get a game this week. Happy with the ins, though I would have dropped JJ or Stevens instead of Cordy. Blicavs of the cats can seriously run and expose Will around the ground so I hope the big guys gets his knees in some nice spots early!

[LostDoggy]

Like the changes.

Cordy actually looked okay in the ruck last week but was nowhere near it in the fwd line. Neither was Gia. Those two outs help the forward line immensely.


Interesting that Jones is the only player left of our first picked forward line, 4 rounds in with Murph, Dickson, Higgins, Gia and Cordy all out.

[G-Mo77]

I think Jones will do the relief ruck duties

Look I hope that's not the case. He should be concentrating on learning his craft in the forward half and not about relief ruck duties. With the Austin in I reckon Roughead is going to do a bit of work in the ruck but then see above it's the same situation. I'd rather him concentrate on becoming a better defender.

[Rocco Jones]

Blicavs of the cats can seriously run and expose Will around the ground so I hope the big guys gets his knees in some nice spots early!

Bilcavs sure can run but I am not sure he has shown he can transfer it onto the footy ground yet.

[JohnGentStand]

I hear you Rocco....I just hope Will can dictate where the running is done.

[Ghost Dog]

Well Brendan must read woof.net . Picken in the forward line. Cordy to find some form. Austin and Vezper in.

[LostDoggy]

Look I hope that's not the case. He should be concentrating on learning his craft in the forward half and not about relief ruck duties. With the Austin in I reckon Roughead is going to do a bit of work in the ruck but then see above it's the same situation. I'd rather him concentrate on becoming a better defender.

Completely agree with this, Roughead just has the better skillset to ruck than Jones, the downside of playing either ruck is the same.

Just have to hope Cordy gets some confidence and can come back and the play the role. No other options this year.

[Eastdog]

Jake Stringer named at CHF in the team.

[josie]

I trust the coaching staff to make right decision with Stringer in starting line up rather than VFL. I'm going to match and looking forward to see glimpses of our future with Macrae & Stringer.

Seems like coaching staff are trying to give reward for repeated good performance in VFL. Crossing fingers Vespremi will grab his chance and kick a few.

Great to hear Austin has been elevated from rookie list and getting a game too. When he has played in AFL for us I thought his held his own and has a lot more mobility than Markovic.

Hoping Clay starts on ground rather than as sub again as his the type we need against Cats and his disposal seems to have improved heaps.

I think they've got team selection right this week, and my last wish as they let tough as nails Picken play in forward or midfield as he has looked lost and turned over the ball a bit in backline IMO. Then again maybe he is just taking time to settle in. Anyone else have thoughts on where Picken should play?

Thanks too to all the posters for insightful comments regarding Ayce. I think he has good attitude and I think I’ve been too quick to pass negative judgement based on 17 games. I’ll be more patient.

Unlike my avatar would intimate....Go Dogs !!

[bornadog]

Very disappointed Cordy has been dropped this week. 2nd ruck role will be interesting as Jones is the only one tall enough unless Austin has a good leap at 193cm.

[jeemak]

Josie, nice post.

Probably don't think Ayce should be playing at Willi but it is what it is and I'm really hoping he can clunk a few and kick some goals.

My thoughts on Picken are that he should be played as a tagger only. Having him play in the forward half of the ground is the lesser of two evils, as I don't see him as a viable back pocket. He's too limited with decision making and disposal. The guy always gives 100% though.

Glad Vesz is getting a run, let's hope he works his butt off and not waste his opportunity with a lacklustre effort.

Looking forward to seeing Stringer and MacRae up close this week as well.

[Bulldog4life]

Official team:

In: Vez, Smith, Austin
Out: Gia, Griffen, Cordy

Cordy omitted and Gia injured apparently

I know there will be numerous people happy that Cordy is dropped but I'm not one of them. Bad move in my opinion.

[Cyberdoggie]

Very disappointed Cordy has been dropped this week. 2nd ruck role will be interesting as Jones is the only one tall enough unless Austin has a good leap at 193cm.


Roughead is the only one capable but i guess there will be 3-4 Geelong talls operating at times.
Hawkins, Pods, West/Blicavs, Taylor.

Going to have to be Jones i guess

[Greystache]

Very disappointed Cordy has been dropped this week. 2nd ruck role will be interesting as Jones is the only one tall enough unless Austin has a good leap at 193cm.

Quinten Lynch is 192cm and does more rucking than the average 2nd ruck. Leigh Brown the prototype was only 194cm. It's about intensity to compete for 5 mins a quater as much as anything. I actually think someone like Markovic could be a reasonable option for the role.

[comrade]

Quinten Lynch is 192cm and does more rucking than the average 2nd ruck. Leigh Brown the prototype was only 194cm. It's about intensity to compete for 5 mins a quater as much as anything. I actually think someone like Markovic could be a reasonable option for the role.

Not sure Marko offers us enough around the ground but I like your thinking.

Maybe Redpath could be developed for this role. As a forward I don't think he'll make it, but as a Q/Leigh Brown type which we sorely lack, perhaps he is a chance.

[Greystache]

Not sure Marko offers us enough around the ground but I like your thinking.

Maybe Redpath could be developed for this role. As a forward I don't think he'll make it, but as a Q/Leigh Brown type which we sorely lack, perhaps he is a chance.

He gets a bit of the ball at VFL but it never seems to have translated to AFL level.

Funny you say that, I nearly suggested Redpath as well. He is the right size for the role and shouldn't be a liability while not rucking.

[jeemak]

Quinten Lynch is 192cm and does more rucking than the average 2nd ruck. Leigh Brown the prototype was only 194cm. It's about intensity to compete for 5 mins a quater as much as anything. I actually think someone like Markovic could be a reasonable option for the role.

Both Lynch and Brown are mountains, however.

Jones can have all the intensity in the world, but if he comes up against a player like Lynch or Brown in a ruck contest it isn't going to count for a lot if they're as intense as he is. They're too big in a body sense, and they're a bit smarter in the role.

This isn't an endorsement for Cordy playing however, though at least with his height he has some advantage (doesn't mean he's learned to use it, yet).

[ReLoad]

I feel sorry for Vez, our forward line is going to have tumbleweeds and abandond shanty towns in it.

Coming into a team playing as poorly as we are is never going to make it easy on coming in and kicking a few goals.

Still, lets hope he shows some oomph.

[G-Mo77]

I feel sorry for Vez, our forward line is going to have tumbleweeds and abandond shanty towns in it.

Coming into a team playing as poorly as we are is never going to make it easy on coming in and kicking a few goals.

Still, lets hope he shows some oomph.

Why feel sorry for him? He's got a chance to play at AFL level again and has a chance to prove his worth. If opportunity up forward is starved then he's got to do the little things to hold his place. Chasing, pressure and tackling something he is not very good at.

It's not just about kicking goals.

[Rocco Jones]

I feel sorry for Vez, our forward line is going to have tumbleweeds and abandond shanty towns in it.

Coming into a team playing as poorly as we are is never going to make it easy on coming in and kicking a few goals.

Still, lets hope he shows some oomph.

In a way it actually makes it easier for him to impress (low expectations). Tutt got 8 touches and didn't kick a goal but his 6 tackles and defensive pressure meant that the vast majority of posters here (whatever our expertise!) were happy with his performance.

[boydogs]

In a way it actually makes it easier for him to impress (low expectations). Tutt got 8 touches and didn't kick a goal but his 6 tackles and defensive pressure meant that the vast majority of posters here (whatever our expertise!) were happy with his performance.

I wanted him dropped because we need to replace our injured forwards with forwards instead of more mids, or we'll keep breaking down at half forward again. With Griffen now out however he should go into the middle.