Where to from here for the season?

[bornadog]

We smashed Brisbane in the first game thinking we had improved dramatically, but that has proven we were only beating a mediocre team. Since then we have been competitive in only a few quarters.

So, what now for the rest of the season. Do we start bringing in more young players and just giving then game time? Do we try something different as GD pointed out in his thread on moving players to different positions? Do we say goodbye to some of the older players (Gia for example).

If you were the coach, what would you do, given the current injuries and situation.

[boydogs]

I don't think you throw in the towel after 4 weeks, but we do need to work out who can take us forward and who can't. Players like Grant, Howard, Tutt, Veszpremi, Pearce, Markovic, Austin, Cordy and Campbell need to be tested when the opportunity presents.

Younger players will get more out of being brought into the side in a controlled manner where we can be competitive than playing every draft pick from the last 3 years at once and getting smashed

[Dry Rot]

I don't think you throw in the towel after 4 weeks, but we do need to work out who can take us forward and who can't. Players like Grant, Howard, Tutt, Veszpremi, Pearce, Markovic, Austin, Cordy and Campbell need to be tested when the opportunity presents.



Agree with this, but would add IMO it's time to test more experienced guys like Grant and Vez.

[Bulldog Revolution]

We have to do both, compete like crazy, win games where we can, but keep adding kids to the mix, and finding out who is part of the future.

I want to see us playing much better and wanted us to be 2-2 and have won one of our last two games, but it was never going to be a smooth climb back up the ladder.

With a young full back, and young developing key forwards I never thought we could easily or quickly turn it around.

[Ghost Dog]

Our younger players seem to have a bit more composure. Then let them play. I'd upgrade Austin, move Roughead to the forward line for parts of games ( swingman ) , take Cordy back to Williamstown - add Stringer to the line up. Drop Dahlhaus to find form, replace with Macrae. Looks much better already.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

As others have said we need to test certain players so that we can make definitive calls on them at the end of the year. This includes:

- Veszpremi (capable or not?)
- Grant (capable or not?)
- Tutt (position?/capable or not?)
- Howard (capable or not?)
- Wood (injury prone/position?/capable or not?)
- Williams (injury prone)

We also need to develop the following with senior games:

- Talia (Should be fast tracked)
- Roberts (Should be groomed as a FF)
- Pearce
- Smith
- JJ
- Macrae
- Stringer
- Hrovat

[Remi Moses]

Our younger players seem to have a bit more composure. Then let them play. I'd upgrade Austin, move Roughead to the forward line for parts of games ( swingman ) , take Cordy back to Williamstown - add Stringer to the line up. Drop Dahlhaus to find form, replace with Macrae. Looks much better already.

Disagree entirely.
Why on earth would you groom Roughy to play on the gorillas, then use him as a "swing man"

[Bulldog Joe]

I believe it is a time for perserverance.

We do need to keep working on the process that the coach has in place even if, as supporters, we sometimes struggle to understand what is happening.

This probably means perservering with Jones/Cordy. There should be coaching behind the scenes that will have them improving in their own understanding and execution of their roles.

We also need to test out others on the list. This includes giving Grant and Vez at least 3 consecutive games at some point with the opportunity to prove their worth before they are discarded.

The younger players will also need resting and this will provide opportunities for others.

The injury list looks horrific and it is our older/experienced players that have missed games. This puts more pressure on the younger brigade.

Where we are looking now, we are going to struggle. The next winnable game looks like Gold Coast.

I recall 2005 when we played Adelaide in Adelaide and scored 5.5 (35) in a 12 goal smashing, yet won 6 of our next 7. Things can and will turn around, but we have a way to go with so many players on less than 50 games experience.

[PedroArvy]

I am worried that if you throw in too many kids you will start getting smashed and enter into a vicious Melbourne like spiral where you just can't get better no matter how many draft picks you get.

[G-Mo77]

We smashed Brisbane in the first game thinking we had improved dramatically, but that has proven we were only beating a mediocre team. Since then we have been competitive in only a few quarters.

I think that's it right there. We smashed Brisbane and most people, including myself started thinking that we won't be so bad. FWIW I picked us to finish 2nd bottom with only 4 - 5 wins. We are at the bottom of a rebuild, time to strap on your armour and bring a box of tissues because it's going to be a long painful process.

What we do now? Who knows? I honestly think the plan would have been to continue to evaluate the list by playing almost everybody. I think we'll almost get a game into the entire list (Minus Rookies) this year. Strengthening the basics seems to be the philosophy as well. I doubt they'll steer far from that.

[KT31]

I think that's it right there. We smashed Brisbane and most people, including myself started thinking that we won't be so bad. FWIW I picked us to finish 2nd bottom with only 4 - 5 wins. We are at the bottom of a rebuild, time to strap on your armour and bring a box of tissues because it's going to be a long painful process.

What we do now? Who knows? I honestly think the plan would have been to continue to evaluate the list by playing almost everybody. I think we'll almost get a game into the entire list (Minus Rookies) this year. Strengthening the basics seems to be the philosophy as well. I doubt they'll steer far from that.

I don't disagree with this, I do however have an issue with how easy we seem to throw in the towel and the lack of leadership and endeavor we have shown in the last couple of weeks.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Well i think the round 1 win has made the last 2 losses all the more frustrating when in reality we all thought prior to the season we would still be pretty bad.

The way i see it is:

2011 - The start of the decline. Finals are no more and the wins drop off. This was hard to accept after years of success
2012 - Hitting rock bottom and doing a complete cleanout - Putting the peices in place for a rebuild of the future. Players retire/are delisted/are drafted. This is a long year of pain with the rare glimpse of hope.
2013 - Development begins. The rebuild is well underway. The peices are in place, we have a vision and we start to build of rock bottom that was last year. Can and should only be better than last year but the reality is we will still be pretty bad. BUT the 10 goal drubbings should be less frequent.
2014 - Start to gain some consistency and momentum to move up the ladder. We should be competitive
2015 - Pushing for finals
2016-17 - Expectation is to make finals

So we are still in the dark stages of a rebuild. But the worst should be behind us. Time will tell

[soupman]

Disagree entirely.
Why on earth would you groom Roughy to play on the gorillas, then use him as a "swing man"

This.

Can we stop calling for Roughead to be moved away from his new position within which he is showing his best and most consistent form to date?

Roughead's name is written in permanent texta at full back for the rest of the season, we aren't going to suddenly start throwing him forward.

[always right]

This.

Can we stop calling for Roughead to be moved away from his new position within which he is showing his best and most consistent form to date?

Roughead's name is written in permanent texta at full back for the rest of the season, we aren't going to suddenly start throwing him forward.

This.

If this is rebuild or development year...then leave blokes in the positions you want to develop them for. Roughead stays in defence and we persevere with a Cordy, Jones and Stringer combination up forward.

[EasternWest]

This.



This.


Can we make our points without this needless trend?

Sorry, maybe I'm in cranky old man mode.

Roughead plays fullback. He's a natural. Way more mobile than I thought he'd be too.

[whythelongface]

After our first game I thought that things maybe weren't going to be as bad as first thought, even after the game against Freo there were encouraging signs, however the last two games (against average teams) have shown that the rebuild will be a long and painful process.

There are some serious deficiencies within our team. One glaring one is our turnovers. We may initially win a clearance but then we turnover the ball far too easily, which means the opposition players are left without their direct opponents creating vast opportunities to spread the ball. This happens time and time again and is very frustrating.

Yesterday was really frustrating to watch and I feel for those that went to the game. I want to have faith in the coaching regime but performances like yesterday's are hard to take.

[LostDoggy]

Well i think the round 1 win has made the last 2 losses all the more frustrating when in reality we all thought prior to the season we would still be pretty bad.

The way i see it is:

2011 - The start of the decline. Finals are no more and the wins drop off. This was hard to accept after years of success
2012 - Hitting rock bottom and doing a complete cleanout - Putting the peices in place for a rebuild of the future. Players retire/are delisted/are drafted. This is a long year of pain with the rare glimpse of hope.
2013 - The rebuild is well underway. The peices are in place, we have a vision and we start to build of rock bottom that was last year. Can and should only be better than last year but the reality is we will still be pretty bad. BUT the 10 goal drubbings should be less frequent.
2014 - Start to gain some consistency and momentum to move up the ladder. We should be competitive
2015 - Pushing for finals
2016-17 - Expectation is to make finals

So we are still in the dark stages of a rebuild. But the worst should be behind us. Time will tell

I agree wholeheartedly, except I think our decline started late in 2010. We limped to that prelim and never really stood a chance.

If I was coach, I'd put up 2-3 spots each week to test young/fringe players, but otherwise persevere with the setup for at least the rest of the year. If it's not working, change it up for 2014, but there seems to be little to be gained in changing the game plan now.

[LostDoggy]

Can we make our points without this needless trend?

Sorry, maybe I'm in cranky old man mode.

Roughead plays fullback. He's a natural. Way more mobile than I thought he'd be too.

This. :D

[bornadog]

I think the MC needs to really work out where are the best spots for several players.

The MC has done really well with reinventing Roughead. Maybe we need to re look at other positions as well.

Starting with the backline

The backline needs to be settled and to be a cohesive back six. I don't see Picken being part of that and I don't see Tom Young as KPP, but do see him as the third tall with Morris switching on some talls and some smalls. For example, who takes Johnson next Saturday night?

So who plays CHB? Tom Williams constantly injured but if fit, is my first choice. In the meantime, Talia needs to thrown into the deep end and start his education. Marko is not a long term prospect and only comes in if Roughead goes down.

The Forward Line

A major problem for us? Do we ask Gia to retire and become an assistant or does he still play on? I have long defended him in the team because of his footy smarts and kicks lots of goals, but he is really struggling now.

Grant and Vez need to come in and start being tested or its goodbye at the end of the year. Cordy/Jones need to be persisted with, but can we have Cordy, Jones, Stringer and Grant all over 190 cms in the forward line at the same time. I think we can, Grant has pace and plays like a small forward. He has to be groomed to take over from Bob Murphy, he will never ever put on weight due to his build, so lets work on his assets and exploit them. Languishing at Willi won't work for him.

I would also look at Picken playing in the forward line rather than the backline if he isnot required to tag. Pearce may also be some one to try in the forward pocket.

The recruits

They need to be introduced into the team throughout the year so we can get some games into them.

Midfield

Lower looks slow to me, but can be used on certain players without pace. When the pace is on, we need Picken in there. Libba, Wallis, Smith, Dahl are the future midfielders and we have to just keep playing these guys. We do lack pace in the midfield and with Cooney and Griffo, we should be able to cover that side.

Game Day

The one thing I mentioned last year was that we replaced a very experienced coach with a rookie and gave that rookie no help. We should have put into place an experienced senior assistant to be the right hand man and one that can advise on game day strategy and planning. I don't believe we have the right assistants and we can all see Macca is struggling with this side of the role.

[Sedat]

I recall 2005 when we played Adelaide in Adelaide and scored 5.5 (35) in a 12 goal smashing, yet won 6 of our next 7. Things can and will turn around, but we have a way to go with so many players on less than 50 games experience.
The similarities between then and now are interesting. Just like today, back then we had a large group of U-23 players who had proven virtually nothing at senior level and who were either going to the scrapheap or would flourish under the new coach. We also had a radically altered game plan that was understandably taking time for the players to adjust to. And like 2012, we started 2005 well but started to flag after the halfway mark. If late 2005 and season 2006 showed us one thing, improvement can come around very quickly, and that internal expectations shouldn't be shied away from. Setting the bar very low in 2013 is a safe strategy for our coach, but I'm not sure if it is the right message to send to the entire playing group, let alone the supporters and members.

[The Underdog]

Can we make our points without this needless trend?

Sorry, maybe I'm in cranky old man mode.

Roughead plays fullback. He's a natural. Way more mobile than I thought he'd be too.

Scarily Dustin Fletcheresque look about him. Been a highlight of the season.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I am worried that if you throw in too many kids you will start getting smashed and enter into a vicious Melbourne like spiral where you just can't get better no matter how many draft picks you get.

I recognise that feeling, it has played a large part in my life and is better dismissed. It is Anxiety and is fear of an imaginary scenario. My hard earned wisdom is have a look at the anxiety that we will repeat Melbourne's mistakes but see it for the shadow it is, fear of what could be but probably won't be.
It's way more likely we won't repeat Melbourne's idiosyncratic errors. Have you ever chatted to MCC volunteers and the old school tie brigade? They are a different lot to Footscray and its footy club.

[F'scary]

Do we ask Gia to retire and become an assistant
...

Let's put it this way, I think we need to ask him to retire and GET him an assistant.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't think it's our players. I'm going to compare coaches, but with respect - Brendan is a great motivator, developer of young men, and a training professional. The players love him, and he's very popular at the club. He lacks experience on game day; that's ok. It's natural. We need to bring the experience into the box.

I firmly believe a more experienced coach could have jagged us a better margin on the weekend. Like Rocket.
What's clear is the players are not listening - the presser showed a Captain who was at a loss to explain why the plan was not followed. Either the message is not getting through, or it's the way it's being presented.

Get more game day expert advice, and a 'bad cop' a la Bomber Thompson.

[bornadog]

I don't think it's our players. I'm going to compare coaches, but with respect - Brendan is a great motivator, developer of young men, and a training professional. The players love him, and he's very popular at the club. He lacks experience on game day; that's ok. It's natural. We need to bring the experience into the box.

I firmly believe a more experienced coach could have jagged us a better margin on the weekend. Like Rocket.
What's clear is the players are not listening - the presser showed a Captain who was at a loss to explain why the plan was not followed. Either the message is not getting through, or it's the way it's being presented.

Get more game day expert advice, and a 'bad cop' a la Bomber Thompson.

Do you think this is also a lack of leadership on the ground?

[AndrewP6]

I don't think it's our players. I'm going to compare coaches, but with respect - Brendan is a great motivator, developer of young men, and a training professional. The players love him, and he's very popular at the club. He lacks experience on game day; that's ok. It's natural. We need to bring the experience into the box.

I firmly believe a more experienced coach could have jagged us a better margin on the weekend. Like Rocket.
What's clear is the players are not listening - the presser showed a Captain who was at a loss to explain why the plan was not followed. Either the message is not getting through, or it's the way it's being presented.

Get more game day expert advice, and a 'bad cop' a la Bomber Thompson.

And that's the strongest indication yet that McCartney's the wrong man for the job.

[Greystache]

And that's the strongest indication yet that McCartney's the wrong man for the job.

Rodney Eade used to blame the players for not following instructions after every big loss (he blamed their poor skill execution for every small loss), yet you constantly state he should have been retained. Players don't follow instructions and that's proof McCartney shouldn't be coach.

Which is it?

[whythelongface]

And that's the strongest indication yet that McCartney's the wrong man for the job.


I don't necessarily think he is the wrong man for the job I just think that we need someone in the calibre of Thompson and Eade who are both working with rookie coaches to provide them with guidance. If we had someone of their ilk and experience they could provide advice and tactics on game day.

Guess that is where the difference is in being at a richer club as opposed to the WBFC.

[Greystache]

I don't necessarily think he is the wrong man for the job I just think that we need someone in the calibre of Thompson and Eade who are both working with rookie coaches to provide them with guidance. If we had someone of their ilk and experience they could provide advice and tactics on game day.

Guess that is where the difference is in being at a richer club as opposed to the WBFC.

I've posted simiarly in another thread. Collingwood has gone backwards under Buckley and Eade, and it's arguable that Essendon has done any better under Hird and Thompson.

[Bulldog Joe]

I've posted simiarly in another thread. Collingwood has gone backwards under Buckley and Eade, and it's arguable that Essendon has done any better under Hird and Thompson.

Not making a comment on the point of some experience to aid Brendan, but clearly Essendon are better now than when Knights was coaching.

[Bulldog4life]

I think it is too early to judge Macca yet. He has only coached 26 games so far. He is not even half way through his tenure. We have been hit hard by injuries. Let's be patient and see how the year pans out.

[Greystache]

Not making a comment on the point of some experience to aid Brendan, but clearly Essendon are better now than when Knights was coaching.

Their results don't prove it. They've got a core group coming into the right age, but they have done nothing in the previous 2 years under this new coaching set up. They beat several top 4 teams under Knights but never found consistency either.

[Mantis]

For the rest of 2013 I would like to see:

1/ Games into kids - Talia, Roberts, Pearce, Stringer, Macrae, etc all need to play a minimum of 8 games each.

2/ Improvement in our 3-4 year players - As the season unfolds we need to see improvement from the likes of Jones, Cordy, Roughy, Stevens, Wallis, JJ, Libba, etc..

3/ Improvement in game style - Winning the contested possession count is nice, but giving the ball straight back and then applying little defensive pressure isn't - This needs to improve.

I would also like to see the coaching staff can get more out of the likes of Grant, Vez, Tutt & Howard.

Our coaches get paid to coach & develop - it's time for that to occur.

[whythelongface]

I've posted simiarly in another thread. Collingwood has gone backwards under Buckley and Eade, and it's arguable that Essendon has done any better under Hird and Thompson.

Whether it has been a success or failure with Collingwood or Essendon is hard to gauge at this stage. Buckley is in his 2nd year of (Head) coaching and the benchmark was set reasonably high by Malthouse by winning a GF and making a GF, therefore it is a tough call to suggest they are going backwards.

From our perspective I think it would have been invaluable to provide some assistance for McCartney. We can all see he appears to struggle with game day tactics and whilst this may develop over time it would of been handy to have someone assisting who had previous Head Coach experience.

[EasternWest]

Scarily Dustin Fletcheresque look about him. Been a highlight of the season.

He reads the play so well. When we were playing him ruck/forward, I would have had this as one of my biggest complaints about him, but his timing in the backline is very good.

A pleasant surprise for me.

[Ozza]

I don't think it's our players. I'm going to compare coaches, but with respect - Brendan is a great motivator, developer of young men, and a training professional. The players love him, and he's very popular at the club. He lacks experience on game day; that's ok. It's natural. We need to bring the experience into the box.

I firmly believe a more experienced coach could have jagged us a better margin on the weekend. Like Rocket.
What's clear is the players are not listening - the presser showed a Captain who was at a loss to explain why the plan was not followed. Either the message is not getting through, or it's the way it's being presented.

Get more game day expert advice, and a 'bad cop' a la Bomber Thompson.

I can't agree on that point - that the players aren't 'listening'.

I would argue that it is very very common for young teams, that haven't been playing as a group for a long time, to not be able to execute a game plan consistently or for sustained periods.

It will take a fair bit of time for our players to be able to physically and mentally - put into place all that is asked of them of their coach, week after week. Young players get lost out there from time to time in games. How often does a young player play 2 or 3 good quarters and go completely missing for one or two. Or just for a young player to go missing entirely.

Tom Liberatore has had 3 good games, and one where he barely troubled the stats men. That happens to young blokes, and over time they learn how to come up week after week and produce a more consistent level. At the moment we have so many players in our team on a weekly basis who are up and down. And like it or not - it also takes its toll on the ability of the more senior players consistency too.

As for the comments about there not being enough onfield leadership - of course there isn't. But thats not the fault of the most senior players - its just a simple fact that we aren't in a position to have a whole side of leaders taking responsibility for our structures and set ups. How much can Boyd, Cross, Minson, Griffen etc do?

If you saw Collingwood, live, in 2010 - one of the things that stuck out, was that when the opposition had a slow play in the Collingwood forward line - the pies players were absolutely ferocious about getting into the right positions defensively, across the whole ground. That doesn't just happen in a pre-season, or over a few rounds - it takes 18 blokes on the field extremely well drilled and experienced - concentrating and knowing where to be, and getting on top of it as a group. And it only takes one or two blokes to get it wrong, for good sides to find that weakness.

Its been said before - that its a game where you only have to be 'off' a couple of percent to get smashed by the good sides. I think it will take a bit longer, and more games into the younger brigade, before some of the mistakes/losses of concentration/lapses get ironed out further - before we will be very competitive - but I don't think its light years away.

[Scorlibo]

We need a forward line!

If you were to make a call on who in our forward line will definitely be there in 2 years time there are only 2 players to come up - Dahlhaus and Higgins (who is rarely on the park).

Jones is a long way off and not a natural footballer.
Cordy doesn't show enough.
Gia will retire at the end of the year one would think.
Murph will be gone in the next few years.
Williams only plays half of each season due to injury.
Dickson seriously struggles when our half-forwards struggle.

Can we please play Grant and play him at full-forward?
Get Stringer on a serious fitness program.
Veszpremi has to be given ample game time for the rest of the season.

[Ozza]

For the rest of 2013 I would like to see:

1/ Games into kids - Talia, Roberts, Pearce, Stringer, Macrae, etc all need to play a minimum of 8 games each.

2/ Improvement in our 3-4 year players - As the season unfolds we need to see improvement from the likes of Jones, Cordy, Roughy, Stevens, Wallis, JJ, Libba, etc..

3/ Improvement in game style - Winning the contested possession count is nice, but giving the ball straight back and then applying little defensive pressure isn't - This needs to improve.

I would also like to see the coaching staff can get more out of the likes of Grant, Vez, Tutt & Howard.

Our coaches get paid to coach & develop - it's time for that to occur.

I think those are all reasonable/achievable expectations.

[Greystache]

For the rest of 2013 I would like to see:

1/ Games into kids - Talia, Roberts, Pearce, Stringer, Macrae, etc all need to play a minimum of 8 games each.

2/ Improvement in our 3-4 year players - As the season unfolds we need to see improvement from the likes of Jones, Cordy, Roughy, Stevens, Wallis, JJ, Libba, etc..

3/ Improvement in game style - Winning the contested possession count is nice, but giving the ball straight back and then applying little defensive pressure isn't - This needs to improve.

I would also like to see the coaching staff can get more out of the likes of Grant, Vez, Tutt & Howard.

Our coaches get paid to coach & develop - it's time for that to occur.

Agree entirely. The rest of our season should be measured around those bench marks.

[Ghost Dog]

And that's the strongest indication yet that McCartney's the wrong man for the job.

I'm not saying that. He's trying new things, exploring what players can offer. We have new, untested players coming into the side owing to injuries. He's carefully trying to balance development needs V a balanced side. I like him, and respect him.I like where we are headed, but why not get there quicker? How can it hurt having a game day strategist like Rocket or Bomber in the box? Surely we have some more cash now we're without Lake?


Do you think this is also a lack of leadership on the ground?

Sure, but that's natural. They had our backline in a vice all day and it kills the confidence.
I don't think we were as bad as the scoreboard suggests.
But in the end, players are paid, and paid well, to do as they are told. If the coach says kick long, well what's your problem? Kick it long.

[Ghost Dog]

For the rest of 2013 I would like to see:

1/ Games into kids - Talia, Roberts, Pearce, Stringer, Macrae, etc all need to play a minimum of 8 games each.

2/ Improvement in our 3-4 year players - As the season unfolds we need to see improvement from the likes of Jones, Cordy, Roughy, Stevens, Wallis, JJ, Libba, etc..

3/ Improvement in game style - Winning the contested possession count is nice, but giving the ball straight back and then applying little defensive pressure isn't - This needs to improve.

I would also like to see the coaching staff can get more out of the likes of Grant, Vez, Tutt & Howard.

Our coaches get paid to coach & develop - it's time for that to occur.

I can't remember what his title is exactly, but are you of the view we need an extra man - a la Rocket for Collingwood, in the box?

[LostDoggy]

Whether it has been a success or failure with Collingwood or Essendon is hard to gauge at this stage. Buckley is in his 2nd year of (Head) coaching and the benchmark was set reasonably high by Malthouse by winning a GF and making a GF, therefore it is a tough call to suggest they are going backwards.

From our perspective I think it would have been invaluable to provide some assistance for McCartney. We can all see he appears to struggle with game day tactics and whilst this may develop over time it would of been handy to have someone assisting who had previous Head Coach experience.

Make a play for Roos? I know its becoming abit of a chestnut to call out "get Roos" but I'd love to see him and Macca in the box come game day. The master teacher and the master strategist. I still don't think we'd win many games with the current cattle :eek:

[GVGjr]

For the rest of 2013 I would like to see:

1/ Games into kids - Talia, Roberts, Pearce, Stringer, Macrae, etc all need to play a minimum of 8 games each.

2/ Improvement in our 3-4 year players - As the season unfolds we need to see improvement from the likes of Jones, Cordy, Roughy, Stevens, Wallis, JJ, Libba, etc..

3/ Improvement in game style - Winning the contested possession count is nice, but giving the ball straight back and then applying little defensive pressure isn't - This needs to improve.

I would also like to see the coaching staff can get more out of the likes of Grant, Vez, Tutt & Howard.

Our coaches get paid to coach & develop - it's time for that to occur.

Great plan. I'd might have a slightly lesser requirement on the 8 games for the youngsters but I think this would be a great development plan for the playing list

[AndrewP6]

I'm not saying that. He's trying new things, exploring what players can offer. We have new, untested players coming into the side owing to injuries. He's carefully trying to balance development needs V a balanced side. I like him, and respect him.I like where we are headed, but why not get there quicker? How can it hurt having a game day strategist like Rocket or Bomber in the box? Surely we have some more cash now we're without Lake?
.

I don't disagree, but can't see it happening. He was appointed as senior coach, I can't see them turning around and saying "Well,we think you need some help in there". Also think that would lead to a barrage of public/media criticism, along the lines that 'he can't do the job he was hired to do'. I think, from that point of view, they have to leave it as is.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

For the rest of 2013 I would like to see:

1/ Games into kids - Talia, Roberts, Pearce, Stringer, Macrae, etc all need to play a minimum of 8 games each.

2/ Improvement in our 3-4 year players - As the season unfolds we need to see improvement from the likes of Jones, Cordy, Roughy, Stevens, Wallis, JJ, Libba, etc..

3/ Improvement in game style - Winning the contested possession count is nice, but giving the ball straight back and then applying little defensive pressure isn't - This needs to improve.

I would also like to see the coaching staff can get more out of the likes of Grant, Vez, Tutt & Howard.

Our coaches get paid to coach & develop - it's time for that to occur.
The three points you make are valid however I am still to be convinced that Grant Vez Tutt and Howard are good enough to cut it at the elite level. At the end of the day it comes down to talent and we simply do not have the necessary depth at the moment. We currently have no more than 10 players that you could say are established League players. We do not have a recognized key forward and just one key backman in Roughead, who is still learning the craft.
Sunday proved a point with two players in Cooney and Morris both returning from serious injuries being stand outs as our two best players.
We live in hope but we currently have a very under manned list.

[MrMahatma]

The last 2 weeks have certainly reset my expectations to what they were at the end of last season. I'd thought we'd come further than we had after rd 1, which makes the past fortnight all the more frustrating.

For the rest of the season:

- games into the kids
- improvement in individuals
- improvement in the fwd line as a whole
- examples of a working system where we transition the ball quickly and effectively from stoppage to spread and ultimately goal.

[LostDoggy]

Our younger players seem to have a bit more composure. Then let them play. I'd upgrade Austin, move Roughead to the forward line for parts of games ( swingman ) , take Cordy back to Williamstown - add Stringer to the line up. Drop Dahlhaus to find form, replace with Macrae. Looks much better already.

That's absurd, I can't agree with any of that.

[Remi Moses]

I am worried that if you throw in too many kids you will start getting smashed and enter into a vicious Melbourne like spiral where you just can't get better no matter how many draft picks you get.

On the flip side of that you have Richmond.
Started trading in solid types under Hardwick, who used the draft for the first few years.
I thought at the start of the season we'd possibly win 5 games and I haven't deviated.
Brisbane under Mad Vossy

[jeemak]

I didn't see the game, though I don't think we should be deviating too far from the season's original plan because we've put in two ordinary performances, one good performance and one passable performance.

We've all known it was going to be a tough year, and we've all known we would be prone to playing games in which we weren't competitive just like we have over the last fortnight.

Mantis' post on the second page resonates with me, though I'd be pretty surprised if a plan reasonably similar to that one wasn't employed from the start of the season, and is being stuck to. Sure some allowances or adjustments will be made on the back of some players being injured at inopportune times, though at the end of the day professional organisations in our situation don't knee jerk themselves from one bad situation to another (or at least they shouldn't, anyway), and plans made leading into a season aren't turfed because club management can't hold its nerve.

This year is going to be a very big test for the culture of our football club. When we've had bad times in the past we've reacted significantly, and we've not netted a premiership. I can't think of any reason why we'd follow that path again.

[Mantis]

I can't remember what his title is exactly, but are you of the view we need an extra man - a la Rocket for Collingwood, in the box?

No... We already added about 3 or 4 extra staff to our coaching group this year.


Great plan. I'd might have a slightly lesser requirement on the 8 games for the youngsters but I think this would be a great development plan for the playing list

8 is just a number I picked.. It could be 6, it could be 10... These kids need AFL exposure for extended periods. Happy for them to play 3 or 4 in a row and then be rested totally from footy for 2 weeks... The alliance with Willi is already shot so we might as well abuse it.


The three points you make are valid however I am still to be convinced that Grant Vez Tutt and Howard are good enough to cut it at the elite level.

As am I, but they do have the necessary skills to enable them to be AFL players... We just need them to be developed to to do so.

Vez needs reward for a very good performance on the weekend, disappointing that Grant under performed, but surely with a beefed up coaching group we can get him playing the footy we require from him.

[KT31]

I don't disagree, but can't see it happening. He was appointed as senior coach, I can't see them turning around and saying "Well,we think you need some help in there". Also think that would lead to a barrage of public/media criticism, along the lines that 'he can't do the job he was hired to do'. I think, from that point of view, they have to leave it as is.

I thought it was a great idea, not sure on the media barrage as Malthouse has Eade and the media painted it as a positive.
In the end I imagine it will come to a stage where BMac will do all that is asked to keep his job.

[LostDoggy]

I can't agree on that point - that the players aren't 'listening'.

I would argue that it is very very common for young teams, that haven't been playing as a group for a long time, to not be able to execute a game plan consistently or for sustained periods.

It will take a fair bit of time for our players to be able to physically and mentally - put into place all that is asked of them of their coach, week after week. Young players get lost out there from time to time in games. How often does a young player play 2 or 3 good quarters and go completely missing for one or two. Or just for a young player to go missing entirely.

Tom Liberatore has had 3 good games, and one where he barely troubled the stats men. That happens to young blokes, and over time they learn how to come up week after week and produce a more consistent level. At the moment we have so many players in our team on a weekly basis who are up and down. And like it or not - it also takes its toll on the ability of the more senior players consistency too.

As for the comments about there not being enough onfield leadership - of course there isn't. But thats not the fault of the most senior players - its just a simple fact that we aren't in a position to have a whole side of leaders taking responsibility for our structures and set ups. How much can Boyd, Cross, Minson, Griffen etc do?

If you saw Collingwood, live, in 2010 - one of the things that stuck out, was that when the opposition had a slow play in the Collingwood forward line - the pies players were absolutely ferocious about getting into the right positions defensively, across the whole ground. That doesn't just happen in a pre-season, or over a few rounds - it takes 18 blokes on the field extremely well drilled and experienced - concentrating and knowing where to be, and getting on top of it as a group. And it only takes one or two blokes to get it wrong, for good sides to find that weakness.

Its been said before - that its a game where you only have to be 'off' a couple of percent to get smashed by the good sides. I think it will take a bit longer, and more games into the younger brigade, before some of the mistakes/losses of concentration/lapses get ironed out further - before we will be very competitive - but I don't think its light years away.

Excellent stuff, Ozza. My thoughts exactly.

I think we have been cruelled by key injuries, and one or two players being well down or not up to it each game (eg Campbell) which has allowed oppositions to easily create a free man, spread and run.

I also think that opposition rotations and on field moves have been head spinning for some of our younger players who are out thought or go away from the game plan when under pressure. Once a couple do it, the whole plan seems to fall away. As an example, the more last week's game went on, the more we piled into packs without having strategically placed players outside and behind. You just knew that if the ball came out, Adelaide would get it and open us up.

The issue isn't that there are young players in the side; it is that we have no middle group - no hardened, experienced middle group - which means our performance more heavily relies on the ups and downs of the younger brigade.

Let's make judgements when almost all players have 50+ games under their belt and there is a solid core of middle aged players who have played together for years.

[KT31]

[QUOTE=metal;317154]Excellent stuff, Ozza. My thoughts exactly.

I think we have been cruelled by key injuries, and one or two players being well down or not up to it each game (eg Campbell) which has allowed oppositions to easily create a free man, spread and run.
QUOTE]

It's not that I disagree with you, but IMO you are being generous.
Our list has well and truly more than one or two players who are never going to be up to it.