WOOF Player Awards - Round 5, 2013 vs Geelong

[GVGjr]

Welcome to the WOOF Player Awards for season 2013, Round 5 Western Bulldogs vs Geelong.

There are two awards that you can vote on once the game is completed.

Voting closes each Tuesday at 8.00pm.

The first award is for the Joe Marmo Medal for the best players on the ground.

There are 4 votes allocated and it's a 4 for the best and of course 3, 2 and 1.

and

The second award is for the Ron James Medal for the best 2 pups on the ground.

2 Votes allocated - 2 being for the best pup and 1 for the runner-up
Remember the cut off age for a pup is 22 as at the 1st of January, 2013.

Pups available for selection –

Ayce Cordy, Jordan Roughead, Liam Jones, Christian Howard, Koby Stevens, Jason Tutt, Tom Campbell, Luke Dahlhaus, Thomas Liberatore, Tom Young, Mitch Wallis, Jason Johannisen, Daniel Pearce, Fletcher Roberts, Clay Smith, Michael Talia, Jake Stringer, Nathan Hrovat, Jackson Macrae, Joshua Prudden and Lachlan Hunter.

Rookie's – Alex Greenwood, Lin Jong
* Mark Austin, Brett Goodes, Jack Redpath (if elevated not eligible for pup selection due to pup cut-off age)

Need to know more - The history of the WOOF Player Awards (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=8966)

[Rance Fan]

4 Jones
3 Minson
2 Cross
1 Young

2 Jones
1 Young

[jazzadogs]

4 Jones
3 Johannisen
2 Cooney
1 Libba

2 Jones
1 Johannisen

[Hotdog60]

4 Jones
3 Johannisen
2 Minson
1 Young

2 Jones
1 Johannisen

[westbulldog]

4. Johannisen
3. Jones
2. Cooney
1.Liberatore

2.Johannisen
1. Jones

[westdog54]

4. Jones
3. Johannisen
2. Liberatore
1. Young.

Minson and Cross get HMs

[LostDoggy]

4 Jones
3 Minson
2 Cooney
1 Young

2 Jones
1 Young

[GVGjr]

4. Jones
3. Johannisen
2. Liberatore
1. Young.

Minson and Cross get HMs

I thought you just sneaked in four James votes.

[LostDoggy]

4. Jones
3. Johannisen
2. Cooney
1. Young

1. Jones
2. Young

[F'scary]

4. Cooney
3. Minson
2. Cross
1. Jones

1. Jones
2. Young

[Rance Fan]

4. Jones
3. Johannisen
2. Cooney
1. Young

1. Jones
2. Young

Should have

2 - Jones
1 - JJ

[ratsmac]

4. Jones
3. Minson
2. Cross
1. JJ

2. Jones
1. JJ

Apologies to Tutt, Smith and Young

[always right]

4. Jones...not high on stats but huge impact on match
3. Minson..dominated the centre battles
2. Boyd...plenty of posessions and didn't waste any of them. His handballing tonight was outstanding
1. Lower...great job on Selwood tonight

Apologies to a number of players including JJ, Libba, Toung, Cross and Cooney. Very few passengers tonight.

[boydogs]

4. Cross
3. Boyd
2. Jones
1. Young

2. Jones
1. Young

[Remi Moses]

4. Jones ( we get better delivery in and he'll be more a threat)
3. Cross ( heartbeat of the club)
2. Johanssien ( he was excellent)
1. Boyd ( thought he was good tonight)

2. Jones
1 Jj

[Remi Moses]

4. Jones...not high on stats but huge impact on match
3. Minson..dominated the centre battles
2. Boyd...plenty of posessions and didn't waste any of them. His handballing tonight was outstanding
1. Lower...great job on Selwood tonight

Apologies to a number of players including JJ, Libba, Toung, Cross and Cooney. Very few passengers tonight.

Wouldn't be shocked if Scott has a whinge about the tactics on Selwood.

[westdog54]

Wouldn't be shocked if Scott has a whinge about the tactics on Selwood.

I think he's more worried about the way the team went about it. Didn't seem all that impressed when I/Ved by the commentary team.

[bornadog]

4. Boyd -
3. JJ
2. Jones
1. Lower

2. JJ
1. Jones

[GVGjr]

4. Boyd -
3. JJ
2. Jones
1. Lower

2. JJ
1. Libba

BAD, Jones should be in the James ahead of Liberatore.

[Greystache]

4. Jones- He is our forward target
3. Libba
2. JJ
1. Young

2. Jones
1. Libba

I continue to scratch my head at Minson being in the same people's votes every single week. 10 touches and 0 marks. That's 3 marks in 4 games, I really wonder what a bad game must look like.

[bornadog]

BAD, Jones should be in the James ahead of Liberatore.

sorry my mistake.

[bornadog]

4. Jones- He is our forward target
3. Libba
2. JJ
1. Young

2. Jones
1. Libba

I continue to scratch my head at Minson being in the same people's votes every single week. 10 touches and 0 marks. That's 3 marks in 4 games, I really wonder what a bad game must look like.

Marks are not the only thing a player is judged on.

[Greystache]

Marks are not the only thing a player is judged on.

No, but at least giving us something outside of the centre bounce would be a massively welcome addition. Even a decent amount of touches would be useful, but alas again no. Honestly some posters would have Mark Blake as a multiple B&F winner, despite him being incapable of ever impacting a contest.

[lemmon]

4. Jones
3. Minno (dominated the first half to the extent the Cats had to play both ruckman on him around the ground, airmchair ride for the mids)
2. Libba
1. Young

2. Jones
1. Libba

[Sedat]

4. Libba
3. Jones
2. JJ
1. Lower

2. Libba
1. Jones

[always right]

No, but at least giving us something outside of the centre bounce would be a massively welcome addition. Even a decent amount of touches would be useful, but alas again no. Honestly some posters would have Mark Blake as a multiple B&F winner, despite him being incapable of ever impacting a contest.

Apparently you don't rate ruck work. I had Geelong supporters around me commenting how influential Minson was. Even Ling mentioned how Minson had become a huge problem for Geelong and was monstering their ruck men. Sure he doesn't do a lot around the ground but his centre ruck work was exceptional.

[Greystache]

Apparently you don't rate ruck work. I had Geelong supporters around me commenting how influential Minson was. Even Ling mentioned how Minson had become a huge problem for Geelong and was monstering their ruck men. Sure he doesn't do a lot around the ground but his centre ruck work was exceptional.

Funny I had Geelong supporters around me saying the bulldogs would be just as effective by drafting a 215cm basketballer they know playing in their local league and saving on the salary cap, he has no idea how to play but could win a tap out just as well.

[Scraggers]

4. Jones
3. Minson
2. JJ
1. Cooney

[Scorlibo]

4 - Liberatore (9 clearances, made them count too)
3 - Young (stoic down back, looks like the new Shaggy!)
2 - Boyd (welcome back skip)
1 - Jones (his best game for the club, although there's still heaps to work on for him)

2 - Libba
1 - Young

[boydogs]

Funny I had Geelong supporters around me saying the bulldogs would be just as effective by drafting a 215cm basketballer they know playing in their local league and saving on the salary cap, he has no idea how to play but could win a tap out just as well.

Didn't we try that with Eddie Prato? It's not that simple, and you don't necessarily want your ruckman winning the ball around the ground - there are better users you want it in the hands of. Marking is an issue, he was better at this in round 1, hopefully he can get back to that.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

4. Jones - Would love him to start from here, ball movement was good to him also
3. Minson - So glad the Hawks didn't pick him up
2. Lower - Racking up the scalps now
1. Libba - Shame that his Father Tony was not a Rabbit!

2. Jones
1. Libba

[G-Mo77]

4. Libba
3. Jones
2. Lower
1. Minson

I really wanted to get JJ in there. Boyd also unlucky.

2. Libba
1. Jones

[westdog54]

I thought you just sneaked in four James votes.

Well bugger me, I did too.

It makes for good reading, doesn't it? The pups were superb tonight.

[Hotdog60]

4. Jones - Would love him to start from here, ball movement was good to him also
3. Minson - So glad the Hawks didn't pick him up
2. Lower - Racking up the scalps now
1. Libba - Shame that his Father Tony was not a Rabbit!

2. Jones
1. Libba

I thought he was going to the Gold Coast but they settled on the dud from Collingwood.

[always right]

Funny I had Geelong supporters around me saying the bulldogs would be just as effective by drafting a 215cm basketballer they know playing in their local league and saving on the salary cap, he has no idea how to play but could win a tap out just as well.

So you don't rate Ling's observation? Are you really comparing him to Mark Blake simply because he used to win taps? The quality of Minson's tap work is outstanding........it's not simply a matter of just winning the tap.

[bornadog]

So you don't rate Ling's observation? Are you really comparing him to Mark Blake simply because he used to win taps? The quality of Minson's tap work is outstanding........it's not simply a matter of just winning the tap.

Also his clearance work is very good, something learnt from Huddo.

[LostDoggy]

4. Minson
3. Jones
2. Libba
1. Young

We did not get murdered in centre clearances and stoppages. For that we have Minson to thank as I think his tap outs have become more educated, whether to stop free run from the opposition with close in taps, or clear the area in an attempt to give our blokes a run at it. At one stage he had 2 of their blokes going up against him at throw ins, which should have enabled us a free player.

I think he is at least giving us a chance of winning the contested footy in the middle, which is more than Peter Street ever did! It's how he is executing the task of ruck work that pleases me most.

I accept that he doesn't do enough around the ground marking, but I also know how we have been blown away in the past by unintelligent ruck work and/or lack of communication with the mids.

[Bulldog4life]

4. Jones
3. Young
2. JJ
1. Minno

2. Jones
1. Young

[GVGjr]

4. Jones
3. Young
2. JJ
1. Minno

2. Jones
1. JJ

B4L, You will need to give Young a vote in the James award not JJ

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Marmo

4. Jones- the most confident I've seen him, would've been nice for him to have snapped the last one and finished with 5. His marking was first class, and he looks a lot fitter. He did tire but left absolutely nothing in the tank.
3. Young - I must admit I wasn't very sure what he would add to the team, and thought he would only get a few games, but he looks to be a very willing and consistent contributor down back.
2. Minson - some may not rate his work -but he gave us first use of the ball by a clear margin, had twice the taps to advantage than the opposition, and his clearance work was first rate for a big man.
1. Libba- 9 clearances, and his workrate around the ground was good too.

Apols to JJ, Cross, Boyd & Smith.

James
2. Jones
1. Young

[bulldogsman]

4. Jones
3. Young
2. Libba
1. JJ

1. Jones
2. Young

[LostDoggy]

4. Libba
3. Jones
2. JJ
1. Young

2. libba
1. jones

great to see all the pups having good games

[Greystache]

So you don't rate Ling's observation? Are you really comparing him to Mark Blake simply because he used to win taps? The quality of Minson's tap work is outstanding........it's not simply a matter of just winning the tap.

Mark Blake won hitouts and nothing else.

For such a young team with so many skinny bodies to not offer us anything at all around the ground is not good enough. 3 marks in 4 games from our only experienced tall and not even providing a contest at times in marking duels is really letting down the inexperienced players that need a help out. We'll see when the B&F comes out by I doubt the match committee would have him in our top 10.

[Go_Dogs]

Mark Blake won hitouts and nothing else.

For such a young team with so many skinny bodies to not offer us anything at all around the ground is not good enough. 3 marks in 4 games from our only experienced tall and not even providing a contest at times in marking duels is really letting down the inexperienced players that need a help out. We'll see when the B&F comes out by I doubt the match committee would have him in our top 10.

They didn't last year, (which I found a little odd at the time) so you're probably right.

No doubt Minson needs to do more around the ground, he was very good against Brisbane with 4 contested marks but hasn't done much since. I think he's about on par with most rucks as far as disposals goes, and is in the top end for contested possessions and clearances. His hit out work has been solid so far this year too. If he can add more marking and goals he'll be better player, but I think on balance he's been pretty good so far this year.

That being said, you're probably right in that we should be demanding a little more from him as one of our senior players.

[Ghost Dog]

They didn't last year, (which I found a little odd at the time) so you're probably right.

No doubt Minson needs to do more around the ground, he was very good against Brisbane with 4 contested marks but hasn't done much since. I think he's about on par with most rucks as far as disposals goes, and is in the top end for contested possessions and clearances. His hit out work has been solid so far this year too. If he can add more marking and goals he'll be better player, but I think on balance he's been pretty good so far this year.

That being said, you're probably right in that we should be demanding a little more from him as one of our senior players.

Still gifts them silly frees at times. But his bullocking work around packs is enourmous. Don't get stats for that.

[always right]

Mark Blake won hitouts and nothing else.

Err...that was my point.

[LostDoggy]

4. Libba
3. Jones
2. Young
1. Minson. Another massive effort, he has never had clean hands but he influences a lot of contests. Completely dominated the rucks.

Dahl unlucky, he was a terrier.

2. Libba
1. Jones

[soupman]

Marmo

4. Jones- the most confident I've seen him, would've been nice for him to have snapped the last one and finished with 5. His marking was first class, and he looks a lot fitter. He did tire but left absolutely nothing in the tank.
3. Young - I must admit I wasn't very sure what he would add to the team, and thought he would only get a few games, but he looks to be a very willing and consistent contributor down back.
2. Minson - some may not rate his work -but he gave us first use of the ball by a clear margin, had twice the taps to advantage than the opposition, and his clearance work was first rate for a big man.
1. Libba- 9 clearances, and his workrate around the ground was good too.

Apols to JJ, Cross, Boyd & Smith.

James
2. Jones
1. Young

Same for me please. Is Young our most composed player excluding Murphy?

[SlimPickens]

4.Jones
3.Libba
2.Young
1. JJ

2. Jones
1. Libba

[westdog54]

Same for me please. Is Young our most composed player excluding Murphy?

Wallis is up there for me.

[Ozza]

4. Libba - clearance/contested star
3. Jones - increased work rate this week, and kicking through the footy.
2. Young - so composed....we should get Collingwood to train up some more players for us.
1. Johannisen - great run from half back.

HM's to Cross, Picken, Lower and Boyd.

2. Libba
1. Jones.

Great to see so many pups....Stringer and Smith also - amongst the better players.

[choconmientay]

Jones
Libba
Young
JJ

Jones
Libba

[Bulldog Joe]

Mark Blake won hitouts and nothing else.

For such a young team with so many skinny bodies to not offer us anything at all around the ground is not good enough. 3 marks in 4 games from our only experienced tall and not even providing a contest at times in marking duels is really letting down the inexperienced players that need a help out. We'll see when the B&F comes out by I doubt the match committee would have him in our top 10.

You obviously do not rate ruckwork. If we played an extra midfielder, instead of a ruckman, he would probably get more possessions than Will. I strongly doubt it would make for a better team.

Will actually had 16 hitouts to advantage to go with his 10 disposals. That is the equivalent of 26 disposals. Add 5 clearances and 4 inside 50's and Will has indeed been very influential. I reckon Tommy Liberatore and Adam Cooney rate his work much more than Greystache does.

[Bulldog Joe]

4 Minson
3 Young
2 JJ
1 Jones

[Greystache]

You obviously do not rate ruckwork. If we played an extra midfielder, instead of a ruckman, he would probably get more possessions than Will. I strongly doubt it would make for a better team.

Will actually had 16 hitouts to advantage to go with his 10 disposals. That is the equivalent of 26 disposals. Add 5 clearances and 4 inside 50's and Will has indeed been very influential. I reckon Tommy Liberatore and Adam Cooney rate his work much more than Greystache does.

It's probably a mix of me not rating purely tap work as an indication of a ruckman's performance and some overating it. As I said previously Will is the only mature key position player at the club yet he's only managed 3 marks in the past 4 games, isn't having an influence in pack marking situations, isn't getting the ball around the ground, and hasn't kicked a goal this season. It's not that he's been poor it's more that we need much more from one of or few senior players, and also me questioning how the same couple of posters just put him in our best 4 players virtually every single week.

I don't think for a second the match committee would rate Minson's season at the same level as a few of our posters.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's probably a mix of me not rating purely tap work as an indication of a ruckman's performance and some overating it. As I said previously Will is the only mature key position player at the club yet he's only managed 3 marks in the past 4 games, isn't having an influence in pack marking situations, isn't getting the ball around the ground, and hasn't kicked a goal this season. It's not that he's been poor it's more that we need much more from one of or few senior players, and also me questioning how the same couple of posters just put him in our best 4 players virtually every single week.

I don't think for a second the match committee would rate Minson's season at the same level as a few of our posters.

I do agree that marking is the down fall in his game and it always has been. Incidentally he is no worse in that regard than Hudson was with us.

That doesn't mean is not having an influence in pack marking situations as he has always been pretty good at bringing the ball to ground. His work in the stoppage area is much more than just getting a hand on the ball as evidenced by his clearance numbers. He also contributes strongly with his bulk in close.

It is actually more difficult for a ruckman to accumulate possessions in a struggling side. He is not there to be a runner and our delivery is such that he doesn't get much as an outlet player even when he presents a target. There was more than 1 occasion on Saturday where he offered an option for the player coming out of defence, only to see the ball kicked to the advantage of his opponent.

I know Will has flaws and he does not compare to some of the rucks we have had in the past, but he is filling his role more than adequately.

The B&F voting last year basically ignored him and they may well do again. If that is the case this year it is a problem for those awarding votes.

[LostDoggy]

4. Jones
3. Cross
2. Johannisen
1. Young

2. Jones
1. Johannisen

[LostDoggy]

4. Adam Cooney - what a last quarter!
3. Liam Jones - super marks and mostly great kicking
2. Tom Young - wonderful poise all night
1. Jason Johannisen - excellent speed, great tackles and usually long kicks out of defence

2. Liam Jones
1. Tom Young

[LostDoggy]

It's probably a mix of me not rating purely tap work as an indication of a ruckman's performance and some overating it. As I said previously Will is the only mature key position player at the club yet he's only managed 3 marks in the past 4 games, isn't having an influence in pack marking situations, isn't getting the ball around the ground, and hasn't kicked a goal this season. It's not that he's been poor it's more that we need much more from one of or few senior players, and also me questioning how the same couple of posters just put him in our best 4 players virtually every single week.

I don't think for a second the match committee would rate Minson's season at the same level as a few of our posters.

Are you not starting to wonder why it is you get next to no support for your views on Minson whilst a large number of Woofers continue to rate his efforts highly?

After five games this year, he has been beaten by Maric and absolutely trounced all other opponents. He absolutely monstered the Geelong blokes yesterday and gave our smalls first use of the ball against an outstanding midfield yet you mock those who recognise his performance. Perhaps it's you who has it wrong.

You can select any player in the competition and you will find short-comings in their game. Will doesn't take marks around the ground but for all those ruckmen who do, I would back Will against them in every other aspect of the game

[The Bulldogs Bite]

4.Jones
3.Libba
2.Young
1. JJ

2. Jones
1. Libba

[Greystache]

Are you not starting to wonder why it is you get next to no support for your views on Minson whilst a large number of Woofers continue to rate his efforts highly?

After five games this year, he has been beaten by Maric and absolutely trounced all other opponents. He absolutely monstered the Geelong blokes yesterday and gave our smalls first use of the ball against an outstanding midfield yet you mock those who recognise his performance. Perhaps it's you who has it wrong.

You can select any player in the competition and you will find short-comings in their game. Will doesn't take marks around the ground but for all those ruckmen who do, I would back Will against them in every other aspect of the game

Well obviously if you disagree with me I must be wrong. We all know it couldn't possibly be any other way, thanks for setting the record straight for us all. No doubt if the match committee sees it the way I do they'll be wrong too.

Those same posters were adamant he beat Maric too BTW.

[SlimPickens]

Are you not starting to wonder why it is you get next to no support for your views on Minson whilst a large number of Woofers continue to rate his efforts highly?


To be fair there are many woofers who didnt have Minson in their votes. Will should have beaten up West and Blicavs, and he did. Don't think however there is anything wrong with wanting more from him. I wasnt at the game so can't comment on his work rate around the ground which Grey clearly is, but surely there is nothing wrong with wanting more from Minson as a follower not just a tap ruckman.

His first game of the year against Brisbane was a benchmark and I don't think he has reached those heights again so fair.

[bornadog]

Are you not starting to wonder why it is you get next to no support for your views on Minson whilst a large number of Woofers continue to rate his efforts highly?

After five games this year, he has been beaten by Maric and absolutely trounced all other opponents. He absolutely monstered the Geelong blokes yesterday and gave our smalls first use of the ball against an outstanding midfield yet you mock those who recognise his performance. Perhaps it's you who has it wrong.

You can select any player in the competition and you will find short-comings in their game. Will doesn't take marks around the ground but for all those ruckmen who do, I would back Will against them in every other aspect of the game

Leads the AFL in hitouts, and compared to the top 10 ruckman, leads in stoppages, Contested possessions, clearances, second in tackles, average disposals are in the top 4. Yes he has only had 8 marks.

[bornadog]

To be fair there are many woofers who didnt have Minson in their votes. Will should have beaten up West and Blicavs, and he did. Don't think however there is anything wrong with wanting more from him. I wasn at the game so can't comment on his work rate around the ground which Grey clearly is, but surely there is nothing wrong with wantin more from Minson as a follower not just a tap ruckman.

His first game of the year against Brisbane was a benchmark and I don't think he has reached those height again so fair.

You are not getting the point, he is not only a tap ruckman. See stats above.

[chef]

4 Jones
3 Young
2 Cooney
1 Libba

[Ozza]

I think there is certainly some middle ground on the Minson debate.

I think we all recognise that we have one of the better ruckman in the competition at stoppages. At the moment - there is a lack of quality ruckmen in the competition and Minnow is certainly accumulating some huge hit out stats and giving our midfield a chance to clear the ball.

The fact that he pretty much rucks all day - is a heavy workload and this may be impacting his ability to get around the ground and get some marks. In the past he has been able to get forward and kick the occasional goal. This season he is yet to have a shot at goal.

Will has been solid so far this year. But I would be betting that the coaches would be looking at 8 marks in 5 games and suggesting to Will that its certainly an area of improvement. Especially seeing as he hasn't had a contested mark in a month. We need him to be a target, particularly when coming out of defence.

He wasn't in the best handful on Saturday night.

[Bulldog4life]

B4L, You will need to give Young a vote in the James award not JJ

Done

[Go_Dogs]

I think there is certainly some middle ground on the Minson debate.

I think we all recognise that we have one of the better ruckman in the competition at stoppages. At the moment - there is a lack of quality ruckmen in the competition and Minnow is certainly accumulating some huge hit out stats and giving our midfield a chance to clear the ball.

The fact that he pretty much rucks all day - is a heavy workload and this may be impacting his ability to get around the ground and get some marks. In the past he has been able to get forward and kick the occasional goal. This season he is yet to have a shot at goal.

Will has been solid so far this year. But I would be betting that the coaches would be looking at 8 marks in 5 games and suggesting to Will that its certainly an area of improvement. Especially seeing as he hasn't had a contested mark in a month. We need him to be a target, particularly when coming out of defence.

He wasn't in the best handful on Saturday night.

I think that's a pretty balanced assessment.

The knocks on him are fair enough, and the really really good rucks can all stick a few big marks and usually impact the scoreboard a little bit too. Will teases to be able to do those things, just without any consistency which is perhaps why there can be a tendency to want more from him. He's become a good ruck, but if he improves those areas he can be one of the very best. There's still time too.

[Remi Moses]

Got his hands on it a few times.
Agree his ruck work has been good this season, but I agree he has to take a few more marks around the ground.

[SlimPickens]

You are not getting the point, he is not only a tap ruckman. See stats above.

Didn't say that, said we should expect more not that he is only a tap ruckman.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Criticism is harsh for Minson. Whilst it is true that marking is his weakness, he does pretty well in several other crucial areas such as hitouts, stoppages, contested possessions, clearances, tackles and average disposals.

If he could mark, he would be elite.

But being elite isn't exactly 'easy' -- we should be very happy with Minson's efforts last season and so far this year. We have far bigger problems, it's a bit petty to be trying to belittle his game IMO.

[1eyedog]

4. Adam Cooney - what a last quarter!
3. Liam Jones - super marks and mostly great kicking
2. Tom Young - wonderful poise all night
1. Jason Johannisen - excellent speed, great tackles and usually long kicks out of defence

2. Liam Jones
1. Tom Young

x2

Thanks.

[dadsgirl16]

4.Jones
3.Cooney
2.Libba
1.Young

2.Jones
2.Libba

[westdog54]

Voting Closed. Results to be posted shortly.