Ayce Cordy

[Bulldog4life]

There has been a lot of discussion on Ayce Cordy in various other threads so he is an interesting subject for us to talk about. I am in the camp that sees Ayce as a very important player in our set up in the coming years due to his size and agility for a player of 202cm. I believe his position is forward pocket/ second ruck ruck similar to Tyron Vickery's position at Richmond.There are many different views on Ayce on this forum but I discovered an interesting comparison with Vickery who is considered an important player in the Richmond forward line this year. The below comparison is for 2012 and Vickery has played nearly 2 seasons more than Ayce.
What do others think of Cords and the comparison to Vickery considering how many more games Vickery has played ? Are some of us being too harsh on Ayce? Will he be important to us in the future? Can Ayce be more effective with Stringer at full forward? (Vickery has reiwoldt as full forward)


Player Statistics Comparison

Ayce Cordy Tyrone Vickery
Western Bulldogs Richmond Tigers
Forward, Ruck Forward
17 Career Games 59

Geelong Falcons Origin Sandringham Dragons

August 6, 1990 Date of Birth May 31, 1990

202cm Height 200cm
99kg Weight 97kg
Round 1, Pick #14 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #8
Western Bulldogs Last Drafted By Richmond Tigers
2012 Stats for Season 2012
12 Games 9
4.2 Kicks Per Game 4.6
3.8 Handballs Per Game 3.6
8.0 Disposals Per Game 8.1
3.3 Marks Per Game 2.3
0.7 Goals Per Game 0.8
0.6 Behinds Per Game 0.6
2.7 Tackles Per Game 2.3
2.2Hitouts Per Game 6.6
0.4 Frees For Per Game 0.6
0.5 Frees Against Per Game 0.7
4.8 Contested Possessions Per Game 3.6
3.8 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 4.9
4.6 Effective Disposals Per Game 5.6
57.5% Effective Disposals % Per Game 69.1%
1.7 Clangers Per Game 1.4
1.4 Contested Marks Per Game 0.3
1.1 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 1.1
0.2Clearances Per Game 0.9
0.1 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.2
1.0 One Percenters Per Game 2.4
0.1 Bounces Per Game 0
80.8 Time On Ground % Per Game 78.9

[F'scary]

Interesting. But Cordy still needs to spend some time in the reserves. Plan A was keep playing him regardless of form so that he would improve. That has not been successful because our team is not strong enough at the moment to carry him. Therefore, for the time being, I prefer Plan B: make do with Marko or Austin or Young or Morris at FB or CHB until Talia is ready and play "Pretty Boy" Roughead as FP/2nd Ruck. For what it is worth, I also regard Big Will as a near waste of space in the FP when he has to rest there. But at least it is only for around 5 minutes a quarter, not 25.

[whythelongface]

F'scary I disagree on using Roughead as our FP/ 2nd ruck as his development as a FB has been outstanding and we need to continue his development in this area. I believe it is a good option for Roughead to go forward, at times, when the need requires or he doesn't have a match-up, however in general we are better off as a team seeing him develop as our FB.

I would like to see Cordy given the opportunity to play as a third tall. In time I think it will work in our favour. If we can get a combination of Jones, Stringer and Cordy working as three talls we will have three genuine targets within our forward line. Of course Cordy needs to be able take marks on a regular basis, however even if he is able to compete and force the ball to ground we have seen the likes of Dahlhaus, Smith etc pick up the crumbs and create opportunities to score.

[Greystache]

I appreciate what you're trying to show, but it's not an accurate depiction. Vickery went into 2012 with a shoulder injury, only lasted 9 games before going in for a reconstruction. Cordy played almost the whole season injury free.

If you go back to 2011 Vickery and Cordy were both injury free, Vickery played 22 games and kicked 36 goals, Cordy played 2. So far this season both players are injury free (Cordy missed 1 games with a tight back), Vickery has kicked 9 goals and and averages 5 marks per game, Cordy has 3 and averages 1 mark per game.

2012 was a down season for Vickery, but in the years either side he's proven to be well ahead of Ayce in terms of development.

[Bulldog4life]

F'scary I disagree on using Roughead as our FP/ 2nd ruck as his development as a FB has been outstanding and we need to continue his development in this area. I believe it is a good option for Roughead to go forward, at times, when the need requires or he doesn't have a match-up, however in general we are better off as a team seeing him develop as our FB.

I would like to see Cordy given the opportunity to play as a third tall. In time I think it will work in our favour. If we can get a combination of Jones, Stringer and Cordy working as three talls we will have three genuine targets within our forward line. Of course Cordy needs to be able take marks on a regular basis, however even if he is able to compete and force the ball to ground we have seen the likes of Dahlhaus, Smith etc pick up the crumbs and create opportunities to score.

I agree whythelongface. I think Cords will gain a lot from having a third tall in the forward line instead of him being the number one target.

[F'scary]

F'scary I disagree on using Roughead as our FP/ 2nd ruck as his development as a FB has been outstanding and we need to continue his development in this area. I believe it is a good option for Roughead to go forward, at times, when the need requires or he doesn't have a match-up, however in general we are better off as a team seeing him develop as our FB.

I would like to see Cordy given the opportunity to play as a third tall. In time I think it will work in our favour. If we can get a combination of Jones, Stringer and Cordy working as three talls we will have three genuine targets within our forward line. Of course Cordy needs to be able take marks on a regular basis, however even if he is able to compete and force the ball to ground we have seen the likes of Dahlhaus, Smith etc pick up the crumbs and create opportunities to score.

I am not writing him off. I can see an excellent 1st ruck emerging in The-Ace-in-the-Pack. I just think he needs some time in the reserves and to force his way back in to the seniors. He has been getting an armchair ride in terms of being selected regardless of form.

Sorry but I have determined that I am not a big fan of our best forward/2nd ruckman, Roughead, playing at full back.

[whythelongface]

I am not writing him off. I can see an excellent 1st ruck emerging in The-Ace-in-the-Pack. I just think he needs some time in the reserves and to force his way back in to the seniors. He has been getting an armchair ride in terms of being selected regardless of form.

Sorry but I have determined that I am not a big fan of our best forward/2nd ruckman, Roughead, playing at full back.

No need to be sorry. You make a valid point it is just that I disagree with you :)

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I appreciate what you're trying to show, but it's not an accurate depiction. Vickery went into 2012 with a shoulder injury, only lasted 9 games before going in for a reconstruction. Cordy played almost the whole season injury free.

If you go back to 2011 Vickery and Cordy were both injury free, Vickery played 22 games and kicked 36 goals, Cordy played 2. So far this season both players are injury free (Cordy missed 1 games with a tight back), Vickery has kicked 9 goals and and averages 5 marks per game, Cordy has 3 and averages 1 mark per game.

2012 was a down season for Vickery, but in the years either side he's proven to be well ahead of Ayce in terms of development.

I see Minson and Roughead being our best ruck/ forward combination going forward. BMcC had earmarked Roughead early in 2012 as being our best future ruckman before being forced to move him to full back. Our team had more flexibility up forward without Cordy and Gia against Geelong. In our best team I do not see a spot for Cordy. I would like to think that our future two key defenders will be Talia and Roberts with Roughead adding experience and quality up forward to support both Jones and Stringer.

[lemmon]

I am not writing him off. I can see an excellent 1st ruck emerging in The-Ace-in-the-Pack. I just think he needs some time in the reserves and to force his way back in to the seniors. He has been getting an armchair ride in terms of being selected regardless of form.

Sorry but I have determined that I am not a big fan of our best forward/2nd ruckman, Roughead, playing at full back.

But you're a fan of our best genuine key position backman (ie. not Dale Morris) playing in the ruck?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I just don't see how or where he makes it.

Not a natural forward whatsoever. Severe lack of intensity and aggression that is absolutely required as a KPF to first make a contest and second impact the contest. He often does neither. He is an average mark and plays like a ruckman resting forward in that he rarely leads or presents to the ball. Whilst some of this can be improved, let's be realistic. We criticized Minson throughout his career for not being able to do a few of the things above, but he at does provide a contest and he's ten times the player Cordy is. Even in Minson's youngest days, he had a physical presence which Ayce does not. Why do posters think this is suddenly going to change for Ayce? It's the same reason Watts struggles -- he lacks intensity/purpose/aggression.

I do think Ayce's ruck work is OK and it forces him to move around the ground and follow the play, so to speak. He's more effective in this role because it demands more from him -- he can't just sit back like he does in the forward half of the ground. The problem is that he doesn't have the strength to match it with AFL quality ruckmen at the moment. Can he fix this? Maybe -- it is his best chance IMO.

[Bulldog Joe]

I see Minson and Roughead being our best ruck/ forward combination going forward. BMcC had earmarked Roughead early in 2012 as being our best future ruckman before being forced to move him to full back. Our team had more flexibility up forward without Cordy and Gia against Geelong. In our best team I do not see a spot for Cordy. I would like to think that our future two key defenders will be Talia and Roberts with Roughead adding experience and quality up forward to support both Jones and Stringer.

Are you sure about this.

I personally spoke to BMc at the 2012 Hall of Fame dinner and he stated that Roughead was going to be a very good Key Back.

Everything I have ever seen or heard directly from the coach or indirectly through others indicates that Roughy was earmarked very early as the Brian Lake replacement.

He first played back last year against Mitch Clark in Round 4.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Are you sure about this.

I personally spoke to BMc at the 2012 Hall of Fame dinner and he stated that Roughead was going to be a very good Key Back.

Everything I have ever seen or heard directly from the coach or indirectly through others indicates that Roughy was earmarked very early as the Brian Lake replacement.

He first played back last year against Mitch Clark in Round 4.

I can only pass on what was expressed to me by the coach. If Minson was to go down for instance who would we play as first ruck? Minson has been terrific this year and I thought he dominated against Geelong.
Roughead has been good at full back and right now is our best option but eventually I believe he could still be better value as a ruckman cum forward.

[Bulldog4life]

I appreciate what you're trying to show, but it's not an accurate depiction. Vickery went into 2012 with a shoulder injury, only lasted 9 games before going in for a reconstruction. Cordy played almost the whole season injury free.

If you go back to 2011 Vickery and Cordy were both injury free, Vickery played 22 games and kicked 36 goals, Cordy played 2. So far this season both players are injury free (Cordy missed 1 games with a tight back), Vickery has kicked 9 goals and and averages 5 marks per game, Cordy has 3 and averages 1 mark per game.

2012 was a down season for Vickery, but in the years either side he's proven to be well ahead of Ayce in terms of development.

I wasn't aware of Vickery's injury. We can only hope that Cordy continues to improve. Time will tell.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm still hopeful of Cordy making it, but as time goes on the case against him ever making it mounts.

He's got a lot of improvement to make, and whilst he's shown it in patches he has a long way to go with his performance and then the difficulty will be for him to perform consistently. I think he still needs to work on his strength and body. I hope his history of shoulder injuries hasn't ruined his ability to consistently present for overhead marks and contests, but it remains a concern based on watching him play.

Fingers crossed for Ayce, he's going to stay on the list for another couple of years at least I'd suggest, so hopefully the perseverance pays off.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm still hopeful of Cordy making it, but as time goes on the case against him ever making it mounts.

He's got a lot of improvement to make, and whilst he's shown it in patches he has a long way to go with his performance and then the difficulty will be for him to perform consistently. I think he still needs to work on his strength and body. I hope his history of shoulder injuries hasn't ruined his ability to consistently present for overhead marks and contests, but it remains a concern based on watching him play.

Fingers crossed for Ayce, he's going to stay on the list for another couple of years at least I'd suggest, so hopefully the perseverance pays off.

Oh come off it. People were saying that about Liam Jones last year!!




Not a natural forward whatsoever. Severe lack of intensity and aggression that is absolutely required as a KPF to first make a contest and second impact the contest.

Simply not true.

[Go_Dogs]

Oh come off it. People were saying that about Liam Jones last year!!

They were, but at least he'd had an OK 2011 as some evidence he had the ability. I'm genuinely still pretty positive about Ayce but he's got to at least start to demonstrate he can impose himself on a game, even if it's just for patches at the moment.

As I said, he's still got time and I think he can make it. Hopefully he can start to show some improvements as Jones is.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Simply not true.

Evidence suggests otherwise.

[Greystache]

Oh come off it. People were saying that about Liam Jones last year!!

The two arent even comparable other than they are both tall. Jones was 21 last year, was coming of some impressive efforts, was expected to be our main target, and was getting double teamed every week. It was disappointing he didn't take another step forward but to write him off was ridiculous. Cordy will be 23 this year, has at best shown limited glimpses of competence, and is only expected to play a role as the 2nd ruck/forward which he's struggling to manage.


Simply not true.

No, it's exactly true. Being tall and playing forward doesn't make a player a key forward, Cordy hasn't displayed the attributes of a key position player at all. Expecting him to suddenly change would be based on hope rather than logic.

[Maddog37]

Can only ever see him as a part time forward to maximize match up advantages. Lacks agility and explosiveness.

I Can see him as a good ruckman around the ground however with his athleticism and good skills.

[jeemak]

The two arent even comparable other than they are both tall. Jones was 21 last year, was coming of some impressive efforts, was expected to be our main target, and was getting double teamed every week. It was disappointing he didn't take another step forward but to write him off was ridiculous. Cordy will be 23 this year, has at best shown limited glimpses of competence, and is only expected to play a role as the 2nd ruck/forward which he's struggling to manage.

No, it's exactly true. Being tall and playing forward doesn't make a player a key forward, Cordy hasn't displayed the attributes of a key position player at all. Expecting him to suddenly change would be based on hope rather than logic.

Just because we've been playing him at FF doesn't mean we're expecting him to become one long term though, does it? What's this fascination with him becoming a genuine KPF, when really to contribute well and consistently he might need to become a competent forward and ruck specialist?

We're obviously hoping this happens sooner rather than later for Cordy. Logic to me suggests that he'll become more aggressive with confidence and maturity, like a lot of other players.

[Greystache]

Just because we've been playing him at FF doesn't mean we're expecting him to become one long term though, does it? What's this fascination with him becoming a genuine KPF, when really to contribute well and consistently he might need to become a competent forward and ruck specialist?

We're obviously hoping this happens sooner rather than later for Cordy. Logic to me suggests that he'll become more aggressive with confidence and maturity, like a lot of other players.

I think he's being pencilled in to play that role because it seems so unlikely he can develop the strength and physicality to be a specialist ruckman, he may be able to play as a different sort of ruckman I suppose, but even as a junior he played predominantly as a forward/ruck.

[Ghost Dog]

Evidence suggests otherwise.

Only what chooses to be looked at. GO AYCE!!! Back you in big guy.

[Ghost Dog]

The two arent even comparable other than they are both tall. Jones was 21 last year, was coming of some impressive efforts, was expected to be our main target, and was getting double teamed every week. It was disappointing he didn't take another step forward but to write him off was ridiculous. Cordy will be 23 this year, has at best shown limited glimpses of competence, and is only expected to play a role as the 2nd ruck/forward which he's struggling to manage.



No, it's exactly true. Being tall and playing forward doesn't make a player a key forward, Cordy hasn't displayed the attributes of a key position player at all. Expecting him to suddenly change would be based on hope rather than logic.

Like the burst through the pack and snap for goal V Lions?
It comes down to whatever vision you choose to look at. But when Ash Hansen comes out and backs him in, I'll take that. But, you don't think he'll make it, ( not alone ) so that's a valid opinion as well. Time will tell. ,

[LostDoggy]

I think he will make it to a Vickery level but he will take more time. I will leave it up to the MC whether he will develop better in the AFL or the VFL but I doubt his spot on the list will be in question.

[jeemak]

I think he's being pencilled in to play that role because it seems so unlikely he can develop the strength and physicality to be a specialist ruckman, he may be able to play as a different sort of ruckman I suppose, but even as a junior he played predominantly as a forward/ruck.

Fair enough, reasonable points.

From a strength perspective I think he's a good three or so years away from peaking, and I think by that time he'll have improved other areas of his game (providing he can stay fit). If he has four or five years worth of good consistent football at the same time the rest of our list does I'll be pretty happy with that, whether it be as a first ruck or rucking forward pocket.

A lot of water to go under the bridge though.

[Greystache]

From a strength perspective I think he's a good three or so years away from peaking, and I think by that time he'll have improved other areas of his game (providing he can stay fit). If he has four or five years worth of good consistent football at the same time the rest of our list does I'll be pretty happy with that, whether it be as a first ruck or rucking forward pocket.

That's a very valid point too, if Ayce can make it he'll be hitting his peak at the time we should in theory be challenging. I hope he can make it, he seems like a really good man, I just want to start seeing something this year or I'll be really concerned.

[bornadog]

Some highlights from last week

BNyj-MLsG0M

[Cyberdoggie]

I'm hoping he had a lot more highlights than that.

The first mark was a nice one, using his body in the goal square to out muscle an opponent (albeit a smaller).

I would of expected to see a lot more marks considering the reports of the conditions and the amount of forward entries by Willy.

[jeemak]

I'm hoping he had a lot more highlights than that.

The first mark was a nice one, using his body in the goal square to out muscle an opponent (albeit a smaller).

I would of expected to see a lot more marks considering the reports of the conditions and the amount of forward entries by Willy.

Depends how they were delivering the ball doesn't it?

Playing forward in a team kicking with a strong wind can be extremely difficult. The ball flight his hard to judge, and defenders have the advantage of being able to play from behind a lot of the time rather than side by side.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The two marks were good, although he was playing on somebody half his size, but it's a start. It's what he simply needs to do if he's going to make it. Get aggressive, get angry, get proactive and hunt/launch/attack the ball rather than standing and waiting.

[Ghost Dog]

Kicking penetration has improved. Roosts the thing.

[Eastdog]

Bump.

What role do we see Ayce playing in 2015? Does he have a good future with us. Id say his more a back up ruck because when his played up forward he wasn't very effective.

[Twodogs]

I liked the Tom Campbell/Ayce Cordy double act at Footscray last year and I hope we see Tom and Ayce play a bit of football together at AFL level next year. They complement one another nicely changing between ruck and the forward line.

[LostDoggy]

Bump.

What role do we see Ayce playing in 2015? Does he have a good future with us. Id say his more a back up ruck because when his played up forward he wasn't very effective.
The role Ayce Cordy will play is going to be a very important one in securing back to back flags with Footscray.

[F'scary]

I think it is ok to continue with him as the VFL ruckman in 2015 & 2016 provided he keeps improving. There might come a time when we are lacking a ruck due to a long term injury or whatever and he could be cherry ripe to go by that stage.

[bulldogtragic]

I think it is ok to continue with him as the VFL ruckman in 2015 & 2016 provided he keeps improving. There might come a time when we are lacking a ruck due to a long term injury or whatever and he could be cherry ripe to go by that stage.
Serious?

[Mofra]

Serious?
Why not?

He'd be on base salary as a guy who can fill a role at AFL level if need be - we need ruck depth

[KT31]

I think it is ok to continue with him as the VFL ruckman in 2015 & 2016 provided he keeps improving. There might come a time when we are lacking a ruck due to a long term injury or whatever and he could be cherry ripe to go by that stage.

Other club's may have the luxury to have a back up player on their list for 8 or 9 years but we certainly cannot afford too, if he doesn't break through in the next year or two we need to trade or delist him.

[bulldogtragic]

Why not?

He'd be on base salary as a guy who can fill a role at AFL level if need be - we need ruck depth
If he gets to AFL standard this year I have no issue with a contract extension. If, as the post suggested, he continues to play VFL, I see no reason to contract him on the main list for 2016 with a view it being ok to play VFL in ( as the original post suggested).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

He would benefit from softening his hands when going for a mark. Relaxed hands perform way better than a clutch. This is learnable.

[Greystache]

He's extremely lucky to be on a list in 2015. He's shown mimimal ability in his 6 years at the club, and his rate of improvement is amongst the slowest I've seen. The fact that if Minson and Campbell got injured and it was up to Cordy to be the number one ruck for the season we'd be in a blind panic, despite him being 24 and into his 7th year in the system, says enough about where he is as a player.

Without a dramatic and unexpected improvement he'll be gone at season's end, and realistically if will be 3 years later than it should've been. Watching him during the preseason I don't see any chance of it happening.

[F'scary]

Why not?

He'd be on base salary as a guy who can fill a role at AFL level if need be - we need ruck depth

This is pretty much where I am coming from. With our ruck set up, the Minnow one man band show, and Campbell looking more likely to be the understudy and Roughead a ruckman as well as a KPB, there will be very limited opportunities for Ayce in 2015 barring an injury or form plague. So, if he looks like he could step up to AFL without actually being able to force his way into the side, I would retain him on the basis that for the next year or two he will mainly play in the VFL.

[F'scary]

but, yeah, 2015 could be his last year if he doesn't improve that little bit more.

[Mofra]

This is pretty much where I am coming from. With our ruck set up, the Minnow one man band show, and Campbell looking more likely to be the understudy and Roughead a ruckman as well as a KPB, there will be very limited opportunities for Ayce in 2015 barring an injury or form plague. So, if he looks like he could step up to AFL without actually being able to force his way into the side, I would retain him on the basis that for the next year or two he will mainly play in the VFL.
PSD reports seem to indicate Roughy's spent little - if any - time developing as a ruckman.

I think he'd make an excellent R2 playing forward and ruck but it seems he's earmarked as a pure backman in 2015.

[GVGjr]

Why not?

He'd be on base salary as a guy who can fill a role at AFL level if need be - we need ruck depth

I think we can stick with him given he won't be demanding a lot of money.

[Greystache]

I think we can stick with him given he won't be demanding a lot of money.

Is that really a reason to keep persisting with him, because he's cheap? A VFL ruckman like Sam Tagliabue would be even cheaper, plus there's also a chance he could turn into an AFL footballer. Surely that's a higher percentage play than keeping a player on the list who after 6 years still looks like an Irish rookie project.

[GVGjr]

Is that really a reason to keep persisting with him, because he's cheap? A VFL ruckman like Sam Tagliabue would be even cheaper, plus there's also a chance he could turn into an AFL footballer. Surely that's a higher percentage play than keeping a player on the list who after 6 years still looks like an Irish rookie project.

I'd back Cordy to be able to play a number of senior games next season if we really needed him so I see him as a decent option. The fact that we didn't draft a ruckman this year means we have some faith in him. I also thought his VFL form was good enough have maintain him.

[Greystache]

I'd back Cordy to be able to play a number of senior games next season if we really needed him so I see him as a decent option. The fact that we didn't draft a ruckman this year means we have some faith in him. I also thought his VFL form was good enough have maintain him.

I think the fact he might be able to play a few games at a pinch probably highlights he's barely depth quality. My concern is if we give him another year after next he'll still only be able to play a few games at a pinch, and the same the year after that. In doing so we lose the opportunity to develop a mature ruck that could be better than depth in a couple years time, or could be valuable on the trade market.

[GVGjr]

I think the fact he might be able to play a few games at a pinch probably highlights he's barely depth quality. My concern is if we give him another year after next he'll still only be able to play a few games at a pinch, and the same the year after that. In doing so we lose the opportunity to develop a mature ruck that could be better than depth in a couple years time, or could be valuable on the trade market.

But we aren't drafting young ruckman and we haven't even tried to do so via the rookie list.
To me it's one spot on a 44 man list that adds depth to a position that isn't as easily covered as some others.
An injury or two to Minson and Campbell means we are down to Cordy and Roughead. I rather have the extra option than maybe throwing Boyd into the ruck as a chop out option.

[Greystache]

But we aren't drafting young ruckman and we haven't even tried to do so via the rookie list.
To me it's one spot on a 44 man list that adds depth to a position that isn't as easily covered as some others.
An injury or two to Minson and Campbell means we are down to Cordy and Roughead. I rather have the extra option than maybe throwing Boyd into the ruck as a chop out option.

I think we're looking at the same point but from different directions. Cordy has a contract for 2015, nothing can be done about that now, what I'm saying is I don't think it makes any sense to give him another year in 2016 unless he shows the sort of improvement that looks impossible based on what he's shown to date.

We absolutely should be drafting a mature depth ruckman to take Cordy's list spot (as we should have done this year) for all the reasons you outlined for retaining Ayce. The upside is that mature player may also turn out to be better than just questionable ruck depth, whereas it's doubtful Cordy will.

[F'scary]

If Zaine turns out to be a gun, it might be wise to keep his brother on the payroll for a number of seasons longer.

[KT31]

If Zaine turns out to be a gun, it might be wise to keep his brother on the payroll for a number of seasons longer.
If you aren't already then Ayce needs to sign you up as his manager.;)
Brothers leaving has not been an issue in the past, Grant stayed when we delisted his brother.

[Murphy'sLore]

We now have two Boyds, two Cordys and two Smiths on the list. Have we ever had so many doubled-up names before?

[Avoid the rush]

Can't really argue with Greystache but one thing makes me think he is worth perservering with. I reckon Ace has really good disposal for his size both hand and foot and I also think he has struggled with his size. Paul Salmon took ages to realize his potential and we live in hope. (I know he's not Paul Salmon, but there are similarities)

[Twodogs]

We now have two Boyds, two Cordys and two Smiths on the list. Have we ever had so many doubled-up names before?


Good question.

There are a few "unrelated but with the same surname on the list at the same time" category I can think of off the top of my head. The Wests, the Berrys, the Darcys, the Baxters and the Murphys. We've also had two players called McGhie/Magee playing in the same team.

Back in the late '80s we had a plan to confuse the opposition by having two players with the same surname swap in the centre. Luckily Wallace and Wallis got over the confusion and became greats of the club.

[bornadog]

Good question.

There are a few "unrelated but with the same surname on the list at the same time" category I can think of off the top of my head. The Wests, the Berrys, the Darcys, the Baxters and the Murphys. We've also had two players called McGhie/Magee playing in the same team.

Back in the '80s we had a plan to confuse the opposition by having two players with the same surname swap in the centre. Luckily Wallace and Wallis got over the confusion and became greats of the club.

and the twin Atkins boys

[Greystache]

Can't really argue with Greystache but one thing makes me think he is worth perservering with. I reckon Ace has really good disposal for his size both hand and foot and I also think he has struggled with his size. Paul Salmon took ages to realize his potential and we live in hope. (I know he's not Paul Salmon, but there are similarities)

When Paul Salmon was Cordy's age he'd played 104 games and kicked 257 goals, including 63 in one season. He'd also had injury interruptions and played significant ruck time.

[bornadog]

Next season is make or break for him, I think we have been very patient with him.

[Bulldog4life]

When Paul Salmon was Cordy's age he'd played 104 games and kicked 257 goals, including 63 in one season. He'd also had injury interruptions and played significant ruck time.

Yes Cordy is streets away from what Salmon was at the same age. All we can hope for at stage is that Ayce can continue his improvement from last season and play some senior footy in 2015. Then let's look at his future at the end of next season. Time will tell whether he is worth hanging on too. Who knows he might surprise a lot of people. I hope he does.

[1eyedog]

If Zaine turns out to be a gun, it might be wise to keep his brother on the payroll for a number of seasons longer.

Kinda like the Collingwood scenario with Cameron, Jason and finally Travis?

[Avoid the rush]

When Paul Salmon was Cordy's age he'd played 104 games and kicked 257 goals, including 63 in one season. He'd also had injury interruptions and played significant ruck time.

I did say "I know he's not Paul Salmon". I do have vivid memories though of watching Salmon on TV in the Magoos being totally slagged off by Don Scott saying how WEAK he was. Cordy too has had subtantial setbacks with shoulder issues. I also believe changing mouthguards might just make all the difference!!!!!!!!

[Twodogs]

Salmon did his knee before the halfway mark of the year he kicked 63 too. He was on target for a huge tally.

[LostDoggy]

For a bloke who is 202cm he simply just doesn't do enough at vfl level let alone another step up, at his size he should be able to tear games apart.Id really like to see an aggressive Ayce not the apologetic Ayce that I've seen so much off.

[lemmon]

For a bloke who is 202cm he simply just doesn't do enough at vfl level let alone another step up, at his size he should be able to tear games apart.Id really like to see an aggressive Ayce not the apologetic Ayce that I've seen so much off.

I thought his intensity was noticeably improved last year. He laid some big tackles around stoppages, wasn't afraid to get down and dirty and ground level and mixed it up with the little fellas quite well. Admittedly you would like to see him dominate marking contests and take marks above his head against the smaller opponents he usually plays on but as a pure ruckman I was pretty impressed with his development last year.

I don't mind Ayce, I think he has some nice qualities and could be an okay AFL ruckman but his problem is one he shares with the other rucks on our list- his best spot is as first ruck and when not rucking he is a poor option in the forward line. I'm willing to give him next year just based on what I thought was some solid to good VFL form in 2014.

[Jeanette54]

and the twin Atkins boys

Going back a bit further I seem to remember Graeme and Barry Ion; and the two Spargo boys Ricky and (the memory lets me down here.... damnit).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He improved this season and was pretty solid in the first two VFL finals. Thought he was OK v Sydney in terms of effort, but the reality is he is still a country mile off making the grade at the top level. Much like Grey, barring a miracle I don't see how he stays on the list post 2015. He really does look out of his depth even at training.

[stefoid]

Club website says he is 204cm.

[1eyedog]

Going back a bit further I seem to remember Graeme and Barry Ion; and the two Spargo boys Ricky and (the memory lets me down here.... damnit).

Bob?

I googled it ;)

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Going back a bit further I seem to remember Graeme and Barry Ion; and the two Spargo boys Ricky and (the memory lets me down here.... damnit).
Ricky and Bob Spargo lived a few doors down from me in Droop st in the firebrigade's flats.

[jeemak]

While it's certainly time for Ayce to start showing his worth I do think some of his efforts for Footscray this year provide some optimism for this coming year and possibly the next - which, granted, is more than we could have said for other years to this point.

Our athletic and slender (at the time of drafting) talls seem to have had over the years a more difficult time developing their bodies and games comparatively to those on other lists over the years (comment based on anecdotal evidence - I don't have the research to back it up to any extent). Whilst I'll always acknowledge that a guy like Cordy putting on more than 30% of his original drafting weight on to his figure over a period of time would have to have been done with serious consideration from the conditioning staff, I can't help but think the slowly slowly approach to developing his body may have had some negative impacts on his development as a big man in the game. He's now six years in and he seems to have only just started to understand how to use his frame at seconds level.

That to me is unacceptable, irrespective of the injury issues he faced in his first few years at the club. Either he hasn't been conditioned properly, taught properly, or both (notwithstanding the possibility he never had it in him in the first place.

[Jeanette54]

Bob?

I googled it ;)

Thank-you 1eyedog, I should have remembered that. Bob Snr also played for the 'dogs. I have vivid memories of Bob Jnr running into an open goal at the scoreboard end and hitting both the goal post and the behind post with a mistimed stab kick. That was an achievement I have never seen repeated. :-)

[bornadog]

While it's certainly time for Ayce to start showing his worth I do think some of his efforts for Footscray this year provide some optimism for this coming year and possibly the next - which, granted, is more than we could have said for other years to this point.

Our athletic and slender (at the time of drafting) talls seem to have had over the years a more difficult time developing their bodies and games comparatively to those on other lists over the years (comment based on anecdotal evidence - I don't have the research to back it up to any extent). Whilst I'll always acknowledge that a guy like Cordy putting on more than 30% of his original drafting weight on to his figure over a period of time would have to have been done with serious consideration from the conditioning staff, I can't help but think the slowly slowly approach to developing his body may have had some negative impacts on his development as a big man in the game. He's now six years in and he seems to have only just started to understand how to use his frame at seconds level.

That to me is unacceptable, irrespective of the injury issues he faced in his first few years at the club. Either he hasn't been conditioned properly, taught properly, or both (notwithstanding the possibility he never had it in him in the first place.

The other thing we must consider is - does he really have talent?, or is he playing because he is 204cm.

[Twodogs]

Ricky and Bob Spargo lived a few doors down from me in Droop st in the firebrigade's flats.


I was born around the corner in Byron st.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I was born around the corner in Byron st.

We must've been equidistant from the Whitten Oval but with some roads separating us that were dangerous for young puppies.
I was born in our premiership year and left Footscray in our last GF year. Maybe I should return.
I still have faith in Ayce playing a role for us even if he is unlikely to fulfill the hopes around him when recruited.

[Twodogs]

We must've been equidistant from the Whitten Oval but with some roads separating us that were dangerous for young puppies.
I was born in our premiership year and left Footscray in our last GF year. Maybe I should return.
I still have faith in Ayce playing a role for us even if he is unlikely to fulfill the hopes around him when recruited.


You'd better move back stat then. Footscray is the coming residential area.

[bornadog]

You'd better move back stat then. Footscray is the coming residential area.

and getting more and more expensive now.

My first 4 years were spent in Wales St, opposite the park there.

[Twodogs]

and getting more and more expensive now.

My first 4 years were spent in Wales St, opposite the park there.

I can remember as a teenager knocking on doors in Wales st, Churchill Ave, Empire st and all up there on weekends seeing if any of the old ladies who lived in the houses wanted any work done.

I dread to think what would happen if you did that now.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I can remember as a teenager knocking on doors in Wales st, Churchill Ave, Empire st and all up there on weekends seeing if any of the old ladies who lived in the houses wanted any work done.

I dread to think what would happen if you did that now.

There was a family I chanced upon, between Droop St and the oval, when I was about 6 yo that had lots of sons, whose names, I kid you not were, Barry, Larry, Gary and Harry. Makes 'Ayce' sound supersonic.

[KT31]

There was a family I chanced upon, between Droop St and the oval, when I was about 6 yo that had lots of sons, whose names, I kid you not were, Barry, Larry, Gary and Harry. Makes 'Ayce' sound supersonic.

You are forgetting two brothers named Daryl ?:)

[westdog54]

I can remember as a teenager knocking on doors in Wales st, Churchill Ave, Empire st and all up there on weekends seeing if any of the old ladies who lived in the houses wanted any work done.

I dread to think what would happen if you did that now.

Best case scenario is you end up on A Current Affair painted as a shonky door to door tradesman.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

You are forgetting two brothers named Daryl ?:)

Must've been a large family who ran out of names:)

[jeemak]

This Ayce Cordy thread's going well. :)

[BornInDroopSt'54]

This Ayce Cordy thread's going well. :)

The Cordy's names, Ayce and Zaine, rival the Zappas, Dweezil and Moonunit:)

[bornadog]

This Ayce Cordy thread's going well. :)

Got a bit boring I guess. :D

[LostDoggy]

The Cordy's names, Ayce and Zaine, rival the Zappas, Dweezil and Moonunit:)

We've got Cordy's from A to Z!