Paul Roos

[bulldogtragic]

Robbo has mentioned on 360 this week he reckons Roos will coach in Victoria next year.

'IF true'

Would you do a Fremantle (dump a a reltively inexperienced head coach for a seasoned and proven head coach) or stick with our BMac and see how it goes???

[azabob]

Robbo has mentioned on 360 this week he reckons Roos will coach in Victoria next year.

'IF true'

Would you do a Fremantle (dump a a reltively inexperienced head coach for a seasoned and proven head coach) or stick with our BMac and see how it goes???

Interesting question, not sure of the answer.

But what club? Essendon? Melbourne? Richmond?

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting question, not sure of the answer.

But what club? Essendon? Melbourne? Richmond?

Roos officially denied interest in Melbourne.

Richmond and Essendon seem happy. Leaves the dogs as a possibility, perhaps...

[Eastdog]

If things don't improve as the season goes on under Bmac I wouldn't mind having a look at Roos and I think he could turn an average team into a very good team.

[chef]

Robbo has mentioned on 360 this week he reckons Roos will coach in Victoria next year.

'IF true'

Would you do a Fremantle (dump a a reltively inexperienced head coach for a seasoned and proven head coach) or stick with our BMac and see how it goes???

Do a Freo in a heart beat

[Pickenitup]

Its Pretty simple if Roos wants to coach again we HAVE to talk to him.

[Throughandthrough]

Can he start tomorrow?

[bornadog]

We have won one game in the last 17 rounds and I can't see another win for sometime. GC will beat us next week.

[bulldogtragic]

We have won one game in the last 17 rounds and I can't see another win for sometime. GC will beat us next week.
But we've won the hard ball lately :)

Not too much BMac love in the thread so far. Is it just Roos is a better option, or a lack of faith in BMac???

[bornadog]

But we've won the hard ball lately :)

I think Macca will be around for another two years and then depending on what happens he may or maynot be there after that.

[Throughandthrough]

But we've won the hard ball lately :)

Not too much BMac love in the thread so far. Is it just Roos is a better option, or a lack of faith in BMac???


My faith in BMac has long faded. Seems like a nice enough guy, says all the right things, seems to know what he is saying, but our on field results are as bad as they have been for decades, and personally i cant see any light at the end of the tunnel

Roos is a provem coach with a very ugly game style, but at least we know he can coach.

[jeemak]

We won't be able to afford him.

[Remi Moses]

I think Brendan McCartney,if results don't pick up in 12 months time will be under serious heat.
Think that's obvious.
Robbo mentioned Roos has a child with another year of school to complete.
I'm still not swayed either way yet to be honest on Brendan

[AndrewP6]

If Peter Gordon can supplement our bank balance, then absolutely I'd do it. In a heartbeat.

I don't think we could afford it though.

[Doc26]

My faith in BMac has long faded. Seems like a nice enough guy, says all the right things, seems to know what he is saying, but our on field results are as bad as they have been for decades, and personally i cant see any light at the end of the tunnel

Roos is a provem coach with a very ugly game style, but at least we know he can coach.

Seven years into Mark Thompson's tenure as Geelong senior coach, rebuilding their now much revered outfit with 3 premierships in the bank, had many at the cattery demanding his head in 2006. Now Bomber would be one of the most highly sought after coaching commodities. I fear a lack of patience and resolve given our desperation for short term success is our achilles heel, and not necessarily Brendan McCartney's ability to play a key role in getting the job done for us.

[Hotdog60]

I'm in the camp of give Macca a go, he is starting from scratch and it will take time to get the kids to that 50 game mark where we should then expect consistency and forward movement.

I would give him another 2 years to see how it unfolds. Roos will be in the same boat as Macca and he won't get much more until the kids get games under their belt.

We need to be patient.

[MrMahatma]

It's no offence to Macca to say we'd go with Roos. I would. Most clubs in the comp would.

Even Freo would prob do a Freo...

[ratsmac]

I am still a BMac fan, but only just. He has inherited a list with massive holes in it. I wouldn't mind seeing a win every now again though. At seasons end there's a good chance I would even take wallet back:eek:

[LostDoggy]

Roos officially denied interest in Melbourne.

Richmond and Essendon seem happy. Leaves the dogs as a possibility, perhaps...

Hird officially denied interest in Essendon.

[Ghost Dog]

Robbo has mentioned on 360 this week he reckons Roos will coach in Victoria next year.

'IF true'

Would you do a Fremantle (dump a a reltively inexperienced head coach for a seasoned and proven head coach) or stick with our BMac and see how it goes???

Melbourne will give him an open checkbook. Won't come near us.

[dog town]

I could be very wrong but my read on Roos is that he was in the right place at the right time with the swans. Don't get me wrong, it was an amazing coaching performance to do what he did with them from 2003-2006. I just think the way the game was played at that stage, the swans personnel and his method/values/philosophy all fell into line perfectly. When you hear him discuss footy now I am not sure he is the sort of guy who adapts with the game but I am in a pretty limited position to be assuming that.

The swans play a very different style now to what they did under Roos and really only became contenders again after Roos left. He had Longmire, Ross Lyon and the best medical department in the league at the swans. In their grand final years they barely had an injury and all of their medical staff were poached soon after. They also kicked amazingly accurately in those years and that was arguably their best asset. Some of these things are a credit to Roos coaching no doubt.

Few questions to answer.

1. Would his coaching philosophy stand up these days and if not is he adaptable enough to tinker with it?

2. Could we get him the same level of support he had at his former club?

3. He wont start with "the bloods culture" so will he be able to cultivate that again? As I said everything was just perfectly in line when the swans were challengers. Some of it he has to take huge credit for. Some of it was a lucky coincidence and the work of others. You can help bring that out of players but you need some unbelievable leaders to create what they have I have seen it at local level. Often the players are the ones that really drive culture. Do we have those leaders? It's hard to say.

4. Do we have the sort of list that suits Roos? I think in some ways we do. We have lots of ball winners and some solid young defenders to work with. We do still have lots of development to do with our list though and that hasn't been Roos area of strength.

Despite all these questions you can't deny a premiership coach has a certain aura about them that you can't buy. The players would play for him no doubt. I just don't think we should blindly chase him. That is my view from a pretty limited knowledge of how adaptable Roos can be.

[The Doctor]

DT don't underestimate how strong a manager Roos is. not just a coach but a manager of people. I've seen it first hand inside and outside of football.

Remember when Roos took over the Swans they were a declining force as the Rocket years were waning. They looked as far from a premiership as we do now. It only took a few years for Roos to guide them to the top. His mantra of strong leadership at all levels, prudent list management and a ruthlessly determined team got them there.

Roos along with Stuart Maxfield were the principle architects of the Bloods culture. Roos has a great way in getting people to believe in something or a philosophy he has or a basic direction. Modestly talented players like Brett Kirk rise above the ordinary as a result. Roos is brilliant at identifying strong characters and enabling them to influence those around them and help mesh a unique team spirit and will to succeed.

It is true he had great support staff. But he cobbled that together. He delegated responsibility superbly and shared the power and everyone knew what to do but everyone also knew who was in charge. He coached his assistants to be terrific coaches in their own right. Recognized their talents and empowered them. Helped make them strong leaders.

The thing I believe that helped Roos the most was the strong leadership at the club in senior managerial positions. Richard Colless in my view had been the best President/Chairman of any club in the AFL, arguably ever. He will be missed when he goes.

I'd like us to pursue Roos whether as coach or perhaps to run the football dept if he was up for that. I see our club as a project he wouldn't mind having a go at.

[bornadog]

I'd like us to pursue Roos to run the football dept if he was up for that. I see our club as a project he wouldn't mind having a go at.

This^^^

[LostDoggy]

Seven years into Mark Thompson's tenure as Geelong senior coach, rebuilding their now much revered outfit with 3 premierships in the bank, had many at the cattery demanding his head in 2006. Now Bomber would be one of the most highly sought after coaching commodities. I fear a lack of patience and resolve given our desperation for short term success is our achilles heel, and not necessarily Brendan McCartney's ability to play a key role in getting the job done for us.

Exactly. I want Macca to have 5 years at least to develop his plan and I don't care if we struggle for another 2 of those. Building bigger bodies, endurance and experience whilst at the same time getting more top line draft picks is the way to go. Cutting his tenure short is just mindless merry go round stuff.

Judge not on results but on how our young players are progressing and how much selfless team footy we are able to play over time. Put simply, I don't mind if we lose another 20 games as long as I can see improvement in the way we are adhering to structures and that we are doing it for longer.

[dog town]

DT don't underestimate how strong a manager Roos is. not just a coach but a manager of people. I've seen it first hand inside and outside of football.

Remember when Roos took over the Swans they were a declining force as the Rocket years were waning. They looked as far from a premiership as we do now. It only took a few years for Roos to guide them to the top. His mantra of strong leadership at all levels, prudent list management and a ruthlessly determined team got them there.

Roos along with Stuart Maxfield were the principle architects of the Bloods culture. Roos has a great way in getting people to believe in something or a philosophy he has or a basic direction. Modestly talented players like Brett Kirk rise above the ordinary as a result. Roos is brilliant at identifying strong characters and enabling them to influence those around them and help mesh a unique team spirit and will to succeed.

It is true he had great support staff. But he cobbled that together. He delegated responsibility superbly and shared the power and everyone knew what to do but everyone also knew who was in charge. He coached his assistants to be terrific coaches in their own right. Recognized their talents and empowered them. Helped make them strong leaders.

The thing I believe that helped Roos the most was the strong leadership at the club in senior managerial positions. Richard Colless in my view had been the best President/Chairman of any club in the AFL, arguably ever. He will be missed when he goes.

I'd like us to pursue Roos whether as coach or perhaps to run the football dept if he was up for that. I see our club as a project he wouldn't mind having a go at.

I don't disagree with anything you said. He had to be all of those things for what happened at the swans to happen. I still think it all fell into line perfectly for him. Could that happen with us? It isn't out of the question. I was certainly going to mention Maxfield and Kirk. These 2 guys personify selflessness. I am a big believer in every person in a footy club is important and everyone has a role to play. Maxfield still has his influence felt to this day which is an amazing accomplishment.

My greatest reservations with Roos and it is the hardest one to justify is whether his philosophies can be adapted to today's game. The only real thing you ever hear him preach on TV is about accountability around stoppages. The game has changed so many times since he coached already and the swans were struggling to adapt when he left. The game may very well swing back his way but if it doesn't he needs to be able to change with it. Impossible for me to know whether it is an unfair assumption that he might struggle with this as I am not in the inner sanctum.

Thanks for the insight into Roos anyway from someone who has been around Sydney.

[Guido]

DT don't underestimate how strong a manager Roos is. not just a coach but a manager of people. I've seen it first hand inside and outside of football.

I remember Bruce McAvaney, and this was before Roos became coach of Sydney, describing him as someone with the golden touch. Any task, anything he pursued, any career, any business interests, if Paul Roos was involved, it simply turned out successful.

I also clearly remember something Terry Wallace said early in 2003, and this was as a full time commentator with 3AW only a few months after he was overlooked (but got paid out) for the Sydney job. It was a post game chat at about round 4 or 5 and Sydney i think had lost 3/4 on the trot and, at the time, looking like a bottom 4 team.

Wallace said that, having himself assessed the Sydney list when applying for the role six months earlier, whichever coach took on the Sydney job (and he included himself in that group) had a 5-6 year project ahead of them to get Sydney back into the finals again, this would obviously include missing the finals for a few years to rebuild properly and then rebound towards the end of the decade. From that point forward, Paul Roos then takes them to 6 finals appearances in a row, including 2 grand finals and a flag.

I agree with Dog Town that there is a chance that some aspects of the game may have passed him by and there would be a risk involved in bringing him in. And without a doubt Longmire has made alterations (for the better) to the way they go about it, but I reckon the foundations of that team/club, the pillars of how they go about it week to week, are still Paul Roos inspired. i.e. assuming the exact same squad, if Longmuir had have taken over from a Wallace instead, they would not have won the 2012 premiership. Hell, even Lomgmire himself might not be anywhere near the coach he is now without Roos' influence.

Found this article a while back ... pretty interesting to think about how much of a "sliding doors" moment this could have been for the two clubs:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/09/1031115998163.html

Where would the respective clubs be 10 years on, had Wallace gone to Sydney and we got Roos instead of Rohde? There would have been no Cooney and Griffen mind you.

[Throughandthrough]

Exactly. I want Macca to have 5 years at least to develop his plan and I don't care if we struggle for another 2 of those. Building bigger bodies, endurance and experience whilst at the same time getting more top line draft picks is the way to go. Cutting his tenure short is just mindless merry go round stuff.

Judge not on results but on how our young players are progressing and how much selfless team footy we are able to play over time. Put simply, I don't mind if we lose another 20 games as long as I can see improvement in the way we are adhering to structures and that we are doing it for longer.


I wonder how many wins our coach told the board he expected this year. Wouldn't be 2 or 3.

[The bulldog tragician]

This is one of the reasons I enjoy visiting Woof – a conversation, conducted in civil and thoughtful terms, with reasonable valid points of view swinging me from side to side. I’ve changed my mind several times as I’ve read these posts!

It’s an interesting topic because what’s really being discussed is what makes a great coach, and how much success is sheer coaching brilliance and how much it depends on other variables like: a well-resourced and well-managed club; a talented list just waiting for the timely introduction of discipline, game style and/or tactics; or accidents of luck, timing and history Sometimes no matter how talented the coach, they are coaching in an era where there is a super team that really stands head and shoulders above anyone else, and blocks what might have been a premiership any other year.

The years 1996-8 are an interesting case study in this. A premiership coach (Alan Joyce) was unable to lift our list above mediocrity in 1996. The next year we could have (should have...) won a flag, with pretty much the same resources and playing list. Does this mean Terry Wallace was a coaching genius and Alan Joyce a dud who was lucky with the list he had at Hawthorn? While we might reckon Wallace achieved wonders in getting us there, could another coach have made a difference on match day and altered the results of the Preliminary Finals That Must Not be Named in 97-98, where coaching moves (Smith on Robran still draws a shudder) or no apparent coaching moves in THAT last quarter could be said to have cost us the game? or were we and Wallace just bloody unlucky?

Back to the topic of Roos – I think he did marvels with a group that was no more and probably less talented than some of the Bulldog teams that haven’t gone all the way lately. But our list at the moment is really poor. BMac’s credentials are in developing young talent and building from the ground up. I think we have to be patient, but the footy nous of someone like Roos wouldn’t go astray.

[wimberga]

Interesting discussion and Roos is certainly a coach to be admired. However, I think bMac has got to be given time to make his stamp on our team/list/club, and that probably means at least 12 more months.

[lemmon]

No slight on Macca but Roos has been talked about as one of the best in recent history. The way he implemented a culture that has outlived his reign at the club, one that is imprinted on the young kids coming into the club and is carried by everyone from the Chairman to the boot-studder is something that I have ultimate respect for the man for. I have no doubt he would walk into the club and demand the respect/admiration of the playing group. Once again with all due respect to Macca, I would do the deal in a heartbeat

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Great thread/discussion.

I would be in favour of it, but I just can't see it happening. I don't think we'd be able to afford him, nor provide him with the resources he'd desire.

I also find it hard to see us pulling a 'Freo' -- our club isn't exactly renowned for making hard, tough decisions.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

No slight on Macca but Roos has been talked about as one of the best in recent history. The way he implemented a culture that has outlived his reign at the club, one that is imprinted on the young kids coming into the club and is carried by everyone from the Chairman to the boot-studder is something that I have ultimate respect for the man for. I have no doubt he would walk into the club and demand the respect/admiration of the playing group. Once again with all due respect to Macca, I would do the deal in a heartbeat

Your last statement is disappointing but understandable.
Both Roos and Leigh Matthews enjoyed great AFL concessions in coaching successful teams at Sydney and Brisbane with superior talent to work with. As has been stated previously Macca has been left with a poor list but I believe he is the genuine article and will do everything possible to bring success. The Club is well managed now with equalization being a keen ingredient to bring greater financial resources to the WB to enable it to compete with the stronger endowed clubs. We are all frustrated at the moment but the tide will eventually turn for the better. BMcC is the right person at this time in our history.

[Maddog37]

I do not like the results of the last 20 odd games, especially the way we completely roll over at times.

I appreciate the fact we have changed fitness staff. I like the fact we can see a clear direction in the type of people we are recruiting as players. The new coaching recruits are also a positive. A change in president is also a plus IMHO.

I like the way the club is portraying itself in the media and it's improved communication to us, the members.

I guess what I am saying is that the club is going very well in alot of areas and I feel that a big part of that change is the leadership provided by Macca and Peter. I want to believe that the onfield pain is as a result of taking a long term objective outlook focussing on not just building a team that wins games and maybe a flag but building a club that has the foundations to consistently produce quality players, teams and coaches. A place where every new person that comes in learns from the leaders before them and a team first, total commitment ethos is the norm. From this success will come.

Bottom line for me is that whilst we are lagging in on field performance I will always be slightly bitter and twisted about the coach but we simply need to try a different path to what we have done previously. We have to hold our nerve and believe in Macca and his plan. Now let's hope the players feel the same way or it is all for nought.

[bulldogtragic]

Things were looking up under Cheap as Chips too. Securing High draft picks, retained the onfield leadership team such as West, Grant, Smith, Johno etc, he also recruited a gun full forward, plus the additions of Koops, Streeta etc, etc. plus CaC's winning percentage is probably higher than the current coach.

It took a proven coach to show us just how off course we were. Sometimes spending the money pays a dividend. Eade was worth it, was he not??

[bornadog]

Things were looking up under Cheap as Chips too. Securing High draft picks, retained the onfild leadership team, also recruiting a gun full forward, plus the additions of Koops, Streeta etc, etc. plus CaC's winning percentage is probably higher than the current coach.

It took a proven coach to show us just how off course we were. Sometimes spending the money pays a dividend. Eade was worth it, was he not??

The one thing I will say is you can't win games with 15 players with less than 50 games under their belt. Macca is really up against it and I bet my bottom dollar that no coach can win with that little experience in the team, no matter who they are.

[bulldogtragic]

The one thing I will say is you can't win games with 15 players with less than 50 games under their belt. Macca is really up against it and I bet my bottom dollar that no coach can win with that little experience in the team, no matter who they are.
Fair point. But sill...

[Remi Moses]

I wonder how many wins our coach told the board he expected this year. Wouldn't be 2 or 3.

Don't think they would have had that conversation.
Peter Gordon's speech pre season resonates with me as each week goes by.
The club would be short sighted to end his tenure now and look like Richmond of the 80's.
By all means in 12 months time if there is no improvement The coach deserves the rounds of the kitchen sink. Pretty sure there will be supporters lining up with baseball bats.

[bulldogtragic]

Don't think they would have had that conversation.
Peter Gordon's speech pre season resonates with me as each week goes by.
The club would be short sighted to end his tenure now and look like Richmond of the 80's.
By all means in 12 months time if there is no improvement The coach deserves the rounds of the kitchen sink. Pretty sure there will be supporters lining up with baseball bats.
Didn't Richmond win a premiership in the 80's?

[Greystache]

Didn't Richmond win a premiership in the 80's?

The won a premiership in 1980, and the wooden spoon in 1987 and 1989.

[bulldogtragic]

The won a premiership in 1980, and the wooden spoon in 1987 and 1989.
I'd take an infinite number of spoons for a cup. I can't believe I'm this far in life and never experienced that feeling. It's that burn which drives my thinking when considering sticking to the same old path or he'd hunting someone who has been there, done that.

[Remi Moses]

Didn't Richmond win a premiership in the 80's?

After their flag they sacked Tony Jewell 12 months later.

[Greystache]

I'd take an infinite number of spoons for a cup. I can't believe I'm this far in life and never experienced that feeling. It's that burn which drives my thinking when considering sticking to the same old path or he'd hunting someone who has been there, done that.

As would I, but Richmond were a rabble through the mid-to-late 80's and haven't really recovered. They focused heavily on the short term and turned over everyone who didn't return immediate success. They were an example of how to run a club into the ground.

[westdog54]

The won a premiership in 1980, and the wooden spoon in 1987 and 1989.

And when you consider how we were travelling in 89, they must have been trying really hard for that spoon to end up below us.

[bulldogtragic]

Just for a thought, question what Paul Roos would have done today. Selection as well as positioning.

Maybe different, maybe the same. I'd like to think different.

[GVGjr]

Just for a thought, question what Paul Roos would have done today. Selection as well as positioning.

Maybe different, maybe the same. I'd like to think different.

I think the match day exploits aren't as significant as the preparation of the playing group and tactics leading into match day.

Roos would be as good as anyone at preparing a side and I think that is his great strength.

[LostDoggy]

We need to hold our nerve. At the very least macca is a great leader and developer of young talent / character. I can just see in two years time someone coming in and reaping the rewards of all maccas hard work. That would be so predictable and really piss me off. Look at the list he is building for gods sake. Imagine the same group, all in the same age bracket, with 100 games under their belts. That will be quite a team.

[azabob]

We need to hold our nerve. At the very least macca is a great leader and developer of young talent / character. I can just see in two years time someone coming in and reaping the rewards of all maccas hard work. That would be so predictable and really piss me off. Look at the list he is building for gods sake. Imagine the same group, all in the same age bracket, with 100 games under their belts. That will be quite a team.

Nice post, it certainly is short term satisfaction V longer term satisfaction.

Unfortunately which ever way we go there are no certainties in life.

[Bulldog4life]

No although I'm the wrong person to ask. For starters I can't stand Roos. Self opinionated and sanctimonious.Wouldn't like him as coach even if success was assured. Just can't stand the fellow.

[LostDoggy]

Would take him as an assistant

[BornInDroopSt'54]

No although I'm the wrong person to ask. For starters I can't stand Roos. Self opinionated and sanctimonious.Wouldn't like him as coach even if success was assured. Just can't stand the fellow.

I can see those elements of sanctimony and self-opinion but are these good things in a strong leader? The benign dictator maybe the ideal leader?
However Roos as an assistant could solve the problem of money and may appeal to Roos who could maintain media profile and supplement Bmac's game day strategies etc.

[Mantis]

We need to hold our nerve. At the very least macca is a great leader and developer of young talent / character. I can just see in two years time someone coming in and reaping the rewards of all maccas hard work. That would be so predictable and really piss me off. Look at the list he is building for gods sake. Imagine the same group, all in the same age bracket, with 100 games under their belts. That will be quite a team.

They will form part of a team, but we still have a huge number of holes in our team that will take some time to fill.

And it's well known within the footy industry that Macca is a good teacher... but we need a good coach.

And agree with B4L.. I can't stand Roos either.. He just seems a smug so and so..

[LostDoggy]

IMO i would like to see Bmac given at least till the end of 2014, and if by half way through season 2015 we don't seem any better. Look elsewhere

[Topdog]

IMO i would like to see Bmac given at least till the end of 2014, and if by half way through season 2015 we don't seem any better. Look elsewhere

We dont have that long. Has 6 games in 2014 for me. We need to have shown something by then.

RE: Roos, with all due respect to BMac it would be an instant yes. BMac MAY be great, Roos IS.