Match Committee- Round 9 vs St Kilda

[Greystache]

If you were on the match committee what changes would you make for next Saturday's game against St Kilda at Etihad Stadium.

As always a brief explanation for your changes would be good.

[Greystache]

Do we make some tough decisions?

[GVGjr]

Do we make some tough decisions?

I think so. We've played a number of youngsters but need to push it further.
Good chance to have a look at the likes of Grant (again) but also the likes of Roberts and Hrovat.

[Greystache]

I think so. We've played a number of youngsters but need to push it further.
Good chance to have a look at the likes of Grant (again) but also the likes of Roberts and Hrovat.

That's what I'm thinking.

In- Hrovat, Talia, Wallis, Grant

Out- Cross, Stevens, Goodes, Gia

It may be one of those occasions that Grant could be promoted from Williamstown reserves to AFL level.

[AndrewP6]

Out: Goodes
In: Hrovat.

Time to see if the kid can play. Leave Goodes as insurance against injury.

[bulldogtragic]

That's what I'm thinking.

In- Hrovat, Talia, Wallis, Grant

Out- Cross, Stevens, Goodes, Gia

It may be one of those occasions that Grant could be promoted from Williamstown reserves to AFL level.
I tend to agree, but I can't see Cross or Gia being dropped.

[The Pie Man]

Hmmm...

In: Roberts, Hrovat, Prudden,

Out: Markovic, Stevens, Goodes

Stevens had 19, but 8 of those came in a 1st quarter burst - thought he was largely ineffective

Markovic wasn't our worst, but playing him isn't time well spent Macca and you must know that

Goodes' disposal is leaning towards miss column way too much

Close to the worst 29 disposal game I've ever seen dished out from Matt Boyd. The 'chase' on the wing...real inspirational skip :rolleyes: but do you drop the captain?

Would like to see Grant, but it's hard to get promoted from 2 levels of footy away



2013 is turning decidedly ugly

[Scorlibo]

Out- Cross, Gia

Explain.

In - Wallis, Williams, Grant, Hrovat.
Out - Stevens, Markovic, Jones, Smith/Picken.

Wallis needs to come back in after his kick up the bum, while I'm a massive skeptic of Stevens' decision making. Williams to take over the role that Markovic played - just a better player, a player with a presence. Grant seems to have fallen into a black hole under McCartney, it's bizarre. He needs an opportunity, and Jones has been very poor two weeks in a row now. Hrovat, presuming he performs for Willy, gets his debut and should replace one of Smith and Picken, each of whom are guilty of consistently making poor decisions with the ball. I don't really think the last two changes will come to be but that's my take on it.

[DOG GOD]

Geez..gia will never be dropped..he would only miss thru injury, so forget about putting him in your "outs" as an omission. It's not gunna happen.

[Ghost Dog]

F@*%^ I hate being beaten by St Kilda

[Mantis]

That's what I'm thinking.

In- Hrovat, Talia, Wallis, Grant

Out- Cross, Stevens, Goodes, Gia



His last 2 games have been pretty good so I can't agree with this one.. Yes I understand the need to get young players into the team, but Gia is adding value to the team at present.. Perhaps later in the season, or after a string of poor games we make this move, but not now.

[Remi Moses]

Agree^^ tough gig being a forward when you have 50% kicking efficiency .
Wallis must play its as simple as that.

[Greystache]

His last 2 games have been pretty good so I can't agree with this one.. Yes I understand the need to get young players into the team, but Gia is adding value to the team at present.. Perhaps later in the season, or after a string of poor games we make this move, but not now.

He has been reasonable but he's not going to take us forward as we all know. We desperately lack run and defensive efforts, Stringer plays a similar midsized forward role and will get more footy directed at him as a primary target. Our leaders don't lead and I think it's a good time to start putting some responsibility on younger players to try to fast track them. We can bring him back later in the year as a farewell.

[bornadog]

His last 2 games have been pretty good so I can't agree with this one.. Yes I understand the need to get young players into the team, but Gia is adding value to the team at present.. Perhaps later in the season, or after a string of poor games we make this move, but not now.

Agreed 10 marks today, 5 inside 50's and still has some smarts about him. he is there to teach the younger players.

I don't get why according to supporters its always his fault we lose.

[Greystache]

Agreed 10 marks today, 5 inside 50's and still has some smarts about him. he is there to teach the younger players.

I don't get why according to supporters its always his fault we lose.

Who was blaming him for the loss? We're taking about transitioning.

[bornadog]

Who was blaming him for the loss? We're taking about transitioning.

Every time there is a loss his name comes up first to be dropped. The past two weeks he has shown he deserves his spot.

[Scorlibo]

He has been reasonable but he's not going to take us forward as we all know.

Taking one of our best forwards out of the side because he's old isn't taking us forward.


We desperately lack run and defensive efforts, Stringer plays a similar midsized forward role and will get more footy directed at him as a primary target. Our leaders don't lead and I think it's a good time to start putting some responsibility on younger players to try to fast track them. We can bring him back later in the year as a farewell.

That's your opinion and I can't take it away from you. Here's mine - no one knows who keeps his voice strong when the chips are down, aside from the playing group, and that's a significant part of leading. Opinions of leaders around the club suggest that Gia is the best in this regard.

I think that culling all the 'old leaders' in favour of young leaders is what's described as the Melbourne Model. I don't feel the need to elaborate further on why this has not worked for Melbourne.


Who was blaming him for the loss? We're taking about transitioning.

And if you're not basing your transitioning judgments on performance, then what? ie. Why are you not also calling for Murphy to be dropped? Morris?

I'd like to hear your reasoning on Cross, also.

[LostDoggy]

Our greatest issue, it seems to be agreed by most is spread and ball use. Identify the players weakest in this and replace with players who can do this.

Ins - Hrovat and Prudden
Outs - Pick the players not spreading or using it well....Gia (not ball use), Boyd and Cross all fit the bill, guess we will see how McCartney responds to the pressure that will be put on him this week. Maybe players like Smith, Stevens, Picken and Lower will be looked at. It will certainly be an interesting week.

My tips

In - Williams, Hrovat, Wallis
Out - Smith, Markovic, Picken

We desperately need tall support for Jones. Hope Williams can do this

[boydogs]

Disappointing game from Liam Jones today, really needed him to step up. A lot of games this year the red vest has been dropped the following week, I wonder whether this will happen again.

In: Williams, Grant
Out: Jones, Markovic

[kruder]

Its time Crossy.... Thanks a lot for you brilliant contribution over the years but with a draft of inside mids hence being played out of position, its time to bring in players who will actually play the half forward role in the future.

In: Williams, Roberts, Hrovat
Out:Cross, Markovic, Smith,

[LostDoggy]

Wallis must play every week. If it means Cross misses out then so be it.

Same with Jones, we just have to keep pumping games into him. If he gets dropped this week i'll be extremely disappointed.

If Picken isn't getting used as a tagger, then he doesn't play at all.

Goodes is being unfairly treated on here IMO atleast he's willing to show some pose and atleast try and pin point some targets. No one else is willing to take a risk with a kick in the cooridor. It's all just slam it on the boot stuff. Or a pointless handball to make it someone else's problem.

In: Wallis, Hrovat, Williams

Out: Stevens, Markovic, Picken

[always right]

Williams must play. The coach has been keen for him to ply alongside Jones from the first round.

I would also love to see Grant given a four week block of games to save his career at the dogs. Despite his failings he has pace and X factor, which are in short supply at our club.

In: Williams, Grant, Hrovat
Out: Markovic, Picken (that hurts), Smith

[Dog54]

Williams must play. The coach has been keen for him to ply alongside Jones from the first round.

I would also love to see Grant given a four week block of games to save his career at the dogs. Despite his failings he has pace and X factor, which are in short supply at our club.

In: Williams, Grant, Hrovat
Out: Markovic, Picken (that hurts), Smith

I agree Grant has talent something we are lacking. Play him he will perform better at AFL level than the VFL.

In williams Grant Prudden/hrovat wallis

Out: Markovic, Cross, Stevens picken/lower (both don't fit into same team)

[LostDoggy]

Saints dominate us with there tall players. Not sure we could do any changes to battle that. Williams in if he is available.

[firstdogonthemoon]

F@*%^ I hate being beaten by St Kilda

me too - i think i hate losing to them more than just about anyone else

[Mantis]

Williams must play. The coach has been keen for him to ply alongside Jones from the first round.

I would also love to see Grant given a four week block of games to save his career at the dogs. Despite his failings he has pace and X factor, which are in short supply at our club.

In: Williams, Grant, Hrovat
Out: Markovic, Picken (that hurts), Smith

Can't disagree with those changes.... Picken just seems lost at present, either try him forward or he gets omitted.

I saw Williams in the rooms at 1/2 time last night... Let's hope he is on the field for Willi today because he needs game time.

[westbulldog]

Out Picken Cross Boyd Stevens
In Wallis Williams Hrovat Roberts

[bornadog]

Out Picken Cross Boyd Stevens
In Wallis Williams Hrovat Roberts

Would you keep Markovic with two talls coming in?

[bornadog]

In: Grant, Roberts, Hrovat, Wallis, Prudden, Williams, Hunter, Tutt

Out: Take your pick, except, JJ, Stringer, Macrae, Jones, Roughead, Smith, Griffen, Cooney, Minson Dahl, and Libba

Lets start a new rebuild

[LostDoggy]

Boyd needs to be rested, our captain running around on one leg is embarrassing.

[Greystache]

In: Grant, Roberts, Hrovat, Wallis, Prudden, Williams, Hunter, Tutt

Out: Take your pick, except, JJ, Stringer, Macrae, Jones, Roughead, Smith, Griffen, Cooney, Minson and Libba

Lets start a new rebuild

Both these two are paying Williamstown reserves today.

[bornadog]

Both these two are paying Williamstown reserves today.

The sooner we get our own team the better.

[Greystache]

The sooner we get our own team the better.

Definitely. I watched Williamstown's last game and Prudden was a stand out. At least Hunter kept his place.

[Ghost Dog]

Wallis must play every week. If it means Cross misses out then so be it.

Same with Jones, we just have to keep pumping games into him. If he gets dropped this week i'll be extremely disappointed.

If Picken isn't getting used as a tagger, then he doesn't play at all.

Goodes is being unfairly treated on here IMO atleast he's willing to show some pose and atleast try and pin point some targets. No one else is willing to take a risk with a kick in the cooridor. It's all just slam it on the boot stuff. Or a pointless handball to make it someone else's problem.

In: Wallis, Hrovat, Williams

Out: Stevens, Markovic, Picken

Agreed. As fail prone as our kick ins are, give the guy something up the ground. At least he has a go.

[Ghost Dog]

It's alright to drop individuals based on a single performance, but what about team balance?
You could go with a young forward line of Dahlhaus, Stringer, Macrae, Jones, Hrovat and maybe Cordy, but at least throw Addison or Gia in for a bit of experience.

[LostDoggy]

Boyd out Wallis in.

[LostDoggy]

Don't rubber band the younger players. Drop if they're tired. Drop if they've had four games in a row and not settled.

I'm talking about Stevens, Smith and even Goodes (as all mentioned above).

[SlimPickens]

Out: Cross, Boyd, Smith, Marko

In: Williams, Talia, Hrovat, Wallis

Cross and Wallis can't be in the same team, Boyd is injured but also is struggling to lead the side and drive the standards required, Marko balance, Smith needs some time down at willy.

[westbulldog]

Would you keep Markovic with two talls coming in?

yes, good point BAD. I think Marko has done ok forward. Perhaps Williams/ Roberts could rotate off the bench what do you think ?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

This will be a good week to bring in Roberts and Talia to bring some badly needed height to our defence against St. Kilda. Making way for them would be Markovic and Stevens. I would like to see Griffen played at half back changing with Boyd. It might be time to move JJ to a wing and Goodes to half forward where he played his best football at Williamstown. Cooney could play at half forward alongside Murphy with Goodes on the other flank in an attempt to revitalize our attack. Our team has become very static and needs to be refreshed. This would be my starting line up.
B. Morris Roughead Talia
HB. Griffen Roberts Young
C. JJ Lower Macrae
HF. Cooney Murphy Goodes
F. Daulhaus Jones Stringer
R. Minson Liberatore Boyd
Int. Smith Cross Giansircusa Picken
In. Roberts Talia
Out. Stevens Markovic
Talia would have the experience of Morris and Roughead in the last line of defence whilst Roberts would be flanked by Griffen and Young who have both been good performers this year.

[bornadog]

This will be a good week to bring in Roberts and Talia to bring some badly needed height to our defence against St. Kilda. Making way for them would be Markovic and Stevens. I would like to see Griffen played at half back changing with Boyd. It might be time to move JJ to a wing and Goodes to half forward where he played his best football at Williamstown. Cooney could play at half forward alongside Murphy with Goodes on the other flank in an attempt to revitalize our attack. Our team has become very static and needs to be refreshed. This would be my starting line up.
B. Morris Roughead Talia
HB. Griffen Roberts Young
C. JJ Lower Macrae
HF. Cooney Murphy Goodes
F. Daulhaus Jones Stringer
R. Minson Liberatore Boyd
Int. Smith Cross Giansircusa Picken
In. Roberts Talia
Out. Stevens Markovic
Talia would have the experience of Morris and Roughead in the last line of defence whilst Roberts would be flanked by Griffen and Young who have both been good performers this year.

I like your thinking, however, the backline is too tall and the forward only has one tall? I would swap Roberts to the forward line.

[LostDoggy]

. This would be my starting line up.
B. Morris Roughead Talia
HB. Griffen Roberts Young
C. JJ Lower Macrae
HF. Cooney Murphy Goodes
F. Daulhaus Jones Stringer
R. Minson Liberatore Boyd
Int. Smith Cross Giansircusa Picken
In. Roberts Talia
Out. Stevens Markovic
Talia would have the experience of Morris and Roughead in the last line of defence whilst Roberts would be flanked by Griffen and Young who have both been good performers this year.

I would have Wallis in for Boyd, Cross or Picken

[G-Mo77]

Here is my stab in the dark. Wishful thinking on Hrovat and it's more than likely going to be just the 2 changes with Smith/Stevens making way.

In: Wallis, Williams, Hrovat
Out: Smith, Markovic, Stevens

[whythelongface]

To be honest I have no idea whom to bring in and no idea whom to drop. i don't think it will make too much difference anyway. I probably should say that I know who I would like to drop, but that won't happen, so really there is no point even listing my in's and out's as it is an exercise in futility.

[LostDoggy]

To be honest I have no idea whom to bring in and no idea whom to drop. i don't think it will make too much difference anyway. I probably should say that I know who I would like to drop, but that won't happen, so really there is no point even listing my in's and out's as it is an exercise in futility.

..and it's raining outside :D

[KT31]

..and it's raining outside :D

Not here.:D

[Remi Moses]

No floods for a change^^

[Cyberdoggie]

out: Markovic

in: Williams/Roberts.

[JohnGentStand]

in Roberts
out Stevens

[SlimPickens]

in Roberts
out Stevens

Where would you have Roberts play?

[JohnGentStand]

sub or swingman - swapping forward / back with Markovic as required.
Probably start Marko forward and Roberts on Siposs

[bornadog]

Macca says a couple of changes due to soreness and at least one omitted.

[Ghost Dog]

Where would you have Roberts play?

Good question. Wherever he played most of his junior career I reckon. Worked for Roughead.

[bornadog]

Good question. Wherever he played most of his junior career I reckon.

He prefers playing in the forward line.

[Ghost Dog]

Problem solved. Bring him on already. I like this kid.

[bornadog]

Problem solved. Bring him on already. I like this kid.

He say at our table at the season launch and I was very impressed with him. He made sure he went around the table and had a chat with every person before he sat down. His mum and Dad were also there. My first question to him was forward or back and he said forward. I said he had a great opportunity at the club because we are crying out for a key forward. He is still only 19 about to turn 20, 194cm but needs to put on some weight.

Played well on Sunday picking up 20 disposals and had 5 inside 50s.

[jeemak]

Out - Picken
In - Roberts

I've seen enough of Picken playing as a defender to tell me he's not going to have more than one good game out of four (which he's averaging at the moment). Sure, if there's a midfielder each for he and Lower to shut down I'll wear his inclusion. Whilst I understand he might be able to kick a goal or two and provide defensive pressure as a forward, I can't see any value in developing players in that role that aren't going to be long term options there. Sure, you might ask what does Gia offer if that's the case? My answer would be at least a couple of goals a game.

I want to see if Young can play on smaller and more versatile forwards in lieu of Picken being out of the side. It won't suit him to the ground, but at least we'll find out one way or another if he can.

Roberts to get his chance forward and back throughout the game.

*Understand the coach has said one or two will miss due to soreness. Without knowing who, it's too hard to make further changes.

[wimberga]

Macca flagged some changes in his press conference yesterday, saying there wouldn't be wholesale changes but might be a couple rested with soreness, "and 1 other".

It seems that the "other" is someone they have perhaps been flagging for a while in the VFL ie: Hrovat or Roberts. However, it could also just mean Tommy Williams.

[Mantis]

Report on FB that Cooney will miss 2 weeks due to a hamstring bleed.

[bornadog]

Report on FB that Cooney will miss 2 weeks due to a hamstring bleed.

Cooney out as Dogs hit fresh snag (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/cooney-out-as-dogs-hit-fresh-snag-20130522-2k1pi.html)

[SlimPickens]

Cooney out as Dogs hit fresh snag (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/cooney-out-as-dogs-hit-fresh-snag-20130522-2k1pi.html)

Maybe a blessing in disguise. Gives him a 3 week break mid season and some time to freshen up.

[wimberga]

Maybe a blessing in disguise. Gives him a 3 week break mid season and some time to freshen up.

Good point SP.

Bring on Hrovat?

[wimberga]

Shane Delia has tweeted good luck to Nathan Hrovat and said good luck for the weekend, congrats on the first game.

Seems a lock to be in this week.

[Go_Dogs]

Shane Delia has tweeted good luck to Nathan Hrovat and said good luck for the weekend, congrats on the first game.

Seems a lock to be in this week.

Great news, congrats to Nathan.

[KT31]

Good luck to Nathan, hope its the start to a great career for the Doggies.

[bornadog]

Shane Delia has tweeted good luck to Nathan Hrovat and said good luck for the weekend, congrats on the first game.

Seems a lock to be in this week.

Doggies are having a business luncheon at his restaurant tomorrow lunchtime (I am going) he must be a doggies fan and maybe in the know :eek:

[Mantis]

Doggies are having a business luncheon at his restaurant tomorrow lunchtime (I am going) he must be a doggies fan and maybe in the know :eek:

He is.... The players eat there a bit and tweet about it.

Really good feed in there, his TV show goes ok too. (It's on tonight - SBS 7.30pm)

[bornadog]

Its time Crossy.... Thanks a lot for you brilliant contribution over the years but with a draft of inside mids hence being played out of position, its time to bring in players who will actually play the half forward role in the future.

In: Williams, Roberts, Hrovat
Out:Cross, Markovic, Smith,

Cooney is out for 3 weeks so maybe instead of Smith, change for Coons

[Bulldog Joe]

Doggies are having a business luncheon at his restaurant tomorrow lunchtime (I am going) he must be a doggies fan and maybe in the know :eek:

Hoping for a great lunch. I will be there also.

[LostDoggy]

Doggies are having a business luncheon at his restaurant tomorrow lunchtime (I am going) he must be a doggies fan and maybe in the know :eek:

I met him last Saturday night after I bought dinner for 4 at the dogs B&F last year . He is a friendly guy and the food was great

[bulldogsthru&thru]

In: Addison, Williams, Hrovat
Out: Cooney, Cross, Markovic

On a side note Hayes is back in for the saints. Yay

[DOG GOD]

In: Addison, Williams, Hrovat
Out: Cooney, Cross, Markovic

On a side note Hayes is back in for the saints. Yay

Great new on Hayes....back to tear us a new one like usual :(

[chef]

In: Addison, Williams, Hrovat
Out: Cooney, Cross, Markovic

On a side note Hayes is back in for the saints. Yay

Pretty happy with those changes

[Mantis]

Cross dropped? Been along time since that happened, but was on the cards.

Not unhappy to see Williams in the team, but him not playing for 3 weeks worries me. Very happy Markovic has been left out.

Good luck to the first gamer.

[wimberga]

Reasonably happy with the changes. Thought that Roberts may have come in for Marko and am somewhat a little surprised that Crossy has been dropped but dropping youth for youth when senior players are only just going can cause more issues.

[DOG GOD]

Do u think cross will come back next week (give him a week to freshen up), or do you think his card has been marked?

[Prince Imperial]

I can't say that it's the wrong decision but I do feel a bit sad seeing Cross get dropped. He's been a regular since mid 2004 and a fine and determined player for a long period of time.

[Remi Moses]

Pretty pleased with the changes
Williams ( hopefully he gets through) for Markovic
Hrovat's a beauty. Sad for Daniel Cross but the game doesn't stop for anyone.

[Remi Moses]

In: Addison, Williams, Hrovat
Out: Cooney, Cross, Markovic

On a side note Hayes is back in for the saints. Yay

He's got old mans injury though.
Big risk, as they come back often calf injuries.

[Mofra]

Sad for Crossy, you know he'd be hurting right now.

Strange to see Williams straight in for Marko - thought Williams would have at least one game back to VFL level. Marko played ok, if he was to be dropped I'm surprised Roberts didn't get a run.

[LostDoggy]

Sad for Crossy, you know he'd be hurting right now.

Look I love the guy and everything he has done. But it wasn't like, "somebody has to go", he has punched his own ticket. I just hope they have made the point to the others not pulling their weight.

[Templeton31]

commiserations crossy. Wouldn't have been dropped for lack of effort.

[Ghost Dog]

Would have rather had Body take a spell than Cross. But guess you can't do that with the captain,

[The Pie Man]

Sad for Crossy, you know he'd be hurting right now.

Strange to see Williams straight in for Marko - thought Williams would have at least one game back to VFL level. Marko played ok, if he was to be dropped I'm surprised Roberts didn't get a run.

I'm REALLY surprised as well...and I like/want Tom in this role! Roberts has form, and match fitness.

Really strange

Good luck to Hrovat, looking forward to seeing him

[Ghost Dog]

Really like Hrovats highlights from Willy last week. Looks like a player who really gets involved, and a lovely kick.

[JohnGentStand]

Looking at the selected sides I feel the Sains match up extremely well against us. Unless a fair number of our boys are at the top of their game it may not be fun to watch...again..... Griffen, Murphy, BOYD, and someone in the forward half please play blinders!

[whythelongface]

I'm REALLY surprised as well...and I like/want Tom in this role! Roberts has form, and match fitness.

Really strange



I would say with the selection of Williams that it would be based on experience, rather than have a 2nd gamer come in. Match fitness (apart from injury) is the concern with Williams - selected as FF. Wonder if he will spend most of the game down there and pinch hit in the ruck for 5 or so minutes a qtr.

Great to see Hrovat selected as well.

[LostDoggy]

Really like Hrovats highlights from Willy last week. Looks like a player who really gets involved, and a lovely kick.

Me too. Good luck to young Hrovat, hope he enjoys the experience!

As for Tom Williams, I am a little concerned about this selection and his lack of game time - then again I don't think there will ever be a game where I'm not worried about Tom getting to the final siren uninjured. Good luck Tom and welcome back!

[whythelongface]

Is Nathan's name Hrovat or Hvorat? The team announcement email has him as Hvorat. I actually thought it was Hrovat.

[AndrewP6]

Is Nathan's name Hrovat or Hvorat? The team announcement email has him as Hvorat. I actually thought it was Hrovat.

You're right.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Boyd's lucky.

[bulldogtragic]

Would have rather had Body take a spell than Cross. But guess you can't do that with the captain,
Yep.

[boydogs]

Bit surprised with Cross & the number of posters saying his omission was justified on his output. Playing the kids could be argued, but I thought he was still giving more than Smith/Wallis/Stevens.

[jeemak]

It is a sad day when the first realisations of a club champion's demise are experienced. I'm not happy to see Cross dropped, he's been a wonderful servant to our club and has always been an absolute credit to himself. But as another poster said, the game waits for no man.

Congratulations to Hrovat, let's hope he has a wonderful career with the Bulldogs. As for Tommy, I don't think match fitness is something I can worry about as far as he's concerned.

Really interesting to see how this week shapes up.

[Remi Moses]

Bit surprised with Cross & the number of posters saying his omission was justified on his output. Playing the kids could be argued, but I thought he was still giving more than Smith/Wallis/Stevens.

If Crossy's output is equal to those you mentioned the chances are in a rebuilding phase the older player will get dropped.

[ratsmac]

Cross has been a champion for the bulldogs is unlucky to lose his spot. We are in desperate need of some leg speed and poor old crossy has nothing to bring to the table. We are all about rebuilding and blooding the Kids must be paramount.

Good luck to Hrovat

[Scorlibo]

Bit surprised with Cross & the number of posters saying his omission was justified on his output. Playing the kids could be argued, but I thought he was still giving more than Smith/Wallis/Stevens.

I agree. I'm a big fan of Crossy's and don't believe he's decreased his output as markedly as some on here would have you believe.

Here's what I posted in another thread:



Not many would argue that Cross over the last 5-10 years has been one of our best players.

His disposal average in 2010: 26
First 6 games of 2013: 23

Supercoach 2010: 114
Supercoach 2013: 92

Player score contribution 2010-2011 (AFL Player Rating): ~425 (5th at the club)
Player score contribution 2012-2013: 400 (6th at the club)

That's 3 measures, each better than the last, that suggest Crossy's declined in output, but not by that much. If this is true, and the collective opinion on woof is that he was one of our very best players a few years ago, then it has to hold true that he remains a very good player?

[jeemak]

Not this again!

Could it just be that subjective reasoning isn't valuable in itself, just like stats themselves aren't?

The stats you've shown demonstrate a very clear decrease in Cross' output. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact he's contributed in scoring involvements highly could easily be rationalised by the fact he wins a lot of the ball, and as such, should be rating highly in that area albeit at a lower rate than he has done in previous seasons (not to mention, he had what seemed to be a productive 2012).

Are you able to tell us what you've seen from Daniel Cross, without referring to stats? I've declared my bias, as have others. Are you able to do the same?

[boydogs]

Are you able to tell us what you've seen from Daniel Cross, without referring to stats? I've declared my bias, as have others. Are you able to do the same?

Stats are the evidence supporting a claim. I could say to you "Cross wins more of the ball", "Cross wins more clearances" or "Cross gets more contested possessions", but unless I can support that with stats then it has no factual basis.

I reckon St Kilda would be pretty happy seeing his name in the omissions.