Pack your bags McCartney...

[Remi Moses]

Will probably get well beaten next week but that is because we are playing a premiership contender. Macca's job by no means will come under threat and I see him continuing on.

We'll get beaten, but logically and putting things into perspective they'll beat us.

[Eastdog]

We'll get beaten, but logically and putting things into perspective they'll beat us.

It's just because we don't have the quality. I don't reckon will get thrashed like some think we might.

[FrediKanoute]

I haven't questioned that.

I repeat, when we beat a decent side at or near full strength then we will have something to get excited about. Fair enough isn't it?

To some degree I agree. Yep beating teams who we should beat and teams who have significant outs doesn't mean its time to put the Dom Perignon on ice in anticipation of a late tilt at the finals.

What we should be encouraged by though is the style of play we have begun to show, the development of our younger guys and the fading of our seasoned campaigners. With guys like LIbba, Wally, grant, Jones, Dickson, Talia and Hunter stepping forward we are seeing the load being shared more with our veterans providing cream. I honestly believe if we play like this we can win 4 of out next 5 games. We probably wont because we will no doubt relapse, but if nothing else this run of 3 games has given an indication of the level we need and can operate at.

No need to pull the trigger on Macca just yet.

[Ghost Dog]

An experienced side will be able to will themselves to the post, despite injuries.
An inexperienced side will capitulate when the heat is on them.

For those that feel we have not improved since the Melbourne game, I'd say you would have picked West Coast by a goal or two. Correct?

[LostDoggy]

I think Melbourne stunned us, and the week after against GWS the confidence was down.
May have read too much into those results. Gotta find the balance when working out where we're at.
Absolutely. If we're not to get overly excited about a win, we shouldn't get overly excited about a loss either.

I will concede we are improving when we beat a decent side at or near full strength.


When we beat a decent side at full strength then we will have something to really get excited about. that's my point


I haven't questioned that.

I repeat, when we beat a decent side at or near full strength then we will have something to get excited about. Fair enough isn't it?

Yep, pretty sure you've made your point. Pretty sure the rest of us are telling you that it may not be as important as you believe, and that despite not thrashing Hawthorn by 10 goals we just may be improving, but please, don't let my post be a catalyst for another “we need to beat a side at full strength” post.

[The Doctor]

Since the Melbourne game do you think the side has improved?

excluding gws, yes

[The Doctor]

Yep, pretty sure you've made your point. Pretty sure the rest of us are telling you that it may not be as important as you believe, and that despite not thrashing Hawthorn by 10 goals we just may be improving, but please, don't let my post be a catalyst for another “we need to beat a side at full strength” post.

I'm glad someone here can see my point!

[Sedat]

This thread was an ill considered worded thread to start with and to think that some supporters are not excited about our improved current form is staggering to me.
Up until 3 weeks ago, our form and our playing style was understandably a major concern for some of us. We moved the ball at a snail's pace, we struggled to cobble together semi-decent scores, we were unable to stem the flow against opposition run-ons.

We have improved immeasurably since the GWS game with our ball movement and our defensive work when we don't have the ball. It doesn't take away from the concerns some of us had 3 weeks ago, but conversely it is very encouraging to see the transformation in our playing style over the last 3 weeks.

[Ozza]

One of the most encourgaing signs is that fringe players are sent back to Willy for not one week and back in - but several weeks to address issues with their game - and then when they have been brought back in - they have been contributors for the side.

Its appears a sustainable way to coach players, far more than just flipping the fringe players - in for one, out for one etc. We've seen this with Tutt, Wallis, Addison & Grant in particular - even Picken went down for 2-3 weeks before coming back in for a specific role. We are getting more out of these fringe type players ('fringe' meaning on the edge of best 22 at this stage in their careers).

The management of the 1st year players appears to have been good. The 4 that have playerd (Prudden the only to miss due to injury) have all shown plenty. And also been rested appropriately.

[Mofra]

I'm still staggered that supporters who thought the "crack in" mantra last year was the be all and end all of the coaching strategy, and that there would not be a progressive plan to develop the side. Absolutely staggered.

Of course we are going to improve as kids gain experience and our run and spread starts to become more of a focus, now that team non-negotiables are set. I'm more pleased with the fact that we have been able to withstand opposition teams putting us under pressure and the team fighting it's way back, including he coaching moves that facilitate this.

[ledge]

We have the go getters now we need the outside runners who can deliver , I believe Tutt is one who is ear marked for this and so is Macrae, bringing Tutt in has forced opposition to watch out for him on the outside , even if his game was not great he is at least presenting an option outside.
He will probably be in the Eagleton style which all clubs need.
He looks dangerous and I thought he kept going hard, he probably still feels he doesn't quite belong but I think it will come

[bornadog]

I'm still staggered that supporters who thought the "crack in" mantra last year was the be all and end all of the coaching strategy, and that there would not be a progressive plan to develop the side. Absolutely staggered.

I will tell you why there has been the doubters. Supporters were frustrated that we went from an experienced coach, who had little resources in the football department to a coach who is in his fifties, never played the game at the highest level, has never coached at senior level and seemingly no idea how to coach on match day and continually used the words "crack in" at every press conference and communication with supporters. Supporters were also pissed off with getting flogged by 60 points every week for the second half of last year.

Fast forward 18 months and Macca has also learnt the caper, is starting to get some of his match ups right and getting use to being an AFL Senior coach as he also gains experience as do the young players.

You can say what you want, but the jury is still out. I have said all along, we have appointed him, he has a three year contract, so lets see how Macca goes by the end of the contract before we start calling for his head.

[Mofra]

I will tell you why there has been the doubters. Supporters were frustrated that we went from an experienced coach, who had little resources in the football department to a coach who is in his fifties, never played the game at the highest level, has never coached at senior level and seemingly no idea how to coach on match day and continually used the words "crack in" at every press conference and communication with supporters. Supporters were also pissed off with getting flogged by 60 points every week for the second half of last year.
I think you misunderstand my post.
I'm not havign a go at doubters, simply those who thought McCartney would do nothing but preach "crack in" for 3 years.
There are a few posters who formerly posted here who seem to fit into that camp.

Nobody likes losing, but short-termism has been an issue for us as far as I can remember ("you're not a washed up full forward until you've played full forward for Footscray") and some of the criticism McCartney copped last year smacked of it.

[Greystache]

I'm still staggered that supporters who thought the "crack in" mantra last year was the be all and end all of the coaching strategy, and that there would not be a progressive plan to develop the side. Absolutely staggered.

It was strange, but sadly predictable.

You have been very vocal in your belief about it all being part of a multi-layered plan and you are being proven correct.

[bulldogtragic]

I will pay credit where it's due... Well done BMac.

To put thing into context, last year, it was not that we lost the last half of last year, it was 'how'.

This year was all about development. I don't think any one of us would have banked on more than 5 wins, so we are about the mark. I can't speak for others, but my criticism of BMac was not personal or based on other issues other than questioning some of his decision making. It was painfully obvious to me (hence why I commented) that things were not working for BMac. It was not losing to teams, it was 'how'. I.e. the performance at GCS was horrid, as was Melbourne and the worst team since University nearly beat us 4 weeks ago. So to explain my position, I couldn't see where maintaining the status quo was going to improve us. Each week in his 'Maccas Message', it was "everything is fine, we just weren't brave enough against Melbourne etc". I couldn't see from that rhetoric how he would make serious changes. I was wrong, happy to admit it!

* so my issue 3 weeks ago was maintaining the status quo would doom us. That is still true too!

BMac has drastically changed things in the past 3 weeks. This is not maintaining the status quo...

Firstly, Ayce Cordy forced his hand and demanded he be dropped (as did Markovic). To BMac's credit he did it. Further to BMac's credit he promoted one of the most talented players on our list.

Grant is averaging 17 touches, 6 marks, a goal, 2 inside 50's and two goal assists. This extra dimension had allowed BMac the luxury of using Bobby down back.

Bob is a freak a setting up play and his skill wih kick in has addressed this major deficiency in our back half.

The extra skill and experience down back has allowed for the HBF-Cooney experiment to cease. Since spending more time in the guts, Coons is bck to his best and impacting games.

Wallis was having an OK year without starring. The move to tagging has been a positive. He has lock down skills, but can still hurt on the counter attack. Great lateral thinking!

Gia as the permanent sub was short sighted. A waste of a month of footy, he has shown he is our best forward and now he impacts 90-120 minutes, not 30.

Game style. Over the last few weeks, especially on the weekend, we seemed to have a more multi-dimensional gameplan. We average 128 handball receives in 2013, on the weekend we had 102 to half time. This must surely be a tweak to the gameplan. More outside run.


So I standby being critical of BMac's decision making up until 4 weeks ago. This resurgence has not been by persisting with th status quo, it's been based on key personnel and structural change.

Ayce - Grant
Marko - Gia starting (subs like Hrovat, Hunter & Macrae)
Bobby down back, setting up and kicking in
Coondog back into the middle impacting the game
Wallis to tagging and counter attack
More outside run


So BMac deserves a serious pat on the back, he had made some serious changes and our fortunes have change with them. But I repeat, he has made changes. Many posters on WOOF were critical, so was I. I (and others) wanted Ayce out, Grant in, Gia starting, Marko out for a pup, Coons back to the middle, Booby kicking out and some focus on outside run to go ith manic contested ball winning. That doesn't make me anything other than a member who saw an alternate path.

So I am pumped that the rhetoric of the 'Maccas Message' was not matched by his desire to review and amend key personnel and structural decisions. People who questioned him on his decision making were right. But these same people, myself included, should also acknowledge his recent decision making has been very good.

The team has backed up three good games, including one win. Well done Brendan.

(P.s. - I'm still a little concerned on his match day tactics, and 3 top 8 teams have senior assistants who are proven match day coaches. I don't see giving this opportunity to Macca is a bad thing.)

[Bulldog4life]

Up until 3 weeks ago, our form and our playing style was understandably a major concern for some of us. We moved the ball at a snail's pace, we struggled to cobble together semi-decent scores, we were unable to stem the flow against opposition run-ons.

We have improved immeasurably since the GWS game with our ball movement and our defensive work when we don't have the ball. It doesn't take away from the concerns some of us had 3 weeks ago, but conversely it is very encouraging to see the transformation in our playing style over the last 3 weeks.

All I am talking about Sedat is "our current" form. I am not saying enjoying our form three weeks ago. But god if you...not you Seadat but in general... can't enjoy the win and get excited about our form in the last couple of weeks why the heck would you bother following the team.

[Doc26]

I will pay credit where it's due... Well done BMac.

BMac has drastically changed things in the past 3 weeks. This is not maintaining the status quo...

So I standby being critical of BMac's decision making up until 4 weeks ago. This resurgence has not been by persisting with th status quo, it's been based on key personnel and structural change.


So BMac deserves a serious pat on the back, he had made some serious changes and our fortunes have change with them. But I repeat, he has made changes. Many posters on WOOF were critical, so was I. I (and others) wanted Ayce out, Grant in, Gia starting, Marko out for a pup, Coons back to the middle, Booby kicking out and some focus on outside run to go ith manic contested ball winning. That doesn't make me anything other than a member who saw an alternate path.

So I am pumped that the rhetoric of the 'Maccas Message' was not matched by his desire to review and amend key personnel and structural decisions. People who questioned him on his decision making were right. But these same people, myself included, should also acknowledge his recent decision making has been very good.

The team has backed up three good games, including one win. Well done Brendan.

(P.s. - I'm still a little concerned on his match day tactics, and 3 top 8 teams have senior assistants who are proven match day coaches. I don't see giving this opportunity to Macca is a bad thing.)

I would suspect that Brendan's message to you would go along the lines that we are still a young developing team who are gradually learning and buying into the message and with that will come steady progression. He did afterall suggest very early on that observing the fruits of our development will not come until the latter part of this season, as is starting to show now. I suspect there will continue to be troughs through this phase and that we will all need continued patience.

Bulldogtragic, although you're giving him a somewhat backhanded compliment for apparently correcting the errors of his ways with personnel and structure, I just feel you're selling his development plan a bit short by stating
This resurgence has not been by persisting with the status quo, it's been based on key personnel and structural change.

My personal view is that what we are seeing more recently has as much if not more to do with what was expected through the development phase and the re-education of the list to a new message. Whilst I would suggest that Brendan is also learning the match day caper as he goes, structure and personnel change in this case has more to do with where each player is at in this new journey.

[bulldogtragic]

I would suspect that Brendan's message to you would go along the lines that we are still a young developing team who are gradually learning and buying into the message and with that will come steady progression. He did afterall suggest very early on that observing the fruits of our development will not come until the latter part of this season, as is starting to show now. I suspect there will continue to be troughs through this phase and that we will all need continued patience.

Bulldogtragic, although your'e giving him a somewhat backhanded compliment for apparently correcting the errors of his ways with personnel and structure, I just feel you're selling his development plan a bit short by stating

My personal view is that what we are seeing more recently has as much if not more to do with what was expected through the development phase and the re-education of the list to a new message.
There is nothing backhanded about it. IMO he made a few poor decisions, thus I criticised them. IMO he has made some very good decisions, thus I acknowledged them. I'm more than happy to give my opinion, but if I'm proven wrong, I'm the first to admit it too.

IMO, the difference between the Melbourne & GWS games and the last 3 weeks is not simply another 3 weeks of development. Things are considerably different, both in personnel and in structure. And that improvement comes down to BMac's decision making over the last few weeks.

[LongWait]

Insider knowledge tells me - he was lucky to win a premiership, not rated by other coaches and those in the know. Just what I have been told, otherwise I wouldn't know from an outsiders point of view.

So the entire board of one of the most successful clubs of the last 25 years has no clue that their Premiership coach is a complete dud?

[bulldogtragic]

I.e. - Grant is averaging 1.7 goals and 2 goal assists. Gia starting and the sub at least 2 goals more per game in goals and goal assists.

That's an improvement of more than 5 goals a game from 6+ weeks go. Plus a resurgent Cooney, Wallis and defensive general in Bob. That's a whole field improvement. That's not extra development, that's intelligent leadership. Yes we are developing, but the immediate improvement is much more than development.

[bornadog]

I.e. - Grant is averaging 1.7 goals and 2 goal assists. Gia starting and the sub at least 2 goals more per game in goals and goal assists.

That's an improvement of more than 5 goals a game from 6+ weeks go. Plus a resurgent Cooney, Wallis and defensive general in Bob. That's a whole field improvement. That's not extra development, that's intelligent leadership. Yes we are developing, but the immediate improvement is much more than development.

Lets not forget that we played West Coast who fielded a team younger than us and with less games experience on the weekend. We have a long long long way to go.

[bulldogtragic]

Lets not forget that we played West Coast who fielded a team younger than us and with less games experience on the weekend. We have a long long long way to go.
Couldn't agree more BAD.

One good rain does not break the drought. But from my own personal sense of 'fairness', I'll give a slap (as well as a sledge) when it's deserved. I still have reservations and were coming from near rock bottom, but the indicators are now pointing the right way. Important to finish off the rest of the year.

[Doc26]

I.e. - Grant is averaging 1.7 goals and 2 goal assists. Gia starting and the sub at least 2 goals more per game in goals and goal assists.

That's an improvement of more than 5 goals a game from 6+ weeks go. Plus a resurgent Cooney, Wallis and defensive general in Bob. That's a whole field improvement. That's not extra development, that's intelligent leadership. Yes we are developing, but the immediate improvement is much more than development.

But you're referring to personnel and structural changes in isolation to Brendan's development agenda as if they are unrelated. For example, can you not consider the possibility that Grant's inclusion was in part based on timing, that the MC had seen the necessary shift in him with what they have been pushing him to deliver on, and not an oversight on the MC's behalf. Gia starting, is not necessarily an acknowledgement of an error by the MC. Many of us have seen the decision as inspired. Getting good development / experience into the kids in the early part of the season, then resting them. As the season has progressed their bodies must now be managed more closely to not overwork them. My point is that whilst we're young and developing and that many have also had to be re-educated that at times this will come at the cost of what might appear to be the best structure or personnel on a given day.

[Go_Dogs]

I.e. - Grant is averaging 1.7 goals and 2 goal assists. Gia starting and the sub at least 2 goals more per game in goals and goal assists.

That's an improvement of more than 5 goals a game from 6+ weeks go. Plus a resurgent Cooney, Wallis and defensive general in Bob. That's a whole field improvement. That's not extra development, that's intelligent leadership. Yes we are developing, but the immediate improvement is much more than development.

I see what you're saying but I tend to think there has been some method to the madness in Macca wanting to deliver longer term outcomes and being prepared to leave players in certain roles to develop his non-negotiables. We're now seeing a broader focus and due to injuries Wallis has taken over the role Smith played for a few weeks, Cooney is really match fit again so is able to spend more minutes upfield etc. it's very much a combination of factors for mine but as you say, the right moves have been made and our balance is looking much better at the moment.

I'm expecting we'll see greater improvement in our outside game and skills over the coming 18 months too, but hopefully we keep the contested and defensive focus because that's still going to be key in winning finals footy.

I must say one thing that most impressed me yesterday was our ability to convert a centre clearance into a score. If we can continue to get better reward for our hard work we should be increasingly tough to play against.

[G-Mo77]

In short, we are getting there. We're still a fair way off but we all should be able to admit there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Everyone talks about how WCE were missing this guy and that guy. We do have a fair few handy players out ourselves. They should have had enough out there to beat a bottom 4 side, while the win is nothing to crow too loudly about I don't think we should downplay it that much either.

[Sedat]

I'm still staggered that supporters who thought the "crack in" mantra last year was the be all and end all of the coaching strategy, and that there would not be a progressive plan to develop the side. Absolutely staggered.

Of course we are going to improve as kids gain experience and our run and spread starts to become more of a focus, now that team non-negotiables are set. I'm more pleased with the fact that we have been able to withstand opposition teams putting us under pressure and the team fighting it's way back, including he coaching moves that facilitate this.
Agree with this in theory, but there was absolutely no evidence (on the field at least) of any other layers of the game-plan having been implemented until 3 weeks ago. The biggest areas of notable improvement since then have been in our ability to run and spread (our uncontested possession numbers are off the chart in the last 3 weeks) and also in our ability to defend harder for longer and put in strategies to win the ball back off the opposition - both these elements have really clicked in the last 3 weeks and it has been very encouraging to see. And neither of them have come at the expense of our contested ball and clearance work, which continues to remain at a high standard.

I think having a more settled line-up has definitely helped in the last 3 weeks. Not so many unforced changes week to week and more continuity in playing personnel as a result. I also think BMac has started to influence game day with some of his positional moves both before and during matches.

[Mofra]

Agree with this in theory, but there was absolutely no evidence (on the field at least) of any other layers of the game-plan having been implemented until 3 weeks ago.
We can agree to disagree on this point, but I like to think most Bulldog fans understood that B Mac was building some basic non-negotiables before he moved on with some of the more "advanced" coaching.
Our ball movement against Brisbane & Freo at the start of the year seemed noticeably cleaner than 2012 but that could be because a tired rabble finished 2012 and rounds 1 & 2 we were (like all teams) relatively fresh.

[stefoid]

Agree with this in theory, but there was absolutely no evidence (on the field at least) of any other layers of the game-plan having been implemented until 3 weeks ago. The biggest areas of notable improvement since then have been in our ability to run and spread (our uncontested possession numbers are off the chart in the last 3 weeks) and also in our ability to defend harder for longer and put in strategies to win the ball back off the opposition - both these elements have really clicked in the last 3 weeks and it has been very encouraging to see. And neither of them have come at the expense of our contested ball and clearance work, which continues to remain at a high standard.

I think having a more settled line-up has definitely helped in the last 3 weeks. Not so many unforced changes week to week and more continuity in playing personnel as a result. I also think BMac has started to influence game day with some of his positional moves both before and during matches.

Isnt there a saying that the best defence is a good offence?

Defence is fine, but you have to keep the opposition honest by at least threatening to score.

[1eyedog]

We can agree to disagree on this point, but I like to think most Bulldog fans understood that B Mac was building some basic non-negotiables before he moved on with some of the more "advanced" coaching.
Our ball movement against Brisbane & Freo at the start of the year seemed noticeably cleaner than 2012 but that could be because a tired rabble finished 2012 and rounds 1 & 2 we were (like all teams) relatively fresh.

I always hoped that this was the case and I stayed true to the cause but I had serious doubts that our focus on contested ball was the right approach (considering their was a distinct swing from this across the AFL from the end of last season) and I honestly thought that Macca may have missed the boat. Seeing the Hawks beat the Swans in contested ball but lose the Grand final last year only compounded this fear to be honest.

It's been great to see us move the ball better over the last month and clearly the coaching staff have moved into a new phase of the game plan. It now appears that our ability to win contested ball is a great foundation to build a number of new skill sets around. I can't wait until we sharpen up our disposal efficiency for instance.

What's eeven more exciting is that the players have bought into it and this is the best indication that a coach is on the right track IMO. The way the players are supporting each other and getting around each other is reminiscient of a pack mentality and we need to operate as a pack if we are going to challenge the GCS and other contendors in 2-3 years time.

[Mofra]

What's eeven more exciting is that the players have bought into it and this is the best indication that a coach is on the right track IMO. The way the players are supporting each other and getting around each other is reminiscient of a pack mentality and we need to operate as a pack if we are going to challenge the GCS and other contendors in 2-3 years time.
It was noted on the other thread how stark the contrast was between our players getting around Grant for providing a contest, and Josh Hill being forced to play solitaire when he kicked two of his goals.

[Sedat]

We can agree to disagree on this point, but I like to think most Bulldog fans understood that B Mac was building some basic non-negotiables before he moved on with some of the more "advanced" coaching.
Our ball movement against Brisbane & Freo at the start of the year seemed noticeably cleaner than 2012 but that could be because a tired rabble finished 2012 and rounds 1 & 2 we were (like all teams) relatively fresh.
I reckon both those games had more of a 'fresh new year' influence. The Brisbane game especially was a virtual practice match against an opponent clearly not switched on for the start of the real season. After these two games we reverted to 2012 type against Richmond, a game that we were lucky not to lose by 20 goals save for Richmond's terrible conversion. We also got pummelled by Adelaide in the wet. Our win against St Kilda was shown to be against a team in decline, and the Port win was in unique conditions that we have great experience in over the past 10 years having only lost twice in Darwin in that time. So yes, up to and including the GWS game the method of our play looked very similar for most of this year as it did last year - that is strong emphasis on winning contested possessions and clearances, and very slow, stilted, stagnant ball movement, as well as conceding huge amount of goals from turnovers, with our inability to recover possession when it was lost.

To be honest we have looked like a completely different team in the last 3 weeks - our ball movement is strikingly quicker, and our fierce pressure on the opposition is preventing easy turnover goals going the other way. We seem to be structuring up to prevent shotgun football going the other way. Obviously the MC has been working hard with the playing group in refining these elements - they don't just happen overnight - but the transformation has been stark and very welcome indeed.

[GVGjr]

I will tell you why there has been the doubters. Supporters were frustrated that we went from an experienced coach, who had little resources in the football department to a coach who is in his fifties, never played the game at the highest level, has never coached at senior level and seemingly no idea how to coach on match day and continually used the words "crack in" at every press conference and communication with supporters. Supporters were also pissed off with getting flogged by 60 points every week for the second half of last year.



This intrigues me. The focus is on McCartney yet:

Why has the finger been pointed at the coach rather than the club for hiring him?
Why hasn't Chris Grant been placed under the same scrutiny from his decision on the appointment?
Why is the term 'crack in' harder to swallow from a coach than 'pleasing' 'pleasing' 'pleasing' is from another?
Why don't some supporters look back to the state of the list McCartney inherited and acknowledge that this is a significant factor? (Some do, most don't)
Why was nearly every loss in 2011 blamed on the draw, 6 day breaks and injuries but not acknowledged 12 months later as a contributing factor? (We played a very young list in the 2nd half of 2012)

We can fire away questions like this all day which is a waste of time and energy and has been done to death but the reality is that coaches move on. We should acknowledge their efforts, embrace the replacement and give them time to implement their strategy. It shouldn't be about a popularity contest or for new coach to live under the shadow of the old coach.

[LostDoggy]

... Why hasn't Chris Grant been placed under the same scrutiny from his decision on the appointment? ...

I've remained a fence sitter about the 'should he stay/should he go' debate. I haven't enjoyed the heavy losses but as I don't know enough about the finer points of footy could not form a clear idea of whether this was because of the new coach or other factors or a combination. I have however always trusted that a decision in which Chris Grant was involved (coach appointment in this case) would have to be a positive one. Mr Grant is someone who cares a great deal about this Club I imagine. I'm therefore prepared to sit back and see how we go for the rest of this season and next year. I've loved the last three games, even though two were losses, and trust those presently in charge know what they're doing. I also enjoy the coach's weekly message - I like calm and steady.

PS - I also enjoy reading everyone's opinion on this topic, it's stayed pretty civilised.

[LostDoggy]

This intrigues me. The focus is on McCartney yet:

Why has the finger been pointed at the coach rather than the club for hiring him?
Why hasn't Chris Grant been placed under the same scrutiny from his decision on the appointment?
Why is the term 'crack in' harder to swallow from a coach than 'pleasing' 'pleasing' 'pleasing' is from another?
Why don't some supporters look back to the state of the list McCartney inherited and acknowledge that this is a significant factor? (Some do, most don't)
Why was nearly every loss in 2011 blamed on the draw, 6 day breaks and injuries but not acknowledged 12 months later as a contributing factor? (We played a very young list in the 2nd half of 2012)

We can fire away questions like this all day which is a waste of time and energy and has been done to death but the reality is that coaches move on. We should acknowledge their efforts, embrace the replacement and give them time to implement their strategy. It shouldn't be about a popularity contest or for new coach to live under the shadow of the old coach.

There you go, GVGJR, confusing the issue with rationality. :D

[anfo27]

Give this man a contract extension!!!

Has done an amazing job with this group of players & should be rewarded. Has had many many many many knockers since day dot but even these people can conceded he has done a super job.

[Bulldog4life]

Give this man a contract extension!!!

Has done an amazing job with this group of players & should be rewarded. Has had many many many many knockers since day dot but even these people can conceded he has done a super job.

I would have liked to see Cowshed say this.:rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

Can we now close this thread?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can we now close this thread?

Can we go one better and delete it? ;)

[The Doctor]

Can we go one better and delete it? ;)

No!

It's easy to get carried away and we all love a good win but a few weeks ago we were beaten by Melbourne and almost beaten by a schoolboy GWS team.

Form can fluctuate very quickly.

We have seen some big fluctuations under the Macca regime. Too early to be calling for contract extensions after all we are 6 wins & 13 losses on the back of a poor year last year. However I love the win today. Hope we can continue with this for the remainder of the season. A few more wins will build a stronger case for an contract extension.

[jeemak]

Doc, do you reckon we've improved?

[The Doctor]

Doc, do you reckon we've improved?

for sure we have.

[LostDoggy]

If the board don't extend his contract I might put together a ticket. ;)

[anfo27]

No!

It's easy to get carried away and we all love a good win but a few weeks ago we were beaten by Melbourne and almost beaten by a schoolboy GWS team.

Form can fluctuate very quickly.

We have seen some big fluctuations under the Macca regime. Too early to be calling for contract extensions after all we are 6 wins & 13 losses on the back of a poor year last year. However I love the win today. Hope we can continue with this for the remainder of the season. A few more wins will build a stronger case for an contract extension.

Its not about wins, its about process. Sure its great to see the boys get some reward for effort but i was more impressed & excited with our loss last week than todays win. Sydney are the hardest working team without the footy & we matched them for most of the game.

For too long we haven't made the opposition work for every single possession. Now we have a whole team working as one to get the ball back. I love the fact that we don't give teams easy possessions, i love the fact we are ferocious & i love the fact we have a team full of tough bastards. A lot of people have gone on about our perceived lack of pace but what we lacked was work ethic & Griffen is a great example of that.

Macca has instilled this into the playing group & he has shown we are on the right track. The club needs to show the playing group & coaching staff that they have faith & belief in what macca is doing.

I think he is deserving of a contract extension.

[ledge]

Hey doc I'm even impressed after last weeks bruising encounter as a young side we still did it again this week and won, I
Like to think Sydney's loss was partly because we have them such a hard ferocious game last week , no doubt what so ever we are emerging and improving with every game .

[Happy Days]

Doc I admire your pessimism but c'mon man.

[Ghost Dog]

I think the analysis of the Melboune and GWS games can be done out of context. Injuries, player development and experience all play a factor. The bell shaped curve Doc. You need the bottom of the pendulum to give you enough momentum to swing up.

[KT31]

A week really is a long time in football, let alone a month.
A few weeks ago people were calling for his head and now they are asking for an extension.
IMO we should wait out the season, McCartney certainly has the players "cracking in" and is doing a sterling job with the cattle he has.
Lets not be to hasty, there is no need to rush the decision, and for once lets make a rational decision and not one on emotions.

[GVGjr]

No!

It's easy to get carried away and we all love a good win but a few weeks ago we were beaten by Melbourne and almost beaten by a schoolboy GWS team.

Form can fluctuate very quickly.

We have seen some big fluctuations under the Macca regime. Too early to be calling for contract extensions after all we are 6 wins & 13 losses on the back of a poor year last year. However I love the win today. Hope we can continue with this for the remainder of the season. A few more wins will build a stronger case for an contract extension.

While I agree that talk of a contract extension is premature, I think the real question we should be answering is more around the opening post where Cowshed calls for Macca to be sacked and if there is still any support by the forum members for this?

Are there still any WOOF members saying that we should move him on?
I think there is some members still wanting this given that they are so much more active with their contributions after a loss than a win.

To me, McCartney has met his targets of developing the list, getting the defensive component right with the playing group and getting the players to be more competitive on the field by playing a good modern football style that can take the club forward.

If we compare this year so far to what was going on 12 months back I think the turnaround is massive. This time 12 months back I was wishing for the season to be over but now I can't wait until next week.

We have had a good 2nd half on the season and while 6 wins isn't a huge return it's around around par with the majority of WOOF members expectations at the start of the season.
The big difference of course is the manner in which we are playing and competing.

Macca has done a very good job of developing the younger group despite a number of injuries.

I'm looking a lot deeper than just the win/loss record and to be honest I like what I'm seeing.

[LongWait]

While I agree that talk of a contract extension is premature, I think the real question we should be answering is more around the opening post where Cowshed calls for Macca to be sacked and if there is still any support by the forum members for this?

Are there still any WOOF members saying that we should move him on?
I think there is some members still wanting this given that they are so much more active with their contributions after a loss than a win.

To me, McCartney has met his targets of developing the list, getting the defensive component right with the playing group and getting the players to be more competitive on the field by playing a good modern football style that can take the club forward.

If we compare this year so far to what was going on 12 months back I think the turnaround is massive. This time 12 months back I was wishing for the season to be over but now I can't wait until next week.

We have had a good 2nd half on the season and while 6 wins isn't a huge return it's around around par with the majority of WOOF members expectations at the start of the season.
The big difference of course is the manner in which we are playing and competing.

Macca has done a very good job of developing the younger group despite a number of injuries.

I'm looking a lot deeper than just the win/loss record and to be honest I like what I'm seeing.

I suspect neither Brendan McCartney, nor anyone else on the Board or in management at the club, is remotely concerned about whether McCartney should be moved on or not.

[Hotdog60]

While I agree that talk of a contract extension is premature, I think the real question we should be answering is more around the opening post where Cowshed calls for Macca to be sacked and if there is still any support by the forum members for this?

Are there still any WOOF members saying that we should move him on?
I think there is some members still wanting this given that they are so much more active with their contributions after a loss than a win.

To me, McCartney has met his targets of developing the list, getting the defensive component right with the playing group and getting the players to be more competitive on the field by playing a good modern football style that can take the club forward.

If we compare this year so far to what was going on 12 months back I think the turnaround is massive. This time 12 months back I was wishing for the season to be over but now I can't wait until next week.

We have had a good 2nd half on the season and while 6 wins isn't a huge return it's around around par with the majority of WOOF members expectations at the start of the season.
The big difference of course is the manner in which we are playing and competing.

Macca has done a very good job of developing the younger group despite a number of injuries.

I'm looking a lot deeper than just the win/loss record and to be honest I like what I'm seeing.

Well said GVGjr, I posted awhile back that we needed to let Macca run his contract so he could have the time to show us what he had to offer. I think he is ahead of schedule at this stage of the rebuild and if we finish very strong I hope the membership jumps on board and follows.

[GVGjr]

I suspect neither Brendan McCartney, nor anyone else on the Board or in management at the club, is remotely concerned about whether McCartney should be moved on or not.

100% agreed. McCartney would be under no pressure going into next season. He will be judged on his ability to keep improving the list next year.

[always right]

One question..who amongst us now looks forward to watching the bulldogs play?

Credit to the coaching team. They said we would be significantly better in the second half of the season and they've been true to their word. Some who have been outspokenly critical of the coach previously are now noticeable in their silence.

[LostDoggy]

While I agree that talk of a contract extension is premature, I think the real question we should be answering is more around the opening post where Cowshed calls for Macca to be sacked and if there is still any support by the forum members for this?

Are there still any WOOF members saying that we should move him on?
I think there is some members still wanting this given that they are so much more active with their contributions after a loss than a win.

To me, McCartney has met his targets of developing the list, getting the defensive component right with the playing group and getting the players to be more competitive on the field by playing a good modern football style that can take the club forward.

If we compare this year so far to what was going on 12 months back I think the turnaround is massive. This time 12 months back I was wishing for the season to be over but now I can't wait until next week.

We have had a good 2nd half on the season and while 6 wins isn't a huge return it's around around par with the majority of WOOF members expectations at the start of the season.
The big difference of course is the manner in which we are playing and competing.

Macca has done a very good job of developing the younger group despite a number of injuries.

I'm looking a lot deeper than just the win/loss record and to be honest I like what I'm seeing.

Very well said. The silence of the knockers is deafening, but I'm happy to forgive and forget, just want everybody back on board and behind the club. Macca has unified a list that two years ago looked very fractured, and it's time for fans to unify behind them.

[Sedat]

Very well said. The silence of the knockers is deafening, but I'm happy to forgive and forget, just want everybody back on board and behind the club. Macca has unified a list that two years ago looked very fractured, and it's time for fans to unify behind them.
Hard to be a knocker based on the way we have played and been coached in the last 5 weeks. I was very skeptical of BMac's match day abilities and his long term viability as a seionr coach up to and including the GWS game. But I am more than happy to eat humble pie if the last 5 weeks of performance continues.

Delighted to have been wrong about BMac.

[Ghost Dog]

Don't forget, the Coach is learning too. I liked during the Gold coast game, he admitted he had a bad 5 minutes in the box. He's going to make mistakes and improve as the players do. Some of the criticism of his match day performance in the past may have been entirely warranted, at times.

Generally however, We are lucky to have this coach.

Why? He was at the 1997 Prelim ( I think, or one of the other narrow losses ) and he stated he had never seen supporters so upset, in tears. He seems to have such a strong connection with the identity of the club. That kind of commitment is reassuring to have. Perhaps it's just the way he expresses himself, but it's really encouraging. The players obviously love his style and have responded well.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

One question..who amongst us now looks forward to watching the bulldogs play?

Credit to the coaching team. They said we would be significantly better in the second half of the season and they've been true to their word. Some who have been outspokenly critical of the coach previously are now noticeable in their silence.

and how many teams are now worried that they have to play us? Agree Lantern that Sydney's loss may have partly been because we knackered them. Collingwood should slip us a few grand. Well done Dogs and Bmac.

[Scorlibo]

Why? He was at the 1997 Prelim ( I think, or one of the other narrow losses ) and he stated he had never seen supporters so upset, in tears. He seems to have such a strong connection with the identity of the club. That kind of commitment is reassuring to have. Perhaps it's just the way he expresses himself, but it's really encouraging. The players obviously love his style and have responded well.

When did this bit of info come out, GD? Would love a read if in article form.

[Go_Dogs]

When did this bit of info come out, GD? Would love a read if in article form.

It was around the time of his appointment. Not sure where it was from exactly but remember reading the same thing.

[jeemak]

Hard to be a knocker based on the way we have played and been coached in the last 5 weeks. I was very skeptical of BMac's match day abilities and his long term viability as a seionr coach up to and including the GWS game. But I am more than happy to eat humble pie if the last 5 weeks of performance continues.

Delighted to have been wrong about BMac.

It was perfectly reasonable to question the coach and his ability to affect a successful game plan five weeks ago. It's still reasonable to keep a close eye on how he develops the game plan further, and if we stagnate in this area question his ability to take another step forward.

It should be enough to keep an open mind either way at this stage, and be pleased with what's currently being produced by the players and the MC/coaching team on game day.

I see little value in extending BMac's contract at this point in time.

[Ghost Dog]

When did this bit of info come out, GD? Would love a read if in article form.

IIRC it was a story he told in one of his first speeches for the club. I remember it well because a bunch extremely rude individuals kept talking above him in the background.

[AndrewP6]

Are there still any WOOF members saying that we should move him on?
I think there is some members still wanting this given that they are so much more active with their contributions after a loss than a win.

If we compare this year so far to what was going on 12 months back I think the turnaround is massive. This time 12 months back I was wishing for the season to be over but now I can't wait until next week.

We have had a good 2nd half on the season and while 6 wins isn't a huge return it's around around par with the majority of WOOF members expectations at the start of the season.
The big difference of course is the manner in which we are playing and competing.

Macca has done a very good job of developing the younger group despite a number of injuries.

I'm looking a lot deeper than just the win/loss record and to be honest I like what I'm seeing.

I haven't said much on the issue lately, primarily because I'm not interested in being shot down here when I put forward an opinion that many disagree with (and yes, it does happen)...

Despite the overwhelmingly groundswell of support for this rebirth of the Bulldogs, I'm not clearing the September schedule just yet. Yes, it was great to get the win yesterday, and to be playing a better style of football than we have in quite a while. However some of our forward entry is still dreadful, and we nearly equalled Carlton's clanger count. They were out on their feet, and we ran over them. So, there's still a lot of work to do.

J.Grants turnaround is absolutely astounding, I had him written off. I'll be interested to see how he goes maintaining reasonable form for the last few games. Great to see him impacting games, but the question still has to be asked why it's taken so long for the penny to drop.

On McCartney, I haven't changed my view of him, and our recent form improvement only attests to the fact I believe he's a good development coach - our devdlopment has come up as its what he's best at. I'll put the humble pie in the oven if he can take us to the business end of the season and lead a charge.

[always right]

I haven't said much on the issue lately, primarily because I'm not interested in being shot down here when I put forward an opinion that many disagree with (and yes, it does happen)...

Despite the overwhelmingly groundswell of support for this rebirth of the Bulldogs, I'm not clearing the September schedule just yet. Yes, it was great to get the win yesterday, and to be playing a better style of football than we have in quite a while. However some of our forward entry is still dreadful, and we nearly equalled Carlton's clanger count. They were out on their feet, and we ran over them. So, there's still a lot of work to do.

J.Grants turnaround is absolutely astounding, I had him written off. I'll be interested to see how he goes maintaining reasonable form for the last few games. Great to see him impacting games, but the question still has to be asked why it's taken so long for the penny to drop.

On McCartney, I haven't changed my view of him, and our recent form improvement only attests to the fact I believe he's a good development coach - our devdlopment has come up as its what he's best at. I'll put the humble pie in the oven if he can take us to the business end of the season and lead a charge.

Fair enough......but do you at least concede that they are playing for the coach?

[Ghost Dog]

I haven't said much on the issue lately, primarily because I'm not interested in being shot down here when I put forward an opinion that many disagree with (and yes, it does happen)...

Despite the overwhelmingly groundswell of support for this rebirth of the Bulldogs, I'm not clearing the September schedule just yet. Yes, it was great to get the win yesterday, and to be playing a better style of football than we have in quite a while. However some of our forward entry is still dreadful, and we nearly equalled Carlton's clanger count. They were out on their feet, and we ran over them. So, there's still a lot of work to do.

J.Grants turnaround is absolutely astounding, I had him written off. I'll be interested to see how he goes maintaining reasonable form for the last few games. Great to see him impacting games, but the question still has to be asked why it's taken so long for the penny to drop.

On McCartney, I haven't changed my view of him, and our recent form improvement only attests to the fact I believe he's a good development coach - our devdlopment has come up as its what he's best at. I'll put the humble pie in the oven if he can take us to the business end of the season and lead a charge.

It's excellent that people have a counter view. Otherwise it just turns into a love-in.
What makes you think he can't lead us once we are a fully developed club? His lack of experience? Or you are just saying "wait and see".

[Remi Moses]

People saying they weren't playing for the coach were wrong.
Melbourne with Neeld and Port under Primus were prime examples of this.
My only hope is after we lose a game we don't get the boringly predictable posts on the Coach.
I still would like a senior experienced assistant, but we're not going to see that.
The issue is with teams is the "Buy in" and our players especially the senior players have "Bought in"
Big Big Tick for Brendan

[AndrewP6]

It's excellent that people have a counter view. Otherwise it just turns into a love-in.
What makes you think he can't lead us once we are a fully developed club? His lack of experience? Or you are just saying "wait and see".

Bit of both. Some of the match day moves (or lack of) also.

[AndrewP6]

Fair enough......but do you at least concede that they are playing for the coach?

Yeah I can.

[anfo27]

Bit of both. Some of the match day moves (or lack of) also.

I don't get this bit. There has been a lot of this about the coaching panel. Winning games is not what is most important in a rebuild. We have inexperienced kids learning the caper & how can macca see what these kids are made of if he moves them every time a kid is getting beaten?

If we want these kids to get better then we have to be prepared for them to get beaten at times. Its not about losing a contest but how they respond to adversity.

Once we start climbing the ladder & are genuine top 6 team & moves are not being made, then we can question the coaching panel.

[bornadog]

Instead of closing this thread, lets put it on hold till the last round of 2014 then make up our mind about the coach. I hate supporters calling for the coaches head in advance of their contract (unless its Peter Rhode :D)

[ledge]

Apparently last year our assistant coaches were asking macca why he wasn't making moves and flooding to help out the defence when we were getting smashed by 10 goals every week, his reply was how are they going to learn if you give them the easy way out, they will expect it all the time, he wanted them to learn how to combat it as a back line.

[BulldogBelle]

Apparently last year our assistant coaches were asking macca why he wasn't making moves and flooding to help out the defence when we were getting smashed by 10 goals every week, his reply was how are they going to learn if you give them the easy way out, they will expect it all the time, he wanted them to learn how to combat it as a back line.

That's exactly how Rocket developed (fast-tracked) our defense in 2007. Great stuff!

[LongWait]

Apparently last year our assistant coaches were asking macca why he wasn't making moves and flooding to help out the defence when we were getting smashed by 10 goals every week, his reply was how are they going to learn if you give them the easy way out, they will expect it all the time, he wanted them to learn how to combat it as a back line.

I've heard the same story almost word for word from a club insider. :)

[westdog54]

Apparently last year our assistant coaches were asking macca why he wasn't making moves and flooding to help out the defence when we were getting smashed by 10 goals every week, his reply was how are they going to learn if you give them the easy way out, they will expect it all the time, he wanted them to learn how to combat it as a back line.

Which goes some way to countering the argument about Macca not being a great match day coach during last year. A method to the madness of sorts.

[G-Mo77]

Which goes some way to countering the argument about Macca not being a great match day coach during last year. A method to the madness of sorts.

That's probably the last argument haters have. :)

I think Macca has done a great job so far now he's got to take them that extra yard next year. That question being asked will be answered then.

[westdog54]

It will be all about continuous improvement for the next 3 years or so.

Just as a side bar, a couple of guys I work with have a couple of bets going. A carlton supporter has bet a Doggies supporter:

$200 that the dogs won't make the finals before 2017 and $50 that Carlton will make the 8 this year.

I know who I'm hitting up for a beer in Septbember:D

[LostDoggy]

Don't forget, the Coach is learning too. I liked during the Gold coast game, he admitted he had a bad 5 minutes in the box. He's going to make mistakes and improve as the players do. Some of the criticism of his match day performance in the past may have been entirely warranted, at times.

Generally however, We are lucky to have this coach.

Why? He was at the 1997 Prelim ( I think, or one of the other narrow losses ) and he stated he had never seen supporters so upset, in tears. He seems to have such a strong connection with the identity of the club. That kind of commitment is reassuring to have. Perhaps it's just the way he expresses himself, but it's really encouraging. The players obviously love his style and have responded well.
It was the 2009 prelim, he was there for research as the winner played the Cats in the GF.

and how many teams are now worried that they have to play us? Agree Lantern that Sydney's loss may have partly been because we knackered them. Collingwood should slip us a few grand. Well done Dogs and Bmac.
Careful, mate. Eddie gets touchy on that one…

It will be all about continuous improvement for the next 3 years or so.

Just as a side bar, a couple of guys I work with have a couple of bets going. A carlton supporter has bet a Doggies supporter:

$200 that the dogs won't make the finals before 2017 and $50 that Carlton will make the 8 this year.

I know who I'm hitting up for a beer in Septbember:D
I've a bet with a mate, made in 2007, $1000 that Essendon will win a flag before Carlton. We're both safe for now.

[Maddog37]

A mate of mine bet $1500 the saints would finish above us. He was looking pretty sick on Saturday night:D

[Ozza]

I think discussions around Brendan's coaching have further confirmed for me - that there is just no patience amongst the bulk of footy supporters.

There was always going to be some short term pain - we were told this bluntly as supporters. But we look to be building something sustainable - and it is exciting to watch.

The most impressive aspect of the last few weeks is the way our blokes go about it. They care enough about their team mates to block, to share the footy, tackles, chase and go off their man to help out their team mate. Young players like Roughead, Young, Wallis, Libba, Stevens and Dahlhaus are some of the best examples of this team footy.

[Sedat]

I think discussions around Brendan's coaching have further confirmed for me - that there is just no patience amongst the bulk of footy supporters.

There was always going to be some short term pain - we were told this bluntly as supporters. But we look to be building something sustainable - and it is exciting to watch.

The most impressive aspect of the last few weeks is the way our blokes go about it. They care enough about their team mates to block, to share the footy, tackles, chase and go off their man to help out their team mate. Young players like Roughead, Young, Wallis, Libba, Stevens and Dahlhaus are some of the best examples of this team footy.
I can only speak for myself, but my concerns were based on our slow and stagnant ball movement, which made us predicable to play against and deadest boring to watch. We were almost completely non-competitive for over a full season (from mid 2012 to the GWS game this year) with no discernible improvement in key areas of deficiency, so I understand why some people (myself included) were having their patience stretched. Clearly there has been a tonne of work done in the background on ball movement and quick transition, and it has now clicked into gear on the field over the last 5 weeks. Like I said before, I'm delighted to be wrong about BMac if the quality of our football continues to develop in the same trajectory as it has done in the last 5 weeks.

[Dancin' Douggy]

It's hard to know how much credit you give a coach, or if it's just timing/maturity etc.

But the coming of age of Minson and Griffen bodes well for McCartney as well.

Will has really matured. He is playing with a discipline and focus he lacked in the past.
Gone are the brain fades and ill directed aggression. AA ruckman for sure, and not many would have predicted that.

Griffen now plays like he relishes the responsibility and pressure of being the 'MAN'.

He throws himself into everything with a passion and fire that wasn't there before.

We all knew we had an absolute jet on our hands with Ryan, but now he plays with the authority and insatiability of a true on field leader and champion, in the truest sense of the word.

This observation isn't just over the last few 'golden weeks' either. It's been sustained over the entire season.

If the resurrection of J. Grant continues and lasts, that's 3 big ticks on a player management, nurturing front from me.

[bulldogtragic]

I can only speak for myself, but my concerns were based on our slow and stagnant ball movement, which made us predicable to play against and deadest boring to watch. We were almost completely non-competitive for over a full season (from mid 2012 to the GWS game this year) with no discernible improvement in key areas of deficiency, so I understand why some people (myself included) were having their patience stretched. Clearly there has been a tonne of work done in the background on ball movement and quick transition, and it has now clicked into gear on the field over the last 5 weeks. Like I said before, I'm delighted to be wrong about BMac if the quality of our football continues to develop in the same trajectory as it has done in the last 5 weeks.
Ditto. I personally didnt question my faith over a few weeks, it was 12 full and long months. I'm very happy things are getting good, quite quickly, but a few good games is only the beginning. Lets not get too head of ourselves, the ladder says we have plenty of room for improvement, and our player potential says we can. BMac has my complete and undivided attention again that's for sure.

[Scraggers]

I think discussions around Brendan's coaching have further confirmed for me - that there is just no patience amongst the bulk of footy supporters.

There was always going to be some short term pain - we were told this bluntly as supporters. But we look to be building something sustainable - and it is exciting to watch.

The most impressive aspect of the last few weeks is the way our blokes go about it. They care enough about their team mates to block, to share the footy, tackles, chase and go off their man to help out their team mate. Young players like Roughead, Young, Wallis, Libba, Stevens and Dahlhaus are some of the best examples of this team footy.

I don't expect to play finals footy in 2014 ... I do expect to be there abouts (9th to 12th) Unless of course a lot of things go our way. (another Essendon drugs scandal etc).

The loss to Melbourne hurt the most ... The way we played in the last quarter proved it was a very winnable game.

I am extremely pleased with the way we are playing footy right now. Regardless of the score we play hard, uncompromising footy ... this is what pleases me the most.

Talk of extending Macca's contract are premature ... we need to see how 2014 plays out before doing so.

[Mofra]

Talk of extending Macca's contract are premature ... we need to see how 2014 plays out before doing so.
Look at North Melbourne, 3 year deal to Brad Scott before the start of the season. Pulled the trigger far too early and a lot seems to be riding on their imporvement in 2014.

[w3design]

BMacc's contract must be settled at year end, he must be shown the support from the board beyond 2014 and instill his authority in the club or be moved on (guess not too many want to do so now).

Anyone would've known whats a coach's job like at the final year of contract. No one wants to put our Season 2014 on the line just because constant speculation about coach's future. will do damage to team morale and stability of the club especially at the time we have an upside momentum going.

I always thought the saga surround Mick Malthouse's last year at Collingwood killed their momentum and cost their Premiership.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I don't expect to play finals footy in 2014 ... I do expect to be there abouts (9th to 12th) Unless of course a lot of things go our way. (another Essendon drugs scandal etc).

The loss to Melbourne hurt the most ... The way we played in the last quarter proved it was a very winnable game.

I am extremely pleased with the way we are playing footy right now. Regardless of the score we play hard, uncompromising footy ... this is what pleases me the most.

Talk of extending Macca's contract are premature ... we need to see how 2014 plays out before doing so.
I would be very surprised if Macca doesn't at least get a 12 month extension on his current contract. There is a lot to like about BMcC's coaching not the least being how Roughead Minson Wallis and Grant plus Griffen now in the elite status have all benefited, since he has been at the helm. I am also excited by the vast improvement in recruitment including the likes of Young Stevens Campbell Stringer Hrovat and Hunter.

[bornadog]

I would be very surprised if Macca doesn't at least get a 12 month extension on his current contract. There is a lot to like about BMcC's coaching not the least being how Roughead Minson Wallis and Grant plus Griffen now in the elite status have all benefited, since he has been at the helm. I am also excited by the vast improvement in recruitment including the likes of Young Stevens Campbell Stringer Hrovat and Hunter.

and Macrae

[The Underdog]

I'm as happy with the last 5 weeks as anyone and certainly pleased that it appears as though the plan put in place by the coach seems to be starting to come to fruition. However I see no reason to talk contract extension until at least mid next year. If we continue to develop he'll be extended anyway and if it all goes to shit he'll likely be sacked so there's no point putting ourselves on the hook now if that we're to happen. It can fall apart as quickly as it comes together. Although the base we've built looks strong.

[LongWait]

When the club is sure that it wants McCartney to coach beyond 2014 it will offer him an extension. To not do so would be irresponsible.

My money is on the offer of an extension coming well before the half way point of next season.

[The Pie Man]

He said improvement will come in the 2nd half of 2013... If it doesn't we will be negligent to not look at his position.

Given our form since round 16 (not including falling over the line in Canberra the week before) has been the best it's been in 2 + years, Macca's call of improvement from this point on looks increasingly solid.

Which brings me to this question....how did he know that was going to be the case?

[wimberga]

Given our form since round 16 (not including falling over the line in Canberra the week before) has been the best it's been in 2 + years, Macca's call of improvement from this point on looks increasingly solid.

Which brings me to this question....how did he know that was going to be the case?

can only assume this had something to do with the age/games profile of our list?

[LostDoggy]

Given our form since round 16 (not including falling over the line in Canberra the week before) has been the best it's been in 2 + years, Macca's call of improvement from this point on looks increasingly solid.

Which brings me to this question....how did he know that was going to be the case?

Man with a plan.

[anfo27]

I'd be disappointed if macca was not given an extension before round 1 next year. If the board knows he is the man to take this club to where it belongs then it would be silly to wait mid year.

[LostDoggy]

I'd be disappointed if macca was not given an extension before round 1 next year. If the board knows he is the man to take this club to where it belongs then it would be silly to wait mid year.

Agree. To wait would be mere theatre — there's little chance of him being sacked.

[Dry Rot]

If there's a clean-out of the peptide Bombers coaching staff, would we consider Bomber Thompson in some role?

[jeemak]

If there's a clean-out of the peptide Bombers coaching staff, would we consider Bomber Thompson in some role?

I don't think Thompson will work in football again after he's done with Essendon.

[boydogs]

BMacc's contract must be settled at year end, he must be shown the support from the board beyond 2014 and instill his authority in the club or be moved on (guess not too many want to do so now).

Anyone would've known whats a coach's job like at the final year of contract. No one wants to put our Season 2014 on the line just because constant speculation about coach's future. will do damage to team morale and stability of the club especially at the time we have an upside momentum going.

I always thought the saga surround Mick Malthouse's last year at Collingwood killed their momentum and cost their Premiership.

Ask North how re-signing their coach a year only is going

[The Doctor]

On current form we have 3 winnable games against Adelaide, Brisbane & Melbourne. Win those & Macca will be in an almost impregnable position and that should silence the doubters, including myself. This should set us up for further improvement in 2014

As for a contract extension. There is no reason to rush. Even if we Finish well this year what if we have a similar first half of the year in 2014 as we did this year. If we continue as we have been in recent times he will certainly get not just an extension but a new contract. I reckon the club should decide midway next year.

[Maddog37]

Agree with that. No rush at all.

[bornadog]

On current form we have 3 winnable games against Adelaide, Brisbane & Melbourne. Win those & Macca will be in an almost impregnable position and that should silence the doubters, including myself. This should set us up for further improvement in 2014

As for a contract extension. There is no reason to rush. Even if we Finish well this year what if we have a similar first half of the year in 2014 as we did this year. If we continue as we have been in recent times he will certainly get not just an extension but a new contract. I reckon the club should decide midway next year.


Agree with that. No rush at all.

Ditto

[GVGjr]

The coaches really seem to be getting the message across to the players. They are all pulling in the same direction.

The increase spend in the footy department is certainly paying dividends especially for the younger guys.

[westdog54]

I for one am torn between closing this thread and stickying it. :D

[The Doctor]

I for one am torn between closing this thread and stickying it. :D

why close it?

[Go_Dogs]

The coaches really seem to be getting the message across to the players. They are all pulling in the same direction.

The increase spend in the footy department is certainly paying dividends especially for the younger guys.

Agreed. We're moving in the right direction and I'm sure the Board are very happy with the quick progression we've made over the past few weeks. I know many disagree and I can see the logic in waiting, but I'd like to see the club back Macca in and add a year to his contract at seasons end. Just gives the whole club the added security and a genuine show of faith in someone who is moving us in the right direction.

I really hope we can add Scarlett and Mooney to more permanent coaching roles next year too if the budget allows. We've got some great talent to guide our young players and we've now got to do our best to keep everyone together.

[SonofScray]

Up on L3 around bay 18, post game a handful of families behind us were cheering Macca as he walked around the boundary. I noticed him give the crowd a fist pump which is a rare show of excitement from him but I can see that he really values the fans and what his work can contribute to.

Thought it was pretty cool that people are acknowledging his work openly and enthusiastically like that, given a few months ago they were very critical and surly about him as a coach and person. Which of course they had some right to be, but with it comes the the expectation you get around people who give you their best as well.

[bulldogtragic]

I would like the cheer squad to upgrade him...

"Macca our taskmaster"

Even "Rhode (was) our Mastermind"

[Doc26]

I know many disagree and I can see the logic in waiting, but I'd like to see the club back Macca in and add a year to his contract at seasons end. Just gives the whole club the added security and a genuine show of faith in someone who is moving us in the right direction.

Couldn't agree more Griff.

[Greystache]

Agreed. We're moving in the right direction and I'm sure the Board are very happy with the quick progression we've made over the past few weeks. I know many disagree and I can see the logic in waiting, but I'd like to see the club back Macca in and add a year to his contract at seasons end. Just gives the whole club the added security and a genuine show of faith in someone who is moving us in the right direction.

I can understand the thinking behind this but I'm more inclined to wait till say round 10 and extend him for another 2 years. I'd like to make a decision with a longer period of exposed form and make a longer committment if we're still travelling in the same upward direction.

[Remi Moses]

Wait til next season . Things are progressing well ,and board and coach are on the same page .
As they have from day dot.

[always right]

I can understand the thinking behind this but I'm more inclined to wait till say round 10 and extend him for another 2 years. I'd like to make a decision with a longer period of exposed form and make a longer committment if we're still travelling in the same upward direction.

This is definitely the right approach. Another pre-season and we should expect to see further improvement next year.

[The Underdog]

The problem is that financially we can't afford to be paying out a coach if things go pear shaped. Wait until mid next year, if things continue to curve upwards, then we can extend him for 2. Don't forget he'll also be due a pay rise now too.

[KT31]

There is no need to rush an extension.
Club would be ecstatic with the results at the moment but have time to be totally sure mid way through next season.
Macca does not seem to be one who would half rebuild, get us near a window and then leave for the money.
He seems to have the type of character who wants to see thing through until the end.

[LostDoggy]

The problem is that financially we can't afford to be paying out a coach if things go pear shaped. Wait until mid next year, if things continue to curve upwards, then we can extend him for 2. Don't forget he'll also be due a pay rise now too.

After the past 5 weeks, he can have half of mine.

[LongWait]

There is no need to rush an extension.
Club would be ecstatic with the results at the moment but have time to be totally sure mid way through next season.
Macca does not seem to be one who would half rebuild, get us near a window and then leave for the money.
He seems to have the type of character who wants to see thing through until the end.

I agree with what you've said about Macca but would add that he also seems to be the type who would not easily forgive any sign of the club disrespecting him or taking him for granted.

Surely the club now knows we want him to see this rebuild through to its conclusion, whatever that may be. Extend his contract by two years at season's end (giving him 2014, 2015 and 2016.)

We are kidding ourselves if we think that McCartney isn't the right coach for us and also if we think he will not be an attractive proposition to other clubs.

We'll sign a two year extension for less money now than we will this time next year.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with what you've said about Macca but would add that he also seems to be the type who would not easily forgive any sign of the club disrespecting him or taking him for granted.

Surely the club now knows we want him to see this rebuild through to its conclusion, whatever that may be. Extend his contract by two years at season's end (giving him 2014, 2015 and 2016.)

We are kidding ourselves if we think that McCartney isn't the right coach for us and also if we think he will not be an attractive proposition to other clubs.

We'll sign a two year extension for less money now than we will this time next year.

I agree. If Melbourne haven't spoken to him they all deserve to be shot.

[anfo27]

I agree with what you've said about Macca but would add that he also seems to be the type who would not easily forgive any sign of the club disrespecting him or taking him for granted.

Surely the club now knows we want him to see this rebuild through to its conclusion, whatever that may be. Extend his contract by two years at season's end (giving him 2014, 2015 and 2016.)

We are kidding ourselves if we think that McCartney isn't the right coach for us and also if we think he will not be an attractive proposition to other clubs.

We'll sign a two year extension for less money now than we will this time next year.

Spot on LongWait.

Reading posters thoughts it just seems to me that the majority of posters aren't completely sold on macca & hence want to wait until mid next year. If the club does this then it says to me the club also are not completely sold on macca either.

If the club know he is the man to take this club to its rightful position (on top of course) then they need to show macca they have confidence in him & offer him an extension. Not offering him an extension shows a lack of faith in what macca is doing & that is a big mistake.

Posters mention 'well what if we do poorly next year?'. So what if we do! We are not a contender yet & we're still very young & inexperienced so we are still going to have to deal with inconsistencies with form.

Why wouldn't the club be sold on him? After all they were sold on him enough to offer him a 3 year deal & he has done nothing during this period to prove them otherwise. Get it done PG!!!!!

[The Underdog]

I agree. If Melbourne haven't spoken to him they all deserve to be shot.

He has another year left on his contract, I'm not sure Melbourne can wait that long.

[Ozza]

Just wondering if Brad Hardie has written any further articles about the club since his article in May which can be summarised as - sack the coach, get Mark Williams, clear out the place and fill it with ex-bulldogs players - football department and administration.

[azabob]

Just wondering if Brad Hardie has written any further articles about the club since his article in May which can be summarised as - sack the coach, get Mark Williams, clear out the place and fill it with ex-bulldogs players - football department and administration.

Perhaps him and Dan Lonergan can write one together?

[Greystache]

Just wondering if Brad Hardie has written any further articles about the club since his article in May which can be summarised as - sack the coach, get Mark Williams, clear out the place and fill it with ex-bulldogs players - football department and administration.

I doubt it, he'll likely moved onto another club who's lost a few games in a row like St Kilda. His idea of how to fix them- sack the coach, get Mark Williams, clear out the place and fill it with ex-St Kilda players - football department and administration.

Hardy has no idea, just a loud opinion.

[chef]

Nice to see the 'cracking in' jokes have disappeared too.

[GVGjr]

Nice to see the 'cracking in' jokes have disappeared too.

To be honest we should all wear it as a badge of honor.

[G-Mo77]

Nice to see the 'cracking in' jokes have disappeared too.

Yep. It was pretty tacky stuff.

[chef]

To be honest we should all wear it as a badge of honor.

Looks pretty silly now as 'cracking in' is one of our strengths.

[F'scary]

Nice to see the 'cracking in' jokes have disappeared too.

That is my schtick you are bagging.

And the whole time, I thought we were talking about sex.

[DragzLS1]

Macca, unpack your bags!

[Maddog37]

That is my schtick you are bagging.

And the whole time, I thought we were talking about sex.

Didn't know robots rolled that way.........

[LostDoggy]

We need some “I'm cracking in too!” badges.

[JohnGentStand]

We need some “I'm cracking in too!” badges.

I love it! Next years membership stickers.

[westdog54]

We need some “I'm cracking in too!” badges.

Love it.

#qualityyoungmen

[LostDoggy]

Macca, unpack your bags!

Maybe the mods can change the title of the thread?

[Mofra]

We need some “I'm cracking in too!” badges.
You sir are a genius

[Greystache]

We need some “I'm cracking in too!” badges.

Could be a good season slogan for 2014. "We're cracking in, are you?"

[bulldogtragic]

Thought I'd bump this to see where the MaccaLove is.

I'm not endorsing the title, but this thread lingered as a barometer of MaccaLove.

I mentioned in another thread, I'm personally feeling like 30 games into the Rhode Dynasty. Outside of 6 weeks last year, this dynasty hasn't moved as much forward as I would've hoped by now. Not even close.

[chef]

Nothing to do with Macca this week, the players are the ones who let us down.

[FrediKanoute]

More generally though and aside from this week, its a fair question to ask whether we as a side have built on our strong finish to last season. We finished 2013 with optimism that we were starting to build something. At best I would say this year we have stood still, but we haven't gone forward. Yes we have generally been in games longer and avoided blow outs. The last few weeks though have seen us concede multiple goals and generally not be in the contest. My call is we have not progressed.

[Greystache]

2.5 years in and I still can't work out what we're trying to do. We try to win the ball in the contest and we try to tackle and harass when they have it, everything else seems to be a free-for-all.

The lack of ball movement strategy, forward structure, and the lack of game day awareness of most of our players is a huge concern.

[Cyberdoggie]

We only beat Freo for about 5 minutes in the game, and that was from the point in the third where Bob decided to go long instead of the short and it was probably the only time Freo was caught off guard and we ran the ball through the middle.

Our ball movement is so slow and predictable we can't beat anyone at the moment.

Certainly doesn't help not having anyone who can mark the ball.

[Mofra]

We have a glaring hole in the forward 50.
For most of the game we killed Freo everywhere except the forwardline, where they beat us on the turnover.

[lemmon]

We have a glaring hole in the forward 50.
For most of the game we killed Freo everywhere except the forwardline, where they beat us on the turnover.

I agree but I think we are being seriously unrealistic. Kurt Tippet and Buddy Franklin would struggle in our structure, we give forwards absolutely no space to lead in to and when we do bring it to ground it is so congested there is no time to get a snap off. We desperately need to get our structure right first before we'll see any improvement.

[bornadog]

I'm sick hearing the spin, the crap about how we should be doing this and that, sick of the contested ball focus.

The coach has got us into this position. He has swayed the recruiting staff to go after the same type of player that we already have...slow midfielders who can't kick. Does he teach them anything at training. I don't see it on the field.

What was with our handball tonight...trigger happy handball. It's because he has a team full of players who can't run...all they can do is handball...it's the leading root of most of our problems. I could go on but I won't bore you...we as supporters are already suffering from that pathetic display.

Time to go coach. Make way for the next person.

Funny to read this after a year.

[Remi Moses]

The only thing that should be packed is this thread to Teeny bobber footy( aka big footy)

[anfo27]

Have been a huge macca fan from day 1 & was the first to ask for a contract extension last year. Was excited coming into the new season at the prospect of seeing us take another step but today coming home from the footy is the lowest I've felt for a very long time.
We've seen some improvements on some individual players but on a whole as a team i think we have taken a step back. Its not easy going to the footy these days and watching that. Macca and his coaching group have a lot of work to do.
Not sure there is a team out there that makes kicking goals look harder than us, also don't think there is a team worse than us at kicking goals from turnovers. I just pray that it gets better and not worse as the year goes on.

[Remi Moses]

I agree but I think we are being seriously unrealistic. Kurt Tippet and Buddy Franklin would struggle in our structure, we give forwards absolutely no space to lead in to and when we do bring it to ground it is so congested there is no time to get a snap off. We desperately need to get our structure right first before we'll see any improvement.

Agree, but one glaring thing was after a quick kick after a centre bounce and our forwards were behind and didn't impact.
It's a combination of a few things

[bulldogtragic]

The only thing that should be packed is this thread to Teeny bobber footy( aka big footy)

Maybe you missed the context of the bump. This thread got universally rubbished, then as Macca got some wins many came back to turn it into a positive Macca thread, ergo, it reflected a barometer if you will as to direct love and respect for the coach and his gameplan. Some may still be supportive, some may not. Don't get caught up in the title as a distraction to conversation. But to that end, Macca can't be responsible for every good thing, but not be responsible for any bad thing.

[LostDoggy]

We have a glaring hole in the forward 50.
For most of the game we killed Freo everywhere except the forwardline, where they beat us on the turnover.

Where was Barry tonight? Where was Rawlings? Where was MacDougall? Cookie? Minty? Kingsley? Granty? Gloves Campbell?

Same old story - Beasley to Danny to Barry. Hole in the forward 50. Kick it in and nothing there. That's not McCartney's fault.

[westdog54]

Maybe you missed the context of the bump. This thread got universally rubbished, then as Macca got some wins many came back to turn it into a positive Macca thread, ergo, it reflected a barometer if you will as to direct love and respect for the coach and his gameplan. Some may still be supportive, some may not. Don't get caught up in the title as a distraction to conversation. But to that end, Macca can't be responsible for every good thing, but not be responsible for any bad thing.
BT, you of ask people should know that the bump is dead in the modern game. :)

As the original 'bumper' I totally understand where you are coming from. We are a working forward structure away from bring a very competitive side but we could, bay, should be doing better. Predictable is a good description for us tactically.

[jeemak]

We did a considerable amount right, though unfortunately we didn't have any class in the forward 50m. I can't really blame the coaching panel for the lack of forward class, and I'm not sure Redpath, Campbell or Cordy would have done anything to rectify the issue at this point.

Our players didn't respond to Fremantle's sling out of defence quickly enough and we were subsequently exposed. The coaching panel has to take a bit of blame for this, equally so do the players themselves.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, you of ask people should know that the bump is dead in the modern game. :)

As the original 'bumper' I totally understand where you are coming from. We are a working forward structure away from bring a very competitive side but we could, bay, should be doing better. Predictable is a good description for us tactically.

Nah WD, "Insufficient contact", early plea so I'm under 100 activation points. Still eligible for the best and fairest poster and free to crap on all week! :)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

2.5 years in and I still can't work out what we're trying to do. We try to win the ball in the contest and we try to tackle and harass when they have it, everything else seems to be a free-for-all.

The lack of ball movement strategy, forward structure, and the lack of game day awareness of most of our players is a huge concern.

Exactly my thoughts.

We don't look like we have a system. We simply fight tooth and nail for the ball, win it enough, and then bomb it long and hope we get a goal. When do you ever see us systematically work a ball to the forward line for a goal?

Higgins/Murphy give some rebound off half back, but overall, I have no idea what we are trying to do and like you said Grey, it's been 2.5 years.

[kruder]

I'm happy for people to give their opinion on the coach but the title of the thread is a joke...

We seem to be making the same mistakes week in week out. I think thats the most frustrating thing as a supporter...

Todays game was totally predictable. Macca doesn't think we lack class I totally disagree! We struggle to hit a target 30m away, it then puts pressure on the ball carrier and eventially cause turnover city.

Could someone please remind me the last time we scored a goal coast to coast?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Could someone please remind me the last time we scored a goal coast to coast?

2009?

[bulldogtragic]

I'm happy for people to give their opinion on the coach but the title of the thread is a joke...

We seem to be making the same mistakes week in week out. I think thats the most frustrating thing as a supporter...

Todays game was totally predictable. Macca doesn't think we lack class I totally disagree! We struggle to hit a target 30m away, it then puts pressure on the ball carrier and eventially cause turnover city.

Could someone please remind me the last time we scored a goal coast to coast?

Was there one tonight? I may have missed it as I was catatonic, but I thought a post said so?

[Sedat]

We seem to be making the same mistakes week in week out.
The players or the coaching group, or both?

[Eastdog]

The players or the coaching group, or both?

The responsibility has to come down equally on both the players and coach. It is tending now more to Macca who is in his 3rd season now.

[bornadog]

I'm happy for people to give their opinion on the coach but the title of the thread is a joke...

We seem to be making the same mistakes week in week out. I think thats the most frustrating thing as a supporter...

Todays game was totally predictable. Macca doesn't think we lack class I totally disagree! We struggle to hit a target 30m away, it then puts pressure on the ball carrier and eventially cause turnover city.

Could someone please remind me the last time we scored a goal coast to coast?

today, third quarter

[The Bulldogs Bite]

What is McCartney's contract status - has he been re-signed?

If he hasn't and these results continue, I would be disappointed if we didn't part ways.

[AndrewP6]

What is McCartney's contract status - has he been re-signed?

If he hasn't and these results continue, I would be disappointed if we didn't part ways.

Got an extension last year, incredibly.

[kruder]

The players or the coaching group, or both?

They are all in it together. Our players have no idea how to move the ball on the spread. They constantly handball wide of the mark, chip a kick 5 metres too long, rush a kick due to perceived pressure it then creates more pressure down the line which results in a long bomb down the field to an undersized forward line.

I have another question, can anyone remember a forward leading up at the footy and the midfield lowing their eyes and hitting him up inside 50 ?

[Greystache]

What is McCartney's contract status - has he been re-signed?

If he hasn't and these results continue, I would be disappointed if we didn't part ways.

Added 2 years to his remaining year at the end of last season. He's contracted until the end of 2016.

[Remi Moses]

Maybe you missed the context of the bump. This thread got universally rubbished, then as Macca got some wins many came back to turn it into a positive Macca thread, ergo, it reflected a barometer if you will as to direct love and respect for the coach and his gameplan. Some may still be supportive, some may not. Don't get caught up in the title as a distraction to conversation. But to that end, Macca can't be responsible for every good thing, but not be responsible for any bad thing.

It came up after he hadn't even completed 2 seasons of a rebuild.
Give me strength, it's got big footy all over it.

[Remi Moses]

We did a considerable amount right, though unfortunately we didn't have any class in the forward 50m. I can't really blame the coaching panel for the lack of forward class, and I'm not sure Redpath, Campbell or Cordy would have done anything to rectify the issue at this point.

Our players didn't respond to Fremantle's sling out of defence quickly enough and we were subsequently exposed. The coaching panel has to take a bit of blame for this, equally so do the players themselves.

Dead right. The players and the coach have to take the blame . The disposal into 50 is haphazard to say the least, and the ability to separate from an opponent is non existent .

[Remi Moses]

They are all in it together. Our players have no idea how to move the ball on the spread. They constantly handball wide of the mark, chip a kick 5 metres too long, rush a kick due to perceived pressure it then creates more pressure down the line which results in a long bomb down the field to an undersized forward line.

I have another question, can anyone remember a forward leading up at the footy and the midfield lowing their eyes and hitting him up inside 50 ?
Said the same thing. Our players should be fitted with Blinkers.

[LostDoggy]

Have we had our best side on the park yet?

[lemmon]

Have we had our best side on the park yet?

Has any side? We've done as well with injuries as any side in the comp this year

[LostDoggy]

Has any side? We've done as well with injuries as any side in the comp this year

Key backs and key forwards count for more.

[LostDoggy]

How many games would we have won when Morris and Roughead were out?

Would we have pinched anymore with Grant and Jones?

[westdog54]

How many games would we have won when Morris and Roughead were out?

Would we have pinched anymore with Grant and Jones?

Of all of our defeats the only one I'm prepared to put down to injuries is the Carlton game. The rest of the time we simply weren't good enough.

[LostDoggy]

All the same things were said of Thompson at Kardinia Park.

[westdog54]

All the same things were said of Thompson at Kardinia Park.

Pretty sure Clarkson was the same at Hawthorn.

[Mantis]

Exactly my thoughts.

We don't look like we have a system. We simply fight tooth and nail for the ball, win it enough, and then bomb it long and hope we get a goal. When do you ever see us systematically work a ball to the forward line for a goal?

Higgins/Murphy give some rebound off half back, but overall, I have no idea what we are trying to do and like you said Grey, it's been 2.5 years.

And that's the most disappointing thing.

Besides the last 6 or 7 games of last season I'm yet to see a game plan/ system that involves anything other than winning the contested ball and 'hacking' it forward... Yesterday was almost the tipping point to where a member of 30+ years doesn't want to go and watch his team play anymore.

[Bulldog Joe]

I think it is pretty easy as supporters to feel the gloom associated with defeat.

However, the reality of it is that we are about where we should be on the win/loss scale. I was at the Freo game as the first match I could get too since the Adelaide game.

We were right in the game and controlled large chunks. I know we lack finish at present but Freo (or Ross Lyon coached teams) are hard to score against.

Yes they got us an the break a few times and we gifted them a few when we missed our target and turned it over. They did finish us off but they are a seriously good team and are way ahead with depth of experience.

We are not far off. To compete with them was a very good sign.

We will win next week!!!

[jeemak]

To Round 10 2013:

3 wins (average winning margin 29pts - skewed by 68 point defeat of Brisbane)
7 losses (average losing margin 46pts)

To Round 10 2014:

3 wins (average winning margin 15pts)
7 losses (average losing margin 32pts)


We're not getting pounded like we were last year, and the year before so that's a positive.

Massive four weeks coming up, with games at Etihad against Brisbane, Melbourne and Collingwood, and one against Port at Adelaide Oval. We really need to come out of these two and two as a minimum.

[mighty_west]

To Round 10 2013:

3 wins (average winning margin 29pts - skewed by 68 point defeat of Brisbane)
7 losses (average losing margin 46pts)

To Round 10 2014:

3 wins (average winning margin 15pts)
7 losses (average losing margin 32pts)


We're not getting pounded like we were last year, and the year before so that's a positive.

Massive four weeks coming up, with games at Etihad against Brisbane, Melbourne and Collingwood, and one against Port at Adelaide Oval. We really need to come out of these two and two as a minimum.

We should beat Brissy and Collingwood has come at a good time with a few injuries and Sidebottom will most likely miss with his stray elbow, we have not gone in with a functioning forward line the past few weeks and its hurt us badly, no structure what so ever, how Grant didn't play against Freo is mind boggling to say the least and we have to play at least one of Campbell or Jones to give us some height, hopefully Redpath gets a run at some stage.

[bulldogtragic]

To Round 10 2013:

3 wins (average winning margin 29pts - skewed by 68 point defeat of Brisbane)
7 losses (average losing margin 46pts)

To Round 10 2014:

3 wins (average winning margin 15pts)
7 losses (average losing margin 32pts)


We're not getting pounded like we were last year, and the year before so that's a positive.

Massive four weeks coming up, with games at Etihad against Brisbane, Melbourne and Collingwood, and one against Port at Adelaide Oval. We really need to come out of these two and two as a minimum.

I do really appreciate you doing the work to put that together, so thanks.

As to the numbers though, on this rate of improvement and the improvement of other teams, we will never even get near a grand final. The amount of faith shown by the club in not moving on players, they should have repaid it better than not scoring more, and the defence being not much better.

I don't really see that as 'half full'. But again, thanks for the time you put into getting the numbers together.

[jeemak]

I do really appreciate you doing the work to put that together, so thanks.

As to the numbers though, on this rate of improvement and the improvement of other teams, we will never even get near a grand final. The amount of faith shown by the club in not moving on players, they should have repaid it better than not scoring more, and the defence being not much better.

I don't really see that as 'half full'. But again, thanks for the time you put into getting the numbers together.

Not a problem. Can you admit from just a cursory glance that we have been more competitive in the games we've lost?

I'm not for a second trying to demonstrate that our ball movement is cleaner, our forward structure is more organised and everything is just rosy - it isn't.

We were severely lacking in all of these areas yesterday. I nearly punched the crap out of a steel support beam the second or third time Easton Wood kicked a high mongrel punt towards our forward line, and I think I touched the point of insanity when for the 56th time in the game we handballed the footy three too many times to a stationary target in our forward line rather than taking the option of a short chip kick to a free player. The issues are plain for all to see.

With this in mind, if we can see these as being critical issues then you can be absolutely 100% certain the MC sees these as being critical issues. Unfortunately for them, they're the ones charged with needing to fix them with a playing list that has significant structural holes in it, and is still relatively inexperienced.

[Sedat]

Not a problem. Can you admit from just a cursory glance that we have been more competitive in the games we've lost?
We have been but we should have been as well - our draw in the 1st half of 2013 was much tougher.

[bulldogtragic]

Not a problem. Can you admit from just a cursory glance that we have been more competitive in the games we've lost?

I'm not for a second trying to demonstrate that our ball movement is cleaner, our forward structure is more organised and everything is just rosy - it isn't.

We were severely lacking in all of these areas yesterday. I nearly punched the crap out of a steel support beam the second or third time Easton Wood kicked a high mongrel punt towards our forward line, and I think I touched the point of insanity when for the 56th time in the game we handballed the footy three too many times to a stationary target in our forward line rather than taking the option of a short chip kick to a free player. The issues are plain for all to see.

With this in mind, if we can see these as being critical issues then you can be absolutely 100% certain the MC sees these as being critical issues. Unfortunately for them, they're the ones charged with needing to fix them with a playing list that has significant structural holes in it, and is still relatively inexperienced.

I don't want to piss you off, but I can't admit it. I think that the super ugly game style we are playing this year looks like we are trying not to get badly beaten more so than other thoughts. Seeing what I've seen, I agree that our scores for are down as we have no forward structure. Seeing what I've seen, I would expect teams would score less because at times it looks like Auskick with so many players around the contest and negative style generally. I don't think our defence team is doing any better or worse than last year, they're busting their butts off. The drop in 'against' score is a reflection of the coaches box and the instructions players are given to play good awful footy. If we played a positive style of footy, with our turnover ability, North, GCS etc would have blown us off the park and then the stats would say our 'against' was worse.

[jeemak]

We have been but we should have been as well - our draw in the 1st half of 2013 was much tougher.

I look at the respective draws to this point and don't see a great deal of difference in games I genuinely expected to win. I was bitterly disappointed with our efforts against Carlton and Adelaide this time around, and our lapse against GCS was as bad as I've seen this year.

[jeemak]

I don't want to piss you off, but I can't admit it. I think that the super ugly game style we are playing this year looks like we are trying not to get badly beaten more so than other thoughts. Seeing what I've seen, I agree that our scores for are down as we have no forward structure. Seeing what I've seen, I would expect teams would score less because at times it looks like Auskick with so many players around the contest and negative style generally. I don't think our defence team is doing any better or worse than last year, they're busting their butts off. The drop in 'against' score is a reflection of the coaches box and the instructions players are given to play good awful footy. If we played a positive style of footy, with our turnover ability, North, GCS etc would have blown us off the park and then the stats would say our 'against' was worse.

I couldn't think of anything that would piss me off less than you interpreting numbers differently to the way I interpret them.

On the game style, if we tried to play more openly we'd find ourselves getting pantsed by greater margins. We could try to drum a fluid and skilful style into the players, though they wouldn't be able to execute it as our older players are giving what they can while our younger players haven't developed to the point where they could execute it. Unfortunately we don't have the talent in the 23-28 year old bracket to play that way and until we do we would only be uncompetitive by a greater margin than we currently are.

That's not to say we shouldn't be working on evolving the way we play over time. We most definitely should at all costs however, there needs to be a gradual approach taken.

I agree with you in that we need to cut our losses with some players and get more talent onto our list to develop.

[bulldogtragic]

I couldn't think of anything that would piss me off less than you interpreting numbers differently to the way I interpret them.

On the game style, if we tried to play more openly we'd find ourselves getting pantsed by greater margins. We could try to drum a fluid and skilful style into the players, though they wouldn't be able to execute it as our older players are giving what they can while our younger players haven't developed to the point where they could execute it. Unfortunately we don't have the talent in the 23-28 year old bracket to play that way and until we do we would only be uncompetitive by a greater margin than we currently are.

That's not to say we shouldn't be working on evolving the way we play over time. We most definitely should at all costs however, there needs to be a gradual approach taken.

I agree with you in that we need to cut our losses with some players and get more talent onto our list to develop.

Cool. I'd rather go in with JJ (Howard) Hunter (Gia) Grant (Roberts) Jones (susp, but Williams) (Talia too) with Hrovat, Bonts, Mac, Stringer and Macrae and like the 'Baby Bombers' just tell them to crack in and let destiny happen. It's a little idealistic I know, but playing to not get badly beaten is pointless to me, I can't accept that. What I can easily accept is kids with a licence to play to the limit of their talent and take it from there, even if it's only glimpses. The only people happy with playing not to get badly beaten are coaches, as I can't imagine any of the players thinking "wow, what a great loss today, only 40 points, let's sing the song anyway".

This is the week to do it, give Boyd another week to get over what ails him, send gia to the VFL to play with the likes of Honeychurch who would love Gia working with him, make some tough calls on players, especially Howard, give Morris and Cooney the week off and play our best kids against their best kids, being that they really only have kids now. Wind the kids up all week and let them loose at the GABBA and come what may.

[azabob]

. Wind the kids up all week and let them loose at the GABBA and come what may.

WAH! Don't send em to the GABBA we will lose for sure, but kick a record score in the meantime! :D

[bornadog]

Cool. I'd rather go in with JJ (Howard) Hunter (Gia) Grant (Roberts) Jones (susp, but Williams) (Talia too) with Hrovat, Bonts, Mac, Stringer and Macrae and like the 'Baby Bombers' just tell them to crack in and let destiny happen. It's a little idealistic I know, but playing to not get badly beaten is pointless to me, I can't accept that. What I can easily accept is kids with a licence to play to the limit of their talent and take it from there, even if it's only glimpses. The only people happy with playing not to get badly beaten are coaches, as I can't imagine any of the players thinking "wow, what a great loss today, only 40 points, let's sing the song anyway".

This is the week to do it, give Boyd another week to get over what ails him, send gia to the VFL to play with the likes of Honeychurch who would love Gia working with him, make some tough calls on players, especially Howard, give Morris and Cooney the week off and play our best kids against their best kids, being that they really only have kids now. Wind the kids up all week and let them loose at the GABBA and come what may.

Agree, if we are in development mode, this is what we should be doing. Nothing to lose - losing the games anyway. Everything to gain.

[Sedat]

I look at the respective draws to this point and don't see a great deal of difference in games I genuinely expected to win. I was bitterly disappointed with our efforts against Carlton and Adelaide this time around, and our lapse against GCS was as bad as I've seen this year.
We haven't even played any top 4 teams as yet this season, with all of our games being against fellow bottom 8 strugglers and teams at the lower end of the 8. It really has been a cushy draw in 2014 to date.

The 3 wins in 2014 are as telling as the losses - we played really well for the most part against Richmond but fell in due to Gia's composure late. We were neck and neck against fellow cellar dwellars GWS and Melbourne and did enough to draw away in the last 10 minutes of each match. None of these teams have won more games than we have - that is our level, and I'd have thought we'd be much further advanced in 2014 than that. In simple W/L terms, we are at least 2 wins shy of where we should be in 2014 to date IMO, based on an assumption that our level of improvement from late 2013 would continue and that we've had a soft draw.

[1eyedog]

To Round 10 2013:

3 wins (average winning margin 29pts - skewed by 68 point defeat of Brisbane)
7 losses (average losing margin 46pts)

To Round 10 2014:

3 wins (average winning margin 15pts)
7 losses (average losing margin 32pts)


We're not getting pounded like we were last year, and the year before so that's a positive.

Massive four weeks coming up, with games at Etihad against Brisbane, Melbourne and Collingwood, and one against Port at Adelaide Oval. We really need to come out of these two and two as a minimum.

Those numbers are skewed by the fact that we have yet to play Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood, Sydney or Port Adelaide (anyone other than Freo who are a potential top 4 team). We've had an easy draw so far so whether we have improved on 2013 is not that clear cut.

* Just saw your post above Sedat which I had not got too prior to posting.

[1eyedog]

Cool. I'd rather go in with JJ (Howard) Hunter (Gia) Grant (Roberts) Jones (susp, but Williams) (Talia too) with Hrovat, Bonts, Mac, Stringer and Macrae and like the 'Baby Bombers' just tell them to crack in and let destiny happen. It's a little idealistic I know, but playing to not get badly beaten is pointless to me, I can't accept that. What I can easily accept is kids with a licence to play to the limit of their talent and take it from there, even if it's only glimpses. The only people happy with playing not to get badly beaten are coaches, as I can't imagine any of the players thinking "wow, what a great loss today, only 40 points, let's sing the song anyway".

This is the week to do it, give Boyd another week to get over what ails him, send gia to the VFL to play with the likes of Honeychurch who would love Gia working with him, make some tough calls on players, especially Howard, give Morris and Cooney the week off and play our best kids against their best kids, being that they really only have kids now. Wind the kids up all week and let them loose at the GABBA and come what may.

Who will play Brissie at Etihad this week then? ;)

[jeemak]

Cool. I'd rather go in with JJ (Howard) Hunter (Gia) Grant (Roberts) Jones (susp, but Williams) (Talia too) with Hrovat, Bonts, Mac, Stringer and Macrae and like the 'Baby Bombers' just tell them to crack in and let destiny happen. It's a little idealistic I know, but playing to not get badly beaten is pointless to me, I can't accept that. What I can easily accept is kids with a licence to play to the limit of their talent and take it from there, even if it's only glimpses. The only people happy with playing not to get badly beaten are coaches, as I can't imagine any of the players thinking "wow, what a great loss today, only 40 points, let's sing the song anyway".

This is the week to do it, give Boyd another week to get over what ails him, send gia to the VFL to play with the likes of Honeychurch who would love Gia working with him, make some tough calls on players, especially Howard, give Morris and Cooney the week off and play our best kids against their best kids, being that they really only have kids now. Wind the kids up all week and let them loose at the GABBA and come what may.

That's fair enough, but I still don't think we're where we need to be defencively as a team and this was terribly exposed yesterday afternoon when Fremantle was able to score with the ease it was on the break.

Some of that was exacerbated by the missed opportunities and poor disposal going into the forward line. I really think with some clearly gettable opportunities taken in the first half and goals converted the complexion of the overall game would have been a little different.

I like the idea of letting young talent play freely, but the game has changed a lot in the last decade and allowing developing teams to do that has proven to have little benefit - see Melbourne for a prime example, and to a lesser extent Carlton's and Richmond's stagnation over the years.

[jeemak]

At this stage of the season there's only 4 points separating 2nd and 8th on the ladder. We've played three teams within that range.

[DISHLICKERS]

My fear is that we may have a well spoken Peter Rhode on our hands.

MCartney seems to be able to avoid much scrutiny because of his ability to talk and be articulate when fronting the media.

Why we rushed to sign him up is beyond me.

2014 has been disappointing. The reality is we still dont know whether or not McCartney can coach sometimes the players look lost on the ground almost with no clear direction.

[1eyedog]

At this stage of the season there's only 4 points separating 2nd and 8th on the ladder. We've played three teams within that range.

The gap between the teams I mentioned which we haven't played and the ones we have is far bigger than 4 points and that will prove itself over the next 12 rounds.

[jeemak]

I think you're right when it comes to Hawthorn (at full strength), Port and Sydney. I still don't know what to make of Geelong and Collingwood just yet.

[KT31]

Unless he has some new tricks up his sleeve we are in for a lot more pain.
Does anyone else hope BMac could possibly guilt Bomber Thompson to come over and help out in the coaches box.
Seriously, I would be truly happy if the club through a heap at Bomber to try and entice him over as B.Macs assistant, our even made B.Mac his assistant.

[bornadog]

Unless he has some new tricks up his sleeve we are in for a lot more pain.
Does anyone else hope BMac could possibly guilt Bomber Thompson to come over and help out in the coaches box.
Seriously, I would be truly happy if the club through a heap at Bomber to try and entice him over as B.Macs assistant, our even made B.Mac his assistant.

We need help big time. Not just in the coaches box. Priority draft picks, plus throw a million towards Cameron or Patton from GWS, or another big star.

[Topdog]

I think you're right when it comes to Hawthorn (at full strength), Port and Sydney. I still don't know what to make of Geelong and Collingwood just yet.

We haven't played any of those 5 teams yet though. This year our draw has been very kind.

[Topdog]

heck you could argue we have only played 2 decent teams with the Eagles being very average themselves. IMO there is a top 6 and the rest of the comp are really just very average

[jeemak]

heck you could argue we have only played 2 decent teams with the Eagles being very average themselves. IMO there is a top 6 and the rest of the comp are really just very average

Agree that our draw has been fairly kind, though I don't think drastically more generous than last year.

But I ask of you, which of the teams we've lost to do you think we should have beaten?

[Remi Moses]

Agree that our draw has been fairly kind, though I don't think drastically more generous than last year.

But I ask of you, which of the teams we've lost to do you think we should have beaten?

I reckon we're one win off where we should be .
I think the wins on the back end of last season created a false economy to be honest.
We played two sides cooked ( crows , eagles) and had a good win against Carlton.
If anybody thinks sacking McCartney and we'll jump up the ladder ( ala After Rohde) is disturbed and deluded.

[Sedat]

Agree that our draw has been fairly kind, though I don't think drastically more generous than last year.

But I ask of you, which of the teams we've lost to do you think we should have beaten?
Carlton (0 and 4 and completely bereft of confidence when we played them)
Essendon (crippled by the supplement scandal issue and with no forward line to speak of when we played them)
Adelaide (lost at home to Melbourne the week after beating us so were in bad form)

None of these teams will feature in the finals in 2014 and all were very gettable on the day for various reasons. I also think we played Gold Coast and Norf at opportune times (GC complacent and Norf lacking confidence when they played us) and we were a less than even money chance to beat both. So really, 5 and 5 would have been the bare minimum pass mark for us to date this season IMO.

[jeemak]

I'm with you on the win expectation. I definitely thought we should have accounted for Adelaide, while the Eagles are always a tough ask in the heat round one (I've never seen a bigger bunch of front runners, actually. We were always in for a tough day).

[Sedat]

I reckon we're one win off where we should be .
I think the wins on the back end of last season created a false economy to be honest.
We played two sides cooked ( crows , eagles) and had a good win against Carlton.
If anybody thinks sacking McCartney and we'll jump up the ladder ( ala After Rohde) is disturbed and deluded.
We also pushed Hawthorn hard in Launceston, as we did to Sydney and also Essendon at Etihad (pre ASADA investigation issues blowing up and when they were flying). Our good form was not limited to the wins we had late in the season.

I don't think anybody believes we would instantly improve if the senior coach was sacked. Are you happy with the current game plan and style, and also our performance in the coaches box on match day (across all of our coaching panel, not just BMac)? I think there is room for analysis right now so that come 2015 BMac is given the best possible chance to succeed.

[jeemak]

Carlton (0 and 4 and completely bereft of confidence when we played them)
Essendon (crippled by the supplement scandal issue and with no forward line to speak of when we played them)
Adelaide (lost at home to Melbourne the week after beating us so were in bad form)

None of these teams will feature in the finals in 2014 and all were very gettable on the day for various reasons. I also think we played Gold Coast and Norf at opportune times (GC complacent and Norf lacking confidence when they played us) and we were a less than even money chance to beat both. So really, 5 and 5 would have been the bare minimum pass mark for us to date this season IMO.

Disagree with you on North (after a game in the heat and shorter break they enjoyed I thought we battled manfully). Have to agree on Carlton and Adelaide, hence these being my big disappointments.

Gold Coast in Queensland was a bad loss in terms of our fade away in the third quarter. I don't think you can put a value on complacency and I wasn't convinced we'd do very well as they have a lot of raw talent.

Essendon is a tough one to mark against us. They're a side further down the track in their development than we are, I don't think anyone can really argue against that scandal or no scandal. We also had our own personnel issues to deal with.

[DISHLICKERS]

We also pushed Hawthorn hard in Launceston, as we did to Sydney and also Essendon at Etihad (pre ASADA investigation issues blowing up and when they were flying). Our good form was not limited to the wins we had late in the season.

I don't think anybody believes we would instantly improve if the senior coach was sacked. Are you happy with the current game plan and style, and also our performance in the coaches box on match day (across all of our coaching panel, not just BMac)? I think there is room for analysis right now so that come 2015 BMac is given the best possible chance to succeed.

I agree with you 100%.

I am not sure what game style/ game plan we have. Seems to me alot is ad-hoc on game day.

There seems to be more things up in the air under Macca than set in concrete.

[bulldogtragic]

What confuses me, is that the players had 6 months to work on our game plan, tactics etc, and now 9 games. So it breaks down like this:

a) the plan is so ad-hoc it's rendered stupid and useless and easily beatable
b) the plan is so complex 30 odd players this year still don't get it, 9 months from last season and 2.5 years since the inception
c) the plan is predicated on skills we do not possess
d) all of the above

Either way, if Macca can take a chunk of credit late last year, he can also take a dose of members questioning what is happening right now. If no one ever questioned a coach and the ability to get the players playing to their potential Alan Joyce and Peter Rhode might be dual coaches of the footy club right now. Questioning in and of itself is not a bad thing, especially if the answers lie in variables we can control, such as a match day assistant, or changing assistant coaches, or changing the gameplan etc.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We also pushed Hawthorn hard in Launceston, as we did to Sydney and also Essendon at Etihad (pre ASADA investigation issues blowing up and when they were flying). Our good form was not limited to the wins we had late in the season.

I don't think anybody believes we would instantly improve if the senior coach was sacked. Are you happy with the current game plan and style, and also our performance in the coaches box on match day (across all of our coaching panel, not just BMac)? I think there is room for analysis right now so that come 2015 BMac is given the best possible chance to succeed.
It isn't difficult to come up with all sorts of theories at the moment for our lack of success but at the end of the day our list simply isn't good enough. I cannot recall when we had such a poor attack with only Dahlhaus and Crameri, being reasonable. There is very little senior coaching experience on the MC and this hasn't helped our cause but the main factor is in the quality of our list. The lack of skill is a major concern with very few of our players consistently able to dispose of the ball effectively. Apart from Roughead there isn't one other player who is a strong overhead mark. The emergence of Gold Coast Suns and GWS has only served to limit our ability to draft quality draft picks.

[jeemak]

BT, I don't think anyone has an issue with questioning the coach constructively. I find it strange however, that just because people can't or don't understand what is trying to be achieved they assume the coaching team is out of its depth.

Especially when it's very clear we have serious talent issues across the ground, particularly up forward and with respect to outside midfield players.

Specifically in response to the above, I would suggest C is the closest to the mark. We do not use the ball very well due to the personnel we have at our disposal, and we struggle to defend fast breaking and well drilled sides (like Fremantle) due to the fitness level of our broader list and their experience (nous).

The key tenet of this football department has been to put time into coaching the players in playing a certain way. I don't think they're patting themselves on the back right now saying "we've done a fantastic job, let's get on the banana lounge" (in fact Bmac himself said in his press conference the club is impatient, just like the supporters).

If I was to hazard a guess, the MC would be incredibly frustrated with the skill level in general and the stagnation the team is showing. Perhaps there's been an underestimation of how far behind the curve some players are in their development.

[Remi Moses]

Carlton (0 and 4 and completely bereft of confidence when we played them)
Essendon (crippled by the supplement scandal issue and with no forward line to speak of when we played them)
Adelaide (lost at home to Melbourne the week after beating us so were in bad form)

None of these teams will feature in the finals in 2014 and all were very gettable on the day for various reasons. I also think we played Gold Coast and Norf at opportune times (GC complacent and Norf lacking confidence when they played us) and we were a less than even money chance to beat both. So really, 5 and 5 would have been the bare minimum pass mark for us to date this season IMO.

Disagree on Gold Coast and Norf . Those teams are just better than we are.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, I don't think anyone has an issue with questioning the coach constructively. I find it strange however, that just because people can't or don't understand what is trying to be achieved they assume the coaching team is out of its depth.

Especially when it's very clear we have serious talent issues across the ground, particularly up forward and with respect to outside midfield players.

Specifically in response to the above, I would suggest C is the closest to the mark. We do not use the ball very well due to the personnel we have at our disposal, and we struggle to defend fast breaking and well drilled sides (like Fremantle) due to the fitness level of our broader list and their experience (nous).

The key tenet of this football department has been to put time into coaching the players in playing a certain way. I don't think they're patting themselves on the back right now saying "we've done a fantastic job, let's get on the banana lounge" (in fact Bmac himself said in his press conference the club is impatient, just like the supporters).

If I was to hazard a guess, the MC would be incredibly frustrated with the skill level in general and the stagnation the team is showing. Perhaps there's been an underestimation of how far behind the curve some players are in their development.

Unfortunately for the coaches, how the players respond to their teaching and game plan by the way of their form is how you have to judge them. For instance, Shannon Grant, based as his time as our forwards coach, do you think another club would be trying to poach him from us? How the forward line works is what he is charged to do, its just a way of life.

As for Macca, I think there are many on here, me included, that have questioned his match day tactics for the best part of two years. It's not only to do with this year, or last week. For all his strengths, and he has very many of them, heaps, tactically he seems to be (some say) predictable and/or not astute to the point he is outpointing his rival coach. Admitting a weakness isn't a reflection on the man, it's about saying if he's doing 75% of his job above average, and the other 25% can be improved by paying (say) Bomber Thompson to help him on match day. Criticism ought not to be a bad thing, I hate being called on personally, just ask a certain fellow Bendigonian, (sorry again) but I will take it in and change my behaviour or whatever where I can. Not at you JM, but society today seems harder to make criticism without hurting feelings or some people taking it the wrong way. When we can be truly honest about our weaknesses we can then properly address them for them to become strengths. Match day tactics are not Macca's strength, its just about fact. So if that's his only weakness, then address it, and help him help the team. Everyone has the capacity to continually improve and develop, players and coaches and even marketing managers or membership sales telephonists. At the end of the day, some of us are just saying we see an opportunity for Macca to excel at a perceived weakness with some support and structure. It comes from a good place and if it helps wins some games of footy next year, then why wouldn't we look at it as an opportunity and not as a threat?

[anfo27]

it amazes me how many people question the game plan or match day tactics. Unless you are in the coaches box & know what is going on in there you really do not know what you are talking about. Is anyone on this forum ever been or is a full time football coach? Other than mjp i don't think anyone here is & even mjp is on the other side of the country & would not get a chance to watch us live.
Its like listening to SEN after a game. Every team that losses has fans ring up and say 'we have no plan b' or 'coach x can't coach'. Its laughable that a bloke who sits in an office all day can point a finger at a coach & question his tactics & game plan when he wouldn't know the first thing about coaching. Plenty on here who know plenty about football no doubt but just about everyone knows nothing about what goes on in the coaches box.

[chef]

it amazes me how many people question the game plan or match day tactics. Unless you are in the coaches box & know what is going on in there you really do not know what you are talking about. Is anyone on this forum ever been or is a full time football coach? Other than mjp i don't think anyone here is & even mjp is on the other side of the country & would not get a chance to watch us live.
Its like listening to SEN after a game. Every team that losses has fans ring up and say 'we have no plan b' or 'coach x can't coach'. Its laughable that a bloke who sits in an office all day can point a finger at a coach & question his tactics & game plan when he wouldn't know the first thing about coaching. Plenty on here who know plenty about football no doubt but just about everyone knows nothing about what goes on in the coaches box.

Yep.

[Greystache]

it amazes me how many people question the game plan or match day tactics. Unless you are in the coaches box & know what is going on in there you really do not know what you are talking about. Is anyone on this forum ever been or is a full time football coach? Other than mjp i don't think anyone here is & even mjp is on the other side of the country & would not get a chance to watch us live.
Its like listening to SEN after a game. Every team that losses has fans ring up and say 'we have no plan b' or 'coach x can't coach'. Its laughable that a bloke who sits in an office all day can point a finger at a coach & question his tactics & game plan when he wouldn't know the first thing about coaching. Plenty on here who know plenty about football no doubt but just about everyone knows nothing about what goes on in the coaches box.

It's a wonder any coach is ever sacked, they all do it as a full time job know exactly what they're doing. Sounds like it's impossible they could be getting it wrong.

[bulldogtragic]

it amazes me how many people question the game plan or match day tactics. Unless you are in the coaches box & know what is going on in there you really do not know what you are talking about. Is anyone on this forum ever been or is a full time football coach? Other than mjp i don't think anyone here is & even mjp is on the other side of the country & would not get a chance to watch us live.
Its like listening to SEN after a game. Every team that losses has fans ring up and say 'we have no plan b' or 'coach x can't coach'. Its laughable that a bloke who sits in an office all day can point a finger at a coach & question his tactics & game plan when he wouldn't know the first thing about coaching. Plenty on here who know plenty about football no doubt but just about everyone knows nothing about what goes on in the coaches box.

Whilst I disagree with what you're saying, I fight to the death for your right to do so.

A ridiculous example: If I watch a game of chess do I need to be in the brain of the person (or super computer) to know if they are tactically astute? Surely one can observe the moves of pieces in either an attacking or defensive way to determine whether the tactics and moves are better or worse than their opponent. I don't play chess regularly, but I can see quite clearly if an opponent is likely to be easier than not to out outmaneuver after a period of time. I don't need to be a full time chess player to pass opinion any more than a coach who moves pieces around on a field. If one can't pass judgement on objective actualities, such as where a player is played, or how the coach maneuvers players in response to a move, such as a loose man in defence, then pack up this forum and let's find another outlet. Our opinion is subjective that's a given, the moves or not-moves are objective, and thus opinion of same can be made without needing to be an AFL coach et al.

[jeemak]

I think there's a key ingredient when evaluating a coach's tactical and strategic nous, and that ingredient is the coach's objective. The reason why I'm not sold on the idea BMac needs an assistant of great experience or a rejig of the assistant panel (or be replaced himself) is because I don't know to what end his match day set-ups are executed.

Potentially this is where anfo was heading with his post, but I don't want to speak for him. Essentially, if the moves we see are obvious to us, then for the most part they'd be obvious to the coaching panel. The problem we have as spectators is trying to figure out why the obvious isn't being acted upon.

When the group is more settled after a little bit more development I would think a more tactical approach to game day activity from the box would be required. I think when teams are developing coach's have a tendency to let things play out more than they might with experienced players (who have been trained to play in multiple positions - something we're on record as wanting the vast majority of our players to be able to do).

Generally after a few years of having a reasonable list at their disposal you start to hear stories about whether a coach is any good in the box. It will be interesting if these stories start to build about the Bulldogs.

BT - To your question about Shannon Grant, I think the overwhelming thought from those within the industry when evaluating his situation and performance would be one of sympathy. He's had sweet FA at his disposal this year, though I doubt anyone would be really that eager to poach him at this point.

[anfo27]

It's a wonder any coach is ever sacked, they all do it as a full time job know exactly what they're doing. Sounds like it's impossible they could be getting it wrong.

Well they are not sacked by people on a forum or talk back radio. Whoever is on the board or MC might know a little more than you and i.

[bulldogtragic]

I think there's a key ingredient when evaluating a coach's tactical and strategic nous, and that ingredient is the coach's objective. The reason why I'm not sold on the idea BMac needs an assistant of great experience or a rejig of the assistant panel (or be replaced himself) is because I don't know to what end his match day set-ups are executed.

When the group is more settled after a little bit more development I would think a more tactical approach to game day activity from the box would be required. I think when teams are developing coach's have a tendency to let things play out more than they might with experienced players (who have been trained to play in multiple positions - something we're on record as wanting the vast majority of our players to be able to do).

Generally after a few years of having a reasonable list at their disposal you start to hear stories about whether a coach is any good in the box. It will be interesting if these stories start to build about the Bulldogs.

BT - To your question about Shannon Grant, I think the overwhelming thought from those within the industry when evaluating his situation and performance would be one of sympathy. He's had sweet FA at his disposal this year, though I doubt anyone would be really that eager to poach him at this point.

It's a tough industry, I know I couldn't do it. But in the cut throat world of the AFL, the club's administration needs to ask:

a) How is the forward line functioning?
b) Are Grant's plans being executed regularly by the players? (If not)
c) Is Grant's message now not having effect anymore?

The reality is coaches have a relatively short life from my reading of things. Players respond to some better than others (See Matt White at Port Adelaide this year) and some coaches are great at finding ways of motivating players. I've heard John Northey and Rob Walls were great speech makers and could fire the boys up, only problem is, at some point it becomes 'old' and doesn't have the effect to the same level.

I think Grant must have a better plan than what is being executed. So following the questions above, the next question is are the players listening anymore or is Grant's ability to educate them so reduced and/or limited to render him ineffectual as a coach?

I didn't mean to isolate Grant, but the issue is everyone need be looked at and for the assistants, how the players are playing or responding on field is a key KPI. To Macca, all many of us are saying is help him develop as a senior coach, give him more support and work to the end goal. I didn't hear Buckley saying no to his club giving him Eade, nor did I hear Hird say no to Bomber assisting him. It's not a negative, it need not be a reflection of negativity.

[anfo27]

Whilst I disagree with what you're saying, I fight to the death for your right to do so.

A ridiculous example: If I watch a game of chess do I need to be in the brain of the person (or super computer) to know if they are tactically astute? Surely one can observe the moves of pieces in either an attacking or defensive way to determine whether the tactics and moves are better or worse than their opponent. I don't play chess regularly, but I can see quite clearly if an opponent is likely to be easier than not to out outmaneuver after a period of time. I don't need to be a full time chess player to pass opinion any more than a coach who moves pieces around on a field. If one can't pass judgement on objective actualities, such as where a player is played, or how the coach maneuvers players in response to a move, such as a loose man in defence, then pack up this forum and let's find another outlet. Our opinion is subjective that's a given, the moves or not-moves are objective, and thus opinion of same can be made without needing to be an AFL coach et al.

You're right it is a ridiculous example bt. I love your passion for this great club of ours but unless you are in there you don't know why a move isn't made or is made for that matter. Last year for example we had loads of posters questioning maccas coaching ability because he wasn't making moves on kids who were getting beaten. Now either macca can't coach or maybe he wanted to learn something about the kids we have. Also there would be loads of moves macca and his team make every game or quarter even & we would notice a handful at best.

Its fine to have opinions & venting but it just rubs me the wrong way when people who probably have never played competitive sports let alone coached a group of men can claim a coach can't coach.

[Remi Moses]

Some on here need a serious dose of concrete

[bulldogtragic]

Well they are not sacked by people on a forum or talk back radio. Whoever is on the board or MC might know a little more than you and i.

Discussion is a good thing. This club appointed Peter Rhode, the team agreed to corner Jade Rawlings in a crap deal, piss away picks and allow Brown to walk and nearly send West and Gilbee packing. I'd like to think that those of us screaming back then were justified and perhaps knew more about things than the board. Time will tell who is 'right' or who is 'wrong', but simply being in authority doesn't in and of itself mean they are right or wrong. There's nothing wrong with questioning authority in a considered way. Most posters on WOOF generally explain to the best of their ability why they have the opinion they do, and that's a good thing.

[Greystache]

Some on here need a serious dose of concrete

Are we really going to get a "be like me I celebrate the numbers of games I've watched us lose post in every thread"?

[bulldogtragic]

You're right it is a ridiculous example bt. I love your passion for this great club of ours but unless you are in there you don't know why a move isn't made or is made for that matter. Last year for example we had loads of posters questioning maccas coaching ability because he wasn't making moves on kids who were getting beaten. Now either macca can't coach or maybe he wanted to learn something about the kids we have. Also there would be loads of moves macca and his team make every game or quarter even & we would notice a handful at best.

Its fine to have opinions & venting but it just rubs me the wrong way when people who probably have never played competitive sports let alone coached a group of men can claim a coach can't coach.

Playing Gia as a permanent sub is quantifiable, and it's not working and needs to stop.
Allowing Freo to have one or two loose backman doesn't test any player
Not responding to midfield rotations is quantifiable
Not moving Griffen around when he was clearly getting smashed doesn't do much for anyone
Making Minson ruck one out for years is unfair more than anything

The argument that players will be better necessarily by being beaten is not a foolproof theory. How did Zac Dawson go for the first few years after Rocca smashed him?

No one has said that Macca cannot coach. Coaching is far, far more complex than just match day tactics and response to the game. All some have said is that this might be an area for his development as a coach and thus the team more generally.

That anyone need play the sport or have coached the sport in order to make comment... I just can't agree with it. Most journalists have never done the things they report on, basically the entire media report on things they've never done. Seriously, if your test for comment is having done it, then I don't have anything to comment on really????

[jeemak]

It's a tough industry, I know I couldn't do it. But in the cut throat world of the AFL, the club's administration needs to ask:

a) How is the forward line functioning?
b) Are Grant's plans being executed regularly by the players? (If not)
c) Is Grant's message now not having effect anymore?

The reality is coaches have a relatively short life from my reading of things. Players respond to some better than others (See Matt White at Port Adelaide this year) and some coaches are great at finding ways of motivating players. I've heard John Northey and Rob Walls were great speech makers and could fire the boys up, only problem is, at some point it becomes 'old' and doesn't have the effect to the same level.

I think Grant must have a better plan than what is being executed. So following the questions above, the next question is are the players listening anymore or is Grant's ability to educate them so reduced and/or limited to render him ineffectual as a coach?

I didn't mean to isolate Grant, but the issue is everyone need be looked at and for the assistants, how the players are playing or responding on field is a key KPI. To Macca, all many of us are saying is help him develop as a senior coach, give him more support and work to the end goal. I didn't hear Buckley saying no to his club giving him Eade, nor did I hear Hird say no to Bomber assisting him. It's not a negative, it need not be a reflection of negativity.

I think they're reasonable questions. I'd add one or two more - Do we have the personnel to execute the plan, is the plan itself worth pursuing and if so should we find personnel who can execute it if the personnel we have at our disposal can't?

Just going on the record, I don't have an issue with getting BMac an experienced assistant to help out with game day tactics, but at this point I'm not going to suggest doing so would be the absolutely best use of our resource base, which is of course scarce relative to some of our competitors. If someone can convince me that it is, then I'm all for it as I agree it's most definitely not a negative thing to do.

As for the assistant panel, I think gradual turnover is required to bring new ideas and new methods to the club and I would think that after three years at the helm Bmac should seriously consider bringing in new blood.

[bulldogtragic]

I think they're reasonable questions. I'd add one or two more - Do we have the personnel to execute the plan, is the plan itself worth pursuing and if so should we find personnel who can execute it if the personnel we have at our disposal can't?

Just going on the record, I don't have an issue with getting BMac an experienced assistant to help out with game day tactics, but at this point I'm not going to suggest doing so would be the absolutely best use of our resource base, which is of course scarce relative to some of our competitors. If someone can convince me that it is, then I'm all for it as I agree it's most definitely not a negative thing to do.

As for the assistant panel, I think gradual turnover is required to bring new ideas and new methods to the club and I would think that after three years at the helm Bmac should seriously consider bringing in new blood.

And here it is, twenty posts together, we completely agree! :)

[jeemak]

And here it is, twenty posts together, we completely agree! :)

It's horrible.

[DISHLICKERS]

I am far from convinced that Macca and assistants are the right people. Would love more than anything to be proven wrong.

It has been 2.5 years and I have not seen anything that suggests to me we have developed under the current regime. Seems to me Melbourne has even gone past us but Port definately has.

All I have heard is we are in this phase and that phase we will now start to learn about how to go about this area of our game, we need to learn to hang in there for longer etc. Cliches to keep the wolves at bay.

Where were we ranked in contested football last year? Where are we this year?

I had earmarked the last 6 weeks of football as a real indicator on how far we have come under Macca. I fear it has been a wasted 2 years. Hope I am wrong.

[bulldogtragic]

It's horrible.

Where's the love? :)

Let's hug and cry it out.

[jeemak]

Where's the love? :)

Let's hug and cry it out.

Hahaha, it's an emotional time!

[Remi Moses]

Are we really going to get a "be like me I celebrate the numbers of games I've watched us lose post in every thread"?

Nobody is enjoying seeing us lose mate!

[Remi Moses]

Discussion is a good thing. This club appointed Peter Rhode, the team agreed to corner Jade Rawlings in a crap deal, piss away picks and allow Brown to walk and nearly send West and Gilbee packing. I'd like to think that those of us screaming back then were justified and perhaps knew more about things than the board. Time will tell who is 'right' or who is 'wrong', but simply being in authority doesn't in and of itself mean they are right or wrong. There's nothing wrong with questioning authority in a considered way. Most posters on WOOF generally explain to the best of their ability why they have the opinion they do, and that's a good thing.
All for discussion, but equating the Rohde era to this one is just utter nonsense.
The cattle in the Rohde era wasn't the issue, the effort was deplorable.
The cattle in this era just isn't up to it. The jury is out on McCartney ( obviously)

[Scorlibo]

Playing Gia as a permanent sub is quantifiable, and it's not working and needs to stop.
Allowing Freo to have one or two loose backman doesn't test any player
Not responding to midfield rotations is quantifiable
Not moving Griffen around when he was clearly getting smashed doesn't do much for anyone
Making Minson ruck one out for years is unfair more than anything


I dispute everything you have said here, particularly the bolded parts. Gia consistently comes on and has an impact - he doesn't have to win every game for us like he did with the Richmond game. Minson was All-Australian last year rucking by himself, and until Tom Campbell or Ayce Cordy knock the door down at Footscray, they shouldn't be gifted games in the second ruck role.

I hate this thread in a way that I don't usually hate web pages. After every loss the same posters fire up, it doesn't matter who we've played or even how we've played. 'Pack your bags McCartney' as a title is so far removed from how I feel about the coach and the progress of the team that I feel embarrassed to be a part of the forum.

[bulldogtragic]

All for discussion, but equating the Rohde era to this one is just utter nonsense.
The cattle in the Rohde era wasn't the issue, the effort was deplorable.
The cattle in this era just isn't up to it. The jury is out on McCartney ( obviously)

Perhaps I was unclear. I did not say Macca or his team are akin to Rhode and his team.

What I said was simply being authority doesn't mean they're right or wrong. To illustrate the point, I suggested those in authority who appointed Rhode and let him harm the club were not right. Ergo, power or authority doesn't automatically mean someone is right, and that people discussing concerns is not a bad thing.

Utter nonsense...

[Bulldog4life]

Are we really going to get a "be like me I celebrate the numbers of games I've watched us lose post in every thread"?

I don't think anyone has said that Greystache. I haven't read of anyone who celebrates a loss as you say. But what it is we all have different ways in handling defeat. Some yell from the rafters others don't. That is what makes WOOF a great place.

[bulldogtragic]

I dispute everything you have said here, particularly the bolded parts. Gia consistently comes on and has an impact - he doesn't have to win every game for us like he did with the Richmond game. Minson was All-Australian last year rucking by himself, and until Tom Campbell or Ayce Cordy knock the door down at Footscray, they shouldn't be gifted games in the second ruck role.

Cool, we disagree.

[Remi Moses]

No issue with discussing concerns . I've got my own
There's one or two posts saying this smells of the rohde era.
You can't compare this list of players to the list we now have.
No issue with supporters concerns.

[bulldogtragic]

No issue with discussing concerns . I've got my own
There's one or two posts saying this smells of the rohde era.
You can't compare this list of players to the list we now have.
No issue with supporters concerns.

I'm not comparing anything..... I'm simply saying being in a position authority doesn't ipso facto make you right or wrong. I can't be much clearer.

[Remi Moses]

I'm not comparing anything..... I'm simply saying being in a position authority doesn't ipso facto make you right or wrong. I can't be much clearer.

I've got no idea what you're talking about
I actually didn't call you out BT.Someone made a statement that this smelt of Rohde, and I've said this list compared to Rohdes are poles apart. A position of authority doesn't make everything right( if that's your point) but the title of the thread is absurd( incredibly started early last season) Decisions have been made that some disagree on and others agree, but to turf McCartney out now is short sighted and to be honest a new coach wouldn't improve our lot markedly next season.
1. Improve our defending outside a stoppage
2. Run and carry ( need players who play both ways)
3. Disposal into 50 needs massive work
4 . Need a decent forward

[bulldogtragic]

I've got no idea what you're talking about
I actually didn't call you out BT.Someone made a statement that this smelt of Rohde, and I've said this list compared to Rohdes are poles apart. A position of authority doesn't make everything right( if that's your point) but the title of the thread is absurd( incredibly started early last season) Decisions have been made that some disagree on and others agree, but to turf McCartney out now is short sighted and to be honest a new coach wouldn't improve our lot markedly next season.
1. Improve our defending outside a stoppage
2. Run and carry ( need players who play both ways)
3. Disposal into 50 needs massive work
4 . Need a decent forward

I'm getting confused. But we are in agreeance (pace, good disposal, KPPs). Makes drafting hard when you need everything! :)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I haven't seen many (if any) unreasonable posts re: criticism of McCartney and the coaching panel/state of our club as a whole.

Pretty easy to use the "yelling/negative/same posters" line and be oblivious to the justifications that astute posters here provide.

[Bulldog4life]

Power to all the Woofers. I love all the different views. As Claude Levi-Strauss the French anthropologist and ethnologist said "The wise man doesn't give the right answers, he poses the right questions". Got taught that at school many years ago. Always wanted to use it even if it not appropriate.:D

[F'scary]

You can't question the team's endeavour and the stats across the board show we get our fair share of possession.
McCartney has got that part of the equation right.

But...we play without any poise or incisiveness and our skills are often embarrassingly poor.
That is McCartney's problem.

[Ozza]

Perhaps I was unclear. I did not say Macca or his team are akin to Rhode and his team.

What I said was simply being authority doesn't mean they're right or wrong. To illustrate the point, I suggested those in authority who appointed Rhode and let him harm the club were not right. Ergo, power or authority doesn't automatically mean someone is right, and that people discussing concerns is not a bad thing.

Utter nonsense...

You may not be directly saying it - but you have referred to right now as being like the Rhode era on several threads for a few weeks, and you have bumped the 'pack your bags McCartney thread. I've got no problem with that being your view - you're entitled to it - no dramas.

But let's not dress it up as something else!

[Ozza]

Power to all the Woofers. I love all the different views. As Claude Levi-Strauss the French anthropologist and ethnologist said "The wise man doesn't give the right answers, he poses the right questions". Got taught that at school many years ago. Always wanted to use it even if it not appropriate.:D

Sounds like Claude was passing the buck! :D

[Bulldog4life]

Sounds like Claude was passing the buck! :D

Ha ha. Could be on the money there too Ozza.

[bulldogtragic]

You may not be directly saying it - but you have referred to right now as being like the Rhode era on several threads for a few weeks, and you have bumped the 'pack your bags McCartney thread. I've got no problem with that being your view - you're entitled to it - no dramas.

But let's not dress it up as something else!

Sorry to clear things up, what I've said twice is that I feel like I did around 30 games in within the Rhode empire. I'm talking about my feelings, nothing more or less, just my feelings. I'm have never suggested that Macca is akin to Rhode, if I did, I be hit with an unloseable defamation claim! :)

As for bumping the thread, if you go back, I think I said in the bump that I wasn't endorsing the title. What I also said was when this thread started it soon turned into a Macca love thread, many coming back to chirp about the stupidity of the thread. I might have also said that moving of sentiment was in effect a barometer of where we as members where about Macca. Thus it made sense to test any change in sentiment on this thread, despite the title being rediculous. Had the thread been called 'Womack & Womack are really good' I would have bumped it as it's the context of testing our sentiments over nearly 12 months. I think I explained it Westdog54 about 5 pages back if you want further clarification.

To summarise, it's 'my feelings' being like an historical about a point in time, no comparison was made with anyone, it's just trying to articulate a time where I felt something similar in the last major rebuild. The thread title was never endorsed and was bumped on the clear advice that I didn't endorse the title.

With the greatest of respect you've called me out for trying to dress things up. I've not done what you've alleged. What am I dressing up?

[Remi Moses]

I'm getting confused. But we are in agreeance (pace, good disposal, KPPs). Makes drafting hard when you need everything! :)

Love the passion BT. :D

[Topdog]

I dispute everything you have said here, particularly the bolded parts..

So you think allowing Freo to have 2 loose men in the backline just mopping up all our i50's is a good move?

[Topdog]

You can't question the team's endeavour and the stats across the board show we get our fair share of possession.
McCartney has got that part of the equation right.

But...we play without any poise or incisiveness and our skills are often embarrassingly poor.
That is McCartney's problem.

Yep and it is entirely possible that McCartney has taken us as far as he can.

Happy for him to see the year out but we need to see improvement.

[jeemak]

So you think allowing Freo to have 2 loose men in the backline just mopping up all our i50's is a good move?

Just as a matter of curiosity, what happened to us on the rebound when we managed to keep numbers even across the ground? From what I recall we got scored against quite easily.

Not saying one is right over the other, just that there's always a reaction to any action you decide to take on a footy field and it's not always positive - even if it is the obvious thing to do.

[Mantis]

Just as a matter of curiosity, what happened to us on the rebound when we managed to keep numbers even across the ground? From what I recall we got scored against quite easily.


Do we have anyone of any size smart enough to play the loose man role?

I watched Crameri run around like a headless chook trying to plug gaps as the loose man during different parts of the game.... It was embarrassing.

[jeemak]

Do we have anyone of any size smart enough to play the loose man role?

I watched Crameri run around like a headless chook trying to plug gaps as the loose man during different parts of the game.... It was embarrassing.

Wood reads the play well enough, and is able to run out but his disposal is an issue. Plus, he's great at defending a number of different types of forwards.

Agree that Crameri didn't seem suited to the role.

[Mofra]

Wood reads the play well enough, and is able to run out but his disposal is an issue. Plus, he's great at defending a number of different types of forwards.

Agree that Crameri didn't seem suited to the role.
Wood did it against the Suns, bravely got crunched blocking the hole.

If I had to back anyone on the list in for the spare man role, I'd nominate Stringer. Uses it well, reads the play and has the size to impact on a contest.

I did note that Lyon went with a 5 man forward line at the opening bounce and at the start of quarters - the style of game that was going to be played would never be a shootout.

[azabob]

Wood did it against the Suns, bravely got crunched blocking the hole.

If I had to back anyone on the list in for the spare man role, I'd nominate Stringer. Uses it well, reads the play and has the size to impact on a contest.

I did note that Lyon went with a 5 man forward line at the opening bounce and at the start of quarters - the style of game that was going to be played would never be a shootout.

Is Stringer mobile enough?

Everitt can play the 3rd man up role well - where is he at? ;)

[GVGjr]

You can't question the team's endeavour and the stats across the board show we get our fair share of possession.
McCartney has got that part of the equation right.

But...we play without any poise or incisiveness and our skills are often embarrassingly poor.
That is McCartney's problem.

Agreed on both points

[kruder]

McCartney's other major problem is list management.

We have put hell of alot of development time into Jones,Cordy,Howard,Tutt,Grant,Roberts,Redpath and Pearce. You can also add Darley, Fuller and Young to that list and thats ~30% of the list with serious question marks against it.

If you take the glass empty approach, if some of these players don't come on we are in for an extended run at the bottom of the ladder.