Are we much different to Hawthorn circa 2004-5?

[westdog54]

We're certainly not a carbon copy, but there are certainly some similarities worth considering when comparing the two teams:


A well credentialed assistant brought in as a novice senior coach, seen by many as a left-field appointment and seen as being out of his depth.
Large average losing margins (18 losses at 44.39 in 2004, 17 losses at 34.65 in 2005 including a 117 point defeat in Adelaide against the previous year's premier and 63 and 54 point losses against the eventual premiers)
A list firmly in transition/rebuild mode
The exit of experienced players seen as not up to it/not in long term plans in favour of a youth policy
A seemingly non-existent game plan
A painful style of football to watch
Willingness to bat on with match-ups simply not working (Remember A.Rocca vs Z.Dawson?)
Calls for blood from the supporter base
Glimmers of hope in the form of exciting youngsters taken in the draft (Roughead/Franklin/Lewis vs Stringer/Macrae/Hrovat)


Before I get jumped on, I know that Clarkson wasn't coach in 2004 and I know that Roughead et al have plenty of runs on the board ahead of what our boys have, but it is most certainly a comparison worth discussing in my opinion.

Thoughts?

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting observation WD54, certainly a few similarities there.

[Remi Moses]

Lot of similarities, also add Hawthorn's fan base didn't rock up either.

[Ghost Dog]

It's easy to whinge about the negatives during a re-build. Takes a bit more effort to dig around and see other teams have been in just as bad shape over the years and come out of it. Good one WD

[MrMahatma]

For every successful rebuild, there's three that have failed. How long have Melb, Rich, Roos, Carl, Lions et al been in rebuild mode?

Supporters in general can take the pain, the problem is that in most cases the end result isn't a particularly good one. You can draw comparisons with any 2 rebuilds - old players leaving, most cases it's a new coach, most cases the team gets flogged. Difference between the hawks and others is they did it successfully. We won't know for another 12 months about whether we're even close to doing it well. (Talk of 5 yrs is BS in my opinion. 5 yrs for full effect maybe, but we should know before then if we're on the right track).

Eagles and Swans have done it well in recent times too.

[Mofra]

The similarities are there, with one big difference though - GCS & GWS have been handed the Earth.

Even next year, the two best players available (Martin & Hogan) are off he table.

[Mantis]

You could swap us for Melbourne (both now and under Bailey) and draw the same similarities.

[Maddog37]

Good thread. Major difference for me is we need a Hodge and a Buddy type to step up. Stringer and Jones?

[immortalmike]

You could swap us for Melbourne (both now and under Bailey) and draw the same similarities.

Cool so what's your solution? What should we do?
How do we know we are on the right track?
I see a lot of you sniping from the sidelines Mantis (which is your right as a supporter) but very little ideas on what should happen. Without anything constructive your views are just contrarian soundbytes.

[wimberga]

Good thread. Major difference for me is we need a Hodge and a Buddy type to step up. Stringer and Jones?

Stringer is someone I see making a real difference. The way he speaks, his presence on and off the field and everything I have ever read says this guy will do everything he can to be a champion.

I am convinced that Jones can become a very good player but don't ever see him being top 10 type material.

Tom Boyd on the other hand, may give us that Franklin, game changer type you are speaking of. Especially in conjunction with Stringer.

[bulldogtragic]

Stringer is someone I see making a real difference. The way he speaks, his presence on and off the field and everything I have ever read says this guy will do everything he can to be a champion.

I am convinced that Jones can become a very good player but don't ever see him being top 10 type material.

Tom Boyd on the other hand, may give us that Franklin, game changer type you are speaking of. Especially in conjunction with Stringer.
Do you honestly think Boyd will drop to three? I'm not convinced.

[chef]

Do you honestly think Boyd will drop to three? I'm not convinced.

How about 2?

GWS have Patton and Cameron and Melbourne have Dawes, Clarke and Hogan. I can see him falling to us.

[bulldogtragic]

How about 2?

GWS have Patton and Cameron and Melbourne have Dawes, Clarke and Hogan. I can see him falling to us.
I hope you're right!

[chef]

I hope you're right!

Me too:).

[wimberga]

How about 2?

GWS have Patton and Cameron and Melbourne have Dawes, Clarke and Hogan. I can see him falling to us.

This is basically how I see it too. If we finish in this order, its quite possible that GWS may also have Franklin, but even if not, they do have some good young talls already.

If not, we should of course still end up with a very good player but I can see Boyd slipping to us in this situation.

[LostDoggy]

Lot of similarities, also add Hawthorn's fan base didn't rock up either.

Hawthorn are the bandwagon kings of the afl. Things looked very dark back then. All of sudden 07/08 they gained almost 20k members.
When they were in their premiership hangover in 2009, we had a game where we led them 88-3 just before halftime. The Hawthorn fans had almost all left.

[Remi Moses]

How about 2?

GWS have Patton and Cameron and Melbourne have Dawes, Clarke and Hogan. I can see him falling to us.

I reckon GWS will get Franklin. The love child needs a big Fish, and I'm sure they'll dress it up with that ambassador crap out of the salary cap. Plus Fantasia's at Hawthorn so I'm confident.
Knightmare on BF thinks GWS might look to go with GC in midfield explosiveness ( Martin).
You'd be staggered if the dees went with another KF.

[Maddog37]

Hawthorn would be mental to let him go solely based on the marketing dollars alone.

I would love to see the Hawks fans being unable to crap on about Buddy this and Buddy that though. Wonder if they would turn on him big time?

[Topdog]

I know you addressed it already in a sense but Clarko starting after a season of huge losses instead of being the coach at the start of the big losses is a big difference. There also was improvement in the Hawks from 04 to 05 which is important.

We arent seeing that improvement yet.

[westdog54]

Bump.

Thoughts?

[LostDoggy]

Bump.

Thoughts?

Officially: Im pleased with our progress, not wanting to get carried away, we've lots of work to do.

Unofficially: You've nailed it.