Cameron Ling - Bulldogs building to a flag

[bornadog]

link (http://www.sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/cameron-lingbulldogs-building-to-a-flag-236340)

The Western Bulldogs have drawn a lot of criticism for winning just one of their past 19 matches but in reality coach Brendan McCartney is putting together the building blocks for a premiership tilt in five-to-six years' time.

At the moment a win-loss record is irrelevant for a team like the Bulldogs. Improvement and development of the young players is what matters. Not how many games they've won.

The number one thing which sells memberships, sponsorships and gets bums on seats is the team winning games. But you have to go through this hurt now to potentially have a team not just winning games but winning premierships, which of course if going to set the club up forever.

While their faith may be currently tested by the short-term results, Bulldogs supporters have something to believe in at the moment and the key signs are positive.

The reality is that this is a bunch of kids who have been taught from scratch how to play AFL footy and they are getting certain important parts of their game right.

They have won six out of eight matches in terms of contested ball, but they just don't know how to then transfer the ball downfield and have not been able to sustain good footy for entire games.

For them, that's the next piece of the puzzle. Once that comes, the wins will flow. It's not reasonable to think that young players can learn and execute that within six months.

The alternative model is more akin to what Melbourne have embarked on.

But I'm not exactly sure if I was a Melbourne supporter if I would know what my team stood for. Are we asking our young players to develop or are we trying to trade good opposition into our club and work that plan?

Clearly with the second part, you've got experienced players like David Rodan and Cam Pedersen who aren't playing. It's all over the shop.

You can build something that is smoke and mirrors and you get players in here and there, use the free agency market to nut out a few wins. You might end up winning 10-12 games a year, but you are never going to win a premiership.

Do you want a team which wins 10 games a year or a team which is built from scratch to win a premiership in six years' time?

What Brendan McCartney is trying to do is build a team up on a basis of contested ball and defence and as they develop they can add in the outside ball use and the great skills. He is backing that to happen over time.

From my experience, that works. It worked at Geelong in the early 2000s and it can work at the Bulldogs.

He is teaching them the right way to play and then as they develop and mature they will see the game better, their skills get better and they are able to sustain intensity, their ball movement and their outside play will grow with that and then they become a very good team.

Imagine what they can do when can put the next link in the chain together where they have composure and experience to use the footy better.

The question that every fan of a struggling club should ask is, 'Are we thinking about a premiership in five years or not?' To me the Bulldogs have got their eye on a flag and they are committed to that path.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's a good read and I respect Ling. There's no arguing with what he's saying, and most supporters would nod their heads and agree but when you look into our performances deeper that's when more specific (and worrying) questions pop up that ultimately will need answering sooner before later.

[LostDoggy]

The crux of the article represents the calmness that Bulldogs supporters need. As hard as that is, with our lack of success, the draft rebuild and trading for players in the right age group is the way forward and i agree with it.

What we are doing now is something we've never fully implemented as afr as i can recall. To our own sense of pride, but also our own detrement, weve never bottomed out for extended period since the National Draft has been in existence.

We've ruined a number of drafts toward the mid-late 2000's. That's happened, deal with it. It just wasn't a factor until now becuase we had a core of players that were still in their peak and the draft faults weren't identified.


2010 we got blessed somewhat with the F/S picks of Libba and Mitch. We got Dalhaus in the rookie draft.
2011 we got Michael Talia, Clay Smith, Fletcher Roberts, Pearce and Dickson.
2012 we've picked up Stringer, Macrae, Stevens, Young, along with Hunter, Hrovat and Prudden.
2013 we're going to get at least another two picks inside the first round, maybe a priority pick also.

These players have all shown varying levels of return, but most supporters i've spoken to have been positive about all of them and the levels they're currently at. Out of these bunch of recruits i can't think of one i'd consider delisting. mixed in there are Vez, Howard the year before, but no actual failures in the last three years.

I think we're on the right path. Its unknown territory to push for a rebuild for a the long term (actually short term) goal of the cup in such a manner. All i know is nothing has worked in 60 years so far.

[Mantis]

Former Geelong player backs former Geelong (assistant) coach... Hold the press!!

[whythelongface]

Whilst I agree with what Lingy is saying and that the approach we are taking is heading in the right direction the cynic in me agrees with Mantis in regards to this article.

[bornadog]

At least its a positive article unlike the rest this week.

[Throughandthrough]

Hooray! We are gonna win the flag!


I hope Lingy's correct!


And agree, yay for some positive opinions.

[bulldogtragic]

Former Geelong player backs former Geelong (assistant) coach... Hold the press!!
That was my first thought too.

[bornadog]

Dermots take on the dogs listen here at 3.30 mark (http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Dermott-Brereton-on-the-Bulldogs/7977)

[BornInDroopSt'54]

No doubt that Bmac has earnt heaps of respect and loyalty from his time at Geelong and Ling is clearly going in to battle for Bmac. Regardless, he no doubt believes in Bmac and his plan and what we are doing.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Dermots take on the dogs listen here at 3.30 mark (http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Dermott-Brereton-on-the-Bulldogs/7977)






Dermott thought injuries play a part in our current form and that we are "the best of the bottom four". So basically he was just patronising us.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Whilst I agree with what Lingy is saying and that the approach we are taking is heading in the right direction the cynic in me agrees with Mantis in regards to this article.
I disagree. I think you will find it comes from the enormous respect that BMcC was held in at Geelong.

[Happy Days]

They have won six out of eight matches in terms of contested ball, but they just don't know how to then transfer the ball downfield and have not been able to sustain good footy for entire games.


I'm sick of hearing this being pointed to as a positive indication of development. If you overcrowd every contest then of course you are going to win the contested ball.

[Remi Moses]

We're probably a little worse off, but in a similar spot The Cats were when Thompson took over.
May well be a mate sticking up for a mate, but Ling's bang on about Melbourne.
They recruited for a spike and it's failed.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm sick of hearing this being pointed to as a positive indication of development. If you overcrowd every contest then of course you are going to win the contested ball.
That makes at least two of us.

[Ghost Dog]

Former Geelong player backs former Geelong (assistant) coach... Hold the press!!

Rangers of a feather stick together ( and I'm a ranger too :D )

[Ghost Dog]

Dermots take on the dogs listen here at 3.30 mark (http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/Dermott-Brereton-on-the-Bulldogs/7977)

Keeps talking about Brisbane last week V Dogs. What's he smoking? Too many knocks in the head.

[MrMahatma]

I'm sick of hearing this being pointed to as a positive indication of development. If you overcrowd every contest then of course you are going to win the contested ball.
If you don't have it, you can't score. And at least our guys are getting to contests.

At the moment, how you view it really depends in if you're a glass half-full or empty kind of fan.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm sick of hearing this being pointed to as a positive indication of development. If you overcrowd every contest then of course you are going to win the contested ball.

Don't disagree, but I think with some subtle changes this aspect and the spread can work together well. The cornerstone is that every player on the list will be backed in to put their head over the ball and win the contested situation. This will stand up in finals.

Getting a better balance, where players can instinctively know, (for example) Libba will beat his man in this contest so Griff can sneak 5m clear to receive is where the improvement lies. At the moment the balance isn't quite right. Once it is, I don't expect it will have too much influence on our contested ball numbers.

[Happy Days]

Don't disagree, but I think with some subtle changes this aspect and the spread can work together well. The cornerstone is that every player on the list will be backed in to put their head over the ball and win the contested situation. This will stand up in finals.

Getting a better balance, where players can instinctively know, (for example) Libba will beat his man in this contest so Griff can sneak 5m clear to receive is where the improvement lies. At the moment the balance isn't quite right. Once it is, I don't expect it will have too much influence on our contested ball numbers.

Are you worried that our younger players will get too complacent with always having numbers at stoppages, and once the numbers are stripped back/spread is improved that the contested ball numbers will dip?

Has the potential to be a vicious cycle.

[GVGjr]

Former Geelong player backs former Geelong (assistant) coach... Hold the press!!


So you think what he has said is compromised because of his association with McCartney?

I'm just not sure what the upside is for him to do it unless he actually believed it.

[LostDoggy]

So you think what he has said is compromised because of his association with McCartney?
I think so, and it's not just Ling
Not sure of what went on when Mac was at Geelong. But it is starting to get frustrating listening to every person associated with Geelong blow wind up B Macs bum.
The funny thing too is I agree with them.

[The Doctor]

So you think what he has said is compromised because of his association with McCartney?

I'm just not sure what the upside is for him to do it unless he actually believed it.

I am led to believe Ling was offered a coaching role at the dogs by Macca but declined (for now) to try out in the media. Who knows where the future lies for him??

[Mantis]

So you think what he has said is compromised because of his association with McCartney?



The 'man-love' Lingy shows towards McCartney when in his role as a boundary rider is almost cringe-worthy.

[LostDoggy]

Former Geelong player backs former Geelong (assistant) coach... Hold the press!!

Seasoned (and perhaps a wee bit jaded?) WOOF poster rejects a favourable assessment of McCartney purely due to past association rather than addressing the actual points raised… Hold the press!

[lemmon]

The 'man-love' Lingy shows towards McCartney when in his role as a boundary rider is almost cringe-worthy.

And towards most people even remotely involved with Geelong. Harley's the same

[westdog54]

Seasoned (and perhaps a wee bit jaded?) WOOF poster rejects a favourable assessment of McCartney purely due to past association rather than addressing the actual points raised… Hold the press!

Touche.

[jeemak]

Are you worried that our younger players will get too complacent with always having numbers at stoppages, and once the numbers are stripped back/spread is improved that the contested ball numbers will dip?

Has the potential to be a vicious cycle.

You'd think if we're smart enough to know that it's an incomplete game style those at the club and associated with the club and its players would know it as well.

Good teams understand the specific roles each player within them are to play. If I was building a side the first non-negotiable would be that every single player on the list fights tooth and nail to win it in the first place. Some players are going to consistently win contests, while others will need assistance from team mates to do so, and should expect help from their team mates who understand that.

As systems for ball movement, defending and overall positioning evolve the playing group should become adaptable to individual circumstances within the parameters of the overall plan.

This will be learned throughout games, but a few preseasons need to be worked through to refine it.

I have absolutely no doubt that if the players are taught correctly, the continuation of flooding contests in a one-dimensional fashion won't be something we'll have to worry about.

[LostDoggy]

Cameron Ling has captained a premiership side. He is a credible and reliable commentator, and a coach in waiting should he decide to go that way. He knows his footy and has a lot to lose by making rash statements. Those who take issue with his opinion on our potential do so at their peril. I back him over anybody on this board.

It's refreshing to hear something positive about us and our journey. And encouraging that many here get it.

However, it's disappointing to realise that there are so many people who identify with the Bulldogs who will take any opportunity to argue against us and the path we are taking, and in doing so declare that they know more about what it takes to win a premiership than Lingy does. [To all those... Finey's on till 12, I'm sure he would take your call and agree with you :)]

Get on board, everybody! Open your eyes to the possibility that Ling and others, like Chris Grant, are right and you're not. Enjoy the ride as our youngsters grow, harden and learn what it takes to win a flag.

MrMahatma, I am definitely in the half full club and look forward to a growing wave of optimism as the work we're doing now bears fruit in the next couple of years and all the half empties start to move towards the light.

[Doc26]

2010 we got blessed somewhat with the F/S picks of Libba and Mitch. We got Dalhaus in the rookie draft.
2011 we got Michael Talia, Clay Smith, Fletcher Roberts, Pearce and Dickson.
2012 we've picked up Stringer, Macrae, Stevens, Young, along with Hunter, Hrovat and Prudden.
2013 we're going to get at least another two picks inside the first round, maybe a priority pick also.

Ok. I must be missing something MRM and have to ask as the suspense is killing me. How are we getting at least another two picks inside the first round and maybe a priority to go with it with it in 2013 ?

[LostDoggy]

Ok. I must be missing something MRM and have to ask as the suspense is killing me. How are we getting at least another two picks inside the first round and maybe a priority to go with it with it in 2013 ?

Sorry Doc, put my hand up on that one. I meant inside the first 20'ish. Although if Coons leaves as a restricted free agent we should get a 1st rd DP as compo based on what Saints got for Goddard (they got pick 13 from memory, they're both the same age, Coons is a Brownlow medalist, but Goddard would be on a better contract moving forward.

Pick for finish: 1-3
Priority Pick *: surely in or at end of first round if eventuates
Cooney compensation *: Late first round
Second round pick: 20-23

* if occurs

That could be four picks in the top 25 of this years draft. Later ones could be used to upgrade earlier picks.

[FrediKanoute]

link (http://www.sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/cameron-lingbulldogs-building-to-a-flag-236340)

The Western Bulldogs have drawn a lot of criticism for winning just one of their past 19 matches but in reality coach Brendan McCartney is putting together the building blocks for a premiership tilt in five-to-six years' time.


Christ this time frame just keeps getting longer and longer.....

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sorry Doc, put my hand up on that one. I meant inside the first 20'ish. Although if Coons leaves as a restricted free agent we should get a 1st rd DP as compo based on what Saints got for Goddard (they got pick 13 from memory, they're both the same age, Coons is a Brownlow medalist, but Goddard would be on a better contract moving forward.

Pick for finish: 1-3
Priority Pick *: surely in or at end of first round if eventuates
Cooney compensation *: Late first roundSecond round pick: 20-23

* if occurs

That could be four picks in the top 25 of this years draft. Later ones could be used to upgrade earlier picks.

These are at best a remote chance IMO. Even if Cooney does leave they will have scrapped FA compo picks i reckon.

Our priority pick chances, dare i say, would hinge on our results against Melbourne. I can't see the AFL handing out compo picks to both us and Melbourne. Which is really annoyng considering Melbourne dug their own grave

[LostDoggy]

These are at best a remote chance IMO. Even if Cooney does leave they will have scrapped FA compo picks i reckon.

Our priority pick chances, dare i say, would hinge on our results against Melbourne. I can't see the AFL handing out compo picks to both us and Melbourne. Which is really annoyng considering Melbourne dug their own grave

You believe they'll be scraping the FA compos before this draft (in for one season) ?

The AFL can still grant Priority picks on a discretionary basis.
Agree, and doubt they would hand out to both us and Melbourne, but 'for the reputation of the game' Melbourne decision aside, we've never tanked.

[Mantis]

Seasoned (and perhaps a wee bit jaded?) WOOF poster rejects a favourable assessment of McCartney purely due to past association rather than addressing the actual points raised… Hold the press!

Jaded?? Of course I am. :rolleyes:

So let's focus on the actual points then.


link (http://www.sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/cameron-lingbulldogs-building-to-a-flag-236340)

The Western Bulldogs have drawn a lot of criticism for winning just one of their past 19 matches but in reality coach Brendan McCartney is putting together the building blocks for a premiership tilt in five-to-six years' time..

That means from when Eade starting blooding new players in 2011 it would have taken 8 or 9 years to get back into the top 4... Surely not!


At the moment a win-loss record is irrelevant for a team like the Bulldogs.

It's hugely relevant... I hate going to the footy to watch my team lose... If they continue to lose I will probably choose to miss a few games... Others will do the same.. A team like us can't afford to have low attendances.


Improvement and development of the young players is what matters. Not how many games they've won.

So who fits into this category? JJ & Roughead have improved - who else?


The number one thing which sells memberships, sponsorships and gets bums on seats is the team winning games. But you have to go through this hurt now to potentially have a team not just winning games but winning premierships, which of course if going to set the club up forever.

Where is it written that you have to go through hurt in order to succeed?


While their faith may be currently tested by the short-term results, Bulldogs supporters have something to believe in at the moment and the key signs are positive.

The reality is that this is a bunch of kids who have been taught from scratch how to play AFL footy and they are getting certain important parts of their game right.

They have won six out of eight matches in terms of contested ball, but they just don't know how to then transfer the ball downfield and have not been able to sustain good footy for entire games.

For them, that's the next piece of the puzzle. Once that comes, the wins will flow. It's not reasonable to think that young players can learn and execute that within six months.

When your team is chock full of contested types you are going to win your fair share of contests... Issue is that most of these players have poor skills. If the coaching staff can teach these guys how to kick they are miracle workers.


The alternative model is more akin to what Melbourne have embarked on.

But I'm not exactly sure if I was a Melbourne supporter if I would know what my team stood for. Are we asking our young players to develop or are we trying to trade good opposition into our club and work that plan?

Clearly with the second part, you've got experienced players like David Rodan and Cam Pedersen who aren't playing. It's all over the shop.

Melbouren also drafted in Viney, Toumpass & Hogan last year so it wasn't all bad... Rodan & Pederson haven't worked, but it cost them *!*!*!*! all... Dawes & Byrnes have been good, but Lingy chose not to mention them to suit his arguement.



What Brendan McCartney is trying to do is build a team up on a basis of contested ball and defence and as they develop they can add in the outside ball use and the great skills. He is backing that to happen over time.

From my experience, that works. It worked at Geelong in the early 2000s and it can work at the Bulldogs.

He is teaching them the right way to play and then as they develop and mature they will see the game better, their skills get better and they are able to sustain intensity, their ball movement and their outside play will grow with that and then they become a very good team.

Imagine what they can do when can put the next link in the chain together where they have composure and experience to use the footy better.

The question that every fan of a struggling club should ask is, 'Are we thinking about a premiership in five years or not?' To me the Bulldogs have got their eye on a flag and they are committed to that path.

I think we can all see what the coaching staff are trying to do... it's plainly obvious, but as we can see at present winning the contested ball isn't everything, especially for the top 4 teams. Will it change back in 5 years time when we are thought to be a contender, who knows, but many of the players McCartney has brought into the club or had when he started are best suited to a hard tough game (think Wallis, Libba, Smith, Lower & Stevens), and I have serious doubts if many of them can develop into the types of players we need them to be. ie. inside-outside.


Touche.

How very apt that you put your 2 cents in... Tosser!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You believe they'll be scraping the FA compos before this draft (in for one season) ?

The AFL can still grant Priority picks on a discretionary basis.
Agree, and doubt they would hand out to both us and Melbourne, but 'for the reputation of the game' Melbourne decision aside, we've never tanked.

If not this season it will be the next. You wouldn't think they would bring it in during the current season, but these sort of things tend to go against us and there has been a fair bit spoken about getting rid of it (mostly from player agents though). In any case i can't see Cooney leaving

[Mofra]

Worthy of discussion:

That means from when Eade starting blooding new players in 2011 it would have taken 8 or 9 years to get back into the top 4... Surely not!
Given the drafting gap we had (multiple years back to back failures by Clayton) and the concessions given to GCS & GWS, circumstances aren't normal.

If you think our list is good, then fair enough - I see significant holes across the paddock.


It's hugely relevant... I hate going to the footy to watch my team lose... If they continue to lose I will probably choose to miss a few games... Others will do the same.. A team like us can't afford to have low attendances.
It is relevant, but athe moment process is more relevant. We do need wins to validate the process as it stands, but we are a bottom four side.


So who fits into this category? JJ & Roughead have improved - who else?
In 2 years? I'd say almost every player on our list under 25.
Grant and Howard are the two younger types that spring to mind that have gone backwards - and Grant was only ever icing when he was playign on D5 or D6 - much like Josh Hill.


Where is it written that you have to go through hurt in order to succeed?
Probably the same place it says a team without a significant USP can stay top four forever.


When your team is chock full of contested types you are going to win your fair share of contests... Issue is that most of these players have poor skills. If the coaching staff can teach these guys how to kick they are miracle workers.
If contested ball is a non negotiable and we're building "from the inside out" then I can understand that phase 1 of the plan will be on winning contests.

We are deliberately putting ourselves under pressure with mistakes which reduces our DE - pressure kicks and poor ball movements concertina until we turn the ball over.
Again, I disagree that it's simply a coaching issue - I think we need to bring better players onto the list and develop the youngsters we have.


Melbouren also drafted in Viney, Toumpass & Hogan last year so it wasn't all bad... Rodan & Pederson haven't worked, but it cost them *!*!*!*! all... Dawes & Byrnes have been good, but Lingy chose not to mention them to suit his arguement.
If Melbourne are our benchmark, I believe we are ahead of them. The three you've highlighted look quality, but their record with first rounders in the past 5-6 years makes Clayton's 2000s at the Bulldogs look positively genius.
Scully, Cook, Morton, Gysberts.... they mirror our Power/Walsh/Everitt era


I think we can all see what the coaching staff are trying to do... it's plainly obvious, but as we can see at present winning the contested ball isn't everything, especially for the top 4 teams. Will it change back in 5 years time when we are thought to be a contender, who knows, but many of the players McCartney has brought into the club or had when he started are best suited to a hard tough game (think Wallis, Libba, Smith, Lower & Stevens), and I have serious doubts if many of them can develop into the types of players we need them to be. ie. inside-outside.
So our gameplan is designed to play to the strengths of the list? I don't believe that's a bad thing as a developing side.
The proof in the pudding will be how the team changes over the next 12-18 months - can we develop the run & spread which is the next phase of development?
If we're going to hang B-Mac, hang him on that - not performance thus far.


How very apt that you put your 2 cents in... Tosser!
Woof is better than this.

[Mofra]

Sorry Doc, put my hand up on that one. I meant inside the first 20'ish. Although if Coons leaves as a restricted free agent we should get a 1st rd DP as compo based on what Saints got for Goddard (they got pick 13 from memory, they're both the same age, Coons is a Brownlow medalist, but Goddard would be on a better contract moving forward.
If we get the same compo pick for Cooney as the Saints got for Goddard, as it stands that would be pick 4 (pick in the first round immediately after a team's first pick).

If this year's draft wasn't already compromised (Hogan & Martin off the table) I'd would actually be tempted, as much as I'd love to keep Cooney.

[LostDoggy]

That means from when Eade starting blooding new players in 2011 it would have taken 8 or 9 years to get back into the top 4... Surely not!

To win a flag, not top 4. You really need to be pushing top four in multiple years to be real chance.


It's hugely relevant... I hate going to the footy to watch my team lose... If they continue to lose I will probably choose to miss a few games... Others will do the same.. A team like us can't afford to have low attendances.

We're going to have low attendances anyway. Six to eight more wins isn't going to change that.


Where is it written that you have to go through hurt in order to succeed?

In just about every success manual ever written.

Success is merely perseverance.


I think we can all see what the coaching staff are trying to do... it's plainly obvious, but as we can see at present winning the contested ball isn't everything, especially for the top 4 teams. Will it change back in 5 years time when we are thought to be a contender, who knows, but many of the players McCartney has brought into the club or had when he started are best suited to a hard tough game (think Wallis, Libba, Smith, Lower & Stevens), and I have serious doubts if many of them can develop into the types of players we need them to be. ie. inside-outside.

That's just it though — we have to wait and see. Which is why you can't write them off now.


How very apt that you put your 2 cents in... Tosser!

This is a forum. We all out our two cents in. I reckon I should get 20 cents, but anyway… ;)

[boydogs]

That means from when Eade starting blooding new players in 2011 it would have taken 8 or 9 years to get back into the top 4... Surely not!

Is 8 or 9 years all that unusual? Especially if you go down the path of supplementing your list with mature age players for a flag tilt instead of drafting normally. The oldest player on your list in those circumstances is almost your first draftee after your window closes.

We were up there in 85, 97 and 09, that's 12 years between drinks.

[ReLoad]

Is 8 or 9 years all that unusual? Especially if you go down the path of supplementing your list with mature age players for a flag tilt instead of drafting normally. The oldest player on your list in those circumstances is almost your first draftee after your window closes.

We were up there in 85, 97 and 09, that's 12 years between drinks.

'92 was a good year too.

[LostDoggy]

2010 we got blessed somewhat with the F/S picks of Libba and Mitch. We got Dalhaus in the rookie draft.
2011 we got Michael Talia, Clay Smith, Fletcher Roberts, Pearce and Dickson.
2012 we've picked up Stringer, Macrae, Stevens, Young, along with Hunter, Hrovat and Prudden.
2013 we're going to get at least another two picks inside the first round, maybe a priority pick also.
How come we will get another two first round picks? Do we still have an extra owing to us?

[1eyedog]

Since when has Sydney gone through hurt? Two GF inside 7 years and never bottomed out? Good drafting and list management (and a good living away.from home allowance) has worked wonders.

[GVGjr]

Since when has Sydney gone through hurt? Two GF inside 7 years and never bottomed out? Good drafting and list management (and a good living away.from home allowance) has worked wonders.

They manage things so well off the field as well which I think a lot of people miss.
Having senior coaches like Rocket then Roos and Longmuire and an assistant like Lyon has to be a huge help to keeping a side focused.
On top of that they have a great President.

The extra money is one thing but they have been a solid unit for many years.

[LostDoggy]

They manage things so well off the field as well which I think a lot of people miss.
Having senior coaches like Rocket then Roos and Longmuire and an assistant like Lyon has to be a huge help to keeping a side focused.
On top of that they have a great President.

The extra money is one thing but they have been a solid unit for many years.

Good post. I think too much has been made of their salary cap allowance and not enough of their club culture. Definitely one of my lesser-hated opposition teams.

Their supporters (in my experience) have also been fairly decent.

[G-Mo77]

Good post. I think too much has been made of their salary cap allowance and not enough of their club culture. Definitely one of my lesser-hated opposition teams.


It's a combination of both IMO. If they didn't have the extra salary cap Mumford would have probably stayed at Geelong, Tippett wouldn't be there and a few other players who are there or have gone there and since retired may have stayed at their original clubs. It's a huge leg up on most of the competition.