David Kings Solution to Our Predicament

[bulldogtragic]

On 360 a couple of nights ago, David King was asked how he would proceed if he was in control of the dogs. I'll simplfy it, but it is essentially the following:

Pay the minimum allowable under the player payments. That is 92.5 or 95 % of the salary cap.

Therefore, you allow big salaries to leave or trade. You free up hundreds of thousands and you then hire extra development coaches and expert recruiters. Getting better recruits who are better developed. As they flourish, results improve, revenue improves and as that happens you keep your talent by paying the free 5% in higher salaries.

Thoughts?

He said Richmond did this a few years ago and have got a better club structure and players like Cotchin and Martin, who they can afford to keep by paying market value. Results have improved.

He said Melbourne have done the opposite, traded for big names, paying over market odds and having a weaker footy department. Results are still poor.

Thoughts again?

[PedroArvy]

Is it that hard to recruit i.e you have to spend mega $$$ on an expert? I wouldn't have though so. I only watch the odd AFL game and its obvious who I'd recruit at AFL level if I could. If you are watching the VFL/junior stuff full time it should be obvious too.

[bulldogtragic]

Edit: Apparently Gordo has said we will not do this tonight.

[Bulldog4life]

Edit: Apparently Gordo has said we will not do this tonight.

That's correct BT. He said that we will be paying 100% of the salary cap from next year onwards. We are only paying 95% at the moment.

[GVGjr]

Edit: Apparently Gordo has said we will not do this tonight.


He said it a couple of days ago on 3AW.

Kings idea is something clubs have employed in the past. Drop the salary payments to the minimum, maybe even being one player player short, and invest in additional coaching resources to train a young group. Senior player asks for a trade and take draft picks to strengthen the list. As the players develop the club has room in the cap to pay more to the ones they want to keep.

In essence, he is saying that we need to shop someone like Cooney around and take a pick in the 20's for him. With Cooney being out of contract though it's not really an option.

We won't trade Griffen and most of the others we could potentially trade won't gain us picks in the 2nd round.

Good concept but maybe not that applicable for a club like ours given players and other clubs have the free agency option.

[bornadog]

He said it a couple of days ago on 3AW.

Kings idea is something clubs have employed in the past. Drop the salary payments to the minimum, maybe even being one player player short, and invest in additional coaching resources to train a young group. Senior player asks for a trade and take draft picks to strengthen the list. As the players develop the club has room in the cap to pay more to the ones they want to keep.

In essence, he is saying that we need to shop someone like Cooney around and take a pick in the 20's for him. With Cooney being out of contract though it's not really an option.

We won't trade Griffen and most of the others we could potentially trade won't gain us picks in the 2nd round.

Good concept but maybe not that applicable for a club like ours given players and other clubs have the free agency option.

We have also started to spend more in the football department anyway. This year we will be up around the $17 million mark.

[Topdog]

That's correct BT. He said that we will be paying 100% of the salary cap from next year onwards. We are only paying 95% at the moment.

Who on Earth are we giving the money to?

[bulldogtragic]

He said it a couple of days ago on 3AW.

Kings idea is something clubs have employed in the past. Drop the salary payments to the minimum, maybe even being one player player short, and invest in additional coaching resources to train a young group. Senior player asks for a trade and take draft picks to strengthen the list. As the players develop the club has room in the cap to pay more to the ones they want to keep.

In essence, he is saying that we need to shop someone like Cooney around and take a pick in the 20's for him. With Cooney being out of contract though it's not really an option.

We won't trade Griffen and most of the others we could potentially trade won't gain us picks in the 2nd round.

Good concept but maybe not that applicable for a club like ours given players and other clubs have the free agency option.
So does that mean we are a little more Melbourne than Richmond??

[Rocco Jones]

Takes a bit of trust in players but what about 'front loading' contracts? Give gun youngsters bigger bucks in earlier years of long term contract to free up cap space in 3-5 years time where hopefully we will have a decent list.

Works for players too as money now beats money later, allowing you to buy property, invest, interest etc. Obvious issue is motivation for guys going into remaining years on less money but gotta pick the right individuals.

[boydogs]

Pay the minimum allowable under the player payments. That is 92.5 or 95 % of the salary cap.

Therefore, you allow big salaries to leave or trade. You free up hundreds of thousands and you then hire extra development coaches and expert recruiters. Getting better recruits who are better developed. As they flourish, results improve, revenue improves and as that happens you keep your talent by paying the free 5% in higher salaries.


We have also started to spend more in the football department anyway. This year we will be up around the $17 million mark.

Yeah we've already beefed up our coaching ranks very significantly. We're also getting our own VFL side. Doing everything we can to develop our large group of kids already.

[Bulldog4life]

Who on Earth are we giving the money to?

According to Peter and without quoting him word for word we will be looking at a franchise player with the extra money. We will be heavily into the FA's. No names mentioned.

[Remi Moses]

Dermie the other night on League teams looked down the barrel of the camera and said"doggie fans you're not as bad as Melbourne". Basically said we're passing down the baton from a group of champions to a new generation. Although he does waffle on I reckon he's one of the games better judges.
On another positive I'm happy the clubs going to be a player in F/A.

[GVGjr]

So does that mean we are a little more Melbourne than Richmond??

Different to both but a guess we are closer to what Richmond have done.

I think we made the hard decision on Lake last year but haven't really got many other options or trade currency to acquire draft picks given our aging list and because players have the free agency option.

What we have though is some nice young talent that is being developed and some savvy drafting and free agency pick-ups that will further improve our list over the short term.

This is shaping up as big year for us in the draft, trades and free agency periods. If we nail our draft picks and acquire a quality player through the trade or FA we can quickly improve.

[westdog54]

Dermie the other night on League teams looked down the barrel of the camera and said"doggie fans you're not as bad as Melbourne". Basically said we're passing down the baton from a group of champions to a new generation. Although he does waffle on I reckon he's one of the games better judges.
On another positive I'm happy the clubs going to be a player in F/A.

I have a lot of time for Dermie and his thoughts on the game. He could be a bit more succinct at times but he's rarely one to resort to mindless hysteria like some of his contemporaries.

[stefoid]

According to Peter and without quoting him word for word we will be looking at a franchise player with the extra money. We will be heavily into the FA's. No names mentioned.

Did he actually say franchise player?

We need to do to the Suns/GWS what they did to us and put a wheel barrow full of cash in front of a bonefide young up and comer.

Suns?
Dion Prestia? This would be revenge and a good fit. He should already have a $400K/yr deal in front of him from us. All the clubs need to keep shaking the expansion club tree to shake players loose.

GWS?
Nick Haynes: a tallish (191cm?) mid/forward. Dont know if he is any chop, but he will be out of contract and went at #7 in 2011. Supposedly good work rate and great hands. Dare we go after another tall player from the Dandenong stingrays?

Taylor Adams. Will be a very good inside player, but.. Shouldnt be our #1 target for that reason. Would improve our list though and Macca would love him. Would take him if nobody else was available.

Brisbane?
Sam Dochety: Skilled half back, playmaker type. Fills a need. Picken and Goodes are just keeping small defender spots warm for longer term replacements that we dont have yet.

[Cyberdoggie]

We need run and carry through the middle and for counter attack, and players that can run all game.

That's the way the game is today and the way it is heading with further rule changes.

I think it's a lot harder to find real quality in these types of players, in particular if are outside the top 10 picks or so. They are often very slightly built compared to others and haven't matured yet. Not as easy to spot as a dominant inside mid he gets plenty of the ball.

[Bulldog4life]

Did he actually say franchise player?

We need to do to the Suns/GWS what they did to us and put a wheel barrow full of cash in front of a bonefide young up and comer.

Suns?
Dion Prestia? This would be revenge and a good fit. He should already have a $400K/yr deal in front of him from us. All the clubs need to keep shaking the expansion club tree to shake players loose.

GWS?
Nick Haynes: a tallish (191cm?) mid/forward. Dont know if he is any chop, but he will be out of contract and went at #7 in 2011. Supposedly good work rate and great hands. Dare we go after another tall player from the Dandenong stingrays?

Taylor Adams. Will be a very good inside player, but.. Shouldnt be our #1 target for that reason. Would improve our list though and Macca would love him. Would take him if nobody else was available.

Brisbane?
Sam Dochety: Skilled half back, playmaker type. Fills a need. Picken and Goodes are just keeping small defender spots warm for longer term replacements that we dont have yet.

Not 100% sure it could have been said by the Channel 7 news reporter. But Peter was emphatic that we would be heavily involved in recruiting a top FA and we will be spending 100% of the salary cap from next year onwards.

[Twodogs]

On 360 a couple of nights ago, David King was asked how he would proceed if he was in control of the dogs. I'll simplfy it, but it is essentially the following:

Pay the minimum allowable under the player payments. That is 92.5 or 95 % of the salary cap.

Therefore, you allow big salaries to leave or trade. You free up hundreds of thousands and you then hire extra development coaches and expert recruiters. Getting better recruits who are better developed. As they flourish, results improve, revenue improves and as that happens you keep your talent by paying the free 5% in higher salaries.

Thoughts?

He said Richmond did this a few years ago and have got a better club structure and players like Cotchin and Martin, who they can afford to keep by paying market value. Results have improved.

He said Melbourne have done the opposite, traded for big names, paying over market odds and having a weaker footy department. Results are still poor.

Thoughts again?

I wonder where Kingy got his ideas from?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-have-had-plenty-of-recruiting-mistakes-but-they-are-the-butt-of-all-jokes-no-more/story-fni5f9jb-1226647921166

I'm not saying that there arent some good ideas in amongst "his" thoughts but if I'm going to cut and paste my opiinions about footy then I'd be choosing someone other than Robbo (who is little short of a moron) to do it from.



Dion Prestia? This would be revenge and a good fit. He should already have a $400K/yr deal in front of him from us. All the clubs need to keep shaking the expansion club tree to shake players loose

I really liked Prestia's game last week. I thought he showed great leadership and that's something we sadly lack. I'd offer him a bucketload of cash and the captaincy to come to the bulldogs.

[Maddog37]

Don't agree sorry TD. The captaincy needs to be earned.

[ledge]

Don't agree sorry TD. The captaincy needs to be earned.

Yes we aren't Carlton where a player comes in with no background at the club and takes te captaincy from players who have given all to the club and were vice captain only to see an outsider take the job

[Happy Days]

Taylor Adams. Will be a very good inside player, but.. Shouldnt be our #1 target for that reason. Would improve our list though and Macca would love him. Would take him if nobody else was available.



Would he fit the 'quality person' mantra?

[comrade]

I think we were pretty keen on Prestia in his draft year.

[jazzadogs]

I think we were pretty keen on Prestia in his draft year.
Good mates (or at least played with) Wallis and Libba I think?

[EasternWest]

Yes we aren't Carlton where a player comes in with no background at the club and takes te captaincy from players who have given all to the club and were vice captain only to see an outsider take the job


Don't agree sorry TD. The captaincy needs to be earned.

In principle, I agree with this sentiment.

In reality, who do we have as a leader that is ready to be Captain when Boyd is done?

At this juncture, if we got a gun player on the promise of captaincy, I'd do it.

[wimberga]

Good mates (or at least played with) Wallis and Libba I think?

Correct - Prestia is from out my way and would be a nice compliment. Came out of the Calder Cannons factory.

[bornadog]

Correct - Presita is from out my way and would be a nice compliment. Came out of the Calder Cannons factory.

South Carolina :eek: :D:D

[stefoid]

Would he fit the 'quality person' mantra?

Dont know, but he has a reputation for hard work etc... Getting high 20s posessions the last couple of weeks for GWS.

Prestia, followed by Haynes would hav to be our priority targets from the randomly ignorant list I just made. I was just going on who is out of contract at the end of the year, and there aint that many this year, unfortuantely.

[wimberga]

South Carolina :eek: :D:D

Probably should update that. But everything's finer in South Carolina....

Time to go to the game!

[Bulldog Revolution]

I haven't ever thought much of Kings work and this hasn't changed my opinion. Still seems like a bloke desperately looking for an assistant coaching role. What is he saying? Trade Cooney for a pick? Haven't we already used that strategy and traded Lake?

I like that we've held onto great senior players and role models for young guys to play with and learn from.

Cooney adds to much of what we need when fit (elite, speed and explosiveness) in my eyes to trade for a pick 20+.

[bornadog]

I haven't ever thought much of Kings work and this hasn't changed my opinion. Still seems like a bloke desperately looking for an assistant coaching role. What is he saying? Trade Cooney for a pick? Haven't we already used that strategy and traded Lake?

I like that we've held onto great senior players and role models for young guys to play with and learn from.

Cooney adds to much of what we need when fit (elite, speed and explosiveness) in my eyes to trade for a pick 20+.

I think David is a fantastic analyst of the game. He never said we should trade Cooney.

Basically he said:

1. Teams in a rebuild phase should only pay 92% of the cap and spend the remainder on the footy department on better coaches, recruitment etc

2. If players like Cooney want to leave the club to pursue a premiership dream, then maybe the club should allow it and its a win win - free up cap, get early draft picks.

[Guido]

According to Peter and without quoting him word for word we will be looking at a franchise player with the extra money. We will be heavily into the FA's. No names mentioned.
Why get involved in direct strategy? "It's not for me to comment on, our football department will decide the best path to take at the appropriate time" .. FFS, it's not that hard.

The president coming out and saying we'll be targeting franchise players or free agents put undue pressure on those below him to execute the call. If the right players aren't available at the right price, then the best course if action could very well be to do nothing and let the list develop naturally from within - why this is such a foreign concept to some people at the top (especially when there's a mountain of evidence to support the strategy), I'll never know.

Reminds me of Smorgon coming out on SEN guaranteeing the supporters that the club would get an established, ready to go player in return for Nathan Brown. To ensure that guarantee was met, the footy department got so desperate that it got to the point of offering pick 6 for Mark Bolton.

What Gordon has done here is nowhere near as bad, but if someone's expertise isn't football, then it's best for them to stay out of direct list management and football department issues and strategy. You make professional appointments at those levels for a reason.

[ledge]

Peter is the man running the organisation and raising sponsors etc , he would be therefore informing the coach, list manger etc of what monies they have to play with, maybe the coaching staff have told him they are looking at certain FA s, doesn't mean he is involved in who they are getting or looking at getting.

[josie]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-26/prestia-set-to-resign

Looks like Prestia's staying put.

Any other FA tall players who can are tough & can mark well? Apart from fast, elite kickers for backline to help JJ (who was great on weekend) I think we really need a tall forward. I've heard Roberts is being groomed & woild love to see him play in seniors soon.

[josie]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-26/prestia-set-to-resign

Looks like Prestia's staying put.

Any other FA tall players who can are tough & can mark well? Apart from fast, elite kickers for backline to help JJ (who was great on weekend) I think we really need a tall forward. I've heard Roberts is being groomed & woild love to see him play in seniors soon.

My apologies - I wrongly assumed Prestia was a tall - shows how a one eyed supporter can watch a match & only have eyes for the red, white & blue

However would still appreciate learned posters thoughts on talls & quick elite kickers available as FA.