Should Gia be a Permanent Sub for the rest of 2013

[bornadog]

Worked really well last night and gave an opportunity for the kids to stay on the ground longer.

When Gia came on he worked hard and gave us that extra lift in the last.

[Ghost Dog]

Would depend on who we play wouldn't it? Injuries to other players, development needs and so forth.
But agree, he had more of an impact than any sub for a while.

[Eastdog]

Would depend on who we play wouldn't it?

Do you think maybe he would be a good sub for say when we play teams around us.

[The Doctor]

I hope when Gia retires we can retain him in some sort of off field role whether in coaching or admin. He seems very switched on.

[LongWait]

I hope when Gia retires we can retain him in some sort of off field role whether in coaching or admin. He seems very switched on.

Bit of talk around the club that Gia might take on some sort of coaching role, initially with our VFL side next year.

[wimberga]

Good post Bornadog.

His impact as the sub last night was awesome (Harry Kewell-esque in that qualifier vs Uruguay) and it's something that I think Gia could be very good at. Playing the kids for longer patches would be beneficial and Gia's class and decision making late in the game when other players tire can be very valuable.

In tight games like last night, his impact will be big, but in games that are already done and buried, I wouldn't expect too much. But IMO if we are going to play Gia, then play him as the sub.

[Greystache]

He played the role very well last night. I'm not sure we can set in stone that he should be the sub every week, but if team balance allows, it suits his skill set these days.

[GVGjr]

We can't be that rigid with selections. He can be used there more frequently but needs full games to maintain fitness levels and touch.

[Ghost Dog]

Do you think maybe he would be a good sub for say when we play teams around us.

It's a good point. I'm not sure we have had that much success with a junior type as a sub.

[soupman]

Should be no such thing as a permanent sub. He's shown he can perform the role well so he presents as a good option but it's something that needs to be mixed up week to week.

[Ghost Dog]

Copped it left and right on here over the years. But if I had to give a vote to the smartest player on our list, I would give it to Gia. Punches above his weight purely on footy smarts. For that reason it's essential we have him out there while we have him, directing traffic and mentoring guys like Hvorat and Luke - smaller types who are going to have to find goals out of nothing to stay in the team. And who's the best at that? Guido. This may cause some short term deficiencies in our forward line, but that teaching will go a long way in the future.

[Maddog37]

If it keeps him fresh mentally and physically then it is a real positive. He seems to struggle with his body alot more now and that generally translates into no chasing and lack of explosiveness. Last night he looked positively nippy when he came on.

[azabob]

I hope when Gia retires we can retain him in some sort of off field role whether in coaching or admin. He seems very switched on.


Bit of talk around the club that Gia might take on some sort of coaching role, initially with our VFL side next year.

At yesterday's game I sat behind our bench and at every opportunity Gia would be talking to whoever came off and even would walk the boundary with experienced players like Boyd and Murphy reinforcing the "message" from the coaches box.

He certainly would be handy to keep around the place.

[Go_Dogs]

Bit of talk around the club that Gia might take on some sort of coaching role, initially with our VFL side next year.

I'd really like to see him as a player/coach in our VFL side next year. Hope we can keep him on board in some capacity.


Like others I don't think we can be too rigid, but it seems like he had a great impact when he came on and is therefore comfortable in the role.

[F'scary]

Why is everyone calling Gia a Sub?

[boydogs]

We can't be that rigid with selections. He can be used there more frequently but needs full games to maintain fitness levels and touch.

Agree with GVGjr

[GVGjr]

BAD might have gotten his wish, Giansiracusa is the sub again tonight.

[bulldogtragic]

"The Super Sub"

[boydogs]

Good again, had to come on earlier but was one of our best. In his current form I would play him all game and give the vest to one of the kids

[westdog54]

Being a specialised sub may be what sees him through until the end of the season. Was super tonight.

Definitely a coach in the making.

[always right]

It's the perfect situation. Playing him as sub means we get more game time into a young bloke when the heat is on in the game. Gia is better when the initial pace of the game has subsided and at the moment he is having a big influence when he comes on. At some point he will need a full game from a fitness perspective but when possible I would play him as sub as it may enable him to squeeze out maximum games as he heads towards retirement.

[Topdog]

There are times you have to put your hand up and say you were wrong. I thought this was one of the silliest moves in the Saints game. Whats the point of an experienced player as the sub, it should be a young player I said.

Well played Gia and well done MC and coach.

[lemmon]

No problem with it, if he is at least a semi permanent sub I guess the fitness he loses not being out there isn't really required anyway so its different to most and not really an issue

[bornadog]

Seems Gia has been rejuvenated as a sub. He seems to have more spark in him as he comes on and he is determined to make an impact from the word go.

[bornadog]

Sub again v Collingwood

[bulldogtragic]

Gia is our only decent forward, he should not be warming the vest.

[always right]

Gia is our only decent forward, he should not be warming the vest.

But is he so effective because he's coming on as the sub?

[soupman]

I believe Mccartney said in the press conference last night that the sub suits Gia atm because he was struggling to run out 4 quarters, but when he plays 2 quarters he is fit enough to come on and make a real impact.

[Mofra]

There are times you have to put your hand up and say you were wrong. I thought this was one of the silliest moves in the Saints game. Whats the point of an experienced player as the sub, it should be a young player I said.

Well played Gia and well done MC and coach.
Ditto - I thought one of our best endurance athletes would be better off running a whole game. I'm clearly not going to get a gig on the MC anytime soon.

[always right]

I believe Mccartney said in the press conference last night that the sub suits Gia atm because he was struggling to run out 4 quarters, but when he plays 2 quarters he is fit enough to come on and make a real impact.

Never thought I'd say this but with the pace out of the game, Gia looks positively nippy when he comes on.:)

[LostDoggy]

Agree on all accounts, don't mess with something working so well. Gia struggling to run out a full game at his age, continue the half a game/ qtr and a half, he has been super effective. I would rather see Gia come on like this than start the game and have little or no effect in the 2nd half.

[craigsahibee]

Never thought I'd say this but with the pace out of the game, Gia looks positively nippy when he comes on.:)

Exactly right. Once the pace goes out of the game it's a perfect time for Gia. He is clever enough to know when and where to go and while he has the vest on he can "coach" the younger guys.

From what I've seen of him, I believe he will be a very good assistant coach at AFL level. He knows the game inside out and it seems he has a passion to teach and impart his knowledge on others. Might even be able to learn his trade looking after his own team at state level next year. Who knows.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Gia has been phenomenal as the sub.

Must be tempting to start him on the ground, but he does struggle to run out the 4 quarters. Either way, I've gained a lot of respect for the way he's handled the adjustments this season. His leadership in the forward half has been terrific too, it was incredibly evident in the game up at Darwin.

[LostDoggy]

It would be tempting to start him, but it's just working so well.
Can easily bring him on for Hunter/Smith or even Stringer/Jones if the need is really there when they run out of gas

[bornadog]

Exactly right. Once the pace goes out of the game it's a perfect time for Gia. He is clever enough to know when and where to go and while he has the vest on he can "coach" the younger guys.

From what I've seen of him, I believe he will be a very good assistant coach at AFL level. He knows the game inside out and it seems he has a passion to teach and impart his knowledge on others. Might even be able to learn his trade looking after his own team at state level next year. Who knows.

Macca said he loves the way Gia uses his time on the bench to coach the other players, he is really encouraging him to do it more.

This week Hunter should come in and then be subbed out for Gia.

[jeemak]

If Gia had have been given the opportunity to play as an inside and outside midfielder his time in the game would have been finished by now, and the whole should he be the permanent sub argument would be moot!

FACT - Gia is the best user of the ball in traffic and under pressure on our list

FACT - Gia is the most creative player with the ball in hand on our list

FACT - Gia has exceptional aerobic capacity

FACT - The game has moved away from needing players with huge aerobic capacity in the midfield

FACT - Gia is getting slower and slower

FACT - Gia is still good enough to take the best medium or small defender the opposition has to serve up to us

For a guy that has been fighting against the evolution of football pretty much since the time he won a senior game, he's doing exceptionally well at his age, considering the pathetic supply our forward line receives.

Play him as the sub for the remainder of the year. If he keeps making an impact with a couple of goals in the second half, then retain him and play him as a permanent sub next year.

[LostDoggy]

Agree with all the sentiments in this thread.

The question is, how long do we wait to put him on the park?

If it's a blow out either way, i guess we can wait as long as possible incase we get an injury.

But if the game is in the balance do we pull the trigger early in the third? Late in the third? Or even half time?

I guess it depends on a number of factors, i'm a fan of giving the sub reasonable game time in the third. Especially Gia.

[boydogs]

But if the game is in the balance do we pull the trigger early in the third? Late in the third? Or even half time?

I guess it depends on a number of factors, i'm a fan of giving the sub reasonable game time in the third. Especially Gia.

I wouldn't do half time unless there is someone giving us absolutely zilch that day. Too risky if you cop a couple of injuries.

[DragzLS1]

Loving his role as a sub and think he should come on 5-10min into the 3rd qtr.. If the coach knows who is going to come off for him then he can let that player know that they need to put in for the next 5min or so before they are subbed off.

Also think Gia can play full game against Melbourne and GWS in the coming weeks. Then use somebody like Smith or Dickson as a sub to impact (dickson to come back from injury offcourse).

[soupman]

I wouldn't do half time unless there is someone giving us absolutely zilch that day. Too risky if you cop a couple of injuries.

I think you looking at it as whether someone deserves to be subbed off at halftime as a bit arse about. Surely it should be about whether we need the impact Gia will have at that point and if the answer is yes, then you look to see who should come off. Last week against Collingwood was a good example of this.

As for the injury thing, when you consider Gia would normally come on halfway through the third it means that you are only adding 15 minutes to that risky period of no sub to fall back on.

[KT31]

I like Gia as a Sub, it has worked really well.
But if we do this week in and week out , is this not becoming a little bit to predictable.
First thing you would do as an opposition coach in pick another backman as your sub to negate any impact Gia would have.
It works at the moment but I would rather see someone who can play four quarters to be available in case we have an injury early in the first half.

[boydogs]

I think you looking at it as whether someone deserves to be subbed off at halftime as a bit arse about. Surely it should be about whether we need the impact Gia will have at that point and if the answer is yes, then you look to see who should come off. Last week against Collingwood was a good example of this.

As for the injury thing, when you consider Gia would normally come on halfway through the third it means that you are only adding 15 minutes to that risky period of no sub to fall back on.

Coaches would use their subs 10 minutes into the game if it wasn't for the injury risk, as soon as they can see who is a bit off that day. Having the legs to run the game out is critical, 15 minutes is enough to pile on 5 straight goals and pinch it if a couple of players go down. We even left an injured Koby Stevens on in Darwin to avoid being short on rotations.

[The Underdog]

Coaches would use their subs 10 minutes into the game if it wasn't for the injury risk, as soon as they can see who is a bit off that day. Having the legs to run the game out is critical, 15 minutes is enough to pile on 5 straight goals and pinch it if a couple of players go down. We even left an injured Koby Stevens on in Darwin to avoid being short on rotations.

We couldn't sub Koby out though, Williams had done his shoulder and been subbed out, which is probably beside your point but if Koby had of been at risk of seriously injuring himself he wouldn't have stayed on. Playing through a cork isn't that unusual. Anyway, Gia sub again. Hopefully games live when he gets on.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

No lets just blood the kids

[bulldogsman]

McCartney just said Gia's going to make a good coach next year. Looks like this will be his last year.

I like Gia as the sub BTW. Looks much better when the sting has gone out of the game.

[boydogs]

We couldn't sub Koby out though, Williams had done his shoulder and been subbed out, which is probably beside your point but if Koby had of been at risk of seriously injuring himself he wouldn't have stayed on. Playing through a cork isn't that unusual. Anyway, Gia sub again. Hopefully games live when he gets on.

I reckon if it wasn't in Darwin, Koby would have spent a lot more time on the pine. He probably still would have played on though, to allow us to keep rotating our mids.

[bulldogtragic]

Crook tonight and watching TV. Amazing footage of how Gia is leading the bench and helping all players not just young players. Must be a dead cert for the VFL coaching gig. Great stuff!!!

[chef]

This Gia as the permanent sub has got to stop.

[bulldogtragic]

This Gia as the permanent sub has got to stop.
Don't question the coach...

[GVGjr]

Don't question the coach...

This is exactly what we should do.

[bulldogtragic]

This is exactly what we should do.
Tongue is in my cheek. Some don't like the messiah being questioned. I think the coach deserves a Fair bit of heat for this decision, match ups, tactics and structures and the tendency for him to be out coached on match days.

[GVGjr]

Tongue is in my cheek. Some don't like the messiah being questioned. I think the coach deserves a Fair bit of heat for this decision, match ups, tactics and structures and the tendency for him to be out coached on match days.

I think all of our coaches should be extended a level of respect by forum members however, well constructed thoughts are great for discussions.

I agree that the Giansiracusa permanent sub idea is flawed and we should challenge it.

[LostDoggy]

I'm for it. Tonight it didn't work however. But this year Gia seemed to struggle over a full game. Bringing him in late allows the game to slow down and almost takes him back two years in his physical impact.

[LostDoggy]

Good on Gia for wanting to go down the coaching path, but he can't seriously be considered as the coach of the VFL side straight out can he? Look at the calibre of coaches he'll be up against.

[Sedat]

Bringing him in late allows the game to slow down and almost takes him back two years in his physical impact.
What use is it when, in the last 2 weeks, the game has been done and dusted before he's come on?

[KT31]

Don't question the coach...

As a paid up member's it is our right.

[G-Mo77]

What use is it when, in the last 2 weeks, the game has been done and dusted before he's come on?

That's the issue with making him the permanent sub. I do like the role he's playing and it would work more often if we were a better side but it's been pointless the last 2 weeks.

[LostDoggy]

What use is it when, in the last 2 weeks, the game has been done and dusted before he's come on?

Agreed. No use.
But they don't go into games with the plan of it being done and dusted when he comes on.
This is Gia's only option to play, and I believe Mac wants him there as a mentor role especially to the younger FWDs.

[chef]

Agreed. No use.
But they don't go into games with the plan of it being done and dusted when he comes on.
This is Gia's only option to play, and I believe Mac wants him there as a mentor role especially to the younger FWDs.

No it's not. He's easily one of our best forwards and would take a lot of focus from Jones early in games and allow our forward line to function better(giving us another avenue to goal).

It's an urban myth that he's not fit enough to run out a full game.

[Sedat]

Agreed. No use.
But they don't go into games with the plan of it being done and dusted when he comes on.
This is Gia's only option to play, and I believe Mac wants him there as a mentor role especially to the younger FWDs.
I'd much rather see him start so that he can genuinely influence the match, and then get subbed out if need be.

[LostDoggy]

No it's not. He's easily one of our best forwards and would take a lot of focus from Jones early in games and allow our forward line to function better(giving us another avenue to goal).

It's an urban myth that he's not fit enough to run out a full game.

I don't believe it is a case of aerobic deficiencies. I think he has the tank. It seems to be more that the game is ahead of him now and he can't keep up with it. It happened to Jonno and the Hawk too. Coming on late alows the sting to come out of the game. By then the opposition players start making fatigue bias decisions and Gia's football brain takes them apart.
All I can compare are his full games early this year which were not good and were met with a barrage of "needs to retire" posts on woof.

[Maddog37]

I would give him two full games over the next two weeks to keep him fully fit. Continual half games will make him less fit no matter how much work he does on the track.

[LostDoggy]

I would give him two full games over the next two weeks to keep him fully fit. Continual half games will make him less fit no matter how much work he does on the track.

Very valid point.
Also interesting to see him running laps after the match to try and combat this a little.

[LostDoggy]

Could we give Dahlhaus a run in the sub vest for a couple of weeks, would prefer that to dropping him.

[LostDoggy]

Could we give Dahlhaus a run in the sub vest for a couple of weeks, would prefer that to dropping him.

I like it.

Or: Boyd

[bornadog]

Time to take the subs vest off Bulldog Daniel Giansiracusa (http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/please-explain-time-to-take-the-subs-vest-off-bulldog-daniel-giansiracusa/story-fndv8weh-1226670756273)

Dear Macca (Brendan McCartney),

It's time to take the green vest off Daniel Giansiracusa and give him the green light to start against Melbourne on Saturday night.

We've watched with interest over the past four weeks how you have used the veteran forward as the sub, with reasonable impact.

We've heard you explain the reasons why Gia has become the man most likely for the subs role each week and we've even heard the man himself dismiss suggestions that he is not happy with it.

He's done it four matches in a row and will equal Hawthorn's Luke Breust (in season 2011) as the only player to be sub for five games in a row if he is chosen for the same role this weekend.

But surely it is time to get Giansiracusa into the play as soon as the first bounce against the Demons.

Giansiracusa is heading towards the end of what has been a strong career - we all understand that.

His body is not as durable as it used to be. And even the most loyal fans understand that the young Dogs have to get a serious go when it comes to getting game time.

Yet the fact remains that Gia - despite being sub for four consecutive matches and missing another two games this year - still leads the Dogs' goalkicking tally in 2013.

Sure, it is only 15 goals - the lowest tally for a player leading his club's goalkicking so far this season - but it would have almost certainly been more if he had more game time.

Liam Jones is next best with 14 goals, while Robert Murphy and impressive youngster Jake Stringer are locked on 11 goals each.

Gia's impact has undoubtedly been a positive one each time he has thrown off the green vest.

Of all the players who have been the sub on more than three occasions this year, according to Champion Data, he has the third-highest ratio of SuperCoach points per 100 minutes - 96.6.

It's impossible to argue against his impact coming off the bench. It's just that his impact might have been even greater if he had been given more game time.


In the first two games that Gia was the sub, the Bulldogs were able to come away with wins over St Kilda and Port Adelaide, after trailing at the moment he came on.

Injury meant he was brought into the game early - the 11-minute-mark of the second term - against the Power, and he finished with two goals and 21 touches.

He had more than enough time to play a role in the Bulldogs' comeback from a 17-point deficit when he ran on to the ground.

That wasn't the case against Collingwood and Richmond. The results were well out of reach of the Bulldogs when he was given the call-up.

When he came on at halftime of the Magpies' match, the Dogs were already 53 points down. He provided a spark, looked the man most likely to score and played a role in cutting the margin to 34 points with two goals and 15 touches.

The same thing happened against the Tigers. Gia came on at the 17-minute-mark of the third term when the Dogs were 35 points down. He had four disposals and kicked a goal in limited opportunities.

It's understandable that the Bulldogs want to put time and experience into their young group of players.

But each week it should not come at the expense of the man who was the club's leading goalkicker last year (with 28) and who is still marginally ahead this season.

Dogs coach against Demons draft aid

Experience is important, especially when the Bulldogs often appear to be crying out for a steady hand and a good converter in attack.

McCartney explained: "We're maximising what Gia's got pretty well, we think.

"It's working and we're developing some other players around him that are going to be good players for us for a long time.

"It's pretty much to help him get through the season and to get through games and we won't sub him every week, but he'll be more often than not."

Gia was diplomatic when quizzed about his sub's role recently: "I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I understand the situation that I'm in personally and where the club's at.

"We've got a young list and I'm really enjoying helping develop those young players come along and hopefully understand how difficult it is to play at AFL level."

Giansiracusa will be an assistant coach at some stage in the coming years (and will do a good job), but for the moment he is a listed Western Bulldogs player and should be getting more game time.

Let's hope it starts on Saturday against the Demons. Let him work with his young teammates on the field for the bulk of the match, rather than for 40-odd minutes.

In some games, it might be the difference between winning and losing.

Yours Sincerely,

Macca (Glenn McFarlane)

[GVGjr]

Giansiracsa should be a starter this week.

[bornadog]

Needs 10 games to get to 250, and 5 goals to get to 300. Great achievement and hope he can play the last 10 games. Agree he should start on the ground, we need to have a good first quarter.

[bornadog]

I would like to see Gia sub again today.

[DragzLS1]

I would like to see Gia sub again today.

Same here, bombers will be quick out of there defencive 50 and we need to apply the pressure early, once the game slows down bring gia on (just after half time)

LET'S hope we get a win today

[GVGjr]

I would like to see Gia sub again today.

I don't think it will happen today. One of the younger guys I suspect.

[GVGjr]

The coach got it right. Giansiracusa has been super minus the sub.

[chef]

Yep, he needs to start on the ground.

[Sedat]

.....

[Greystache]

Gia can't contest in the last quarter, needs to be subbed in or subbed out. He can't run out a full game.

[F'scary]

Gia can't contest in the last quarter, needs to be subbed in or subbed out. He can't run out a full game.

Still don't think he should retire at the end of the season. 2014 - last one.

[bulldogtragic]

Still don't think he should retire at the end of the season. 2014 - last one.
Yep. I think he will be comfortably in our best fwd 6 next year. Really good form the last while.

[Greystache]

Still don't think he should retire at the end of the season. 2014 - last one.

He's played his best footy when he can use himself up in 2.5 quarters. He still has a lot to offer in that roll but not for the full 4 quarters.

[GVGjr]

He's played his best footy when he can use himself up in 2.5 quarters. He still has a lot to offer in that roll but not for the full 4 quarters.

I think with a couple of more games he fitness will be right. He did a great job at getting us back in the contest. At the moment I'd rather see him fade a bit for a quarter than only play a half

[FrediKanoute]

Still don't think he should retire at the end of the season. 2014 - last one.

Agree. Should go one more. If he fails and it isn't working retire mid-season and promote a rookie. At the moment, he is still our best forward with daylight between him and the next bloke. Will help the development of Jones, Grant, Hunter, Dickson and Dahlhaus having him there. I am all for moving along the older guys when they have stopped contributing or have lost their spot based on the form of a kid, but at this point our forward line is dysfunctional and not having Gia wont help that.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Ideal world he plays 2.5 quarters either as the sub or being subbed, but because we regularly have so many under performing players, it makes it difficult. Wallis and Addison (for example) were atrocious today.

[bornadog]

Western Bulldogs forward Daniel Giansiracusa says he would be happy to play as a regular substitute this season after making the surprise decision to extend his career into a 14th year.

Giansiracusa, who will turn 32 before the start of the season, was a regular in the green and red vests in 2013 but still managed to lead the Bulldogs' forward line with 36 goals.

The 250-game veteran said he would welcome a regular role as the substitute again if that was where coach Brendon McCartney saw him fitting into the team.

"I'm sure I'll play it again at times … I actually enjoyed it as an older guy," he said on Wednesday.

Story continues here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-01-22/any-role-for-gia)