Struggling clubs 'need $2m each'

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/struggling-clubs-need-2m-each-20130528-2n9cj.html)

Collingwood president Eddie McGuire says Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs have ''stuffed'' their list management so badly that strong consideration should be given to giving them an enlarged salary cap.

The Demons' plight on and off the field has become a major concern, with uncertainty over coach Mark Neeld's future, suggestions of a $3 million debt and the prospect of having senior players poached at the end of the season.
Neeld's future is set to be fiercely scrutinised at a board meeting on Monday.
Demons great Garry Lyon, a member of the subcommittee that chose Neeld in late 2011 after Alastair Clarkson rejected a massive offer, says he could understand if the board opted for change once the club confirmed it had the finances to pay Neeld out. He is contracted to the end of 2014.

Neeld's manager, Liam Pickering, refused to comment on Tuesday.
AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou has left the door ajar for the AFL Commission to use its discretion to award the Demons a priority pick should they continue to sink, but McGuire says that is not the way to go.
''One of the things that I am worried about, everyone goes: 'The priority pick, give them a priority pick' [but] we have seen the priority pick doesn't do anything,'' McGuire said.
''It wouldn't matter if you stuck the best kid in Australia into Melbourne at the moment, all you would probably do is get him belted up. He would be rushed in too early, as we have seen possibly with Jack Watts in the first place.''

The Bulldogs had an exhilarating win over St Kilda at the weekend but football director Chris Grant has admitted it could be up to five seasons before his club is again among the elite.
In a candid assessment of the Bulldogs and Demons, which share three wins this season and finished near the foot of the ladder last season, McGuire said: ''I think at the moment you have two sides that have been cut adrift too far and because they have stuffed it up along the way, let's just not completely absolve them of their sins. But because of this perfect storm, these two clubs are now in big trouble unless they get a bit of help along the way.''
McGuire said the Bulldogs and Melbourne would be better off being handed an extra $2 million apiece to spend on players.

''The thing that you have to do to have equality in football is have 100 per cent of the salary cap paid, because at the moment you still have clubs that don't pay 100 per cent of the salary cap,'' he said on Triple M.
''You have other clubs like Sydney who are paying about 110, 115 per cent with all their advantages, even back-ending, front-ending contracts, all that type of stuff.
''Also with these new sides, the GWS and Gold Coast, because they have front-ended a lot of their contracts, they are really going to come in at an advantage and that's where the Bulldogs and Melbourne are absolutely getting screwed to the wall at the moment.
''I was thinking possibly what we need to do is look at making sure the AFL allow Melbourne and the Bulldogs to pay not only 100 per cent of the salary cap but maybe give them 110 per cent to keep the players they have got by giving them extra money and to get into the free-agency market.

''If they get an extra $2 million, for example, they could go and get four blokes at $500,000. You would go from being a cellar-dweller to being a pretty good side pretty quickly.''
However, that does not guarantee improvement. The Demons' off-season recruits David Rodan, Shannon Byrnes, Cameron Pedersen and Tom Gillies have had little impact, while former Magpie Chris Dawes, given a four-year deal worth more than $2 million, has yet to build match fitness.
The Bulldogs were among the bottom three clubs in total player payment spending last season. And it is understood Melbourne paid nearly 100 per cent of the TPP as it front-loaded contracts.

A 90-point loss to Fremantle on Sunday has intensified scrutiny of the Demons. Club great Gerard Healy says Neeld must go if there isn't improvement, with board support ''getting thinner and thinner''.

[Ghost Dog]

''One of the things that I am worried about, everyone goes: 'The priority pick, give them a priority pick' [but] we have seen the priority pick doesn't do anything,'' McGuire said.
''It wouldn't matter if you stuck the best kid in Australia into Melbourne at the moment, all you would probably do is get him belted up. He would be rushed in too early, as we have seen possibly with Jack Watts in the first place.''


With respect, and appreciate many of you have more of a handle on footy than myself, but IMO, this is where I have to beg to differ with the pack, and agree with Eddie. Money is in the bank. Picks are a very unreliable means of making things level.

[bulldogtragic]

Can we have 2 million and a PP? :)

[jeemak]

I'm very, very cynical towards any bellowing that comes from the rich.

As far as I can tell Eddie's commentary is aimed more at highlighting his perception of unfair advantage to expansion and niche market clubs with which Collingwood either are or are soon to be competing, rather than overall competition equalisation.

I do really like Eddie when he's not wearing his Collingwood hat. When he is, no clubs' dignity or pride stands in the way of him using them to his advantage.

[Remi Moses]

''One of the things that I am worried about, everyone goes: 'The priority pick, give them a priority pick' [but] we have seen the priority pick doesn't do anything,'' McGuire said.
''It wouldn't matter if you stuck the best kid in Australia into Melbourne at the moment, all you would probably do is get him belted up. He would be rushed in too early, as we have seen possibly with Jack Watts in the first place.''


With respect, and appreciate many of you have more of a handle on footy than myself, but IMO, this is where I have to beg to differ with the pack, and agree with Eddie. Money is in the bank. Picks are a very unreliable means of making things level.

That's all good, but picking players once again highlights the Disparity.
You have the big boys with their bulging wallets for recruiting and the dirt poor who aren't staffed well enough . I'll bet my bottom dollar the recruiting spend is massive with the big boys and we're in the minnow section

[Remi Moses]

I'm very, very cynical towards any bellowing that comes from the rich.

As far as I can tell Eddie's commentary is aimed more at highlighting his perception of unfair advantage to expansion and niche market clubs with which Collingwood either are or are soon to be competing, rather than overall competition equalisation.

I do really like Eddie when he's not wearing his Collingwood hat. When he is, no clubs' dignity or pride stands in the way of him using them to his advantage.

The equalisation debate has been hijacked by the rich clubs banging on about the concessions the expansion clubs get. Deflect deflect deflect

[Happy Days]

"Stuffed it up along the way", isn't that sticking in the craw of anyone else?

We shot our wad trying to win a premiership in 2010, when Melbourne were still terrible.

[jeemak]

"Stuffed it up along the way", isn't that sticking in the craw of anyone else?

We shot our wad trying to win a premiership in 2010, when Melbourne were still terrible.

It would have really pissed me off it Eddie wasn't wearing his Collingwood hat when making that statement.

We've had a pretty poor run at securing talent via the draft in our most recent decade or so, and deserve to be questioned on that. Though recently, we've performed quite well.

Eddie, when he has his angry face on kind of forgets that Collingwood has benefitted from equalisation via the draft quite recently, and won a flag out of it.

[LostDoggy]

Looks like Eddies been reading the Woof Forum. I posted this idea in the "Ask the President" thread months ago.

[Jdog]

I agree with these ideas, but I don't understand why Eddie has to be the AFL God when Dimitriou is paid $$$$$$$ to make the AFL a fully functioning and successful game. I am sick and tired of seeing the struggles of the same clubs year after year. If these clubs continue to struggle, they will always struggle with memberships and $$$$$. A plan needs to be put into place immediately. I am already hearing the words of a Melbourne/Western Bulldogs merger ... im not too concerned about that, but young supporters don't want to support clubs that continue to fail or are constantly in the media for negative reasons... stop killing this game Dimitriou !!!!! Step up and plan ahead ... its not difficult to help the clubs that need it the most ... Centrelink does that with people in our community ... the AFL needs to look at less financial clubs and offer similar support :(

[bornadog]

I agree with these ideas, but I don't understand why Eddie has to be the AFL God when Dimitriou is paid $$$$$$$ to make the AFL a fully functioning and successful game. I am sick and tired of seeing the struggles of the same clubs year after year. If these clubs continue to struggle, they will always struggle with memberships and $$$$$. A plan needs to be put in place immediately. I am already hearing the words of a Melbourne/Western Bulldogs merger ... im not too concerned about that, but young supporters don't want to support clubs that continue to fail or are constantly in the media for negative reasons... stop killing this game Dimitriou !!!!! Step up and plan ahead ... its not difficult to help the clubs that need it the most ... Centrelink does that with people in our community ... the AFL needs to look at less financial clubs and offer similar support :(

I believe the AFL is planning ahead, that's why the AFL is looking at equalisation and how best to distribute funds. Peter Gordon will join some other CEO's as well as representatives from the AFL on a trip to the USA to see how the big leagues there distribute funds.

Once they come back, the AFL will then put forward a strategy for the future on equalisation.

My take on it is, as long as teams get preferential treatment for blockbusters, Friday night matches, FTA, then they will continue to grow and grow and the minnos will continue to stagnate. They can keep throwing money at us, but the only way to be viable is to increase membership. We are struggling to get 30,000 members whereas the Collingwoods are up to over 70,000. Why are the Collingwoods, Essendons, Hawthorns increasing membership, well you put on TV every year a game like the ANZAC day blockbuster, and guess what, the kids fall in love with those teams. Its like a rolling snowball, they just get bigger and bigger as they get more and more exposure. This also leads to not only more membership but more and more cash. Collingwood and Essendon make $1.5 million from one game, we don't make that with 10 games at Eithad. So, its not the cash or money at the end of the day, its membership and a proper stadium deal, that is what we need, and the funds will then flow.

What can we do?

The only way up is to keep growing our base in the Western Region of Melbourne. One key factor is to get ourselves a premiership and then capitalise on that. We are not going to get preferential treatment on TV, or in the fixture.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I believe the AFL is planning ahead, that's why the AFL is looking at equalisation and how best to distribute funds. Peter Gordon will join some other CEO's as well as representatives from the AFL on a trip to the USA to see how the big leagues there distribute funds.

Once they come back, the AFL will then put forward a strategy for the future on equalisation.

My take on it is, as long as teams get preferential treatment for blockbusters, Friday night matches, FTA, then they will continue to grow and grow and the minnos will continue to stagnate. They can keep throwing money at us, but the only way to be viable is to increase membership. We are struggling to get 30,000 members whereas the Collingwoods are up to over 70,000. Why are the Collingwoods, Essendons, Hawthorns increasing membership, well you put on TV every year a game like the ANZAC day blockbuster, and guess what, the kids fall in love with those teams. Its like a rolling snowball, they just get bigger and bigger as they get more and more exposure. This also leads to not only more membership but more and more cash. Collingwood and Essendon make $1.5 million from one game, we don't make that with 10 games at Eithad. So, its not the cash or money at the end of the day, its membership and a proper stadium deal, that is what we need, and the funds will then flow.

What can we do?

The only way up is to keep growing our base in the Western Region of Melbourne. One key factor is to get ourselves a premiership and then capitalise on that. We are not going to get preferential treatment on TV, or in the fixture.

Collingwood and Essendon have always had a strong supporter base with Geelong and Hawthorn in a similar situation now, together with Carlton and Richmond. Hawthorn in recent years has captured the Eastern Suburbs market plus the bonus of its Tasmanian membership base. Our recent playing in 3 pre-lim finals didn't have a huge flow on effect of our 30,000 members, which suggests that there is also a lot of members from the stronger clubs living in the Western region.Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon have all established licenced Clubs in the West, further eroding our capacity to compete financially. The fact that Peter Gordon who is a strong advocate for equilisation is travelling to the States with McGuire and Demetriou is a positive step and perhaps for the first time provides some indication that the AFL is serious about assisting the poor membership based clubs such as the Western Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne and St. Kilda. Unless something is done quickly we will continue to struggle. Clubs like the Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans and now Gold Coast and GWS have all received huge financial incentives at our expense.

[Eastdog]

Collingwood and Essendon have always had a strong supporter base with Geelong and Hawthorn in a similar situation now, together with Carlton and Richmond. Hawthorn in recent years has captured the Eastern Suburbs market plus the bonus of its Tasmanian membership base. Our recent playing in 3 pre-lim finals didn't have a huge flow on effect of our 30,000 members, which suggests that there is also a lot of members from the stronger clubs living in the Western region.Collingwood, Hawthorn and Essendon have all established licenced Clubs in the West, further eroding our capacity to compete financially. The fact that Peter Gordon who is a strong advocate for equilisation is travelling to the States with McGuire and Demetriou is a positive step and perhaps for the first time provides some indication that the AFL is serious about assisting the poor membership based clubs such as the Western Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne and St. Kilda. Unless something is done quickly we will continue to struggle. Clubs like the Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans and now Gold Coast and GWS have all received huge financial incentives at our expense.

I've suggested previously in other threads that we should go into the northern and eastern regions to grow our club just like what other clubs do in the Western region. What do you reckon about this. We should try and broaden our appeal as much as possible and not just to the heartland.

[Murphy'sLore]

The trouble is, initiatives like that cost money too. How much can we afford to spend chasing new members, and how would we do it anyway?

[Eastdog]

The trouble is, initiatives like that cost money too. How much can we afford to spend chasing new members, and how would we do it anyway?

I see what your saying. Maybe like they do in the East each year have like a training day in the North as I'm sure there would be quite few Dogs fans out that way as well.

[LostDoggy]

"Stuffed it up along the way", isn't that sticking in the craw of anyone else?

We shot our wad trying to win a premiership in 2010, when Melbourne were still terrible.

Yeah, it's not nice hearing it, but it's absolutely correct.


The only way up is to keep growing our base in the Western Region of Melbourne. One key factor is to get ourselves a premiership and then capitalise on that. We are not going to get preferential treatment on TV, or in the fixture.

I agree with your post, but I don't believe winning a premiership will help us long term. Yeah, we might hit 40k or 50k members the year after, but it's the blockbuster games and inequitable draw that needs to happen. A flag would only be the icing.

[Greystache]

This issue may have been put on the back burner for now after Eddie's unfortunate comments on his radio show this morning.

[Sedat]

I agree with Mark Stevens, who tweeted that is was borderline insulting for the Dogs to be labelled a basket case seeing as we made 3 consecutive PF's in recent history.

Anyway we won't be hearing much from Ed on this issue in the coming weeks. Needs to remove both feet from his mouth first.

[chef]

This issue may have been put on the back burner for now after Eddie's unfortunate comments on his radio show this morning.

What a stupid thing to say.

[Eastdog]

How is the Peninsula Club down in Dromana going for us financially?

[Maddog37]

The empre is starting to crumble at Collingwood land. Would not be surprised to see a few rats leaving the sinking ship before too long.

[Remi Moses]

I agree with Mark Stevens, who tweeted that is was borderline insulting for the Dogs to be labelled a basket case seeing as we made 3 consecutive PF's in recent history.

Anyway we won't be hearing much from Ed on this issue in the coming weeks. Needs to remove both feet from his mouth first.

Really poor of McGuire to land us in there as well.
Time for a bex and a lie down Ed.

[FrediKanoute]

The issue I have with Eddie's comments are that he makes no mention that we also lost 2 key players to the expansion clubs. Yes we stuffed up drafts, clubs do that because drafting is an inexact science, but not having Ward in the midfield and Harbrow in defence has probably made the drafting a bigger problem.

The fact is, with the path we are on, we are simply not going to take $2m and spend it on 4 players. The problem with that scenario is that the players (agents) will simply negotiate up inflating the price of good ordinary players. Also, Ed's forgetting that its not $2m, but $6m, assuming you put the 4 guys on 3 year deals. If we got $2m we would be better placed to invest in infrastructure/development and draft and develop better players.

[Ghost Dog]

I think people are a bit hard on Ed. We would not have Mission as a sponsor without him.
2 million dollars as a gift would go a long way to securing a fantastic footy manager.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think people are a bit hard on Ed. We would not have Mission as a sponsor without him.
2 million dollars as a gift would go a long way to securing a fantastic footy manager.

Sorry GD, I dont believe that for a second

Eddie might have a good public attitude to us, but I dont think hes ever done much for us

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry GD, I dont believe that for a second

Eddie might have a good public attitude to us, but I dont think hes ever done much for us
Disagree. I think Eddie was heavily responsible for Mission and worked closely and well with Smorgo.

[GVGjr]

I think people are a bit hard on Ed. We would not have Mission as a sponsor without him.
2 million dollars as a gift would go a long way to securing a fantastic footy manager.


Disagree. I think Eddie was heavily responsible for Mission and worked closely and well with Smorgo.

I thought he assisted us with Lease Plan but I'm not aware of any link with Mission Foods.

[bulldogtragic]

I thought he assisted us with Lease Plan but I'm not aware of any link with Mission Foods.
As usual, you're right G. Leaseplan it was.

[GVGjr]

As usual, you're right G. Leaseplan it was.

From memory they wanted to be the main sponsor at Collingwood but the Pies had already committed to another. Leaseplan weren't interested in being a 2nd tier sponsor so Eddie directed them towards us.

[Ghost Dog]

I thought he assisted us with Lease Plan but I'm not aware of any link with Mission Foods.



http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dogs-go-down-fighting-20120504-1y4vu.html

DINNER DATE
There was something of a love-in among the opposing presidents at David Smorgon's pre-match dinner. The Bulldogs presented their annual community award named in honour of Eddie McGuire, for helping the club find a major sponsor. McGuire then presented Smorgon with a present honouring his 15 years in the top job.

[Happy Days]

I agree with Mark Stevens, who tweeted that is was borderline insulting for the Dogs to be labelled a basket case seeing as we made 3 consecutive PF's in recent history.

Anyway we won't be hearing much from Ed on this issue in the coming weeks. Needs to remove both feet from his mouth first.


"Stuffed it up along the way", isn't that sticking in the craw of anyone else?

We shot our wad trying to win a premiership in 2010, when Melbourne were still terrible.

Could just agree with the forum's own! ;)

[Remi Moses]

Bit disappointing, and really patronising and condescending comments from Ed.
It's silly however that we're paying 95% yet Sydney are 900 over !
Makes a mockery of the salary cap to be honest.
Melbourne are Paying 100%:eek:
To be lumped in with them is a bit rich

[anfo27]

Bit disappointing, and really patronising and condescending comments from Ed.
It's silly however that we're paying 95% yet Sydney are 900 over !
Makes a mockery of the salary cap to be honest.
Melbourne are Paying 100%:eek:
To be lumped in with them is a bit rich


Agreed. Especially as Melbourne picked up big names like Mitch Clark & Chris Dawes which gave their supporters a reason for optimism.