Another silly question from Jdog :)

[Jdog]

When we lost Ward, is it fair to say that the club made an error by not securing his future at the Western Bulldogs? I do understand that the money he was paid to leave us was too good to refuse, but securing players and making them feel like they don't need to go elsewhere is also a vital part of their career in football. Also, this is the real part of my question .. we are in the process of training some young guns who are all showing remarkable signs of future football stars ... what will happen if other clubs approach them with similar dollars that Ward was offered?, how can we be sure that our hard work in training them and losing games along the way (because we risked playing them) will actually benefit OUR club and not the football player and a new club ???
Developing players into superstars at our club scares me .. we are great at appointing them, we are great at training them, but we can risk losing them to bigger and better clubs.

[SlimPickens]

This has been covered a truckload in other threads JDog. Not a stupid question but one that has been addressed on here ad nauseam

[EasternWest]

When we lost Ward, is it fair to say that the club made an error by not securing his future at the Western Bulldogs? I do understand that the money he was paid to leave us was too good to refuse, but securing players and making them feel like they don't need to go elsewhere is also a vital part of their career in football. Also, this is the real part of my question .. we are in the process of training some young guns who are all showing remarkable signs of future football stars ... what will happen if other clubs approach them with similar dollars that Ward was offered?, how can we be sure that our hard work in training them and losing games along the way (because we risked playing them) will actually benefit OUR club and not the football player and a new club ???
Developing players into superstars at our club scares me .. we are great at appointing them, we are great at training them, but we can risk losing them to bigger and better clubs.

Can of worms here Jdog, it's been passionately discussed here in the past.

Basically, we got screwed, but before that we screwed ourselves by not doing exactly what you said we should do.

The worst part about losing Ward for mine was that not only could he get the ball and use it, but he showed he could play on the big stage (finals).

I don't blame Ward for going (I would've too, it was just too much money), but I'm still gutted he's gone.

[Eastdog]

Can of worms here Jdog, it's been passionately discussed here in the past.

Basically, we got screwed, but before that we screwed ourselves by not doing exactly what you said we should do.

The worst part about losing Ward for mine was that not only could he get the ball and use it, but he showed he could play on the big stage (finals).

I don't blame Ward for going (I would've too, it was just too much money), but I'm still gutted he's gone.

Ward and Harbrow would have been great for our team if we hung on to them but the reality was they were offered more money to go to GC and GWS.

[bornadog]

Rodney Eade warned Fantasia that he needs to lock in both Ward and Harbrow well before their contracts were up. We all new that the new clubs were coming (GC and GWS).

Fantasia said it was in the bag and there would be no issues in resigning both players. The rest is history.

Hopefully this would not happen again as we have a list manager in Jason Macca. In the past we did not have anyone in this role and Fantasia tried to do the lot, even negotiate contracts.

PS: Fantasia is banned from contract negotiation at the Hawks, and don't ask me how I know;)

[Jdog]

I know the Ward saga is old news, I did bring it up more as an example to find out how we would secure the up and coming stars at the kennel ... Jason is a better candidate for that role anyway .. personally, I think Fantasia screwed us.

[LostDoggy]

There's nothing you can do. They have the right to leave via free agency and they have the right to ask for a trade (even if they don't get it).

Like you said, you need to ensure they don't want to, and money isn't the only reason people come to work every day. If money was the only concern for me I wouldn't be working where I work.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

When we lost Ward, is it fair to say that the club made an error by not securing his future at the Western Bulldogs? I do understand that the money he was paid to leave us was too good to refuse, but securing players and making them feel like they don't need to go elsewhere is also a vital part of their career in football. Also, this is the real part of my question .. we are in the process of training some young guns who are all showing remarkable signs of future football stars ... what will happen if other clubs approach them with similar dollars that Ward was offered?, how can we be sure that our hard work in training them and losing games along the way (because we risked playing them) will actually benefit OUR club and not the football player and a new club ???
Developing players into superstars at our club scares me .. we are great at appointing them, we are great at training them, but we can risk losing them to bigger and better clubs.

You can blame the AFL for Ward's departure. The three lowly clubs targeted by GWS were Western Bulldogs- Ward, Melbourne- Scully and Adelaide- Davis. There was no recognition at the time to protect clubs like the WB. Safeguards should have been put in place by the AFL where players needed to have served 8 years or 100 games before being approached by GWS.

[F'scary]

When we lost Ward, is it fair to say that the club made an error by not securing his future at the Western Bulldogs? I do understand that the money he was paid to leave us was too good to refuse, but securing players and making them feel like they don't need to go elsewhere is also a vital part of their career in football. Also, this is the real part of my question .. we are in the process of training some young guns who are all showing remarkable signs of future football stars ... what will happen if other clubs approach them with similar dollars that Ward was offered?, how can we be sure that our hard work in training them and losing games along the way (because we risked playing them) will actually benefit OUR club and not the football player and a new club ???
Developing players into superstars at our club scares me .. we are great at appointing them, we are great at training them, but we can risk losing them to bigger and better clubs.

Two things that could help secure our young stars in the longer term:

1. Start playing them very soon after recruitment. This is the best way to get them to bond strongly with the club.

2. Plan ahead and keep some room in the salary cap. Other commentors have made notes about the departures of Ward & Harbrow that indicate some failure on this point.

That said, it can be very difficult to stop Demetriou & his agenda. He is ruining the AFL. The chickens will come home to roost when there is a serious economic downturn.

[soupman]

Two things that could help secure our young stars in the longer term:

1. Start playing them very soon after recruitment. This is the best way to get them to bond strongly with the club.

2. Plan ahead and keep some room in the salary cap. Other commentors have made notes about the departures of Ward & Harbrow that indicate some failure on this point.

That said, it can be very difficult to stop Demetriou & his agenda. He is ruining the AFL. The chickens will come home to roost when there is a serious economic downturn.

We did both those things with Ward and Harbrow.

Currently there is less danger of losing our stars before they are 25 or so because the FA rules require 8+ (?) years, while GWS could simply target anyone out of contract IIRC. The key is signing these players up before they have a chance to come out of contract. ie. If their contract expires end of 2015 we extend their deal in 2014. Some agents will be unwilling to do this due to the leverage they get when they are out of contract but the majority of players who like their club will be happy to sign up early.

[LostDoggy]

We did both those things with Ward and Harbrow.

Currently there is less danger of losing our stars before they are 25 or so because the FA rules require 8+ (?) years, while GWS could simply target anyone out of contract IIRC. The key is signing these players up before they have a chance to come out of contract. ie. If their contract expires end of 2015 we extend their deal in 2014. Some agents will be unwilling to do this due to the leverage they get when they are out of contract but the majority of players who like their club will be happy to sign up early.

I think we'll see most negotiations centre around when the player comes into the FA period, such as Cotchin, who signed yesterday but is timed so he comes out of contract just as he becomes a free agent.

This isn't necessarily a threat if planned for. I mean, getting 8-10 years out of a player is a good investment, so the key is really planning your list so that you've got these guys covered as far as possible by the time they're free to jump ship. If they do, the damage is limited, and if they don't, you have depth.

Like F'scary said, building the loyalty helps to a degree, but take Ablett as an example — a legacy doesn't necessarily translate into loyalty.

[westdog54]

Rodney Eade warned Fantasia that he needs to lock in both Ward and Harbrow well before their contracts were up. We all new that the new clubs were coming (GC and GWS).

Fantasia said it was in the bag and there would be no issues in resigning both players. The rest is history.

Hopefully this would not happen again as we have a list manager in Jason Macca. In the past we did not have anyone in this role and Fantasia tried to do the lot, even negotiate contracts.

PS: Fantasia is banned from contract negotiation at the Hawks, and don't ask me how I know;)

In lieu of that, I'll instead ask this: What the hell is he doing out there.

[bornadog]

In lieu of that, I'll instead ask this: What the hell is he doing out there.

His role is to manage the football department. I guess others would do the contract negotiations.

[Bulldog4life]

Rodney Eade warned Fantasia that he needs to lock in both Ward and Harbrow well before their contracts were up. We all new that the new clubs were coming (GC and GWS).

Fantasia said it was in the bag and there would be no issues in resigning both players. The rest is history.

Hopefully this would not happen again as we have a list manager in Jason Macca. In the past we did not have anyone in this role and Fantasia tried to do the lot, even negotiate contracts.

PS: Fantasia is banned from contract negotiation at the Hawks, and don't ask me how I know;)

According to this he's not BAD. Might have to change your source.;)

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-05-18/no-movement-on-buddy-contract

HAWTHORN'S new football manager James Fantasia is yet to sit down with star forward Lance Franklin to discuss his contract situation, according to coach Alastair Clarkson.

Fantasia crossed from the Western Bulldogs in early April to take up the post of Hawks' general manager of football, replacing Mark Evans, the AFL's new general manager of football operations.

Franklin has put contract talks on hold until the end of the season, when he will become a restricted free agent, and the arrival of Fantasia has not changed that situation.

"I don’t think so," Clarkson said on Friday when asked if Fantasia had held talks with Franklin about his contract situation.

[chef]

According to this he's not BAD. Might have to change your source.;)

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-05-18/no-movement-on-buddy-contract

HAWTHORN'S new football manager James Fantasia is yet to sit down with star forward Lance Franklin to discuss his contract situation, according to coach Alastair Clarkson.

Fantasia crossed from the Western Bulldogs in early April to take up the post of Hawks' general manager of football, replacing Mark Evans, the AFL's new general manager of football operations.

Franklin has put contract talks on hold until the end of the season, when he will become a restricted free agent, and the arrival of Fantasia has not changed that situation.

"I don’t think so," Clarkson said on Friday when asked if Fantasia had held talks with Franklin about his contract situation.

Almost feel sorry for Hawthorn, almost.

[bornadog]

According to this he's not BAD. Might have to change your source.;)

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-05-18/no-movement-on-buddy-contract

HAWTHORN'S new football manager James Fantasia is yet to sit down with star forward Lance Franklin to discuss his contract situation, according to coach Alastair Clarkson.

Fantasia crossed from the Western Bulldogs in early April to take up the post of Hawks' general manager of football, replacing Mark Evans, the AFL's new general manager of football operations.

Franklin has put contract talks on hold until the end of the season, when he will become a restricted free agent, and the arrival of Fantasia has not changed that situation.

"I don’t think so," Clarkson said on Friday when asked if Fantasia had held talks with Franklin about his contract situation.

Well another one he will stuff them :D Looks like Franklins leaving at the end of the year :D

[bulldogtragic]

Almost feel sorry for Hawthorn, almost.
Never!

[chef]

Never!

He seemed like a weird guy to poach.

[bulldogtragic]

He seemed like a weird guy to poach.
Agree. Much like the Government poaching Slipper as speaker. Too clever for their own good.


Although to be fair, I don't know James' taxi habits.

[LostDoggy]

According to this he's not BAD. Might have to change your source.;)

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2013-05-18/no-movement-on-buddy-contract

HAWTHORN'S new football manager James Fantasia is yet to sit down with star forward Lance Franklin to discuss his contract situation, according to coach Alastair Clarkson.

Fantasia crossed from the Western Bulldogs in early April to take up the post of Hawks' general manager of football, replacing Mark Evans, the AFL's new general manager of football operations.

Franklin has put contract talks on hold until the end of the season, when he will become a restricted free agent, and the arrival of Fantasia has not changed that situation.

"I don’t think so," Clarkson said on Friday when asked if Fantasia had held talks with Franklin about his contract situation.

We've sent him to infiltrate and ensure Buddy ends up at the Dogs. It's all been set up.