Williams out for the season

[Hotdog60]

With Tommy gone for the season does this mean we can elevate a rookie. If so who would we go for?

There not much to choose from, Goodes is already on.

Maybe Austin would be the obvious

[GVGjr]

With Tommy gone for the season does this mean we can elevate a rookie. If so who would we go for?

There not much to choose from, Goodes is already on.

Maybe Austin would be the obvious

We went into the season one player short on the senior list with the view that we would promote one of the rookies.

Not sure if we will promote anyone else at this stage. Maybe Redpath is someone they might consider if plays a couple of decent games at Williamstown.

[Greystache]

With Tommy gone for the season does this mean we can elevate a rookie. If so who would we go for?

There not much to choose from, Goodes is already on.

Maybe Austin would be the obvious

After next round we can elevate another rookie without a player needing to be added to the long term injury list, so we can actually elevate 2.

If he can get himself right I can see Jong getting games later in the season.

[bulldogtragic]

We'd have to increase a salary wouldn't we. If so, I'm not sure none is worth the extra expense.

[Maddog37]

I would like to see Jong and Greenwood get some exposure to assist in making a judgement on whether to persist with them.

[Hotdog60]

After next round we can elevate another rookie without a player needing to be added to the long term injury list, so we can actually elevate 2.

If he can get himself right I can see Jong getting games later in the season.

Austin is already a known quantity so do bring up Redpath or Greenwood. You could dangle the carrot and tell these guys there's a chance of a senior spot if your form warrants it and see if they grasp the challenge.

I like Jong and would like to give every opportunity to get on the main list.

[G-Mo77]

Jong and Greenwood would top the list. If/when healthy I'm sure they'll get a couple of games before the season ends.

[Greystache]

Austin is already a known quantity so do bring up Redpath or Greenwood. You could dangle the carrot and tell these guys there's a chance of a senior spot if your form warrants it and see if they grasp the challenge.

I like Jong and would like to give every opportunity to get on the main list.

I think we could dangle the carrot prior to making the commitment of elevating them. Simply tell them we have the ability to elevate them to the senior list if they can show form that demands it. I don't like elevating players just to give them incentive.

[bornadog]

We went into the season one player short on the senior list with the view that we would promote one of the rookies.

Not sure if we will promote anyone else at this stage. Maybe Redpath is someone they might consider if plays a couple of decent games at Williamstown.

How is Redpath going in the backline at Willi from your point of view? He would be an ideal replacement as we have enough midfielders at this stage as long as he can handle AFL level.

Jong later on in the year may also be an option.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm content to hold off promoting anyone for the time being.

The players on the RL will be aware the opportunities are there if they earn them - hopefully Greenwood and Redpath can stay injury free and put their best feet forward.

Jong is one I'm quite excited about based on what he did last year off a limited preparation and someone who has a large scope for improvement if he can get better with his outside game and skill level. His injury came at a very unfortunate time and possibly leaves him racing against the clock to regain form and fitness before the season closes.

[KT31]

Have to feel for poor Tom.
Same draft as Grff yet has played nearly 100 games less.
Hard to see us persisting with him, Club is on a hiding to nothing.
Keep him on the list and members will ask why have we persisted with another injury prone player.
Delist him and we have taken a likable and key team member off the list.
Personally I'm of the opinion, nice and as skilled as he is, we have had Tom on the list since 2004 and he has only played 78 senior games, it is time to try other options.
Maybe (a softer option )we could look at paying him out and placing him on the rookie list next year.

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say I reckon we should cut out losses .
He just doesn't have the body for the rigours of the game.

[chef]

Jumping to conclusion that he has injured his other shoulder, I would get this one done and give him another year. If they stop Walkers shoulders from popping out they should be able to fix Tommy's too.

[GVGjr]

We'd have to increase a salary wouldn't we. If so, I'm not sure none is worth the extra expense.

We have the room in it to absorb rookie list elevations.

[Ghost Dog]

Have to wait until the end of the year. Need to figure in other injuries, type, chances of recovery.

[Scorlibo]

I take a different view with Tommy. Even if he remains injury plagued until he is 30, he might still have another good 70 games left in him. If that's true, then that's more than we can reasonably expect from a low draft pick. Referring to my own thread in the drafts forum, on average draftees beyond pick 50 only play 20 games. 70 > 20. Now of course the arguments can be made for team stability, but for mine, if he's good enough to get a game, and he has 70 games still to give, then he stays - simple math.

[lemmon]

I don't see the point in delisting him either, Tom Williams for 10 games a year is still of more value than what the 44th bloke on the list provides. If we get a decent offer for him id consider it, St Kilda may have some interest but I don't see the point dropping him off the list

[KT31]

I don't see the point in delisting him either, Tom Williams for 10 games a year is still of more value than what the 44th bloke on the list provides. If we get a decent offer for him id consider it, St Kilda may have some interest but I don't see the point dropping him off the list

Disagree, we can't we support so many injury prone players.
Its harsh but would off load both Higgo and Tommy, even if its a minor percentage it still gives us a chance to recruit a long term player.
Do your stats take in the fact that Boyd, Harbrow and Picken were all rookies.

[bulldogtragic]

Disagree, we can't we support so many injury prone players.
Its harsh but would off load both Higgo and Tommy, even if its a minor percentage it still gives us a chance to recruit a long term player.
Do your stats take in the fact that Boyd, Harbrow and Picken were all rookies.
Morris, Dahl and JJ

[Scorlibo]

Disagree, we can't we support so many injury prone players.
Its harsh but would off load both Higgo and Tommy, even if its a minor percentage it still gives us a chance to recruit a long term player.
Do your stats take in the fact that Boyd, Harbrow and Picken were all rookies.

I presume this is directed at me, KT31 - yes, they do. See here (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=11853).

We give ourselves the chance to recruit a long-term player, but we also risk the chance of recruiting a dud, and another dud after that dud's finished, etc.

[Scorlibo]

Morris, Dahl and JJ

We've done particularly well with rookies.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm also of the opinion we should cut our losses and delist Williams.

No point carrying a player who spends more time in the rehab group than anywhere else.

[azabob]

I'm also of the opinion we should cut our losses and delist Williams.

No point carrying a player who spends more time in the rehab group than anywhere else.

Cordy and Higgins as well?

[GVGjr]

I'm also of the opinion we should cut our losses and delist Williams.

No point carrying a player who spends more time in the rehab group than anywhere else.

I can't agree on that. He is our most experienced big man and while he has had a shocking run with injuries I'd still stick with him.

[Ghost Dog]

Disregarding the emotion of it, How are we for tall defenders? I'm not sure we can actually afford to delist him.
Roughy has been outstanding for us. Let's not take that for granted. We would be cooked if not for his success down there. Imagine a scenario without him?
Nobody to play on the Forward gorillas. Talia is barely ready.

[bulldogtragic]

Disregarding the emotion of it, How are we for tall defenders? I'm not sure we can actually afford to delist him.
Roughy has been outstanding for us. Let's not take that for granted. We would be cooked if not for his success down there. Imagine a scenario without him?
Nobody to play on the Forward gorillas. Talia is barely ready.
Point very well made, convinced me.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Cordy and Higgins as well?

Higgins is slightly more durable than Williams and is young enough to still carve out some sort of career, although I am not convinced.

I don't rate Cordy regardless of injuries, shouldn't even be on an AFL list beyond 2013 but it is what it is.


Disregarding the emotion of it, How are we for tall defenders? I'm not sure we can actually afford to delist him.
Roughy has been outstanding for us. Let's not take that for granted. We would be cooked if not for his success down there. Imagine a scenario without him?
Nobody to play on the Forward gorillas. Talia is barely ready.

I do agree and I think Williams is a good player who can play at both ends, but I'm not sure we've ever seen anyone break down as often as him.

He simply can't string games together at any level.

[Scorlibo]

Higgins is slightly more durable than Williams and is young enough to still carve out some sort of career, although I am not convinced.

Higgins was taken in 2005, Williams in 2004.

It's less about his position and more about his age for mine. Whilst we lack quality big men, we have shown that we can play with Roughead down back, Young and Morris for support. Occasionally Markovic and Austin have come in and they can hold down a key defensive post (even though they're not world beaters, I see them both as great depth), and then there's Talia coming along now who played well last weekend.

The issue for me is that we're crying out for players in Williams' age bracket. Not just on game day, but to have around the club. He seems like a really down to earth larrikin who would be invaluable around the place. Hey, even his experience with rehab could be useful to guide younger players.

[KT31]

Higgins was taken in 2005, Williams in 2004.

It's less about his position and more about his age for mine. Whilst we lack quality big men, we have shown that we can play with Roughead down back, Young and Morris for support. Occasionally Markovic and Austin have come in and they can hold down a key defensive post (even though they're not world beaters, I see them both as great depth), and then there's Talia coming along now who played well last weekend.

The issue for me is that we're crying out for players in Williams' age bracket. Not just on game day, but to have around the club. He seems like a really down to earth larrikin who would be invaluable around the place. Hey, even his experience with rehab could be useful to guide younger players.

This does not mean we have to keep him on the list.
Make him a rookie, give him a mentoring role at the club and a leadership role with the reserves side next year.

[ledge]

Who is on our rookie list and who
Will we upgrade?

[mighty_west]

Was shocking to see him go down yet again, the poor bugger just can't take a trick, i agree with this place him on the rookie list talk and HOPE his body comes good one day, the club has invested too much just to cut him loose imo. Less of a burden being on the rookie list.

[bulldogtragic]

Was shocking to see him go down yet again, the poor bugger just can't take a trick, i agree with this place him on the rookie list talk and HOPE his body comes good one day, the club has invested too much just to cut him loose imo. Less of a burden being on the rookie list.
Do you think 17 clubs would pass to put him on their lists. And if every other club doesn't want him, why would we?

[mighty_west]

Do you think 17 clubs would pass to put him on their lists. And if every other club doesn't want him, why would we?

If we were to delist him which i don't think the club will do, i'd have no doubt abother club would at least rookie him, and try and get his body right.

[bulldogtragic]

If we were to delist him which i don't think the club will do, i'd have no doubt abother club would at least rookie him, and try and get his body right.
Then there's a chance by trying to rookie list him we could lose him. Is it worth the risk?

[mighty_west]

Then there's a chance by trying to rookie list him we could lose him. Is it worth the risk?

Given his track record with injury, but also the ease in ways he's got himself injured, not sure it would be such a huge deal if he did go elsewhere, hate to say that as I'm a huge Tommy fan and have been since we drafted him, so I'd much rather the Dogs keep him in some capacity than delist or send him elsewhere.

[Go_Dogs]

Do you think 17 clubs would pass to put him on their lists. And if every other club doesn't want him, why would we?

It's a good question to raise and there must be an element of risk if we look to move him onto the rookie list that another club could take a punt on him.

Ultimately it will depend if he's contracted for next year. Given his injury history I doubt he's on big money and if he's contracted I think maintaining him on the senior list is the safer option.

[LostDoggy]

Whichever way it pans out, it's a great test of loyalty and a good example for that debate, on both sides f the argument.

My thoughts: Give him until the end of the current contract then sit down with him and have a solid chat. I'm sure we can come up with something that suits all involved.

[lemmon]

Does the rookie list suit the situation though? Surely we want to get as many games out of him when he is fit, the rookie list doesn't really suit that having to wait till a player goes down to upgrade him. I've given up on the hope that he will ever get his body right on a semi-permanent basis, for me the situation is "he's best 22, lets get as many games as possible out of him while we can before he breaks down again".

[F'scary]

Williams needs to be upgraded.