Operation Get Tom Boyd - Done and dusted

[bornadog]

I suppose whoever drafted him might need to allow for the same time period that Hawkins took to settle in.

Yes, the same patience we need with Jones.

[The Underdog]

I'm still not sure why people think GWS would want a draft pick in the trade. They're more likely to want one elite mature player or a couple of very good mature players for the pick. To be honest I'm not sure what we could offer them outside of Griff who is untouchable or Minson who'd need to be packaged with another that would get it over the line. Plus the players would have to want to go there.

[boydogs]

I think it will need to be a ruckman, a good one at it. Trying to be objective I would rank the deals accordingly:

1. Bulldogs - Pick 3 & Minson
2. Brisbane - Pick 5 & Leuenberger
3. Carlton - Pick 9 & Kruezer
4. St. Kilda - Pick 4 & McEvoy

If I was the clubs, I would band together on their offers and demand pick 20 come back. Giving up a quality ruckman for a few spots is way, way over. A little compo would be desirable.

I take it pick 3 & Roughead would be #5?

[Remi Moses]

Interesting that The Dees get thrown up as draft failure.
Need we forget what Hawthorn did from 04 onwards?
Personally don't reckon the deal GWS want will get done.
They want 21 to 23 year olds of quality who are in teams challenging in the eight or thereabouts.
Wouldn't think that's going to happen.
Just a quick reminder to show some foresight and not live in the "now"
5 years time if you think Minson will be still in his prime you're kidding yourself.

[Dry Rot]

Yes, the same patience we need with Jones.

Except Jones isn't a forward.

[lemmon]

Interesting that The Dees get thrown up as draft failure.
Need we forget what Hawthorn did from 04 onwards?
Personally don't reckon the deal GWS want will get done.
They want 21 to 23 year olds of quality who are in teams challenging in the eight or thereabouts.
Wouldn't think that's going to happen.
Just a quick reminder to show some foresight and not live in the "now"
5 years time if you think Minson will be still in his prime you're kidding yourself.

Why do you imply that Melbourne are the anomaly and Hawthorn aren't? Hawthorn had Buddy and Cyril slide into their laps...wonder how different it would be if they had ended up with Tambling and Vezpremi who both went the pick prior...or perhaps they don't take Mitchell as a mid range pick, or choose Ball instead of Hodge.
They traded Croad who was happy to return to the club, enjoyed great success with mid round draft picks and were willing to pay heavily at the trade table to identify needs and bring in proven talent. To say that their success is a result of simply shipping talent for picks isn't true, their success is a story of picking the right player more than anything else.

[Remi Moses]

They had early picks as have Melbourne.
People just assume because Melbourne screwed up their picks and development, bottoming out is a failure.
I'm merely pointing out that this wasn't the case with Hawthorn.
Richmond have built their side around Cotchin Martin Deledio.
All early picks . Hawthorn traded out Thompson ( pretty good footballer) and Jon Hay for picks
I hate this system, but it's what we're dealt with!

[Ghost Dog]

We would have to give up a Minson or a Griffen to get that pick.
Essendon traded a number of players to get Lloyd.
Addison, Cordy, Grant Picken, type deal to get Boyd? Not specifically these, but I mean, Assemble a bunch of good average players and underdeveloped talent?

[chef]

Who would you take from:

Pick 3 & Roughead
Pick 4 & McEvoy
Pick 5 & Leuenberger
Pick 9 & Kreuzer

Everyday of the week for me.

[GVGjr]

Clubs don't trade away number one picks too easily as it's a huge selling point for the fans. As much as we need a key forward we can't sell the farm to get one. If we end having either pick 2, 3, 4 or 5 come draft day we should just take the best player available. It might be that we land Boyd anyway.

I just don't think we have the type of players to sweeten the offer sufficiently for GWS.

We have many needs so I'm sure the recruiting team can identify the right sort of players for us. We will land someone like Boyd, Scharenberg, Aish, Sheed, Kelly or maybe even someone else like Garlett which will be a positive addition to our playing list.

[soupman]

How are people not seeing that Minson and Griffen are much more than just our two best players? They are our only two leaders at the club, the two blokes that carry our side and are both great for the culture of the club. If we get rid of either one the entire responsibility of leading our club falls on the other, and almost entirely him alone.

[soupman]

We have many needs so I'm sure the recruiting team can identify the right sort of players for us. We will land someone like Boyd, Scharenberg, Aish, Sheed, Kelly or maybe even someone else like Garlett which will be a positive addition to our playing list.

This. We need quality young players in all positions. Not just a key forward. If we can't get a key forward this year then we get them next year. Paying overs for one now because we decide we are desperate will hurt us. Its hurt us in the past reaching for blokes like Tim Walsh, and paying too much for Boyd would be another reach we may regret.

And besides, who has watched us this year and decided that we dont need another skilfull mid? Wouldn't a Chad Wingard be just as valuable?

[azabob]

How are people not seeing that Minson and Griffen are much more than just our two best players? They are our only two leaders at the club, the two blokes that carry our side and are both great for the culture of the club. If we get rid of either one the entire responsibility of leading our club falls on the other, and almost entirely him alone.

Great couple of posts soupaman.

[azabob]

This. We need quality young players in all positions. Not just a key forward. If we can't get a key forward this year then we get them next year. Paying overs for one now because we decide we are desperate will hurt us. Its hurt us in the past reaching for blokes like Tim Walsh, and paying too much for Boyd would be another reach we may regret.

And besides, who has watched us this year and decided that we dont need another skilfull mid? Wouldn't a Chad Wingard be just as valuable?

I think we need a silky midfielder more. Better delivery and suddendly Jones, Stringer, Cordy, Dickson and the like, are half a chance rather than quarter of a chance.

[bornadog]

I think we need a silky midfielder more. Better delivery and suddendly Jones, Stringer, Cordy, Dickson and the like, are half a chance rather than quarter of a chance.

Operation Sheed

[LostDoggy]

Great posts guys. I'm really heading down the line of if Boyd's available at our picks (captain obvious) we take him. Doubt we have the cattle to go above Saints or Blues, and Minson/Griff are off the table.

Take best available midfielder with first and push trades like hell to get 2nd rounders to snare a Garlett\Marsh\Hartung type. GWS would likely look at Addison for a 2nd round pick given they likely wouldn't use it on a new kid, but would get a solid experienced utility.

[GVGjr]

GWS would likely look at Addison for a 2nd round pick given they likely wouldn't use it on a new kid, but would get a solid experienced utility.

I can't see them using a 2nd or even a 3rd round pick on Addison. He just wouldn't hold that much appeal for them.

[LostDoggy]

In an even scenario I'd agree with you, but they'd be getting a player of some versatility for essentially nothing (given they don't use a pick like that). They did go for our Sam Reid.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

How would a priority pick for us change things?

[GVGjr]

How would a priority pick for us change things?

It would give us currency. PP can even be traded

[azabob]

How would a priority pick for us change things?


It would give us currency. PP can even be traded

Are they awarded before the trade period ends?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Are they awarded before the trade period ends?

you would think they would be awarded at seasons end. even before finals start

[GVGjr]

Are they awarded before the trade period ends?

I believe so. The compensation picks are determined after the free agency period

[comrade]

I think we need a silky midfielder more. Better delivery and suddendly Jones, Stringer, Cordy, Dickson and the like, are half a chance rather than quarter of a chance.

+1

Every premiership team in the history of the game was built on an elite midfield group.

We can have Tom Boyd, Buddy, GAblett Senior and Piggy Dunstall roaming in the forward line and get no where with Wallis and Smith hacking the ball to them.

[LostDoggy]

We need Tom Boyd there is no doubt about that. Pick 3 will be enough to get him in the draft as i agree with Remi here that GWS is all smoke & mirrors & don't really intend to trade pick 1. Unless there is an offer too good to refuse which i can't see happening because who wants to be traded to a club who will not win a game this year? unless your getting a truck full of money!
Talk of trading Griffen for a 2 pick upgrade is close to the most ridiculous thing i've heard. Minson on the other hand i would entertain if we get their 2nd round pick back. Again i think GWS are trying to bluff us into giving them something for nothing.
Would like Jonathan Marsh with that 2nd pick, would he last that long?

It's not just the cellar-dwellers that will want Boyd. There are plenty of teams higher up the ladder who will be prepared to offer up a decent player of GWS' interest for a forward to replace their current stock in a few years' time, and save having to drop down the ladder too far when their window closes.

Let's face it, we should have traded harder a few years' back for a key forward and we'd be laughing now.

[bornadog]

It's not just the cellar-dwellers that will want Boyd. There are plenty of teams higher up the ladder who will be prepared to offer up a decent player of GWS' interest for a forward to replace their current stock in a few years' time, and save having to drop down the ladder too far when their window closes.

Let's face it, we should have traded harder a few years' back for a key forward and we'd be laughing now.

Teams like Collingwood could have players to offer up for the number one draft pick. let alone Hawks, West Coast, Richmond etc. Players that more than match what GWS are looking for.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-03/no-deal-on-griffen

answers half the unknown

[GVGjr]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-03/no-deal-on-griffen

answers half the unknown

Glad this has been answered.

[bulldogtragic]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-03/no-deal-on-griffen

answers half the unknown
Why didn't he publicly state Minno is safe?

[bornadog]

Why didn't he publicly state Minno is safe?

because the journo asked about Griff (guessing)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Why didn't he publicly state Minno is safe?

I assume he was asked by the press specifically about Griffen and he has just answered the question....just an assumption though

[GVGjr]

I assume he was asked by the press specifically about Griffen and he has just answered the question....just an assumption though

I agree with your assumption.
After confirming that it was too early in the year to be talking about list management decisions I didn't expect McCartney to go through player by player ruling out who wasn't going to be offered up as a trade candidate.

[bulldogtragic]

To put it in perspective, Patton went no1 and absolutely dominated the u/18 level with a goal scoring average of 2.8 goals per game. Very impressive by any measure.

Boyd is averaging 5 goals per game. Boyd averaged more goals than Patton as an underager last year.

I think he's more Nick Riewoldt than Clive Waterhouse.

[bornadog]

To put it in perspective, Patton went no1 and absolutely dominated the u/18 level with a goal scoring average of 2.8 goals per game. Very impressive by any measure.

Boyd is averaging 5 goals per game. Boyd averaged more goals than Patton as an underager last year.

I think he's more Nick Riewoldt than Clive Waterhouse.

All sounds good at junior levels, senior AFL is a lot different.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

To put it in perspective, Patton went no1 and absolutely dominated the u/18 level with a goal scoring average of 2.8 goals per game. Very impressive by any measure.

Boyd is averaging 5 goals per game. Boyd averaged more goals than Patton as an underager last year.

I think he's more Nick Riewoldt than Clive Waterhouse.

I dont think there is any denying how good he can be. The question is around how much are we willing to give up for him, bearing in mind that we can get a high quality midfielder with superior skills and ball use for 0 cost.

Pick 3/4 will be no dud provided our recruiting department is no dud. This years draft is supposed to be quite shallow but the top end talent (top 10ish picks) are meant to be top quality

[GVGjr]

I think he's more Nick Riewoldt than Clive Waterhouse.

I'm not knocking Waterhouse but recruiters of today wouldn't have taken him number 1.

I suppose the question that should be asked is Boyd more like Riewoldt or a Kosi?

I think he is a very good footballer but if Martin and Hogan were in the draft this year (as they should be) then Boyd wouldn't be touted as the number one pick.

We should be competitive in the trade period and see where that takes us but I wouldn't have considered moving on Minson or Griffen to get the deal done.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm not knocking Waterhouse but recruiters of today wouldn't have taken him number 1.

I suppose the question that should be asked is Boyd more like Riewoldt or a Kosi?

I think he is a very good footballer but if Martin and Hogan were in the draft this year (as they should be) then Boyd wouldn't be touted as the number one pick.

We should be competitive in the trade period and see where that takes us but I wouldn't have considered moving on Minson or Griffen to get the deal done.

It irritates me to no end to think we would have been guaranteed one of these kids.....more for the argument that we deserve a priority pick as we suffered the same fate in last years draft

[BornInDroopSt'54]

All sounds good at junior levels, senior AFL is a lot different.

Yes yet the issue of draft prospect Tom Boyd has been treated by most commentators as clearly deserving a swap of similar draft picks PLUS a star or very good player. One commentator, sorry forget who, wrote that for example Richmond to get him, their 1st r'nd pick plus Trent Cotchin should do it!!!

[bulldogtragic]

All sounds good at junior levels, senior AFL is a lot different.
But drafting kids is an in exact science. All you can go on is performance and talent. He has amazing talent and has slaughtered the best underage teams and defenders for years on end, that's all he can do. He could do his ACL three years running, it's the great unknown. His pedigree says he will be fine.

Hypothetical... In 2000 would you have traded our first pick Top 10 pick (Jordan McMahon) and Nathan Brown for Nick Riewoldt?

Would you do that trade today?

[bornadog]

But drafting kids is an in exact science. All you can go on is performance and talent. He has amazing talent and has slaughtered the best underage teams and defenders for years on end, that's all he can do. He could do his ACL three years running, it's the great unknown. His pedigree says he will be fine.

Hypothetical... In 2000 would you have traded our first pick Top 10 pick (Jordan McMahon) and Nathan Brown for Nick Riewoldt?

Would you do that trade today?

You are not getting where I am coming from. I agree with GVGjr when he says:
We should be competitive in the trade period and see where that takes us but I wouldn't have considered moving on Minson or Griffen to get the deal done.

or paying over the odds with other players and picks. We will most likely end up with pick 3, and there are plenty of young talented players out there. Watch the games this arvo and you will see.

[Greystache]

I'm not knocking Waterhouse but recruiters of today wouldn't have taken him number 1.

I suppose the question that should be asked is Boyd more like Riewoldt or a Kosi?

I think he is a very good footballer but if Martin and Hogan were in the draft this year (as they should be) then Boyd wouldn't be touted as the number one pick.

We should be competitive in the trade period and see where that takes us but I wouldn't have considered moving on Minson or Griffen to get the deal done.

I question that. Going into the national champs Hogan was the higher rated key forward but from the games I watched I thought Boyd was the better performer. They also have similar builds but Boyd is substantially taller.

I know there's question marks on Boyd's athleticism but Hogan's draft combine results weren't outstanding either. It's all hypothetical because Boyd wasn't eligible for the mini-draft but had they both played under 18's this year I think there would be debate.

[soupman]

Hypothetical... In 2000 would you have traded our first pick Top 10 pick (Jordan McMahon) and Nathan Brown for Nick Riewoldt?

Would you do that trade today?

Would you have traded Robert Murphy and pick 14 for pick 1 (Jack Watts) in 2008?

How about Brad Johnson and pick 11 in 2006 for pick 2 (Scott Gumbleton)?

Those hypothetical deals are a load of crap and yet they are both better value than Ryan Griffen and pick 3 for pick 1.

[bulldogtragic]

You are not getting where I am coming from. I agree with GVGjr when he says:

or paying over the odds with other players and picks. We will most likely end up with pick 3, and there are plenty of young talented players out there. Watch the games this arvo and you will see.
Fair enough BAD. But for sake of the argument, would you have done the trade of the untried Jordy McMahon and Nathan Brown for pick 1 - Nick Riewoldt? Would you do it now?

[soupman]

Fair enough BAD. But for sake of the argument, would you have done the trade of the untried Jordy McMahon and Nathan Brown for pick 1 - Nick Riewoldt? Would you do it now?

Of course you would do it now but at the time it could just as easily given us Koschitzke.

[bornadog]

Fair enough BAD. But for sake of the argument, would you have done the trade of the untried Jordy McMahon and Nathan Brown for pick 1 - Nick Riewoldt? Would you do it now?

Its all in hindsight.

[bulldogtragic]

Would you have traded Robert Murphy and pick 14 for pick 1 (Jack Watts) in 2008?

How about Brad Johnson and pick 11 in 2006 for pick 2 (Scott Gumbleton)?

Those hypothetical deals are a load of crap and yet they are both better value than Ryan Griffen and pick 3 for pick 1.
No one is using Griffs name. I'm not that's for sure.

The hypotheticals do work both ways I agree, but they do illustrate a point. That is risk/reward. What risk would you take to try to get the best reward? This is not an exact science, but sometimes in life you have to make calculated risks. When they pay off, it is gold. Sometimes taking the risk is what you need to do.

[bulldogtragic]

Its all in hindsight.
So that's a yes. :)

[bornadog]

So that's a yes. :)

A yes because we know what Riewoldt has achieved. Take me back to the era and I don't know what I would have said back then, probably no.

[bulldogtragic]

A yes because we know what Riewoldt has achieved. Take me back to the era and I don't know what I would have said back then, probably no.
But you can't always know the end result at the beginning. For example, I want a nice anniversary dinner in a few months. No restaurant will guarantee me I will love what they serve me. But I can do my research and make an informed decision and take the risk. In my case, I'm going to Attica. Big risk, very expensive and tripadvisor has some horror stories. But I would regret passing up the opportunity. You know regret BAD, what could have been with Dayle Garlett... I prefer to live making the odd mistake and not regretting not doing something. I've done many a stupid thing, but my regrets were not having the courage to do things. I don't think trading for Boyd would be the biggest mistake we've ever made, let alone a mistake at all. Sometimes you've got to go all in to have a big win. This club needs a big win.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Funny how this might have looked now but would we be willing to trade Ward for the no 1 pick if we still had him?

[1eyedog]

If this board even once more mentions the words Griffen and trade in the same sentence I'll spew up.

[boydogs]

Funny how this might have looked now but would we be willing to trade Ward for the no 1 pick if we still had him?

Straight swap Ward for pick 1, I reckon we would. Not Ward plus pick 3 though. Add Ward to our list and we're even more imbalanced with mids, though I suppose you would have to take Macrae back

[Dry Rot]

Sheedy's thoughts on all this

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-03/show-some-ticker-sheeds

IMO he's not after a ruckman with pick 1 - he can sort that with picks 10 or 20. Nor a ruckman + a goodish player eg Yarran

To me, Sheedy is signalling that he has Franklyn and wants a gun mid eg Pendlebury, Marc Murphy calibre in return for pick 1

[lemmon]

Sheedy's thoughts on all this

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-03/show-some-ticker-sheeds

IMO he's not after a ruckman with pick 1 - he can sort that with picks 10 or 20. Nor a ruckman + a goodish player eg Yarran

To me, Sheedy is signalling that he has Franklyn and wants a gun mid eg Pendlebury, Marc Murphy calibre in return for pick 1
Sheedy's an imbecile. What club would trade a player in the calibre of Pendlebury or Franklin in the hope that who they select may one day be as good. Just proves how much we all love something new and shiney

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sheedy's thoughts on all this

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-03/show-some-ticker-sheeds

IMO he's not after a ruckman with pick 1 - he can sort that with picks 10 or 20. Nor a ruckman + a goodish player eg Yarran

To me, Sheedy is signalling that he has Franklyn and wants a gun mid eg Pendlebury, Marc Murphy calibre in return for pick 1

And which club would be prepared to offer that for Boyd? IMO no club will give up a quality, established mid for Boyd or anyone at pick 1.

[bornadog]

Sheedy's an imbecile. What club would trade a player in the calibre of Pendlebury or Franklin in the hope that who they select may one day be as good. Just proves how much we all love something new and shiney

I thought I read that a few posters wanted to trade Griffen, so Sheedy isnot on his own.

[bulldogtragic]

Sheedy's thoughts on all this

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-03/show-some-ticker-sheeds

IMO he's not after a ruckman with pick 1 - he can sort that with picks 10 or 20. Nor a ruckman + a goodish player eg Yarran

To me, Sheedy is signalling that he has Franklyn and wants a gun mid eg Pendlebury, Marc Murphy calibre in return for pick 1
AFL360 had an interesting scenario which Gerard gave some credit to...

GWS trade pick 19 to St Kilda
St Kilda trade Montagna to Essendon
Carlton trade Yarran and Gibbs to Essendon
Essendon trade Hurley and Bellchambers to GWS
GWS trade pick 1 to Carlton
(* A first rounder needs to be added somewhere, where that is isn't clear)

To this end:

GWS: lose picks 1 & 19, gain Hurley and Bellchambers and a first rounder
St Kilda: lose Montagna, gain pick 19
Essendon: lose Hurley and Bellchambers (poss. 1st pick), gain Gibbs, Yarran, Montagna
Carlton: lose Gibbs and Yarran (poss. 1st pick), gain Tom Boyd (who barracks for them too)


Thoughts?

Could we compete with this style of trade? If there is merit, Minson and Roughy/Pick 3 would be the market rate. FFS... GWS will win big. I'm not saying no, I will back the risk, all I ask as a member is that they do all the due diligence (which they are doing).

[bulldogtragic]

I thought I read that a few posters wanted to trade Griffen, so Sheedy isnot on his own.
Who said that? That would be madness.

[lemmon]

^^Carlton would never take that deal, massively short changed. St Kilda could do better than pick 19 for Montagna on the open market, a team in the premiership window would snap him up, Essendon or Hawthorn perhaps

[Dancin' Douggy]

The sad thing about all this is just how shallow our talent pool is.
If Higgins was having a breakout season instead of having a broken foot, he might have been perfect for a trade like this. If Cooney's was fit and firing. If Jarrad Grant was sitting on 30 odd goals..........

If If If..........

Other teams have plenty of names to toss around, we have 1.

[bornadog]

The sad thing about all this is just how shallow our talent pool is.
If Higgins was having a breakout season instead of having a broken foot, he might have been perfect for a trade like this. If Cooney's was fit and firing. If Jarrad Grant was sitting on 30 odd goals..........

If If If..........

Other teams have plenty of names to toss around, we have 1.

If all of that was happening we would be winning more games

[Throughandthrough]

AFL360 had an interesting scenario which Gerard gave some credit to...

GWS trade pick 19 to St Kilda
St Kilda trade Montagna to Essendon
Carlton trade Yarran and Gibbs to Essendon
Essendon trade Hurley and Bellchambers to GWS
GWS trade pick 1 to Carlton
(* A first rounder needs to be added somewhere, where that is isn't clear)

To this end:

GWS: lose picks 1 & 19, gain Hurley and Bellchambers and a first rounder
St Kilda: lose Montagna, gain pick 19
Essendon: lose Hurley and Bellchambers (poss. 1st pick), gain Gibbs, Yarran, Montagna
Carlton: lose Gibbs and Yarran (poss. 1st pick), gain Tom Boyd (who barracks for them too)


Thoughts?

Could we compete with this style of trade? If there is merit, Minson and Roughy/Pick 3 would be the market rate. FFS... GWS will win big. I'm not saying no, I will back the risk, all I ask as a member is that they do all the due diligence (which they are doing).

You lost me at Gibbs leaves Carlton.

[Remi Moses]

AFL360 had an interesting scenario which Gerard gave some credit to...

GWS trade pick 19 to St Kilda
St Kilda trade Montagna to Essendon
Carlton trade Yarran and Gibbs to Essendon
Essendon trade Hurley and Bellchambers to GWS
GWS trade pick 1 to Carlton
(* A first rounder needs to be added somewhere, where that is isn't clear)

To this end:

GWS: lose picks 1 & 19, gain Hurley and Bellchambers and a first rounder
St Kilda: lose Montagna, gain pick 19
Essendon: lose Hurley and Bellchambers (poss. 1st pick), gain Gibbs, Yarran, Montagna
Carlton: lose Gibbs and Yarran (poss. 1st pick), gain Tom Boyd (who barracks for them too)


Thoughts?

Could we compete with this style of trade? If there is merit, Minson and Roughy/Pick 3 would be the market rate. FFS... GWS will win big. I'm not saying no, I will back the risk, all I ask as a member is that they do all the due diligence (which they are doing).

Couldn't stop laughing at Robbo and maclure's trade hypothetical .
Is anyone wondering why a departing Kevin Sheedy is driving this when he's going ?
Wonder what Leon thinks?!

[Hotdog60]

It's just Sheedy stirring the pot like he always does.

[azabob]

You lost me at Gibbs leaves Carlton.

That trade lost me when Hurley was mentioned.

[chef]

AFL360 had an interesting scenario which Gerard gave some credit to...

GWS trade pick 19 to St Kilda
St Kilda trade Montagna to Essendon
Carlton trade Yarran and Gibbs to Essendon
Essendon trade Hurley and Bellchambers to GWS
GWS trade pick 1 to Carlton
(* A first rounder needs to be added somewhere, where that is isn't clear)

To this end:

GWS: lose picks 1 & 19, gain Hurley and Bellchambers and a first rounder
St Kilda: lose Montagna, gain pick 19
Essendon: lose Hurley and Bellchambers (poss. 1st pick), gain Gibbs, Yarran, Montagna
Carlton: lose Gibbs and Yarran (poss. 1st pick), gain Tom Boyd (who barracks for them too)


Thoughts?

Could we compete with this style of trade? If there is merit, Minson and Roughy/Pick 3 would be the market rate. FFS... GWS will win big. I'm not saying no, I will back the risk, all I ask as a member is that they do all the due diligence (which they are doing).

Looks like a BF style trade. Robbo has no idea.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Looks like a BF style trade. Robbo has no idea.

Carlton wouldnt part with Gibbs, Essendon wouldnt part with Hurley for essentially 3 midfielders. I mean these clubs are pushing for finals/premierships NOW. These players have been in their respective systems for years and are in their prime. Why trade them away for a kid who will need to learn the ropes all over again? That scenario only fits a club whose finals aspirations are years away ie a bottom 4 side. Ridiculous scenario but not surprising coming from those 2

[Mantis]

Looks like a BF style trade. Robbo has no idea.

It was David King who suggested that trade.

[Twodogs]

Looks like a BF style trade. Robbo has no idea.


It was David King who suggested that trade.


I reckon that if you searched BF that you would find that very trade mentioned. It seems to be where most of the experts get their ideas from.

[bornadog]

I reckon that if you searched BF that you would find that very trade mentioned. It seems to be where most of the experts get their ideas from.

Which means they aren't experts.

[Twodogs]

Which means they aren't experts.


I meant expert in it's other form. That is ex = hasbeen and spe(u)rt = a gush of something useless.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If all of that was happening we would be winning more games

Not many.

[Bulldog4life]

I am no expert in these scenarios but I think they only hope we have of getting Boyd if there is 3 or 4 Clubs involved. It would have to be a Club such as Sydney who are not looking for a tall but wants a high draft pick. They have a strong list so say Mumford ( Pike seems to be their no.1 ruckman now) and another player to GWS. Our draft pick say no.3 to Sydney and GWS to give us pick one. There is a missing element in my theory as why should GWS give us pick one? What are we giving? But what I'm getting at is the we need a team involved who has plenty of tall forwards but wants a good draft pick to pick up a mid. We would have to offer GWS and maybe Sydney something in my scenario but not the player of the caliber of Griff or Minson.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I am no expert in these scenarios but I think they only hope we have of getting Boyd if there is 3 or 4 Clubs involved. It would have to be a Club such as Sydney who are not looking for a tall but wants a high draft pick. They have a strong list so say Mumford ( Pike seems to be their no.1 ruckman now) and another player to GWS. Our draft pick say no.3 to Sydney and GWS to give us pick one. There is a missing element in my theory as why should GWS give us pick one? What are we giving? But what I'm getting at is the we need a team involved who has plenty of tall forwards but wants a good draft pick to pick up a mid. We would have to offer GWS and maybe Sydney something in my scenario but not the player of the caliber of Griff or Minson.

Either that or catch GWS' bluff and hope Melbourne dont take him at pick 2, which they would be silly to do. GWS' strategy will certainly be interesting because they dont need the no1 pick. Will they simply take the best offer for pick 1 or will they be stubborn enough to take the best forward and play him (or another of their key forwards) in the 2's if they dont get what they want?

[bornadog]

I meant expert in it's other form. That is ex = hasbeen and spe(u)rt = a gush of something useless.

nice one.:D

[1eyedog]

That trade lost me when Hurley was mentioned.

Yep they wouldn't give him up for the world.

[Bulldog4life]

Either that or catch GWS' bluff and hope Melbourne dont take him at pick 2, which they would be silly to do. GWS' strategy will certainly be interesting because they dont need the no1 pick. Will they simply take the best offer for pick 1 or will they be stubborn enough to take the best forward and play him (or another of their key forwards) in the 2's if they dont get what they want?

According to Fox footy a number of Clubs don't believe GWS are serious about trading their number one draft pick. With Pattern injured they would be still interested in Boyd...especially too if they don't get Buddy.

[bulldogtragic]

Looks like a BF style trade. Robbo has no idea.
No, Robbos was as stupid as it comes, get this...

Pick 1: Tom Boyd, elite KPF who has completely dominated every level of footy

For

Warnock (not getting a game), Laidler (not getting a game), and Yarran (not getting a game)

Gerard laughed and said never, ever happening. How can this guy hold such a senior footy media position???

[bulldogsthru&thru]

According to Fox footy a number of Clubs don't believe GWS are serious about trading their number one draft pick. With Pattern injured they would be still interested in Boyd...especially too if they don't get Buddy.

I agree they would certainly take him if they dont get Buddy but im not sure how they can hold onto all 3 of Cameron, Patton and Boyd if they get Buddy. One would have to be playing in the 2's.

[bulldogtragic]

According to Fox footy a number of Clubs don't believe GWS are serious about trading their number one draft pick. With Pattern injured they would be still interested in Boyd...especially too if they don't get Buddy.
Catch is, they will get Buddy. AFL needs this in GWS, and over $2,000,000 per year, Buddy would be negligent not to. Therefore Patton, Cameron and Buddy alone make them quite top heavy. Boyd would be excess to needs and would be languishing in the magoos. Why spend such an amazing pick only to have them not playing AFL?

I'm sure GWS will be pricks, and perhaps their expectations lead to a conclusion that they're not serious, but for the right offer, I can only imagine thy would do it.

[LostDoggy]

No, Robbos was as stupid as it comes, get this...

Pick 1: Tom Boyd, elite KPF who has completely dominated every level of footy

For

Warnock (not getting a game), Laidler (not getting a game), and Yarran (not getting a game)

Gerard laughed and said never, ever happening. How can this guy hold such a senior footy media position???

Good bloke, writes hard.

[bulldogtragic]

Good bloke, writes hard.
:)

I wonder, we will still be quoting the 'Macca Mantra' in a decade? I think it's here to stay.

[wimberga]

The thing with GWS is, they probably wont need Boyd. But if we want him, we need to be in discussions about what it might take to get the deal done.

Whilst it is entirely possible GWS get Franklin, Scharenberg with number 1 and Melbourne take Aish with number 2, we could do nothing and get Boyd. The problem is, if GWS isn't serious about him, then we can't simply "call their bluff" as they may very well just trade pick 1 to another club.

I like the idea of getting Boyd and getting a number 1 pick (albeit compromised with Hogan & Martin gone) is a huge coup for the club. As long as we don't pay overs this is great. Conversely, after seeing some of the championships, I will be extremely happy if we end up with any of Aish, Scharenberg, Sheed, Billings, Kelly or Freeman.

Therefore, IMO the only way we can really lose here is if we give up too much.

[chef]

It was David King who suggested that trade.

Doesn't surprise me.

[Mantis]

No, Robbos was as stupid as it comes, get this...

Pick 1: Tom Boyd, elite KPF who has completely dominated every level of footy

For

Warnock (not getting a game), Laidler (not getting a game), and Yarran (not getting a game) + Carlton's 1st pick

Gerard laughed and said never, ever happening. How can this guy hold such a senior footy media position???

You missed a bit, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[bulldogtragic]

You missed a bit, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
My bad. Still crazy stuff. Still dismissed by Gerard too.... Quote "I'm not even considering that (if I'm GWS)".

Still, its 3 fringe players, two of which most likely aren't considered required players, and pick 10. It's the stuff close to the reason I left BF.

[chef]

No, Robbos was as stupid as it comes, get this...

Pick 1: Tom Boyd, elite KPF who has completely dominated every level of footy

For

Warnock (not getting a game), Laidler (not getting a game), and Yarran (not getting a game)

Gerard laughed and said never, ever happening. How can this guy hold such a senior footy media position???

Lol.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

No, Robbos was as stupid as it comes, get this...

Pick 1: Tom Boyd, elite KPF who has completely dominated every level of footy

For

Warnock (not getting a game), Laidler (not getting a game), and Yarran (not getting a game)

Gerard laughed and said never, ever happening. How can this guy hold such a senior footy media position???

we could easily trump that with pick 3 and 3 blokes GETTING a game for us and effectively cost us nothing

[Topdog]

Is Boyd even that good? Hogan was available last year and we didn't even try by the looks of it

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Is Boyd even that good? Hogan was available last year and we didn't even try by the looks of it

I only remember going after Jack Martin but Gold Coast trumped us. Dont remember hearing anything about Hogan which would be a bit odd but maybe Melbourne simply trumped us there too? Both would have fell apart for us when Gold Coast didnt bid on Viney

[bornadog]

I only remember going after Jack Martin but Gold Coast trumped us. Dont remember hearing anything about Hogan which would be a bit odd but maybe Melbourne simply trumped us there too? Both fell apart when Gold Coast didnt bid on Viney

Melbourne had the earlier pick they could offer, which basically trumped us.

[Happy Days]

Melbourne had the earlier pick they could offer, which basically trumped us.

I think we might have had more faith in Jones/Cordy at the time too.

[Pickenitup]

Would GWs Take our pick 3 Higgins and Cooney?

[chef]

Would GWs Take our pick 3 Higgins and Cooney?

No..

[bulldogtragic]

Would GWs Take our pick 3 Higgins and Cooney?
At very best I see Cooney's value in upgrading our pick 21 to around 15 if we're able to find a club that believe in magic beans. Higgins perhaps upgrading from 37 to 30. I might be even over estimating it as I would do both those deals.

[Cyberdoggie]

If Boyd's as god as everyone's saying it's not going to take him ten years to start impacting games.

Certainly not at 102kg's!

[Throughandthrough]

Would GWs Take our pick 3 Higgins and Cooney?

Possibly, they sadly lack depth and experience. Nowhere near as successfull with their recruiting as the Suns

[1eyedog]

The thing with GWS is, they probably wont need Boyd. But if we want him, we need to be in discussions about what it might take to get the deal done.

Whilst it is entirely possible GWS get Franklin, Scharenberg with number 1 and Melbourne take Aish with number 2, we could do nothing and get Boyd. The problem is, if GWS isn't serious about him, then we can't simply "call their bluff" as they may very well just trade pick 1 to another club.

I like the idea of getting Boyd and getting a number 1 pick (albeit compromised with Hogan & Martin gone) is a huge coup for the club. As long as we don't pay overs this is great. Conversely, after seeing some of the championships, I will be extremely happy if we end up with any of Aish, Scharenberg, Sheed, Billings, Kelly or Freeman.

Therefore, IMO the only way we can really lose here is if we give up too much.

Surely we have enough inside mids don't you think?

[Go_Dogs]

McCartin looked good as a KPF the other day in the champs. Goddard was a key forward in the U16's and was a gun. This might be the better option. Draft some good runners this year and wait till next year to get a KPF.

I tend to agree with this line of thinking.

I just can't see the value in trading out someone like Minson and pick 3 to get pick 1. It just creates a bigger whole in our list. The likelihood is we'll finish towards the bottom next year and will have the chance to grab an elite tall. We can look to add a stopgap player this year (Gumbleton) or perhaps secure someone like Crameri (although seems unlikely at present) to give us a more immediate fix in the shorter term and secure a good running player with skills this year with our first selection.


Another option could be to try and get a deal with Essendon and GWS and us, if we are really desperate to add Crameri.

Ie. GWS - Get Bellchambers and pick 3, give up pick 1 and pick 20.
Dogs - Get Crameri and pick 20, give up pick 3 and pick 25(ish)
Bombers - Get pick 1 and pick 25(ish)

Or something like that. (Off the top of my head, without too much thought so please don't be overly critical of me if I'm miles off the mark - long day).

[wimberga]

Surely we have enough inside mids don't you think?

I definitely think we have enough inside mid's, but I see Sheed as one of those players that can win it in close (B-macs mantra) but also has the polish on the outside (which few of our current guys have).

I'm not saying I know a lot about all those guys, just what I saw at the championships and have read online. But with that information, I wouldn't be ruling Sheed out.

Do you have some thoughts on those young guys 1ED? always enjoying reading others thoughts on who we may take.

[bulldogtragic]

I tend to agree with this line of thinking.

I just can't see the value in trading out someone like Minson and pick 3 to get pick 1. It just creates a bigger whole in our list. The likelihood is we'll finish towards the bottom next year and will have the chance to grab an elite tall. We can look to add a stopgap player this year (Gumbleton) or perhaps secure someone like Crameri (although seems unlikely at present) to give us a more immediate fix in the shorter term and secure a good running player with skills this year with our first selection.


Another option could be to try and get a deal with Essendon and GWS and us, if we are really desperate to add Crameri.

Ie. GWS - Get Bellchambers and pick 3, give up pick 1 and pick 20.
Dogs - Get Crameri and pick 20, give up pick 3 and pick 25(ish)
Bombers - Get pick 1 and pick 25(ish)

Or something like that. (Off the top of my head, without too much thought so please don't be overly critical of me if I'm miles off the mark - long day).
Ok, I'll be nice. Essentially pick 3 for Crameri might be a little over the odds. I see us screwed royally here. Anyhoo up there for trying.

[chef]

Pick 3 for Crameri is crazy

[bornadog]

Ok, I'll be nice. Essentially pick 3 for Crameri might be a little over the odds. I see us screwed royally here. Anyhoo up there for trying.

BT, please no.

Lets just pick the best available at our first pick. They will be a very good player, given what we have seen in the under 18 championships.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, please no.

Lets just pick the best available at our first pick. They will be a very good player, given what we have seen in the under 18 championships.
Sorry BAD I think we are lost in translation. I'm saying trading pick 3 for Crameri is crazy.

[bornadog]

Sorry BAD I think we are lost in translation. I'm saying trading pick 3 for Crameri is crazy.

yeah sorry mate.

[jeemak]

I'm in the camp of putting up our third draft pick, and maybe a Liberatore and that's about it. Really, it's as much as we have to offer that GWS might be interested in (Griffen and Minson are off limits for mine) and he's probably a player more easily replaced on our list than what a McCrae might turn out to be.

I suppose, it shows how thin we are for credible, demonstrated and reliable talent at this point that I'm even considering giving up Liberatore.

If that won't get the job done, we move on and draft the best clean and quick mid/forward utility we can find.

There's no sure benefit in any scenario that eventuates, nor are there sure negatives and IMO we are an equal chance of winning or losing in each.

[Go_Dogs]

Ok, I'll be nice. Essentially pick 3 for Crameri might be a little over the odds. I see us screwed royally here. Anyhoo up there for trying.

You're right, like I said it was a quick effort :o , perhaps another second round pick could get it over the line.

I guess it depends on whether we're confident we could get that/those outside players we want in the 20-25 range or not.

At the end of the day, I'm happy to continue going through the draft, but we as supporters must realise it's a long road we're going down - most are at the end of their tether already and want short term, instantaneous results. The draft simply doesn't achieve that.

[Dry Rot]

If we finish third last behind GWS and the Dees, we have a good chance IMO of landing Boyd with pick 3.

Bookmark it.

GWS can get a good ruck and tall defender with picks 10 and 20. IMO they have Franklin in the bag and need a gun developed mid of Pendlebury quality.

If they can't get that with a pick 1 trade IMO they will get the best young mid at pick 1. I think they are waking up to the guns that Gold Coast have.

[1eyedog]

I definitely think we have enough inside mid's, but I see Sheed as one of those players that can win it in close (B-macs mantra) but also has the polish on the outside (which few of our current guys have).

I'm not saying I know a lot about all those guys, just what I saw at the championships and have read online. But with that information, I wouldn't be ruling Sheed out.

Do you have some thoughts on those young guys 1ED? always enjoying reading others thoughts on who we may take.

Apologies I surmised Sheed was all outside. Not sure Wimberga but my 'rather uniformed' feeling is we need a CHF.

I've been impressed by Mitch Harvey, while he hasn't kicked big bags of goals he kicked 6 against country Vic I think in the champs but more importantly he's big, has great hands and is an elite kick. He's a real CHF which I think we lack going forward. He also injured himself quite badly about 18 months ago and may slip to an early second round pick. In saying that I don't know a lot about the top 10 candidates this year, seems a bit light on for size and class though.

We lack a clean user and from what other WOOF posters tell me James Aish bring this. Obviously am very keen on Boyd.

[Remi Moses]

Reynolds ( Scott Lucas like) would be my preferred option or Hourigan( although not tall)
Harvey is also talented. McCarthy from WA was also impressive before unfortunately breaking his leg.
Still maintain Sheedy's playing poker with this number 1 pick. I just don't see teams, in particular ones approaching finals contention giving up a classy 21-23 year old.
Just wondering what next seasons coach thinks of Sheedy making decisions that will impact his tenure.

[Topdog]

I think the other important thing to remember is do you remember what Sheedy is like to trade with? he'll want the Earth for #1

[LostDoggy]

Harvey moves and is built (at this stage) a lot like Hurley. He's also been impressive.

I just get the feeling about McCarthy that he's more of a project forward (like we need another of them)... A multi sporting background, he's got undoubted talent, he's just a long way off being an sooner rather than later KP forward due to his need to bulk up, build a tank and learning to play against men. His injury and those factors will see him slip somewhere around mid 3rd round imo.

Sheed appears all class. The kid reads the play well, runs both inside and out and kicks goals. Not to compare him too much to the great man, but all his attributes make me think Chris Judd. I just can't think of another that he macthes up too at the moment.

I think Sheedy is just testing the waters. I think they'll use pick one, maybe not on Boyd, but they'll retain it unless they get an offer too good to refuse. Can't see how we fit into this category.

We've got to push trades for early to late 2nd rounders. Aim at those teams looking for depth/harder bodies. That's where we may snag one of these SA talls, a Garlett, even though he may go earlier.

About time we opened up a Phantom Draft thread to start looking at who may go where and who we may trade with to get those later picks.

[Twodogs]

If we finish third last behind GWS and the Dees, we have a good chance IMO of landing Boyd with pick 3.

Bookmark it.

GWS can get a good ruck and tall defender with picks 10 and 20. IMO they have Franklin in the bag and need a gun developed mid of Pendlebury quality.

If they can't get that with a pick 1 trade IMO they will get the best young mid at pick 1. I think they are waking up to the guns that Gold Coast have.


I think we'll finish second last.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think we'll finish second last.

Really? Might all depend on this weekends result but we may even finish 4th last ahead of Saints

[bornadog]

I think we'll finish second last.

I agree. I got this feeling that Melbourne are going to win a few games. I was impressed by some of their young players last week, and whatever you think of Dawes, he is a target up there. Frawley is a very good fullback and there defence seems ok. I think they need to get more into their midfield and they may win a few.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Buddy's agent has said he is confident Franklin will stay at hawthorn....operation Boyd would then be over

[Remi Moses]

Had to laugh at old man Bartlett.
Reckons we've got nobody to give GWS( right there)
Then goes on to say Carlton could give up Warnock and Hampson and Yarran!
Time to get on the Zimmerframe and head to the retirement home

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Had to laugh at old man Bartlett.
Reckons we've got nobody to give GWS( right there)
Then goes on to say Carlton could give up Warnock and Hampson and Yarran!
Time to get on the Zimmerframe and head to the retirement home

i wouldnt give that tool the time of day. Complete moron

[Dancin' Douggy]

I've got a deal for Tom Boyd that GWS couldn't possibly say no to.

We will trade GWS Pick one for our first draft pick for FIVE CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Yes FIVE CONSECUTIVE YEARS

Higgins, Everitt (read Vez), Grant, Cordy, Howard.

DONE! oh wait...............

[LostDoggy]

Had to laugh at old man Bartlett.
Reckons we've got nobody to give GWS( right there)
Then goes on to say Carlton could give up Warnock and Hampson and Yarran!
Time to get on the Zimmerframe and head to the retirement home

He's always been a tool. Nothing to do with his age.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Interesting article in the HUN from Alistair Lynch. Suggesting Brisbane should go hard for the no1 pick. He also suggested essendon could be involved which I still don't get why they would.
Strange article though. Suggested Carlton and north wouldn't be pushing for finals in 5 years??? Strange trade ideas too: Longer OR Merret for Brisbane, Jamison and Hampson for Carlton, Hurley and Bellchambers for Essendon. Wouldn't think that would get the job done and don't think essendon would part with Hurley

[GVGjr]

Interesting article in the HUN from Alistair Lynch. Suggesting Brisbane should go hard for the no1 pick. He also suggested essendon could be involved which I still don't get why they would.
Strange article though. Suggested Carlton and north wouldn't be pushing for finals in 5 years??? Strange trade ideas too: Longer OR for Brisbane, Jamison and Hampson for Carlton, Hurley and Bellchambers for . Wouldn't think that would get the job done and don't think essendon would part with Hurley

In the Age it's suggesting that Buddy might not be going to GWS which in turn indicates that the pick won't be traded

[bulldogsthru&thru]

In the Age it's suggesting that Buddy might not be going to GWS which in turn indicates that the pick won't be traded

Yes I read that too. Could it be a bargaining tactic? From reports as recent as last week Franklin was all but gone.

Agree though. If buddy stays GWS will take Boyd at 1

[wimberga]

The more I think about this, the less I believe the pick will actually be traded (to us at least). They might as well just pick him and trade him later or worst case, play him :) haha.

That will basically leave us to pick up one of Aish, Scharenberg, Kelly or Billings.

Which one do we most want/need?

[bornadog]

The more I think about this, the less I believe the pick will actually be traded (to us at least). They might as well just pick him and trade him later or worst case, play him :) haha.

That will basically leave us to pick up one of Aish, Scharenberg, Kelly or Billings.

Which one do we most want/need?

Aish or Scharenberg would be fine.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Aish or Scharenberg would be fine.

I see Aish going to Melbourne. Scharenberg certainly wouldn't be bad though

[w3design]

Billings for me.

[LostDoggy]

I think we should forget about Boyd. Would have to give up way too much to get him. Selling our soul might be very destructive of intangibles like club fabric.

My first preference is to trade out older mids such as Boyd, Cross or Cooney (plus later draft pick) for an experienced forward. We need to get one capable forward who knows how to lead. Gumbleton could be it, but I am not confident in his body as he seems to be injury prone, nor would I think Essendon would be reasonable about what they ask for in return. And I'm not sure there is anyone who we could entice who will be any better than middling average anyway.

My second preference is to use our first round pick to chase a silky skilled, intuitive half back / inside-outside hard nut. (preferably with a raking left foot and rapier like accuracy).

My third preference is for us to chase another silky skilled midfielder with our second pick. Now this pick may have gone if we have to use it to get an experienced forward.

Next, select a another young forward we wish to develop over time.

Getting a young forward as our first target seems to be the opposite of what our forward line needs. Stringer, for example, has done nothing like what some posters predicted he would do. He is young, inconsistent and will be learning for some time to come. Jones, the same. Do we want to fill up the forward line with such youngsters? Those crying out for success now may have to wait even longer.

I would prefer we use the draft and trade as we did in 2012. This is much less expensive than throwing the kitchen sink at Boyd.

[bornadog]

Everyone wants something for nothing:


Carlton coach Mick Malthouse has declared former top draft picks Bryce Gibbs and Matthew Kreuzer "untouchable", insisting the pair will remain at the club next season.
Midfielder Gibbs and ruckman Kreuzer have been mentioned in the football industry as possible trade chips, particularly if the Blues attempt to pry the number one pick in this year's draft from Greater Western Sydney, thereby giving them the chance to secure boom TAC Cup forward, Tom Boyd.

[bulldogtragic]

Everyone wants something for nothing:
Can't they just cheat the system...

[bornadog]

Can't they just cheat the system...

Carlton - never:D

[bulldogtragic]

Carlton - never:D
That's a bit defeatist BAD.

Sure Pratt is dead, Collo retired on ill health and Elliott ruined, but the 'can-do' spirit never dies!

[anfo27]

Everyone wants something for nothing:

If Carlton did that trade they would just be admitting to a rebuild & Mick is not getting paid 7 figures for a rebuild.

[azabob]

Can't they just cheat the system...

That's their theory on rock 'n' roll, no doubt.

[bulldogtragic]

Just spent some time looking things up on young Boyd.

In a AIS game against Collingwood VFL three months ago, he took the best defender, got 16 possies, 10 marks (5 contested) and had multiple shots. This year in the TAC Cup, he's been BOG twice, in the bests once in 5 games. Averaging 4.6 goals. (Averaged 3 goals as an underager the year before).

In comparison Patton was 2.8 goals, Cameron 2.1 goals and Hogan this year in the VFL is going at 3 goals. Tim Membrey was 3.6. Tom Lynch (GCS) 2 goals. Daniher 3 goals. John Butcher about 2.5 goals.

Is this enough output to make you want him at whatever cost?

[LostDoggy]

Nobody wants him 'at all costs' as far as i'm aware.

Stats aren't the be-all in determining the potential of a forward - or any pre-drafted player for that matter. It's build, athletic ability, height, football brain/awareness, attitude, agility etc. Stats would be the last consideration, if they're a consideration at all.

[Remi Moses]

Interesting some of the numpties who'd swap Warnock or Duigan or Laidler!

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting some of the numpties who'd swap Warnock or Duigan or Laidler!
That's the equivalent of Campbell, DFA and Vez!

[1eyedog]

I think we should forget about Boyd. Would have to give up way too much to get him. Selling our soul might be very destructive of intangibles like club fabric.

My first preference is to trade out older mids such as Boyd, Cross or Cooney (plus later draft pick) for an experienced forward. We need to get one capable forward who knows how to lead. Gumbleton could be it, but I am not confident in his body as he seems to be injury prone, nor would I think Essendon would be reasonable about what they ask for in return. And I'm not sure there is anyone who we could entice who will be any better than middling average anyway.

My second preference is to use our first round pick to chase a silky skilled, intuitive half back / inside-outside hard nut. (preferably with a raking left foot and rapier like accuracy).

My third preference is for us to chase another silky skilled midfielder with our second pick. Now this pick may have gone if we have to use it to get an experienced forward.

Next, select a another young forward we wish to develop over time.

Getting a young forward as our first target seems to be the opposite of what our forward line needs. Stringer, for example, has done nothing like what some posters predicted he would do. He is young, inconsistent and will be learning for some time to come. Jones, the same. Do we want to fill up the forward line with such youngsters? Those crying out for success now may have to wait even longer.

I would prefer we use the draft and trade as we did in 2012. This is much less expensive than throwing the kitchen sink at Boyd.

Is this an oxymoron? I've never really been sure what that word represents but I reckon that it should be close to the end of your first sentence and the start of your second.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It depends if GWS are serious about trading pick one, and it depends what they are asking.

If they want Griffen, no.

Pick 3 and Minson? I'd want a sweetner, but it has merit for us in the long term.

[bulldogtragic]

From the net:

Draftees In Focus: Tom Boyd
July 12, 2013

Height: 199cm
Weight: 104kg
Team/Club: Victoria Metro/Eastern Ranges/Norwood FC
Position: Power Forward
Player Comparision: Jonathan Brown
Draft Range: 1-3

Bio:

If you could morph the two best forwards of the past decade in Jonathon Brown and Nick Reiwoldt, then the result would be Tom Boyd. So big is Boyd, that he has the brute, the size and endurance to line up Round 1 of the 2014 season. Boyd is an imposing and physical forward, who’s sheer size alone makes it difficult for the opposition to match up on. Boyd’s contested marking, ability to take the ball at it’s highest point, and out in front make him a nusence for opposition teams. Boyd’s technique in front of goal is faultless, and his team-first attitutde to bring the ball to ground to allow his smaller forwards to run on, is a trait that speaks volumes of the type of player Boyd is . A prodigee, Boyd is remarkably clean below his knees, unstoppage in the air, is prone to kicking bags of goals, and his one-grab marks and sticky fingers in even the biggest of packs has already got AFL clubs pondering what they could give up, to get their hands on GWS’ number 1 pick, in order to get the gun forward. Boyd doesn’t mind throwing his weight around, either. He tackles, sheppards, crashes packs – all key attributes to a long-term gun forward. Boyd has also shown the ability to play as a relief ruckman for the Eastern Rangers this year, another feather in his cap that recruiters have surely taken note of. Boyd is expected to return to TAC Cup football for the Eastern Ranges in a few weeks, after going down with an ankle injury early in the National Championships.

Quote:

“When I think about it, I’m a similar size to those guys who are playing really well in the AFL, so my size is maybe an excuse for me being good now, but at the end of the day those guys playing AFL now are pretty similar in size and shape. That gives me a bit of confidence that in terms of body composition and that kind of thing I’m not that far away.” - Tom Boyd

Strengths:

size, strength, mobility, agile, big endurance, powefully built, contested marker, dead-eye on goal, beautiful kicking technique, physically imposing, accurate long kick for goal, demands the ball, makes multiple leads, fantastic burst of speed off the mark, extremly difficult to match up on, courgeous, a leader, takes the ball at the highest point and out in front, protects the ball drop, very good beneath his knees, knows when to bring the ball to ground, will tackle, chase and sheppard, has also shown the ability to ruck whilst forward, and is a very humble, well spoken player off the field means he’ll be the poster boy for the club he gets drafted to.

Weaknessess:

The only whack on Boyd is that sometimes he can get a little aggrivated by the opposition niggling and trying to get under his skin. It’s something he is getting a lot better at (before going down with an ankle injury).

Stats:

Round 2 - 14 disposals, 7 marks and 6 goals
Round 3 – 7 disposals, 5 marks and 3 goals (before going down with injury)
23 goals off 5 games in TAC Cup 2013 (before going down with injury)
44 goals in the TAC Cup in 2012 as a bottom age player
recorded a 2.95 sec 20m sprint time at the TAC Cup Testing day in March this year
Honours

Captained the AFL-AIS Team in England 2013
AFL-AIS Member 2013
All Australian 2013

[mighty_west]

Imagine in a few years time, a forward line including Boyd [if he's as good as what the experts say], Stringer, Jones & Grant running around.

Would really hate to lose a player like Minson, but if this Boyd kid is one of those once in a generation key forwards, we may have to just bite the bullet, apart from Barry Hall, it's been so long since we've had a strong/dominant forward line, it's been so frustrating having long bombs going to Gia, Higgins, Johnno, Garlick, N Brown etc etc.

One thing hat irked me was a commentator [can't remember which one] saying one of the big clubs like Carlton will probably end up snaring him.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Imagine in a few years time, a forward line including Boyd [if he's as good as what the experts say], Stringer, Jones & Grant running around.

Would really hate to lose a player like Minson, but if this Boyd kid is one of those once in a generation key forwards, we may have to just bite the bullet, apart from Barry Hall, it's been so long since we've had a strong/dominant forward line, it's been so frustrating having long bombs going to Gia, Higgins, Johnno, Garlick, N Brown etc etc.

One thing hat irked me was a commentator [can't remember which one] saying one of the big clubs like Carlton will probably end up snaring him.

Considering Carlton have declared Kruezer, Gibbs, Murphy etc off limits I don't see how he could go to Carlton. Yarran/Gartlett and another player won't even come close to getting the job done. Franklin might stay a hawk in which case Boyd will go to GWS anyway

[LostDoggy]

I think we are dreaming that Boyd could get to the Doggies.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think we are dreaming that Boyd could get to the Doggies.

The only way it is even remotely possible is if Franklin goes to GWS, no other club is willing to give up the farm for pick 1, GWS picks Scharenburg as they don't need another giant forward and we have pick 3. Melbourne won't take Boyd....So yeah the planets need to align

[bornadog]

The only way it is even remotely possible is if Franklin goes to GWS, no other club is willing to give up the farm for pick 1, GWS picks Scharenburg as they don't need another giant forward and we have pick 3. Melbourne won't take Boyd....So yeah the planets need to align

May end up at the Saints.

[SlimPickens]

May end up at the Saints.

Will end up there if they have a pick before us, for sure.

[bornadog]

Will end up there if they have a pick before us, for sure.

They have two games that are maybe winnable. Should beat GC, and Brisbane is no cert. The rest of the games are against top 8 clubs.

It will come down to the wire on who finishes above who.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

They have two games that are maybe winnable. Should beat GC, and Brisbane is no cert. The rest of the games are against top 8 clubs.

It will come down to the wire on who finishes above who.

They need to win 2 more games for sure assumin we beat Melbourne in rd23....winnable games are Port Etihad, Brisbane over there and GC here. Will go to the wire for sure. Will absolutely be spewing if he lands at Saints.

[bulldogtragic]

They need to win 2 more games for sure assumin we beat Melbourne in rd23....winnable games are Port Etihad, Brisbane over there and GC here. Will go to the wire for sure. Will absolutely be spewing if he lands at Saints.
I can't see Boyd going anywhere below pick 1.

GWS will take him if they don't get Buddy, if they do get Buddy I'm sure a club will offer something pretty special that GWS will take (I.e. a very good player plus a top 10 pick).

[LostDoggy]

Maybe this years draft is being approached in the wrong manner (theoretically here anyway).

What's the likelihood of GWS realistically using their activated mid round pick this season if they get Buddy or keep pick 1 and get Boyd? What's the chance they'll want to use their first pick in the second round?

I can't think of a deal for a champion with future value for us / potential gun that we've got currently that I'd want to give them to get Boyd.

Who could we trade, that they'd want, that'd potentially see us secure one of, if not both, of the picks mentioned? The picks are basically pick 10 and pick 20 (not taking into account priority picks)

If they were secured we could mine this draft with maybe a priority of our own - possibly picks 3, 10, 20, 21 with a priority after our last also.

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe this years draft is being approached in the wrong manner (theoretically here anyway).

What's the likelihood of GWS realistically using their activated mid round pick this season if they get Buddy or keep pick 1 and get Boyd? What's the chance they'll want to use their first pick in the second round?

I can't think of a deal for a champion with future value for us / potential gun that we've got currently that I'd want to give them to get Boyd.

Who could we trade, that they'd want, that'd potentially see us secure one of, if not both, of the picks mentioned? The picks are basically pick 10 and pick 20 (not taking into account priority picks)

If they were secured we could mine this draft with maybe a priority of our own - possibly picks 3, 10, 20, 21 with a priority after our last also.
We have picks say 3 and 22. Say Cooney leaves, add pick 23.

3, 22, 23.

I will only nominate players GWS would want, that's Griff, Libba or Minson. Next level down, maybe Wallis. I would not trade Griff or Libba, and I'm not sure we'd get value for Minno or Wallis if they are not packaged for Boyd. So I'm not sure how we could get picks 10 and 20. Maybe Minno for pick 20 and Jaksch. But that's a massive call on Minno. Massive.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe this years draft is being approached in the wrong manner (theoretically here anyway).

What's the likelihood of GWS realistically using their activated mid round pick this season if they get Buddy or keep pick 1 and get Boyd? What's the chance they'll want to use their first pick in the second round?

I can't think of a deal for a champion with future value for us / potential gun that we've got currently that I'd want to give them to get Boyd.

Who could we trade, that they'd want, that'd potentially see us secure one of, if not both, of the picks mentioned? The picks are basically pick 10 and pick 20 (not taking into account priority picks)

If they were secured we could mine this draft with maybe a priority of our own - possibly picks 3, 10, 20, 21 with a priority after our last also.

Maybe Easton for pick 20 or Addison for the GWS 3rd rounder? That's about as far as trading our current list could get us too I think. Alternatively, if Cooney goes under free agency and we get an end of 1st round pick that still opens up lots of options. I'm not pushing him toward it but an Acres, McCarthy, Conlon or Hartung could easily drop out the back of round 1 and an extra pick for +1 of that group could be massively valuable long-term.

I still think going hard for Kristian Jaksch would be a great trade win. He's had another year of development under his belt with GWS and could hopefully slide in with some form of immediate impact. Less risk than Gumby and good potential upside. Just hope there are smarter people than Sheedy in decision making roles at that crap club who will look outside of being a smart@rse to try to find a win:win trade with us.

[bornadog]

Dogs wary of GWS trade (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2013-07-18/dogs-wary-of-gws-trade)

With the Western Bulldogs in need of a key forward, the fact the Giants are prepared to trade potential No.1, Tom Boyd, seems like a golden opportunity for the club. But the public admission has made Dogs coach Brendan McCartney suspicious.

McCartney has admitted in the past he 'would like' to acquire a forward in the off-season, and Boyd fits that category.

But he has now become wary of the Giants' motives for shopping around the No.1 pick,

"They were so public with that, then all of the sudden you get twelve to fifteen clubs jumping over each other," McCartney said on Thursday.

"Sometimes you get in those boat races [and] you give up more than you really want to give up.

"It's an interesting ploy to throw the big carrot up and watch everyone go snapping after it."

Despite his concerns, the Bulldogs may still trade for the pick. When asked about making a play for Boyd, McCartney responded with "maybe".

"We just meet every three or four weeks and talk about what we want to do to shape our team, what we need, and all those things are part of the discussion, as probably sixteen other clubs are talking about," he said.

"You make provisions and plans, and we're no different.

"There are still three ways to get players to your club. We'll look at all those like we did last year. We know we have young forwards here who are carrying a lot of responsibility.

"We'll get a dividend out of that in time, but they probably could do with a little bit of help, and could do with some better supply.

"It's not as simple as put a player in the forward line and say, 'right there you go, everything's fixed'. You need the right type of player and the right type of person that fits what we're doing."

[bulldogtragic]

Trying to read the tea leaves, it looks to me as that we are after him to a point.

I wonder what that point is?

[LostDoggy]

Maybe Easton for pick 20 or Addison for the GWS 3rd rounder? That's about as far as trading our current list could get us too I think. Alternatively, if Cooney goes under free agency and we get an end of 1st round pick that still opens up lots of options. I'm not pushing him toward it but an Acres, McCarthy, Conlon or Hartung could easily drop out the back of round 1 and an extra pick for +1 of that group could be massively valuable long-term.


Easton and Dylan would be the considerations, but maybe push for the pick 10 and their second rounder for a dual swap? Remembering that GWS aren't like any other team - They've got a long list of first and second rounders. They need mature bodies in the right age group.

The 'value' of their draft picks isn't a consideration after pick one imo. Their value perception is getting the right type of player.

At least push for that pick combo anyway.

[Dancin' Douggy]

If you could go back in time.
With the knowledge you have now.
Would you take Buddy over Griffen in that draft?

Are we, in a way, getting the chance to do that now?

[bulldogtragic]

If you could go back in time.
With the knowledge you have now.
Would you take Buddy over Griffen in that draft?

Are we, in a way, getting the chance to do that now?
A closer representation would be swapping Griffen and A 24yo Bob Murphy for Buddy. (I.e. pick 3 and an AA player)

I think their is complete merit for both yes and no.

[LostDoggy]

Easton and Dylan would be the considerations, but maybe push for the pick 10 and their second rounder for a dual swap? Remembering that GWS aren't like any other team - They've got a long list of first and second rounders. They need mature bodies in the right age group.

The 'value' of their draft picks isn't a consideration after pick one imo. Their value perception is getting the right type of player.

At least push for that pick combo anyway.

If I was GWS I would see that as overs. I could quite happily offer up pick 3, and 2 of Addison/Wood and Grant if he keeps performing & if GWS wanted 2 of them. In return I would want Jaksch (pick 12 last year tall forward), pick 10 (outside mid or another promising tall in McCarthy) and pick 20 (say Acres to solve some of our half-back issue). Still leaves us with pick 22 as well so you might get a Hartung type to add speed to our midfield. That would save our rebuild 2 years potentially. Only issue is you miss the chance for Sharenberg/Aish early but I'm not convinced either are that much better than picks likely to be in the 8-15 range longer term. I think there is a good spread of talent to about mid 20's and its less focused in the top 10 than last year. Certainly there is a wider spread of option who goes when right through the 1st round.

GWS would probably go for the 1 premium pick and a couple of reasonably solid B graders who have the right age character to help until their A grade kids harden into those roles. We need to give Dalrymple more top end picks to find "good young kids who fit the mold" and 4 picks in or near round 1 gives him a great range to work with rather than 1 potential top ender and an early 2nd rounder.

[DragzLS1]

Get Boyd! Him and Jones would be dangerous with some good delivery. It will come..

[bulldogsthru&thru]

If I was GWS I would see that as overs. I could quite happily offer up pick 3, and 2 of Addison/Wood and Grant if he keeps performing & if GWS wanted 2 of them. In return I would want Jaksch (pick 12 last year tall forward), pick 10 (outside mid or another promising tall in McCarthy) and pick 20 (say Acres to solve some of our half-back issue). Still leaves us with pick 22 as well so you might get a Hartung type to add speed to our midfield. That would save our rebuild 2 years potentially. Only issue is you miss the chance for Sharenberg/Aish early but I'm not convinced either are that much better than picks likely to be in the 8-15 range longer term. I think there is a good spread of talent to about mid 20's and its less focused in the top 10 than last year. Certainly there is a wider spread of option who goes when right through the 1st round.

GWS would probably go for the 1 premium pick and a couple of reasonably solid B graders who have the right age character to help until their A grade kids harden into those roles. We need to give Dalrymple more top end picks to find "good young kids who fit the mold" and 4 picks in or near round 1 gives him a great range to work with rather than 1 potential top ender and an early 2nd rounder.

From a lot of reports this years draft is quite the opposite. Top 10 really good but the rest of the pool is quite shallow. Obviously a lot to play out still.

What i still dont understand is how Hawthorn can trade Buddy for the no1 pick. How is that possible if he is a free agent?

[bulldogtragic]

From a lot of reports this years draft is quite the opposite. Top 10 really good but the rest of the pool is quite shallow. Obviously a lot to play out still.

What i still dont understand is how Hawthorn can trade Buddy for the no1 pick. How is that possible if he is a free agent?
My understanding is that FA doesn't prohibit trading, it just facilitates the move no matter what. Hawks and Buddy can request GWS trade, but that's penalising his new team, and if Buddy blinks and reneges, then there's no trade. Trading involves Buddy demanding one. So he can ask for a trade, I'm not sure why he would (guilt aside).

[LongWait]

From a lot of reports this years draft is quite the opposite. Top 10 really good but the rest of the pool is quite shallow. Obviously a lot to play out still.

What i still don't understand is how Hawthorn can trade Buddy for the no1 pick. How is that possible if he is a free agent?

Buddy is only a free agent if he declares himself so.

Monfries was eligible to be a restricted free agent last year (same as Buddy this year) but went to Port as a traded player, rather than as a restricted free agent.

Because Essendon was going to pick up Goddard as a free agent, they would have received no compensation if Monfries left under free agency to Port. So Essendon said they'd match Ports' offer unless Port and Essendon could reach agreement on a trade.

Now Hawthorn may not chose to match the GWS offer, but Buddy can still refuse to declare himself a restricted free agent and insist to GWS that he'll only go to them if traded.

I would love to see what happens if he goes down that route and GWS calls his bluff.

[Twodogs]

If you could go back in time.
With the knowledge you have now.
Would you take Buddy over Griffen in that draft?

Are we, in a way, getting the chance to do that now?


I wonder what we would have done if Buddy had slipped to the pick we took Tom Williams with? I know it would never have happened but how many.picks separated them?

[bornadog]

I wonder what we would have done if Buddy had slipped to the pick we took Tom Williams with? I know it would never have happened but how many.picks separated them?

One. Buddy 5, Tommy 6


Priority- Richmond -Brett Deledio -Richmond -187
2 Priority -Hawthorn- Jarryd Roughead -Hawthorn -174
3 Priority- Western Bulldogs- Ryan Griffen- Western Bulldogs -176
4 Richmond- Richard Tambling- Adelaide -120
5 Hawthorn- Lance Franklin- Hawthorn- 175
6 Western Bulldogs -Tom Williams- Western Bulldogs- 78

[LostDoggy]

If I was GWS I would see that as overs. I could quite happily offer up pick 3, and 2 of Addison/Wood and Grant if he keeps performing & if GWS wanted 2 of them. In return I would want Jaksch (pick 12 last year tall forward), pick 10 (outside mid or another promising tall in McCarthy) and pick 20 (say Acres to solve some of our half-back issue). Still leaves us with pick 22 as well so you might get a Hartung type to add speed to our midfield. That would save our rebuild 2 years potentially. Only issue is you miss the chance for Sharenberg/Aish early but I'm not convinced either are that much better than picks likely to be in the 8-15 range longer term. I think there is a good spread of talent to about mid 20's and its less focused in the top 10 than last year. Certainly there is a wider spread of option who goes when right through the 1st round.

GWS would probably go for the 1 premium pick and a couple of reasonably solid B graders who have the right age character to help until their A grade kids harden into those roles. We need to give Dalrymple more top end picks to find "good young kids who fit the mold" and 4 picks in or near round 1 gives him a great range to work with rather than 1 potential top ender and an early 2nd rounder.

Like that thinking. Yep it is overs because it's just our side i'm talking about. Without looking at other teams options, there'd surely be much better options for GWS for that scenario.

I think the draft will extend down to mid 20's, maybe even down to 30 with solid KP player options and unfashionable but solid midfielder options. Just go through names from VC, VM, SA, WA and Tas in particular. They're exciting players almost all the way down to the end of the second.

Tom Boyd
Josh Kelly
Domenic Sheed
James Aish
Matt Scharenberg
Jack Billings
Luke McDonald*
Luke Dunstan
Dayle Garlett
Ben Lennon
Matt Crouch
Lewis Taylor
Blake Acres
Luke Reynolds
James Battersby
Billy Hartung
George Hewitt
Mitchell Harvey
Christian Salem
Kade Kolodjashnij
Eli Templeton
Toby Nankervis
Darcy Hourigan
Clayton McCartney
Michael Apeness
Cameron McCarthy
Marcus Bontempelli
Jay Kennedy-Harris
Campbell Combe
Mitchell Honeychurch
James Tsitas
Darcy Gardiner
Jonathon Marsh

There's about 30 names there and there's probably 5-10 that are missing that clubs definitely have in their sights.


We need another draft to be nailed like the 2012 draft was to bring forward our development so that when we're hopefully pushing in 3 years times there's a sustained level and a group like the 99 batch.

I know it's easy in theory and practically it's much harder, but the list has to be refreshed for two reasons:
- Those that are mid 22-25'ish and are not at the level wont help us moving forward
- We will now have control over our VFL team from the next draft.

Get a late second rounder for DFA - great. Likewise Wood - Great.

Use a late DP on a tall project defender. I;d rathet them runnign around than Austin or Markovic.

Looking forward to the trade period :)

[LostDoggy]

From a lot of reports this years draft is quite the opposite. Top 10 really good but the rest of the pool is quite shallow. Obviously a lot to play out

Yeah - there are a lot of diverse opinions this year but I sit firmly in the camp that views the pool as an obvious top 3 and then about 20 odd who could go in a wide variety of different orders. If we get pick 4 rather than 3 I would personally love to trade it as outlined above for a couple of pick 10-15 picks and top it up with pick 20. We need an A grade tall forward, a quick mid and a back rather than 1 champion A+ player in my opinion although I'd happily have both.

I'd be quite happy to keep 3 and take Scharenberg though if GWS weren't prepared to deal.

[Remi Moses]

Yeah - there are a lot of diverse opinions this year but I sit firmly in the camp that views the pool as an obvious top 3 and then about 20 odd who could go in a wide variety of different orders. If we get pick 4 rather than 3 I would personally love to trade it as outlined above for a couple of pick 10-15 picks and top it up with pick 20. We need an A grade tall forward, a quick mid and a back rather than 1 champion A+ player in my opinion although I'd happily have both.

I'd be quite happy to keep 3 and take Scharenberg though if GWS weren't prepared to deal.

That's what I read as well. I just hope we don't trade anything lower than our third round picks.

[Hotdog60]

St.Kilda are going to be playing more kids till the end of the season so they will be soft tanking and may well finish below us.
If we go one better than GC we would end up with pick 5.

[Dry Rot]

Sorry, but talk of Wood, Addison, Grant or even Williams and Higgins in a big play for pick one is silly. They are all rubbish trades for high draft picks.

We only have three players worth talking about in this scenario, and none are from the back line or forward line.

If you don't want want trade one of Griff, Minson or Libba (and I'm not saying you should) then forget about going after pick one and Boyd.

[Remi Moses]

Yep, those players won't get the job done.
I tend to think this is all Bluff from Sheedy, as I think they're fishing knowing they're not going to get a bite.
Sheedy for one isn't going to be there at seasons end.

[The Doctor]

My view is if we finish with pick 2 or 3 then don't trade because we will still end up with a terrific young player, ie Boyd, Aish, Scharenberg. Any of these would be welcome additions to our team.

If our pick is 4 or lower down the order then I would contemplate a trade. I would consider a deal such as our 1st pick + Cooney for Pick 1. I would love to see Coons play out his career with us but if he had any thoughts of leaving for one last good pay packet then this might be the opportunity.

I know how Sydney folk think. They could sell the fact they got a Brownlow medallist and former number 1 pick for a slight downgrade in the draft (the westies in Sydney have little idea how the draft works but most know about the Brownlow and a 1st pick must be good) and they could easily say they got the player they wanted with pick 4/5 that they would have chosen with pick 1.

For us we would have to weigh up what is worth more, the draft upgrade or the possible compensatory pick (20ish?) for leaving as a restricted free agent. You could mount a reasonable argument for either. Mind you I think we have reasonable claims to expect the same sort of compensation St Kilda got for Goddard but thats another story!

[Twodogs]

Sorry, but talk of Wood, Addison, Grant or even Williams and Higgins in a big play for pick one is silly. They are all rubbish trades for high draft picks.

We only have three players worth talking about in this scenario, and none are from the back line or forward line.

If you don't want want trade one of Griff, Minson or Libba (and I'm not saying you should) then forget about going after pick one and Boyd.


Agree. Other clubs will trump us if that's what we offer. I'd rather we held onto our early picks and let Dalrypmle have a go.

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-should-keep-no1-draft-pick-says-kevin-sheedy-20130719-2q8rz.html




Kevin Sheedy says he would be reluctant to give up the No.1 draft pick for fear of losing a potential future champion.

Sheedy, who will step down as the Greater Western Sydney coach at the end of the season, would prefer to see the club retain the prized selection, which is likely to be used to snare boom young forward Tom Boyd.

The master coach was a major winner from Fremantle's blunder in 1994, before they entered the league, to take Todd Ridley, Tony Delaney, Dale Kickett and Russell Williams from Essendon in return for access to the best 16-year-old in the country and pick four in that year's draft.

Kickett carved out a decent career at the Dockers while the other three managed only 52 games between them.
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The Bombers used those picks to acquire Matthew Lloyd and Scott Lucas, who kicked 1397 games between them and played in Essendon's 2000 premiership team.

"Would you trade [Chris] Judd, Matthew Lloyd? My job at Essendon was to try and get a Lloyd or a Lucas with the first couple of picks. They stood the test of time, Lloyd kicked 900 goals," Sheedy said on Friday.

"If I look down in judgment over the next few years and I'm sitting there like a former coach at Fremantle thinking I cleared a 900-goal goalkicker, I don't think I'd like to have that on my head necessarily."

Boyd, a towering teenager with the potential to be a long-term key forward at AFL level, is tipped by many to be the first picked in this year's draft.

"They are rare [gun forwards]," Sheedy said.

"Essendon picked up a Joe Daniher through father-son at about a pick 10, that was a pretty good gift."

"These are gifts the system throws out.

"Personally I don't like trading No.1 draft picks."

[bulldogsthru&thru]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-should-keep-no1-draft-pick-says-kevin-sheedy-20130719-2q8rz.html




Kevin Sheedy says he would be reluctant to give up the No.1 draft pick for fear of losing a potential future champion.

Sheedy, who will step down as the Greater Western Sydney coach at the end of the season, would prefer to see the club retain the prized selection, which is likely to be used to snare boom young forward Tom Boyd.

The master coach was a major winner from Fremantle's blunder in 1994, before they entered the league, to take Todd Ridley, Tony Delaney, Dale Kickett and Russell Williams from Essendon in return for access to the best 16-year-old in the country and pick four in that year's draft.

Kickett carved out a decent career at the Dockers while the other three managed only 52 games between them.
Advertisement

The Bombers used those picks to acquire Matthew Lloyd and Scott Lucas, who kicked 1397 games between them and played in Essendon's 2000 premiership team.

"Would you trade [Chris] Judd, Matthew Lloyd? My job at Essendon was to try and get a Lloyd or a Lucas with the first couple of picks. They stood the test of time, Lloyd kicked 900 goals," Sheedy said on Friday.

"If I look down in judgment over the next few years and I'm sitting there like a former coach at Fremantle thinking I cleared a 900-goal goalkicker, I don't think I'd like to have that on my head necessarily."

Boyd, a towering teenager with the potential to be a long-term key forward at AFL level, is tipped by many to be the first picked in this year's draft.

"They are rare [gun forwards]," Sheedy said.

"Essendon picked up a Joe Daniher through father-son at about a pick 10, that was a pretty good gift."

"These are gifts the system throws out.

"Personally I don't like trading No.1 draft picks."

More evidence that the "top pick is on the table" was just to test the waters. I doubt they will give it up as no team will give up what they would want for it. Who they take though remains to be seen, which is why i am really rooting for the Saints to win another 2 games

[BornInDroopSt'54]

More evidence that the "top pick is on the table" was just to test the waters. I doubt they will give it up as no team will give up what they would want for it. Who they take though remains to be seen, which is why i am really rooting for the Saints to win another 2 games

Any excuse. I hope the Saints and Melbourne have a couple of wins left in them but only this year. Melbourne has a wealth of riches in their forwards: Jesse Hogan, Jeremy Howe, Mitch Clark and that blond guy constitute the potentially most powerfull forward group in history. If they get Tom Boyd well nobody will feel sorry for them anymore.

[The Underdog]

Ahhh, Sheedy. Is there anything he can't do (or something awesome that happened once that he wasn't responsible for)? It's almost like he was a one man football department for 30 years.
It's a shame he's backtracking too, I'm finally ready to trade him Scott West for pick one.;)

[bulldogtragic]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-should-keep-no1-draft-pick-says-kevin-sheedy-20130719-2q8rz.html




Kevin Sheedy says he would be reluctant to give up the No.1 draft pick for fear of losing a potential future champion.

Sheedy, who will step down as the Greater Western Sydney coach at the end of the season, would prefer to see the club retain the prized selection, which is likely to be used to snare boom young forward Tom Boyd.

The master coach was a major winner from Fremantle's blunder in 1994, before they entered the league, to take Todd Ridley, Tony Delaney, Dale Kickett and Russell Williams from Essendon in return for access to the best 16-year-old in the country and pick four in that year's draft.

Kickett carved out a decent career at the Dockers while the other three managed only 52 games between them.
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The Bombers used those picks to acquire Matthew Lloyd and Scott Lucas, who kicked 1397 games between them and played in Essendon's 2000 premiership team.

"Would you trade [Chris] Judd, Matthew Lloyd? My job at Essendon was to try and get a Lloyd or a Lucas with the first couple of picks. They stood the test of time, Lloyd kicked 900 goals," Sheedy said on Friday.

"If I look down in judgment over the next few years and I'm sitting there like a former coach at Fremantle thinking I cleared a 900-goal goalkicker, I don't think I'd like to have that on my head necessarily."

Boyd, a towering teenager with the potential to be a long-term key forward at AFL level, is tipped by many to be the first picked in this year's draft.

"They are rare [gun forwards]," Sheedy said.

"Essendon picked up a Joe Daniher through father-son at about a pick 10, that was a pretty good gift."

"These are gifts the system throws out.

"Personally I don't like trading No.1 draft picks."
And the dance continues.

[LostDoggy]

So perhaps GWS are thinking, “OK, we don't want Boyd with pick 1, but everybody else does. So we trade pick 1 to, say, the Bulldogs for their pick 4 plus one of their best established players then pick the guy we wanted to take anyway, except we've gained an extra player for nothing.”

You have the president declare pick 1 up for grabs, take a look at the offers that start being floated by the media (in other words, the players' managers and clubs), then just when you've got everybody talking about “What are we going to give up to get this kid?” you have the coach come out and say, “Nah, you know what? We'll keep pick 1 thanks.” So suddenly, opposition clubs are in a mindset where they really want what you've got, and you've claimed the upper hand by declaring you don't want to trade now. So you can demand an even higher price for a kid who in all probability you don't even want. Worse case scenario, you pick him and then trade him later, or trade Patton who has injury issues.

Conspiracy theory perhaps, but their whole recruiting strategy has been a long term, multi-year campaign, much more so than Gold Coast which had its eyes closer than the horizon.

[bornadog]

Giants should keep No.1 draft pick says Kevin Sheedy (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-should-keep-no1-draft-pick-says-kevin-sheedy-20130719-2q8rz.html)


I agree with Macca on the number one draft pick, Giants are playing games.

[mjp]

Melbourne has a wealth of riches in their forwards: Jesse Hogan, Jeremy Howe, Mitch Clark and that blond guy constitute the potentially most powerfull forward group in history.

LOL. I can only assume you are taking the mickey!

[mjp]

Giants should keep No.1 draft pick says Kevin Sheedy (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/giants-should-keep-no1-draft-pick-says-kevin-sheedy-20130719-2q8rz.html)


I agree with Macca on the number one draft pick, Giants are playing games.

If I was at GWS I would be using the number 1 pick to get the player - players! - who I need.

Who/what do they need?
- Key defender with experience.
- Strong midfielder.
- Half back with some grunt who can kick.

What would I try to get?

Well, it is only going to come from a good side, but I would try to extract a package of Michael Barlow, Michael Johnson and Garrick Ibbotson + their first pick from Fremantle - they need a key forward with Pav coming to the end.

Something like that would be a good deal for both clubs assuming:

- Patton comes back from injury.
- GWS get 5 years from each of the 3-players I have mentioned.
- GWS get 100 games from the first round pick swap.

I look at the GWS squad and cannot see how they can continue to roll out such an inexperienced group...adding more kids to such a young side will surely become counter productive. Pick a club that 'needs' Boyd, target their players.

[Remi Moses]

I can hear the sound of a truck reversing
Was all lip service

[BornInDroopSt'54]

LOL. I can only assume you are taking the mickey!

No I am serious. Give Macca and perhaps a tactical assistant that group and see how we'd go.
Did you see Jesse Hogan kick those six goals in the VFL and the way he did it with physical prowess and still too young to play seniors!? The blond guy, I had a mental block with his name, had to Google it, Jack Watts, I think will become an excellent player. Mitch Clark is a star and Jeremy Howe, what a mark and combined with the others makes for a really potent forward line. If they got Tom Boyd it would be a ridiculous excess of forward talent when we would be ecstatic with one of those players!

[BulldogBelle]

I'm not convinced Mitch Clark is a quite a star, even when he is actually capable of playing. I don't think we would be truly ecstatic with any of those players bar Hogan.

[Remi Moses]

Melbourne need elite mids.
Sheedy's got more bait on his line, and just don't think they'll get what they're asking for.

[G-Mo77]

If you don't want want trade one of Griff, Minson or Libba (and I'm not saying you should) then forget about going after pick one and Boyd.

Which is why I think we're not in running. Macca hinted about it at one of his pressers about giving up too much and it sounded like it is something we wouldn't do. I'd love to have Boyd but we'll get a high pick and get a very good player with it. I'd rather just do it the ol' fashioned way.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'm not convinced Mitch Clark is a quite a star, even when he is actually capable of playing. I don't think we would be truly ecstatic with any of those players bar Hogan.

One of us may be proven right.

[LostDoggy]

WB: Pick 1, Pick 10, Jonathon Giles and one of Kristian Jaksch/Adam Tomlinson
GWS: Pick 3(4), Will Minson and Dylan Addison

We get Tom Boyd, solid replacement ruckman, young medium-tall player and a top 10 DP, likely the type of player we need anyway which is most areas

They get a top 2 ruckman, a solid utility and can on-trade pick 3 for another key player they need.

Workable in theory?

[anfo27]

WB: Pick 1, Pick 10, Jonathon Giles and one of Kristian Jaksch/Adam Tomlinson
GWS: Pick 3(4), Will Minson and Dylan Addison

We get Tom Boyd, solid replacement ruckman, young medium-tall player and a top 10 DP, likely the type of player we need anyway which is most areas

They get a top 2 ruckman, a solid utility and can on-trade pick 3 for another key player they need.

Workable in theory?

Why would GWS do that? We are clearly bending them over in that deal.

[LostDoggy]

So they get a champion ruckman, another experienced utility, lose an excess player and on-trade for another teams experienced player of requirement - and that's bending them over ?

They get Buddy and they'll have KP forwards coming out of their arse.

[anfo27]

So they get a champion ruckman, another experienced utility, lose an excess player and on-trade for another teams experienced player of requirement - and that's bending them over ?

They get Buddy and they'll have KP forwards coming out of their arse.

Wiil is having a very good year but he is nowhere near champion status. Addison lets be honest, if he was at any other team would we want him? He wouldn't be worth a 3rd round pick.

If they get Buddy they will have an excess of KPF but they sure as hell won't be giving them away.

Your proposed deal is heavily favoured in our direction.

[GVGjr]

WB: Pick 1, Pick 10, Jonathon Giles and one of Kristian Jaksch/Adam Tomlinson
GWS: Pick 3(4), Will Minson and Dylan Addison

We get Tom Boyd, solid replacement ruckman, young medium-tall player and a top 10 DP, likely the type of player we need anyway which is most areas

They get a top 2 ruckman, a solid utility and can on-trade pick 3 for another key player they need.

Workable in theory?

Terrible deal for GWS. They lose picks 1 and 10 plus a player they drafted at pick 12 last year.
Addison isn't what they want.

[Remi Moses]

Wiil is having a very good year but he is nowhere near champion status. Addison lets be honest, if he was at any other team would we want him? He wouldn't be worth a 3rd round pick.

If they get Buddy they will have an excess of KPF but they sure as hell won't be giving them away.

Your proposed deal is heavily favoured in our direction.

Anfo, we need Billy Beane to broker a deal:)

[anfo27]

Anfo, we need Billy Beane to broker a deal:)

Billy would have to change his name. We could hire Fantasia back, then get a makeup artist to make Billy look like Fantasia. We would have 17 clubs jumping over each other to trade with us thinking Billy is Fantasia. Get some amazing trades done before teams wake up & realise that something doesn't seem right.

If only!

[LostDoggy]

Amazes me that people see draft picks for GWS the same way they see them for every other team.

This is a team that needs quality and experience. Boyd aside, the rest of their DPs for probably the next three years will need to be used on trading in players - not drafting kids. The AFL, GWS and that market won't wait five years for all the babies to mature.

Other teams want the high DPs, they want the experienced players. The high draft picks are simply the mechanisms.

[Topdog]

Your trade is essentially Addison for Giles and pick 12 from last year.
Minno and pick 3 for pick 1 and 10.
Im certain they will get better

[bulldogtragic]

If they can beat Pick 3, Minno & any fringe player they want for picks 1 & 19, then so be it. It's not meant to be.

[anfo27]

Amazes me that people see draft picks for GWS the same way they see them for every other team.

This is a team that needs quality and experience. Boyd aside, the rest of their DPs for probably the next three years will need to be used on trading in players - not drafting kids. The AFL, GWS and that market won't wait five years for all the babies to mature.

Other teams want the high DPs, they want the experienced players. The high draft picks are simply the mechanisms.

Why because i think your deal is ridiculously favoured our way?

It amazes me that some posters seem to think that any team would want to part with anything to get Addison to their club. He's an honest trier but gee you can get these types for nothing.

Yeah i agree they need experience & whole lot of it but there are better ways for them to that than what you have suggested.

[Remi Moses]

Billy would have to change his name. We could hire Fantasia back, then get a makeup artist to make Billy look like Fantasia. We would have 17 clubs jumping over each other to trade with us thinking Billy is Fantasia. Get some amazing trades done before teams wake up & realise that something doesn't seem right.

If only!

Speaking of Fantasia. Word is he won't be back with Hawthorn.

[Dry Rot]

Amazes me that people see draft picks for GWS the same way they see them for every other team.

This is a team that needs quality and experience. Boyd aside, the rest of their DPs for probably the next three years will need to be used on trading in players - not drafting kids. The AFL, GWS and that market won't wait five years for all the babies to mature.

Other teams want the high DPs, they want the experienced players. The high draft picks are simply the mechanisms.

Agreed, but they will want/be able to get much better than our eckers like Addison or Wood.

Our only tradeable players for value are Griff, Will and Libba.

[bornadog]

Speaking of Fantasia. Word is he won't be back with Hawthorn.

They have found him out within months. It took us what 5 years:eek:

[Ghost Dog]

They have found him out within months. It took us what 5 years:eek:

LOL nice one BAD

[GVGjr]

They have found him out within months. It took us what 5 years:eek:

I think he is ill.

[wimberga]

I keep tossing up between what to do about Tom Boyd.

On the one hand, it has been so long since we had a quality key forward for a decent period of time. We are bottoming out at a time when there is one just 2-4 picks before ours, is extremely highly rate and ultra dominant. It may be the only chance we have to draft such a player for the next 10 years (assuming all goes to plan), with me feeling like the only way we might be able to attain such a player is through the draft (as opposed to trading for a quality tall in later years). That is, trading into a position to get him now will give us the best possible chance to keep him for the long haul. Of course the cost would be great now, but if all goes to plan, we enjoy having a quality tall forward for the next 10-14 years. So sometimes I hear myself thinking "everyone is on the table bar Griffen".

But of course, a lot can go wrong, particularly when you are paying so much for just 1 player.

On the flip-side, with pick 3-5, we are going to be able to secure another super talent into the club and as stated above, our best chance to retain quality players for their career is going to be getting them via the draft. Foot skills, footy smarts and ability to influence games (particularly big ones) are all qualities touted of players likely to be available at our picks which is a large cost for trading into pick 1. We can then look to secure quality KPP's via later draft picks, as not all of the good quality forwards in the AFL were picked with pick 1.

Some days I think it would just be a huge shame that we drop down the ladder at a time when a gun key forward is available, but we don't fall quite hard enough to secure him and are not prepared to trade hard enough for him. Other days, I think that whoever we get early is going to be quality and if that is factored in to what it would cost for Boyd, it just doesn't make any sense.

[LostDoggy]

What a long post Wimberga, and you actually didn't go anywhere :)

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

They have found him out within months. It took us what 5 years:eek:

This is an unfortunate comment given his serious health condition.

[Remi Moses]

This is an unfortunate comment given his serious health condition.

Heard someone on AW say we would have Chafuer driven him out the joint.
Pretty unfortunate comment if he's seriously ill.

[bornadog]

I think he is ill.


This is an unfortunate comment given his serious health condition.

I wasn't talking about his health and wish him all the best and a speedy recovery. Must be pretty ill if he has to give up his job and I don't wish that upon any one.

[wimberga]

What a long post Wimberga, and you actually didn't go anywhere :)

Ahh well that's kind of the point.

Just seeing if anyone else shared my pain haha

[LostDoggy]

I think he is ill.

When did this become known?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ahh well that's kind of the point.

Just seeing if anyone else shared my pain haha

I sure do. Will be even more painful if he falls to pick 3 and goes to the saints. They immediately replace riewoldt and we were one pick away

[bulldogtragic]

When did this become known?
I found out via Garry Lyon on that Monday night gab fest he hosts.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I sure do. Will be even more painful if he falls to pick 3 and goes to the saints. They immediately replace riewoldt and we were one pick away

This is my main concern.

If GWS/Melbourne pick him, fair enough. I'll be absolutely pissed if he falls to St. Kilda and they replace Riewoldt, after being 'down' for effectively one year, while we have (and will continue) to struggle.

[LostDoggy]

Would be annoying. They replace KPFs Kosi/Roo with Tom Boyd, Tom Lee and Spencer White. We replace nobody with Fletcher Roberts? Jack Redpath ? Ayce Cordy? Jordan Roughead? Tom Campbell? Yet U drafted KP in this draft?....to help Jones

[comrade]

Would be annoying. They replace KPFs Kosi/Roo with Tom Boyd, Tom Lee and Spencer White. We replace nobody with Fletcher Roberts? Jack Redpath ? Ayce Cordy? Jordan Roughead? Tom Campbell? Yet U drafted KP in this draft?....to help Jones

Key forwards don't win you premierships. A balanced line up anchored by an elite midfield does.

Our young mids are miles ahead.

[Remi Moses]

I share the pain . I don't think GWS will pass up a player who is considered in some quarters as a once in a generation player. If they are on the level about trading pick 1 can't see us or the saints having the player or players they want.

[Remi Moses]

Key forwards don't win you premierships. A balanced line up anchored by an elite midfield does.

Our young mids are miles ahead.

They've got bigger holes to fill than key forward .
Key backs for a start, and throw in an ageing midfield .
I actually think they're in worse shape than us and Melbourne.

[bulldogtragic]

I share the pain . I don't think GWS will pass up a player who is considered in some quarters as a once in a generation player. If they are on the level about trading pick 1 can't see us or the saints having the player or players they want.
If MJP is close to his guess of Johnson, Ibbotson/Barlow and pick 13, then I'm not sure we could compete. GWS get a KPB, good mid and first rounder - giving them picks 10, 13 and 19 (which is their mandatory 3 selections).

We would need to give up Minson, Wallis and Scharenberg. Based on what BMac has said, this might be 'overs'.

[Dry Rot]

IMO this is not about GWS holding all the aces, rather they didn't go according to the AFL plan last year trading for established players and now they are facing big trouble in the Sydney market next year if they are not competitive.

[The Underdog]

IMO this is not about GWS holding all the aces, rather they didn't go according to the AFL plan last year trading for established players and now they are facing big trouble in the Sydney market next year if they are not competitive.

I think our issue is us holding very few cards. If the need a name for that pick we certainly don't have one to give them.

[Mofra]

Agreed, but they will want/be able to get much better than our eckers like Addison or Wood.
Didn't they ask about Wood in past trading periods?

He's in their age profile - as an example if Wood and pick 4 got us Jacksh and pick 10 or 19 would we consider it?
We're sacrificing a future star (presumably) at pick 4 for a KP player with 1 year of development in him and a probable decent player.

[Dry Rot]

I think our issue is us holding very few cards. If the need a name for that pick we certainly don't have one to give them.

If Bellchambers re-signs with the Dons, then our Minson card is a lot more valuable.

I'd only do this if Will wanted to go, but I'd consider Minson for pick 10 or if they get really desperate pick 10 + Jaksch for Will and some Picken and/or Wood and/or Addison steak knives.

[Remi Moses]

You'd be staggered if the Balco Bombres let Bellchambers go.
Hille's done and Gumby can't get a gig, can't see it happening

[anfo27]

You'd be staggered if the Balco Bombres let Bellchambers go.
Hille's done and Gumby can't get a gig, can't see it happening

They did play young Joey for a few games as that part time ruckman/forward spot. I don't think they can play Joey in the forward 50 full time & Belly as the resting ruckman as well. He could re-sign at stay a bomber just like Jetta & Gumby did & suffer the same fate or do whats best for himself.

If you were his manager Remi what advice would you be giving him?

Also if players are suspended for AOD I can't see why he would want to stay when the club have clearly let the playing group down.

[Remi Moses]

They did play young Joey for a few games as that part time ruckman/forward spot. I don't think they can play Joey in the forward 50 full time & Belly as the resting ruckman as well. He could re-sign at stay a bomber just like Jetta & Gumby did & suffer the same fate or do whats best for himself.

If you were his manager Remi what advice would you be giving him?

Also if players are suspended for AOD I can't see why he would want to stay when the club have clearly let the playing group down.

I'd be inclined to take the money at GWS.
Interesting times ahead

[Remi Moses]

If Bellchambers re-signs with the Dons, then our Minson card is a lot more valuable.

I'd only do this if Will wanted to go, but I'd consider Minson for pick 10 or if they get really desperate pick 10 + Jaksch for Will and some Picken and/or Wood and/or Addison steak knives.

It's what's in the best interest for our club that's important .
If will keeps rucking 95% of games he's got a shelf life of two years .
I know the player's got to agree to a trade.

[JohnGentStand]

It's what's in the best interest for our club that's important .
If will keeps rucking 95% of games he's got a shelf life of two years .
I know the player's got to agree to a trade.

Rubbish. saying it doesnt make it true.

[1eyedog]

It's what's in the best interest for our club that's important .
If will keeps rucking 95% of games he's got a shelf life of two years .
I know the player's got to agree to a trade.

Given he played second fiddle to Huddo for so long I'd say his body is in pretty good nick.

[LostDoggy]

Going over the fixture, it's a forlorn hope to get Boyd to fall to us in the draft.

Can see both us and the Saints winning at least one more game, and we're a game ahead. We have a lower percentage by about 7 points though, so if they snag one more and we don't there's an outside chance of falling to third last.

Boyd would still have to not be taken/pick traded by GWS and assume that Melb don't need another KP forward.

[bulldogtragic]

Going over the fixture, it's a forlorn hope to get Boyd to fall to us in the draft.

Can see both us and the Saints winning at least one more game, and we're a game ahead. We have a lower percentage by about 7 points though, so if they snag two more and we don't there's an outside chance of falling to third last.

Boyd would still have to not be taken/pick traded by GWS and assume that Melb don't need another KP forward.
I think it would be MASSIVE for us to land young Tom, but our chances would be less than 5% I would have thought.

[LostDoggy]

I think it would be MASSIVE for us to land young Tom, but our chances would be less than 5% I would have thought.

Actually i think i've decided what the match committe should do ;)

Play the kids, honourable loses, Saints win one more, we don't, we slip to third last, they go to fourth last, we get pick three and a priority pick for our troubles, and Boyd Jnr slips to pick three because GWS don't take him or trade and Melb go midfiled with their pick.

Simple. Utopia prevails :D

[Remi Moses]

Rubbish. saying it doesnt make it true.

Sorry, for having an opinion . Minson looks tired, so what's the issue of giving him a break?

He's carrying a heavy load

[Hotdog60]

Actually i think i've decided what the match committe should do ;)

Play the kids, honourable loses, Saints win one more, we don't, we slip to third last, they go to fourth last, we get pick three and a priority pick for our troubles, and Boyd Jnr slips to pick three because GWS don't take him or trade and Melb go midfiled with their pick.

Simple. Utopia prevails :D

Too late St.Kilda has already announced that they will be soft tanking by playing more kids and the diver said today that there will be a big turnover of players at years end.

It will be because their opponent walked off at half time if they win a game. The AFL has said it's ok to tank look at Melbourne.

[Remi Moses]

Given he played second fiddle to Huddo for so long I'd say his body is in pretty good nick.

He was a bit younger then though. If he continually rucks all game every game, just my opinion
he won't last more than 2 to 3 years .

[Dancin' Douggy]

I still think it's worth trying to engineer somehow.

I would kill to have a big strong 200+ game power forward SUPERSTAR at the dogs.
Good for membership. good for morale, great for getting kids barracking for the dogs, great for publicity. Great for soundbites, great for sponsorship and merchandise etc etc.
And great in big matches.

Think what buddy's worth OFF field to the Hawks.


There are plenty of great players in every draft, but these power forwards are worth their weight in gold.

Almost worth 'selling the farm' for.

The fact that he's even attainable to us is a blessing we shouldn't treat too off handedly.

So, short term pain for long term gain is the scenario.

Cooney looks to be in good nick. 33 disposals on the weekend are a really good sign.
If he plays out the year in that type of form he could be packaged in to a deal.

Typical Bulldog luck though, he's a free agent unless we sign him up and then trade him. A hard one.

Sheedy was sniffing around Easton Wood at one point, and Will Minson is probably the All Australian ruckman at this point.

We will also have pick 3/4.

Griffen is clearly our best player and probably next Captain the way he's playing. He seems to be off the table.

So Minson, Wood and pick 3/4 for pick 1? Any takers?

Yes we'll get smashed in the ruck for a year or so but so what? we're in the early stages of a re build.
By the time we're challenging we will have found a ruckman from somewhere. Campbells big enough to match it physically at league level, and may turn out to be a good replacement anyway.
We'll have salary cap room to trade a ruckman in from somewhere.

Other names that SHOULD be appealing would be Higgins and Williams, but injuries have pretty much taken any trade value off them. But you never know, they are both the 'type' of player GWS need.

Something to think about anyways............

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Going over the fixture, it's a forlorn hope to get Boyd to fall to us in the draft.

Can see both us and the Saints winning at least one more game, and we're a game ahead. We have a lower percentage by about 7 points though, so if they snag one more and we don't there's an outside chance of falling to third last.

Boyd would still have to not be taken/pick traded by GWS and assume that Melb don't need another KP forward.

If the pick isnt traded i cant see GWS not picking Boyd. Surely they cant pass on him. They would be better of accepting the best available trade to at least get something for him rather than letting him slip

[bulldogtragic]

I still think it's worth trying to engineer somehow.

I would kill to have a big strong 200+ game power forward SUPERSTAR at the dogs.
Good for membership. good for morale, great for getting kids barracking for the dogs, great for publicity. Great for soundbites, great for sponsorship and merchandise etc etc.
And great in big matches.

Think what buddy's worth OFF field to the Hawks.


There are plenty of great players in every draft, but these power forwards are worth their weight in gold.

Almost worth 'selling the farm' for.

The fact that he's even attainable to us is a blessing we shouldn't treat too off handedly.

So, short term pain for long term gain is the scenario.

Cooney looks to be in good nick. 33 disposals on the weekend are a really good sign.
If he plays out the year in that type of form he could be packaged in to a deal.

Typical Bulldog luck though, he's a free agent unless we sign him up and then trade him. A hard one.

Sheedy was sniffing around Easton Wood at one point, and Will Minson is probably the All Australian ruckman at this point.

We will also have pick 3/4.

Griffen is clearly our best player and probably next Captain the way he's playing. He seems to be off the table.

So Minson, Wood and pick 3/4 for pick 1? Any takers?

Yes we'll get smashed in the ruck for a year or so but so what? we're in the early stages of a re build.
By the time we're challenging we will have found a ruckman from somewhere. Campbells big enough to match it physically at league level, and may turn out to be a good replacement anyway.
We'll have salary cap room to trade a ruckman in from somewhere.

Other names that SHOULD be appealing would be Higgins and Williams, but injuries have pretty much taken any trade value off them. But you never know, they are both the 'type' of player GWS need.

Something to think about anyways............
I think that's about right. That would be about my limit if I was the club (which I'm not).

AA ruckman, seasoned player (although history of injuries) and Scharenberg.

Still not convinced that would do it. But I'd like us to make a play, and if we fail, well at least we tried.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think that's about right. That would be about my limit if I was the club (which I'm not).

AA ruckman, seasoned player (although history of injuries) and Scharenberg.

Still not convinced that would do it. But I'd like us to make a play, and if we fail, well at least we tried.

Well apparently the club has already had a few discussions with GWS about a trade. Would love to have been a fly on the wall

[bulldogtragic]

Well apparently the club has already had a few discussions with GWS about a trade. Would love to have been a fly on the wall
Absolutely. This is a good opportunity for Garlick to show us his stuff.

Thinking about it more. This offer of Minson, Wood/Williams and pick 3 is better than what I might have thought. I.e. GWS get Buddy to FF and get Patton back to slot into the pocket. They get Minson to 1st ruck, they get a hard body down back. They on trade pick 3 (hypothetically) to WCE for Brown and pick 9 (maybe throw them a young un).

GWS lose Boyd

GWS next year add Buddy, Patton, Minson, Wood/Williams, Brown, picks 9, 10 and 19.

Still don't think it will happen, but Minson, Wood/Williams, Brown and pick 9 for pick 1 is not too bad.

[wimberga]

Absolutely. This is a good opportunity for Garlick to show us his stuff.

Thinking about it more. This offer of Minson, Wood/Williams and pick 3 is better than what I might have thought. I.e. GWS get Buddy to FF and get Patton back to slot into the pocket. They get Minson to 1st ruck, they get a hard body down back. They on trade pick 3 (hypothetically) to WCE for Brown and pick 9 (maybe throw them a young un).

GWS lose Boyd

GWS next year add Buddy, Patton, Minson, Wood/Williams, Brown, picks 9, 10 and 19.

Still don't think it will happen, but Minson, Wood/Williams, Brown and pick 9 for pick 1 is not too bad.

Agree with this. seems like a decent trade that might actually get through and I wouldn't be unhappy.

I would however feel a lot more comfortable knowing that Will and Wood wanted to go rather than being pushed out the door.

[azabob]

I cannot see GWS wanting Easton Wood.

He is extremely injury prone.

My view is stick with the draft pick we are given and go for there.

[azabob]

Absolutely. This is a good opportunity for Garlick to show us his stuff.

.

What has Garlick got to do with it?

[Remi Moses]

Understand your point, but if players don't want to be traded we'd never get any done.
I want Garlick the 2 McCartney's to do what's in the best interests for our club.

[Greystache]

Personally I'd be concerned if the CEO was central to a trade negotiation. What are the football department staff there for?

[bulldogtragic]

What has Garlick got to do with it?
I figure as CEO he is a central figure and opinion maker. When questioned on radio he said the club had enquired about pick one. I assumed from his language that he put the feller out himself, but that's just an assumption. This has the 'potential' to be a 'massive' call in our recent history, I'd like to think Simon would be heavily involved such is the potential stakes.

[bulldogtragic]

Personally I'd be concerned if the CEO was central to a trade negotiation. What are the football department staff there for?
Sure pick 91 for Young etc.

Trading top picks, exiting club champs, dealing with the future and fabric of the club etc, I think the CEO has the right to be involved as much or as little as he wants. It's not a bad thing I wouldn't have thought.

[DOG GOD]

I think GWS are bluffing. If Boyd is as good as what media etc are saying, why would u not what him at your club?

I say they select him with pick 1.

[GVGjr]

I think GWS are bluffing. If Boyd is as good as what media etc are saying, why would u not what him at your club?

I say they select him with pick 1.


I'm now of the opinion that Franklin is staying at the Hawks so there is no way they will let the number one pick go unless some puts a too big of a deal in front of them

[LostDoggy]

I'm now of the opinion that Franklin is staying at the Hawks

What makes you think this? There'll surely never been another deal, as reported, like this again for a player, unless another expansion team comes in.