Operation Get Tom Boyd - Done and dusted

[Remi Moses]

Right, I'll put it out there.
I'm going to get whacked from some posters
They're talking once in a generation forward.
Requires lateral thinking. Big Will and pick 5 for pick 1.
( love will, gotta think laterally)
Please don't post Big Footy 12 year old trades that would never see the light of day.
Thoughts?

[mjp]

Is Boyd actually that good?

I am missing something. Hogan looked a lot better as a 17yo and apparently he wasn't worth pick 5 last year...why is Boyd worth double that this year?

[bulldogtragic]

Right, I'll put it out there.
I'm going to get whacked from some posters
They're talking once in a generation forward.
Requires lateral thinking. Big Will and pick 5 for pick 1.
( love will, gotta think laterally)
Please don't post Big Footy 12 year old trades that would never see the light of day.
Thoughts?
Melbourne will get a priority, most likely pick one. So if Boyd goes one, that's the pick to target.

Would they want Wilbur. Jamar is the first with Dawes and Clarke pinch hitting.

Would they take Cooney? If this is the way to go.

* I'm not saying do this, just partaking in conversation.

[Remi Moses]

Is Boyd actually that good?

I am missing something. Hogan looked a lot better as a 17yo and apparently he wasn't worth pick 5 last year...why is Boyd worth double that this year?

I'm going on what's being said that Boyd's a beauty that's all.
Do we know that the club didn't offer up pick 5 for Hogan?
We were trumped by the Dees having an earlier pick anyway.
I'm just putting up a discussion

[Remi Moses]

Melbourne will get a priority, most likely pick one. So if Boyd goes one, that's the pick to target.

Would they want Wilbur. Jamar is the first with Dawes and Clarke pinch hitting.

Would they take Cooney? If this is the way to go.

* I'm not saying do this, just partaking in conversation.

If they get a priority they won't get pick one.
I'm referring to GWS .

[GVGjr]

Is Boyd actually that good?

I am missing something. Hogan looked a lot better as a 17yo and apparently he wasn't worth pick 5 last year...why is Boyd worth double that this year?

To me he is ahead of Patton. Strong mark, physical and an accurate kick. It will take time and he needs to work hard but I think he is a great prospect. Not sure what we could put together to move up the order but we should consider it.

He was very good today even allowing that VM played the NSW/ACT side.

If we don't get the PP this year though I doubt we have the currency.

[bulldogtragic]

If they get a priority they won't get pick one.
I'm referring to GWS .
In that case they may want Will.

But then we'd have another underdeveloped forward with no ruck to speak of. I would need to be convinced of our plan to get a ruckman of som quality to cover the ruck.

[bornadog]

Right, I'll put it out there.
I'm going to get whacked from some posters
They're talking once in a generation forward.
Requires lateral thinking. Big Will and pick 5 for pick 1.
( love will, gotta think laterally)
Please don't post Big Footy 12 year old trades that would never see the light of day.
Thoughts?

Sorry, not willing to give up Will.

[chef]

Rather hold onto everything and get Gumby in the PSD.

[Remi Moses]

Sorry, not willing to give up Will.

Just hope in two to three years time where not on here talking about Boyd and Will's 30 and coming to the end.
It's left field, butback in 01 it was radical when Hawthorn traded Croad.
Remember the protest?

[bulldogtragic]

Just hope in two to three years time where not on here talking about Boyd and Will's 30 and coming to the end.
It's left field, butback in 01 it was radical when Hawthorn traded Croad.
Remember the protest?
Take your point, Hodge was worth it.

But it was also pretty radical to trade for a soon to be delisted player in order for a club to not resign a star and leave them no option in the PSD. :)

Is Boyd more Hodge or Rawlings? Luck of the draw.

[anfo27]

I still think GWS won't take Boyd at 1 especially when Franklin seems certain to be going there. Melbourne won't take him because they already have Clark, Dawes & Hogan. So I have Boyd slipping to pick 3 & us likely to be finishing there.
If Boyd goes 1 or 2 then so be it. I'd be devastated like i was when GC got Jack Martin but forgot about Martin once we picked up Stringer. We'll get a ripper at our pick anyway.
Would only consider trading Will if we got an extra 1st round pick, not worth trading him for an upgrade of a few spots in the form he has been in. I can't see that happening anyway.

[Remi Moses]

Just a thought anyway. Would like to see some permutation adopted to get him.
Maybe GWS could throw in that compo pick. Won't happen,but anyway.

[Remi Moses]

Take your point, Hodge was worth it.

But it was also pretty radical to trade for a soon to be delisted player in order for a club to not resign a star and leave them no option in the PSD. :)

Is Boyd more Hodge or Rawlings? Luck of the draw.

Judging by the reports he's more Hodge than Rawlings

[bornadog]

Just a thought anyway. Would like to see some permutation adopted to get him.
Maybe GWS could throw in that compo pick. Won't happen,but anyway.

What else have we got that GWS need? That's what you have to look at.

[KT31]

Sorry, not willing to give up Will.

Me neither, at the moment and for some time to come he is the best ruck in the competition, wins the first ball for us every time.
And its not like we have much in the way of backup ruckman.

[Remi Moses]

What else have we got that GWS need? That's what you have to look at.

That's why I threw up Minson.

[The Doctor]

Right, I'll put it out there.
I'm going to get whacked from some posters
They're talking once in a generation forward.
Requires lateral thinking. Big Will and pick 5 for pick 1.
( love will, gotta think laterally)
Please don't post Big Footy 12 year old trades that would never see the light of day.
Thoughts?

What do we do for a ruckman then?

[Remi Moses]

Probably go the trade table.

[LostDoggy]

If we traded for a higher pick but still got pipped at the post, would be livid. Nobody is going to give up pick 1.

Happy to just wait and see.

[mighty_west]

I still think GWS won't take Boyd at 1 especially when Franklin seems certain to be going there. Melbourne won't take him because they already have Clark, Dawes & Hogan. So I have Boyd slipping to pick 3 & us likely to be finishing there.
If Boyd goes 1 or 2 then so be it. I'd be devastated like i was when GC got Jack Martin but forgot about Martin once we picked up Stringer. We'll get a ripper at our pick anyway.
Would only consider trading Will if we got an extra 1st round pick, not worth trading him for an upgrade of a few spots in the form he has been in. I can't see that happening anyway.

I disagree with Melbourne not wanting him, they could really set up their next decade with both Hogan and Boyd, Dawes would be a decent mentor playing alongside them both whilst developing, i don't think anyone really believes Dawes is a real gun KPF, and Clark played his best season imo in the ruck for the Lions, plus he's been far too injury prone in his career to be heavily relied on.

[wimberga]

I disagree with Melbourne not wanting him, they could really set up their next decade with both Hogan and Boyd, Dawes would be a decent mentor playing alongside them both whilst developing, i don't think anyone really believes Dawes is a real gun KPF, and Clark played his best season imo in the ruck for the Lions, plus he's been far too injury prone in his career to be heavily relied on.

Agree on your synopsis there MW but Melbourne just need quality mids over and above every other thing. They simply have to take a midfielder and to take anything else is crazy.

That said, if they get a compensation pick, they might get the best of both worlds.

[westdog54]

What do we do for a ruckman then?

Draft Cameron Wood?:D

Love the idea of Boyd but i think the price might be too high.

[Twodogs]

Just a thought anyway. Would like to see some permutation adopted to get him.
Maybe GWS could throw in that compo pick. Won't happen,but anyway.



Maybe they could give us Cal Ward back? We could send pick 22 or whatever it was their way.:rolleyes:

[azabob]

Maybe they could give us Cal Ward back? We could send pick 22 or whatever it was their way.:rolleyes:

I think the compo pick we got was pick 6 or a first round pick.

Harbrow was the second round pick.

[SlimPickens]

Will GWS actually want him?

If the reports that they are after Buddy are true then they'll have Cameron, Patton, Franklin and Boyd. Makes them incredibly top heavy.

Melbourne yes although they already have Hogan(who at this stage is better then Boyd), Clarke and Dawes.

I can't see it working, we'd need to get pick one and we just don't have the currency to trade up like that. Maybe our first 2 picks + Cooney or something like that might work but that's a huge reach.

[GVGjr]

Will GWS actually want him?



They shouldn't be scared off by what they already have on their list. If they judge as being the best they should select him.
I think they could be talked into accepting another deal though if someone like Melbourne offered them pick 2 and their 2nd round pick providing they rate another player very highly.

[Twodogs]

I think the compo pick we got was pick 6 or a first round pick.

Harbrow was the second round pick.



Yep. That's how we got picks 5 and 6 in last years draft. I'm just greedy is all. I'll get used to watching Macrae put his head over the ball and Stringer kick goals from all over the park but I'd love to see Cal alongside them.

I'm still a football romantic so they could have had anyone but Cal (local, his dad played for Yarraville, future captain etc.) and it wouldnt have felt like such a kick in the guts.


Speaking of which have we activated/traded on the pick (twenty something) that we got for Sam Reid yet?

[Sedat]

Speaking of which have we activated/traded on the pick (twenty something) that we got for Sam Reid yet?
We used that pick on Josh Prudden in the 2012 ND. It was a band 5 compensation pick, which ended up being a 3rd round pick. We otherwise would have delisted Reid so it ended up being a bonus pick.

[bornadog]

Is Boyd actually that good?

This is always the risk, no use paying overs.

[Mofra]

Is Boyd actually that good?

I am missing something. Hogan looked a lot better as a 17yo and apparently he wasn't worth pick 5 last year...why is Boyd worth double that this year?
All good questions to ask.
I wonder how many people would have given up Jeremy Cameron's pick and a first round pick to get Patton a couple of years ago?

Right now Cameron's numbers, for a kid in a developing zero wins side, is as good as any key forward in the history of the game.

In Buddy's and Pendlebury's year, pick 5 ended up being the best in the draft (and who knows about 2012 yet ;))

[LostDoggy]

Agree on your synopsis there MW but Melbourne just need quality mids over and above every other thing. They simply have to take a midfielder and to take anything else is crazy.

That said, if they get a compensation pick, they might get the best of both worlds.

You can get quality mids later in the draft. I agree with mighty_west — he'll go pick 1 or 2

[wimberga]

You can get quality mids later in the draft. I agree with mighty_west — he'll go pick 1 or 2

You should be able to, but Melbourne cant.

[Remi Moses]

Maybe they could give us Cal Ward back? We could send pick 22 or whatever it was their way.:rolleyes:

Give us a spell FFS.
They actually get a compo pick again this year.
I sincerely apologise for putting the idea out there.

[Twodogs]

Give us a spell FFS.
They actually get a compo pick again this year.
I sincerely apologise for putting the idea out there.



It's OK Remi it was just a joke. But I may just never let go of this one...

[Remi Moses]

It's OK Remi it was just a joke. But I may just never let go of this one...

But like gifting a side their star :p

[Remi Moses]

Will GWS actually want him?

If the reports that they are after Buddy are true then they'll have Cameron, Patton, Franklin and Boyd. Makes them incredibly top heavy.

Melbourne yes although they already have Hogan(who at this stage is better then Boyd), Clarke and Dawes.

I can't see it working, we'd need to get pick one and we just don't have the currency to trade up like that. Maybe our first 2 picks + Cooney or something like that might work but that's a huge reach.

Word is Gold Coast are now fishing for Buddy.
Backended contracts means they may have the space:eek:

[LostDoggy]

What if the Hawks trade buddy to GWS to obtain pick 1 and use it to select Boyd? It's better than the pick 20ish they get through FA, and protects their KPF stocks.

[bulldogtragic]

What if the Hawks trade buddy to GWS to obtain pick 1 and use it to select Boyd? It's better than the pick 20ish they get through FA, and protects their KPF stocks.
Makes sense Stevew.

[chef]

What if the Hawks trade buddy to GWS to obtain pick 1 and use it to select Boyd? It's better than the pick 20ish they get through FA, and protects their KPF stocks.

Why would GWS trade pick 1 for a player they can pick up for free?

[comrade]

IMO, we need the best midfielder available.

[westdog54]

Why would GWS trade pick 1 for a player they can pick up for free?

Because Hawthorn can still match whatever offer they put up. Make no mistake, Hawthorn will do everything possible to retain Franklin within their salary cap.

[LostDoggy]

Because Hawthorn can still match whatever offer they put up. Make no mistake, Hawthorn will do everything possible to retain Franklin within their salary cap.

Hawks could trade Buddy to anyone prior to FA, if he is going they will trade him, GWS if they want him may have there hand forced by GC, Freo etc in a trade bidding war.

[azabob]

Hawks could trade Buddy to anyone prior to FA, if he is going they will trade him, GWS if they want him may have there hand forced by GC, Freo etc in a trade bidding war.

I don't think it is as simple as that. Where trades are concerned the player has to agree to it.

[anfo27]

Because Hawthorn can still match whatever offer they put up. Make no mistake, Hawthorn will do everything possible to retain Franklin within their salary cap.

Can't see how the hawks can afford to pay buddy $9 million over 6 years. Make no mistake about it Hawthorn will not be getting pick 1 for buddy.

[LostDoggy]

Because Hawthorn can still match whatever offer they put up. Make no mistake, Hawthorn will do everything possible to retain Franklin within their salary cap.

True, Trading for him would mean they don't have to spend all their bickies on him to force Hawthorn's hand. Win win situation for all involved.

[azabob]

True, Trading for him would mean they don't have to spend all their bickies on him to force Hawthorn's hand. Win win situation for all involved.

Except for Franklin.

[LostDoggy]

Can't see how the hawks can afford to pay buddy $9 million over 6 years. Make no mistake about it Hawthorn will not be getting pick 1 for buddy.

It's criminal, really. A player like Buddy should get a priority pick, pick 1, as FA compensation.

[LostDoggy]

Except for Franklin.

Untrue, he'd get top dollar whilst also retaining the respect of his former teammates.

[anfo27]

True, Trading for him would mean they don't have to spend all their bickies on him to force Hawthorn's hand. Win win situation for all involved.

Buddy is only going there for the bickies so GWS have to spend those bickies anyway or he won't be going.

[azabob]

Untrue, he'd get top dollar whilst also retaining the respect of his former teammates.

Callan Ward still has the respect of his teammates and he left via free agency. I get what your saying, but majority of players wouldn't see that side of it anymore.

[The Underdog]

It's criminal, really. A player like Buddy should get a priority pick, pick 1, as FA compensation.

Or we could be grown ups and get rid of free agent compensation altogether.

[Twodogs]

Or we could be grown ups and get rid of free agent compensation altogether.



I agree. Every club has the same opportunity to pick up players under FA so there should be no compensation.

[The Adelaide Connection]

I agree. Every club has the same opportunity to pick up players under FA so there should be no compensation.

That sounds good in theory. In theory each club would lose and gain equal amounts of players equitably. But what happens when it is not balanced i.e. a club loses s stack of players? This would be a system that would kick you extra hard while you are down.

[chef]

Because Hawthorn can still match whatever offer they put up. Make no mistake, Hawthorn will do everything possible to retain Franklin within their salary cap.

But they don't have the salary cap space to match a huge offer.

[GVGjr]

But they don't have the salary cap space to match a huge offer.

That's probably true enough. Getting Lake would have stretched things as well.

Their selling point is about being a one club player and the chance to play finals football including GF.

I still think they are in with a good chance to keep him.

[chef]

That's probably true enough. Getting Lake would have stretched things as well.

Their selling point is about being a one club player and the chance to play finals football including GF.

I still think they are in with a good chance to keep him.

I agree. I think he would be crazy to go anywhere else.

[LostDoggy]

I agree. I think he would be crazy to go anywhere else.

Why? If it was Freo then he'd be going to a team that's around the same mark as Hawthorn in terms of premiership hopes.

If it was GWS then he'd obviously have to wait longer, likely at his age not end up winning a flag, but the team will push for finals by end of 2015 based on what GC have done. His bank balance would sure win though.

[LostDoggy]

I agree. Every club has the same opportunity to pick up players under FA so there should be no compensation.

That's an overly simplistic analogy. I would have to disagree that we have the same opportunity — with a lower salary cap and resources — to compete with GWS for free agents. You'd also have teams who are struggling lose their stars because those players want to “chase a flag”, only exacerbating the issue further and widening the gap between the top and bottom teams.

I think the arguments for free agency put forward by the AFLPA were very short-sighted.

[anfo27]

That's probably true enough. Getting Lake would have stretched things as well.

Their selling point is about being a one club player and the chance to play finals football including GF.

I still think they are in with a good chance to keep him.

Buddy is as good as gone. For starters he doesn't like living in Melbourne & $9 million is far too much money to turn down. I really can not see how he could possibly stay if those figures are accurate.

[westdog54]

Can't see how the hawks can afford to pay buddy $9 million over 6 years. Make no mistake about it Hawthorn will not be getting pick 1 for buddy.

If they don't have the room to match an offer they'll make it. Even if it means a mid range player gets traded for unders. They'll move heaven and earth to keep him if they can't get pen to paper with him prior to FA week.

[westdog54]

Buddy is as good as gone. For starters he doesn't like living in Melbourne & $9 million is far too much money to turn down. I really can not see how he could possibly stay if those figures are accurate.

So how do GWS get Franklin, and keep Ward, Cameron, Patton, Whitfield, Ward et al, plus Boyd if they draft him, in 3 or so years time? The simplistic answer I'd expect would be 'wither their extra salary cap, but people are quick to forget that that salary cap is quickly swallowed up by their expanded list size.

They could chase Franklin and they will get him, but unless they work their figures very cleverly they're going to have a massive problem in 3-5 years.

[LostDoggy]

So how do GWS get Franklin, and keep Ward, Cameron, Patton, Whitfield, Ward et al, plus Boyd if they draft him, in 3 or so years time? The simplistic answer I'd expect would be 'wither their extra salary cap, but people are quick to forget that that salary cap is quickly swallowed up by their expanded list size.

They could chase Franklin and they will get him, but unless they work their figures very cleverly they're going to have a massive problem in 3-5 years.

And at that point they'll trade their bottom 10 A-Graders for 1st round draft picks, keep 20 A++ graders and win 8 flags. Melb Storm in reverse and its sickening.:mad:

[anfo27]

So how do GWS get Franklin, and keep Ward, Cameron, Patton, Whitfield, Ward et al, plus Boyd if they draft him, in 3 or so years time? The simplistic answer I'd expect would be 'wither their extra salary cap, but people are quick to forget that that salary cap is quickly swallowed up by their expanded list size.

They could chase Franklin and they will get him, but unless they work their figures very cleverly they're going to have a massive problem in 3-5 years.

At the minute they would have plenty of room cause they have probably heavily front loaded the contracts of Scully & Ward. They will do the same with buddy to ensure they have the space to keep the players they want.
I'm hoping Buddy does go cause that might stop GWS in taking Boyd, unless they think one of Cameron, Patton & Boyd could play as a key back.

[MrMahatma]

Buddy is as good as gone. For starters he doesn't like living in Melbourne & $9 million is far too much money to turn down. I really can not see how he could possibly stay if those figures are accurate.
Maybe he'd rather play block busters at the G most weeks rather than in front of 5 thousand people at Skoda.

[LostDoggy]

Kicked 3 in the first 10 mins today vs WA before doing an ankle

[LostDoggy]

If we can't get Boyd, any thoughts from the WA brigade about Marsh? Is he looking like a viable option to bolster the forward line?

[GVGjr]

If we can't get Boyd, any thoughts from the WA brigade about Marsh? Is he looking like a viable option to bolster the forward line?

Interesting that you have raised him, I've been discussing him with a few others on here today.

He's a very exciting option but I'm not sure where he will go in the draft. I'm going to the games in Skilled Stadium and Etihad and look forward to seeing how he fares against other Dix one teams.

[Remi Moses]

Highlights I've seen he looks very quick off the mark.
191 cm ( stringer height). Are Fox covering the games?

[GVGjr]

Highlights I've seen he looks very quick off the mark.
191 cm ( stringer height). Are Fox covering the games?

Just the last two games at Etihad

[LostDoggy]

Highlights I've seen he looks very quick off the mark.
191 cm ( stringer height). Are Fox covering the games?

Yeah I like the speed too. From what I've seen he'd be a better 2nd choice than SA's Hourigan. Don't quite get him yet but again have only seen very limited game time + some highlight reels of both.... I'm also hoping they both play at the champs as well so we can get a good look at them. Mate of mine in Adelaide also talks up a kid Durdin or Durden who is apparently an up and coming KPP for next year. Lot of water under the bridge before then but he's already a fan. Options beyond Boyd as much as I'd like to get him. Sharenberg + Marsh might be nice :)

[lemmon]

Just on Boyd if his ankle injury is serious does he slide?

[GVGjr]

Just on Boyd if his ankle injury is serious does he slide?

I don't think it is and he won't slide far.

[bornadog]

Boyd set to miss 4 to 6 weeks with his ankle injury.

[bulldogtragic]

Boyd set to miss 4 to 6 weeks with his ankle injury.
Surely we can convince him to fake a reconstruction so he slides :)

[wimberga]

Pick #5 & Easton Wood/Shaun Higgins/Tom Williams for Pick 1 - any interest?

[GVGjr]

Pick #5 & Easton Wood/Shaun Higgins/Tom Williams for Pick 1 - any interest?

Clearly Silvagni and Cameron won't buy into that type of deal.

[chef]

Pick #5 & Easton Wood/Shaun Higgins/Tom Williams for Pick 1 - any interest?

If we had pick 1 would you be happy with that.

[Mofra]

Pick #5 & Easton Wood/Shaun Higgins/Tom Williams for Pick 1 - any interest?
GWS need to reduce their list size, and packaging a bunch of injury prone or fringe players does not = a gun.

If we wanted a gun forward, the time was last year (mini draft).

[wimberga]

Well does anyone have something that they might accept?

Is this thread not to figure out a way to get Boyd?

[SlimPickens]

Pick 5 and Adam Cooney for Pick 1

[wimberga]

Pick 5 and Adam Cooney for Pick 1

I would do that.

[bulldogtragic]

Pick 5 and Adam Cooney for Pick 1
Where do I sign?

[LostDoggy]

Well does anyone have something that they might accept?

Is this thread not to figure out a way to get Boyd?

I do. Griffen or one of Roughead/Minno + a pick swop their 12 for our pick 4. That's what I'd be demanding if the boot was on the other foot.

If we were going to do any of that we should have gone for Hogan.

If I was GWS I'd definately take Boyd and trade one of Boyd, Patton, Cameron when they have even more value in 3 to 5 years. They can afford to wait to trade until the other teams are even more desperate when Brown, Riewoldt and Pav are all retired in a couple of years and they'll get offers thrown at them by then.

Think we just take best available and wait a year.

[GVGjr]

Pick 5 and Adam Cooney for Pick 1


I would do that.


Where do I sign?

So Cooney has no say in it and given GWS are loaded with mids whats in it for them?
I doubt Cooney would want to move the family to Sydney anyway.

We need to come up with a vastly better offer.

They would want someone like Minson to address their need to upgrade their rucks.
I just don't think we have the pieces they would want to get the number one pick off them.

If they land Buddy and given they already have Cameron and Patton they might be tempted to to trade their pick but would want a premium for it.

Maybe they would be interested in Stringer or Macrae.

[GVGjr]

If I was GWS I'd definately take Boyd and trade one of Boyd, Patton, Cameron when they have even more value in 3 to 5 years. They can afford to wait to trade until the other teams are even more desperate when Brown, Riewoldt and Pav are all retired in a couple of years and they'll get offers thrown at them by then.

Think we just take best available and wait a year.

Yep they will take the player that believe to be the best and I do think we just go down the road of the best available player.

[Dancin' Douggy]

So Cooney has no say in it and given GWS are loaded with mids whats in it for them?
I doubt Cooney would want to move the family to Sydney anyway.

We need to come up with a vastly better offer.

They would want someone like Minson to address their need to upgrade their rucks.
I just don't think we have the pieces they would want to get the number one pick off them.

If they land Buddy and given they already have Cameron and Patton they might be tempted to to trade their pick but would want a premium for it.

Maybe they would be interested in Stringer or Macrae.

would we trade pick 5 (or thereabouts) AND Macrae for No.1 (Boyd) Is he that good?

[Mofra]

would we trade pick 5 (or thereabouts) AND Macrae for No.1 (Boyd) Is he that good?
I would be dead against this.
If we wanted to trade heavily for a KPF, by all accounts the time was last year (Hogan).
Boyd is the second best available this year.
Kosi was the second best available in 2000, and he won the rising star in 2001.

Would we trade Macrae & pick 5 for Kosi's career?

[bulldogsman]

would we trade pick 5 (or thereabouts) AND Macrae for No.1 (Boyd) Is he that good?

No, I can't see this happening. Hogan looks the better of the two, yet we did not want to trade picks 5 & 6 for him. Can't see us doing exactly that for Boyd and neither would I want to.

I'd rather trade pick 5 + something else for a proven KPF.

[bulldogsman]

So Cooney has no say in it and given GWS are loaded with mids whats in it for them?
I doubt Cooney would want to move the family to Sydney anyway.

We need to come up with a vastly better offer.

They would want someone like Minson to address their need to upgrade their rucks.
I just don't think we have the pieces they would want to get the number one pick off them.

If they land Buddy and given they already have Cameron and Patton they might be tempted to to trade their pick but would want a premium for it.

Maybe they would be interested in Stringer or Macrae.

What if Melbourne get the No 1 pick?

Would GWS be interested in trading Patton?

[LostDoggy]

What if Melbourne get the No 1 pick?

Would GWS be interested in trading Patton?

They'd have even less reason to do so wouldn't they?

Draft draft and draft for us unless someone desperately wants Cooney and will pay a premium.

[bulldogsman]

They'd have even less reason to do so wouldn't they?

Draft draft and draft for us unless someone desperately wants Cooney and will pay a premium.

Probably, but we have plenty of inside mids which may interest them. Either way, it's hard to see it happening.

[always right]

Hmmm....Callan Ward is a mercenary but someone suggests we pack Cooney off to GWS and the response is...where do I sign?

[bulldogtragic]

Hmmm....Callan Ward is a mercenary but someone suggests we pack Cooney off to GWS and the response is...where do I sign?
Two very different things.

Ward was hitting his straps nd had his career ahead of him, which would have been over 200 games and included captaincy.

Cooney is winding down, is being paid a mint and despite his greatness, his talent will be wasted in his remaining years. Cooney leaving opens up the salary cap and may net us another good player.

Like meerkats. Two very different things.

[bornadog]

Two very different things.

Ward was hitting his straps nd had his career ahead of him, which would have been over 200 games and included captaincy.

Cooney is winding down, is being paid a mint and despite his greatness, his talent will be wasted in his remaining years. Cooney leaving opens up the salary cap and may net us another good player.

Like meerkats. Two very different things.

28 years old he is not winding down.

[wimberga]

28 years old he is not winding down.

28 years old with a degenerative knee injury since winning a brownlow at 22/23 probably is though wouldnt you agree?

[bulldogtragic]

28 years old with a degenerative knee injury since winning a brownlow at 22/23 probably is though wouldnt you agree?
Agreed.

[lemmon]

Just on the idea that GWS takes best available (Boyd) then trades one out sometime down the track I'm not sold on it as I'm not sure its how reality works. Hypothetically lets say GWS finish bottom grab Boyd as best available but also end up with Franklin. They simply can't squeeze all four in so lets say Patton is the unlucky man who eeks out the occasional game for the seniors and plays in the twos most weeks. Boyd lives up to the hype and looks a very good player alongside Franklin and Cameron so there isn't a place for Patton.

Fast forward to the 2014 trade period and Patton's on the market, GWS would be kidding themselves if they think they get anywhere near Patton's true worth in a trade, a 21 year old former number 1 with a heap of talent but hasn't had the opportunity to show it and carrying a knee reco over his head. They might get a mid first rounder or a B+ player in a trade but it isn't the return on investment you'd want for a number one draft pick.

Surely the better option would be to take an Aish or a Scharenberg, get a guy who can fulfill his potential in a position you need OR trade the pick now and get its true value rather then diluting it by waiting. Every year these kids are on a list and not in the view of the football community their currency falls.

[soupman]

Two very different things.

Ward was hitting his straps nd had his career ahead of him, which would have been over 200 games and included captaincy.

Cooney is winding down, is being paid a mint and despite his greatness, his talent will be wasted in his remaining years. Cooney leaving opens up the salary cap and may net us another good player.

Like meerkats. Two very different things.

Not really.

Ward screwed us over to go there, we would be screwing Cooney over to send him there.

It's a bit hypocritical to say that players should show loyalty to us when they are offered a great opportunity (in wards case $$$) but when the club is offered a great opportunity (pick 1) it's ok.

[wimberga]

Not really.

Ward screwed us over to go there, we would be screwing Cooney over to send him there.

It's a bit hypocritical to say that players should show loyalty to us when they are offered a great opportunity (in wards case $$$) but when the club is offered a great opportunity (pick 1) it's ok.

Keep in mind that the player has to agree to the trade too.

[1eyedog]

That's probably true enough. Getting Lake would have stretched things as well.

Their selling point is about being a one club player and the chance to play finals football including GF.

I still think they are in with a good chance to keep him.

That's what Geelong sold to Ablett.

[always right]

Keep in mind that the player has to agree to the trade too.

Sure but in most cases where the club has made it clear they would like to trade a player to another club, the player moves on rather than playing where he believes he is not wanted.

I love the way we class the Cooney scenario as different to the Ward scenario simply because they are at different stages of their careers. We hold different standards of morality depending whether we think we win or lose on the deal.

[wimberga]

Sure but in most cases where the club has made it clear they would like to trade a player to another club, the player moves on rather than playing where he believes he is not wanted.

I love the way we class the Cooney scenario as different to the Ward scenario simply because they are at different stages of their careers. We hold different standards of morality depending whether we think we win or lose on the deal.

Your probably right AR for those who are dirty on Ward.

I don't begrudge Ward one bit, would have loved him to stay but he chose to go and that's fine. And with regards to Cooney, If we were offered pick 1 for him + 5 & wood or something of the like, I would be open to that too. If the club were to actively seek a trade for him, that would be fine too because you have to look after yourself first.

I support the club and those players who play for it. Players who leave or players who are traded matter less to me but I wont be dirty on them. I need to have faith that the club is doing what it can for the benefit of the club.

[GVGjr]

would we trade pick 5 (or thereabouts) AND Macrae for No.1 (Boyd) Is he that good?

I was throwing the types of offers they might be interested in hearing but I wouldn't do it.

Offering the likes of Wood, Cooney and Higgins isn't going to get it done.

[Dancin' Douggy]

In all honesty, we need a gun midfielder just as much as we need a Key forward.
Who of our current batch, are gonna burst out of the centre like Griffen, and like Cooney used to, and bang goals from outside 50, or deliver it lace out to a leading Stringer.

We need some top end talent in there.

[LostDoggy]

This is an excellent point DD. My thinking is that Operation Get Tom Boyd will flat line as the two or three in front of us will grab him. Operation Get Matt Scharenberg & Operation Get Dayle Garlett become the offensives.

[westdog54]

Little bit OT, but did anyone else think of the 'Operation 'Get Fev'' thread on BigFooty from a few years ago when they saw the thread title, or was that just me?

[bulldogtragic]

Little bit OT, but did anyone else think of the 'Operation 'Get Fev'' thread on BigFooty from a few years ago when they saw the thread title, or was that just me?
Haven't been on BF for 6 1/2 years. Not since a core of us moved to the tri-colours website which then led to WOOF.

[LostDoggy]

Well does anyone have something that they might accept?

Is this thread not to figure out a way to get Boyd?

The only way would be something like Griff and pick 5.

[chef]

The only way would be something like Griff and pick 5.

Yep, It's never going to happen.

Operation Get Either Crameri Or Gumbleton for me.

[The Pie Man]

Yep, It's never going to happen.

Operation Get Either Crameri Or Gumbleton for me.

I think so too - have no idea what the next best KF draft option is, but we may need to look at pick 20(ish) for that.

You'd have to think our interest in Gumby remains, and he's a slim chance at best to remain at the Dons

[SlimPickens]

On further thought, the only way I could see it working is....

Minson for Pick 1.

You'd then have to consider moving Roughy back into the ruck or try and recruit/trade for a ruckman or key defender.

I'm not sure I'd do it but it would be incredibly bold. It would bring some excitement back to the footy club having 2 more young elite talent at the footy club. Losing Minson on the other would be an incredibly tough sell.

[chef]

On further thought, the only way I could see it working is....

Minson for Pick 1.

You'd then have to consider moving Roughy back into the ruck or try and recruit/trade for a ruckman or key defender.

I'm not sure I'd do it but it would be incredibly bold. It would bring some excitement back to the footy club having 2 more young elite talent at the footy club. Losing Minson on the other would be an incredibly tough sell.

Would have to be Minson and pick 3(or whatever we end up with) for pick 1, he isn't worth it on his own IMO.

[SlimPickens]

Would have to be Minson and pick 3(or whatever we end up with) for pick 1, he isn't worth it on his own IMO.

If he is the AA ruckman he may be. I originally had pick 3 + Minson but I think it's too high a price. Maybe our 2nd round pick plus Minson.

[The Pie Man]

I'd be loathe to trade Minson - though when giving it thought, has everyone given up on Tom Campbell becoming a legit No. 1 ruckman in 12-18 (or whatever) months time?

[SlimPickens]

I'd be loathe to trade Minson - though when giving it thought, has everyone given up on Tom Campbell becoming a legit No. 1 ruckman in 12-18 (or whatever) months time?

I haven't but he is coming from a long way back. Rucks take a bloody long time to develop, Minson is a great example of this. To me he stays on our list and is the number one ruckman at VFL level next year, which will help his development immensely.

[Rance Fan]

Boyd, Cooney and 2nd round pick to GWS for first pick?

[Ghost Dog]

Boyd, Cooney and 2nd round pick to GWS for first pick?

The Bulldogs met with the Giants recently and signalled strong interest in purchasing the rights to Boyd via the No.1 pick.
A Dogs-Giants deal wouldn't be difficult, because it would involve no more than the Dogs swapping from pick No.3 or 4 to pick No.1 (again, we assume the Demons aren't 18th).
The Dogs wouldn't need to part with as much, because pick three is worth far more than Carlton's eventual pick. Therefore, it behoves the Blues to be daring. Kreuzer and Yarran have the currency to trump the Dogs, the Lions and probably most clubs, particularly if the Giants keep Carlton's first pick.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-need-chopping-block-20130629-2p48q.html#ixzz2XkdCd100

[chef]

Boyd, Cooney and 2nd round pick to GWS for first pick?

If we had pick 1` would you swap it for Boyd, Cooney and a pick in the 20's?

Plus Cooney doesn't come into any trade scenarios what so ever as he is a FA, if he wants to be anywhere but here(and that's an if) then he's going to walk to a club in a premiership window.

[SlimPickens]

If we had pick 1` would you swap it for Boyd, Cooney and a pick in the 20's.

Great minds Chef!

[bornadog]

If we had pick 1` would you swap it for Boyd, Cooney and a pick in the 20's?

Plus Cooney doesn't come into any trade scenarios what so ever as he is a FA, if he wants to be anywhere but here(and that's an if) then he's going to walk to a club in a premiership window.

This ^^^

[Dancin' Douggy]

This little snippet has gone unnoticed....... from an article about Carlton's need to trade.
Blues need chopping block. By Jake Niall June 30. The Age

The Bulldogs met with the Giants recently and signalled strong interest in purchasing the rights to Boyd via the No.1 pick.
A Dogs-Giants deal wouldn't be difficult, because it would involve no more than the Dogs swapping from pick No.3 or 4 to pick No.1 (again, we assume the Demons aren't 18th).
The Dogs wouldn't need to part with as much, because pick three is worth far more than Carlton's eventual pick.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-need-chopping-block-20130629-2p48q.html#ixzz2XkofJfSr

[Dancin' Douggy]

Ooops. I see it hasn't gone unnoticed. Anyway, interesting reading.

[bornadog]

This little snippet has gone unnoticed....... from an article about Carlton's need to trade.
Blues need chopping block. By Jake Niall June 30. The Age

The Bulldogs met with the Giants recently and signalled strong interest in purchasing the rights to Boyd via the No.1 pick.
A Dogs-Giants deal wouldn't be difficult, because it would involve no more than the Dogs swapping from pick No.3 or 4 to pick No.1 (again, we assume the Demons aren't 18th).
The Dogs wouldn't need to part with as much, because pick three is worth far more than Carlton's eventual pick.

The Giants wouldn't want just a straight swap, they are looking for quality ready made players. Who would they want from us -and they won't be getting Griffen.?

Higgins?, would they entertain pick three for pick one plus Higgins?

[LostDoggy]

Swap picks one and three and we throw in smith or wallis or both

[LostDoggy]

Swap picks one and three and we throw in smith or wallis or both

Problem is both those players fit into GWSs' category of inexperienced players...and noether are considered guns.

[LostDoggy]

Problem is both those players fit into GWSs' category of inexperienced players...and noether are considered guns.

Agreed but we wont part with Minson or Griffen so probably only our Boyd would be the only player they would want

[Greystache]

Problem is both those players fit into GWSs' category of inexperienced players...and noether are considered guns.

And neither have pace or good skills which is what GWS desperately need.

As the article says, if they don't want Boyd and we guarantee we will take him then they're not much worse off getting pick 3 than they are pick 1. We shouldn't sell the farm unless another club looks like usurping us to get Boyd. The chances are if we have pick 3 (behind GWS and Melbourne) then he'll be available at our selection anyway.

[Greystache]

Agreed but we wont part with Minson or Griffen so probably only our Boyd would be the only player they would want

Griffen is worth pick 1 on his own.

Him plus pick #3 in exchange for pick #1 is way way over the odds.

[bulldogtragic]

And neither have pace or good skills which is what GWS desperately need.

As the article says, if they don't want Boyd and we guarantee we will take him then they're not much worse off getting pick 3 than they are pick 1. We shouldn't sell the farm unless another club looks like usurping us to get Boyd. The chances are if we have pick 3 (behind GWS and Melbourne) then he'll be available at our selection anyway.
If that's the case, then a mid range player like Higgins or Smith should be enough for the upgrade.

[bornadog]

The chances are if we have pick 3 (behind GWS and Melbourne) then he'll be available at our selection anyway.

I think you have a good point here, both clubs don't need another big man. However, if Boyd is that good, why wouldn't you take him at pick 1 or 2.

To me its all a risk, and I wouldn't be paying over the odds for another tall that may be good at juniors but fails at senior football. We have had plenty of those.

[Greystache]

If that's the case, then a mid range player like Higgins or Smith should be enough for the upgrade.

The mid range player has to hold some value to them otherwise it adds nothing to the deal. Higgins is hardly ever on the park, and when he is he's inconsistent. I don't see the value from GWS' perspective.

Smith is more of what they have, sure he's better than the likes of Reid who gets some games, but if they're going to trade it would be for something mid range that fills a gap. JJ would appeal to them, but given our lists are similar we wouldn't let him go.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think you have a good point here, both clubs don't need another big man. However, if Boyd is that good, why wouldn't you take him at pick 1 or 2.

To me its all a risk, and I wouldn't be paying over the odds for another tall that may be good at juniors but fails at senior football. We have had plenty of those.

So I guess the key is that we finish lower than the saints? as I'm sure they would want a key forward to replace Kosi and Riewoldt.

After investing in Dawes, Clarke and Hogan, Melbourne won't go for a key forward, they need midfield clearance ability, someone like.......Olly Wines :)

If the Giants get Franklin they won't won't Boyd either. Franklin, Patton, Cameron and others there already.

Hopefully we don't have to do any deals, just have to make sure the saints finish higher than us.

[bulldogtragic]

The mid range player has to hold some value to them otherwise it adds nothing to the deal. Higgins is hardly ever on the park, and when he is he's inconsistent. I don't see the value from GWS' perspective.

Smith is more of what they have, sure he's better than the likes of Reid who gets some games, but if they're going to trade it would be for something mid range that fills a gap. JJ would appeal to them, but given our lists are similar we wouldn't let him go.
But if they don't want Boyd, then they are passing up a free player. Higgo or Smith for free isn't all that bad.

Outside the square, if they want Boyd and a pick 3 midfielder, subject to medical, Patton would be a great get with our first pick.

[Greystache]

I think you have a good point here, both clubs don't need another big man. However, if Boyd is that good, why wouldn't you take him at pick 1 or 2.

To me its all a risk, and I wouldn't be paying over the odds for another tall that may be good at juniors but fails at senior football. We have had plenty of those.

But if another club decided to do whatever it takes to get him then that situation changes. We need to make sure we read the play extremely well if we take that approach.

The best available approach regardless of list structure is a bad approach. All selections have a gamble element and to say that X player is definitely so much better than Y that even though we have an abundance of X and desperately need Y we can't possibly overlook X. It's just clubs taking the easy/short term view and recruiters drinking their own bath water thinking they have recruiting down to a science.

Every draft pick has some element of gamble. at least Boyd has dominated at underage level, that's not something that can be said of any of our other early draft pick talls, regardless of how early we selected them (eg Walsh at #4 and Grant at #5).

[bulldogtragic]

But if another club decided to do whatever it takes to get him then that situation changes. We need to make sure we read the play extremely well if we take that approach.

The best available approach regardless of list structure is a bad approach. All selections have a gamble element and to say that X player is definitely so much better than Y that even though we have an abundance of X and desperately need Y we can't possibly overlook X. It's just clubs taking the easy/short term view and recruiters drinking their own bath water thinking they have recruiting down to a science.

Every draft pick has some element of gamble. at least Boyd has dominated at underage level, that's not something that can be said of any of our other early draft pick talls, regardless of how early we selected them (eg Walsh at #4 and Grant at #5).
Grant was miles ahead as the number one contested marker in the TAC Cup... But I still agree with your sentiment.

[Greystache]

Outside the square, if they want Boyd and a pick 3 midfielder, subject to medical, Patton would be a great get with our first pick.

That's potentially a more likely scenario and certainly one we should consider.


But if they don't want Boyd, then they are passing up a free player. Higgo or Smith for free isn't all that bad.

It's not free, there's an opportunity cost attached to it. They could potentially trade to a midtable club and get a good players that fills a need and pick #8 for pick #1 instead.

Eg Pick #8 and Bastinac from Norf.

[Greystache]

Grant was miles ahead as the number one contested marker in the TAC Cup... But I still agree with your sentiment.

But he only played 8 games and didn't play for Vic metro in the National Champs. His exposed form was limited.

[Remi Moses]

The Bulldogs met with the Giants recently and signalled strong interest in purchasing the rights to Boyd via the No.1 pick.
A Dogs-Giants deal wouldn't be difficult, because it would involve no more than the Dogs swapping from pick No.3 or 4 to pick No.1 (again, we assume the Demons aren't 18th).
The Dogs wouldn't need to part with as much, because pick three is worth far more than Carlton's eventual pick. Therefore, it behoves the Blues to be daring. Kreuzer and Yarran have the currency to trump the Dogs, the Lions and probably most clubs, particularly if the Giants keep Carlton's first pick.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-need-chopping-block-20130629-2p48q.html#ixzz2XkdCd100

Interesting article . With GWS and their large stable of key forwards could entertain that
( if they get Buddy)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Its interesting that we are in talks with GWS for pick no 1. I mean we must really really rate this kid if we are prepared to give away an established player for nothing with pick 3 as we could get Boyd at pick 3 on its own. But its obviously not that straight forward, considering we could finish ahead of the Saints or GWS play us by saying they will take Boyd either way. They hold all the power here so we need to be careful

[Remi Moses]

I think our desperation is well known .

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Griffen is worth pick 1 on his own.

Him plus pick #3 in exchange for pick #1 is way way over the odds.

Griffen is superior to a pick 1, who are untried and potential only. He has risen to elite status, is devoted to the Bulldogs and is at his best now and and has years left. You do not trade Griffens and you do not talk about trading Griffens. You never forget Griffens because he is one of our best ever.
Matt Boyd, Higgins and/or Cooney plus our no.3 pick for GWS no.1 pick may get the deal done because one or two of those three offer experience and culture. Matt Boyd in particular could show the young GWS how to train the house down, what's needed to get the best out of your talent. This is gold especially to GWS. Matt Boyd has football culture. Like Les Patterson, cultural attache, he has culture coming out of his a---hole:)

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Sorry that should be Sir Les Patterson who's in culture up to his a---hole culture.
http://www.photoshop.com/tools/expresseditor?wf=editor

[Greystache]

Griffen is superior to a pick 1, who are untried and potential only. He has risen to elite status, is devoted to the Bulldogs and is at his best now and and has years left. You do not trade Griffens and you do not talk about trading Griffens. You never forget Griffens because he is one of our best ever.

No one is suggesting we trade Griffen, in all likelihood he'll be captain next year. Some posters were just questioning what it would take to get pick #1 in the draft.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How do junior watchers compare Boyd and Patton?

I think we need to go very hard at one of them, while maintaining the likes of Minson and co.

Package Pick 3 with a Wood/Higgins/Smith/Wallis type if possible.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

How do junior watchers compare Boyd and Patton?

I think we need to go very hard at one of them, while maintaining the likes of Minson and co.

Package Pick 3 with a Wood/Higgins/Smith/Wallis type if possible.

Yes and how does he compare to Jesse Wells who I saw on Sat on on ch 2? On paper they are very similar. Wells was outstanding, a man at 18.

[bulldogtragic]

How do junior watchers compare Boyd and Patton?

I think we need to go very hard at one of them, while maintaining the likes of Minson and co.

Package Pick 3 with a Wood/Higgins/Smith/Wallis type if possible.
I'm just googling the comparisons bw Patton and Boyd. Height, weight are similar.

"Where Patton played with a pack-splitting, bash-and-crash mentality, Boyd has operated as more of a lead-up target for the Ranges."

Boyd averaged over 3 goals a game as a junior in the TAC cup last year. This year averaging over 5!!!


As for Patton "He won the Eastern Ranges' best-and-fairest in 2010 as a 17-year-old and this season was named as the under-18 All-Australian full-forward after a stunning national championships in which he kicked 18 goals and was named best on ground in three of Vic Metro's five games.

In 11 TAC Cup matches this year Patton averaged 4.3 contested marks (1.2 more than the league's next best) and 2.8 goals (0.5 better than any other multiple-game player)."


Both very impressive, I'd be stoked with either.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

No one is suggesting we trade Griffen, in all likelihood he'll be captain next year. Some posters were just questioning what it would take to get pick #1 in the draft.

Thanks Greystache. Is that your moustache that's grey? My beard's hairs are grey and I've earnt everyone of them.

[Greystache]

Thanks Greystache. Is that your moustache that's grey? My beard's hairs are grey and I've earnt everyone of them.

No, not old enough for grey just yet. It's a mix of a classic Simpsons episode and the irony that I can't really grow a moustache.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think It's more likely than not, looking at the remaining fixtures that the Saints will finish 16th and us 15th, Saints would be super keen to do a deal with GWS to get Boyd.

[SlimPickens]

Yes and how does he compare to Jesse Wells who I saw on Sat on on ch 2? On paper they are very similar. Wells was outstanding, a man at 18.

Jesse Hogan? If it were an open draft, hogan 1 or 2, Martin 1-2 and Boyd 3.

[azabob]

Jesse Hogan? If it were an open draft, hogan 1 or 2, Martin 1-2 and Boyd 3.

Man, talk about our bad timing, being down now.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think It's more likely than not, looking at the remaining fixtures that the Saints will finish 16th and us 15th, Saints would be super keen to do a deal with GWS to get Boyd.

The one time we finally beat that club it ends up costing us a power forward? That would be frustrating.

Still, one pick might not make much of a difference. More might depend on the established player(s) offered.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'll be livid if we finish above St. Kilda and miss out on Boyd.

[Remi Moses]

Stkilda need a massive injection to their midfield though.
They recruited Lee and Spencer White to play forward.
They could snag a few wins in the back end of the year, and having Riewoldt they could shock a few teams.
I think it might depend on what Buddy does, and still not sold on GWS giving it up.

[Remi Moses]

The one time we finally beat that club it ends up costing us a power forward? That would be frustrating.

Still, one pick might not make much of a difference. More might depend on the established player(s) offered.

They'll look at a key back in the trade period ( heavily linked to Brown still)
That seems to be a big priority

[Twodogs]

No, not old enough for grey just yet. It's a mix of a classic Simpsons episode and the irony that I can't really grow a moustache.



He is my kids fave Simpsons character.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Man, talk about our bad timing, being down now.

Very bad. But if we land Boyd it wont have mattered. Im already thinking of the draft......

[Greystache]

Very bad. But if we land Boyd it wont have mattered. Im already thinking of the draft......

And Gerard Healy will have another Bulldog player to incorrectly call Brad Boyd :rolleyes:

[Bulldog4life]

To get draft pick 1 it appears that it all depends what player(s) a team can offer GWS as well as switching draft picks. Not sure St.Kilda has got any appropriate players to offer. Not sure we have either. Still think the Saints will finish below us on the ladder though.

[Twodogs]

And Gerard Healy will have another Bulldog player to incorrectly call Brad Boyd :rolleyes:



Heh! :D

[bornadog]

This is what GWS are looking for:


"Sheeds and Leon Cameron have been talking with (list manager) Stephen Silvagni and publicly about the need for a ruckman, the need for another key defender and a need for a key forward, so they're the sorts of needs that the guys are trying to meet over the next six months or so."

Do we have anyone to Satisfy them?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

This is what GWS are looking for:



Do we have anyone to Satisfy them?

"Sheeds and Leon Cameron have been talking with (list manager) Stephen Silvagni and publicly about the need for a ruckman, the need for another key defender and a need for a key forward, so they're the sorts of needs that the guys are trying to meet over the next six months or so."

Doesnt that mean they will just take Boyd then? Im guessing it will depend on whether they get Franklin or not.

The only player i think we can offer is Minson

[chef]

This is what GWS are looking for:



Do we have anyone to Satisfy them?

Roughead?

[bornadog]

Roughead?

But why give up a known AFL tall for an untried kid. No way I would be giving up Roughy. They can have Campbell if they want a ruckman. (who is also untried)

[Happy Days]

But why give up a known AFL tall for an untried kid

Why even draft then? Lets just trade all our picks for known players!

[chef]

But why give up a known AFL tall for an untried kid. No way I would be giving up Roughy. They can have Campbell if they want a ruckman. (who is also untried)

Not suggesting we should do it, just that if they want a ruck and a key back that's who on our list they would want.

If it was up to me i'd hang on to all our picks and try and get Gumbleton for nothing in the PSD.

[bornadog]

Why even draft then? Lets just trade all our picks for known players!

We de-list then draft, we don't give up good players, especially Talls, unless we have an abundance of one type of player. I don't see an abundance of talls at the Doggies (or good players)

[Bulldog Revolution]

My view is that we have to make a very strong play for Boyd, He is as cant miss as it gets with junior forwards.

I dont think GWS will trade Patton, even if its the better football decision, as I think they'll be conscious of the message that sends to the playing group - "we covet you as juniors, woo you, draft you, ask you to commit to a startup enterprise long term, then trade you in after you get injured"

With Buddy highly likely to join they are relatively set up forward (Franklin, Cameron and Patton is a great mix) they will get what they want at #3 anyway

We cant give up Minson because we'd have no viable ruckman, we wont give up Griffen or Libba, after that I think we'd be open to discussions.

Will be interesting if Leon Cameron has a former charger that he wants.

[Bulldog4life]

If the Hawks lose Buddy you would think they would have their eyes on Boyd too. Again like Carlton, like St.Kilda and like us it depends what players all Clubs can offer. Of course the best draft pick a Club can swap with GWS you would imagine would count a lot too.

[azabob]

Will be interesting if Leon Cameron has a former charger that he wants.

Callan Ward... Oh wait... thats right....

[bornadog]

If the Hawks lose Buddy you would think they would have their eyes on Boyd too. Again like Carlton, like St.Kilda and like us it depends what players all Clubs can offer. Of course the best draft pick a Club can swap with GWS you would imagine would count a lot too.

If I was the Hawks and about to lose Buddy, i would expect the number one draft pick.

[LostDoggy]

If I was the Hawks and about to lose Buddy, i would expect the number one draft pick.

Expect yes; get no. They can max receive 1 1st rounder tied to their draft position under current rules. Unless Vlad decides to change the rules which he does every second week anyway... :)

[LostDoggy]

Not suggesting we should do it, just that if they want a ruck and a key back that's who on our list they would want.

If it was up to me i'd hang on to all our picks and try and get Gumbleton for nothing in the PSD.

Agreed. Carlton desperately need a tall forward to be a real flag hope and they have Hampson to cover the loss of Kruzer. They could also afford to throw Carazzo or another decent mid with leadership qualities to get the deal done. It's overs but watch the bidding war start once GWS have signed Buddy. Lions likewise have leuenberger and longer and would be better off with Boyd than hanging onto both. Adelaide may well throw quality leadership players into the mix.

I don't see any way we can get the deal done with the list issues we have. We can't afford to trade the players GWS would want as we have no cover. Pick 3 + crap will get trumped by one of the fringe top 8 clubs making a move. Again; if we were going to pay overs for a forward we missed the better boat with Hogan.

We need to draft and draft well for the next three years still and try to uncover our own forward during that time. Gumby would help but the issue is bigger than that it seems to me.

[Cyberdoggie]

As long as we don't pay overs for him. Can get an very good pick at 3 or 4.
Sheed from WA would be very handy in our midfield.
Some might say we dont' have a forward line but our ball movement/delivery and kicking skills are so poor we don't make it very easy for them.
Some quality users of pill other than Griffen and a nearly washed up Cooney might help.

[LostDoggy]

As long as we don't pay overs for him. Can get an very good pick at 3 or 4.
Sheed from WA would be very handy in our midfield.
Some might say we dont' have a forward line but our ball movement/delivery and kicking skills are so poor we don't make it very easy for them.
Some quality users of pill other than Griffen and a nearly washed up Cooney might help.

I was so impressed with Sheed on Friday. He's almost ready-made as a inside and outside midfielder. Well built and athletic with excellent left foot disposal.

Shame Patrick McCartin cleaned him up as I’d have liked to have seen him this Wednesday also.

If we can't get Operation Tom Boyd over the line we could do much worse than Dom Sheed, as this is another area of deficiency for us.

[Dry Rot]

Agreed. Carlton desperately need a tall forward to be a real flag hope and they have Hampson to cover the loss of Kruzer. They could also afford to throw Carazzo or another decent mid with leadership qualities to get the deal done. It's overs but watch the bidding war start once GWS have signed Buddy. Lions likewise have leuenberger and longer and would be better off with Boyd than hanging onto both. Adelaide may well throw quality leadership players into the mix.

I don't see any way we can get the deal done with the list issues we have. We can't afford to trade the players GWS would want as we have no cover. Pick 3 + crap will get trumped by one of the fringe top 8 clubs making a move.


Agreed. I can't believe I'm reading suggestions of Higgins and other players getting the deal done.

The only things of worth to GWS that we have are Pick 3, Minson and Griff. To get the deal done and trump the likes of Carlton it will take one or two of those.

Is it worth it? Does Boyd have that much potential?

[Dry Rot]

Agreed. I can't believe I'm reading suggestions of Higgins and other players getting the deal done.

The only things of worth to GWS that we have are Pick 3, Minson and Griff. To get the deal done and trump the likes of Carlton it will take one or two of those.

Is it worth it? Does Boyd have that much potential?

I suppose I'd add that neither Griff or Minson will be around when we are good again. And trading one of them will ensure a bottom two finnish next year.

[bornadog]

Is it worth it? Does Boyd have that much potential?

It is a risk and I would not be prepared to take for a Minson or Griff.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It is a risk and I would not be prepared to take for a Minson or Griff.

Agree not worth the risk. I mean lets face it, odds on we will get a pretty decent kid with pick 3 anyway. At the moment we are a team that can apply 'best available' logic as we need talent any which way we can get it (except an inside mid of course)

[bornadog]

Agree not worth the risk. I mean lets face it, odds on we will get a pretty decent kid with pick 3 anyway. At the moment we are a team that can apply 'best available' logic as we need talent any which way we can get it (except an inside mid of course)

Please no more inside slow mids.

[bulldogtragic]

Please no more inside slow mids.
But what if they are good young men who train hard? :)

[1eyedog]

Agree not worth the risk. I mean lets face it, odds on we will get a pretty decent kid with pick 3 anyway. At the moment we are a team that can apply 'best available' logic as we need talent any which way we can get it (except an inside mid of course)

Agreed, even if we target a tall forward.

Josh Kennedy @ 4
Mitch Clark @ 9
Michael Hurley @ 5
Jack Riewoldt @ 13
Kurt Tippett @ 32

Would like anyone of these players at FF for us.

Then there are the top 10 misses who I will leave out...

Got to do our homework to fill our greatest need and then need some luck.

[soupman]

We cannot afford to trade Minson or Griffen for anything short of Ablett or Buddy.

If we trade either of them it makes us a club that is perceived by players to be disloyal, and makes the task of marketing our side impossible. These guys are our only good players. they have been holding the side together all season and are the only two realistic options as on field leaders of the club, and faces of the club.

Not to mention without them we are left in the exact same position as Melbourne has found themselves in. As good as Tom Boyd could potentially be I'm not sure the club would be healthy enough for him to fulfill that potential if either of these two players leave.

The way i see it is that the only player we have that we would be happy to give up and that they may be interested in is Easton Wood, seeing as they were reported as being into him as a backup if Ward fell through. I would be surprised if Wood plus pick 3 would be enough.

I guess our offers worth comes down to whether the player GWS want to draft is good enough that they need pick 3 to secure them meaning the bonus player we throw is is just a bonus. If another club can offer a quality player in any of those positon they require however then the pick they get becomes the bonus, which would pretty much ruin our offer.

[LostDoggy]

But why give up a known AFL tall for an untried kid. No way I would be giving up Roughy. They can have Campbell if they want a ruckman. (who is also untried)

Because it's not only the number one pick we're asking for, it's a player that is as guaranteed as they come. Yeah, he might get hit by a bus on draft day, but rotten luck aside, he's a goer. You can't just toss in Higgins and expect GWS to say, “Yeah, no worries, here you go mate, we'll take your list issues off your hands for this quality kid.”

I think Boyd is worth any player on our list, for the simple fact that he appears to be a player you can build your list around and that's what we need. Griff wants to stay though, is supremely loyal and therefore it's a dicey situation there. If GWS ask for him specifically, and/or Griff approaches the club willing to do the deal, then fine.

I love Griff, but he's not going to be in the next Bulldogs premiership side.

Think forward 5–6 years. We're in the prelim against a monster GWS side. They have Patton and Cameron as figureheads, Buddy has retired or is near the end. We don't have a key forward because we didn't have the cojones to get the trade done six years ago. We dominate across the ground but just can't kick a winning score. It's 2009 all over again.

[Dry Rot]

GWS could be very clever with a trade involving Minson or Griff + Pick 3 for Pick one.

They would then have Picks 3 and 10 and still need a quality defender among other things. If I were them, I'd then try to on-trade Pick 3 for a quality player plus their first round pick from a top eight side eg the Bombers. ie Pick 3 for player plus say pick 14.

[Dry Rot]

Because it's not only the number one pick we're asking for, it's a player that is as guaranteed as they come. Yeah, he might get hit by a bus on draft day, but rotten luck aside, he's a goer. You can't just toss in Higgins and expect GWS to say, “Yeah, no worries, here you go mate, we'll take your list issues off your hands for this quality kid.”

I think Boyd is worth any player on our list, for the simple fact that he appears to be a player you can build your list around and that's what we need. Griff wants to stay though, is supremely loyal and therefore it's a dicey situation there. If GWS ask for him specifically, and/or Griff approaches the club willing to do the deal, then fine.

I love Griff, but he's not going to be in the next Bulldogs premiership side.

Think forward 5–6 years. We're in the prelim against a monster GWS side. They have Patton and Cameron as figureheads, Buddy has retired or is near the end. We don't have a key forward because we didn't have the cojones to get the trade done six years ago. We dominate across the ground but just can't kick a winning score. It's 2009 all over again.

What would Hawthorn do in this position? NB bold bit

[Remi Moses]

Agreed, even if we target a tall forward.

Josh Kennedy @ 4
Mitch Clark @ 9
Michael Hurley @ 5
Jack Riewoldt @ 13
Kurt Tippett @ 32

Would like anyone of these players at FF for us.

Then there are the top 10 misses who I will leave out...

Got to do our homework to fill our greatest need and then need some luck.

Good to read some common sense. Boyd's a player you can build a side around.
Create some excitement in the joint, and this notion of "Lets get Gumby" please!
Don't get me wrong I'm stoked with how Will is going, but I'd still trade for that pick with Will.
( know they won't go for it though)
I just don't want to sit here in 12 months still bemoaning our lack of a key forward.

[Remi Moses]

But what if they are good young men who train hard? :)

You mean quality young people, we'll keep bringing into the football club

[Greystache]

GWS could be very clever with a trade involving Minson or Griff + Pick 3 for Pick one.

They would then have Picks 3 and 10 and still need a quality defender among other things. If I were them, I'd then try to on-trade Pick 3 for a quality player plus their first round pick from a top eight side eg the Bombers. ie Pick 3 for player plus say pick 14.

I'd be more inclined to offer pick #3 and Minson in exchange for pick #1 and their second round pick (circa #20), we'd get the player we want and still have a hit at an elite kid to fill another need.

[Remi Moses]

What would Hawthorn do in this position? NB bold bit

They'd do it . They did with Croad ( remember the protest at the club):eek:
Got them Luke Hodge and Croad returned
Personally wouldn't Think Griff's in their thinking due to his age.

[bulldogtragic]

You mean quality young people, we'll keep bringing into the football club
Ah, I knew it was 'quality'. Good pick up Remi!

[Bulldog4life]

If I was the Hawks and about to lose Buddy, i would expect the number one draft pick.

That's not what I mean BAD. Buddy can go there as a FA. But the Hawks might still be able to put together a package of players to get the number 1 pick. They have a strong list.

[Dry Rot]

I'd be more inclined to offer pick #3 and Minson in exchange for pick #1 and their second round pick (circa #20), we'd get the player we want and still have a hit at an elite kid to fill another need.

Yep, like that and they probably wouldn't use that pick (20) anyway. Leaves them pick 3 to trade away again.

I'd do it.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd be more inclined to offer pick #3 and Minson in exchange for pick #1 and their second round pick (circa #20), we'd get the player we want and still have a hit at an elite kid to fill another need.
That's at least tempting.

[Maddog37]

But what if they are good young men who train hard? :)


Ths joke and it's variations ceased to be funny many moons ago. Time for some new material.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd want something else thrown in if we were giving away the AA ruckman for (effectively) pick 20.

[SlimPickens]

I'd want something else thrown in if we were giving away the AA ruckman for (effectively) pick 20.

The difference between 1 and 3 in this draft is quite glaring. If we want to try and get Boyd we are going to have to be bold and realistically Minson will offer the most currency. There is no way I'd trade Griffen.

Also Will isnt an AA ruckman yet.:p

[Dry Rot]

I'd want something else thrown in if we were giving away the AA ruckman for (effectively) pick 20.

If we're going to cut deep, then there's a whole lot of GWS picks at the start of each draft round they will not use.

[Dry Rot]

The difference between 1 and 3 in this draft is quite glaring.

Especially for us as compared with say the Dees.

[soupman]

The difference between 1 and 3 in this draft is quite glaring.

Not necessarily.

If Gws pick up Buddy then I reckon it's pretty unlikely they'll draft Boyd, and seeing as Melbourne surely couldn't then he falls to pick 3.

Pick 3 could very easily equal pick 1 for us, just with added stress and contingency plans. The flaw is that if someone else secures pick 1 then we are in trouble.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not necessarily.

If Gws pick up Buddy then I reckon it's pretty unlikely they'll draft Boyd, and seeing as Melbourne surely couldn't then he falls to pick 3.

Pick 3 could very easily equal pick 1 for us, just with added stress and contingency plans. The flaw is that if someone else secures pick 1 then we are in trouble.

Agreed.

It would be illogical for GWS to take Boyd if they secured Buddy, and Melbourne would be moronic to neglect their biggest need -- midfielders. The only thing Melbourne do have is KPFs.

We need a quality KPF, but let's not be irrational and reactive.

[bulldogtragic]

Not necessarily.

If Gws pick up Buddy then I reckon it's pretty unlikely they'll draft Boyd, and seeing as Melbourne surely couldn't then he falls to pick 3.

Pick 3 could very easily equal pick 1 for us, just with added stress and contingency plans. The flaw is that if someone else secures pick 1 then we are in trouble.
But they don't have to draft Boyd. They have the power to sell it to some other club who could. That's currency. If not us, they may sell it to another club who will 100% select him. I think we have to assume he's going pick 1, it's just who has it.

[soupman]

But they don't have to draft Boyd. They have the power to sell it to some other club who could. That's currency. If not us, they may sell it to another club who will 100% select him. I think we have to assume he's going pick 1, it's just who has it.

Yep, which brings about the next line of thinking.

GWS clearly don't want pick 1. They don't need it, so they may as well get a free upgrade.

That means the objecive of the trade offers to GWS isn't to convince them that they should part with pick 1, but rather that you have the best deal for pick 1.

If nobody else offers a quality mature age player (and lets face it how many are tradeable) then it comes down to the best pick plus good player combo. If we have pick 3 then we clearly have the best pick, so why can't pick 3 plus someone like Wood be enough? Unless a club comes in and trumps us with a real quality player we are in the box seat.

And the keener GWS are to keep a very high draft pick (say top 5) the better for us. Then we are competing with St.Kilda who have just as little tradeable talent on their list as us except a worse draft pick, and whoever finishes 14th.

[Dry Rot]

But they don't have to draft Boyd. They have the power to sell it to some other club who could. That's currency. If not us, they may sell it to another club who will 100% select him. I think we have to assume he's going pick 1, it's just who has it.

As that article states, it's fair to say Carlton is in the race, therefore Boyd won't be dropping to us at Pick 3.

It's trade for him, or miss out.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, which brings about the next line of thinking.

GWS clearly don't want pick 1. They don't need it, so they may as well get a free upgrade.

That means the objecive of the trade offers to GWS isn't to convince them that they should part with pick 1, but rather that you have the best deal for pick 1.

If nobody else offers a quality mature age player (and lets face it how many are tradeable) then it comes down to the best pick plus good player combo. If we have pick 3 then we clearly have the best pick, so why can't pick 3 plus someone like Wood be enough? Unless a club comes in and trumps us with a real quality player we are in the box seat.

And the keener GWS are to keep a very high draft pick (say top 5) the better for us. Then we are competing with St.Kilda who have just as little tradeable talent on their list as us except a worse draft pick, and whoever finishes 14th.
Ok. Lets assume Dogs, Aints and Lions want him. That's picks 3, 4 & 5. Without knowing the finer details of the top 5, I'd assume a top 5 pick is going to be talented. So that leaves all three clubs in the hunt. St Kilda don't really have too many names coming to mind who would command priority. Lions have Longer or Rich is theyre prepared to deal. If that occurred, I can only see Wilbur as a counter offer.

So the only conclusion I can guess is:

Giants: Pick 3 and Minson (so they get AA ruckman, AA full forward in Buddy and AA u/18 midfielder - that would tempt them at minimum)
Dogs: Picks 1 and 20 and any late rounders that GWS would pass on anyway (eg 4th and 5th rounders) (we get a once in a generation FF and another top 20 pick with late sweeteners, admitedly we have no ruck, but we could move Roughy there and trade for a KPB...)

If we are not prepared to do this, we are not even close to being in the hunt.

[Dry Rot]

Ok. Lets assume Dogs, Aints and Lions want him. That's picks 3, 4 & 5. Without knowing the finer details of the top 5, I'd assume a top 5 pick is going to be talented. So that leaves all three clubs in the hunt. St Kilda don't really have too many names coming to mind who would command priority. Lions have Longer or Rich is theyre prepared to deal. If that occurred, I can only see Wilbur as a counter offer.

So the only conclusion I can guess is:

Giants: Pick 3 and Minson
Dogs: Picks 1 and 20 and any late rounders that GWS would pass on anyway (eg 4th and 5th rounders)

If we are not prepared to do this, we are not even close to being in the hunt.

Agree with the above. Any other deals eg Pick 3 plus Wood or Higgins are just fantasy

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ok. Lets assume Dogs, Aints and Lions want him. That's picks 3, 4 & 5. Without knowing the finer details of the top 5, I'd assume a top 5 pick is going to be talented. So that leaves all three clubs in the hunt. St Kilda don't really have too many names coming to mind who would command priority. Lions have Longer or Rich is theyre prepared to deal. If that occurred, I can only see Wilbur as a counter offer.

So the only conclusion I can guess is:

Giants: Pick 3 and Minson (so they get AA ruckman, AA full forward in Buddy and AA u/18 midfielder - that would tempt them at minimum)
Dogs: Picks 1 and 20 and any late rounders that GWS would pass on anyway (eg 4th and 5th rounders) (we get a once in a generation FF and another top 20 pick with late sweeteners, admitedly we have no ruck, but we could move Roughy there and trade for a KPB...)

If we are not prepared to do this, we are not even close to being in the hunt.

If we parted with Minson, can Ayce become our ruck option? We wouldnt need to waste everyones time with him down forward as we would have Boyd

[bulldogtragic]

If we parted with Minson, can Ayce become our ruck option? We wouldnt need to waste everyones time with him down forward as we would have Boyd
Creates options. Not sure who would get the best defenders Boyd, Jones or Ayce. Ayce or Roughy would be the obvious replacements for Wilbur, perhaps that leaves us one tall short down back. If needed we trade for a KPB. Shifting the deck chairs a little, but if you believe the hype, our future success could start and end with Boyd.

P.s. - I'm not yet saying do it, but I am saying think about it as this is the only way it's ever going to happen.

[bornadog]

Creates options. Not sure who would get the best defenders Boyd, Jones or Ayce. Ayce or Roughy would be the obvious replacements for Wilbur, perhaps that leaves us one tall short down back. If needed we trade for a KPB. Shifting the deck chairs a little, but if you believe the hype, our future success could start and end with Boyd.

P.s. - I'm not yet saying do it, but I am saying think about it as this is the only way it's ever going to happen.

No thanks. Took ten years of development to get Minson where he is. I don't want to wait ten years to see Boyd get there. (maybe)

[LostDoggy]

I'd be horrified if we traded Griffen or Minson to upgrade a pick for Boyd, especially if we gave away pick 3 or 4 also.

Those two, in their current form and age, can be there when we hopefully push for the finals in the next three/four years time. They're basically AA pick number 1's in their own right and any team pushing for a GF currently would give us the kitchen sink two get either.

If we gave one of them and a early DP for Tom Boyd we'd be shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic. Who the hell is going to get the ball to him for the next 3 or 4 years?

[bulldogtragic]

Articles:

"POTENTIAL number one draft pick Tom Boyd further enhanced his credentials with a six-goal haul for Vic Metro on Sunday.

Metro was too good for NSW/ACT Rams at Visy Park in the second round of the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships, winning 20.12 (132) to 9.8 (62) and Boyd was important in setting up the victory.

The strong-marking forward booted his six goals in the first three quarters before sitting out the final term ahead of Metro's vital game against Western Australia next Saturday in Perth.

At 199cm and 102kg Boyd is the best available key forward of this year's NAB AFL Draft and underlined his talent by playing imposing football against NSW/ACT. The 17-year-old ran hard and marked cleanly above his head and in packs, and fought for the ball at ground level.

The Eastern Ranges big man might even have been pushing double figures if not for a couple of wayward shots at goal."


"He has always been serious about footy, and has regularly been a captain through junior levels, often worrying about his teammates, what they're doing and how they could be getting better."



"Tom Boyd (Eastern Ranges)

Height: 199cm
Weight: 102kg
Player Comparison: Josh Kennedy/Matthew Kreuzer in full flight.
Style: Jonathan Brown
Strengths: Marking, Agility and Kicking.
Weaknesses: Mentality when being niggled"



""What Tom's done more than most is prepared himself to play AFL footy now," Parkin said.

"He's been concentrating on getting his body and mind right for the last six months to be ready for it.

"That's not arrogance; Tom knows he's going to be selected to play AFL footy."

Where Patton played with a pack-splitting, bash-and-crash mentality, Boyd has operated as more of a lead-up target for the Ranges.

The former Norwood junior has put plenty of work into developing his body with Ranges high performance manager Sean Murphy, and it shows.

At 199cm and 102kg, Boyd is built like an '80s action movie henchman bearing more than a slight resemblance to Dolph Lundgren and having the distinct appearance of a grown man among the more spindly lads of the TAC Cup.

He lists his own strengths as marking and goal-kicking handy attributes for a forward to have.

Despite his obvious physical gifts, Parkin said Boyd's biggest strength came from above his shoulders."



The more I read, the more I get exited. Imagine him in the tri colours with Griffen bursting through the centre hitting him on the chest 30m out...

[bornadog]

I'd be horrified if we traded Griffen or Minson to upgrade a pick for Boyd, especially if we gave away pick 3 or 4 also.

Those two, in their current form and age, can be there when we hopefully push for the finals in the next three/four years time. They're basically AA pick number 1's in their own right and any team pushing for a GF currently would give us the kitchen sink two get either.

If we gave one of them and a early DP for Tom Boyd we'd be shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic. Who the hell is going to get the ball to him for the next 3 or 4 years?

I see someone has some sense here.

[Greystache]

I see someone has some sense here.

Sense because they agree with you :rolleyes:

Too bad if other people want to have an opinion.

[bulldogtragic]

I see someone has some sense here.
Yep. I can't imagine what Hawthorn was doing trading Croad for a number one pick which was for their eventual captain (who is the best AFL captain), spiritual leader and one if their most important players and one of my personal favourites to boot....

Risk/reward.

[Remi Moses]

I see someone has some sense here.

Will 's in his late 20's .
By the time his 35 we'll be ready for finals.
He's currently rucking 95 % of games, so how long will he last?
I wouldn't trade Griffen or our picks in last years draft, or Libba.
We can't fawn over our players, and we keep being told this is a business.

[bulldogtragic]

If we did the deal, could we snare a ruckman with pick 20. Vardy etc.

[lemmon]

The Saints are a dark horse here, pick 4 and a 24 year old Mcevoy gets it done. As does a pick 5 and Luenberger. Minson is the better player now but either of those two guys are the perfect age for GWS list

Apologies for the butchering of the names

[lemmon]

If we did the deal, could we snare a ruckman with pick 20. Vardy etc.

I don't agree with trading Minson but for arguments sake Minson and pick 3 for Giles and pick 1?

[chef]

No thanks. Took ten years of development to get Minson where he is. I don't want to wait ten years to see Boyd get there. (maybe)

If Boyd's as god as everyone's saying it's not going to take him ten years to start impacting games.

[azabob]

The Saints are a dark horse here, pick 4 and a 24 year old Mcevoy gets it done. As does a pick 5 and Luenberger. Minson is the better player now but either of those two guys are the perfect age for GWS list

Apologies for the butchering of the names

I don't think lions will trade - I am certain Luenburger singed a new deal a week or so back.
Saints on the other hand have a massive chance.

[Remi Moses]

Stkilda and Brisbane have waifer thin mid depth though.
Not sure the Saints would trade Mcevoy to be honest.
Going to depend if GWS want a ruck in his prime or a ruck who hasn't developed yet.
Stkilda really only have two mids approaching their prime and the rest are at the back end of their careers.

[Dry Rot]

I'd be horrified if we traded Griffen or Minson to upgrade a pick for Boyd, especially if we gave away pick 3 or 4 also.

Those two, in their current form and age, can be there when we hopefully push for the finals in the next three/four years time.

Neither will be there for us when we are a genuine finals contender - that will take years.

[lemmon]

The Blues trade Kreuzer then? If I were GWS I'd want a guy who will be around and firing when they are ready to challenge...its the same reason some of our supporters are okay with giving up Minson isn't it?

[bulldogtragic]

I don't agree with trading Minson but for arguments sake Minson and pick 3 for Giles and pick 1?
Is Giles better than pick 20?
Could we get a Vardy etc with pick 20?

If we could secure Boyd and a Vardy/Giles (etc) type and keep pick 22 for our first rounder and Minno. I wouldn't be filthy. Upset to lose Minno, but excited to get two talented big men we can build a premiership team around.

[lemmon]

Is Giles better than pick 20?
Could we get a Vardy etc with pick 20?

If we could secure Boyd and a Vardy/Giles (etc) type and keep pick 22 for our first rounder and Minno. I wouldn't be filthy. Upset to lose Minno, but excited to get two talented big men we can build a premiership team around.

Giles at least keeps us competitive in the ruck next year, Vardy is all potential no performance. I don't agree with any of this mind you, would rather hang onto what we have and draft a good kid even if his name doesn't happen to be Tom Boyd. I'd rather scrap around and win 6 or 7 games next year, contribute somewhat to a winning culture, and develop using the little experience we have rather than go down the route of selling what little we have with currency for potential and finishing next year with 3 wins. Just stinks of Jack with his magic beans.

We will be losing 5 or 6 old guys over the next few years anyway, if we sell what little we have in the way of maturity we are going to be even further up shit creek.

[Remi Moses]

Yes and we win 6 games a crap load of forward 50's and no big key forward.
Please don't serve up Gumbleton because we'll sit here in 12 months time frustrated as ever.

[The Underdog]

Yes and we win 6 games a crap load of forward 50's and no big key forward.
Please don't serve up Gumbleton because we'll sit here in 12 months time frustrated as ever.

If we're picking Boyd for improvement in the next 12 months then we're deluded. He'll take minimum 3 years to be a no 1 forward. GWS also aren't going to want picks, they need mature bodies now.
They've got enough kids that they could essentially skip a draft.

[lemmon]

Yes and we win 6 games a crap load of forward 50's and no big key forward.
Please don't serve up Gumbleton because we'll sit here in 12 months time frustrated as ever.

I'm not sure what kind of impact you expect from an 18 year old? He isn't going to be a quick fix. My point is I don't want to sell the farm to get him, before Tom Boyd there was Jesse Hogan, before him there was Joe Daniher, before him there was Cameron, Patton, Darling, Butcher, Watts, Hawkins, Gumbleton etc etc

I'm sure there will be another hyped tall forward next year who is the next Under 18 goal kicking phenomena and the guy to replicate Lockett. If we miss out it isn't the end of the world. I fully admit I don't watch these guys at under 18 level but year after year there is the same hype around the next one.

If we don't get Tom Boyd hopefully we get the 2014 version, if we miss out on him perhaps we get the Kurt Tippett (pick 32), the Jack Riewoldt (pick 13) or the Taylor Walker (scholarship)

[The Underdog]

I'm not sure what kind of impact you expect from an 18 year old? He isn't going to be a quick fix. My point is I don't want to sell the farm to get him, before Tom Boyd there was Jesse Hogan, before him there was Joe Daniher, before him there was Cameron, Patton, Darling, Butcher, Watts, Hawkins, Gumbleton etc etc

I'm sure there will be another hyped tall forward next year who is the next Under 18 goal kicking phenomena and the guy to replicate Lockett. If we miss out it isn't the end of the world. I fully admit I don't watch these guys at under 18 level but year after year there is the same hype around the next one.

If we don't get Tom Boyd hopefully we get the 2014 version, if we miss out on him perhaps we get the Kurt Tippett (pick 32), the Jack Riewoldt (pick 13) or the Taylor Walker (scholarship)

There's the irony, Boyd is Scott Gumbleton 5 years later. See how that worked out.

[FrediKanoute]

I'd be more inclined to offer pick #3 and Minson in exchange for pick #1 and their second round pick (circa #20), we'd get the player we want and still have a hit at an elite kid to fill another need.

Yep, this for mine is the best chance we have. Griffin is about the only untouchable, mainly because he will be the next captain of the club.

I would hate to trade Minson given we are just getting a reward for him, but if Boyd is that good......you only have to look at the Saints and how they build a team around Le Sook or Brisbane around Brown. Guys like this do not come around often.

The only caveat is free agency. What is the risk of drafting Boyd, putting 7 years into him and then having him leave just when we are challenging? Is maybe the answer that given where our list is now we should chase some of the guys coming up for Free agency. effectively adopting a "hunter" strategy rather than a "nurturer" strategy.

[soupman]

Yep. I can't imagine what Hawthorn was doing trading Croad for a number one pick which was for their eventual captain (who is the best AFL captain), spiritual leader and one if their most important players and one of my personal favourites to boot....

Risk/reward.

Losing Croad and McPharlin for picks 1, 20 and 36 is a bit different to us losing Minson or Griffen for a 2 pick upgrade.


Yes and we win 6 games a crap load of forward 50's and no big key forward.
Please don't serve up Gumbleton because we'll sit here in 12 months time frustrated as ever.

Has nobody here watched Melbourne these last 5 years (tbh i wouldn't blame you). They are what happens when you have a squad of players with potential and no mature leaders or performers around them except for Brad Green and Nathan Jones.

Griffen and Minson are the only two leaders on our list that are best 22 and won't retire by 2015. Thats right, just the two of them. They also happen to be our best 2 players, and by a long way. Would we trade Griffen/Minson and pick 3 for anybody outside of Buddy, Cloke and Hawkins? No way.

So what elevates Tom Boyd to the status of the 4 most valuable players in the world that we would trade for? There have been plenty of absolute sure things in the underage competitions that haven't eventuated. He isn't even the best player from his draft pool, Hogan and Martin are both rated higher than him.

I'm all for getting Tom Boyd, or any other future star key forward we can find. Just not at the expense of one of the two players we are going to rely on to carry the side through the next couple of years. Minson and Griffen will be our best two players these next couple of years, the leaders of the club and are two of our most loyal. You don't get rid of that for an 18 year old, no matter how good he may look like becoming. Especially when the benefit of losing Griffen or Minson is that instead of getting a potential elite key forward we only get a potential elite midfielder, it's not like key forward is the only hole we have in our soon to be dominant list.

[lemmon]

^^Hear hear, put it better than I ever could

[Dry Rot]

Perhaps we should state our view of our current tall forwards, as this IMO affects how we look at this.

For me, Jones and Cordy are dud forwards, Redpath looks like he won't make it and the jury is out on Roberts. Therefore, I reckon get Boyd to bolster the worst KPF stocks in the league.

However, if you have the opposite view then you don't think there is a KPF problem with us and probably wouldn't like the risk and want to keep picks and players.

[lemmon]

Perhaps we should state our view of our current tall forwards, as this IMO affects how we look at this.

For me, Jones and Cordy are dud forwards, Redpath looks like he won't make it and the jury is out on Roberts. Therefore, I reckon get Boyd to bolster the worst KPF stocks in the league.

However, if you have the opposite view then you don't think there is a KPF problem with us and probably wouldn't like the risk and want to keep picks and players.

Its not even that, I fully agree we lack key forwards. I also believe we have a hole in senior players...and outside mids...and ruckmen after Minson...and key backs. If we trade Minson we need to not only find a ruckman to replace him but also a senior player to guide the kids and provide not only a semblance of competitiveness but leadership. We are going to lose Gia, Boyd, Murph, Morris, Cross etc very shortly.

Next year we may very well may have Griff as captain and Minson as vice with virtually nothing below them except an out of 22 Picken and a permanently injured Higgins and Williams

[Dry Rot]

Its not even that, I fully agree we lack key forwards. I also believe we have a hole in senior players...and outside mids...and ruckmen after Minson...and key backs. If we trade Minson we need to not only find a ruckman to replace him but also a senior player to guide the kids and provide not only a semblance of competitiveness but leadership. We are going to lose Gia, Boyd, Murph, Morris, Cross etc very shortly.

Next year we may very well may have Griff as captain and Minson as vice with virtually nothing below them except an out of 22 Picken and a permanently injured Higgins and Williams

I can see what you saying. The alternative is just to sit in the bottom 4 accumulating good draft picks for a few years.

Anyone know much about talls in next years' draft? We'll be finishing bottom two in 2014 so we'll have a good crack again next year.

[LostDoggy]

Losing Croad and McPharlin for picks 1, 20 and 36 is a bit different to us losing Minson or Griffen for a 2 pick upgrade.



Has nobody here watched Melbourne these last 5 years (tbh i wouldn't blame you). They are what happens when you have a squad of players with potential and no mature leaders or performers around them except for Brad Green and Nathan Jones.

Griffen and Minson are the only two leaders on our list that are best 22 and won't retire by 2015. Thats right, just the two of them. They also happen to be our best 2 players, and by a long way. Would we trade Griffen/Minson and pick 3 for anybody outside of Buddy, Cloke and Hawkins? No way.

So what elevates Tom Boyd to the status of the 4 most valuable players in the world that we would trade for? There have been plenty of absolute sure things in the underage competitions that haven't eventuated. He isn't even the best player from his draft pool, Hogan and Martin are both rated higher than him.

I'm all for getting Tom Boyd, or any other future star key forward we can find. Just not at the expense of one of the two players we are going to rely on to carry the side through the next couple of years. Minson and Griffen will be our best two players these next couple of years, the leaders of the club and are two of our most loyal. You don't get rid of that for an 18 year old, no matter how good he may look like becoming. Especially when the benefit of losing Griffen or Minson is that instead of getting a potential elite key forward we only get a potential elite midfielder, it's not like key forward is the only hole we have in our soon to be dominant list.

This post needs to be pinned somehow.

[anfo27]

We need Tom Boyd there is no doubt about that. Pick 3 will be enough to get him in the draft as i agree with Remi here that GWS is all smoke & mirrors & don't really intend to trade pick 1. Unless there is an offer too good to refuse which i can't see happening because who wants to be traded to a club who will not win a game this year? unless your getting a truck full of money!
Talk of trading Griffen for a 2 pick upgrade is close to the most ridiculous thing i've heard. Minson on the other hand i would entertain if we get their 2nd round pick back. Again i think GWS are trying to bluff us into giving them something for nothing.
Would like Jonathan Marsh with that 2nd pick, would he last that long?

[boydogs]

Why is this either Higgins, Wood or Cooney & pick 3 for pick 1, or giving up Griffen or Minson? Couldn't we look at Roughead or Jones?

[bulldogtragic]

Why is this either Higgins, Wood or Cooney & pick 3 for pick 1, or giving up Griffen or Minson? Couldn't we look at Roughead or Jones?
GWS would not be interested.

[bulldogsman]

I can see what you saying. The alternative is just to sit in the bottom 4 accumulating good draft picks for a few years.

Anyone know much about talls in next years' draft? We'll be finishing bottom two in 2014 so we'll have a good crack again next year.

McCartin looked good as a KPF the other day in the champs. Goddard was a key forward in the U16's and was a gun. This might be the better option. Draft some good runners this year and wait till next year to get a KPF.

[boydogs]

GWS would not be interested.

Who would you take from:

Pick 3 & Roughead
Pick 4 & McEvoy
Pick 5 & Leuenberger
Pick 9 & Kreuzer

[Bulldog Revolution]

IMO we are in the box seat for Boyd

Melbourne dont need him with Hogan, Clark and Dawes

The Saints could trump with McEvoy and #5 but like us if we traded Minson they would then have no ruck man - unless you count Hickey

If we trade #3 we then need a sweetener that interests GWS - I dont think the two position up grade will fetch as much as people are speculating. We still have to satisfy them, but it wont take Minson or Griffen and pick 3 because I cant see us doing that.

[LostDoggy]

I don't agree with trading Minson but for arguments sake Minson and pick 3 for Giles and pick 1?

You can't sugar coat it. Vlad has basically handed GWS all the cards. We are sitting at a table low on chips, with three other desperate players against a guy holding a nut flush. Have to overbid the pot or fold.

Best way to look at this deal is to imagine the dogs have pick 1 with the potential to draft a forward we don't really need. Cats, Adelaide, Saints all need to trade with us.

We would make all of them bid off until the most desperate paid overs. There is no fair trade here. If we decide Boyd is all that and the bucket of chicken them Minno or Roughy + Pick 3 for 1 and a less needed mid at their end is as good as I see it getting.

I still think we'll get outbid. And I'm pretty sure Minno woul have gone last year if he had wanted too.

[bulldogtragic]

Who would you take from:

Pick 3 & Roughead
Pick 4 & McEvoy
Pick 5 & Leuenberger
Pick 9 & Kreuzer
I think it will need to be a ruckman, a good one at it. Trying to be objective I would rank the deals accordingly:

1. Bulldogs - Pick 3 & Minson
2. Brisbane - Pick 5 & Leuenberger
3. Carlton - Pick 9 & Kruezer
4. St. Kilda - Pick 4 & McEvoy

If I was the clubs, I would band together on their offers and demand pick 20 come back. Giving up a quality ruckman for a few spots is way, way over. A little compo would be desirable.

[wimberga]

What about keeping pick 3 and using our second rounder for someone like Marsh? would that be possible?

[bornadog]

Sense because they agree with you :rolleyes:

Too bad if other people want to have an opinion.

Who says they can't have an opinion?:confused::confused:

[kruder]

Why wasn't it operation get Jesse Hogan? Could someone point out to me what Jones and Cordy showed last year that didn't emphasize we need a forward badly? Why now?

[kruder]

Why wasn't it operation get Jesse Hogan? Could someone point out to me what Jones and Cordy showed last year that didn't emphasize we need a forward badly? Why now?

The dogs will get either Scharenberg or Kelly both excellent prospects.

[GVGjr]

If Boyd's as god as everyone's saying it's not going to take him ten years to start impacting games.

I suppose whoever drafted him might need to allow for the same time period that Hawkins took to settle in.