Game Day - R12 Collingwood V Western Bulldogs

[Eastdog]

Dogs by 7 points
BOG: Ryan Griffen
First Goal: Jake Stringer

[LostDoggy]

I don't know why, but I feel a strong sense of optimism in the air.
Dogs by 9 Points (again)
BOG Libba
First Goal Dahlhaus

[Greystache]

Dogs by 10 points
First goal- Stringer
BOG- Griffen

[Ghost Dog]

Bullish Greystache!
I've picked us for an upset as well.
The break might help us catch a few punters off guard.
GO DOGS by a goal
BOG Griffasaurus
First Goal - JJ dashing down from Half back

[LostDoggy]

The first ten minutes of this game is going to dictate the result.

Heart says: Doggies by 12.
Head says: Collingwood by 78.
BOG Minson
First goal: Bobby

[NoName]

Bulldogs by 11 points
BOG: Griff
First Goal: Jones

[Go_Dogs]

Dogs by 27 points
BOG Cooney
First goal Jones

[bornadog]

Collingwood 27 points

BOG: Griffen

First Goal Dahl

[KT31]

Pie's by 35pts
BOG - Big Will
FG- Strnger

[AndrewP6]

Pies by 33.
BOG Griff
First goal LJ

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Pies by 8 goals.
BOG: Griff
First goal: Dahlhaus

[F'scary]

I'm in for an upset too.

Dogs by 18
BOG: Big Will
First Goal: STRINGER

STRINGER TO KICK 6

[bornadog]

Guess who is sub..... yes....Super sub Gia

[Greystache]

Guess who is sub..... yes....Super sub Gia

Good decision. It would have been tempting to make Cooney the sub to ease him in, but Gia has been outstanding in that role and is more likely to have an impact coming on later in the game.

[Doggy]

Luke Ball out
Adam Oxley in

[bornadog]

Luke Ball out
Adam Oxley in

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/24805BPThe-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excell.jpg (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/mmsalih/media/24805BPThe-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excell.jpg.html)

[bornadog]

Boys getting ready here (https://vine.co/v/hBhp6ZgM1XY)

[bornadog]

First time Cooney, Boyd and Griffen in the same team this year.

[MrMahatma]

I'm predicting pain today. Hope we show some heart throughout and decent transition at times.

[Ghost Dog]

Good to see Lower go straight to the middle and get in their faces.
Not in our forward 50 yet.

[Eastdog]

Need to use the footy better going forward. A lot of our possessions are in our defensive 50.

[Mofra]

Managed to get Collingwood playing the game on our terms, no reward as yet.
Interesting strategy.

[MrMahatma]

Horrible attempt at shepherd by Boyd lets swan off the leish and pies goal.

[comrade]

Is Cooney unfit or does he just not give a toss?

[comrade]

Boyd showing Swan no respect. This won't end well.

[Eastdog]

Managed to get Collingwood playing the game on our terms, no reward as yet.
Interesting strategy.

We have been able to get a lot of the pill but have done crap with it.

[AndrewP6]

Is Cooney unfit or does he just not give a toss?

Looks to be carrying something to me.

[MrMahatma]

I reckon we're a better team without Boyd.

[The Pie Man]

Is Cooney unfit or does he just not give a toss?

I watched* Adam Cooney for a few minutes before that OOTF and he was spent. Just ambled after the footy on the flank, then leant right back on that kick.

Concerning

*scored an unlikely Medallion Club seat for this...looks like a long night ahead

[Eastdog]

Need to get a stronger tag on Swan.

[AndrewP6]

What a shock, our skills and execution are terrible:rolleyes:

[The Pie Man]

Switched Picken & Addison around. Presume some will be happy with that

[Eastdog]

What a shock, our skills and execution are terrible:rolleyes:

It is just killing us. Very frustrating but what can we do.

[Mofra]

We have been able to get a lot of the pill but have done crap with it.
Tells me we have the gameplan and the intent but not the cattle to execute it - seems to be the story of our year.

[bornadog]

This is going to get ugly.

[Ghost Dog]

Ordinary disposal. Swan getting it his own way.

[Mantis]

Tells me we have the gameplan and the intent but not the cattle to execute it - seems to be the story of our year.

Kicking the ball sideways isn't a great idea considering how bad our footy skills are.

Kick, kick, kick, turnover... Repeat.

[Eastdog]

Need to lift our intensity and use the ball a lot better. We are one of the worst at it. Playing far to defensive.

[Scorlibo]

I'd give anything to have Cross out there at the moment to show them a clean pair of mitts.

[chef]

Boyd showing Swan no respect. This won't end well.

Yep, this never ends well

[AndrewP6]

It is just killing us. Very frustrating but what can we do.

It's been woeful for a long time. We need to do something.

[Eastdog]

77% of our disposals have been in the back half of the ground. No wonder we can't score.

[Scorlibo]

They just replayed Dane Swan's centre, Boyd was absolutely terrible in that contest, literally stopped on the spot and left Coons to deal with the situation.

[ReLoad]

I think that was one of the worst quarters of footy we have played for a while, I like the game plan to hold onto it and absorb, but our skills are appalling, 3 OOF from no pressure kicks from our best players......

Any chance our project to clone Lindsay Gilbee has matured? We seriously need a decent half back flanker.

[bulldogtragic]

This is a mid ladder team with 8 major injuries and the non playing of Ball and Didak. What does this say when we're not playing other average teams. The last few weeks have wall papered over the cracks. But I guess this is all about development and all that stuff.

[Mantis]

They just replayed Dane Swan's centre, Boyd was absolutely terrible in that contest, literally stopped on the spot and left Coons to deal with the situation.

Yep, he should have applied a shepherd or ran to support.

[The Pie Man]

Kicking the ball sideways isn't a great idea considering how bad our footy skills are.

Kick, kick, kick, turnover... Repeat.

We are addicted to the half back flank. I rarely get a chance at an elevated view of the game like today, and it exposes our lack of forward movement...which is frustrating when you can see there are options to go to up the ground

[Ghost Dog]

Pickens, not working in forward line. Too easy for them to score. Great goal griff. Boyd is a liability today. 44%. Better off he doesn't get it.

[Eastdog]

If we don't do something now this will be 100 points.

[comrade]

Our disposal is breaking down under the Pies pressure.

We need to find a way to move the ball through the middle. Spotting up forward targets just isn't possible for this team so we give the ball back.

Boyd and Cooney look short of a run.

[MrMahatma]

A holding the ball decision wouldn't go astray.

[Eastdog]

Do you think the bye has affected us. The floodgates have already opened :(

[Greystache]

Boyd is a liability not a captain.

We'll be a better team when he is gone

[Ghost Dog]

Boyd embarrassing. Scrubbing kicks.

[comrade]

Boyd lets Dwyer kick the easiest of goals.

Doesn't give a shit about anyone else's game but his own.

[bulldogtragic]

Do you think the bye has affected us. The floodgates have already opened :(
Don't blame the bye. We've had these problem all year.

[The Pie Man]

That was one of the more clear in the backs against Maxwell I've ever seen not paid. Costs us a goal less than a minute later

[SlimPickens]

Boyd is a liability!

[Mantis]

So glad Markovic got another game.

[bulldogtragic]

Boyd is a liability not a captain.

We'll be a better team when he is gone
Two things. History will show Gia was robbed of the captaincy. Two, will Boyd take the hint and retire at years end?

[Eastdog]

Don't blame the bye. We've had these problem all year.

Your right it is no excuse. We are just not good enough.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Not one element of our game today has been even close to AFL standard. There is a fair amount of work to do over the next couple of years to start to address the obvious shortcomings of our playing list. Need to cut very deep again at the end of this year, which will lead to more pain in the short term.

[Ghost Dog]

In a way, we need this. Our weaknesses need to be laid bare. youth is an excuse, but.....koby Stevens, 20 out. Miss. Addison, miss two easy ones. Awful.

[bulldogtragic]

Not one element of our game today has been even close to AFL standard. There is a fair amount of work to do over the next couple of years to start to address the obvious shortcomings of our playing list. Need to cut very deep again at the end of this year, which will lead to more pain in the short term.
I can name about ten movements at years end. Going to get worse before it gets better....

[ReLoad]

jeez we are making them look good.

Worst game ever, bunch of pea hearts.

[Eastdog]

Really thought we would of shown more fight today. We have shown nothing.

[The Pie Man]

Liam Jones may need to play 2nd ruck to justify playing senior football

I'm a fan, but halves like this aren't an isolated case

[Eastdog]

Go Jake!

[F'scary]

Well, at least we are winning one of the key stats. One that begins with the letter C.

CLANGERS :eek:

[Ghost Dog]

Pies have almost the same number of possessions. But a 50 point lead.

[Eastdog]

Pies have almost the same number of possessions. But a 50 point lead.

What have we been doing with the footy.

[chef]

Cooney looks like he's going through the motions.

[F'scary]

What have we been doing with the footy.

See my comment above.

[The Underdog]

Cooney looks like he's going through the motions.

Lake-esque.

[Greystache]

Two things. History will show Gia was robbed of the captaincy. Two, will Boyd take the hint and retire at years end?

Not a chance, if you asked him he'd say he's our most important player. That's why he won't defend, shepherd, or play anything resembling team footy, that's for less important players to do.

[chef]

Lake-esque.

That's what I was thinking, not really a bad thing if we get an extra pick for him.

[Greystache]

Cooney looks like he's going through the motions.

I'd sub him out at half time.

[comrade]

Cooney needs a massive bake. I can handle blokes like Marko making mistakes but I won't cope a bloke as well compensated as Cooney moping around.

[bulldogtragic]

25, 53....

God I hope the players and coaches do something. On track for 80 point deficit at here qtr and over 100 at the end. What happened to the hope of us and the media causing an upset today....

[ReLoad]

Lake-esque.

And TBH I dont think I would be upset. Interesting thing is though that he isnt doing himself many favour for a potential suitot.

We need to let him go as part of Free agency not trade him, the compo we would get would be excellent as their formula is stuffed, #1 draft pick, Brownlow medalist, we would be looking at a top 5 pick at least.

[Dog54]

Can't blame the youth today they have just as many younger players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Pretty disappointing. Not AFL standard that half on any level. If it wasn't for Murphy and Griffen, we would be even worse, which is hard to imagine right now.

Ball handling, decision making and of course our skill level has been as bad as I have ever seen it. Our defensive structures are still ordinary, particularly around stoppages. Continually allow them to have one free man out the back which inevitably sets up their spread with painful regularity.

Markovic is deplorable and I shook my head the moment I read he was back in the lineup. No point having a bloke who can theoretically be the second ruck/forward option if he cannot even resemble the image of an adequate role player on the field. It's a pointless exercise playing him, and it's probably time to throw Jones into this role given he has regular games with very few touches. He needs to add another string to his bow, otherwise he'll struggle to make it.

Talia has made some good spoils/tackles and seems to find a bit of the ball, but unlike two weeks ago, his skill level has been disgraceful. I'm not sure he's had more than one or two effective kicks?

Cooney looks absolutely awful. His efforts have been downright pathetic on a couple of occasions, his disposal has been equally as bad. He doesn't look right, and I am not sure why we are persisting with him down back. He's not applying any defensive pressure, he's coughed up goals and he's turning the ball over when he does get it from an attacking perspective. Should be moved forward.

Aside from Murphy and Griffen, we are totally bereft of the ability to handle the ball cleanly, make good decisions and execute.

[Mantis]

25, 53....

God I hope the players and coaches do something. On track for 80 point deficit at here qtr and over 100 at the end. What happened to the hope of us and the media causing an upset today....

They were obviously all delusional.

[Scorlibo]

Dumb coaching. Play Cooney in the middle, where he belongs. Gia is a good sub because he's a great player, GET HIM OFF THE BENCH. Daniel Cross still in the reserves. Liberatore only plays well when Boyd's not playing his role, yet there's no sign of the coaches trying to make that work. Everywhere I look I'm disgusted with coaching decisions.

[bulldogtragic]

Not a chance, if you asked him he'd say he's our most important player. That's why he won't defend, shepherd, or play anything resembling team footy, that's for less important players to do.
My thoughts too GS. Makes you wonder what the kids are thinking in games like this. I imagine they look to the captain for how to act of field. If that's the example, perhaps this should not be as surprising.

[The Underdog]

That was an absolutely dispiriting half of footy, almost no upside. We move the ball so slowly, we don't reward guys who work to get free, to the point where we seem to stop trying to. We need pace & skill. Hrovat should be playing just for the fact he hit's targets. Markovic should not be playing, at all. Boydy, well I think it's all been said, but it ain't a new problem.

[bulldogtragic]

Lake-esque.
Fine by me. He's wasted over the next few years anyway.

[FrediKanoute]

53 points down at half time. On 3 occasions we have missed very gettable goals (4 if you could the Picken free kick not given) and they have taken the ball down and kicked a goal. That is 36-48 points which we have thrown away.

Also, can anyone tell me what value Marcovic as a forward brings?

[Dog54]

Strategically we could offer Cooney a poor contract so he is forced into free agency and we take the compo pick?

[LostDoggy]

Boyd is a liability not a captain.

We'll be a better team when he is gone

We are a better team without him, they worked well when was out.

[The Underdog]

Fine by me. He's wasted over the next few years anyway.

I didn't necessarily mean I wanted to see the back of him, I'd prefer he stayed, but he seems to choose when he wants to go in a way that Lake used to at his worst.

Also can I ask why we're playing a loose man back when we can't *!*!*!*!ing score?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Boyd's decline has been rapid.

I know he's always had his flaws, but from what I've seen this year, unless he's carrying an injury he looks like a player who should retire at year's end.

[bulldogtragic]

Dumb coaching. Play Cooney in the middle, where he belongs. Gia is a good sub because he's a great player, GET HIM OFF THE BENCH. Daniel Cross still in the reserves. Liberatore only plays well when Boyd's not playing his role, yet there's no sign of the coaches trying to make that work. Everywhere I look I'm disgusted with coaching decisions.
My thoughts on the coach are known. But I want very much to be proven wrong by him. But I just don't see it. Games like today don't help. I guess it's him who has to justify it to the powers that be.

[ReLoad]

Strategically we could offer Cooney a poor contract so he is forced into free agency and we take the compo pick?

The compensation is also based on what contract we offer him, so its important for it not to be peanuts.

[bulldogtragic]

We are a better team without him, they worked well when was out.
Libba is a much better player without him. The output of Libba and another mid is much higher than Boyd and a restricted Libba. Moot point. He's captain and a nice bloke so nothing will happen.

[LostDoggy]

Libba is a much better player without him. The output of Libba and another mid is much higher than Boyd and a restricted Libba. Moot point. He's captain and a nice bloke so nothing will happen.

Bloody bang on BT!
I was going to mention I think Libba lifts without Boyd.

[FrediKanoute]

Agree on Boyd. As a player he has always had his limitations. Still has something to offer the team, but the on ball baton needs to be passed.

[ratsmac]

I reckon we're a better team without Boyd.

this is a terrible thing to say but i am 100% behind you. His skills aren't even VFL grade

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Boyd's decline has been rapid.

I know he's always had his flaws, but from what I've seen this year, unless he's carrying an injury he looks like a player who should retire at year's end.

His output since he gained the captaincy has been increasingly poor. I recall a guy who in his day was a hard worker both ways, who played within his limitations to great team effect. I hope his standing as a club stalwart isn't damaged by his declining years.

[LostDoggy]

Agree on Boyd. As a player he has always had his limitations. Still has something to offer the team, but the on ball baton needs to be passed.

What FK? Doesn't work hard, doesn't set an example, seems to be a turn over machine and maybe the worst defensive player in the league.

[ratsmac]

why is Markovic playing? we are 17 when he is on the ground

[bulldogtragic]

Well 'only' 51 points down. Could be worse...

[chef]

Thank god for Griffen.

[Eastdog]

Well 'only' 51 points down. Could be worse...

Probably wont be 100. Did a little better in that quarter.

[bornadog]

Cooney looks like he's going through the motions.

What the F is he doing in the backline - Macca get him out of there.

[ratsmac]

thank god for griffen.

super star!!

[bornadog]

Changes needed and needed badly.

Not up to AFL standard:

Markovic and Addison.

Boyd, what the hell is he doing??? Is he passed it.

Picken a big concern as well. Dahl well he can't get the ball? Stevens, one good game this year.

We are in deep shite.

[Eastdog]

Changes needed and needed badly.

Not up to AFL standard:

Markovic and Addison.

Boyd, what the hell is he doing??? Is he passed it.

Picken a big concern as well. Dahl well he can't get the ball? Stevens, one good game this year.

We are in deep shite.

Gia I think can be useful to help and guide our youngsters.

[FrediKanoute]

What FK? Doesn't work hard, doesn't set an example, seems to be a turn over machine and maybe the worst defensive player in the league.

I think Boyd really offers a strong bodied mid who can give guys like Libba, Wallis, Smith a chop out. I'd be inclined to play him as a defensive forward...

[FrediKanoute]

"Not pretty, but blue collar".......that's the least that we want.

[Eastdog]

We have looked a lot better this 2nd half and for me that's a positive. Where was this in the 1st half - that's the most frustrating for me.

[FrediKanoute]

why is Markovic playing? we are 17 when he is on the ground

Personally, he is a backman or nothing. We would get much better value from playing Jared Grant. He may not chase or close down, but neither does Marco and at least Grant's pace is such that he may actually get near the ball.

[Mantis]

Gia has flaws, but is still our best forward.

[Eastdog]

We are coming but unfortunately it's too little to late. Gia has been great since his come on.

[lemmon]

Michael Talia 29 touches, 8 marks, 79% efficiency off twitter. Following on radio but looks like a positive

[GVGjr]

Gia has flaws, but is still our best forward.

This is the reason why I don't think he should be used as the sub. I think he can add to the scoreboard more if he is on the ground longer.

[Mantis]

Michael Talia 29 touches, 8 marks, 79% efficiency off twitter. Following on radio but looks like a positive

He would be almost zero metres gained, maybe negative... Tries hard, but his skills aren't great.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm happy they have shown some heart. But we still have a window on where we are, and the issues the coach faces and/or issues with the coach.

[AndrewP6]

Final score hugely flattering. Terrible game.

[GVGjr]

He would be almost zero metres gained, maybe negative... Tries hard, but his skills aren't great.

He can't create play for us because if he isn't confident in kicking the ball directly down the field. He's far more comfortable switching the ball across the ground.

[Eastdog]

Final score hugely flattering. Terrible game.

Imagine if we were better in the first half would have been a different game and a lot closer. We only played 2 quarters really today.

[Before I Die]

Final score hugely flattering. Terrible game.

Why hugely flattering? Fought the game out well and Gia makes a big difference. Certainly well beaten and never in the hunt, but the second half fight back deserves to be taken as a positive.

[LostDoggy]

What FK? Doesn't work hard, doesn't set an example, seems to be a turn over machine and maybe the worst defensive player in the league.


I think Boyd really offers a strong bodied mid who can give guys like Libba, Wallis, Smith a chop out. I'd be inclined to play him as a defensive forward...

This is where we differ.
I'm more looking to get Dickson back for fwd defensive pressure???

[bornadog]

He would be almost zero metres gained, maybe negative... Tries hard, but his skills aren't great.

Come on give the kid a go he was playing his 5th game in AFL.:rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

Final score hugely flattering. Terrible game.

Na, you can't say that. Collingwood took the foot off the throttle. So they didn't deserve a percentage booster.

[lemmon]

This is where we differ.
I'm more looking to get Dickson back for fwd defensive pressure???

Half the issue when Dickson was in was that he wasn't proving much defensive pressure. Hrovat and Hunter are two guys who will spend time forward who have a bit of pace, might help stop the ball coming out as freely

[AndrewP6]

Na, you can't say that. Collingwood took the foot off the throttle. So they didn't deserve a percentage booster.

So you honestly think they were only five goals better? Agree to disagree then.

[AndrewP6]

Why hugely flattering? Fought the game out well and Gia makes a big difference. Certainly well beaten and never in the hunt, but the second half fight back deserves to be taken as a positive.

Because we were terrible for the most part. The fight back only happened because Carringbush lifted the foot off the pedal, not because we were any chop.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Imagine if we were better in the first half would have been a different game and a lot closer. We only played 2 quarters really today.

Collingwood took the foot off a bit in the second half, but we did improve a bit also. In the end the margin did flatter us.
Where would we be without Griff.
We have holes everywhere, but for mine we have too many one paced midfielders who are goers but who cannnot use the ball with any sort of consistency, and are not goal scorers. I know we all love Smith's ferocity, but he is barely up to VFL level by foot, Stevens one step above Smith. Wallis has no area of his game that is a weapon, Lower is a negater, & Libba a clearance machine. Then we have Cooney who I'm afraid is just nowhere near the player he once was.
That leaves Griff as our only midfield weapon, and maybe in a couple of years Macrae & maybe Stringer if he graduates from being a forward.

We need an injection of midfield class, and quality ball users all over the field. Forget thinking about Tom Boyd. With our current midfield he'd never even see the ball.

[bornadog]

Because we were terrible for the most part. The fight back only happened because Carringbush lifted the foot off the pedal, not because we were any chop.

Andrew who cares how it was done, credit where credit is due.

[Remi Moses]

Because we were terrible for the most part. The fight back only happened because Carringbush lifted the foot off the pedal, not because we were any chop.

That's a bit harsh.
Dogs took the game on in the second half and the Pies rely heavily on the big few.
I find puzzling is that we played into their hands in the first half with slow laborious ball movement.

[LostDoggy]

So you honestly think they were only five goals better? Agree to disagree then.

So you honestly think a team should deserve a 100pt win only playing a half of football? If so then yes, we'll agree to disagree.

[AndrewP6]

Andrew who cares how it was done, credit where credit is due.

Fair enough, but will this be the remark after other games where we put a few late goals on to give scoreboard credibility? Sure, it's preferable to have a better margin, but it doesn't detract from the problems we have. Gilding the lily, wallpapering the cracks, call it what you will.

[Ghost Dog]

Come on give the kid a go he was playing his 5th game in AFL.:rolleyes:

Give the kid a go, but what about the skills coaches? We have a pack of blokes all competing for most awkward ball drop.

[Go_Dogs]

Thankfully we finished off a bit better in the second half, because the first half was woeful.

The number of players that hadn't laid a tackle at half time was disgusting - we have too few who are prepared to do the hard, team things.

Our skill level was very poor and a lot of it was from players like Cooney who simply has to perform better with ball in hand.

Boyd made a number of very weak efforts and his lack of accountability to Swan and not applying enough pressure or staying in the contest with him was a lowlight.

Addison could've had an OK game if he'd been able to finish a few gettable shots but he isn't someone who can consistently be involved. I like Addison, but he's too quick to go to ground and too slow to recover his feet. I'm not sure where his future lies at present and he might be squeezed out when Dickson is ready.

Hope Cordy or Fletcher are back soon because we can't persist with Markovic any longer. He's not up to AFL standard and struggled big time to have any impact today.

I'd love to see Jones go back to the VFL for a few weeks but we just don't have anyone we can replace him with. He needs to get the confidence to attack each contest with both arms out - he seems to be taking the easy option at the moment and being satisfied to simply be in the contest but I think we need to be demanding more from him at the moment.

Griffen, Murph and Gia all did good things, Libba was ok. Thought Talia was OK today too. JJ showed a bit of dash towards the end of the game but we really need to try and get the ball into his hands more often off half back so he can create.

[AndrewP6]

So you honestly think a team should deserve a 100pt win only playing a half of football? If so then yes, we'll agree to disagree.

Where did I say that? As you said, agree to disagree.

[bornadog]

Fair enough, but will this be the remark after other games where we put a few late goals on to give scoreboard credibility? Sure, it's preferable to have a better margin, but it doesn't detract from the problems we have. Gilding the lily, wallpapering the cracks, call it what you will.

We were pathetic today, we tried hard, but just don't have the Skills.

To me Roughead is a big problem at Fullback. He is ok against mediocre forwards but he has been thrashed this year by good FF, eg Harry Taylor, Cloke.

He has a long way to go.

[Mantis]

Come on give the kid a go he was playing his 5th game in AFL.:rolleyes:

What I stated wasn't correct?

[Eastdog]

Fair enough, but will this be the remark after other games where we put a few late goals on to give scoreboard credibility? Sure, it's preferable to have a better margin, but it doesn't detract from the problems we have. Gilding the lily, wallpapering the cracks, call it what you will.

Fair point Andrew but why I was a little more hopeful by the end of the game is that we fought it out and did not surrender which would of resulted in a 100 point loss. It was only a 5 goal loss in the end and that is 'ok' considering how awful we started. Still very disappointing.

[LostDoggy]

So you honestly think they were only five goals better? Agree to disagree then.

Where did I say that?
...... We can keep going like this if you want?

[Ghost Dog]

Fair enough, but will this be the remark after other games where we put a few late goals on to give scoreboard credibility? Sure, it's preferable to have a better margin, but it doesn't detract from the problems we have. Gilding the lily, wallpapering the cracks, call it what you will.

Have to agree Andrew. The second quarter was just the normal effort you would expect,having watched us the last few weeks.
The first half was awful to watch. The second barely watchable.

[bulldogtragic]

Just from a managerial viewpoint, how does our skills coach (Bubba) justify taking the pay check. Nothing personal at all, but we can't be this bad skills wise and not question this position.

[AndrewP6]

Where did I say that?
...... We can keep going like this if you want?

No, I'm older than 12. This is exactly the sort of stuff that puts me off this forum.

[bulldogtragic]

We were pathetic today, we tried hard, but just don't have the Skills.

To me Roughead is a big problem at Fullback. He is ok against mediocre forwards but he has been thrashed this year by good FF, eg Harry Taylor, Cloke.

He has a long way to go.
I know we have had orgasms over how good he can be back, but as a junior he was a great ruckman who beat Nic Nat in the champs, and he can play forward.

Maybe a rethink wouldn't hurt.

[lemmon]

We were pathetic today, we tried hard, but just don't have the Skills.

To me Roughead is a big problem at Fullback. He is ok against mediocre forwards but he has been thrashed this year by good FF, eg Harry Taylor, Cloke.

He has a long way to go.

Not saying that isn't fair but most second year fullbacks would be smashed with the amount of ball coming in. He hasn't player there for years, missed all the junior developmental years someone like Talia would've got playing at fullback and is going up mostly one on one against some of the best in the game.

[lemmon]

Where did I say that?
...... We can keep going like this if you want?

I think everyone would prefer you didn't.

[azabob]

I know we have had orgasms over how good he can be back, but as a junior he was a great ruckman who beat Nic Nat in the champs, and he can play forward.

Maybe a rethink wouldn't hurt.

McCartney has already been thinking and talking about Roughead going forward in the second half of the season.

[bornadog]

McCartney has already been thinking and talking about Roughead going forward in the second half of the season.

Who goes to Fullback - Markovic :eek:

[LostDoggy]

No, I'm older than 12. This is exactly the sort of stuff that puts me off this forum.

This I can agree with you about.
Arguing a point, backing out and getting upset when someone calls you on it, does the same to me.

[Eastdog]

Who goes to Fullback - Markovic :eek:

Maybe getting rid of Lake wasn't the best decision we made. Would have been so valuable down back.

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe getting rid of Lake wasn't the best decision we made. Would have been so valuable down back.
When you gift the opposition more turnovers than anyone else, not even Lake could stop the rot.

[LostDoggy]

That's a bit harsh.
Dogs took the game on in the second half and the Pies rely heavily on the big few.
I find puzzling is that we played into their hands in the first half with slow laborious ball movement.

We had a week off and Collingwood were 50 points up and getting ready for theirs. Simple as that.

[SlimPickens]

Maybe getting rid of Lake wasn't the best decision we made. Would have been so valuable down back.

Don't understand this, our defence was not our issue today!!!


Not happy with Hrovat so far?

[Eastdog]

We had a week off and Collingwood were 50 points up and getting ready for theirs. Simple as that.

We were still on the bye in that first half.

[Eastdog]

Don't understand this, our defence was not our issue today!!!


Not happy with Hrovat so far?

I know it wasn't but what I'm saying SP is that his experience down there would have been so valuable but the reality is his gone and that was his decision.

[comrade]

What's Roughy supposed to do? A few of Cloke's goals were kicked when Roughy wasn't in his vicinity and others were unstoppable due to a turnover up the field. One on one I felt he held his own which is impressive considering it's a strength of Cloke's.

Roughy is the least of our worries.

[Hotdog60]

The Pies would have been fired up early due to a bit of media scrutiny. A lack of kicking skills I think stifles our movement forward and we are reluctant to hit targets when they present.

[The Underdog]

What's Roughy supposed to do? A few of Cloke's goals were kicked when Roughy wasn't in his vicinity and others were unstoppable due to a turnover up the field. One on one I felt he held his own which is impressive considering it's a strength of Cloke's.

Roughy is the least of our worries.

Yeah, agree. Thought Roughy, Talia & Morris were solid. The volume and quality of ball coming in made it very hard. I still think Roughead can be a FB. He's had less than 20 senior games there and does a lot of things right. Puts himself in good positions quite often.

[G-Mo77]

Pathetic today. I actually left at 3 quarter time I wanted to leave at half but I persisted. I've defended the coach for a long time but if his game plan was to stop, kick backwards and sideways to start the game then I'm real concerned. Not once in the time I was there did I see a player sprint into a position to make an option. It was like we conceded defeat before we even started and just wanted to keep it respectable. Embarrassed is as close to a word I can think of for the performance tonight and I honestly wish we were completely blown away because a lot of our players and especially our fans will think that is good enough.

[Mofra]

My reading was we were told early to keep possession but we had nothing up the ground to kick it to - Collingwood are clearly a well drilled unit. We were rattled early.

The other concern is leadership - where is it? Boyd made his reputation as a hard nosed run with player who leaves no stone unturned off the field, yet seems to play u10s football when he's in the middle, despite the game developing into one where sklills are more important now than ever. Teams score more from turnovers than any other aspect of play.

I am actually worried we have a leadership vacuum at the Bulldogs.
Boyd is well below his best, Cross is near the finishing line (as much as I love him as a player), Gia is already halfway to coaching and is acting like our true captain right now, Griff's gold but a quiet type, and the three younger leaders as per the pre-season touts are Wood (injured), Higgins (always injured) and Wallis (very young and playing seconds).

What happens next year? We persist with Boyd again, convince Griff when it's not certain he wants the responsibility, or try someone else who isn't even in our current best 22?

[G-Mo77]

My reading was we were told early to keep possession but we had nothing up the ground to kick it to - Collingwood are clearly a well drilled unit. We were rattled early.

That's how I saw it from my seat. The Pies are a defensive vice when on song and we played right into their hands with slow back and sideways ball movement and little to no effort to make position further up the ground. Sadly it looked instructed which is the most concerning.

[Scorlibo]

Not happy with Hrovat so far?

Enough of these Lake-Hrovat comparisons, we didn't get Hrovat for Lake. It was a pick upgrade in addition to a later pick. It would be more accurate to say we got Koby Stevens for Lake. Sorry, I know it's nitpicking, but I just don't like posters pretending that we got the good end of the deal on that one. It's the Farren Ray-Liam Jones comparisons born again.

[SlimPickens]

Enough of these Lake-Hrovat comparisons, we didn't get Hrovat for Lake. It was a pick upgrade in addition to a later pick. It would be more accurate to say we got Koby Stevens for Lake. Sorry, I know it's nitpicking, but I just don't like posters pretending that we got the good end of the deal on that one. It's the Farren Ray-Liam Jones comparisons born again.

Saying we need Lake, or we shouldn't have traded him is such a simplistic short sighted view IMO. Today was bad but as I said our defenders were not the problem, particularly early.

I'm not comparing lake to Hrovat, what Im suggesting is that if we didn't trade or up grade lake we wouldn't have got Hrovat (which is fact).

Fair enough on the lake Hrovat comparisons but I'm equally over the "we should have kept Lake" suggestion.

[Eastdog]

Saying we need Lake, or we shouldn't have traded him is such a simplistic short sighted view IMO. Today was bad but as I said our defenders were not the problem, particularly early.

I'm not comparing lake to Hrovat, what Im suggesting is that if we didn't trade or up grade lake we wouldn't have got Hrovat (which is fact).

Fair enough on the lake Hrovat comparisons but I'm equally over the "we should have kept Lake" suggestion.

But don't you think though SP like Harbrow and Ward his another that would have been great for our current group.

[Dry Rot]

I only listened to bits of the game, but for most of it one thing that seemed to stand out was Talia's disposal clangers.

Yet the ABC radio guys were singing his praises at the end.

What gives? Thoughts on Talia's game?

[SlimPickens]

But don't you think though SP like Harbrow and Ward his another that would have been great for our current group.

Brian plays for Brian. Loved him at the doggies but much prefer Morris as a mentor.

Ward and Harbrow are pointless to bring up as we didn't trade them, they left. i'm more concerned about the blokes we have not those that have left.

[GVGjr]

I only listened to bits of the game, but for most of it one thing that seemed to stand out was Talia's disposal clangers.

Yet the ABC radio guys were singing his praises at the end.

What gives? Thoughts on Talia's game?

Good on stats a bit weak on value. We need to keep working with him but currently he is defensively focused and doesn't attack enough.

[Eastdog]

I only listened to bits of the game, but for most of it one thing that seemed to stand out was Talia's disposal clangers.

Yet the ABC radio guys were singing his praises at the end.

What gives? Thoughts on Talia's game?

I also listened to it on the radio today as I wasn't able to go to the match and the commentators after the match on SEN said he may be a chance for the rising star nomination this round when they were discussing the match with a caller.

[Dry Rot]

Good on stats a bit weak on value. We need to keep working with him but currently he is defensively focused and doesn't attack enough.

Seems when he does, he gifts it to the opposition by what I heard.


I also listened to it on the radio today as I wasn't able to go to the match and the commentators after the match on SEN said he may be a chance for the rising star nomination this round when they were discussing the match with a caller.

That would be bizarre given what I heard during the game. His disposal sounded real awful.

[Dry Rot]

Another question:

it seems we were a bunch of rabbits in the headlights in the first half, then came out, gave it to them across the ground and won the second half.

Is that right? If so, what changed?

[Eastdog]

Another question:

it seems we were a bunch of rabbits in the headlights in the first half, then came out, gave it to them across the ground and won the second half.

Is that right? If so, what changed?

We took the game on more in the 2nd half and attacked a bit more. First half we were playing far too much in our D50. At quarter time we had 77% of possessions in our back half!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Seems when he does, he gifts it to the opposition by what I heard.

That would be bizarre given what I heard during the game. His disposal sounded real awful.

Talia does a lot right. The only element of his game that needs to improve is his disposal. Last week v Port Adelaide it was good, this week v Collingwood it was poor. If he emulates Morris, he'll develop into a fantastic lock down defender who does have an ability to accumulate the ball a bit.

The key will be setting up a good side around him, with good disposers of the ball.

[Dry Rot]

We took the game on more in the 2nd half and attacked a bit more. First half we were playing far too much in our D50. At quarter time we had 77% of possessions in our back half!

Thanks, but why didn't we play the whole game like the second half?

[bornadog]

What's Roughy supposed to do? A few of Cloke's goals were kicked when Roughy wasn't in his vicinity and others were unstoppable due to a turnover up the field. One on one I felt he held his own which is impressive considering it's a strength of Cloke's.

Roughy is the least of our worries.

He was totally lost today, half the time he didn't know where Cloke was.


Yeah, agree. Thought Roughy, Talia & Morris were solid. The volume and quality of ball coming in made it very hard. I still think Roughead can be a FB. He's had less than 20 senior games there and does a lot of things right. Puts himself in good positions quite often.

Agree he has only had a 20 games at FB and we should be more forgiving, all I am saying he is currently not at the level we need him to be. Maybe he will work out, or should he be in the forward line and 2nd ruck? I just don't know.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Thanks, but why didn't we play the whole game like the second half?

We couldn't handle Collingwood's pressure and were rattled.

When their pressure dropped off a little, we were able to play ourselves back into the game (relatively speaking).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree he has only had a 20 games at FB and we should be more forgiving, all I am saying he is currently not at the level we need him to be. Maybe he will work out, or should he be in the forward line and 2nd ruck? I just don't know.

I've long said that Roughy should play this role and that longer term, I see him becoming an extremely good player who can influence matches.

I think it's a positive he's added another string to his bow, in that he does have an ability to drop back, but in no language is he a bonafide FB.

[Eastdog]

Thanks, but why didn't we play the whole game like the second half?

That's what I've been asking myself as well DR. It seemed like we already were playing like will going to lose in the 1st half. Did not come out firing at all like will were still in bye mode.

[bornadog]

Brian plays for Brian. Loved him at the doggies but much prefer Morris as a mentor.

Ward and Harbrow are pointless to bring up as we didn't trade them, they left. i'm more concerned about the blokes we have not those that have left.

or the blokes we could have got, what is done is done.

[Dry Rot]

Talia does a lot right. The only element of his game that needs to improve is his disposal. Last week v Port Adelaide it was good, this week v Collingwood it was poor. If he emulates Morris, he'll develop into a fantastic lock down defender who does have an ability to accumulate the ball a bit.

The key will be setting up a good side around him, with good disposers of the ball.

OK, thanks.

So replicate our recent golden age, Talia = Morris. We just need to find a new Lake and Williams in the next couple of drafts.

IMO Roughead is being played out of position and should be a forward/ruck.

Jones has less forward's instincts than either Picken or Addison, and even worse kicking for gaol, and should be tried at CHB or FB ASAP.

[Dry Rot]

That's what I've been asking myself as well DR. It seemed like we already were playing like will going to lose in the 1st half. Did not come out firing at all like will were still in bye mode.

See http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=11965

[bornadog]

Jones has less forward's instincts than either Picken or Addison, and even worse kicking for gaol, and should be tried at CHB or FB ASAP.

Maybe that's where he should be with his terrible shots at goal. :D

On a serious note, I think it was GVGjr who mentioned maybe we should try him at CHB, I wouldn't mind. We have nothing to lose as he has been terrible at FF for the past 4 matches.

[Dry Rot]

Maybe that's where he should be with his terrible shots at goal. :D

On a serious note, I think it was GVGjr who mentioned maybe we should try him at CHB, I wouldn't mind. We have nothing to lose as he has been terrible at FF for the past 4 matches.

I have been saying try him at CHB for ages, he simply isn't a forward.

[Dry Rot]

Maybe that's where he should be with his terrible shots at goal. :D


An accurate typo? :D

[GVGjr]

Maybe that's where he should be with his terrible shots at goal. :D

On a serious note, I think it was GVGjr who mentioned maybe we should try him at CHB, I wouldn't mind. We have nothing to lose as he has been terrible at FF for the past 4 matches.

I'm off that notion now so it will probably happen. I think we have to stick with playing him because he is still a great option.

[LostDoggy]

Enough of these Lake-Hrovat comparisons, we didn't get Hrovat for Lake. It was a pick upgrade in addition to a later pick. It would be more accurate to say we got Koby Stevens for Lake. Sorry, I know it's nitpicking, but I just don't like posters pretending that we got the good end of the deal on that one. It's the Farren Ray-Liam Jones comparisons born again.

Lake was going. He was the most inevitable free agent since free agency began. We got what we could. Simple as that.

Sorry if I sound narky, but I'm kinda over the “We was wobbed of Lake!” topic.