Three Things I've Learned - Round 12 Edition

[GVGjr]

You should all know the drill by now, fire away with the 3 things you have learned by watching this evenings game against Collingwood.

[FrediKanoute]

1. Marcovic will be delisted at the end of the season......no role for him.
2. Cooney is not a backman - play him up the ground
3. Jake Stringer is the real deal

[Eastdog]

1. Griff is a superstar

2. Need to play 4 quarters

3. Our efficiency in that 1st half was woeful.

[Remi Moses]

3. You cannot play a slow build up defensive style against Their defenders.
2. Take the game on
1. Markovic is not up to that Swingman role.

[AndrewP6]

The last two games gave us false hope.

Our skill execution has gone nowhere, in a long time.

Jake Stringer will be very good for us.

[Remi Moses]

The last two games gave us false hope.

Our skill execution has gone nowhere, in a long time.

Jake Stringer will be very good for us.

The biggest killer is that kick into 50.
It isn't up to league standard.
We need better ball users

[bornadog]

I will only post the positives:

1. Stringer is going to be good once his core strength improves

2. Talia will be just as good as his brother.

3. Bob Murphy is still a great player given his age.

[Ghost Dog]

I will only post the positives:

1. Stringer is going to be good once his core strength improves

2. Talia will be just as good as his brother.

3. Bob Murphy is still a great player given his age.

1. We absolutely cannot accept any more recruits who cannot kick.

2. Matty Boyd. What to do.

3. The Bye often stops the momentum of less experienced sides.

[LostDoggy]

1. We are a rebounding opposition backman's wet dream
2. We never deal well with the bye.
3. Collingwood supporters were incredibly well-behaved near me tonight. Maybe events of recent weeks have reined them in somewhat. Did others experience the same?

[G-Mo77]

The biggest killer is that kick into 50.
It isn't up to league standard.
We need better ball users

We make it extremely hard for ourselves though. If we moved the ball with a bit more urgency it would be a little easier.

Anyways.

3. We've got a find in Talia. Loved his defensive work tonight.
2. Murph has still got it. Still one of teh classiest in teh league.
1. I'm now convinced that Griffen is one of the leagues best. Taken me a while but his last 3 - 4 weeks he has gone to a whole new level.

[Mofra]

1. We have improved- would have lost by 100 points last year
2. Griff is carrying the side this year.
3. We have a lot of players who will not be on the list in 2015-16

[SlimPickens]

1. The only thing that makes our leader, a leader is his title.

2.We have matured as a team, last year that was an 80pt loss.

3. Ryan Griffen is our next captain.

[Doc26]

1. Collingwood fielded a younger list than we did.
2. Hrovat shouldn't be dropped given he already has it over many on our list for kicking efficiency.
3. That our current MC are as guilty as those gone by for going back to the same dirty well.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

1. Swan, Pendlebury and Shaw continue to destroy us highlighting our lack of class.
2. We still lack a quality big forward to support Jones and Stringer.
3. Griffen showed up our lack of pace where he lacked support in the mid field.

[SlimPickens]

1. Collingwood fielded a younger list than we did.

In age or games?

We had 13 under 50 games they had 10

They had 7 over 150 games, we had 6.

Ave games 84 to them and 78 to us

[Doc26]

In age or games?

We had 13 under 50 games they had 10

They had 7 over 150 games, we had 6.

Ave games 84 to them and 78 to us

It was quoted by Buckley in the pre match that his squad today had 8 players who have played 25 games or less and apparently we were fielding 7 in that bracket.

Guess it just depends on how you slice the numbers.

[LostDoggy]

1. Young players dropping off in work rate kills us.

2. Poor kicking skills isn't as big a problem as people think, we don't work half as hard as other teams to present an option to the kicker and it shows big time.

3. Collingwood have a lot of front runners and won't go close to winning the flag

[Remi Moses]

Collingwood's best fire they generally win.
Lets be honest if you compare what we've lost since 2010, and the Pies in regards to quality would be significant.

[Bulldog Joe]

Michael Talia has a long career ahead.
Jake Stringer can be a star.
Liam Jones is the best second ruck option and it gets him involved in the game.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Michael Talia has a long career ahead.
Jake Stringer can be a star.
Liam Jones is the best second ruck option and it gets him involved in the game.

Liam Jones cannot ruck period. Roughead and Campbell remain our best options.

[always right]

Liam Jones cannot ruck period. Roughead and Campbell remain our best options.

Disagree. A couple of times he completely messed up his leap but generally speaking he was reasonably competitive which is all you can hope for. If it helps him get into the game I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives. We are afterall talking about a fairly short period of time he has to ruck in the game.

The only downside of course is that we would not be developing the next ruckman to take over form Will in several year's time but it's debatable whether this is better achieved in the VFL anyway.

[The Pie Man]

Disagree. A couple of times he completely messed up his leap but generally speaking he was reasonably competitive which is all you can hope for. If it helps him get into the game I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives. We are afterall talking about a fairly short period of time he has to ruck in the game.

The only downside of course is that we would not be developing the next ruckman to take over form Will in several year's time but it's debatable whether this is better achieved in the VFL anyway.

Agree AW - I'm starting to worry about Jones....I feel he needs to play the 2nd ruck role to justify getting picked...it's worth a try if it engages him more in the contest.

Also takes away any need to play makeshift stop gaps like Markovic.....as much as a makeshift 2nd ruck Liam might be....he is athletic, which ensures he can at least give a contest.

I think Cordy needs to concentrate on battling Campbell for the No. 1 ruck spot on our list post Will.

[F'scary]

I think Cordy needs to concentrate on battling Campbell for the No. 1 ruck spot on our list post Will.

He better get fit soon, he is only one brain fade or injury away from being the number 1 ruckman right now. Campbell's Soup is seasons away.

(IMO the Ayce-in-the-pack might surprise a few right now as the #1 ruckman.)

[1eyedog]

1. We have improved- would have lost by 100 points last year
2. Griff is carrying the side this year.
3. We have a lot of players who will not be on the list in 2015-16

Who do you think won't be on our list in 2015 who played last night?


1. Swan, Pendlebury and Shaw continue to destroy us highlighting our lack of class.
2. We still lack a quality big forward to support Jones and Stringer.
3. Griffen showed up our lack of pace where he lacked support in the mid field.

This was once again glaring obvious to me last night. It will be interesting to see who we go for now. We cannot wait until 2015-2016 before Jones / Cordy have 100 games under their belt. I think we'll be better with Dickson in the side and Higgins next year but we need to entice a good forward to come over now. I'm happy to pay overs for Crameri - as others have stated Crameri and Stringer would be a handful next season and both would be hard match ups for opposition teams because they are both strong in a number of areas.

1. Gee Boyd was rusty
2. We have a plethora of ordinary talls
3. Our efficiency going inside F50 has not improved, I'm hoping Macca will soon roll out this lesson plan.

[SlimPickens]

The last two games gave us false hope.

Think this is a little unfair, even with the performance yesterday there were some positives to be drawn. Watching the second half of the match I thought we have matured on last year and continued to toil to win those 2 quarters. That certainly didnt happen last year.

I certainly don't think the last two games gave us false hope, it showed how we have improved and as a supporter I needed it.

[Mofra]

Who do you think won't be on our list in 2015 who played last night?
Gia is an obvious one, Addison as a forward must be worried, Marko, sadly the end may come for Murphy & Morris at the end of next year and I think Boyd is starting to hit the wall, Cross-style.

That's almost 1/3

[whythelongface]

It was quoted by Buckley in the pre match that his squad today had 8 players who have played 25 games or less and apparently we were fielding 7 in that bracket.

Guess it just depends on how you slice the numbers.

My post is a bit off topic but looks at a further analysis of the lists in terms of games played.

Collingwood overall may have had a younger list yesterday but analysing the list further shows that we are very inexperienced in key areas.

For instance let’s look at the spine.

Collingwood's spine consisted of:

Reid; Maxwell; Jolly; Lynch and Cloke - all players have played > 100 games except for Reid who is around the 80 game mark

Compare this to our spine:

Roughead; Talia; Minson; Jones; Stringer - only one player who has played > 100 games (Minson) all the rest < 50 games.

Not only that, but the KPP stock of Collingwood are all premiership players whereas Minson is the only KPP in our team to play finals football.

We are basically fielded a spine that is years behind in terms of development in comparison to Collingwood.

Now let’s look at those players who have played > 150 games: They had 8 playing yesterday compared to our 6 (Minson on 146 games can also be thrown into the mix)..

Collingwood - Pendlebury; Swan; Jolly; Maxwell; Lynch; Cloke; O’Brien; Shaw

Western Bulldogs – Griffen; Murphy; Cooney; Boyd; Gia; Morris

There is a reasonable gap between the quality of their + 150 gamers, as a whole, compared to ours. Pendlebury; Cloke; Swan; O’Brien; Shaw are all elite (or close to) comparable to our list of probably only Griffen and maybe Murphy and Minson

Thus whilst Collingwood may have fielded a younger list overall, in terms of KPP and quality of their experienced personnel they were much stronger. This certainly showed up in terms of how we played and the final result.

In saying all this I am encouraged by certain elements of the spine and how they are developing which is a positive sign for the future.

[bornadog]

Who do you think won't be on our list in 2015 who played last night?.

Addison, 2013
Marko, 2013
Boyd, 2014
Murphy, 2014 ( he mentioned on AFL360 next year could be last)
Morris, 2014
Gia,2013

Last year of playing shown against each player

[bornadog]

Thus whilst Collingwood may have fielded a younger list overall,

Younger in age by average of 4 months but they had an average of more games than us.

[always right]

Addison, 2013
Marko, 2013
Boyd, 2014
Murphy, 2014 ( he mentioned on AFL360 next year could be last)
Morris, 2014
Gia,2013

Last year of playing shown against each player

I can see Murphy squeezing out a little more than one more year.....should he wish to do so of course. Players like him and Gia don't get any less smarter and in Bob's case he is unlikely to lose pace to the extent it becomes a problem...unlike Gia for example.

No reason why we can't stick him in a forward pocket to make a nuisance of himself or sit him on a half back flank to set up play. I'd like to enjoy watching Murphy play for as long as possible.

[bornadog]

I can see Murphy squeezing out a little more than one more year.....should he wish to do so of course. Players like him and Gia don't get any less smarter and in Bob's case he is unlikely to lose pace to the extent it becomes a problem...unlike Gia for example.

No reason why we can't stick him in a forward pocket to make a nuisance of himself or sit him on a half back flank to set up play. I'd like to enjoy watching Murphy play for as long as possible.

I was going by what he said on AFL360, and also in some of his articles he has hinted his time is getting closer. Age creeps up very quickly on you and you start losing your athleticism quickly as well.

Bob just turned 31 and will be turning 33 in 2015.

[JohnGentStand]

Murph could realistically be one of those players that lasts deep into his 30's . touch wood.

[Hot_Doggies]

I was going by what he said on AFL360, and also in some of his articles he has hinted his time is getting closer. Age creeps up very quickly on you and you start losing your athleticism quickly as well.

Bob just turned 31 and will be turning 33 in 2015.

Just turned 31, and will be 33 in two years?!?

Slow down, you've lost me again

[always right]

Just turned 31, and will be 33 in two years?!?

Slow down, you've lost me again

I'll try to explain. What Bornadog has done is identify Murph's age is it is at the moment. He's then used a mathematical formula to extrapolate that out for the next two years. He's absolutely right.:)

[ratsmac]

1. Collingwood fielded a younger list than we did.
2. Hrovat shouldn't be dropped given he already has it over many on our list for kicking efficiency.
3. That our current MC are as guilty as those gone by for going back to the same dirty well.

I was thinking exactly this. Hrovat is a beautiful kick and hits targets in the forward 50 and this was desperately needed yesterday.

1. Markovic is useless in our forward line. He got some lucky goals a few weeks back, but I can't see him producing that every week.

2. Stringer is just warming up.

3. Collingwood are no where near contenders.

[westdog54]

1. McCartney must love Marko's work ethic because he couldn't possibly love his football ability.
2. Our last 2 drafts look better and better each week.
3. The glass is half-full. We ran out the game and didn't get blown away.

[Dancin' Douggy]

1. Liam Jones and Roughhead should swap ends.

(nothing against Roughhead's performance, just think Jones looks all at sea as a forward but he has all the tools required to be a full back.Jones is probably more agile than Roughhead, and Roughie usually looks fairly competent when he goes forward.
Jones USUALLY doesn't.

2.Stringer just starting to flex his muscles out there. Oooh baby.

3. Griffen is becoming the complete player. Plays like a captain. Plays like a warrior. Plays like a star.

[LostDoggy]

1. We were beaten for pace. We still don't have the balance right. Dane Swan knows how to get through traffic, can beat an opponent for pace over 10 metres because he knows where to run, and works incredibly hard both ways.

2. Cooney didn't look right. Cross is in the reserves. Boyd struggled to impact. Are some our senior players having trouble playing the way Macca wants them to (ie out of positions they would like to play in)?

3. Our defensive work is better but we still don't form a ring around a stoppage often enough, which allows the ball to get out on occasions.

4. We continue to leak goals because no-one gets goal side in contests 10 metres out (what's with all going for the ball and no-one staying down?)


We have a number of players who are not yet able to work both ways for long enough, or who are done for pace when it comes to a contest. Teams like Collingwood can then just blow us away when they feel like it.