Lower/Picken in the side

[Rocco Jones]

I have been wondering about having 2 players in the side who are pretty much all about negating/tagging. Just a few points...

1- we are well and truly in development phase. At best these guys make us slightly more competitive on the scoreboard. Is it that big a deal?

2- they take up 1-2 spots. I am stealing a friend's (part time WOOF poster) thunder here but are we wasting an opportunity to give someone like Wallis invaluable learning experience running with the league's best? Kieran Jack-esque. Not only can the player learn such wonderful traits from the elite but also have a defensive workrate ingrained.

3- we are trying to develop a side that can play finals footy. How many elite sides go with 1 let alone 2 taggers? Freo have Crowley. Cats, Hawks and Swans don't have anyone I see as an out and out tagger.

4- does having Picken and Lower somewhat excuse the rest of the mids/runners to work going the other way? i.e. we have the specialists to do that. The Swans are defensive beats via sharing the load as a team.

[chef]

What happens if Boyd is used in a more defensive way too?

[Rocco Jones]

What happens if Boyd is used in a more defensive way too?

Yep. If you can't kick or aren't super clean, run hard going the other way.

[Remi Moses]

We have to many negative types IMHO.
I can see why to a degree ( young inexperienced team ) but is it beneficial ?
I'd have on form Picken ahead of Lower at the moment.

[GVGjr]

We should be using Lower as a HBF instead of Goodes.
The original thought of getting Lower was around using him against the bigger bodied midfielders and Picken against the quicker guys. When the ideal match-up isn't there, Lower should be locking down on the oppositions best small or mid sized forward.

[boydogs]

I have been wondering about having 2 players in the side who are pretty much all about negating/tagging. Just a few points...

I think most sides these days will have a defensively minded player in the forward line as well as one in the midfield, in addition to their defenders. I have no issue with Addison, Lower & Picken + 5 others in the backline being in the side at once.

[Dry Rot]

We should be using Lower as a HBF instead of Goodes.
The original thought of getting Lower was around using him against the bigger bodied midfielders and Picken against the quicker guys. When the ideal match-up isn't there, Lower should be locking down on the oppositions best small or mid sized forward.

Makes sense to me, but FWIW Freo fans reckon he was poor in the backline. Their view IIRC was to play him as a tagger in the midfield or not at all.

[whythelongface]

I have no issue with using Lower in a negating role as, at times, he has been effective in shutting a dangerous opposition player down eg. Selwood, however I am not in favour of both Lower and Picken in the team.

I am not sure what Picken offers the team at this stage especially now that Lower is considered the main tagger. I don't rate him as a defender thus thought he would add value as a defensive forward, however from his limited time in the fwd line this year he has also offered little. I think he should spend some time in the ressies.

[Ozza]

Picken is still a better tagger than Lower.

Lower has been used as a tagger, enabling Picken to be able to be used elsewhere, on the speedy small forwards to fill a need. On the weekend, when Picken was required as a midfield tagger and Lower had to play a different role - and he was useless as somewhat of a defensive forward on Houli.

Picken is far more adaptable, and having good pace (needed in our side) means he can play a variety of roles.

[Cyberdoggie]

Picken is far more adaptable, and having good pace (needed in our side) means he can play a variety of roles.

What other role has he been good at? We tried him in defence at the start of the year at that didn't work out.

I think Picken isn't having a good year for other reasons, he hasn't been on top of his game this year that is for sure.

[F'scary]

We should be using Lower as a HBF instead of Goodes.
The original thought of getting Lower was around using him against the bigger bodied midfielders and Picken against the quicker guys. When the ideal match-up isn't there, Lower should be locking down on the oppositions best small or mid sized forward.

I agree with this.

Having seen Lower this season - he is good at the shutdown and has a few scalps to prove it. However, he does not hurt much going the other way.

Picken, on the other hand, has a lot of shut-down scalps as well over the past few years. But he can also be dangerous going the other way as we have all witnessed. Picken is capable of turning pure negation into a surprising head-to-head. Lower doesn't seem to be.

I'm not knocking Lower. He has been a good money-ball addition this year - but Rocco has raised an important issue.

[F'scary]

I will go a bit further. I think Picken is playing a bit out of sorts this year because he has not been recognised as one of our premium midfielders. I reckon he has a point. He has been one of our best midfielders over a number of years now. Macca, find a way to put him back into that familiar role.

[jeemak]

I agree with this.

Having seen Lower this season - he is good at the shutdown and has a few scalps to prove it. However, he does not hurt much going the other way.

Picken, on the other hand, has a lot of shut-down scalps as well over the past few years. But he can also be dangerous going the other way as we have all witnessed. Picken is capable of turning pure negation into a surprising head-to-head. Lower doesn't seem to be.

I'm not knocking Lower. He has been a good money-ball addition this year - but Rocco has raised an important issue.


I will go a bit further. I think Picken is playing a bit out of sorts this year because he has not been recognised as one of our premium midfielders. I reckon he has a point. He has been one of our best midfielders over a number of years now. Macca, find a way to put him back into that familiar role.

I can't agree.

Picken is probably our most limited midfielder. I cringe when he has the ball in his hand, as his decision making is terrible and his ball use is terrible.

He gives 100% each week and he is a very good stopper, however.

[LostDoggy]

Another thing about Picken and Lower is that they are really the two senior players who fly the flag when our younger players are getting bullied by senior opposition as we have seen a few times this season.
Ugh, it would be a really tough decision to leave one of them out.

[Maddog37]

I would like to see how Lower goes playing a free role in the middle. He gets alot of it and kicks goals so surely would be worth a go.

Boyd to tag and Lower to chase the pill a bit more.

[LostDoggy]

I would like to see how Lower goes playing a free role in the middle. He gets alot of it and kicks goals so surely would be worth a go.
.

Kicks goals? 11 in 54, didn't kick one in his first three years, and his best return was one every other game (8 from 19) three years ago at Freo.

I like his energy and effort but I don't think having his disposal coming into the forward line would help us too much.

[soupman]

I would like to see how Lower goes playing a free role in the middle. He gets alot of it and kicks goals so surely would be worth a go.


I wouldn't.

If we are going to create a free role for an inside mid then the likes of Wallis, and eventually Prudden should be given it.

I don't see Lower going to another level, he is a solid player than can play a couple of defensive positions that require a bigger midifeld body but I don't see him being much more than that.

[F'scary]

I can't agree.

Picken is probably our most limited midfielder. I cringe when he has the ball in his hand, as his decision making is terrible and his ball use is terrible.

He gives 100% each week and he is a very good stopper, however.

He was a revelation in 2009, stood out in 2010 - both prelim final years. Continued in 2011 & 12. I think he does play a good head-to-head role against rated midfielders, reducing their output and hurting the other way. Kicked goals as a defensive midfielder. It is really just this season that is not working out, imo.

[LostDoggy]

As pointed out in the OP, Taggers are passe as the three best sides in the comp prove.

I would far rather have a free-running mid capable of getting his own pill in there. If from time to time we get smashed in the middle we can put Boyd to defensive use.

The value or non-value of taqggers was apparent against richmond. We took Cotchin and to a certain extent Delidio out of the game yet still got belted in close.

[Bulldog4life]

We should be using Lower as a HBF instead of Goodes.
The original thought of getting Lower was around using him against the bigger bodied midfielders and Picken against the quicker guys. When the ideal match-up isn't there, Lower should be locking down on the oppositions best small or mid sized forward.

Agree with this. Goodsey has been off a bit lately. Might need a run at Willy.

[Rocco Jones]

As pointed out in the OP, Taggers are passe as the three best sides in the comp prove.

I would far rather have a free-running mid capable of getting his own pill in there. If from time to time we get smashed in the middle we can put Boyd to defensive use.

The value or non-value of taqggers was apparent against richmond. We took Cotchin and to a certain extent Delidio out of the game yet still got belted in close.

I agree with you agreeing with me :) but I don't agree with the 'free-running' bit. I like the Swans mid/runners set up. They don't have tags, instead the defensive work load is shared by the whole team.

Even if our mids really blossom, I don't see them having the overall skillset to run and gun. I am pro defensive midfields and anti having actual tagers.

[Go_Dogs]

Agree with this. Goodsey has been off a bit lately. Might need a run at Willy.

I don't mind the idea but I guess my concern would be how he'd go against the really fast small/medium forwards. He's been exposed in the middle against quicker opponents and most smaller players who fill roles in the forward line have good pace.

Still, it's something I'd like us to look at when the match ups are right.

[always right]

As pointed out in the OP, Taggers are passe as the three best sides in the comp prove.


Is that right? could it simply be that they don't need taggers because they are the best three sides? Perhaps taggers are necessary for middle rung and lower placed sides.

[Dry Rot]

Still like to see Picken left up forward for a full game or two.

[stefoid]

Playing hard tags places an extra offensive burden on the other mids - dont like it.

[F'scary]

Playing hard tags places an extra offensive burden on the other mids - dont like it.

Interesting point.

[Sedat]

I agree with you agreeing with me :) but I don't agree with the 'free-running' bit. I like the Swans mid/runners set up. They don't have tags, instead the defensive work load is shared by the whole team.

Even if our mids really blossom, I don't see them having the overall skillset to run and gun. I am pro defensive midfields and anti having actual taggers.
Yep, an area we've been very poor at, even when we were a top 4 side.

[GVGjr]

Playing hard tags places an extra offensive burden on the other mids - dont like it.

Fremantle often play with versions of hard tags and seem to manage it okay.
While I agree that you can't be overly defensive I think both Picken and Lower can work within our side.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with you agreeing with me :) but I don't agree with the 'free-running' bit. I like the Swans mid/runners set up. They don't have tags, instead the defensive work load is shared by the whole team.

Even if our mids really blossom, I don't see them having the overall skillset to run and gun. I am pro defensive midfields and anti having actual tagers.

Just a continuation of the Jude Bolton, Brett Kirk era with guys like Kieran Jack who are able to shut down their opponent and impact the game hard themselves.

[boydogs]

Fremantle often play with versions of hard tags and seem to manage it okay.

Yeah because they win with 10 goals to 4 scorelines ;)

[Rocco Jones]

Fremantle often play with versions of hard tags and seem to manage it okay.
While I agree that you can't be overly defensive I think both Picken and Lower can work within our side.

Yep it works for Freo but I think there are two main differences.

1- defensive work is still seen as a shared responsibility.
2- Lower/Picken combo don't do enough going other way. Puts an enormous burden on us if they aren't shutting down stars.

[bornadog]

I am going to say it right now, Lower was a waste of a pick. We didn't need a player like Lower. Picken has been our number one tagger, he was third in the best and fairest and regarded in the AFL as one of the best taggers, and we have tried to make him into a back pocket type to play on the small forwards and now we drop him.

In hindsight, the recruiters and Macca got this one wrong.

[LostDoggy]

He was a free agent. No pick was used. Maybe you mean a spot wasted, however i doubt he'd be on much at the third chance saloon.

[bornadog]

He was a free agent. No pick was used. Maybe you mean a spot wasted, however i doubt he'd be on much at the third chance saloon.

a pick a spot it doesn't matter it was a waste.

[Ghost Dog]

I am going to say it right now, Lower was a waste of a pick. We didn't need a player like Lower. Picken has been our number one tagger, he was third in the best and fairest and regarded in the AFL as one of the best taggers, and we have tried to make him into a back pocket type to play on the small forwards and now we drop him.

In hindsight, the recruiters and Macca got this one wrong.

Picken has experienced a drop in form this season.

We absolutely needed a player like Lower for the sake of depth. When you develop young players you need to buffer the side with some hardness and experience. Picken is a solid player, but being lighter bodied, often struggles to contain opponents in the tackle and stop them dishing it off. He's a better in and under player than Lower, and I think they compliment each other somewhat.

[bornadog]

Picken has experienced a drop in form this season.

We absolutely needed a player like Lower for the sake of depth. When you develop young players you need to buffer the side with some hardness and experience.

Depth?? and now we have Picken dropped and Cross dropped. Picken's loss of form is because he is not a backman. He showed last week when he is tagging, that he can play a great game. Picken on Deledio ended up with very little influence on the game.

Why can't Cross play the role Lower is playing? Cross gets more of the ball, he is one of the gutsiest players in the AFL and he has played a tagging role before.

I cannot see what Lower has brought to the team. Yes he played a couple of good games on slow midfielders but he can't keep up with the quicker guys. He was the one that should have been dropped this week not Picken.

[Ghost Dog]

Depth?? and now we have Picken dropped and Cross dropped. Picken's loss of form is because he is not a backman. He showed last week when he is tagging, that he can play a great game. Picken on Deledio ended up with very little influence on the game.

Why can't Cross play the role Lower is playing? Cross gets more of the ball, he is one of the gutsiest players in the AFL and he has played a tagging role before.

I cannot see what Lower has brought to the team. Yes he played a couple of good games on slow midfielders but he can't keep up with the quicker guys. He was the one that should have been dropped this week not Picken.

I see your point. Cross or Lower. Not sure either stands far above the other in terms of what they bring to the team. Depends who we play on the day as to who the coach might favor.

[Go_Dogs]

That's a fairly harsh assessment BAD. He's had a few poor games but he's also had some pretty effective ones. Picken has been down on form this year, perhaps in part to how he has been used, but a lot of posters had been calling for him to play as a small forward or small defender and he hasn't quite stacked up in those roles. He can still play an effective role as a tagger on quicker, outside types. I tend to think team balance, as well as form, is why he went out this week. He'll be back soon enough. Crossy has been a great player for the club, but the curtain is closing on his career and at the moment, Lower is a better option than him in that defensive role (which I know some may disagree with).

I still think there are times when we can play both Picken and Lower, the game against Port was a good example - but it really needs to be a horses for courses selection policy. If there is no obvious match up for one or both of them, don't play them, if there is, great.

[bornadog]

That's a fairly harsh assessment BAD.

The way I look at it is what type of player could we have got instead of Lower? Looking at the needs of the team, we didn't need another tagger. We can certainly do with some more outside run, some pace and some goal kickers.

[Ghost Dog]

That's a fairly harsh assessment BAD. He's had a few poor games but he's also had some pretty effective ones. Picken has been down on form this year, perhaps in part to how he has been used, but a lot of posters had been calling for him to play as a small forward or small defender and he hasn't quite stacked up in those roles. He can still play an effective role as a tagger on quicker, outside types. I tend to think team balance, as well as form, is why he went out this week. He'll be back soon enough. Crossy has been a great player for the club, but the curtain is closing on his career and at the moment, Lower is a better option than him in that defensive role (which I know some may disagree with).

I still think there are times when we can play both Picken and Lower, the game against Port was a good example - but it really needs to be a horses for courses selection policy. If there is no obvious match up for one or both of them, don't play them, if there is, great.

Our entries have not been up to scratch really. I think in a side that had a decent standard of entry, he would do a bit better. But you are right - he hasn't quite done as well as hoped.

[lemmon]

The way I look at it is what type of player could we have got instead of Lower? Looking at the needs of the team, we didn't need another tagger. We can certainly do with some more outside run, some pace and some goal kickers.

Is it fair to say if we hadn't picked Lower we probably would have Brent Prismall on the list instead? All due respect to Prismall but if it's a choice between the two I'd still stick with Lower

[GVGjr]

Yep it works for Freo but I think there are two main differences.

1- defensive work is still seen as a shared responsibility.
2- Lower/Picken combo don't do enough going other way. Puts an enormous burden on us if they aren't shutting down stars.

I still believe we can use lower in other roles especially as a negating HBF. To me he still gets the ball enough we he is locking down on an opponent.

[boydogs]

I am going to say it right now, Lower was a waste of a pick.

You're going off like a frog in a sock without knowing the facts.


Picken dropped and Cross dropped

Meaning Lower, who we got for nothing, is better than those two but was a waste of spot?


Yes he played a couple of good games on slow midfielders but he can't keep up with the quicker guys

Meaning he is a different player to Picken, who is an outside tagger and always failed as an inside tagger against guys like Selwood & Hayes


Is it fair to say if we hadn't picked Lower we probably would have Brent Prismall on the list instead? All due respect to Prismall but if it's a choice between the two I'd still stick with Lower

Exactly. Prismall wasn't picked up by anyone else, don't think we missed out on much.

[Remi Moses]

Would be hard for a 31 y/o to reinvent himself as a tagger.
No doubt he was recruited as a big body to help out our young mids.
Personally, I would have just kept it at Picken

[F'scary]

I am going to say it right now, Lower was a waste of a pick. We didn't need a player like Lower. Picken has been our number one tagger, he was third in the best and fairest and regarded in the AFL as one of the best taggers, and we have tried to make him into a back pocket type to play on the small forwards and now we drop him.

In hindsight, the recruiters and Macca got this one wrong.

I think he is worth his spot on the list this year.

While there has been no mercurial rise up the ladder, we are clearly benefiting from having a few more game-day-ready players on the list this year on the back of the quality we got in the draft (the 1st 4 picks all look really good for the future). We needed a bit more depth in the short term, these guys seem astute enough picks.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't know why the depth argument didn't wash with you BAD.
AFL is a high intensity game. You can get 3-4 injuries in a team in one or two weeks that sees players out for a season. Lower never would have left Freo but for a McPhee not telling the club he was going to retire, then doing so.

[GVGjr]

I am going to say it right now, Lower was a waste of a pick. We didn't need a player like Lower. Picken has been our number one tagger, he was third in the best and fairest and regarded in the AFL as one of the best taggers, and we have tried to make him into a back pocket type to play on the small forwards and now we drop him.

In hindsight, the recruiters and Macca got this one wrong.

I don't think they did make a mistake. Only Stevens and maybe Young were viewed as genuine long term players and Lower and Goodes were added to strengthen the depth of the side which I think they have achieved.

If Picken has only one position in him then we needed to find someone else. Lower is a good option for us but we don't have to play him every week.

McCartney inherited an average list especially from a youth development perspective but he needed to add some stronger bodies to ensure the 2nd half fade outs didn't continue this year like they did last season. The four 'mature guys' we got in the off season I still believe were good additions.

[bornadog]

I don't know why the depth argument didn't wash with you BAD.
AFL is a high intensity game. You can get 3-4 injuries in a team in one or two weeks that sees players out for a season. Lower never would have left Freo but for a McPhee not telling the club he was going to retire, then doing so.

The depth issue only washes with me when we are wining games. We have won 3 games and only 8 in two years, so it doesn't matter, we just have to play the young guys.

[bornadog]

McCartney inherited an average list especially from a youth development perspective but he needed to add some stronger bodies to ensure the 2nd half fade outs didn't continue this year like they did last season. The four 'mature guys' we got in the off season I still believe were good additions.

Young and Stevens, have been excellent and the big plus is they are only 21 years old. Goodes has been very serviceable down back, but then again, we didn't really need him.

[bornadog]

You're going off like a frog in a sock without knowing the facts.

Don't understand this comment.


Meaning Lower, who we got for nothing, is better than those two but was a waste of spot?.

He occupies a spot that someone else could have.


Exactly. Prismall wasn't picked up by anyone else, don't think we missed out on much.

Who says it should be Prismall, maybe Jong or Greenwood could have got the spot, even Redpath.

[GVGjr]

The depth issue only washes with me when we are wining games. We have won 3 games and only 8 in two years, so it doesn't matter, we just have to play the young guys.

We should have been playing and developing the younger guys a few years back as well instead of recruiting and maintaining so many veterans.

I have a different view on this issue than you do. The wins and losses aren't so important if you are competitive and are developing the younger guys. The likes of Lower being at the club and on the ground makes us a stronger side and the encouragement they provide benefits the younger guys.

It's easy to say just play the younger guys regardless but I don't believe young players develop that well if they are constantly thrashed like we were later last season.

Look at the list of guys who have taken a step forward in the last 2 seasons. Roughead, Johannisen, Smith, Jones (I will argue this one) and Liberatore. There is also Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat and now Hunter plus the likes of Stevens and Young. These are all great building blocks and we can add guys like Wallis, Dickson and Dahlhaus despite them having some challenges this year
We haven't seen this sort of development in younger guys for years.

As impressive as that is, it's important that we phase out our reliance on the older guys like Cross, Boyd, Giansiracusa and Murphy by getting some players like Lower and Goodes to come in and assist through the transition.
In my opinion the depth and leadership they provide is important to the development of the younger guys. It's going to be even more important next season when we are running our own VFL side.

[bornadog]

We should have been playing and developing the younger guys a few years back as well instead of recruiting and maintaining so many veterans.

2011 we debuted 11 new players, so the rebuild started then and this is now the third year. I know if we go back further we can argue till we are blew in the face, and that is all past history. All I can say is we were going for a premiership.



I have a different view on this issue than you do.

I think we have the same view, I am only talking about one player and that is Lower and that's where we do differ. We have Boyd, Cross and Picken who can do that role. I know I said we should not have given Goodes the last spot, but I guess he has filled a place that we needed in the short term.

Maybe Lower will prove me wrong by seasons end. I know he has played some very good games, but also some poor games where I felt we may as well have been a whole man down eg: Adelaide match, both Richmond matches.

[LostDoggy]

Neither in our side this week!

[bornadog]

Neither in our side this week!

I don't get why Picken isnot playing.

I need to delete the 100 game appreciation thread and that may get him back in.:D

[stefoid]

The way I look at it is what type of player could we have got instead of Lower? Looking at the needs of the team, we didn't need another tagger. We can certainly do with some more outside run, some pace and some goal kickers.

I dont know why we picked Lower either.

Nobody was picked in the 80s which would have been our next list spot, but we might have picked up another rookie. Lets say we drafted goodes rather than rookied, which is a fair call since he has played every game.

[bornadog]

I dont know why we picked Lower either.

Nobody was picked in the 80s which would have been our next list spot, but we might have picked up another rookie. Lets say we drafted goodes rather than rookied, which is a fair call since he has played every game.

Yes agree. I was critical of picking up Goodes, only due to his age, nothing more, but can understand we needed someone in the backline with good kicking skills. I still fail to see why we had to pick Lower when we have plenty of him. I am guessing because he is only 25 and the next few years our inside mids like Cross/Boyd will be gone and we need someone to help the young mids while they develop.

[The Underdog]

Yes agree. I was critical of picking up Goodes, only due to his age, nothing more, but can understand we needed someone in the backline with good kicking skills. I still fail to see why we had to pick Lower when we have plenty of him. I am guessing because he is only 25 and the next few years our inside mids like Cross/Boyd will be gone and we need someone to help the young mids while they develop.

I'd imagine that's exactly why we picked him up. He was also a free agent so he cost us nothing but a place on the list. A spot that probably would have ended up being Prismall otherwise. I'd imagine that after a couple of years of compromised drafts they figured the pool was pretty thin as evidenced by the picking of Goodes and retention of the other rookies. A lot of other clubs pretty much ignored the rookie draft last year too. I view it as a pretty low risk/low reward pick without much downside. If the kids develop and are good enough they'll beat him out of the side.

[G-Mo77]

Yes agree. I was critical of picking up Goodes, only due to his age, nothing more, but can understand we needed someone in the backline with good kicking skills. I still fail to see why we had to pick Lower when we have plenty of him. I am guessing because he is only 25 and the next few years our inside mids like Cross/Boyd will be gone and we need someone to help the young mids while they develop.

You've answered your own question there. Lower is a depth player while other players develop no more, no less. He's had some good games with us this season. I think he was worth picking up personally.

[always right]

Yes agree. I was critical of picking up Goodes, only due to his age, nothing more, but can understand we needed someone in the backline with good kicking skills. I still fail to see why we had to pick Lower when we have plenty of him. I am guessing because he is only 25 and the next few years our inside mids like Cross/Boyd will be gone and we need someone to help the young mids while they develop.

So many posts on this and you end up answering your own question:p

[Bulldog4life]

Would be hard for a 31 y/o to reinvent himself as a tagger.
No doubt he was recruited as a big body to help out our young mids.
Personally, I would have just kept it at Picken

Who is the 31 year old you talk of Remi?

[Bulldog4life]

Yes agree. I was critical of picking up Goodes, only due to his age, nothing more, but can understand we needed someone in the backline with good kicking skills. I still fail to see why we had to pick Lower when we have plenty of him. I am guessing because he is only 25 and the next few years our inside mids like Cross/Boyd will be gone and we need someone to help the young mids while they develop.

and a solid body too.

[Maddog37]

Do we need Lower and Picken in the side if Smith can continue to do good jobs defensively like he did on Ward?

I see similarities in Smith and the way Kieran Jack started out.

[GVGjr]

Do we need Lower and Picken in the side if Smith can continue to do good jobs defensively like he did on Ward?

I see similarities in Smith and the way Kieran Jack started out.

Good points. I think we have room for all of them next week but Lower isn't a permanent fixture in the senior side.

[Bulldog4life]

Love the way Lower flies the flag for the team and gets in the faces of the opposition.

[SonofScray]

Love the way Lower flies the flag for the team and gets in the faces of the opposition.

He sets a good example on this front. Its a shame many of us see this as something exciting, rather than just the expected norm. I was as a Club we were more prepared to be an aggressive presence.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Lower's problem with a number of our midfielder's is an obvious lack of pace. Picken can play as a tagger, in defence, is quicker and can go forward and kick a goal. IMO he should come back to replace JJ this week. Liam's fall from grace after being 3rd in last year's B&F has been quick and sudden. With Boyd out we lack the experience of Liam whose never say die attitude will be vital against the Bombers and the Hawks in the next two weeks.

[bulldogtragic]

Lower's problem with a number of our midfielder's is an obvious lack of pace. Picken can play as a tagger, in defence, is quicker and can go forward and kick a goal. IMO he should come back to replace JJ this week. Liam's fall from grace after being 3rd in last year's B&F has been quick and sudden. With Boyd out we lack the experience of Liam whose never say die attitude will be vital against the Bombers and the Hawks in the next two weeks.
If (and this is all supposition) Liam feels he had a good year last year, thinks he has been played out of position and then dropped for it, and thinks he can regain the form of 2012, I could see him requesting a trade.

[LostDoggy]

Are we expecting Picken or Lower back this week?

With Watson out and Stanton in doubt, can't find an opponent for either..

[Maddog37]

Zaharakis needs to be watched.

[Hotdog60]

Zaharakis needs to be watched.

Do we give Clay another task?

[Maddog37]

Strikes me as someone Picken might enjoy running with. Heppell seems to give them alot of outlets with his running so I would like him given some attention too.

[bornadog]

Strikes me as someone Picken might enjoy running with. Heppell seems to give them alot of outlets with his running so I would like him given some attention too.

Nah, Picken will be in the back pocket to replace JJ.

[GVGjr]

Nah, Picken will be in the back pocket to replace JJ.
Murphy might end up there

[Rocco Jones]

Really pleased to see Clay get a crack at tagging before his injury and now Wallis today. Mitch was far from great but he wasn't blown away either. A great learning experience for him to play on Hodge.

[bornadog]

Really pleased to see Clay get a crack at tagging before his injury and now Wallis today. Mitch was far from great but he wasn't blown away either. A great learning experience for him to play on Hodge.

Kept Hodge to 18 disposals, however , the two goals he kicked didn't help our cause.

[soupman]

Kept Hodge to 18 disposals, however , the two goals he kicked didn't help our cause.

The Griffen smother was hardly anything Wallis could've prevented. I thought Wallis did a solid job and I would like t see him persisted with in this role.

[westdog54]

Kept Hodge to 18 disposals, however , the two goals he kicked didn't help our cause.


The Griffen smother was hardly anything Wallis could've prevented. I thought Wallis did a solid job and I would like t see him persisted with in this role.

Agree that the smother goal was something special. Can't expect Wallis to be running at his side when we've got the ball.

Wasn't entirely unhappy with Wallis' performance yesterday, was certainly raising the ire of the Hawks players. A few of them went after him at one stage in the third.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd like to see Wallis play the year out as our tagger. He's had a terrible season but it's a way of getting something out of it, rather than him playing poorly/getting dropped and playing VFL.

If that means Lower/Cross don't return, so be it.

[Mantis]

Wasn't entirely unhappy with Wallis' performance yesterday, was certainly raising the ire of the Hawks players. A few of them went after him at one stage in the third.

No-one can (will) question Wallis's desire & effort, his major issue is when he gets the ball in his hand which is really holding him back at present.

[Greystache]

I'd like to see Wallis play the year out as our tagger. He's had a terrible season but it's a way of getting something out of it, rather than him playing poorly/getting dropped and playing VFL.

If that means Lower/Cross don't return, so be it.

I wouldn't be unhappy with that either. Wallis has so much to offer the club off the field we need to do whatever we can to find a role for him.

[LostDoggy]

Agree that the smother goal was something special. Can't expect Wallis to be running at his side when we've got the ball.

Wasn't entirely unhappy with Wallis' performance yesterday, was certainly raising the ire of the Hawks players. A few of them went after him at one stage in the third.

Can't believe a player like Hodge could be such a sook for getting sat on. The master of playing 'unsociable' football just within the rules and was crying to the umpires that Wallis was scragging him.

[bulldogtragic]

Can't believe a player like Hodge could be such a sook for getting sat on. The master of playing 'unsociable' football just within the rules and was crying to the umpires that Wallis was scragging him.
Have you seen Wally, he's a beast :)

[Hotdog60]

Can't believe a player like Hodge could be such a sook for getting sat on. The master of playing 'unsociable' football just within the rules and was crying to the umpires that Wallis was scragging him.

They needed to look closer at Giff beheld by the arm and scragged all day.

Hodge needs to get over it princess and think himself lucky it was Libba senior.:D

[bornadog]

They needed to look closer at Giff beheld by the arm and scragged all day.

Hodge needs to get over it princess and think himself lucky it wasn't Libba senior.:D

I don't understand how The Age gave Hodge votes and not Isaac Smith who was clearly the Hawks best player. Hodge did a couple of good things but Wallis also negated alot.

[LostDoggy]

Any idea of Mr Lowers' contract length. Being a third timer, picked as a free agent it couldn't be more than a year could it?

Useful player, but if Wallis is played with relative success as a tagger like he was on the weekend, and we've got Picken, where does this leave Eds' brother?

[Bulldog4life]

I don't understand how The Age gave Hodge votes and not Isaac Smith who was clearly the Hawks best player. Hodge did a couple of good things but Wallis also negated alot.

The media love Hodge to bits.

[GVGjr]

Any idea of Mr Lowers' contract length. Being a third timer, picked as a free agent it couldn't be more than a year could it?

Useful player, but if Wallis is played with relative success as a tagger like he was on the weekend, and we've got Picken, where does this leave Eds' brother?

2 to 3 year deal I suspect. He knocked back a deal to stay with Fremantle.

[Ghost Dog]

Wasn't he let go by Freo, who then scrambled to make him stay after McPhee retired?

[GVGjr]

Wasn't he let go by Freo, who then scrambled to make him stay after McPhee retired?

They delisted him but quickly told him they would redraft him. Lower knocked that back to come to us.