We need to talk about Adam...

[SlimPickens]

Last year under contract and a free agent come years end.

So what do we do about Cooney? He is playing like he doesn't want to be there or a man who has lost all confidence in his body/form etc. I get that he has always been laconic in the way he goes about his football but enough is enough.

What are people's thoughts? Does he have value on the trade market? Does he go via free agency and we get compensated? Do we back a champion in to turn it around?

[always right]

I'm not sure what we will get for him TBH. Perhaps the best outcome is that he stays on the list for a hell of a lot less than we currently pay him. He's a bit player nowadays and needs to simply play a role as we develop younger players.

[Rance Fan]

Move him on. Might get a 3rd round pick

[LostDoggy]

Talked about him two months back.

Thanks Adam.

[GVGjr]

It's up to Cooney. If he wants to stay with us we should put up a reasonable offer allowing for his age and fitness level. If he wants to go then we help that along.

[G-Mo77]

I think we'll leave it up to him. If he wants to stay then he'll stay, if he wants to go then we'll work a deal out and move him on.

edit: GVGJr as the old saying goes great minds think alike. :)

[SonofScray]

Agree. If he wants to stay on, on I'd like that, we should make that possible within reason. If he wants out, move him on. We're not going to get great value for him through a trade if we push it, I would have thought. So there seems less risk in keeping him around than moving him on.

He just needs a defined role within the team which allows for whats left of his skill set to add value, which I feel is as a forward given the dearth of players we have that can sniff a goal.

[The Underdog]

As GVG says, it's Adam's call, but it might help if we stop playing him in a position he clearly can't or won't play. He has been terrible when played behind the ball and is a liability as a loose man in defence. At least play him in a position he can be effective in.

[bornadog]

As GVG says, it's Adam's call, but it might help if we stop playing him in a position he clearly can't or won't play. He has been terrible when played behind the ball and is a liability as a loose man in defence. At least play him in a position he can be effective in.

This ^^

Last night when he went to the midfield in the last and kicked two goals, he showed us what the real Cooney is like. He can't play back, he is just not a backman.

I would like to see him a Bulldog till he retires.

[AndrewP6]

I'd say we back him in. We wouldn't get much for him, and I'm not comfortable just shipping them off when we perceive they're beyond their best. Play him forward with stints in the middle, as others have said the back line experiment simply doesn't work.

[Rocco Jones]

I pretty much agree with the consensus of this thread so far.

Looking at free agents who went last year around Cooney's agae, the Saints got pick 13 for Goddard and Port got pick 30 for Pearce. I would say we would get a pick around the 20 mark for Coons if he were to leave.

When it comes to trading players or letting them go, I think fans can often disregard loyalty as being purely sentimental and not making sense in the cut and thrust of the modern game. I believe showing loyalty can be very logical and make good business sense. If a player is well liked and has been a very good servant of the club (as Cooney has been) and their club burns them, how can it expect loyalty going the other way when their valuable mates/team mates are in contract discussions?

If Cooney wants to stay and accept a reasonable offer we have to keep him IMO. The ideal situation for us is Cooney leaving on his own terms and us receiving a pick around the 20 mark. We aren't going to be even around the finals for at least a couple of years and I think Cooney will be pretty much done by then. While he seems a good enough bloke and well liked, I don't think he has the attitude that will help develop kids.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Agree with AndrewP6 here, play him as a forward Mid role or even the sub. I would pay him on market rates or performance based contract, however we should hang on to him as he still has what it takes just not the body.

[bulldogtragic]

I pretty much agree with the consensus of this thread so far.

Looking at free agents who went last year around Cooney's agae, the Saints got pick 13 for Goddard and Port got pick 30 for Pearce. I would say we would get a pick around the 20 mark for Coons if he were to leave.

When it comes to trading players or letting them go, I think fans can often disregard loyalty as being purely sentimental and not making sense in the cut and thrust of the modern game. I believe showing loyalty can be very logical and make good business sense. If a player is well liked and has been a very good servant of the club (as Cooney has been) and their club burns them, how can it expect loyalty going the other way when their valuable mates/team mates are in contract discussions?

If Cooney wants to stay and accept a reasonable offer we have to keep him IMO. The ideal situation for us is Cooney leaving on his own terms and us receiving a pick around the 20 mark. We aren't going to be even around the finals for at least a couple of years and I think Cooney will be pretty much done by then. While he seems a good enough bloke and well liked, I don't think he has the attitude that will help develop kids.
Spot on Rocco. Looking forward long term, pick 20 would be a great option for us.

[Rocco Jones]

Spot on Rocco. Looking forward long term, pick 20 would be a great option for us.

Yep. If they were all robots, I'd do pick 20 for Cooney in a heart beat. However, as I mentioned, the logical sentiment means we should at least appear to try to keep him.

[LostDoggy]

With all due respect to Cooney, no one is gonna want him unless they look at the stats without watching the games if he keeps up his form of the last couple of weeks.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry but Adam has to learn to play for the benefit of the whole team. And given that he cannot run out full games any more, week after week, then I think it is entirely appropriate to expect him to perform a different role. If Boyd and Cooney have to step away so that younger players can be given more time to learn and gain valuable experience, then so be it.

Of course it would be better for Cooney to be in the middle for much longer, but really, if we are to progress the youngsters as fast as we can then we have to push Libba, Wallis, Macrae et al into these roles. It's up to senior players to do what they can to facilitate and expedite the improvement of our next core group of players, and if that means they have to play out of their comfort zones for some of the time, then they must do that, as an example to others, as teachers and as generals on the field.

I'm looking at where we are in 3 years, not where we are in one week.

[FrediKanoute]

I'd say we back him in. We wouldn't get much for him, and I'm not comfortable just shipping them off when we perceive they're beyond their best. Play him forward with stints in the middle, as others have said the back line experiment simply doesn't work.

I understand where you are coming from. I love Cooney as a player and the burst through the middle, ball in hand, but hanging on to guys is part of the reason we are where we are. We need to ruthless in our list management.

What happens with Cooney next year comes down what role the club wants him to play and whether he can be effective in that role for the price the club is willing to pay. I appreciate that the knee has ruined him as a footballer, but great footballer's adapt and Cooney hasnt. He has all the tools to be a fantastic half back, so the question is why is he so ineffective in that role?

[Remi Moses]

Dead right. ^^
Good post from Metal as well. Would love players to play great football for an eternity, but that's fantasy.
List management has to be ruthless, and fans should not laud players to much.

[F'scary]

Question, if he stays and accepts a reduced salary commensurate with where he is at physically, would we offer him more than 1 year?

I wouldn't.

[SlimPickens]

Question, if he stays and accepts a reduced salary commensurate with where he is at physically, would we offer him more than 1 year?

I wouldn't.

I think it would be very reckless to give Adam more than a year. I would look at a certain performance based contract in which he would have to play x games. A year to year set up is the only way I see Adam stay at the dogs long term.

Of course he may not want to do that, and so be it. We need to do what's best for the list long term.

[bulldogtragic]

I just think of Norf and Hamish Mcintosh. Could have got a first rounder but held on for too long and he left as a FA for nothing.

[LostDoggy]

I just think of Norf and Hamish Mcintosh. Could have got a first rounder but held on for too long and he left as a FA for nothing.

IIRC North got around Pick 30 for H (and won)

[bulldogtragic]

IIRC North got around Pick 30 for H (and won)
Really, WTF!

Then Cooney as a 27yo Brownlow Medallist is worth picks 1, 2 & 3.

Happy to eat my words, but underlines the argument if compo is that good.

[AndrewP6]

IIRC North got around Pick 30 for H (and won)


Really, WTF!

Then Cooney as a 27yo Brownlow Medallist is worth picks 1, 2 & 3.

Happy to eat my words, but underlines the argument if compo is that good.

Geelong gave North pick 36 for McIntosh.

[G-Mo77]

Geelong gave North pick 36 for McIntosh.

Exactly and if we let Cooney walk don't expect generous compensation.

[bulldogtragic]

Geelong gave North pick 36 for McIntosh.
I will just be in the corner eating my own words if anybody wants me.

[bulldogtragic]

Exactly and if we let Cooney walk don't expect generous compensation.
What does this 27yo brownlow medallist not have that Goddard has?

[1eyedog]

Question, if he stays and accepts a reduced salary commensurate with where he is at physically, would we offer him more than 1 year?

I wouldn't.

Absolutely, you're effectively saying we'll pay him what he's worth. He's a champion of the club. You don't throw them on the scrap heap - he deserves more respect. As others have stayed we need to use Adam the right way.

[G-Mo77]

What does this 27yo brownlow medallist not have that Goddard has?

Two good knees for starters, as well as uninterrupted seasons of footy.

If you are prepared to just let Adam Cooney walk away and expect the AFL to do the right thing by us you're going to be very disappointed. We've got to broker a deal if we decide not to keep him, it's that simple.

[chef]

What does this 27yo brownlow medallist not have that Goddard has?
Doesn't the size of the new salary count with the compo?

No way Cooney will be offered the same coin as Goddard is on now.

[w3design]

Am totally against offering Cooney up as trade bait. If he elects to go of his own volition, that is different.

Is it likely he will go back to Germany at season's end for a repeat treatment to his knee?

I agree that he is being played in the wrong position [ hardly the first or only one there]. HFF, with bursts on the ball makes way more sense to me. Would people see his potential role next year as filling the role Gia is currently playing?.... HF, occasional mid, some times sub burst player.

[chef]

Am totally against offering Cooney up as trade bait. If he elects to go of his own volition, that is different.

Is it likely he will go back to Germany at season's end for a repeat treatment to his knee?

I agree that he is being played in the wrong position [ hardly the first or only one there]. HFF, with bursts on the ball makes way more sense to me. Would people see his potential role next year as filling the role Gia is currently playing?.... HF, occasional mid, some times sub burst player.

He can't be trade bait, he's uncontracted at the end of the year and if he wants to leave he'll choose which ever club he wants and we will get whatever compo the AFL decides he worth.

[Greystache]

He can't be trade bait, he's uncontracted at the end of the year and if he wants to leave he'll choose which ever club he wants and we will get whatever compo the AFL decides he worth.

He's a restricted free agent, he goes nowhere unless we let him. Trade is his best option to ensure he gets to where he wants to go.

[azabob]

I get the feeling this is the Lake scenario all over again. The coach has told him he is playing mainly defence rather than midfield for the good of the team. I will be more surprised if he stays than goes.

[chef]

He's a restricted free agent, he goes nowhere unless we let him. Trade is his best option to ensure he gets to where he wants to go.

Like Goddard?

He goes nowhere if we match the offer. Plus we're not going to keep him if he doesn't want to be here even if we could match it.

[Greystache]

Like Goddard?

He goes nowhere if we match the offer. Plus we're not going to keep him if he doesn't want to be here even if we could match it.

St Kilda were happy to let him go, if they wanted him to stay he'd still be there.

[Bulldog4life]

I get the feeling this is the Lake scenario all over again. The coach has told him he is playing mainly defence rather than midfield for the good of the team. I will be more surprised if he stays than goes.

Coons might be missing his mate Bwian.

[Mantis]

I get the feeling this is the Lake scenario all over again. The coach has told him he is playing mainly defence rather than midfield for the good of the team. I will be more surprised if he stays than goes.

How is that going for us?

[bulldogtragic]

How is that going for us?
As good as the other top 5 B&F player who was played out of position and then out of the side.

[azabob]

How is that going for us?

It's going terribly, not saying it is right. Just my take on things.

[azabob]

Coons might be missing his mate Bwian.

In all seriousness weren't Brian and Hargrave Cooney's best mates at the club?

[AndrewP6]

In all seriousness weren't Brian and Hargrave Cooney's best mates at the club?

Yes, they were good mates - and if their Twitterings are any indication, they still are.

[Ghost Dog]

Absolutely, you're effectively saying we'll pay him what he's worth. He's a champion of the club. You don't throw them on the scrap heap - he deserves more respect. As others have stayed we need to use Adam the right way.

What do you think of his effort on this or that?

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2013-06-27/this-or-that-will-minson

Bit too cool for school Coon Dog.

[azabob]

Ok - I am going through two phases

I hope he stays, to, I'm not fussed if he goes.

After today's game he certainly is a point of difference for our midfield and I want him to stay.

I would offer him two years, with an option of a third. I'm sure he'd want three at least.

[comrade]

Ok - I am going through two phases

I hope he stays, to, I'm not fussed if he goes.

After today's game he certainly is a point of difference for our midfield and I want him to stay.

I would offer him two years, with an option of a third. I'm sure he'd want three at least.

I'd offer him one year with an option for 2 if his health holds up.

[LostDoggy]

He's had a very good few weeks has Adam

[bornadog]

Sign him up now, he is a class act.

[LostDoggy]

I'd offer him one year with an option for 2 if his health holds up.

You are joking? The guy is a gun, an absolute gun. We have already lost a gun by not signing him up when we could have and you would like to play the same game again? We have to sign him immediately, forget his knee and show some faith. You do not play chicken with a star in today's market period. We have been burned once before if we lose Adam i will lose alot of faith in what we are doing.

Despite some of the rubbish that gets posted about him i will never lose faith in him and look forward to seeing him tear Games open for years to come.

[Ghost Dog]

As long as blood keeps being injected into the knee, there's no reason his form should fall away at his age.

Correct?

[LostDoggy]

You are joking? The guy is a gun, an absolute gun. We have already lost a gun by not signing him up when we could have and you would like to play the same game again? We have to sign him immediately, forget his knee and show some faith. You do not play chicken with a star in today's market period. We have been burned once before if we lose Adam i will lose alot of faith in what we are doing.

Despite some of the rubbish that gets posted about him i will never lose faith in him and look forward to seeing him tear Games open for years to come.

I want him to stay, but on our terms, not his. Team over individual.

[LostDoggy]

I want him to stay, but on our terms, not his. Team over individual.

Of course no one is bigger than the team. I'd expect he would know his next contract would have to be slightly
Reduced but if we play games with the length then shame on us if he walks.

[Eastdog]

Adam is a very important part of our team who would be a big loss if he left. The one thing that is of concern is that his injury prone. If that knee goes then that may be it for him but he was very good yesterday.

[Mofra]

As long as blood keeps being injected into the knee, there's no reason his form should fall away at his age.

Correct?
He will certainly be getting paid less next year than this year due to his knee, and I hope we think we are better able to manage his injuries (knowing him so well) than opposition clubs.

I wont begrudge him if he goes, but I'd prefer him to stay. The likely compo pick is in the middle of the Howard/Tutt range or close to the Hrovat/Faulkner/Minson range depending depending on how we want to judge the worth of AFL Band 2 compensation.

[LostDoggy]

He will certainly be getting paid less next year than this year due to his knee, and I hope we think we are better able to manage his injuries (knowing him so well) than opposition clubs.

I wont begrudge him if he goes, but I'd prefer him to stay. The likely compo pick is in the middle of the Howard/Tutt range or close to the Hrovat/Faulkner/Minson range depending depending on how we want to judge the worth of AFL Band 2 compensation.

The compensation is not worth losing. A. A gun midfielder. B. Showing faith in an injured player.

If his knee was suspect you would expect him to slow towards the end of the season not get better?

Cooney , Griffen and Libba getting supply from Minson is right up with the best midfield in the land, why would we want to risk losing that is beyond me?

[soupman]

I agree the compensation will not be worth Cooney. And don't forget Cooney is protecting guys like Macrae from being tagged in the manner that we want a key forward in the side to protect Jones from the best defender.

[mighty_west]

There is no way known we should get rid of Coons, an absolute champion of our club and pretty much back to his best, id have no issues signing him up for another 2 seasons bursting the packs alongside Griff & co, and his form this season was exactly what the team needed alongside the in & under brigade.

[Ozza]

I think 2 years is appropriate. Would be happy to hear it is done sooner rather than later.

[bornadog]

I think 2 years is appropriate. Would be happy to hear it is done sooner rather than later.

Cooney has always stated he will probably only play till he is 30 years old, but that was before he sort the treatment from Germany.

I find it unbelievable that supporters are willing to let go champions of our club. These guys are more value at the club than not, even though they may not be contributing on field as much as they use to. I don't mean holding on to champions past their use by date, but guys at age 28 years old, surely they should still be there for the next two years. A prime example of this sort of stupidity is Melbourne.

[mighty_west]

Cooney has always stated he will probably only play till he is 30 years old, but that was before he sort the treatment from Germany.

I find it unbelievable that supporters are willing to let go champions of our club. These guys are more value at the club than not, even though they may not be contributing on field as much as they use to. I don't mean holding on to champions past their use by date, but guys at age 28 years old, surely they should still be there for the next two years. A prime example of this sort of stupidity is Melbourne.

Not to mention the experience the younger guys will have learning on field from these guys, we've seen how tough things have heen for Liam Jones as an example once Barry Hall retired, Hrovat, MacRae, JJ etc will be far better off in the long run playing alongside Adam .

[SlimPickens]

I think 2 years is appropriate. Would be happy to hear it is done sooner rather than later.

Personally I'd go one year with the option of a second. Adam is certainly playing much better but I'm still not convinced he wants to stay.

If he can continue his current form , I certainly hope he does.

[LostDoggy]

Cooney has always stated he will probably only play till he is 30 years old, but that was before he sort the treatment from Germany.

I find it unbelievable that supporters are willing to let go champions of our club. These guys are more value at the club than not, even though they may not be contributing on field as much as they use to. I don't mean holding on to champions past their use by date, but guys at age 28 years old, surely they should still be there for the next two years. A prime example of this sort of stupidity is Melbourne.

Offset that against the stupidity of letting one player dictate terms. Say we sign him for a decent enough wage for 3 years, then he does his knee proper and it's reco time.

No, we offer him everything he is worth, not a dollar less, not a dollar more, likewise on length of contract.

Cooney is a champion. But he is not the entire team. See Geelong and Ablett Jnr for reference.

[LostDoggy]

On the one hand posters want us to trade in a gun forward, but on the other, they are not willing to give up anyone who is a champion. By trading no-one who any good, you get no-one in return. You then either go for an average player who might do well with us or who probably won't, or you use the draft to go young and hope they develop over a number of years. But let's not have all the hand wringing about our desperate need for a talented, proven big forward. You just won't get one if you aren't serious about who we let go, whether it is a top line player or top line draft picks.

By trading Cooney you might be trading out a gun mid fielder in exchange for for a decent forward. It becomes what the club needs most for the future, and what players nearing the end of their 20's have left to offer. Cooney's value is high enough right now, I would have thought, and it is only likely to decline over time.

Solution. Don't trade anyone and don't complain about our forward line. Hope our recruiters have their eye on a smokey and rely on our draft picks.

[chef]

I'd be happy for us to put a reasonable 2 year offer on the table for him.

[mighty_west]

On the one hand posters want us to trade in a gun forward, but on the other, they are not willing to give up anyone who is a champion. By trading no-one who any good, you get no-one in return. You then either go for an average player who might do well with us or who probably won't, or you use the draft to go young and hope they develop over a number of years. But let's not have all the hand wringing about our desperate need for a talented, proven big forward. You just won't get one if you aren't serious about who we let go, whether it is a top line player or top line draft picks.

By trading Cooney you might be trading out a gun mid fielder in exchange for for a decent forward. It becomes what the club needs most for the future, and what players nearing the end of their 20's have left to offer. Cooney's value is high enough right now, I would have thought, and it is only likely to decline over time.

Solution. Don't trade anyone and don't complain about our forward line. Hope our recruiters have their eye on a smokey and rely on our draft picks.

Would you trade Minson & pick 4 to GWS to acquire the number one pick and select Boyd?

[mighty_west]

Offset that against the stupidity of letting one player dictate terms. Say we sign him for a decent enough wage for 3 years, then he does his knee proper and it's reco time.

No, we offer him everything he is worth, not a dollar less, not a dollar more, likewise on length of contract.

Cooney is a champion. But he is not the entire team. See Geelong and Ablett Jnr for reference.

IMO he's worth a 2 year contract, there are risks with all players on every list from the day they're drafted, Steve Johnson failed a medical test with the Pies many years ago, I bet Geelong are rapt he stayed with the club.

[GVGjr]

I think 2 years is appropriate. Would be happy to hear it is done sooner rather than later.

That's what I would offer. Make it a good and fair offer but don't pay overs by too much. We can always revisit and extend the contract at the end of the first year if he is back to somewhere near his best.
Consistency will be the issue for him going forward I think.

[boydogs]

Personally I'd go one year with the option of a second.

This may be a stupid question, but what does it mean to have the option of a second? It sounds like saying to the player "we guarantee you 1 year, if you suck then see ya later, if you're good we get to keep for you 2 years without increasing your pay", which to a player would be worse than a 1 year deal

[Remi Moses]

You are joking? The guy is a gun, an absolute gun. We have already lost a gun by not signing him up when we could have and you would like to play the same game again? We have to sign him immediately, forget his knee and show some faith. You do not play chicken with a star in today's market period. We have been burned once before if we lose Adam i will lose alot of faith in what we are doing.

Despite some of the rubbish that gets posted about him i will never lose faith in him and look forward to seeing him tear Games open for years to come.

Disagree, Ward was 21 Adam is 28 for start.
His knee hasn't allowed him to play a consistent season since 08, so hence the club should not pay overs .It's not " rubbish" to do what's best for our CLUB over the individual.

[Lowey33]

He's shown plenty this season, definitely that he has a bit left in his tank. And if he felt he needed to pursue his premiership aspirations elsewhere, I think a first round compensation pick is in order. Saying that I believe he'd stay as I really think he could still play finals at the dogs before he's finished. Take port as an example as to what can be achieved with a good preseason. It's fair to suggest well still have a top 5 pick this year, and with room in the cap to sign a couple of our own free agents, our list still has the potential to change considerably between now and round 1 next season. I'd hate to see him go, but as has been mentioned, a good servant of the club, we should try and get a trade that will benefit player and club. I think when Hrovat finishes his time at the dogs, he'll make us forget Brian Lake.
Anyway, I've got another question.....has Gia done enough to be considered for another season next year? I think he's been fantastic, both starting as sub, and starting the past month. I reckon we need his leadership and ability in our forward half, more than not.

[boydogs]

Anyway, I've got another question.....has Gia done enough to be considered for another season next year? I think he's been fantastic, both starting as sub, and starting the past month. I reckon we need his leadership and ability in our forward half, more than not.

Seems cooked to me, been the sub or subbed off very regularly

[LostDoggy]

He's shown plenty this season, definitely that he has a bit left in his tank. And if he felt he needed to pursue his premiership aspirations elsewhere, I think a first round compensation pick is in order. Saying that I believe he'd stay as I really think he could still play finals at the dogs before he's finished. Take port as an example as to what can be achieved with a good preseason. It's fair to suggest well still have a top 5 pick this year, and with room in the cap to sign a couple of our own free agents, our list still has the potential to change considerably between now and round 1 next season. I'd hate to see him go, but as has been mentioned, a good servant of the club, we should try and get a trade that will benefit player and club. I think when Hrovat finishes his time at the dogs, he'll make us forget Brian Lake.
Anyway, I've got another question.....has Gia done enough to be considered for another season next year? I think he's been fantastic, both starting as sub, and starting the past month. I reckon we need his leadership and ability in our forward half, more than not.


Seems cooked to me, been the sub or subbed off very regularly

Seems he has sights set on coaching, love Gia but want to see him leaving on a high, not off the injury list.

[LostDoggy]

Disagree, Ward was 21 Adam is 28 for start.
His knee hasn't allowed him to play a consistent season since 08, so hence the club should not pay overs .It's not " rubbish" to do what's best for our CLUB over the individual.

The "rubbish" that i was talking about is in the Cooney Gone thread if you want to be reminded. I have never said to pay overs for him and have only mentioned a reduced contract and i seriously doubt Adam would be asking for overs. The sticking point I would imagine would be the length, I can see Adam wanting 3 years which I can't see a problem with if the 3rd has a number of games clause attached.

As for Callan, yes he was 21 but like Adam we had a chance to sign him and instead waited and gave Sheedy a chance to sink his hooks in.....Would you like to play that funky music again Remi???

[Twodogs]

This may be a stupid question, but what does it mean to have the option of a second? It sounds like saying to the player "we guarantee you 1 year, if you suck then see ya later, if you're good we get to keep for you 2 years without increasing your pay", which to a player would be worse than a 1 year deal




It means that there are stipulations put on what is considered a satisfactory first year of the contract and if those stipulations are met then the second year kicks in.


In Adam's case it would be number of games played, a medical/fitness check and that sort of thing.

[MrMahatma]

Offset that against the stupidity of letting one player dictate terms. Say we sign him for a decent enough wage for 3 years, then he does his knee proper and it's reco time.

No, we offer him everything he is worth, not a dollar less, not a dollar more, likewise on length of contract.

Cooney is a champion. But he is not the entire team. See Geelong and Ablett Jnr for reference.
Why offer anyone a contract longer than 1 year then? All players could be one training mishap from a reco.

[1eyedog]

Offset that against the stupidity of letting one player dictate terms. Say we sign him for a decent enough wage for 3 years, then he does his knee proper and it's reco time.

No, we offer him everything he is worth, not a dollar less, not a dollar more, likewise on length of contract.

Cooney is a champion. But he is not the entire team. See Geelong and Ablett Jnr for reference.

Cooney has as much chance needing a reco than any other player so we sould not factor that into calculations. The injury is to the patella, there is no ACL damage.

Two years is a reasonable contract length IMO, we've been pretty good to Adam over the past 3 years and so we should have given what he has given back to us.

[1eyedog]

The "rubbish" that i was talking about is in the Cooney Gone thread if you want to be reminded. I have never said to pay overs for him and have only mentioned a reduced contract and i seriously doubt Adam would be asking for overs. The sticking point I would imagine would be the length, I can see Adam wanting 3 years which I can't see a problem with if the 3rd has a number of games clause attached.

As for Callan, yes he was 21 but like Adam we had a chance to sign him and instead waited and gave Sheedy a chance to sink his hooks in.....Would you like to play that funky music again Remi???

Pretty sure we had some other big signings in 2011 (Murph and Boyd) so it may not have been as easy as 'lets sign him'.

[Mofra]

By trading Cooney you might be trading out a gun mid fielder in exchange for for a decent forward. It becomes what the club needs most for the future, and what players nearing the end of their 20's have left to offer. Cooney's value is high enough right now, I would have thought, and it is only likely to decline over time.
Would we trade Jones for a player with a serious knee issue whose own club wont give him more than a two year contract? That's what we are effectively asking other teams to do.

Only a team challenging for a flag now would look at him, and they are all under salary cap pressure.

[Mofra]

This may be a stupid question, but what does it mean to have the option of a second? It sounds like saying to the player "we guarantee you 1 year, if you suck then see ya later, if you're good we get to keep for you 2 years without increasing your pay", which to a player would be worse than a 1 year deal
Similar to Dal santo's contract - based on performance and an end of year medical.

[LostDoggy]

Would you trade Minson & pick 4 to GWS to acquire the number one pick and select Boyd?

I don't think Boyd will be on the table.

No, I wouldn't be trading Minson in a fit. There is no-one to replace him. Campbell is way off and looked lost last time he played in the seniors.

I want to keep pick 4 or 5 for an elite user of the ball, a tough midfielder of some height.

Which probably means that we cannot get a big named forward.

As I said, I just hope our recruiters are on the ball with this one and can pluck someone from obscurity, like a Podsiadley.

[1eyedog]

Would we trade Jones for a player with a serious knee issue whose own club wont give him more than a two year contract? That's what we are effectively asking other teams to do.

Only a team challenging for a flag now would look at him, and they are all under salary cap pressure.

Essendon need his type big time and they have resources we need big time. Just saying.

[mighty_west]

I don't think Boyd will be on the table.



I honestly don't think he will be either, just Sheeds spinning his crap as usual. GWS with a forward line of Patton, Boyd and Cameron who also has the legs to play up the field at times is far too juicey prospect for them.

There should be other options though depending on cost, Gumbleton, White, Mitch Thorp etc with the first two most likely going to cost a second round pick.

[azabob]

There should be other options though depending on cost, Gumbleton, White, Mitch Thorp etc with the first two most likely going to cost a second round pick.

Fremantle is also in the mix for Jessie White.

[1eyedog]

Fremantle is also in the mix for Jessie White.

He was good against the Tigers

[LostDoggy]

Firmly of the opinion for a two year contract with the medical / games played option for the second year.

Load the first year more heavily, depending on TPP's, to reward for his second half season form.

Don't pay anything excessive.

He's been good, and i'd like to see him be a one club player, but he's not the be-all, and a mid second round compo should be able to net us a talented youngster from this draft.

Remembering we have a pick 4/5 which should net a almost ready-made runner in this draft, Higgins to come back, JJ also. We have coverage, not exact, but we should be able to fill his role within a season should he not re-sign.

[always right]

I'd be happier to hold onto Cooney and try and engineer a trade for Higgins....who some clubs might see greater upside in. Personally I don't think Higgins is ever going to be the player we want him to be...injuries or no injuries.

Sorry....gone off topic.

[Remi Moses]

I honestly don't think he will be either, just Sheeds spinning his crap as usual. GWS with a forward line of Patton, Boyd and Cameron who also has the legs to play up the field at times is far too juicey prospect for them.

There should be other options though depending on cost, Gumbleton, White, Mitch Thorp etc with the first two most likely going to cost a second round pick.

:mad:
I'd be mad if we gave up a second round pick for those players.
White's had a good game or two but that doesn't constitute a second rounder.
Third rounder for Thorp White or Gumbleton.
If I had an option of the three I 'd take White.

[LostDoggy]

Would rather try to develop a McCarthy type with our second round pick then trade for Gumby or White, they come cheap or not at all.

[bulldogtragic]

Would rather try to develop a McCarthy type with our second round pick then trade for Gumby or White, they come cheap or not at all.
Agreed, White and Gumby are risks at this price. If we're taking risks, Garlett or Marsh would be more up my alley at this price.

[mighty_west]

:mad:
I'd be mad if we gave up a second round pick for those players.
White's had a good game or two but that doesn't constitute a second rounder.
Third rounder for Thorp White or Gumbleton.
If I had an option of the three I 'd take White.

The problem with White is that he's just really starting to hit good form as the multi ruckman/forward player, still young in full health, he is also a good set shot for goal, I really cannot see the Swans just giving him away for a 3rd rounder plus the potential bidding war with Freo and any other sides looking for a key forward.

Gumbleton's a Bomber, so they'll naturally want the earth for him even though his body looks shot, too risky imo.

Thorp is one I'm taking an interest in, every man and his dog knows he has the talent, just that dickhead factor to work through, but from recent reports things sound quite positive.

[Hotdog60]

I'm starting to like the Thorp idea too. Knows where the goals are.

[Remi Moses]

The problem with White is that he's just really starting to hit good form as the multi ruckman/forward player, still young in full health, he is also a good set shot for goal, I really cannot see the Swans just giving him away for a 3rd rounder plus the potential bidding war with Freo and any other sides looking for a key forward.

Gumbleton's a Bomber, so they'll naturally want the earth for him even though his body looks shot, too risky imo.

Thorp is one I'm taking an interest in, every man and his dog knows he has the talent, just that dickhead factor to work through, but from recent reports things sound quite positive.

I'd take White over Gumby. A third rounder or we go pre- season draft.
White's better when the ball hits the turf. Thorpe playing in Tassie should be a rookie pick or late pick.

[G-Mo77]

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL 39m

Adam Cooney future going to go down to wire .. Certain to finish season then head into unknown of free agency/trade period

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL 38m

Will Cooney be the next Lake? Win/win for both parties? Hope not .. Long live the one club player

Don't know if he's got any inside knowledge? I'd like him to stay but I think he'll choose the shot at a winning team. He just doesn't come across as the mentoring type and it'll be another season of that.

[Remi Moses]

Yep, tend to agree

[azabob]

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL 39m

Adam Cooney future going to go down to wire .. Certain to finish season then head into unknown of free agency/trade period

Mark Stevens ‏@Stevo7AFL 38m

Will Cooney be the next Lake? Win/win for both parties? Hope not .. Long live the one club player

Don't know if he's got any inside knowledge? I'd like him to stay but I think he'll choose the shot at a winning team. He just doesn't come across as the mentoring type and it'll be another season of that.

Crap it is a win / win. Who on our list has Cooney's skill set? At least with lake we had a Roughed and Talia coming through.

[bornadog]

Crap it is a win / win. Who on our list has Cooney's skill set? At least with lake we had a Roughed and Talia coming through.

If we lose another champion from our club it will be another long line of mis-management over a long period. I thought when we got a list manager this sort of thing would be something from the past never to be seen again.

Lets see what happens.

[LostDoggy]

But if he wants a shot at a premiership BAD? We can't give him that.

[Remi Moses]

If we lose another champion from our club it will be another long line of mis-management over a long period. I thought when we got a list manager this sort of thing would be something from the past never to be seen again.

Lets see what happens.

Complete nonsense . Win Win situation .
Cooney wants a shot at a title( ain't going to happen with us)
If he wants more money than what his worth, he can go !
Some of our supporters have gotta stop lauding fawning over players.

[LostDoggy]

Complete nonsense . Win Win situation .
Cooney wants a shot at a title( ain't going to happen with us)
If he wants more money than what his worth, he can go !
Some of our supporters have gotta stop lauding fawning over players.

Cooney's only 27, if his knee holds up like it is this year we could be in contention again before he retires

[Remi Moses]

Cooney's only 27, if his knee holds up like it is this year we could be in contention again before he retires

That's "if" his knee holds up. I've got not issue with him staying.
Just not paying " overs" for him.

[LostDoggy]

That's "if" his knee holds up. I've got not issue with him staying.
Just not paying " overs" for him.

What "if" his knee gets more treatment and actually holds up for another 4 or 5 years? That would allow him to have another full pre-season under his belt and his confidence to grow even further. Its all what "if" if you live your life thinking what "if" you end up sitting on the couch with an empty box of Donuts.

If we let him walk god help us, because I have no doubt he will make us very very sorry at his next club.

[chef]

If we lose another champion from our club it will be another long line of mis-management over a long period. I thought when we got a list manager this sort of thing would be something from the past never to be seen again.

Lets see what happens.

Maybe the list manager see's a decent draft pick as a better option?

[1eyedog]

Maybe the list manager see's a decent draft pick as a better option?

Do you think Adam could play in our next finals tilt? I think we need to keep this as a focus rather than just completely reload with youth. Murphy, Boyd, Cross, Gia will all be gone, it leaves us a bit light on for experience. Griff, Minson and Coons will potentially be the 'old guard' for our next tilt and will all be around the 30 mark, Minson a bit older. I know Cooney said he is unlikely to play on beyond 30 but if he is playing finals and is fit who knows? If we are playing finals in 2015 which is a possibility do we need a 29 year old Cooney if fit? I would think so, same applies to 2016 if he wants to / can play on.

[chef]

Do you think Adam could play in our next finals tilt? I think we need to keep this as a focus rather than just completely reload with youth. Murphy, Boyd, Cross, Gia will all be gone, it leaves us a bit light on for experience. Griff, Minson and Coons will potentially be the 'old guard' for our next tilt and will all be around the 30 mark, Minson a bit older. I know Cooney said he is unlikely to play on beyond 30 but if he is playing finals and is fit who knows? If we are playing finals in 2015 which is a possibility do we need a 29 year old Cooney if fit? I would think so, same applies to 2016 if he wants to / can play on.

Id prefer him to see out his time as a Dog, but if he wants to chase a flag and we're adequately compensated then im fine with that too.

[KT31]

Id prefer him to see out his time as a Dog, but if he wants to chase a flag and we're adequately compensated then im fine with that too.

He is a champion and the compensation would need to be in our favour, before I got on board.

[LostDoggy]

He is a champion and the compensation would need to be in our favour, before I got on board.

Could bring in a factor of reverse compensation:

Adam: I want to chase a premiership. Hawks/Geel/Syd have offered me $550K for two years, but i'll stay if you give me $600K

Dogs offered say pick 25.

What compensation would you be after KT ?

[stefoid]

I think we need to be really careful about ejecting any of our last remaining decent mature players.

If we go too far in the draft picks and youth direction, we will end up a pale imitation of the expansion clubs.

Cooney, Higgins, Grif, Minson, Williams, Picken. Id want a real godfather offer to consider trading any of these guys out. They are the edge we have over the expansion clubs - guys who are certain best 22 when fit and have the experience, including finals experience.

We can only cross our fingers that Murph, Boyd and Morris have several more years left in the tank.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think we need to be really careful about ejecting any of our last remaining decent mature players.

If we go too far in the draft picks and youth direction, we will end up a pale imitation of the expansion clubs.

Cooney, Higgins, Grif, Minson, Williams, Picken. Id want a real godfather offer to consider trading any of these guys out. They are the edge we have over the expansion clubs - guys who are certain best 22 when fit and have the experience, including finals experience.

We can only cross our fingers that Murph, Boyd and Morris have several more years left in the tank.
I wouldn't be unhappy if Higgins and Williams were moved on being so injury prone. Our list was refreshed this year with good inclusions from other clubs like Young and Stevens who should have long term careers with the Bulldogs. There is still a further clean out required to further improve the list before we can hope to be a final 8 team again.

[LostDoggy]

If we lose another champion from our club it will be another long line of mis-management over a long period. I thought when we got a list manager this sort of thing would be something from the past never to be seen again.

Lets see what happens.

I understand your passion, mate, I like Cooney too. But this is a bit silly. He is a free agent — if he really wants to go, he's going to go. If we match the offer and make him wait another 2 years, so he leaves us then, either way he's gone before our next finals tilt and we get even less in return.

The situation — to me, at least — is quite simple: If he wants to stay, he'll stay, if not, he'll go. No amount of bleating about it is going to help, the club is fairly powerless on this front given our list.

To claim mis-management is to claim that these factors are within the club's control, and to a large extent they are not. They are simply blokes trying to do the best they can to build a Rolls Royce on a Datsun budget.


Complete nonsense . Win Win situation .
Cooney wants a shot at a title( ain't going to happen with us)
If he wants more money than what his worth, he can go !
Some of our supporters have gotta stop lauding fawning over players.

Amen.

[G-Mo77]

End thread...

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-midfielder-adam-cooney-expected-to-re-sign-at-seasons-end/story-fndv8weh-1226689071996

[GVGjr]

End thread...

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-midfielder-adam-cooney-expected-to-re-sign-at-seasons-end/story-fndv8weh-1226689071996

Sounds good. I hope both parties can strike a reasonable and respectful deal.

[Go_Dogs]

End thread...

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-midfielder-adam-cooney-expected-to-re-sign-at-seasons-end/story-fndv8weh-1226689071996

Great news, thanks G-Mo.

[KT31]

Could bring in a factor of reverse compensation:

Adam: I want to chase a premiership. Hawks/Geel/Syd have offered me $550K for two years, but i'll stay if you give me $600K

Dogs offered say pick 25.

What compensation would you be after KT ?

Definitely would have to be in our favour, a early to mid first round pick and or a quality player .
We lack players in his age bracket so the club really needs Cooney, not only for his ability but for his on field leadership, experience and knowledge as well.
Gia has been a great example of its worth this season.

Just read last couple of post so hears hoping all ends up well.

[Twodogs]

I've been in the industry for 12 years and the same business for 12 years and I just felt it was time to move on, so I'm going to take a short sabbatical and reassess," Olarenshaw said.



I wonder if that means he will be working at his parent's paint shop in Sunshine? :)

[Ghost Dog]

Knew he would. It's like my old 1988 Toyota. What I get keeping it far outweighs the value if I tried to hock it off.
And with just 90,000 km's on the clock, It'll serve me for years - just like Adam is going to serve the dogs well!
Do you think he would be flattered to being compared to a Corolla? :)

[1eyedog]

I've been in the industry for 12 years and the same business for 12 years and I just felt it was time to move on, so I'm going to take a short sabbatical and reassess," Olarenshaw said.



I wonder if that means he will be working at his parent's paint shop in Sunshine? :)

It means he is going to vegas to live it up for six weeks and then come back and live off all his investment properties.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I understand your passion, mate, I like Cooney too. But this is a bit silly. He is a free agent — if he really wants to go, he's going to go. If we match the offer and make him wait another 2 years, so he leaves us then, either way he's gone before our next finals tilt and we get even less in return.

The situation — to me, at least — is quite simple: If he wants to stay, he'll stay, if not, he'll go. No amount of bleating about it is going to help, the club is fairly powerless on this front given our list.

To claim mis-management is to claim that these factors are within the club's control, and to a large extent they are not. They are simply blokes trying to do the best they can to build a Rolls Royce on a Datsun budget.



Amen.
What ever happened to good old loyalty where quality people stayed with your club forever? Geelong is a case in point, apart from Ablett where players will do all possible to stay irrespective of the money. Cooney has been well looked after financially at the WB and I reckon he still owes us a good couple of years. We have lost too many Brownlow medalists in the past like Hardie, Dempsey and Templeton and you would like to think that Adam will remain a Bulldog.

[kruder]

People get fooled by possessions.He has been solid yet unspectacular over the past few games. Awful for a month prior to that. I'd like coons to stay but needs to take a massive hair cut if so.

[1eyedog]

People get fooled by possessions.He has been solid yet unspectacular over the past few games. Awful for a month prior to that. I'd like coons to stay but needs to take a massive hair cut if so.

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=1350

He's been nearly as good this year as he was in his 2008 Brownlow year, well, thereabouts, perhaps just not as dynamic. He was down in 2010 / 2011 in a big way but seems to be getting back to top form.

[mighty_west]

People get fooled by possessions.He has been solid yet unspectacular over the past few games. Awful for a month prior to that. I'd like coons to stay but needs to take a massive hair cut if so.

I'm pretty sure he got voted second best on from both coaches against West Coast, im sure coaches don't just look for possessions in their and opposition players when voting.

[always right]

I've been really critical of Cooney up to the last few games...to the point I was comfortable with him leaving. To his credit he's really lifted since being put back in the midfield....mind you it's a shame he doesn't take the same positive attitude when he is asked to play in a position he is unaccustomed to.

I've enjoyed watching him these last few weeks....clearly not the explosive Adam Cooney of old but good value nonetheless.

[bornadog]

I've been really critical of Cooney up to the last few games...to the point I was comfortable with him leaving. To his credit he's really lifted since being put back in the midfield....mind you it's a shame he doesn't take the same positive attitude when he is asked to play in a position he is unaccustomed to.

I've enjoyed watching him these last few weeks....clearly not the explosive Adam Cooney of old but good value nonetheless.

He had a couple of bad weeks following on from his injury and I think he took longer to get back to form. Prior to the injury he was playing well.

[G-Mo77]

I'm pretty sure he got voted second best on from both coaches against West Coast, im sure coaches don't just look for possessions in their and opposition players when voting.

Correct.

I didn't even squeeze him in for a vote but to by defence I could have raffled the 1 - 2 votes. I thought Dahl and Murph were our best on the day. The coaches don't know what they're talking about. ;)

[Ghost Dog]

They greatly assisted in this by letting him run around on his own in the first half. I think a few out there have underestimated Coons. Can be every bit as damaging at goal as Griff.

[The Pie Man]

I didn't see it, but was told Ch 10 reported Hawthorn are chasing him. Generated a bit of discussion on BF I see (I googled the issue which led me to BF for the 1st time in years)

Wouldn't call his re-signing with the Dogs done just yet

[azabob]

I didn't see it, but was told Ch 10 reported Hawthorn are chasing him.

Not hard to put two and two together - heck I came to this conclusion back at the start of July.

Lake scenario mark 2.

1)Playing out of position more than he would like

2) Best mate is Lake

3) Lake would be in his ear saying how good Hawthorn is etc etc etc

4) Hawthorn are close to a flag

[bulldogtragic]

Not hard to put two and two together - heck I came to this conclusion back at the start of July.

Lake scenario mark 2.

1)Playing out of position more than he would like

2) Best mate is Lake

3) Lake would be in his ear saying how good Hawthorn is etc etc etc

4) Hawthorn are close to a flag
If Buddy stays, how could they afford anything near Coon's wage?

[azabob]

If Buddy stays, how could they afford anything near Coon's wage?

Same way they have managed to bring Burgoyne, Gunston, Hale, Lake and Gibson across whilst keeping Rioli, Hodge, Roughead & Mitchell - creative accounting!

[kruder]

Say we offer a 2 year deal what's fair value for him? 400k?

[kruder]

Per year of course

[bornadog]

Say we offer a 2 year deal what's fair value for him? 400k?

How about a performance based contract? You get $400k, but if you meet certain KPI's you get a bonus.

[kruder]

How about a performance based contract? You get $400k, but if you meet certain KPI's you get a bonus.

Yeah agree would be perfect for coons situation.

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah agree would be perfect for coons situation.

Does he get docked for doing silly things with esky lids? ^_^

[LostDoggy]

does he get docked for doing silly things with esky lids? ^_^

straya!

[BornInDroopSt'54]

straya!

There is an 'l' in Australia and an 'n' in Essendon as well as some drugs.

[LostDoggy]

It doesn't matter what we offer its what the Dawks next door offer that counts. He's clearly going to play wait and see what he can get elsewhere so all the power switches to whatever other club decides to offer overs. At that point we can decide if we want to pay or not. The only positive for the club is that we should be able to get a line on what our compensation would be before deciding whether to match (what will probably be) the dawks offer or not.

Mark Stevens just mentioned on Footy Game Day Coons still 50:50 in his book.....

[Dancin' Douggy]

If Adam Cooney leaves as a free agent are we likely to get a band one compensation?

I don't see why not. Number 1 pick. Brownlow medallist. In good form averaging around 30 possessions a week.

Could we be looking at pick 5?

Might not be a bad scenario for us.

IF he decides to go...........

[bulldogtragic]

If Adam Cooney leaves as a free agent are we likely to get a band one compensation?

I don't see why not. Number 1 pick. Brownlow medallist. In good form averaging around 30 possessions a week.

Could we be looking at pick 5?

Might not be a bad scenario for us.

IF he decides to go...........
Compensation is also weighted on market value. That is, the length and value of the other clubs contract. IF, the Goddard deal is considered the test, his offer was $3.6m over 4 years.

So the AFL would have to decide if Goddard deal was way over the threshold, or the mandatory minimum for top compensation.

I'm not convinced Coons on a $1m, two year deal to another club is persuasive enough for a first rounder. Happy to be wrong, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[LostDoggy]

I am concerned about his body language after he has loses a contest. It's like he drops his head and doesn't want to chase. I see similarities with the way Lake played in the last months with us. Is it that he doesn't want to unnecessarily pressure his leg or does he think it's not worth the effort? Sometimes he just stops.

I think his value would be at its highest now. It's the right time for a trade if he is even 1% off being sure about wanting to stay. I note that originally it was said that his treatment (injecting his own blood) would probably become less effective over time and that that they didn't know how long it would last.

I think that it would be high risk to sign him up for any more than a year unless we are certain that the treatment he is undertaking will continue to be as effective beyond that date.

[Maddog37]

He was like that last year Metal with no chasing. Reckon it is his knee and nothing more. Looks very lazy though when he does it.

[DISHLICKERS]

Channel 10 reported on Friday that he is long odds to remain a Bulldog