Skills - what is wrong with us?

[bornadog]

We would have to be the most unskilled side in the AFL. We have very few elite, or even good kickers, we fumble the ball, we hand pass at someone's feet.

Why?

Is it perceived pressure? Do we hurray our decision making? Are we scared we are going to stuff up and we do?

Examples:

* Tutt, can't pick up a ball cleanly

* Stevens fumble fumble fumble.

* Murphy - When he goes to the backline he can't kick to a player, misjudges the distance.

* Kick outs from Full back - continually kick to the opposition.

* field kicking, the worse in the AFL


Is it the players? Is it the skills coaches not working on these areas to help our team?

What can be done, its very frustrating.

[LostDoggy]

Well Below average skills.
Well below average spread + leads.
Two factors together make us look rubbish.

[Eastdog]

Are players born with skills or can coaches help them learn how to be more skillful if they don't have the skills.

[F'scary]

We have a tentativeness about everything we do at the moment. I think it is a lack of confidence. That's what has to be worked on. I remember Eade was confronted with this when he took over and in a fairly short space of time turned it around. The trick seemed to be adopting (what was at first) a very straight forward, instinctive style of play - didn't allow for too much time to think about things.

[Twodogs]

Are players born with skills or can coaches help them learn how to be more skillful if they don't have the skills.


Skills can be taught or we wouldn't have skills coaches in AFL football.

[Twodogs]

We have a tentativeness about everything we do at the moment. I think it is a lack of confidence. That's what has to be worked on. I remember Eade was confronted with this when he took over and in a fairly short space of time turned it around. The trick seemed to be adopting (what was at first) a very straight forward, instinctive style of play - didn't allow for too much time to think about things.


Agreed. We react to situations ATM rather than be proactive.

[Eastdog]

It really let us down today once again.

[bornadog]

Essendon really showed us how to move the ball from one end to the other. The only thing that kept us in the game was the pressure we applied

[LostDoggy]

There were plenty of passages where we did much the same thing though, just ran hard and passed by hand a lot, but unfortunately you only need one player not keeping up and it falls flat.

Many in the crowd screaming “Oh just KICK THE BLOODY THING!” but I felt every time we kicked it we turned it over, I was much happier seeing them run the ball forward.

[bulldogtragic]

From memory Grant had the ball kicked over his head 2 or 3 times leading with space on his opponent, and that's apart from poor decisions not to honour his lead. Once we can fix things like fwd 50 entries, scores will improve.

[F'scary]

It is not enough to be the hardest working team in the comp. We need some finesse.

[LostDoggy]

I'm content with where we are at. Obviously I would love us to be fighting for premiership glory every year. But in reality, we are a club that has a small window of about 3-4 years of challenging for a premiership every 10 years. Until this equalization thing happens (if ever), we just have to wait a few more years before we really start to shine again.

[LostDoggy]

I'm content with where we are at. Obviously I would love us to be fighting for premiership glory every year. But in reality, we are a club that has a small window of about 3-4 years of challenging for a premiership every 10 years. Until this equalization thing happens (if ever), we just have to wait a few more years before we really start to shine again.

Very well said.

[kruder]

We would have to be the most unskilled side in the AFL. We have very few elite, or even good kickers, we fumble the ball, we hand pass at someone's feet.

Why?

Is it perceived pressure? Do we hurray our decision making? Are we scared we are going to stuff up and we do?

Examples:

* Tutt, can't pick up a ball cleanly

* Stevens fumble fumble fumble.

* Murphy - When he goes to the backline he can't kick to a player, misjudges the distance.

* Kick outs from Full back - continually kick to the opposition.

* filed kicking, the worse in the AFL


Is the players? Is it the skills coaches not working on these areas to help oour team?

What can be doen, its very frustrating.

You missed one Coons is still fumbling from the weekend

[Eastdog]

I have to say that our skill level still this year is not up to par. If only we were better in this area then we would be a much much better side. I'm just not sure how we go about fixing this problem.

[bulldogtragic]

It's frustrating Eastie.

Dropping easy marks in the forward 50 from multiple players is just not rewarding the players up the ground who crack in to get it to them.

[Eastdog]

It's frustrating Eastie.

Dropping easy marks in the forward 50 from multiple players is just not rewarding the players up the ground who crack in to get it to them.

Yeah the fear with this is when we take on the very skilled sides. It will be a long day for us. What can Macca do you reckon at training for this to improve or is it more out of his hands. What's are your thoughts on our fitness? Seems we still lapse a lot in our games.

[F'scary]

I think we have improved from when this thread was started. But still a long way to go. Last night against Carton, it was not so much the skill errors when we had the ball, it was more the skill errors when the opposition had the ball:

Allowing the play on from a mark or a free so easily.
Failing to corral.
Losing track of opponents in broken play.
Allowing direct opponents too much space by playing off them all the time.
Sucker punch chasing where two or three of our guys go to the ball carrier thus freeing up their opponents for the dish off;
Over committing - when you are too late to make a difference, it makes things worse if you continue as if you still could. For example, the desperate late attempt to spoil after the ump has blown the whistle for the mark.
Not being able to distinguish between the decoy and the threat.
Not being able to apply zoning tactics.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We would have to be the most unskilled side in the AFL. We have very few elite, or even good kickers, we fumble the ball, we hand pass at someone's feet.

Why?

Is it perceived pressure? Do we hurray our decision making? Are we scared we are going to stuff up and we do?

Examples:

* Tutt, can't pick up a ball cleanly

* Stevens fumble fumble fumble.

* Murphy - When he goes to the backline he can't kick to a player, misjudges the distance.

* Kick outs from Full back - continually kick to the opposition.

* filed kicking, the worse in the AFL


Is the players? Is it the skills coaches not working on these areas to help oour team?

What can be doen, its very frustrating.
This is a good thread. I just wonder whether our strong emphasis on contested footy is coming at the expense of the need to dispose of the ball correctly? I watched yesterday's game between Geelong and Hawthorn in awe of their superior skills. Maybe our poor skills set is why we sit in the bottom four on the ladder? Of our younger players, Hrovat when he is fit to play stands out with such good skills. Talia, Smith and even Macrae as good as he is struggle badly at times. Jones although he is improving has also lacked in this area. There were three glaring examples at the weekend when Boyd, Crameri and Macrae all missed goals which were very gettable. Good skills is a learned art which needs a constant focus on the training track.

[bornadog]

Well massive turnaround in our skills, we are now ranked second in disposal efficiency.


While winning the contested ball has been the Western Bulldogs’ early trademark, in 2014 the Club’s major improvement has been in skill execution.The improvements have been two-fold after eight rounds, both increasing disposal efficiency and simultaneously restricting the opposition’s uncontested possession count, showing the growing accountability of the team.
In pure numbers, the Bulldogs have improved their efficiency by almost five per cent since the same round last season (2013 - 69.3%, 2014 - 74.2%).
The Bulldogs are currently ranked second in the league for average disposal efficiency, as a comparison the 2013 figures would have them in 16th place after eight rounds this season.
While a run of strong performances in the back end of last season saw the team improve their efficiency to 72.6% overall, the Bulldogs have built on that foundation this year.
Limiting the opposition’s effective disposal and uncontested possession count each week also sees the Bulldogs rank first in the league in both statistical categories.
In 2013 the Bulldogs averaged 15 more effective touches than their opponent each week but that number has increased to 25.5 in 2014 – and ranks third in the competition.
While the majority of the personnel in the Club’s top ten ball winners has remained the same, the disposal efficiency of the group has also increased from the end of last season.
In 2013 the top ten possession getters averaged 72.5% disposal efficiency, the equivalent group in 2014 is averaging 75.02% - equating to almost 45 more clean disposals so far this year.
The most striking individual improvements year on year in disposal efficiency from the top ten ball winners are Shaun Higgins (+9.4%), Easton Wood (+9%), Liam Picken (+5.8%) and Jack Macrae (+5.1%).

[Go_Dogs]

The numbers look great when presented like that, don't they.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Are players born with skills or can coaches help them learn how to be more skillful if they don't have the skills.

They are taught from a young age and strong clubs invariably recruit players with good skills. Braybrook where I played junior football had outstanding coaches. Ted Whitten snr, Doug Hawkins and George Bisset all came out of Braybrook and were acknowledged for their fine foot and hand skills on both sides of the body. We currently have few players who can kick with their both right and left feet.
Liam Jones is a classic example of one who has never been taught the skills correctly.
Hrovat is one who knows how to execute the skills correctly. Our MC needs to demand our players practice it's skills vigorously at training to ensure it is brought up to an acceptable level.

[Scorlibo]

The numbers look great when presented like that, don't they.

Does it really surprise many people? If we've been better than last year, but have done worse in a few of the indicators that we performed well in last year, then it makes sense that we've improved other areas.

[Go_Dogs]

Does it really surprise many people? If we've been better than last year, but have done worse in a few of the indicators that we performed well in last year, then it makes sense that we've improved other areas.

I agree, but it suggests we are becoming a well rounded team who are going to be capable in most facets of the game, which I'm not sure everyone would agree on at this point in time.

[F'scary]

Well massive turnaround in our skills, we are now ranked second in disposal efficiency.

Well, I suppose that if 9 players within one metre of each other, hot potato handball to each other once while generally moving backwards towards their own goal and not being able to spread because they are so close that they are in each others way and then the 10th player to get the handball commits a shockingly awful clanger intercepted short pass into the corridor...that's a 90% efficiency rate.

[Scorlibo]

Well, I suppose that if 9 players within one metre of each other, hot potato handball to each other once while generally moving backwards towards their own goal and not being able to spread because they are so close that they are in each others way and then the 10th player to get the handball commits a shockingly awful clanger intercepted short pass into the corridor...that's a 90% efficiency rate.

It would be interesting to have the kicking efficiency stats to see if your theory is correct.

[LostDoggy]

Be interesting to break down those stats into the back, mid and forward areas of the ground. I would suspect that the back and mid stats would mask what has been happening in the forward line.

[LostDoggy]

We were right up there in disposal efficiency during our end of season run too, so in that sense it's not overly surprising.
Our contested game seems to have suffered a bit for the improvement of ball movement though.

[jeemak]

Being more competitive for longer periods in games was always going to result in greater disposal efficiency. We control the ball for longer and absorb pressure better with more considered usage of it (slow movement).

Our test on the efficiency front will come when we actually start taking the game on more regularly, attempting to move it with risky but offensive kicking.

[azabob]

Being more competitive for longer periods in games was always going to result in greater disposal efficiency. We control the ball for longer and absorb pressure better with more considered usage of it (slow movement).

Our test on the efficiency front will come when we actually start taking the game on more regularly, attempting to move it with risky but offensive kicking.

Great summary Jeemak. Going on last year, I wonder if we will start seeing an attacking style of play you mentioned above in the second half of the season?

[1eyedog]

It would be interesting to have the kicking efficiency stats to see if your theory is correct.

Irrelevant if we have been a team that takes the safe option through short kicking which we are doing a lot more of in the back line. This is because there seems to be a clear message to the players this year to control the tempo and as such there has been numerous times when we have effectively stopped the momentum and / or slowed the game down back on our terms. This is just one of quite a few reasons why we have not seen any real blow outs because teams find it harder to get a run on and score against us.

In order to test F'Scary's theory we would probably need to look at kicks over 20 metres because dinky little chips around the ground also skews the data re. efficiency.

Kicks over 20 metres may suggest a better disposal efficiency while kicks under 20 metres may suggest we are creating space, getting separation and / or spreading more effectively from stoppages much better than last year.

[jeemak]

Great summary Jeemak. Going on last year, I wonder if we will start seeing an attacking style of play you mentioned above in the second half of the season?

A few times in these past few weeks there's been examples of frustration within the footy department relating to slow movement. I think we have to evolve that way and saw glimpses of it in patches vs Richmond.

[F'scary]

It would be interesting to have the kicking efficiency stats to see if your theory is correct.

just illustrating how stats can be misleading.