Clubs circle Bulldogs star Cooney

[bornadog]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/mmsalih/285931-tlsnewslandscape_zps5774745a.jpg (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/mmsalih/media/285931-tlsnewslandscape_zps5774745a.jpg.html)

RIVAL clubs are showing growing interest in Adam Cooney as the restricted free agent and the Western Bulldogs remain some way off finalising a new deal.

AFL.com.au revealed in May that the Bulldogs and Cooney had deferred serious contract negotiations until later in the year despite the 27-year-old's impressive start to the season.

Discussions between the Bulldogs and Cooney remain ongoing and amicable, but the parties are not close to signing a new contract.

AFL.com.au understands Cooney remains more likely to stay at the Whitten Oval than leave, but opposition interest in the 2008 Brownlow medallist continues to grow the longer he remains fit and in form.

"Cooney is clearly one of the biggest talents in this year's free agency pool and is one free agent you sense could leave, but any club looking at him has to be prepared to take a risk," one industry insider told AFL.com.au.

Cooney would have attracted huge offers several years ago, but his degenerative right knee will be a massive consideration for clubs considering making a play for him ahead of October's free agency period.

He entered this year on the back of two injury-plagued seasons when his knee limited him to 27 games and made him a shadow of the player he was in 2008.

But post-season treatment in Germany, which involved taking blood from his arm, separating and incubating its growth cells and injecting them into his knee, has helped Cooney train harder and perform better than he has in years.

In 12 games this season, Cooney is averaging more than 23 possessions – his best return since 2010 – and has kicked 13 goals in a new role across half-back.

Cooney missed rounds nine and 10 with a hamstring injury, but has made a strong return in the past four rounds, racking up 26 possessions last Saturday in the Bulldogs' nail-biting win over Greater Western Sydney at Canberra's StarTrack Oval.

The Bulldog star signed his existing contract in May 2010 for a reported $550,000-$600,000 a season. At that time, Gold Coast had approached Cooney to be part of its inaugural list and the right patella he cracked in the 2008 finals series had not yet degenerated to the extent of 2011-12.

Cooney almost certainly faces a hefty pay cut regardless of whether he recommits to the Bulldogs or seeks a fresh start.

The Bulldogs find themselves in a similar position to that St Kilda faced with one of last year's big-name restricted free agents, Brendon Goddard.

St Kilda was compensated with pick No. 13 in last year's national draft for losing Goddard, a selection it included in its trade for Gold Coast ruckman Tom Hickey.

Like St Kilda, the Bulldogs are in a rebuilding phase and will be mindful that under last year's free agency compensation model they will likely receive a second-round pick should Cooney leave.

Based on their current ladder position of 15th, the Bulldogs could expect a pick in the early-mid 20s.

In the event the Bulldogs do not come to terms with Cooney prior to October's free agency period, they can still retain him by matching any opposition offers made then.

[bornadog]

mmmm...... I will be mighty pissed off he we lose Cooney.

[bulldogtragic]

Whose behind this story?

The club or Cooney?

[azabob]

mmmm...... I will be mighty pissed off he we lose Cooney.

BAD - well get ready to be pissed off. I said in another thread late last week that I reckon Cooney is gone at years end, just like Lake was.

[bornadog]

BAD - well get ready to be pissed off. I said in another thread late last week that I reckon Cooney is gone at years end, just like Lake was.

What sort of a club are we?

[jeemak]

What sort of a club are we?

What if he doesn't want to play for us for what we can offer him?

Do you think we should pay Cooney above the odds just to keep him?

[bornadog]

What if he doesn't want to play for us for what we can offer him?

Do you think we should pay Cooney above the odds just to keep him?

The only reason he wouldn't want to play for the club is mistreatment.

Just like any employee in any organisation. You look after them, you manage them well, they will be loyal.

[jeemak]

The only reason he wouldn't want to play for the club is mistreatment.

Just like any employee in any organisation. You look after them, you manage them well, they will be loyal.

What if he can get $100-$150K a year extra elsewhere, over 3 years?

BAD, he'd have to seriously look at taking that and that has nothing to do with mistreatment.

[bulldogtragic]

The only reason he wouldn't want to play for the club is mistreatment.

Just like any employee in any organisation. You look after them, you manage them well, they will be loyal.
I think you have to 'fall in' behind the coach. Sure Lake was an AA FB, but BMac thought the future needed a move. Picken was 3rd in the B&F and has been moved around. Cooney is a brownlow medallist midfielder, but for whatever reason BMac can't/won't play him here permanently. Gotta have faith this is all for the best. You know, short term pain, long term gain etc tc.

[Scraggers]

The only reason he wouldn't want to play for the club is mistreatment.

Just like any employee in any organisation. You look after them, you manage them well, they will be loyal.

What about the want to play in a grand final like Lake ??

Cooney is my favourite player ... has been since he first came to the club as a 17 year old; and it would pains me to see him running around in another teams jumper, but he is past his prime. He probably has three or four years left (if managed appropriately). Might be exactly what a team like Essendon or Freo needs to take them that next step. If we can use the situation to further our cause then I'm (begrudgingly) for it.

[bornadog]

What about the want to play in a grand final like Lake ??

Cooney is my favourite player ... has been since he first came to the club as a 17 year old; and it would pains me to see him running around in another teams jumper, but he is past his prime. He probably has three or four years left (if managed appropriately). Might be exactly what a team like Essendon or Freo needs to take them that next step. If we can use the situation to further our cause then I'm (begrudgingly) for it.

Lake left because he wasn't wanted, the club pushed him out, or I should say the coach. He just said he wanted to play in a grand final to save face.

[chef]

What sort of a club are we?

Hope we aren't becoming a feeder club.

[Greystache]

Lake left because he wasn't wanted, the club pushed him out, or I should say the coach. He just said he wanted to play in a grand final to save face.

Or he spent 2012 trying to get his market currency up so he could move to a new club on a decent contract in 2013 after the disgraceful way he was treated by the previous coaching group while injured in 2011.

But yeah, it must be all McCartney's fault.

[Bulldog Joe]

Cooney is a restricted free agent.

My understanding of that means that he can field offers, but if we match the offer he stays with us. St Kilda let Goddard go because they did not want to match the offer.

Cooney only goes if someone is prepared to pay what our team considers overs. We may actually be well placed if he goes, depending on the compensation pick given.

[chef]

Lake left because he wasn't wanted, the club pushed him out, or I should say the coach. He just said he wanted to play in a grand final to save face.

Really?

Macca was pretty keen on him being our FF wasn't he?

No doubt in my mind that Lake left to chase a flag and I can't blame him for that as he gave us great service.

[comrade]

The only reason he wouldn't want to play for the club is mistreatment.

Just like any employee in any organisation. You look after them, you manage them well, they will be loyal.

That's rubbish. Did Ward and Harbrow leave because they were mistreated?

It's well known that he's a massive fan of the folding stuff and given he's not going to play in a premiership with us, why not go somewhere else that can pay him more and give him a shot at a flag. He's giving us very little on field; sure, point to the 26 touches per game but don't forget to include the missed tackles, non-chases and general ad body language.

But yes, let's go along with the idea that we're treating him like crap by asking him to play across the half back line rather than in the midfield. It's a shame that injuries ruined what should have been a HoF career but I think it's best for both parties if he leaves at the end of the year.

I'm glad we're moving on from being a Club that constantly panders to individuals.

[Bulldog4life]

Lake left because he wasn't wanted, the club pushed him out, or I should say the coach. He just said he wanted to play in a grand final to save face.

You are a wealth of information BAD. Do you know this for a 100% FACT or are you assuming.

[Remi Moses]

If he wants out he wants out.
Why on earth would you overpay someone with a dodgy knee?
Would be complete mismanagement to overpay for Cooney.
These are the times we're in with F/ A some supporters better get used to it.

[Remi Moses]

That's rubbish. Did Ward and Harbrow leave because they were mistreated?

It's well known that he's a massive fan of the folding stuff and given he's not going to play in a premiership with us, why not go somewhere else that can pay him more and give him a shot at a flag. He's giving us very little on field; sure, point to the 26 touches per game but don't forget to include the missed tackles, non-chases and general ad body language.

But yes, let's go along with the idea that we're treating him like crap by asking him to play across the half back line rather than in the midfield. It's a shame that injuries ruined what should have been a HoF career but I think it's best for both parties if he leaves at the end of the year.

I'm glad we're moving on from being a Club that constantly panders to individuals.

Bang on the money.
We've been a club that lauds its players for to long.

[Remi Moses]

Hope we aren't becoming a feeder club.

That's Leeds United chef:p

[Greystache]

I'm glad we're moving on from being a Club that constantly panders to individuals.

So am I, even if it outrages a portion of our supporters who favour individuals over team.

[bornadog]

That's rubbish. Did Ward and Harbrow leave because they were mistreated? .

Ok, sorry wrong word, mismanaged by the list manager - Fantasia.

[wimberga]

As a side note, due to his restricted status, we can match opposition offers and he then has to stay or enter the draft, is that right?

On that point, how would it work if say GWS offered him $400k per season for 2 years flat?

Would we need to offer the same? Or could we do something like $200k base + $10k bonus (or whatever totals maximum $400k) for each game he actually plays over 2 years?

Are these offers considered the same?

[Sedat]

I don't want us to be seen to toss him on the scrapheap but I'm equally not keen to see us offer the farm to keep him. So long as the message is managed carefully and considerately by both parties, if Coons decides that he wants to leave and seek greener pastures I'm fine with it. Unfortunately one of the great AFL careers was shot down in its prime when we were knee-deep in contending mode.

I'd like to think that a 27yo Brownlow medallist, now back to almost full fitness, and one of the highest paid players at our club should command a very high FA compensation pick. We deserve this not in the least because if the poor compensation we received for both Ward and Harbrow relative to their age profile and the band compensation given to others. A first round pick after our current first rounder is absolutely what we should be angling for - St Kilda received the same as compensation for Goddard, who was the same age as Coons is now and isn't a Brownlow Medallist. Other clubs will stink up but who cares.

[Bulldog4life]

I don't want us to be seen to toss him on the scrapheap but I'm equally not keen to see us offer the farm to keep him. So long as the message is managed carefully and considerately by both parties, if Coons decides that he wants to leave and seek greener pastures I'm fine with it. Unfortunately one of the great AFL careers was shot down in its prime due to injury - it won't be the first or last time that happens.

I'd like to think that a 27yo Brownlow medallist, now back to almost full fitness, and one of the highest paid players at our club should command a very high FA compensation pick. We deserve this not in the least because if the poor compensation we received for both Ward and Harbrow relative to their age profile and the band compensation given to others. A first round pick after our current first rounder is absolutely what we should be angling for - St Kilda received the same as compensation for Goddard, who was the same age as Coons is now and isn't a Brownlow Medallist. Other clubs will stink up but who cares.

Agree Sedat. I read earlier that we would get in the 20's and was thinking how in the hell do they get that figure. The team he goes to doesn't have to lose a draft pick so no one should whinge if we were given fair compensation.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't want us to be seen to toss him on the scrapheap but I'm equally not keen to see us offer the farm to keep him. So long as the message is managed carefully and considerately by both parties, if Coons decides that he wants to leave and seek greener pastures I'm fine with it. Unfortunately one of the great AFL careers was shot down in its prime when we were knee-deep in contending mode.

I'd like to think that a 27yo Brownlow medallist, now back to almost full fitness, and one of the highest paid players at our club should command a very high FA compensation pick. We deserve this not in the least because if the poor compensation we received for both Ward and Harbrow relative to their age profile and the band compensation given to others. A first round pick after our current first rounder is absolutely what we should be angling for - St Kilda received the same as compensation for Goddard, who was the same age as Coons is now and isn't a Brownlow Medallist. Other clubs will stink up but who cares.
Pick 4 for Coons???

[bulldogtragic]

Agree Sedat. I read earlier that we would get in the 20's and was thinking how in the hell do they get that figure. The team he goes to doesn't have to lose a draft pick so no one should whinge if we were given fair compensation.
Because the pick would be after our second rounder say pick 22.

If they did for after our first rounder, it would be pick 4.

I'm not sure why the AFL would give us that on their current treatment of us. It would be the just outcome, but look at the MRP. Not much to do with us is just.

[G-Mo77]

I don't want us to be seen to toss him on the scrapheap but I'm equally not keen to see us offer the farm to keep him. So long as the message is managed carefully and considerately by both parties, if Coons decides that he wants to leave and seek greener pastures I'm fine with it. Unfortunately one of the great AFL careers was shot down in its prime when we were knee-deep in contending mode.

I'd like to think that a 27yo Brownlow medallist, now back to almost full fitness, and one of the highest paid players at our club should command a very high FA compensation pick. We deserve this not in the least because if the poor compensation we received for both Ward and Harbrow relative to their age profile and the band compensation given to others. A first round pick after our current first rounder is absolutely what we should be angling for - St Kilda received the same as compensation for Goddard, who was the same age as Coons is now and isn't a Brownlow Medallist. Other clubs will stink up but who cares.

If he wants to go elsewhere I'd like to think we could work out a trade that suits us rather than let the AFL decided on what is fair compensation.

I'm on the same thinking as you. If he's asking for big $ or wanting to go to a contender then if I were in charge I'd say thanks for your services Adam and try and work out something.

[Sedat]

Pick 4 for Coons???
Under exactly the same compensation criteria as Goddard, absolutely. Coons actually has him covered under the AFL's compensation criteria - both were ND pick 1's, both will be 27yo, both are in the top echelon of paid players at their club, with the only difference being Cooney's Brownlow. Our administrators should not just suggest this compensation, but demand it.

[bornadog]

Or he spent 2012 trying to get his market currency up so he could move to a new club on a decent contract in 2013 after the disgraceful way he was treated by the previous coaching group while injured in 2011.

But yeah, it must be all McCartney's fault.

You know bugger all. believe what you will.

If you are happy to lose a brownlow medallist who can help our young team develop, fine that is your choice.

[Bulldog4life]

Because the pick would be after our second rounder say pick 22.

If they did for after our first rounder, it would be pick 4.

I'm not sure why the AFL would give us that on their current treatment of us. It would be the just outcome, but look at the MRP. Not much to do with us is just.

I understand that BT but I can't understand the following "The Bulldogs find themselves in a similar position to that St Kilda faced with one of last year's big-name restricted free agents, Brendon Goddard.

St Kilda was compensated with pick No. 13 in last year's national draft for losing Goddard, a selection it included in its trade for Gold Coast ruckman Tom Hickey.

Like St Kilda, the Bulldogs are in a rebuilding phase and will be mindful that under last year's free agency compensation model they will likely receive a second-round pick should Cooney leave."

What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?

[bulldogtragic]

Under exactly the same compensation criteria as Goddard, absolutely. Coons actually has him covered under the AFL's compensation criteria - both were ND pick 1's, both will be 27yo, both are in the top echelon of paid players at their club, with the only difference being Cooney's Brownlow. Our administrators should not just suggest this compensation, but demand it.
Fair argument. Well reasoned. Just can't see it happening. But yes, Garlick should be going in strong on this argument.

[bornadog]

Fair argument. Well reasoned. Just can't see it happening. But yes, Garlick should be going in strong on this argument.

I believe the rules are laid out, so Garlick can scream all he wants.

[Remi Moses]

I understand that BT but I can't understand the following "The Bulldogs find themselves in a similar position to that St Kilda faced with one of last year's big-name restricted free agents, Brendon Goddard.

St Kilda was compensated with pick No. 13 in last year's national draft for losing Goddard, a selection it included in its trade for Gold Coast ruckman Tom Hickey.

Like St Kilda, the Bulldogs are in a rebuilding phase and will be mindful that under last year's free agency compensation model they will likely receive a second-round pick should Cooney leave."

What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?

It's exactly the same situation as Goddard!
The club should get on the front foot if he leaves and demand the same compo.
Goddard hardly set the world on fire in his last 2 years with the Saints.

[Remi Moses]

I believe the rules are laid out, so Garlick can scream all he wants.

What rules are they?
Goddard number 1 draft pick ( no brownlow)
Cooney number 1 pick and a brownlow.
Is it formulated to salary he'll demand ?

[wimberga]

Thankfully if he does leave, we will still receive a pick:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-01/afl-may-scrap-compensation-picks-evans

And here is the important part from an article stating how it all works last year (article link at bottom)

COMPENSATION

* Clubs can ask for an indication of their draft compensation before they decide to match a rival club’s offer. But the AFL has said clubs will not get a definitive answer on the draft pick they would receive until the offer from a rival club was official.

* The formula for compensation is based on the size and length of the contract and the age of the player. For instance, Brendon Goddard would almost certainly deliver a first-round pick.
However, there are various permutations. Clubs that lose a player to free agency but gain a player could receive less, depending on the value of the player they recruit. For instance, if St Kilda lost Goddard, but gained another player of less quality, the compensation would be based on the difference between the players, meaning the Saints may only receive a third-round pick plus their new player. If the player gained is judged to be at the same level to the one lost, the relevant club would receive nothing.

* The AFL will use five bands of draft selections to determine compensation. These are first round, end of first round, second round, end of second round and third round.

* Unlike expansion laws, clubs cannot ‘‘bank’’ their free-agency compensation picks. This means they will have to used or traded in the same year and cannot be stored and used when a club expects itself to finish lower on the ladder.

* Restricted free agents will fill in a ‘‘form 41’’ detailing a rival club’s official offer in terms of base payments, senior match payments and additional service agreement (ASA) payments. Unrestricted free agents will fill in a ‘‘form 42’’.

* The current player’s club will have three days to match a rival offer.

* Contracts must be lodged within seven days of the club receiving notice from the AFL.

* There will be no compensation for delisted players

CLUBS HAVE BEEN WARNED COMPENSATION IS:

* Not designed to fully compensate a club for the loss of a player

* Designed to reflect the relative values of various players to one another

* Not designed to make concession for the ladder position of a club losing a player, but standardise compensation across five categories of picks.

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-free-agency-how-it-works-20121001-26ue3.htm

[bulldogtragic]

I understand that BT but I can't understand the following "The Bulldogs find themselves in a similar position to that St Kilda faced with one of last year's big-name restricted free agents, Brendon Goddard.

St Kilda was compensated with pick No. 13 in last year's national draft for losing Goddard, a selection it included in its trade for Gold Coast ruckman Tom Hickey.

Like St Kilda, the Bulldogs are in a rebuilding phase and will be mindful that under last year's free agency compensation model they will likely receive a second-round pick should Cooney leave."

What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?
Sure, I'm not a sports lawyer so please hold your fire, but my understanding is a follows:

Primarily, the formula for compensation is based on the size and length of the contract AND the age of the player.

So while Goddard and Cooney are both first round picks and 27yo coming into FA, this indictes that for the same compensation of a first rounder after your selection, Cooney needs to be offered a $3.4 million dollar contract over 4 years. This is like for like.

The assumption of the journo, and I would agree, is that the WBFC will not offer a 4 year deal and will not offer $3.4 million. Yes, this is an assumption... So if this does not happen, say its his current salary over 3 years, that's $1.8 million. Thus, smaller contract in length and value. This drops the compensation value. It is a formula based on objective criteria, it is not a player v player comparison.

So if the compo drops, it could drop to end of round one (pick 20) or after our second (pick 24). Thus Goddard is objectively valued at pick 13 and Cooney 20ish under this set of FA compo criteria.

So to your question: " What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?"

I hope I've articulated my understanding clearly.

[Greystache]

You know bugger all. believe what you will.

If you are happy to lose a brownlow medallist who can help our young team develop, fine that is your choice.

Of course I do and of course you know better. It's gotta be all McCartney's fault... Or Fantasia of course, it just simply couldn't be any other way :rolleyes:

I want a player who wants to play for the club, not on their own terms. If you'd prefer the club to leave it's dignity at the door to placate the individual then that's your choice.

[chef]

Yep, no way we are going to get the same compo as Goddard.

If he is to leave I'd be happy with a early second round pick for him.

[Greystache]

The assumption of the journo, and I would agree, is that the WBFC will not offer a 4 year deal and will not offer $3.4 million. Yes, this is an assumption... So if this does not happen, say its his current salary over 3 years, that's $1.8 million. Thus, smaller contract in length and value. This drops the compensation value. It is a formula based on objective criteria, it is not a player v player comparison..

I'm inclined to agree with this, and even those terms are probably overs based on his last couple of years of output. It's hard to see him commanding more than that given the questions over his fitness.

[Remi Moses]

Yep, no way we are going to get the same compo as Goddard.

If he is to leave I'd be happy with a early second round pick for him.

To be honest he ain't getting a Goddard deal is he?
Reckon he'd get a two year deal from a team in contention and that's it.

[Bulldog4life]

Sure, I'm not a sports lawyer so please hold your fire, but my understanding is a follows:

Primarily, the formula for compensation is based on the size and length of the contract AND the age of the player.

So while Goddard and Cooney are both first round picks and 27yo coming into FA, this indictes that for the same compensation of a first rounder after your selection, Cooney needs to be offered a $3.4 million dollar contract over 4 years. This is like for like.

The assumption of the journo, and I would agree, is that the WBFC will not offer a 4 year deal and will not offer $3.4 million. Yes, this is an assumption... So if this does not happen, say its his current salary over 3 years, that's $1.8 million. Thus, smaller contract in length and value. This drops the compensation value. It is a formula based on objective criteria, it is not a player v player comparison.

So if the compo drops, it could drop to end of round one (pick 20) or after our second (pick 24). Thus Goddard is objectively valued at pick 13 and Cooney 20ish under this set of FA compo criteria.

So to your question: " What specific part of last year's compensation model states that Goddard is worth a first round pick while Cooney is worth a second round pick? What is the citeria? Do you know?"

I hope I've articulated my understanding clearly.

Thanks BT you have. Basically it all depends on the next contract Coons accepts compared to what Goddard accepted.

[bornadog]

If you'd prefer the club to leave it's dignity at the door to placate the individual then that's your choice.

Never said that at all, I just don't like losing good players when we don't have many at the club.

[Greystache]

Never said that at all, I just don't like losing good players when we don't have many at the club.

Every player reaches a point in their career where they have to put their personal wants aside for the long term benefit of the club, Adam's time has come sooner than many others but that's life. Players like West had to make sacrifices to assist Cooney's development and now it's his turn. If he wants to sulk through the year and then go chasing big bucks at a contender elsewhere rather than paying back then that says a lot about him as a person. Lake too for that matter.

The fact that we aren't just going to cop that tells me we're finally starting to develop a bit of character.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks BT you have. Basically it all depends on the next contract Coons accepts compared to what Goddard accepted.
Spot on. If Coons walks for his current market value, we would have to ready ourselves for pick 24. Garlick should scream blue murder and hope the AFL adjudicate that the Goddard compo was way above the threshold and that the contract should be considered second to age, profile etc. But really, expecting anything above pick 24 would be creating false expectations.

What's worse is the compo weights FA's in and FA's out. So if Cooney goes and we get pick 24, but if we get a big name like Gordo has committed us to, for argument sake say Daisy Thomas, the AFL would dictate that we have a massive talent coming in and reduce the Cooney compo. Realistically, if this happened we could end up with pick 42 or 60 for Cooney! Or if it was a Daisy type gun, we could get nothing!!

Why is it that when we commit to landing a big name FA, we may lose on the roundabout by losing a big name FA for next to nothing. This scenario needs further consideration IMO.

[bornadog]

If Cooney leaves it will be total mismanagement by the club. We have very few players in the 24 to 28 year bracket, we can ill afford to lose another

We will see how this pans out.

[comrade]

If Cooney leaves it will be total mismanagement by the club. We have very few players in the 24 to 28 year bracket, we can ill afford to lose another

We will see how this pans out.

By mismanagement, do you mean to to say we should pay overs to keep him so he can coast through another year on big bucks, purely to have a tick in the 24-28 bracket?

Or are you referring to the fact that if we lose him it's because we didn't treat such a champion with the respect he deserved, playing him in the back line and all?

Just because we're not going to kiss him on the knob doesn't mean its mismanagement. Maybe Adam is loyal to the folding stuff and nothing else?

[Bulldog4life]

In my opinion the Club should offer Coons an amount that they think he is worth on a two year contract max. If another Club offers more well so be it. Not worth paying way overs especially with a player with chronic knee problems.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

If Cooney leaves it will be total mismanagement by the club. We have very few players in the 24 to 28 year bracket, we can ill afford to lose another

We will see how this pans out.

We are talking about someone who is way past his best. Unfortunately injuries have caught up with Adam who is only a shadow of his Brownlow best. Compare the difference in output now between Griffen and Cooney who are now poles apart in ability at this stage of their careers.
Cooney's best value to the club was his speed to break from the midfield but this rarely occurs now.

[Remi Moses]

If Cooney leaves it will be total mismanagement by the club. We have very few players in the 24 to 28 year bracket, we can ill afford to lose another

We will see how this pans out.

Yes we should pay Adam 600 large and pray the knee comes good .
Honestly mate

[Go_Dogs]

If Cooney leaves it will be total mismanagement by the club. We have very few players in the 24 to 28 year bracket, we can ill afford to lose another

We will see how this pans out.

Sorry, but I just can't agree with that.

I'm sure the club will offer Cooney what it believes is a fair sum of money and fair contract terms. It is prudent from a list management perspective to offer him a reduced salary package - his form is not what it was, he has issues staying on the park and these issues are only likely to increase the older he gets, and more degenerative his knee becomes. Those are the facts.

I'd happily offer Cooney a fair contract in financial terms, one which includes incentives for his performance and ability to stay on the park. Perhaps it could be structured that he gets increases in dollars at certain intervals (play 15 games, get a %increase in salary, play 20 and get a bigger %increase). It could also be structured to reward him if he finishes highly in the B&F. There could also be a clause that if he reaches certain performance metrics he gets another contract presented to him and can extend his term by another year.

Adam has been a great player for the club and should be treated with respect, but there has to be good faith shown by both parties. Adam has performed well below what we would have liked for a few years, but has been taking home probably more money than anyone else. I'd hate to be in a work environment where I was significantly outperforming someone else but knew they were getting significantly more money than I was.

Depending on how active we are in the FA player market, it's likely we'll still be able to offer him a pretty damn good deal - but he and his management need to have the reality buttons pushed because if they're hoping for a long term, big dollar contract, I just can't see it happening. If it does, then that would be serious mismanagement by the club.

We also can't expect every player to be like Griff and play for less money than perhaps they'd get elsewhere, because at the end of the day, this is Adam's profession, he has a very short shelf life left in the game and he needs to maximise his earning potential. If he can get a longer term offer for a greater amount elsewhere, it makes commercial sense for him to leave. The game has already well and truly moved that way and there isn't much we can do as a club other than put our best offer forward and leave it to the player and manager to decide if they are agreeable to those terms, or if they believe his best opportunities lie elsewhere.

[LostDoggy]

You know bugger all. believe what you will.

If you are happy to lose a brownlow medallist who can help our young team develop, fine that is your choice.
You know nothing, Jon Snow?

Every player reaches a point in their career where they have to put their personal wants aside for the long term benefit of the club, Adam's time has come sooner than many others but that's life. Players like West had to make sacrifices to assist Cooney's development and now it's his turn. If he wants to sulk through the year and then go chasing big bucks at a contender elsewhere rather than paying back then that says a lot about him as a person. Lake too for that matter.

The fact that we aren't just going to cop that tells me we're finally starting to develop a bit of character.
Amen brother.

By mismanagement, do you mean to to say we should pay overs to keep him so he can coast through another year on big bucks, purely to have a tick in the 24-28 bracket?

Or are you referring to the fact that if we lose him it's because we didn't treat such a champion with the respect he deserved, playing him in the back line and all?

Just because we're not going to kiss him on the knob doesn't mean its mismanagement. Maybe Adam is loyal to the folding stuff and nothing else?

These are all rational, reasonable and intelligent responses to what is basically an emotional argument. He is certainly playing like the dotted line has a scribble over it. He may have a Brownlow, but he'll never come close to another.

If he wants to go, we need to support him. Show players we'll back them and help them but won't put an individual over the team.

Think of it this way: if we pay him overs just to keep him, what do we do in a few years' time when we have our young guns flying, and attracting offers, but we don't have the cap space to keep them because we forked out for what was basically a face-saving, emotional decision?

[westdog54]

You know bugger all. believe what you will.

If you are happy to lose a brownlow medallist who can help our young team develop, fine that is your choice.

TBH I don't think that is the case at all. Cooney has never struck me as anything even close to being a leader. I don't think he's professional or a good example to the young players at the club.

He is playing like a man totally disinterested at the moment, and is a shadow of his former self. I'm not sure that we should expend too much energy, or salary cap space, more importantly, on a bloke that doesn't want to be here.

[FrediKanoute]

Sorry, but I just can't agree with that.

I'm sure the club will offer Cooney what it believes is a fair sum of money and fair contract terms. It is prudent from a list management perspective to offer him a reduced salary package - his form is not what it was, he has issues staying on the park and these issues are only likely to increase the older he gets, and more degenerative his knee becomes. Those are the facts.

I'd happily offer Cooney a fair contract in financial terms, one which includes incentives for his performance and ability to stay on the park. Perhaps it could be structured that he gets increases in dollars at certain intervals (play 15 games, get a %increase in salary, play 20 and get a bigger %increase). It could also be structured to reward him if he finishes highly in the B&F. There could also be a clause that if he reaches certain performance metrics he gets another contract presented to him and can extend his term by another year.

Adam has been a great player for the club and should be treated with respect, but there has to be good faith shown by both parties. Adam has performed well below what we would have liked for a few years, but has been taking home probably more money than anyone else. I'd hate to be in a work environment where I was significantly outperforming someone else but knew they were getting significantly more money than I was.

Depending on how active we are in the FA player market, it's likely we'll still be able to offer him a pretty damn good deal - but he and his management need to have the reality buttons pushed because if they're hoping for a long term, big dollar contract, I just can't see it happening. If it does, then that would be serious mismanagement by the club.

We also can't expect every player to be like Griff and play for less money than perhaps they'd get elsewhere, because at the end of the day, this is Adam's profession, he has a very short shelf life left in the game and he needs to maximise his earning potential. If he can get a longer term offer for a greater amount elsewhere, it makes commercial sense for him to leave. The game has already well and truly moved that way and there isn't much we can do as a club other than put our best offer forward and leave it to the player and manager to decide if they are agreeable to those terms, or if they believe his best opportunities lie elsewhere.

Well said and I agree completely. I would love Coon's to be a 1 club player, but at the end of the day it has to be win win for both parties. Its not about loyalty, but a question of give and take.

[bornadog]

By mismanagement, do you mean to to say we should pay overs to keep him so he can coast through another year on big bucks, purely to have a tick in the 24-28 bracket?

Or are you referring to the fact that if we lose him it's because we didn't treat such a champion with the respect he deserved, playing him in the back line and all?

Just because we're not going to kiss him on the knob doesn't mean its mismanagement. Maybe Adam is loyal to the folding stuff and nothing else?


Yes we should pay Adam 600 large and pray the knee comes good .
Honestly mate

Where the *!*!*!*! did I say we pay him overs.

[bornadog]

He is playing like a man totally disinterested at the moment, and is a shadow of his former self. I'm not sure that we should expend too much energy, or salary cap space, more importantly, on a bloke that doesn't want to be here.

How do we know this?

[jeemak]

Sorry, but I just can't agree with that.

I'm sure the club will offer Cooney what it believes is a fair sum of money and fair contract terms. It is prudent from a list management perspective to offer him a reduced salary package - his form is not what it was, he has issues staying on the park and these issues are only likely to increase the older he gets, and more degenerative his knee becomes. Those are the facts.

I'd happily offer Cooney a fair contract in financial terms, one which includes incentives for his performance and ability to stay on the park. Perhaps it could be structured that he gets increases in dollars at certain intervals (play 15 games, get a %increase in salary, play 20 and get a bigger %increase). It could also be structured to reward him if he finishes highly in the B&F. There could also be a clause that if he reaches certain performance metrics he gets another contract presented to him and can extend his term by another year.

Adam has been a great player for the club and should be treated with respect, but there has to be good faith shown by both parties. Adam has performed well below what we would have liked for a few years, but has been taking home probably more money than anyone else. I'd hate to be in a work environment where I was significantly outperforming someone else but knew they were getting significantly more money than I was.

Depending on how active we are in the FA player market, it's likely we'll still be able to offer him a pretty damn good deal - but he and his management need to have the reality buttons pushed because if they're hoping for a long term, big dollar contract, I just can't see it happening. If it does, then that would be serious mismanagement by the club.

We also can't expect every player to be like Griff and play for less money than perhaps they'd get elsewhere, because at the end of the day, this is Adam's profession, he has a very short shelf life left in the game and he needs to maximise his earning potential. If he can get a longer term offer for a greater amount elsewhere, it makes commercial sense for him to leave. The game has already well and truly moved that way and there isn't much we can do as a club other than put our best offer forward and leave it to the player and manager to decide if they are agreeable to those terms, or if they believe his best opportunities lie elsewhere.

Excellent post.

[comrade]

Where the *!*!*!*! did I say we pay him overs.

So, let's say we offer him $350K and a 1 year deal, given his injury history. Another club offers him $450K. He comes back to us and says match it or I walk.

Do you think he's worth whatever it takes to keep him at the Bulldogs? In the above scenario, anything other than us offering $100K more than we really want to is an example of mismanagement according to you.


If Cooney leaves it will be total mismanagement by the club.

[bornadog]

So, let's say we offer him $350K and a 1 year deal, given his injury history. Another club offers him $450K. He comes back to us and says match it or I walk.

Do you think he's worth whatever it takes to keep him at the Bulldogs? In the above scenario, anything other than us offering $100K more than we really want to is an example of mismanagement according to you.

Comrade there truly is more to life than just money. List management at any club is vital and doesn't always involve mega bucks. The good clubs keep their good players by looking after their players. example, we could have kept Harbrow and Ward if we had of managed the situation better.

Maybe Cooney is different due to his injury, we wanted to see how he goes and we let his contract reach this stage.

You not what I think? There is something going on at the club, and Cooney looks dejected over the past few weeks. According to another thread, he looked down today at the Skins Day. Something is wrong here, gut feel is he has been told he won't be at the club next year - and that is gut feel only.

Over the season, yes he is not playing Brownlow footy, but he is showing glimpse of his old self, and averaging over 20 disposals a game and kicking a few goals (when he gets a chance). We don't have many players at his development level. If he can play like this for two more years, then the likes of Macrae/Hrovat will take over, but in the meantime we need him (and not in the backline).

I don't buy the money thing - but when it comes down to it and the club is showing no interest in him and another offer comes, then he will take.

[westdog54]

How do we know this?

We don't, but the warning signs are there, and it seems they were on show at the kids clinic today.

[comrade]

Comrade there truly is more to life than just money.

From what I have heard about Cooney, money is a big priority.



If he can play like this for two more years, then the likes of Macrae/Hrovat will take over, but in the meantime we need him (and not in the backline).

I agree that he has definite worth for development purposes though let's be honest, he has never shown much in the way of leadership (on field and on track).



I don't buy the money thing - but when it comes down to it and the club is showing no interest in him and another offer comes, then he will take.

No doubt we are showing interest and would prefer to reach terms and keep him at the Club - but it must be on our terms, not Cooney's. If he's cracked the sads over it and wants to go, fair enough. Let's draft a good young kid with the compo pick who will be around when (if) we make our way back up the ladder.

[GVGjr]

The only reason he wouldn't want to play for the club is mistreatment.

Just like any employee in any organisation. You look after them, you manage them well, they will be loyal.

Players are a bit stronger than you give them credit for. Lakes character in public got questioned by all the coaches a few years back and if there was ever a case of mistreatment that was it.

[AndrewP6]

TBH I don't think that is the case at all. Cooney has never struck me as anything even close to being a leader. I don't think he's professional or a good example to the young players at the club.

He is playing like a man totally disinterested at the moment, and is a shadow of his former self. I'm not sure that we should expend too much energy, or salary cap space, more importantly, on a bloke that doesn't want to be here.

The first point I have read a number of times here, but to be honest I just don't see it. He's getting good numbers, even if from accounts he didn't play well on the weekend he sure wasn't alone.

The second point I'm interested to know how you know this.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Offer him what we are prepared to offer him, and no more. If he wants a premiership or bigger bucks, let's not stand in the way. He was a great player, but he isn't anymore. How long will he have left in the game? It's the unknown, but it's likely 2-3 years max.

He'd be a smart pick up from a club in contention, but that doesn't mean it'd be a bad loss for us either given the circumstances. It looks/reads worse than it actually is.

How deep is this upcoming draft? If we picked up a player similar to Hrovat's ability, we'd have to be happy.

[westdog54]

The first point I have read a number of times here, but to be honest I just don't see it. He's getting good numbers, even if from accounts he didn't play well on the weekend he sure wasn't alone.

The second point I'm interested to know how you know this.

Never said I knew, said we shouldn't make too much effort if he doesn't.

[ReLoad]

Ill take a 2nd rounder, given where we will get our picks and also no Adelaide in the draft its equal to a high 1st rounder.

It pretty much all comes down to how much money he wants 9Which also impacts what we get draft pick wise) NO AFL club will offer him more than a 2 year deal, if they do they are mental.

[MrMahatma]

Just play him in the midfield. Had a good last qtr against Melb.

Getting rid of him, and playing him out of position is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Of all the crap this club has done in the past decades, this sticks in my craw more than anything. He's a gun, and can still deliver. We'll have 2 decent players on our list next year at this rate.

What a joke.

[Hot_Doggies]

First Lake, now Cooney. Our version of the 'no dickhead' policy?

Take a 2nd round pick and run.....

[Mantis]

Take the money and run Adam.. Why would you want to stay?

[Ghost Dog]

What sort of a club are we?

Come off it. We've moved heaven and earth to get Cooney right. Do you not think he's seemed a bit disinterested at times this season?

[bulldogtragic]

From memory we have about $700,000 left in the cap. If Coonet goes, that increases to about $1,300,000.

If we have the trade bait, we could just about buy any player(s) in the AFL.

[Ghost Dog]

That's rubbish. Did Ward and Harbrow leave because they were mistreated?

It's well known that he's a massive fan of the folding stuff and given he's not going to play in a premiership with us, why not go somewhere else that can pay him more and give him a shot at a flag. He's giving us very little on field; sure, point to the 26 touches per game but don't forget to include the missed tackles, non-chases and general ad body language.

But yes, let's go along with the idea that we're treating him like crap by asking him to play across the half back line rather than in the midfield. It's a shame that injuries ruined what should have been a HoF career but I think it's best for both parties if he leaves at the end of the year.

I'm glad we're moving on from being a Club that constantly panders to individuals.

Post of the day. Even in some cursory things like cub media interviews, one senses he's not that interested in hanging about. If he's happier elsewhere, hope he goes.
It's sad to lose a player, but one door closes, another opens.

[always right]

The first point I have read a number of times here, but to be honest I just don't see it. He's getting good numbers, even if from accounts he didn't play well on the weekend he sure wasn't alone.

The second point I'm interested to know how you know this.

The captain also gets good numbers. It's kinda meaningless isn't it? Cooney's impact on games is becoming less and less. It's sad.

[bornadog]

Do you not think he's seemed a bit disinterested at times this season?


one senses he's not that interested in hanging about. If he's happier elsewhere, hope he goes.
It's sad to lose a player, but one door closes, another opens.

Why do you think he is disinterested? What is going on at the club?

[always right]

Never said that at all, I just don't like losing good players when we don't have many at the club.

It's about timing isn't it? With several of our older players departing in the next year or so, we are not going to get better in a hurry. You could argue that this is a reason to hang onto Cooney but you could also argue that we need to load up on as many high end draft picks as possible during this period so they all come through together.

Personally I'll be sad to see Cooney depart if that's the outcome, however there is no way we should be paying him anymore than he is worth...and that may simply not be enough to keep him. It's not about "mistreating" anyone.....it's about being pragmatic. An early second round swap sounds good to me...the reality being he's current performance level probably justifies a third rounder.

[SlimPickens]

Why do you think he is disinterested? What is going on at the club?

Why does something have to be "going on at the club"? Why can't it be what's going on with Adam?

He is paid to be a professional, not cracking the sads if he isn't playing in his favourite position.

It was great to see Adam get fired up when he got belted on the weekend. First time he has showed he cares in a long time.

[bornadog]

Why does something have to be "going on at the club"? Why can't it be what's going on with Adam?

He is paid to be a professional, not cracking the sads if he isn't playing in his favourite position.

It was great to see Adam get fired up when he got belted on the weekend. First time he has showed he cares in a long time.

Something is not right, that is all I am saying.

[bulldogtragic]

Why does something have to be "going on at the club"? Why can't it be what's going on with Adam?

He is paid to be a professional, not cracking the sads if he isn't playing in his favourite position.

It was great to see Adam get fired up when he got belted on the weekend. First time he has showed he cares in a long time.
Cost him $900 though :(

[SlimPickens]

Cost him $900 though :(

He has plenty.

[Ghost Dog]

Why do you think he is disinterested? What is going on at the club?

Reports from the Skins train with the players sessions. His recent videos on Bulldogs TV. Body language on game day. Needing to be belted over the ear to actually fire up.

I really admire your fierce loyalty to the club and the players. I'm not sure it's returned to you by certain players, who really see it more as a career and business. And that's fine, there are different levels of involvement.
Without fans like you BAD, the club does not exist, especially a small club like ours.

[Hot_Doggies]

Something is not right, that is all I am saying.

You better let Ryan Griffen know.

[bornadog]

Reports from the Skins train with the players sessions. His recent videos on Bulldogs TV. Body language on game day. Needing to be belted over the ear to actually fire up.

I really admire your fierce loyalty to the club and the players. I'm not sure it's returned to you by certain players, who really see it more as a career and business. And that's fine, there are different levels of involvement.
Without fans like you BAD, the club does not exist, especially a small club like ours.

There are two sides to every story.

If it was up to many fans we would get rid of every player over 22 years old.:D

[bornadog]

You better let Ryan Griffen know.

Please elaborate

[Ghost Dog]

There are two sides to every story.

If it was up to many fans we would get rid of every player over 22 years old.:D

I know what you mean! It's not a playstation game. You can't switch players at the drop of a hat. Takes about four years Griff reckons.
And I think Hot_Doggie means, Griff is firing on all pistons - no problem at the club for him. Or Will Minson for that matter.

[Hot_Doggies]

Please elaborate

Something isn't right at the club?

Griffen seems to be going ok. New coach wants players to work both ways and Cooney seems disinterested, stop the presses!

[SlimPickens]

There are two sides to every story.

If it was up to many fans we would get rid of every player over 22 years old.:D

Don't think that's a fair reflection. Supporters have the right to question a players output, much like we have the right to question a coach or administration.

You're using Adam as an example of what is wrong with the club. It could be argued that Adams attitude is what the problem is. Look at other senior players Griff, Minson, Gia, Morris and Murph have all been fantastic this year at guiding and aiding a young football team.

I think the club has stood by Adam for a number of years and due to poor management of an injury we have been robbed of his best football. If we don't do our due diligence on every player on the list including not offering Adam "overs" for the player he is now then the club is clearly negligent in their duties. If Adam wants to chase a flag or more coin so be it, I won't be blaming the club for holding its ground.

[LostDoggy]

we could have kept Harbrow and Ward if we had of managed the situation better.

What do you believe we could have done to keep these two BAD?

[bulldogtragic]

I think we need to make the distinction.

The club is not sacking Adam. It is not trading Adam. On the contrary it will make Adam a fair offer to stay a bulldog for life. I'm not sure how this is ill treatment or mismanagement.

It is up to Adam to accept the offer or leave for perceived greener pastures. If he voluntarily leaves, I don't think the club can be castigated.

We have been good to Adam and he has been good to the club. This is just the business side of AFL kicking in.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

If Cooney leaves it will be total mismanagement by the club. We have very few players in the 24 to 28 year bracket, we can ill afford to lose another

We will see how this pans out.

The point you make regarding having sufficient players in the 24-28 age bracket is a valid one. Cooney's value has now lessened considerably because of his inability to dominate in the midfield. I would think that our greatest need at the moment is a quality key forward and if that can be arranged then I would think that given Adam's large contract that was negotiated in better times for him personally, that he now becomes dispensable.

[bornadog]

Don't think that's a fair reflection. Supporters have the right to question a players output, much like we have the right to question a coach or administration.

You're using Adam as an example of what is wrong with the club. It could be argued that Adams attitude is what the problem is. Look at other senior players Griff, Minson, Gia, Morris and Murph have all been fantastic this year at guiding and adding a young football team.

I think the club has stood by Adam for a number of years and due to poor management of an injury we have been robbed of his best football. If we don't do our due diligence on every player on the list including not offering Adam "overs" for the player he is now then the club is clearly negligent in their duties. If Adam wants to chase a flag or more coin so be it, I won't be blaming the club for holding its ground.

All good points, but you are not getting mine.

All I am saying is if Cooney looks disinterested, then there is a reason, and it may not be just him.

Anyway, all moot points, we are all guessing. It just pisses me off when people have a go at a player and they don't know the full story. I like to keep an open mind.

[SlimPickens]

Anyway, all moot points, we are all guessing. It just pisses me off when people have a go at a player and they don't know the full story. I like to keep an open mind.

Same could probably be said about people having a go at the footy club;)

[bornadog]

Same could probably be said about people having a go at the footy club;)

Yep unless you have inside information.

[always right]

Same could probably be said about people having a go at the footy club;)

...or the coach against GWS....eh BAD? :)

[bornadog]

...or the coach against GWS....eh BAD? :)


Unlike you I am not happy the way the team is performing.:D

[Ozza]

At the start of the year, Cooney was playing well and the move to half back (mixed in with some midfield time) was being lauded, as was Cooney for returning to some good form.

He got a hamstring injury - came back and hasn't been in great form, with turnovers being his main issue - now the suggestion is that he is either disinterested, or being mistreated at the club.

Is it at all possible that he is just not playing that great, and his new contract hasn't been settled because these things take time?

[always right]

Unlike you I am not happy the way the team is performing.:D

Who could be?

[chef]

Yep unless you have inside information.

Whats your info?

[w3design]

Do any posters on here have any inside information re Adam's attitude? Is there any info out there in media land that I have missed where Coons or his manager have said he is unhappy or wants to move on?
Or is all this speculation based on his perceived body language.

I for one do not recall even in his Brownlow year Coons ever seeming to be other than a completely laid back type, who never seemed to dance up and down about much unless someone pressed his cranky button.

I am quite confident the club will offer Adam a contract commensurate with his current market value. If they did not I would be most disappointed in our admin.

If we don't see that he is worth more than that, just which contender will see him offering them enough to offer significant overs. This particularly given contenders are usually at or close to their salary cap limits anyway.
I would have though that pretty much the only club with excessive salary cap space, plus a need for a Coon Dog as an attention grabber in their market development phase might be GWS. Marketing aside though, I am not that sure what he offers them either.
Essendon has been suggested as a possible suitor for AC, but given the dramas they are tangled in, they may not be a significant presence next year anyway, if they are appropriately dealt with if half the stuff in the press turns out to be true.

So unless Adam is unhappy at the Dogs, or a serious contender desperately wants him, or some idiots pay way over his true market value, I doubt he will be going anywhere.

[F'scary]

Thanks for the memories, Adam.

We should grab pick 20 or 24, whatever it is if it is around that mark.

[AndrewP6]

The captain also gets good numbers. It's kinda meaningless isn't it? Cooney's impact on games is becoming less and less. It's sad.

Before doing his hammy he was in good form I thought.

[bornadog]

Whats your info?

Zero on this one.

[AndrewP6]

Come off it. We've moved heaven and earth to get Cooney right. Do you not think he's seemed a bit disinterested at times this season?

Not my question I know. ... But I really haven't seen that across the season. At times Yes, but the more likely explanation to me is that he's not physically right. I don't get the disinterested thing at all.

[bulldogtragic]

Before doing his hammy he was in good form I thought.
According to WOOF Marmo voters, Cooney was our second best player jut behind Griff as of Round 9...

[Hotdog60]

Isn't all media speculation, Adam has said in the past he want's to be a one club player and he may well be realistic about were his body is at and what his worth is to a football club. So he may well be happy with our offer and signs on the line.

People getting their tails up without any hard facts which are held behind closed doors.

FA and the Ward, Harbrow deals has dulled my thoughts on players, they will do what they want to do and nobody has control over that.

[LostDoggy]

The first point I have read a number of times here, but to be honest I just don't see it. He's getting good numbers, even if from accounts he didn't play well on the weekend he sure wasn't alone.

The second point I'm interested to know how you know this.

Come off it guys. I'm getting kinda sick of the “How do you know that?” response. It's disrespectful to the poster you're seemingly bashing over the head for not being the head coach. None of us can expect to know all the inner workings of our footy club and if we did, we wouldn't post it on a football forum anyway.

So come up with something better, for all our sake.


Isn't all media speculation, Adam has said in the past he want's to be a one club player and he may well be realistic about were his body is at and what his worth is to a football club. So he may well be happy with our offer and signs on the line.

People getting their tails up without any hard facts which are held behind closed doors.

FA and the Ward, Harbrow deals has dulled my thoughts on players, they will do what they want to do and nobody has control over that.

Agree.

I think like other recent similar stories — Cloke, Ablett, Buddy, Lake, Goddard — they will go either way, and we won't know until it happens. When or if it happens, we can do nothing about it, and in many cases, neither can the footy club.

[AndrewP6]

Come off it guys. I'm getting kinda sick of the “How do you know that?” response. It's disrespectful to the poster you're seemingly bashing over the head for not being the head coach. None of us can expect to know all the inner workings of our footy club and if we did, we wouldn't post it on a football forum anyway.

So come up with something better, for all our sake.
.

I'm not sure where you get the 'bashing over the head' from...that isn't the point of the question in the slightest. I agree we can't be expected to know the club's inner workings, which is precisely why I asked how the information is known! When someone comes out and says something that hints at a players' personal thoughts, I'd like to know whether that's just an observation based on watching him play, or there's more to it.

[FrediKanoute]

All good points, but you are not getting mine.

All I am saying is if Cooney looks disinterested, then there is a reason, and it may not be just him.

Anyway, all moot points, we are all guessing. It just pisses me off when people have a go at a player and they don't know the full story. I like to keep an open mind.

I'll bite here. If I had to guess why he's looking disinterested its because he is probably questioning where this is all going. I don't know Adam personally, so this is all supposition (no worse supposition though than perceived body language reading). What I mean by this is that contrary to what the media tend to portray most sports people don't play for the money. Sure guys edging towards the end of their career tend to want to make sure their last contract is a good oen, but most would give all of that away for tasting the ultimate success in their sport, be it a winning Premiership, Winning Wimbledon, Winning at Augusta, an Olympic Gold Medal, it doesn't matter that is what really makes them play through pain, stretch that little bit harder etc.

The big concern I have at moment is that for guys like Cooney, 27 YO, body failing, the reality is the big prize is out of reach. In fact playing finals football again is not likely. So in his shoes you have to ask yourself where does the motivation come from? For guys like Gia (who is a little older and facing retirement) its from seeing the younger guys come through and playing the mentoring role. Coon's has never been this sort of player, not as a junior and not as a professional.

I suspect he wont be at the Bulldogs next year, but will take a lesser contract to chase a flag. No inside info (hard to have this when I sit half a world away), just a hunch.

[chef]

Zero on this one.

Cool, thanks mate.

[Ghost Dog]

thoughts, I'd like to know whether that's just an observation based on watching him play, or there's more to it.

Part on and off field observation. No inside connection to the club. Perceptions.

FWIW, There have been threads that go back from 2008 that debate his laziness, or attitude.


i am not a big fan of cooney and think he is overrated. for me, its not that he is lazy, but that he is most interested in "sheepdogging", scrapping around at the back of the pack just in case he can get the glory of snapping a quick goal but never going for the hard ball.



This is one area of his game where he's really improved I think since those days - much better value inside game. He's been inconsistent through injury for some time. How has this affected his game mentally?

Some of the reports of him at the Skins train with the players and videos like this (http://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Will%2BMinson%2B%2B%2B%2Byoutube&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQtwIwBA&url=%68%74%74%70%3a%2f%2f%77%77%77%2e%79%6f%75%74%75%62%65%2 e%63%6f%6d%2f%77%61%74%63%68%3f%76%3d%6d%46%74%4e%66%2d%77%7 1%4c%73%34&ei=poncUcWEBMeOlQXJ9oCACw&usg=AFQjCNFHIQ45ciQi3ruT0GzmXEGt46BaRg&bvm=bv.48705608,d.dGI) don't really give the perception he's 100% representing the club off field. Has it always been this way? Or is this a recent indication of his mood? Watching him at games, he's a burst runner, not a running machine, so he often pulls up short in the chase. I think this is style of play, but could be read as effort as well.

Tackle count is the big indicator of wanting to be there. Not necessarily ultimate worth, but it's hard to argue someone doesn't if their tackle count is high. His tackle average sits at 2.1 at the moment. I'm not a coach, but I believe this is a bit low considering where he plays on the field. That's 80th in the league.

[The Underdog]

Before doing his hammy he was in good form I thought.

Agree, he'd looked good at times. Maybe he's unhappy that his body keeps letting him down. It might be less that he's unwilling to do what is asked of him than his body leaves him unable. That would be another explanation for his body language, particularly in a contract year. Anyway that's my attempt at reading too much into the situation without any actual knowledge. Hope we hold onto him on a fair contract for both sides.

[Doc26]

I do wonder how much Lake's current situation, post his free agency experience, who is looking settled, valued and with a fair chance of playing off in a GF this season, is playing on Adam's thinking.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I do wonder how much Lake's current situation, post his free agency experience, who is looking settled, valued and with a fair chance of playing off in a GF this season, is playing on Adam's thinking.

Hawthorn were keen to get Lake two years prior to it occurring simply because they desperately needed another key defender. I wouldn't think that Cooney as a FA has any where near the same currency, in particular for a top 8 club.

[The Underdog]

Hawthorn were keen to get Lake two years prior to it occurring simply because they desperately needed another key defender. I wouldn't think that Cooney as a FA has any where near the same currency, in particular for a top 8 club.

I'd be surprised if he got a deal we couldn't match unless GWS are going to give him 3 or 4 years and pay overs in year one.

[neddie]

Zero on this one.

Could it be,Cooney would like to return home to Adelaide ??Crows have deep pockets after the departure of Tippet last year.:mad:

[bornadog]

Could it be,Cooney would like to return home to Adelaide ??Crows have deep pockets after the departure of Tippet last year.:mad:

Swap for D Talia:D

[azabob]

I do wonder how much Lake's current situation, post his free agency experience, who is looking settled, valued and with a fair chance of playing off in a GF this season, is playing on Adam's thinking.

They are great mates and I imagine they still see quite a bit of each other.

Perhaps Cooney could somehow end up a hawk?

[Go_Dogs]

They are great mates and I imagine they still see quite a bit of each other.

Perhaps Cooney could somehow end up a hawk?

I was speaking with a Hawks mate yesterday and my view is they may see him as a replacement for Burgoyne. Adam could walk into their side but not need to be a standout performer, more a bit player. Playing him off half back may indeed be something that helps see such a move over the line as I could very much see the Hawks wanting him to fill a role that involves him playing all across the park but perhaps like Burgoyne, being mainly used behind the ball.

I guess it's very much a wait and see prospect, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave. The Burgoyne example is also a good one in that Shaun had considerable knee issues prior to leaving Port (and had a significantly reduced output because of that) but Hawks were still very keen to deal for him (paid big). I know we will lose him to FA so the situation has its differences, but still - he could definitely be someone they are very interested in. The Lake connection makes it all the more likely for mine.