Stick with code, says WADA

[bornadog]

Link (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/stick-with-code-says-wada-20130719-2qa08.html)


World Anti-Doping Agency president John Fahey has underlined that the global code is the ''only document that matters'' in doping cases.
Fahey resisted interpreting events in which the Australian Anti-Doping Authority provided the Australian Crime Commission with incomplete advice on AOD-9604, but his message was clear: the substance is prohibited and an athlete found to have used it should face the consequences.

''I don't know what the chain of information was to be able to conclusively explain anything. And I'm certainly not going to guess,'' Fahey said of the communication that led the ACC to publish information about AOD-9604 in its report on crime, corruption and drugs in Australian sport that was incomplete, though not incorrect.

While ASADA advised the ACC, correctly, that AOD-9604 did not fall into the S2 category of WADA's prohibited list, it has acknowledged it did not reference the substance's categorisation in the S-O ''non-approved substances''. ASADA would not acknowledge that as an error this week but, crucially, it has stated previously that it has ''not advised any party that AOD-9604 is permitted in sport''.

AFL boss Andrew Demetriou last week referred to a ''classification issue'' around AOD-9604, but Fahey said on Friday: ''I know what is clear, and I'll say it again, the substance known as AOD-9604 has never been approved, to my knowledge, by any health or regulatory authority anywhere in the world for human consumption, and therefore it is prohibited under the S-O provision … All that matters for an anti-doping violation, an ADV, is the WADA code. The simple facts here are there's a code, the athlete is bound by that code, the athlete is liable if there's a breach of that code or a violation under that code. Full stop.''

This doesn't look good for Essendon.

[G-Mo77]

We need a like button.

Essendon supporters at work have been smiling all week. I'd love to see that smile turned upside down.

[LostDoggy]

Fahey seems to believe pretty strongly that Essendon should be punished, not sure if his bite will be as strong as his bark though.

[boydogs]

Fahey seems to believe pretty strongly that Essendon should be punished, not sure if his bite will be as strong as his bark though.

He's been pretty consistent, but does he have the final say?

[Topdog]

yes WADA can appeal any ASADA decision.

[Hotdog60]

Maybe a dumb question but is there a declaration that all sports codes sign under a world governing body.
I guess why I'm asking is because the AFL is a domestic sport can the AFL water down any punishment handed out by the WADA. Because we don't have a international completion like soccer, union or league.
I can see the AFL saying thanks for your recommendation but we will do this instead.

[soupman]

Maybe a dumb question but is there a declaration that all sports codes sign under a world governing body.
I guess why I'm asking is because the AFL is a domestic sport can the AFL water down any punishment handed out by the WADA. Because we don't have a international completion like soccer, union or league.
I can see the AFL saying thanks for your recommendation but we will do this instead.

I thought the AFL reluctantly signed something a few years ago declaring that they would comply by the WADA standards, therefore they have to accept the punishment handed them by ASADA and can't do their usual trick of covering stuff up when it suits them

[Hotdog60]

I thought the AFL reluctantly signed something a few years ago declaring that they would comply by the WADA standards, therefore they have to accept the punishment handed them by ASADA and can't do their usual trick of covering stuff up when it suits them

Thanks Soupaman, this is how much faith supporters have in the AFL in doing the right thing or protecting the brand.

[bulldogtragic]

After just reading the second test thread, this was a great pick me up. Thanks BAD.

[Ghost Dog]

Too right tragic. We will be looking to the feds to do the right thing by the sport and restore a bit of faith.

[westdog54]

Maybe a dumb question but is there a declaration that all sports codes sign under a world governing body.
I guess why I'm asking is because the AFL is a domestic sport can the AFL water down any punishment handed out by the WADA. Because we don't have a international completion like soccer, union or league.
I can see the AFL saying thanks for your recommendation but we will do this instead.

Pretty sure the AFL have signed some sort of declaration of WADA compliance.

Even if they hadn't, to water down any WADA finding would end up being a PR disaster of epic proportions. Not only would they lose sponsors but probably commonwealth funding as well.

[LostDoggy]

Pretty sure the AFL have signed some sort of declaration of WADA compliance.

Even if they hadn't, to water down any WADA finding would end up being a PR disaster of epic proportions. Not only would they lose sponsors but probably commonwealth funding as well.

But would they see that through the fog of arrogance and yes-men?

[Sedat]

It is becoming an embarrassment to the AFL that the Balco Bombers are now going to be playing for top spot next Friday night. The sooner the ASADA findings are released and the infraction notices and loss points are handed out to all and sundry at Windy Hill the better it will be for the credibility of the competition and the game. Right now we are a laughing stock.

[comrade]

It is becoming an embarrassment to the AFL that the Balco Bombers are now going to be playing for top spot next Friday night. The sooner the ASADA findings are released and the infraction notices and loss points are handed out to all and sundry at Windy Hill the better it will be for the credibility of the competition and the game. Right now we are a laughing stock.

A laughing stock with a billion dollar broadcasting contract to protect.

That's all that matters to the AFL.

[LostDoggy]

He's been pretty consistent, but does he have the final say?

What someone above said, they can appeal a decision if they think it's too weak, just not sure whether they'll actually do it.

[jeemak]

It is becoming an embarrassment to the AFL that the Balco Bombers are now going to be playing for top spot next Friday night. The sooner the ASADA findings are released and the infraction notices and loss points are handed out to all and sundry at Windy Hill the better it will be for the credibility of the competition and the game. Right now we are a laughing stock.

This whole episode is going to be a defining moment in how the league is governed and how that governance washes out amongst the clubs.

Any soft stance on this issue, irrespective of the WADA or ASADA findings will paint the league as soft, and those leading it not fit for running the highest profile competition in the country.

The game has been brought into disrepute, and has most definitely suffered poor consequences resulting from the terrible management practices of the Essendon hierarchy.

It's completely unthinkable for the league not to insist on Essendon's current coaching and management structure not to be disbanded. They've had their chances to run the club professionally, and have failed dismally.

If this game is ever going to be something other than a backwater kick around amongst a boys club and a lucky few exploiting the good will of the masses that still have a romantic link to how things used to be, now's he time for it to prove it can be.

[FrediKanoute]

Have to take a tough stand, regardless. At a minimum the AFL needs to implement a clear policy of what is and what isn't allowed in terms of supplements. It should be

Game's reputation has been tarnished by this. Heck it gets airplay on the radio in the UK.

Won't happen, but the club's licence should be revoked. This is systematic cheating. Worse its clinical trials of unproven drugs on human subjects. This goes beyond premiership points.

[LostDoggy]

Leaked file reveals the afl and the Federal Government struck a deal with ASADA to "explore all avenues" to spare the Essendon players from any punishment.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-e6frg6n6-1226682793566

Interesting revelation

[Hotdog60]

Leaked file reveals the afl and the Federal Government struck a deal with ASADA to "explore all avenues" to spare the Essendon players from any punishment.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-e6frg6n6-1226682793566

Interesting revelation

The AFL is going to sweep this under the carpet you can see it coming from a mile away.

I wonder if the club involved wasn't a high grossing club that things would have already been put in place. Eg: disbanded and a licence given to Tasmania for next season.

[LostDoggy]

The AFL is going to sweep this under the carpet you can see it coming from a mile away.

I wonder if the club involved wasn't a high grossing club that things would have already been put in place. Eg: disbanded and a licence given to Tasmania for next season.

Cannot believe Vlad can reach into a body as theoretically impartial as ASADA are supposed to be and corrupt an inquiry such as this. I'll wait until the findings come out but I have a good mind to write to WADA and the ACC with a formal complaint if it looks tainted. AFL house are just obsessed with deal making and have no intent of ever allowing natural justice to play through. Disgusting unethical toffy nosed lawyers.

[Sedat]

The AFL is going to sweep this under the carpet you can see it coming from a mile away.

I wonder if the club involved wasn't a high grossing club that things would have already been put in place. Eg: disbanded and a licence given to Tasmania for next season.
They can't. WADA will see to that.

Forget the Balco Bombers for a minute, there could well be collateral damage at AFL House over this. The extraordinary lengths the AFL are going to try and get Essendon a reduced penalty and sentence is a slap in the face for 17 other clubs and their players. The cicumstantial evidence of S2 PED's being linked to the Bombers is making the world sit up and take notice. I think the AFL realise just how much if a minnow they are in the world sport scheme of things and will now gladly sacrifice Essendon to save their own asses.

[LostDoggy]

They can't. WADA will see to that.

Forget the Balco Bombers for a minute, there could well be collateral damage at AFL House over this. The extraordinary lengths the AFL are going to try and get Essendon a reduced penalty and sentence is a slap in the face for 17 other clubs and their players. The cicumstantial evidence of S2 PED's being linked to the Bombers is making the world sit up and take notice. I think the AFL realise just how much if a minnow they are in the world sport scheme of things and will now gladly sacrifice Essendon to save their own asses.

I think you're assuming that Essendon are the only team doing it. What if there are more? How many before the league falls apart? 2? 4? 10?

If they are willing to go to these lengths to save/assist Essendon, they'll go to bat just as quickly for Collingwood, Carlton, Geelong, West Coast, etc.

I'm not claiming these teams are using PEDs, I'm just pointing out that if the problem does indeed run deeper than we realise — let's face it, in January of this year most of us had no idea it was even a problem — then suddenly it becomes obvious why the AFL would go the lengths it has so far.

[SonofScray]

The whole saga is a real mess and reflects poorly on the leadership of our game and what they value. Essentially everything that occurs in this League has been rendered meaningless by it. I do't place any value in the AFL anymore, other than it being the competition the Club I follow plays in.

[Sedat]

I think you're assuming that Essendon are the only team doing it. What if there are more? How many before the league falls apart? 2? 4? 10?

If they are willing to go to these lengths to save/assist Essendon, they'll go to bat just as quickly for Collingwood, Carlton, Geelong, West Coast, etc.

I'm not claiming these teams are using PEDs, I'm just pointing out that if the problem does indeed run deeper than we realise — let's face it, in January of this year most of us had no idea it was even a problem — then suddenly it becomes obvious why the AFL would go the lengths it has so far.
Let's not get hung up on hypotheticals. Essendon are the only AFL club that has been caught with their hand in the metaphorical cookie jar, and other clubs have already raised eyebrows over the brazenness and extent of the injecting regime that was undertaken at the apparent behest of Golden Boy last season. There's a communication trail of S2 PED's directly linked to Essendon. They were the only AFL club mentioned in detail in the ACC report. They are running out games powerfully and more strongly than any other club in the last 18 months (save for their absurd rate of soft tissue injuries last year). So as far as can reasonably be concluded, no other club has gone anywhere near pushing (and most likely exceeding) the strict boundaries of illegal performance enhancing, nor have they done so under such a systematic way as Essendon has.

The NRL wasted no time in stripping the Storm of two premierships as soon as the extent of their salary cap cheating was exposed. Similarly, Carlton were rightly punished significantly when their cheating of the salary cap was exposed (even though a number of clubs had cheated the cap previously - Essendon won a flag in 1993 when cheating the cap, interestingly when David's father Ron Evans was president, the same Ron Evans who gouged millions off the paying public by colluding to ensure his company Spotless Catering won all catering rights at AFL venues).

Unlike other woof posters, I've never had a hatred of Essendon. Quite the opposite, I've always preferred seeing them succeed over the likes of Collingwood and Carlton. But this issue has riled me moreso than any other issue in the AFL for many years. They seem to think that they are above the law of every other sporting organisation on the planet, and it appears that the AFL has been complicit in fostering this arrogant attitude. I would like to see the Bombers stripped of all points this season (a highly likely scenario IMO), all coaching and medical dept personnel at the club proven to be complicit in the development and execution of this program banned from the game at any level for life, Jobe Watson stripped of his Brownlow, the club banned from participating in any national or rookie draft for the next 3 years, and any player found to have taken banned substances (irrespective of whether they are S0 or S2 classification) to be banned for the mandatory 2 years. I want to see them on their knees and unable to recover for 10+ years for the (alleged) systematic cheating they appear to have undertaken. The game is far, far more important that the self-interest of one rogue club (no matter how big or successful they are), and I suspect the penny has finally dropped for Andy D and the AFL Commission on that score.

[Maddog37]

Great post Sedat. I also feel Vlad should fall on his sword too. No wonder Adrian Anderson has cut and run.

[LostDoggy]

Great post Sedat. I also feel Vlad should fall on his sword too. No wonder Adrian Anderson has cut and run.

Love the post. Wish I had the confidence that crony house gets it. We'll see very shortly!

[Hotdog60]

Let's not get hung up on hypotheticals. Essendon are the only AFL club that has been caught with their hand in the metaphorical cookie jar, and other clubs have already raised eyebrows over the brazenness and extent of the injecting regime that was undertaken at the apparent behest of Golden Boy last season. There's a communication trail of S2 PED's directly linked to Essendon. They were the only AFL club mentioned in detail in the ACC report. They are running out games powerfully and more strongly than any other club in the last 18 months (save for their absurd rate of soft tissue injuries last year). So as far as can reasonably be concluded, no other club has gone anywhere near pushing (and most likely exceeding) the strict boundaries of illegal performance enhancing, nor have they done so under such a systematic way as Essendon has.

The NRL wasted no time in stripping the Storm of two premierships as soon as the extent of their salary cap cheating was exposed. Similarly, Carlton were rightly punished significantly when their cheating of the salary cap was exposed (even though a number of clubs had cheated the cap previously - Essendon won a flag in 1993 when cheating the cap, interestingly when David's father Ron Evans was president, the same Ron Evans who gouged millions off the paying public by colluding to ensure his company Spotless Catering won all catering rights at AFL venues).

Unlike other woof posters, I've never had a hatred of Essendon. Quite the opposite, I've always preferred seeing them succeed over the likes of Collingwood and Carlton. But this issue has riled me moreso than any other issue in the AFL for many years. They seem to think that they are above the law of every other sporting organisation on the planet, and it appears that the AFL has been complicit in fostering this arrogant attitude. I would like to see the Bombers stripped of all points this season (a highly likely scenario IMO), all coaching and medical dept personnel at the club proven to be complicit in the development and execution of this program banned from the game at any level for life, Jobe Watson stripped of his Brownlow, the club banned from participating in any national or rookie draft for the next 3 years, and any player found to have taken banned substances (irrespective of whether they are S0 or S2 classification) to be banned for the mandatory 2 years. I want to see them on their knees and unable to recover for 10+ years for the (alleged) systematic cheating they appear to have undertaken. The game is far, far more important that the self-interest of one rogue club (no matter how big or successful they are), and I suspect the penny has finally dropped for Andy D and the AFL Commission on that score.

Whilst I hope everything you have posted comes true Sedat, I have become very sceptical about the AFL and believe the no more than a slap on the wrist will ever occur.
If the AFL was fair dinkum about drug use it should have suspended the club and it's players from this years completion pending the investigation. They could have just played VFL to keep their fitness levels up. If the VFL wanted them.

[Topdog]

Couldnt have said it any better Sedat

[Remi Moses]

Well put Sedat.
The pathetic defence of they won't go tough on them because they're a big club shouldn't wash.
Heard Mark Fine on SEN using the defense of look what happened to Carlton. Really

[LostDoggy]

Let's not get hung up on hypotheticals. Essendon are the only AFL club that has been caught with their hand in the metaphorical cookie jar, and other clubs have already raised eyebrows over the brazenness and extent of the injecting regime that was undertaken at the apparent behest of Golden Boy last season. There's a communication trail of S2 PED's directly linked to Essendon. They were the only AFL club mentioned in detail in the ACC report. They are running out games powerfully and more strongly than any other club in the last 18 months (save for their absurd rate of soft tissue injuries last year). So as far as can reasonably be concluded, no other club has gone anywhere near pushing (and most likely exceeding) the strict boundaries of illegal performance enhancing, nor have they done so under such a systematic way as Essendon has.

The NRL wasted no time in stripping the Storm of two premierships as soon as the extent of their salary cap cheating was exposed. Similarly, Carlton were rightly punished significantly when their cheating of the salary cap was exposed (even though a number of clubs had cheated the cap previously - Essendon won a flag in 1993 when cheating the cap, interestingly when David's father Ron Evans was president, the same Ron Evans who gouged millions off the paying public by colluding to ensure his company Spotless Catering won all catering rights at AFL venues).

Unlike other woof posters, I've never had a hatred of Essendon. Quite the opposite, I've always preferred seeing them succeed over the likes of Collingwood and Carlton. But this issue has riled me moreso than any other issue in the AFL for many years. They seem to think that they are above the law of every other sporting organisation on the planet, and it appears that the AFL has been complicit in fostering this arrogant attitude. I would like to see the Bombers stripped of all points this season (a highly likely scenario IMO), all coaching and medical dept personnel at the club proven to be complicit in the development and execution of this program banned from the game at any level for life, Jobe Watson stripped of his Brownlow, the club banned from participating in any national or rookie draft for the next 3 years, and any player found to have taken banned substances (irrespective of whether they are S0 or S2 classification) to be banned for the mandatory 2 years. I want to see them on their knees and unable to recover for 10+ years for the (alleged) systematic cheating they appear to have undertaken. The game is far, far more important that the self-interest of one rogue club (no matter how big or successful they are), and I suspect the penny has finally dropped for Andy D and the AFL Commission on that score.

I guess I gave the impression of defending their actions, I'm just cynical, that's all. I hope for all you hope for and more — but I'm not betting the house on it.

[Sedat]

There's a lot of hot air being written and spoken about by the footy scribes, but whenever The Age call in their investigative journos (you know, proper journos that do this sort of investigative stuff for a living), their articles on this topic are well worth reading - http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-in-doctor-shopping-to-beat-ban-20130722-2qf3x.html

So courtesy of the Baker & McKenzie articles on this issue, we now have:


Charter, Dank and Hird discussing a supplement program at a pre-season camp.

Evans and Hird being briefed on the drug AOD, which is in trial stage, with a potential to invest.

Doctor shopping at least 5 doctors (excluding Essendon club doctor, Reid) in order to gain prescriptions to use via a compounding chemist, in the mistaken belief this would circumvent the s0 clause of WADA in regard to AOD.

Charter supplying Dank with copious amounts of TB-4 (a prohibited s2 drug) in 2012.

Dank used TB-4 at Cronulla in 2011.

Charters TB-4 dosage instructions to Dank match the dosage instructions on the EFC Thymosin consent forms.

Dank text to Hird that Thymosin is starting this week "and wait til you see the results".

Dank admits to Baker & McKenzie that he used TB-4 at Essendon, before retracting when told that EFC haven't admitted such.

Invoices received and paid by EFC for TB-4 and Hexarelin (also prohibited under s2 clause).


None of the above has yet to be refuted by EFC. Whatever assurances/sweetheart deals they were previously given by Andy D and the AFL have been blown to smithereens now I suspect. Self-preservation will now be the order of the day at AFL House.

Also apparently Andrew Jarman let fly on Adelaide radio today with some rumours on possible sanctions for Essendon "from a reliable source" - I'll let our Adelaide woofers comment on Jarman's track record in breaking such stories. He reckons:

* Report will be released by the end of August.
* Hird and Thompson both sacked.
* Docked of all points, no finals this year.
* Player bans looking awfully serious.
* Roos virtually locked in as coach for 2014.

I find that last point almost impossible to believe, especially if the playing group turns on the club (if they are banned) and starts to break up. Roos wouldn't want to do a 'Pagan' at Carlton and take over a rotting corpse.

[Ghost Dog]

Great Post Sedat.

I'm reminded by the final scene of Fargo, where some pathetic loser who just chopped up his mate and put him into a snow machine sits handcuffed in the back of a squad car. The cop laments " All this for a little money". Highly foolish for dubious results.
The part in the article about trying to circumvent WADA rules is pure insanity.

Have done serious damage to the greater good of our sport.

[GVGjr]

Did anyone hear Rebecca Wilson on SEN last night?

She basically said that the AFL, Essendon and ASADA have already brokered a deal.

I will try and find if her article has been published

[Ghost Dog]

Did you mean news to the effect of this GVG?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/nrl-premiership/leaked-asada-file-reveals-favourable-afl-treatment/story-fn2mcuj6-1226683122049#.Ue5K3tKbcVg

The NRL are seething.

Counter to that, I read this (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/details-of-asada-messages-to-essendon-supplements-probe-emerge/story-e6frg6n6-1226682790815) in The Australian

Former ASADA boss Richard Ings said he was "speechless" that ASADA could consider doing a deal on penalties months before the investigation was completed.
Ings said today that ASADA had no power to cut a deal on penalties for any drug violations.

"I am trying to imagine a scenario of canvassing reduced fault options in such terms before completing an investigation," he said on Twitter.

"Outlining all categories of fault is fine. Presupposing actual fault collectively pre-investigation is another entirely IMO (in my opinion)."

If they get off, fans start a grassroots campaign to boycott Essendon games.
to have clubs setting up offsite clinics, where players are injected 40 times a season with substances not approved for human use is insane. And if the AFL wants to play captain morality for the wider community on recreational drugs, they can't let this through to the keeper.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Did anyone hear Rebecca Wilson on SEN last night?

She basically said that the AFL, Essendon and ASADA have already brokered a deal.

I will try and find if her article has been published

Has anyone else found the timeline for the release of the findings ("sometime in August") extremely suspect?

I have always had a feeling that the AFL had some kind of deal in place and I suspect it may have also stretched to the timing of the release of the findings.

Essendon will be pulled from finals, player suspensions or not. The AFL will have to hand down some form of punishment against the club. Being allowed to finish the season and start the next with a full list will be an excellent result for the club.

What it will do will allow another team to take their place, with no impact on the fixture, broadcast rights, and limited impact on the AFL purse (aside bringing in a smaller team for a powerhouse).

The real kicker is that if the report and sanctions are held till after the season ends, the AFL are able to fulfil all contractual obligations with broadcasters and stadiums for the Home and away (as well as continue to derive coin from their remaining fixtures). If Essendon were pulled early it would have had huge financial implications on not only the club but also significantly to the AFL. My bet is the AFL will donate a princely sum to ASADA to thank them for their good work and help with the war on drugs.

[FrediKanoute]

My take on sanctions is simple. Essendon has to be deregistered. The systematic nature in which the organisation has sought to cheat the AFL warrants no other possible sanction. This wasn't some accidental misuse of a banned substance this was a planned and systematic program aimed at obtaining an advantage through illegal means. Its no difference to Ben Johnson and the East German training regime.

The club hasn't just broken the rules of the competition, but have broken International standards which apply to ALL sports who have signed up to the WADA code. It goes beyond the AFL and is a direct attack on the very nature of Australian sport.

Finally, subjecting players to drugs and making them sign consents and waivers with the implied threat that they wont be selected is akin to holding a needle to their vein. Why should an organisation who has the capacity to do this even be trusted to take on the responsibility of developing young footballers into men?

I don't care if they are Essendon with 60k members and a huge amount of TV followers. Their supporters if they had an ounce of appreciation for what their players have been subjected to should be disgusted. I would be.

[bulldogtragic]

My take on sanctions is simple. Essendon has to be deregistered. The systematic nature in which the organisation has sought to cheat the AFL warrants no other possible sanction. This wasn't some accidental misuse of a banned substance this was a planned and systematic program aimed at obtaining an advantage through illegal means. Its no difference to Ben Johnson and the East German training regime.

The club hasn't just broken the rules of the competition, but have broken International standards which apply to ALL sports who have signed up to the WADA code. It goes beyond the AFL and is a direct attack on the very nature of Australian sport.

Finally, subjecting players to drugs and making them sign consents and waivers with the implied threat that they wont be selected is akin to holding a needle to their vein. Why should an organisation who has the capacity to do this even be trusted to take on the responsibility of developing young footballers into men?

I don't care if they are Essendon with 60k members and a huge amount of TV followers. Their supporters if they had an ounce of appreciation for what their players have been subjected to should be disgusted. I would be.
I agree 100%. Vlad won't.

Which makes it a bigger scandal!

[anfo27]

With the stories coming out that the AFL & ASADA were working out a deal from day 1, isn't Vlad himself bringing the game into disrepute?

I'm disgusted at this story & the lengths Vlad will go to to protect his precious television rights. He needs to resign as he does not have the best interests of the game at heart.

[GVGjr]

Did you mean news to the effect of this GVG?



Yes, that is it GD.

[Ghost Dog]

I agree with Robbo on 360. The Australian people will not stand for an unjust call on this. Supporters from all clubs will be right onto it.

( I do not normally agree with Robbo, don't have much time for him ).

[Maddog37]

With the stories coming out that the AFL & ASADA were working out a deal from day 1, isn't Vlad himself bringing the game into disrepute?

I'm disgusted at this story & the lengths Vlad will go to to protect his precious television rights. He needs to resign as he does not have the best interests of the game at heart.


The buck stops with Vlad IMHO. He had knowledge and issues a warning but fails to act. The whole league has been brought into disrepute on his watch. Shameful day for our great sport.......

[LostDoggy]

I agree with Robbo on 360. The Australian people will not stand for an unjust call on this. Supporters from all clubs will be right onto it.

I would hope they won't stand for it, but I'm not so positive. We already have plenty of Essendon fans spinning themselves in knots trying to defend their club. If the media spin and theatre is played out in just the right way, you'd be surprised what the “Australian people” will stand for.

[KT31]

I agree with Robbo on 360. The Australian people will not stand for an unjust call on this. Supporters from all clubs will be right onto it.

You would hope it would not only be supporters, all AFL clubs, opposition sporting code's and the general public will have a big say.

IMO this is bigger than the Armstrong debacle, he took his drugs willingly and knew exactly what he was doing.
I cannot believe that the AFL is trying to sweep this under the carpet.
As soon as Watson admitted to taking an illegal substance he should have been suspended.
The drugs are not approved for human use and if the players are to believed that they had know idea what was being injected into their bodies, (call me sceptical but I find this very hard to believe).
This is human experimentation and I believe they not only deserve everything and more that could be thrown at them, criminal charges should be laid on those that were in the know.

[Ghost Dog]

Woke up this morning, and yes, I may be far too optimistic on the correct outcome. Have a read of this B.S.

Justin Smith (3AW) asked Gillion McLachlan: “If a club came to you and they said we're thinking of sticking this in the players, can you give us the AFL's position because it's unclear, can I put it in the player or not?”

To which McLachlan replied: “Our position would be 'No', without saying you definitely can't.” Utter spin.

Where is Vlad? on leave. Great leadership eh?

GVG, an article today that runs counter to the one about a " leaked document" from News. All hot air, says the Australian.

Link (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/nrl-in-a-league-of-its-own-no-risk-of-testing-positive-to-competence/story-e6frg7uo-1226683992910)

Still, Ings, the former boss of ASADA says he can't see a path whereby players will escape bans that include games.

[Sedat]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/the-real-story-behind-the-asada-investigation-will-be-told-no-matter-who-it-upsets/story-fndujljl-1226684212593

Grab the popcorn, sit down and enjoy the show. It's about to get very interesting by the looks.

[bulldogtragic]

You have to wonder on the mixed messages of the AFL...

Gary Ablett Snr is refused hall of fame based on issues in his private life, after football. To admit him in the HoF would be to damage the brand. If that's the test, then fine.

Yet when Essendon systematically drug it's playing group with illegal substances, some not fit for human use, where is the AFL at in trying to re-purify the brand???

They need to take a lesson from cycling... Admit there was an issue, that some 'cheated' and commit to it never happening again, and punish much beloved world heroes as a statement of intent that you control the destiny of the sport.

[Hotdog60]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/the-real-story-behind-the-asada-investigation-will-be-told-no-matter-who-it-upsets/story-fndujljl-1226684212593

Grab the popcorn, sit down and enjoy the show. It's about to get very interesting by the looks.

I hate Rugby League with a passion (sorry to the woofers that are the opposite). But I'm glad that other code will step up publicly to keep to investigation and hopefully the AFL honest.

[Sedat]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/asada-told-of-andrew-demetriou-call-during-bombers-drugs-meeting/story-fni5f6kv-1226684619904

So Andy D (allegedly) gave Essendon the heads-up before the ACC report was released? Surely not, Essendon came clean of their own volition, those brave hearty souls :rolleyes:

Now that Vlad has been implicated in whistle-blowing the story to Essendon before the ACC release, and subsequently made efforts to cover up the story and reduce the penalties handed to Essendon, I think it's fair to say that whatever 'agreement' Vlad and David Evans might have conjured up at the start will be tossed in the bin, and self-interest will take over.

Could it be possible that Essendon is punished into submission and Andy D also falls on his sword over the whole affair? This story is like a snowball gathering pace down the mountain top - it just gets bigger and bigger.

[comrade]

Could it be possible that Essendon is punished into submission and Andy D also falls on his sword over the whole affair?

We can only hope but I'm not as bullish as you are.

[Sedat]

This story from early 2012 makes for very interesting reading now:
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/afls-war-with-sports-scientists-20120312-1uwi3.html

Especially this comment from Anderson....."Sports scientists, high performance managers, whatever you want to call them, have a very legitimate and important role to play in the game,'' said Anderson. ''But we need to make it clear that doctors are the only ones qualified to be making medical decisions".

[bulldogtragic]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/asada-told-of-andrew-demetriou-call-during-bombers-drugs-meeting/story-fni5f6kv-1226684619904

So Andy D (allegedly) gave Essendon the heads-up before the ACC report was released? Surely not, Essendon came clean of their own volition, those brave hearty souls :rolleyes:

Now that Vlad has been implicated in whistle-blowing the story to Essendon before the ACC release, and subsequently made efforts to cover up the story and reduce the penalties handed to Essendon, I think it's fair to say that whatever 'agreement' Vlad and David Evans might have conjured up at the start will be tossed in the bin, and self-interest will take over.

Could it be possible that Essendon is punished into submission and Andy D also falls on his sword over the whole affair? This story is like a snowball gathering pace down the mountain top - it just gets bigger and bigger.
Thanks Sedat, that's. great way to start the day!

How many PR people will Vlad have running around the clock ATM running interference for him?

My reaction. Vlad says he didn't tip them off the night before. This position is because he didnt know which club(s) the ACC referred to with questionable supplement programs. Yet, the AFL advised Essendon and Hird about not using peptides etc.....

1) So is Vlad saying he was not aware Essendon/Hird made such a top level request for info? - I can't believe for a second Vlad wouldn't be aware if it. So I call bullshit on this.

2) How many AFL clubs were likely to be undertaking a peptide supplement program? Not 18? - Vlad has not denied speaking to other clubs me might of 'suspected'. I call bullshit on this.


Vlad would have at very least had suspicions on Essendon. He speaks to Evans, not a pleb. He speaks to him the night before, not in business hours the next day, but in the period he knows the ACC is moving. And has a discussion about the topic of the ACC investigation. Hours later, Essendon take the high road and manfully come forward....

I hope ASADA, WADA, ACC and the Fed. Govt are paying close attention.

Edit - I just read his transcript from 3aw. Vlad says he had a meeting with the ACC, where they nominated clubs and drugs. He suspected Essendon. Evans calls him the next night and wants to know if Essendon are implicated. Vlad decides he should call back ASAP and say he doesn't know for certain... Really... At best this is a very poor decision.

Imagine if this wasn't a private organisation, say governmental.... The Office of Police Integrity brief the Chief Commissioner. They advise of dubious policing practices at police stations. The CC suspects the Essendon Police Station. Before the process plays out, the Officer in Charge of Essendon contacts the CC and wants to know if they have been implicated, he leaves a mobile phone message one night..... The CC then returns the call almost immediately that night and says he said nothing of consequence. But hours later, the Essendon Police Station volunteer themselves to 'internal affairs' amid concerns of a cover-up.

We'd have a bloody royal commission.

[Ghost Dog]

This story from early 2012 makes for very interesting reading now:
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/afls-war-with-sports-scientists-20120312-1uwi3.html

Especially this comment from Anderson....."Sports scientists, high performance managers, whatever you want to call them, have a very legitimate and important role to play in the game,'' said Anderson. ''But we need to make it clear that doctors are the only ones qualified to be making medical decisions".

Good in theory, but doctors are part-time. So they can't be expected to make 100% of the decisions at a club.

Vlad will be checking for phone taps, I can tell you. It's one recording or leaked letter away from becoming disaster number 1 in Australian sport.

[1eyedog]

Good in theory, but doctors are part-time. So they can't be expected to make 100% of the decisions at a club.

Doctors can be part time but still make 100% of the medical decisions at the club. Even if they are not there in person they can still be consulted 24/7.

They are the qualified authority.

[Ghost Dog]

Doctors can be part time but still make 100% of the medical decisions at the club. Even if they are not there in person they can still be consulted 24/7.

They are the qualified authority.

I want to agree with you on this point, but people working at Footy clubs tend to disagree on this point, just down to practicality. Some smaller clubs like North only have a doctor there a few days a week.

[1eyedog]

I want to agree with you on this point, but people working at Footy clubs tend to disagree on this point, just down to practicality. Some smaller clubs like North only have a doctor there a few days a week.

Fair enough I'm not across their role I just thought everything medical would have to go through them.

[Ghost Dog]

You would think so, 1eyedog. It's all very well for the AFL to say this to appease the community, but I'm sure a bandage or a few tablets will be taken care of here and there without a doctor, just as they won't be around until the following week.

[Mofra]

Imagine if this wasn't a private organisation, say governmental.... The Office of Police Integrity brief the Chief Commissioner. They advise of dubious policing practices at police stations. The CC suspects the Essendon Police Station. Before the process plays out, the Officer in Charge of Essendon contacts the CC and wants to know if they have been implicated, he leaves a mobile phone message one night..... The CC then returns the call almost immediately that night and says he said nothing of consequence. But hours later, the Essendon Police Station volunteer themselves to 'internal affairs' amid concerns of a cover-up.

We'd have a bloody royal commission.
... and every public servant found to behaved inappropriately would be facing dismissal under the Public Service Act.
Essendon will keep employees after this affair is finished that should count themselves lucky.

[Mofra]

Good in theory, but doctors are part-time. So they can't be expected to make 100% of the decisions at a club.
That's fair enough - but Doc Reid at Essendon (who isn't there full time) wasn't just absent at times, he was completely frozen out of the whole process.

That speaks volumes of how the whole program operated, a respected club doctor forced to sit on the outer as Essendon window shopped for doctors who would give them dodgy prescriptions.

[Ghost Dog]

I agree with you Mofra. For the bigger clubs, who are paying up to half a million a year for sports 'science' there is absolutely no excuse. EFC players were taken off site and injected 40 times a season with a substance not approved for humans. The letter from Reid to the board was 'lost'. It's extraordinary, and makes Sedat's Balco call actually much more accurate than a mere heckle.

[Sedat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-told-asada-demetriou-tipped-off-bombers-20130725-2qkt2.html

Well, well, well. Looks as though the holy triumvirate of Vlad, Evans and Hird is already starting to crumble.

[bulldogtragic]

Vlad needs to be stood down, on full pay, pending an investigation.

[jeemak]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-told-asada-demetriou-tipped-off-bombers-20130725-2qkt2.html

Well, well, well. Looks as though the holy triumvirate of Vlad, Evans and Hird is already starting to crumble.

It has to break into every man for themselves soon, surely?

[westdog54]

Its all unravelling at a rate of knots isn't it. This could end extraordinarily badly for all involved.

[Ghost Dog]

Caro jumping the gun a bit? If you watch the press conference, he doesn't claim a tip off at all. Just that Vlad called him the night of their meeting.

[bulldogtragic]

It has to break into every man for themselves soon, surely?
Hird was asked today if Vlad did anything wrong by calling and speaking to Evans the night before the storm.

Hird said "I wouldn't have thought he has, but I'm not the ACC, I'm not ASADA."

Hardly putting out the fire...

[1eyedog]

It has to break into every man for themselves soon, surely?

I would think that behind the scenes it already has.

[LostDoggy]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-told-asada-demetriou-tipped-off-bombers-20130725-2qkt2.html

Well, well, well. Looks as though the holy triumvirate of Vlad, Evans and Hird is already starting to crumble.

Getting all warm and tingly. Its starting to feel like my birthday and christmas all getting rolled up into a glorious day just around the corner :D

[Mofra]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hird-told-asada-demetriou-tipped-off-bombers-20130725-2qkt2.html

Well, well, well. Looks as though the holy triumvirate of Vlad, Evans and Hird is already starting to crumble.
... and when it does, who has the most power to wield out of the three?

Certainly not anyone who travels to Tullamarine or Windy Hill on a daily basis.

[bulldogtragic]

No different than O'Grady today.

Brand them a cheat, strip them of everything and banish them.

Interesting the attitudes of th media and powers that be.

[Sedat]

... and when it does, who has the most power to wield out of the three?

Certainly not anyone who travels to Tullamarine or Windy Hill on a daily basis.
Yep, I suspect there's a world of hurt heading the way of EFC. But they will do whatever they can to try and deflect some of that pain down the Tullmarine Fwy to Docklands.

I don't think any rational person is buying the line that Essendon and the AFL only found about the drug scandal when the ACC report was released in Feb. Take this little morsel from Vlad way back in March 2012:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/afl-out-to-curtail-powers-of-physedders-20120315-1v829.html

Who do you think Vlad was referring to in this quote:

"They need to understand that their influence should be limited to how they put their team out on the park, but that's where it stops," Demetriou said.

"The decision makers at clubs (relating) to medical issues are the club doctors, that's in our rules and regulations.

"If anyone is not abiding by that they should be very careful, because there are strict financial sanctions.

"Phys-edders don't overrule doctors."

So it has been established that the AFL warned Hird about the peptide program as far back as late 2011, then Vlad is declaring was on 'phys-edders' in March 2012. And yet nothing at all was done to put a stop to the shady practices at any stage last year. If it is proven that Vlad deliberately sought to bury this issue, he should suffer the same consequences as the EFC.

[FrediKanoute]

If Vlad has warned Essendon of the ACC investigation he has probably breached some form of NDA he was required to sign.

[anfo27]

Yep, I suspect there's a world of hurt heading the way of EFC. But they will do whatever they can to try and deflect some of that pain down the Tullmarine Fwy to Docklands.

I don't think any rational person is buying the line that Essendon and the AFL only found about the drug scandal when the ACC report was released in Feb. Take this little morsel from Vlad way back in March 2012:
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/afl-out-to-curtail-powers-of-physedders-20120315-1v829.html

Who do you think Vlad was referring to in this quote:

"They need to understand that their influence should be limited to how they put their team out on the park, but that's where it stops," Demetriou said.

"The decision makers at clubs (relating) to medical issues are the club doctors, that's in our rules and regulations.

"If anyone is not abiding by that they should be very careful, because there are strict financial sanctions.

"Phys-edders don't overrule doctors."

So it has been established that the AFL warned Hird about the peptide program as far back as late 2011, then Vlad is declaring was on 'phys-edders' in March 2012. And yet nothing at all was done to put a stop to the shady practices at any stage last year. If it is proven that Vlad deliberately sought to bury this issue, he should suffer the same consequences as the EFC.

Thats it in a nutshell for me. Essendon will get what they get but Vlad has to get his right whack. We've been hearing for long time now that Essendon are confident their players will be fine based on ASADA investigators telling them they won't face suspensions. Vlad orchestrated this deal & its now blown up in his face.
Now he is denying he knew about Essendons problems. My mate who is an Essendon nut told me he heard about this story weeks ago when Essendon self reported. Now if he knew how on earth would Vlad not know!
His position is quickly becoming untenable.

[Ghost Dog]

[/B]

Thats it in a nutshell for me. Essendon will get what they get but Vlad has to get his right whack. We've been hearing for long time now that Essendon are confident their players will be fine based on ASADA investigators telling them they won't face suspensions. Vlad orchestrated this deal & its now blown up in his face.
Now he is denying he knew about Essendons problems. My mate who is an Essendon nut told me he heard about this story weeks ago when Essendon self reported. Now if he knew how on earth would Vlad not know!
His position is quickly becoming untenable.

Or is it how the media has orchestrated it. The other argument is ( not sure I believe it ) ASADA gave an outline of the whole process, including the part where under special cases, there would be exemptions. The media jumped on this small part to indicate Essendon would get a soft landing.

[anfo27]

Or is it how the media has orchestrated it. The other argument is ( not sure I believe it ) ASADA gave an outline of the whole process, including the part where under special cases, there would be exemptions. The media jumped on this small part to indicate Essendon would get a soft landing.

But everything we have heard coming out of Essendon has suggested this is what the Essendon players have been told. For months these Essendon maggots have been so confident that their players will not face sanctions. The media are scum but they are onto something here.

[Ghost Dog]

But everything we have heard coming out of Essendon has suggested this is what the Essendon players have been told. For months these Essendon maggots have been so confident that their players will not face sanctions. The media are scum but they are onto something here.

If you can actually stand going over to Bomber Blitz ( hold your nose, good god their mods let the leash go don't they? ) you are right anfo. Posters with supposed 'close connections' have been saying this for some time. I'm not sure if this is an error in how the players interpreted ASADA and their classification of AOD whatever, or if ASADA actually did give them a bit of hope. Either way, things seem to have turned for the worse against the EFC this week.

Mike Sheehan comes out and paints a darker possible picture than last week.

[bulldogtragic]

To surmise 360 tonight.

AFL and ASADA hold an investigation based on the ACC report.
Two participants in the investigation implicate the AFL CEO.
The AFL investigation does not have this claim independently tested.
The AFL CEO was provided copies of the allegations, before it concluded. WTF!
Hird and Dank etc are not given copies of other people's statements so they can fight PR battles.
The AFL investigators decide to 'clear' their boss based on 'conflicting information'.
The ACC use this finding as a basis for claiming the AFL CEO did not breach non-disclosures, despite 2 statements alledging a breach.


What the hell process is this? This needs government or anti-corruption commissions to sort this out. This is a scandal of monumental proportions.

Oh, and how can The EFC board meet tonight and not spend one breath on trying to establish the extent of any culpability of any person especially when the chairman and head coach have two very different positions on the same event to ASADA and in public, including implicating the AFL CEO in potential breaches of ACC non disclosure agreements.

If this was us, I'd be threatening my membership.

[Doc26]

Speaking on 3AW radio this morning, Demetriou also firmly denied the claim.

"(I was asked) whether I tipped off David Evans before they came forward ... and I stated yesterday categorically, as I did on previous occasions, that I did not," Demetriou said.

"And I did not for one simple reason: I didn’t know who the club in question was. The AFL wasn't aware of who the club was in question because the ACC, who briefed us a few days earlier on the Thursday, wouldn't disclose to us who the clubs involved were."

"There absolutely was a discussion that I had with David because I'd spoken to him throughout the day and I did ring him that night because I was returning his phone call. But it wasn't tipping off David Evans that Essendon was the club because we didn't know who the club was."



"Dave, I really truly can't tell you who the AFL Club is in question that is currently being investigated by the ACC for systematic use of peptides such as AOD9604, you know those ones that we warned Hirdy about back in 2011, sorry Dave I really don't know which Club that could possibly be, any suspicions Dave ?"

Falling apart at the seams.

[Happy Days]

I have never really held any animosity toward Essendon, but Vlad is *!*!*! out of this so how awesome is it?

[Remi Moses]

Should be very careful in what AFL regime you want.
Demetriou's hardly perfect , but just be careful what you wish for .
The James Hird head kickers are working overtime to keep the Golden Boy's image intact.

[bornadog]

Should be very careful in what AFL regime you want.
Demetriou's hardly perfect , but just be careful what you wish for .
The James Hird head kickers are working overtime to keep the Golden Boy's image intact.

One thing about Vlad, he wants us part of the AFL. Who knows what other possible CEOs can dream up.

[bulldogtragic]

One thing about Vlad, he wants us part of the AFL. Who knows what other possible CEOs can dream up.
He wants 18 teams for his TV rights deal. Not sure if he cares whether the 18th licence is the WBFC.

But I am cynical.

[Remi Moses]

One thing about Vlad, he wants us part of the AFL. Who knows what other possible CEOs can dream up.

That's my point Borna. Demetriou has his faults but at least he doesn't want to close the joint down

[jeemak]

He wants 18 teams for his TV rights deal. Not sure if he cares whether the 18th licence is the WBFC.

But I am cynical.

Pretty sure Vlad couldn't give a toss about us as more than a means to an end.

He is on record as stating the long term sustainability of the game is derived from ensuring revenues are maximised by nothing other than optimisation of the fixture and TV rights. He couldn't give a shit if it was us that delivered either of those outcomes, or another club that did.

[Sedat]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-fears-drug-deceit-20130726-2qq3f.html

Excrement, please meet fan :D

This has now gone criminal. Evans and Hird better pray there is no physical evidence linking them to these clinical AOD trials from an investment perspective. Forget suspensions, they may have bigger concerns like not bending over for the soap.

[comrade]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-fears-drug-deceit-20130726-2qq3f.html

Excrement, please meet fan :D

This has now gone criminal. Evans and Hird better pray there is no physical evidence linking them to these clinical AOD trials from an investment perspective. Forget suspensions, they may have bigger concerns like not bending over for the soap.

Say what you will about Caro, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the fact that she will not let this go. Other journos might fear harming long term friendships/sources and decide to go soft - i.e. every football reporter at the Herald Sun and Fox Footy - but she is going for the jugular and keeping those involved accountable.

[bulldogtragic]

Holy crap!

[Twodogs]

Should be very careful in what AFL regime you want.
Demetriou's hardly perfect , but just be careful what you wish for .
The James Hird head kickers are working overtime to keep the Golden Boy's image intact.



Spot on Remi. I'd take Demitriou over non thinking economic rationalists like Oakley (how soon we forget "up yours Oakley") and Jackson any day.

He has also said that the competition needs 10 clubs in Melbourne many times.

[azabob]

Say what you will about Caro, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the fact that she will not let this go. Other journos might fear harming long term friendships/sources and decide to go soft - i.e. every football reporter at the Herald Sun and Fox Footy - but she is going for the jugular and keeping those involved accountable.

Well said Comrade.

Now wait for either the sun, afl or Essendon to dismiss her article either today or tomorrow.

[Greystache]

Spot on Remi. I'd take Demitriou over non thinking economic rationalists like Oakley (how soon we forget "up yours Oakley") and Jackson any day.

I wouldn't even give Jackson that much credit, he must be the only CEO in the world who believes the key to running a successful company is to constantly look for ways to get smaller and reduce your income streams. I look back at some of his ideas and cringe that he was ever in charge.

The fact that he couldn't even say the word Bulldog didn't do him any favours either.

[Ghost Dog]

Spot on Remi. I'd take Demitriou over non thinking economic rationalists like Oakley (how soon we forget "up yours Oakley") and Jackson any day.

He has also said that the competition needs 10 clubs in Melbourne many times.

One thing that separates Oakley from the Liberal power brokers who are behind the whole Hird camp is the fact he used to be a player.

[LostDoggy]

Spot on Remi. I'd take Demitriou over non thinking economic rationalists like Oakley (how soon we forget "up yours Oakley") and Jackson any day.

He has also said that the competition needs 10 clubs in Melbourne many times.

Sorry, but I don't care if the Dogs end up somehow indirectly worse off. We can't hack away at Essendon's and the AFL's integrity then claim Vlad needs to stay because it suits our own interests.

[LostDoggy]

Demetriou tried to relocate his old club, he would relocate us in a heartbeat

[FrediKanoute]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-fears-drug-deceit-20130726-2qq3f.html

Excrement, please meet fan :D

This has now gone criminal. Evans and Hird better pray there is no physical evidence linking them to these clinical AOD trials from an investment perspective. Forget suspensions, they may have bigger concerns like not bending over for the soap.

my thoughts on reading this article was that if proven then there should be some very worried people. I think we are talking life bans for the key people running the program.

[LostDoggy]

Evans just resigned.

[Ghost Dog]

Evans just resigned.

Leaving a sinking ship.

[Remi Moses]

Demetriou tried to relocate his old club, he would relocate us in a heartbeat

They could also stop the special distribution fund.
We signed off on the Etihad farce at the end of the day.
He's not perfect, but if you got economic rationalists in ala Kennett we'd be history.

[bulldogtragic]

Efc & afl = joke

[jeemak]

They could also stop the special distribution fund.
We signed off on the Etihad farce at the end of the day.
He's not perfect, but if you got economic rationalists in ala Kennett we'd be history.

Vlad has one master, and one master only which is maximising revenues. Whether it be from TV rights, or gate receipts it doesn't matter.

We're only in the game because it served his purpose to ensure a critical mass of games and clubs combined to achieve his goals. If his role was layered with incentives to reduce cost and streamline the league accordingly, he'd send our club to the cleaners without even stopping to put sugar on his Corn Flakes.

[Remi Moses]

You maybe right ^^^ but lets be frank previous administrators Ross Oakley killed off the club.
The other Wayne Jackson is on record advocating less Melbourne teams.
Better the devil you know

[Remi Moses]

Say what you will about Caro, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the fact that she will not let this go. Other journos might fear harming long term friendships/sources and decide to go soft - i.e. every football reporter at the Herald Sun and Fox Footy - but she is going for the jugular and keeping those involved accountable.

Couldn't agree more. Some of the boys club journalists are spineless to be honest.
Hird's condemned by his words when this broke out.
" I'm responsible for what happens in this footy dept"
Yes you are James and everyone involved should not absolve themselves from responsibility.

[Sedat]

Couldn't agree more. Some of the boys club journalists are spineless to be honest.
Hird's condemned by his words when this broke out.
" I'm responsible for what happens in this footy dept"
Yes you are James and everyone involved should not absolve themselves from responsibility.
It's like a weird cult, everyone is lining up to sacrifice themselves just to protect the Queen Bee. Meanwhile Queen Bee is doing everything possible to throw everyone else under the bus and take the fall just to protect his reputation. Hird is narcissism personified.

[comrade]

It's like a weird cult, everyone is lining up to sacrifice themselves just to protect the Queen Bee. Meanwhile Queen Bee is doing everything possible to throw everyone else under the bus and take the fall just to protect his reputation. Hird is narcissism personified.

Someone on the other site said it's like Jonestown 30 minutes before everyone drinks the Kool-Aid and Hird is Jim Jones.

Regarding Evans, if he 100% believed Essendon was going to avoid any punishment surely he would have held on for a few more weeks until the ASADA report is handed in.

[1eyedog]

It's like a weird cult, everyone is lining up to sacrifice themselves just to protect the Queen Bee. Meanwhile Queen Bee is doing everything possible to throw everyone else under the bus and take the fall just to protect his reputation. Hird is narcissism personified.

He behaves like he is untouchable and likely was told by Vlad that he was. He also has a natural air of arrogance about him likely a residual effect of his playing days.

He seriously looked like a man on the edge when he was interviewed post match on Friday.

[LostDoggy]

Someone on the other site said it's like Jonestown 30 minutes before everyone drinks the Kool-Aid and Hird is Jim Jones.

Regarding Evans, if he 100% believed Essendon was going to avoid any punishment surely he would have held on for a few more weeks until the ASADA report is handed in.

Nobody wants to be on the bridge when you've run aground.

[Ghost Dog]

I've chatted to a few Essendon supporters. My Dad is one of them.
They seem a little bit ignorant of the facts around their own club's programs. This is a good lesson.
You can let the passion of your colours blind you in the way of reality. Hope every club can learn from this thing.

Leigh Matthews comes out and says he isn't proud of the player he was, despite his success.
This is another good lesson. That old cliche of growth over result. Do we really believe that a premiership is 'ultimate' success, to be gotten no matter what?

[LostDoggy]

I've chatted to a few Essendon supporters. My Dad is one of them.
They seem a little bit ignorant of the facts around their own club's programs. This is a good lesson.
You can let the passion of your colours blind you in the way of reality. Hope every club can learn from this thing.

Leigh Matthews comes out and says he isn't proud of the player he was, despite his success.
This is another good lesson. That old cliche of growth over result. Do we really believe that a premiership is 'ultimate' success, to be gotten no matter what?

I've never held that view, and that's why I love the Dogs like I do. Sure, we don't play the last day in September, but for the most part we are honest, clean and doing it the tough hard way.

Now, I could be wrong — and if I was, it would be goodbye. I wouldn't stand for an Essendon or a St Kilda.

[Remi Moses]

Interesting, the weapon interview hasn't been aired and Essendon are denying everything he says.
Cult like love for Hird, it's getting Charles Manson like

[The Adelaide Connection]

http://youtu.be/SU5j-mLlDQU

7:30 Report kicked off a big week in the supplements saga tonight. Some interesting viewing.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for posting that Adelaide Connection. The way the drape the story in dark shadows, and edit it, with the music is quite enjoyable really!

[LostDoggy]

As interesting as the Hird cult is the media's obsession with outing the golden boy. Not that I disagree—he's looking increasingly guilty—but it's still interesting nevertheless.

[KT31]

Thanks for posting TAC, hopefully Hird and company will get what is deserved.

[Ghost Dog]

It seems very odd to me that calve's blood turns out to be legal if injected, but not if taken on a drip. What's the difference??

[Sedat]

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dons-told-drug-was-not-legal-20130730-2qxqq.html#ixzz2aXTp5JEn

Awesome, so this magical letter of consent that Essendon has been hanging their hat on for AOD is actually a presentation from the manufacturer of the substance. Not only that, their idea of due diligence is to take the recommendations from a Californian Gym Owner that everything was hunky dory with regard to AOD. You can't make up this level of incompetence if you tried :D

[bulldogtragic]

Forget cheating, bringing the game into disrepute... They should be charged with "stupidity". Both for doing this to the game and their public handling of everything.

[bulldogtragic]

The Australian today, Patty Smith: (no link, it's my subscription via the app)

HIRD LOVES HIMSELF MORE THAN THE CLUB


THIS has been James Hird's year of shame. A season where he put his own reputation ahead of the club that he had served so wonderfully, so skilfully for 253 matches. And a club that cherished and revered him in return. Loved him.

Last year, sport scientist Stephen Dank was pushed. In February, high-performance manager Dean Robinson was stood down and then finally last week he walked away altogether.

Chief executive Ian Robson left the club in May and on Saturday night president David Evans, brutally torn apart by the ASADA investigation, resigned. Effective immediately.

Yet Hird, the man who took full responsibility for the highly suspicious supplements program in February, remains. It makes no sense, nor is it fair or appropriate.

Hird is coach of the club. Historically, it is by title a role of great accountability. Hird's reputation only enhanced the power of the position and the obligations that attend it. Yet he is numb to all this.

He spoke quietly and with a sad voice after the big loss to Hawthorn on Friday. "The sooner this thing is over, the better, because this has affected so many people's lives that if it's not over very quickly, it's going to affect people's lives permanently. It has to finish because it's not fair on so many people," Hird said.

"This week's another week of six months of living through an ordeal that people shouldn't have to live through. I don't want to go into personal instances because that will all come out . it's just got to finish, it has to finish.

"There's a belief the players haven't taken anything illegal in our football club. Our belief is still strong in that and a report that comes out in two weeks, I'm not sure of the exact date, and when it does, we're all hopeful, we're all praying that that's the case because our belief is that we haven't done anything illegal and we are not drug cheats."

Hird's post-game reflection came too late for Evans. He could neither physically nor mentally give any more to the club that his father Ron starred for as a full forward and then served as chairman. He also chaired the AFL Commission. David Evans wanted to leave a legacy of which his father could be proud. He has done that in the dignified and sensitive manner he has steered the club through this wretchedness, but late on Saturday night his will shuddered to a stop.

It could have, and should have, been different. Hird should have been true to his word when he said at a news conference on February 5 that he took full responsibility. It was after Essendon announced it had called in ASADA and the AFL to investigate a supplements program, supported by Hird, that may have breached WADA protocols.

At that very point Hird should have stepped to the side. He was the coach, it was his staff administering the supplements. He encouraged it. He did not know that the program was in danger of breaking WADA rules -- in fact he wanted to be assured that it wasn't -- but he authorised it nonetheless. There would always be heat in this story for it is a scandal unprecedented in AFL history. But had Hird stood down in February then it would have been a slow burn and not the wildfire it has been all season.

If Hird took succour in the support of fans, then he was deluded. Supporters have no sense of proportion, no sense of right or wrong when anything involves their football teams. When it comes to judgment and football, supporters are mostly knuckleheaded.

While Hird remained coach he would always draw intense scrutiny from the media, more than if he had walked away and waited for the inquiry to run its course. Not only did he arrogantly and selfishly stay on as coach, he hired people to manage the fallout. Last week the Hird camp went after AFL chief Andrew Demetriou.

Hird's camp leaked evidence alleging Demetriou had phoned Evans to alert him to an inquiry into his club by the Australian Crime Commission. Evans had convened a meeting of Essendon officials on the eve of the club reporting its supplement issue to ASADA. Demetriou had been briefed by the ACC the previous week about the growing use of drugs in sport, including the AFL, but was given no specific information about any club. The ACC briefing was strictly confidential.

Of itself the leak of Hird's memory of what took place at the meeting mattered little. ASADA had discarded the coach's version and accepted the Demetriou and Evans testimony that Demetriou did not tip off the club. ASADA did not even bother to contact Demetriou and the ACC had no issue with the conversation. It was a non-story.

That was until Hird -- at a news conference later that day -- chose not to bow to the version of the phone call offered by his chairman and the AFL chief. He appeared to deliberately doubt the word of Evans and Demetriou. A scheduled board meeting that night was suddenly described as a "crisis meeting" and Demetriou angrily denied he had breached ACC confidentiality.

While Hird inexplicably went after Demetriou, he ended up also publicly doubting the word of his chairman. It left Evans's loyalties stretched -- he is a friend to both Hird and Demetriou. A PR trick had turned into a disaster for the coach. Hird does not have spin doctors working for him but bloodied butchers.

Essendon is in a critical state. Evans, greatly respected throughout football and business, has gone. The club has an acting chief executive. The ASADA report may well charge players with drug-related breaches.

The AFL will no doubt punish the club for the ravaging of the game's image. The Essendon players wilted after only 20 minutes against Hawthorn, possibly fatigued -- finally -- from a fight they never started. And still Hird arrogantly clings to his right to the witches hats.

It appears Hird simply cannot see the reality of the circumstances that have surrounded him since February 5.

It is hardly wild opinion to think Hird will be remembered as a champion who loved himself more than his club, more than his friends. Certainly more than he did David Evans.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for posting that. He looked very ordinary on 7.30 last night.

Hey unfair! St Kilda have had their yearly scandal early. Ahmed Saad, the bloke with the most annoyingly long run up (or walk up ) for goal has tested positive to something. Darn, I hope they do something else in the post season to give me to read about.

[FrediKanoute]

Smith is spot on in his analysis of the Golden Boy. There has been not responsibility, no accountability, no regret. This is bigger than tanking, salary cap breaches and draw inequities, because all of those are central to the competition. Drugs/supplements are an international scourge in world sport and you can't help but contrast Essendon's approach to that of Asafa Powell who has returned a positive test. In the latters case there was an acknowledgement of a wrong doing etc. All we have from Essendon is denial. It makes me ill.

I have said it previously and I will say it again, the lengths that Essendon have gone to to cheat demand a commensurate sanction, which for mine has to be the deregistration of the club from the competition.

[Remi Moses]

The contrast between the athletes and Essendon is stark.
Hird said he's responsible for what happens in the footy dept.
End of Story.
All his done since and his hired help is defend himself and his tarnished image .
Pretty pathetic really!!

[LostDoggy]

The contrast between the athletes and Essendon is stark.
Hird said he's responsible for what happens in the footy dept.
End of Story.
All his done since and his hired help is defend himself and his tarnished image .
Pretty pathetic really!!

Well, when you're a has-been in charge of a mediocre football list, it's all you've got.

[Ghost Dog]

Zahrakis, the only EFC player to refuse to join the supplements program at Essendon. What moral courage, what fortitude....oh...wait....he's scared of needles.

[bulldogtragic]

Zahrakis, the only EFC player to refuse to join the supplements program at Essendon. What moral courage, what fortitude....oh...wait....he's scared of needles.
So you're saying people scared of needles are weak? :)

[Ghost Dog]

So you're saying people scared of needles are weak? :)

Now, now tragic, tell the truth. Do you need a choc-ice to be encouraged to take your needle like a big brave boy? :)

Ha I guess I read the headline, and thought, good on you! and then it was like oh. He's just scared of needles, otherwise he would have gone along with it all.

[bulldogtragic]

Now, now tragic, tell the truth. Do you need a choc-ice to be encouraged to take your needle like a big brave boy? :)

Ha I guess I read the headline, and thought, good on you! and then it was like oh. He's just scared of needles, otherwise he would have gone along with it all.
No. I just cry until the doctor says I don't have to. :)

I thought I was fine after spending a heap of time in hospitals over the past few years, but I got offered a free flu shot 6 weeks ago and I said "I'll think about it first". Well i thought about it, it would be an unnecessary ouchy. So I haven't gone back...

[Maddog37]

The banned substance was used in a cream too wasn't it?

[anfo27]

35 seconds of the interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4Fheo5ZtFk&sns=em

[Greystache]

Watching the post interview discussion of the Robinson interview and it's hilarious seeing Mark McVeigh uniformly defend ask things Hird and Essendon. Surely the Bombers would've been better placed sending their spin doctor instead, at least they wouldn't waffle through their attempts at deflection.

McVeigh is a muppet!

[Sedat]

Watching the post interview discussion of the Robinson interview and it's hilarious seeing Mark McVeigh uniformly defend ask things Hird and Essendon. Surely the Bombers would've been better placed sending their spin doctor instead, at least they wouldn't waffle through their attempts at deflection.

McVeigh is a muppet!
The panel was nothing more than an Essendon love-in. No amount of ex footballers will cushion the blow when ASADA bring the hammer down.

Looking forward to the next instalment from Baker and McMenzie in The Age. Investigative reporters on one hand, Spike 'only vitamins' McVeigh on the other :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

So you're saying people scared of needles are weak? :)
He better hope he's strong — he may be their only player next year.

Watching the post interview discussion of the Robinson interview and it's hilarious seeing Mark McVeigh uniformly defend ask things Hird and Essendon. Surely the Bombers would've been better placed sending their spin doctor instead, at least they wouldn't waffle through their attempts at deflection.

McVeigh is a muppet!
Loved watching him hide behind the investigation when asked an anti-Hird/anti-Essendon question, but not hesitate to sink the knife into Dank/Robinson.

He has shifty eyes. Dad always warned me about shifty eyes.

Have to say, didn't believe Robinson much. I think we're all getting caught up in Hird vs AFL vs Robinson vs Dank vs Evans and so on.

They're ALL guilty, to varying degrees, in my opinion.

[Twodogs]

Watching the post interview discussion of the Robinson interview and it's hilarious seeing Mark McVeigh uniformly defend ask things Hird and Essendon. Surely the Bombers would've been better placed sending their spin doctor instead, at least they wouldn't waffle through their attempts at deflection.

McVeigh is a muppet!



He's defamed quite a few people along the way too. I wonder if he understands that you just can't accuse people of telling flat out lies and not expect comeback from them. He's called four liars in the twenty minutes I watched.


If Kyle Reimers was dead he'd be spinning in his grave.

[Remi Moses]

The panel was nothing more than an Essendon love-in. No amount of ex footballers will cushion the blow when ASADA bring the hammer down.

Looking forward to the next instalment from Baker and McMenzie in The Age. Investigative reporters on one hand, Spike 'only vitamins' McVeigh on the other :rolleyes:

Get it right Sedat it was vitamin c injections .
The AFL boys club defending its own.

[Greystache]

He's defamed quite a few people along the way too. I wonder if he understands that you just can't accuse people of telling flat out lies and not expect comeback from them. He's called four liars in the twenty minutes I watched.


If Kyle Reimers was dead he'd be spinning in his grave.

I'm not convinced McVeigh understands much about anything. It seems everything he knows could be summarised as "Essendon good" "anything not Essendon bad".

If they re-make Animal Farm McVeigh could get a role as a sheep.

[Throughandthrough]

Leigh Matthews had obviously made up his mind before the interview was shown, I doubt he even watched it


And fully agree re McVeigh.


Meanwhiles, David Zaharakis is my new dream team lock

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree with the posts above on McVeigh. It was frustrating to watch, felt like reaching through the television and slapping him across the face.

How about when he denied whether Hird had a phone call whilst in America to Dank? How in the actual hell would McVeigh know if he did or not? His blind bias made me sick.

The only person with any credibility on that show was Stevens, who posed some good questions, and genuinely wasn't sticking/sucking up to Hird.

[Remi Moses]

Mcveigh's slanderous comments on ex-teammate Reimers was embarrassing when this all kicked off.
Reimers had the gonads to tip the bucket.

[GVGjr]

The one thing that has really hit home over the last week with me is the toll it is taking on those concerned.

I don't think the players were intentionally given something they shouldn't have been but the whole process was flawed.
The AFL needs to push through and provide the answers as soon as is possible.

I think every player at every club needs to demand a full explanation on what supplements they are being given.

There is no doubt in my mind that many parents of prospective AFL players will now try and encourage them to play another sport. Long term impacts could be huge.

It looks like this will be heading to court with Essendon challenging everything.

[Ghost Dog]

The one thing that has really hit home over the last week with me is the toll it is taking on those concerned.

I don't think the players were intentionally given something they shouldn't have been but the whole process was flawed.
The AFL needs to push through and provide the answers as soon as is possible.

I think every player at every club needs to demand a full explanation on what supplements they are being given.

There is no doubt in my mind that many parents of prospective AFL players will now try and encourage them to play another sport. Long term impacts could be huge.

It looks like this will be heading to court with Essendon challenging everything.



I think most athletes at professional level are exposed to this new world of high performance supplements. All top athletes have to negotiate this slippery slope.

I talked to a mate who played for England under 18's and teaches now at Geelong Grammar. Still has a few friends playing in the premier league. In regards to supplements and scandals, the same kinds of regimes go on in IPL all the time, and Rugby has its issues.

I like your idea of the AFL being the 'pharmacy' for all 18 clubs, but if everyone knows what everyone else is taking, the clubs will argue " how can we gain a competitive edge? ".

It looks like the AFL has to invest more money in education and detection. Also, shorten the season, and just play less footy so players have more time to recove

[Throughandthrough]

Agree with the posts above on McVeigh. It was frustrating to watch, felt like reaching through the television and slapping him across the face.

How about when he denied whether Hird had a phone call whilst in America to Dank? How in the actual hell would McVeigh know if he did or not? His blind bias made me sick.

The only person with any credibility on that show was Stevens, who posed some good questions, and genuinely wasn't sticking/sucking up to Hird.

Agree,Stevens was the best by far. Lingy was interesting too but wss a bit of a fence sitter Darcys input into the panel was biased , I thought

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree,Stevens was the best by far. Lingy was interesting too but wss a bit of a fence sitter Darcys input into the panel was biased , I thought

When Darcy first broke into the media, I thought he provided some unique and honest commentary but he has certainly fallen into the "buddy, buddy" trap.

[LostDoggy]

When Darcy first broke into the media, I thought he provided some unique and honest commentary but he has certainly fallen into the "buddy, buddy" trap.

Or, he believes in what he says.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Or, he believes in what he says.

If that's what you want to believe.

[LostDoggy]

If that's what you want to believe.

Nah, not really, but it should at least be an option eh?

[LostDoggy]

An interesting thought just occurred to me: if the players wanted to argue that they were unwittingly and unwillingly embroiled in all of this, surely they'd need to show that they were pressured or forced into participating in the program. We've heard the lines already, "In a team culture, you go with the team".

Zaharakis didn't, and he doesn't seem to have been treated any differently or punished in any way. So implying that the players didnt have 100% of the choice in participation doesn't stand up.

[1eyedog]

If / when Hird goes and the players are banned for two years just watch them turn on the club. It will get pretty nasty before it's all done.

[Doc26]

If / when Hird goes and the players are banned for two years just watch them turn on the club. It will get pretty nasty before it's all done.

Revelations will continue to come to light as currently listed players are gradually removed from their Hird/EFC cocoon. Reimers won't be the last delisted Bomber to feel aggrieved at being delisted and in 'their eyes' having their AFL career finish prematurely. The media will be feasting on this for some years.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

An interesting thought just occurred to me: if the players wanted to argue that they were unwittingly and unwillingly embroiled in all of this, surely they'd need to show that they were pressured or forced into participating in the program. We've heard the lines already, "In a team culture, you go with the team".

Zaharakis didn't, and he doesn't seem to have been treated any differently or punished in any way. So implying that the players didnt have 100% of the choice in participation doesn't stand up.

Indeed.

But according to McVeigh, it was only because he "doesn't like needles" :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

Indeed.

But according to McVeigh, it was only because he "doesn't like needles" :rolleyes:

That makes it worse. It was so voluntary a program that a player could opt out merely from a fear of needles (which I share, btw) and nobody bothered him about it?

If it was so unimportant, why do it?

Lots of convenient back turning going on.

[soupman]

If / when Hird goes and the players are banned for two years just watch them turn on the club. It will get pretty nasty before it's all done.

Surely the players will try to sue for lost earnings. If they do get banned, it pretty much ends the old guys and fringe players careers (Gumby, Fletcher) and takes out two massive development years for their younger players, also severely reducing their earning ability (Carlisle, Heppell).

[LostDoggy]

If I was ASADA and I was basing a decision on Robinsons evidence the other night I would be finding them not guilty. The only key message I could find beneath the bluff, blunder and slightly manufactured emotion:

- Robinson doesn't like Essendon
- Hird asked for a supplements campaign using cutting edge supplements but not illegal ones
- Dank ran up a $60,000 bill that was unauthorised that included $47,000 of "oxygen therapy" which might be useless (or might be useful) but is not a drug barred by WADA
- Robinson was given the heave-ho as the man in charge of a department that had no oversight on the funds
- Robinson is too stupid to take responsibility
- Hird should probably have been held accountable for the fund issue as well but wasn't which is typical in a scenario where one manager is overly loved and another is not. Stupid but not illegal.
- Hird is probably vainer than we thought and is probably injecting things to look young/fit and has done all his life since his playing days. Pathetic and a bit sad but not illegal.
- The was no proof of the AOD blah blah blah that I could see.

I reckon the Dons are right to feel confident if that's all anyone's got.

I hope I'm wrong as I'd love too see their ruddy club's back broken over ASaaD's knee but I just couldn't see any real substance (ho, ho.....)

[Ghost Dog]

If I was ASADA and I was basing a decision on Robinsons evidence the other night I would be finding them not guilty. The only key message I could find beneath the bluff, blunder and slightly manufactured emotion:

- Robinson doesn't like Essendon
- Hird asked for a supplements campaign using cutting edge supplements but not illegal ones
- Dank ran up a $60,000 bill that was unauthorised that included $47,000 of "oxygen therapy" which might be useless (or might be useful) but is not a drug barred by WADA
- Robinson was given the heave-ho as the man in charge of a department that had no oversight on the funds
- Robinson is too stupid to take responsibility
- Hird should probably have been held accountable for the fund issue as well but wasn't which is typical in a scenario where one manager is overly loved and another is not. Stupid but not illegal.
- Hird is probably vainer than we thought and is probably injecting things to look young/fit and has done all his life since his playing days. Pathetic and a bit sad but not illegal.
- The was no proof of the AOD blah blah blah that I could see.

I reckon the Dons are right to feel confident if that's all anyone's got.

I hope I'm wrong as I'd love too see their ruddy club's back broken over ASaaD's knee but I just couldn't see any real substance (ho, ho.....)

Agree, Robinson's interview was just a lot of "he said this". He might find that $100,000 evaporates in court fees.

Paul Brukner writes " Why should Essendon players escape sanctions?" (http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/1677149/players-escape-sanction-its-hard-to-see-why/?cs=12)

When he lays it out like that, Essendon loathing punter can chill. They will be charged, players and club, and will face suspensions. According to this article, there's no two ways about it.

I feel for the parents; If my son was injected with anti-dementia drugs to improve their decision making on field, I'd be livid. These drugs are for people in their advanced years, who don't usually live long enough to feel the long term effects. I have no idea how Hird can claim he had the best interests of player welfare at heart.

And what of Bomber Thompson? Naive to say the least, if he thinks above is not cheating.

[LostDoggy]

I like Peter Brukner's version better than mine :)

Just didn't see any substance supporting it the other night.

[bulldogtragic]

Wows.com.au - Hird to suppress ASADA report


Essendon coach James Hird is reportedly considering an injunction to suppress the findings of ASADA's doping investigation if it fails to show Bombers players took a banned substance.

Hird has hired human rights barrister Julian Burnside QC who will lead Hird's response to the ASADA report, according to The Australian.
Revelations of the likely looming legal stoush come after Essendon returned fire on Dean Robinson, rubbishing the ammunition that their former high performance manager fired at Hird.
The AFL club's six-month supplements crisis took another ugly turn on Wednesday night when Robinson unloaded on Hird and the Bombers in a paid interview with Channel Seven.

Robinson, nicknamed The Weapon, also said he had been suicidal at times since the club stood him down on February 5, the day Essendon revealed they were coming under anti-doping investigation.

He resigned last week and plans to sue the club - but in the meantime has made a series of explosive allegations during the extended interview.

Robinson said Essendon wanted to make him a scapegoat and accused Hird of driving last year's controversial supplements program at the club.

New Bombers chairman Paul Little hit back on Thursday, saying Robinson's allegation were a personal attack against Hird that had no foundation.

"Clearly visible to me was a man who was stressed, frustrated and tired - there is no doubt this ordeal is extracting a huge personal toll on everyone involved," Little said in an article on the club website.

"Not withstanding this, I cannot let what was claimed last night go unchallenged, as much of it was patently false or distorted.

"What went to air - largely unchallenged by Channel Seven - was a series of uncorroborated allegations by a disgruntled, disaffected and discredited ex-employee.

"Overall, this interview was an unjustified personal attack on one man (Hird) which deeply offends Essendon, its staff and its players."

Little added that Essendon were seeking legal advice.

Hird and then Little flatly denied Robinson's claim that federal police had once raided the Essendon coach's house over a drugs case.

"They've never raided my house," Hird told reporters on Thursday morning.

Little also said:

* Hird never asked Robinson to investigate an undetectable cream.

* The Essendon coach has only seen Shane Charter, the subject of the police drug investigation, once since 2003-04.

* Hird "categorically denies" the renewed allegation that he was injected once or twice a week.

* Essendon and Hird have never suspected Collingwood, West Coast or Hawthorn of using illegal or prohibited substances.

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou, who returns from an overseas fact-finding trip this weekend, told Triple M that no other clubs were under investigation.

Hird said he had watched some of the Robinson interview.

When asked if Robinson could be trusted, Hird said: "Who knows?"

The AFL hope that the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) will report its findings from the Essendon investigation this month.

[LostDoggy]

Don't know if EFC will be seriously penalised over any of this (I have no faith that they will) but I do know that a lot of lawyers are going to make a lot of money.

[cinder]

Why would you want the report suppressed if you had nothing to hide? At any rate the supporters and most importantly members deserve to know the truth. Bad form, Hird.

[bulldogtragic]

Why would you want to report suppressed if you had nothing to hide? At any rate the supporters and most importantly members deserve to know the truth. Bad form, Hird.
Hird "I can't wait for the ASADA report to clear my name. But I don't want anyone to know that"......

[Dancin' Douggy]

History shows that drug cheats lie and lie and lie, and then lie louder and harder, and then threaten to sue and then hire legal teams and then lie some more until they're right at the edge of the cliff and the lie is exposed. THEN they admit it and say how sorry they are.

I don't believe James Hird for one second.

[cinder]

Hird "I can't wait for the ASADA report to clear my name. But I don't want anyone to know that"......

Exactly. I'm quite baffled to be honest. I've supported him so far, but now ... something (in fact a lot of things) don't sit right.

[Bulldog4life]

AFL presser tonight at 7.40pm

[Throughandthrough]

History shows that drug cheats lie and lie and lie, and then lie louder and harder, and then threaten to sue and then hire legal teams and then lie some more until they're right at the edge of the cliff and the lie is exposed. THEN they admit it and say how sorry they are.

I don't believe James Hird for one second.

You missed the bit about playing the victim

[jeemak]

If Hird's got nothing to hide I'd hate to see the arsenal of lawyers and PR types he'd have on display if he actually did!

He hired Julian Burneside today.

[Remi Moses]

Is Hird the most image conscious sportsman of all time?

[Remi Moses]

If Hird's got nothing to hide I'd hate to see the arsenal of lawyers and PR types he'd have on display if he actually did!

He hired Julian Burneside today.

The Footy media's fan boy love ( new age term for sycophant?) for this bloke is disturbing..:eek:

[bulldogtragic]

The ASADA report is now the 'interim ASADA report'. Hmmm.

[LostDoggy]

The ASADA report is now the 'interim ASADA report'. Hmmm.

They're waiting for the final chapter to be written.

[bulldogtragic]

They're waiting for the final chapter to be written.
Ok. On a different issue, how bad does it look that the biggest thing to hit the AFL has occurred while Vlad and his puppy are knowingly overseas.

[LostDoggy]

It's disgraceful leadership. Nothing apart from illness or a death in the family should see him overseas during this period.

[LostDoggy]

ASADA have made a mockery of this entire process. I hope WADA drills them to the wall.

[Doc26]

Ok. On a different issue, how bad does it look that the biggest thing to hit the AFL has occurred while Vlad and his puppy are knowingly overseas.

Knowingly overseas to hopefully finally resolve the biggest issue facing our Club and the other minnows, an unequal and unjust competition that Demetriou and co. are currently responsible for and overseeing and one that the Commission must also ensure is resolved expeditiously. Personally I'm more than glad that this Equalisation focussed trip wasn't put on the back burner.

[Ghost Dog]

Is Hird the most image conscious sportsman of all time?

Melatonin, plucked eyebrows, the blonde tips and Hexorelin. Heck, I wouldn't coach without them.

[bornadog]

Knowingly overseas to hopefully finally resolve the biggest issue facing our Club and the other minnows, an unequal and unjust competition that Demetriou and co. are currently responsible for and overseeing and one that the Commission must also ensure is resolved expeditiously. Personally I'm more than glad that this Equalisation focussed trip wasn't put on the back burner.

Heard Peter saying this morning that the AFL is 30 years behind some of the leagues in the USA On equalisation

[wimberga]

Knowingly overseas to hopefully finally resolve the biggest issue facing our Club and the other minnows, an unequal and unjust competition that Demetriou and co. are currently responsible for and overseeing and one that the Commission must also ensure is resolved expeditiously. Personally I'm more than glad that this Equalisation focussed trip wasn't put on the back burner.

Agree with this. The Media all went angry at Demetriou of leaving the country to go on this equalisation trip, all because they are unable to get their sound bites from him.

He can't do or say anything until the report is actually released, and it's just tokenism that sees him remaining in the country whilst this is all happened.

Equalisation is a huge issue, particularly for our club and I am also really happy that it wasn't put on the back burner.

[azabob]

If Essendon players are found to have taken banned substances and they escape penalties then Saad should also be let off also.

Can't have rules for some and rules for others.

[azabob]

As DOC says, I have no issues with Demetriou being overseas to investigating how to make our game better.

What I have an issue with is his yearly overseas trip for 4-5 weeks in the middle of the footy season.

[GVGjr]

If Essendon players are found to have taken banned substances and they escape penalties then Saad should also be let off also.

Can't have rules for some and rules for others.

The rules might be different because they are different issues. Saads relates to game day.
The problem with the Essendon players is that no one is certain which players have received certain supplements.

I think it's the Essendon personnel and the administration of the supplements that will cop the brunt of the fall out more than the players. The players deserve something but I think it will be a penalty rather than a ban.

It's a chilling reminder for all players to be 100% certain of what they are taking. Coaches that plead ignorance because it's supposedly the sports science department area of expertise deserve no leniency.

[azabob]

The rules might be different because they are different issues. Saads relates to game day.
The problem with the Essendon players is that no one is certain which players have received certain supplements.

I think it's the Essendon personnel and the administration of the supplements that will cop the brunt of the fall out more than the players. The players deserve something but I think it will be a penalty rather than a ban.

It's a chilling reminder for all players to be 100% certain of what they are taking. Coaches that plead ignorance because it's supposedly the sports science department area of expertise deserve no leniency.

You are right GVGjr. For some reason I get the feeling it will be easier for the governing bodies (AFL & ASDA) to penalise and make an example of Saad rather than the PR machine of Hird and Essendon.

[Hotdog60]

You are right GVGjr. For some reason I get the feeling it will be easier for the governing bodies (AFL & ASDA) to penalise and make an example of Saad rather than the PR machine of Hird and Essendon.

If Saad cops it and Watson who admitted it to the media doesn't. Saad should go to the media and reference why am I the only one being punished for being a DH.

[The Adelaide Connection]

The cynic in me says the timeline for the release of their comments on the findings + the 14 days the Bombers get to respond will coincide with the end of the final round of the H&A season.

This will mean that no fixtures will be affected, the AFL wont lose income, and they wont have to compensate networks/stadiums etc.

[LostDoggy]

Saad should get his whack like the rest of them. If Saad is let off how does that look at how Matthew Clark from Frankston VFL was banned. One rule for all, whether its the Bombres or lower grades.

[bulldogtragic]

Saad should get his whack like the rest of them. If Saad is let off how does that look at how Matthew Clark from Frankston VFL was banned. One rule for all, whether its the Bombres or lower grades.
And Mattys case was just as extenuating. He and teammates were taking the supplements when they were actually approved and the substance changed from ok, not not ok, on July 1st (from memory). He just didnt know of the change in status. So when he took it he honestly believed it was approved by ASADA. Sound familiar?

How did that argument stack up on appeal?

[bornadog]

And Mattys case was just as extenuating. He and teammates were taking the supplements when they were actually approved and the substance changed from ok, not not ok, on July 1st (from memory). He just didnt know of the change in status. So when he took it he honestly believed it was approved by ASADA. Sound familiar?

How did that argument stack up on appeal?


Clark, 22, is serving a two-year suspension handed down by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA), after he was found guilty of taking a banned substance whilst playing for Frankston in the VFL in 2011.

His story has been well documented.

He accepted a pre-match drink named 'Hemo Rage' from a teammate and afterwards, tested positive to an ingredient named Dimethylamylamine.

Clark says he was aware that he would be drug tested that day, but was assured by his teammate that the product was within the drug code.

Initially handed a nine-month ban, ASADA appealed the decision, and eventually, Clark was given the maximum two years.

Don't forget Wade Lee, he was importing performance enhancing drugs and hadn't even taken the stuff and got banned for 18 months.:eek:

[SonofScray]

SEN reporting that Hird has been asked by Essendon to stand down. All happening?

[bulldogtragic]

SEN reporting that Hird has been asked by Essendon to stand down. All happening?
Ricciuto said this on SA radio this arvo, seems to be the origin of this.

360 was fascinating. Robbo and Thompson know something, but refused to elaborate. Seems a story there.

[GVGjr]

SEN reporting that Hird has been asked by Essendon to stand down. All happening?

I'd be very surprised. Little has been put in the hot seat primarily to challenge the AFL and to go to court etc. It would be a massive back down at this stage

[GVGjr]

This is the response by Essendon

Essendon Football Club categorically denies the baseless rumours and speculation tonight in the media about an 'ultimatum' in relation to the future of coach James Hird.

As a Club we are incredibly frustrated by the decision of some sections of the media to report unfounded and untested gossip.

The fight hasn't really begun yet.

[SonofScray]

Seems like Little is going to throw his financial clout around and threaten legal action in the hope it will test the resources and resolve of those who are on the other side of the scenario.

Essendon really are a lame collective of human beings.

[KT31]

If Saad cops it and Watson who admitted it to the media doesn't. Saad should go to the media and reference why am I the only one being punished for being a DH.

Can't understand the alliance for Saad, he should go to the media and say he took an illegal substance and as a role model he should just cop his right wack.
His findings has nothing to do with the Essendon scenario and they will be all judge accordingly.

[Hotdog60]

Can't understand the alliance for Saad, he should go to the media and say he took an illegal substance and as a role model he should just cop his right wack.
His findings has nothing to do with the Essendon scenario and they will be all judge accordingly.

Not so much an alliance, but a call for justice. If both are guilty??? One has test positive and one has admitted to it. Should one get off and one not.

[Sedat]

I continue to be amazed at the amateur hour commentary of the cheerleaders, sorry reporters, in relation to the supplements scandal. There are simply too many conflicts of interest with the scribes, all of whom rely on the AFL meal ticket to fund their salaries. Almost to a man, no sportsman/woman has escaped anything less than a 6 month ban, even without the appearance of a positive test. WADA will simply not sit idle and watch their drug code be embarrassed by the fanciful notion of no penalties being handed out to the Essendon players. If the players fully cooperate with ASADA officials, they might get as little as 6 months, but 2 years is more like what will happen when the dust settles.

In light of the above, I think deregistering Essendon for 2 years is still very much on the cards, which is why I suspect that the AFL is working towards starting the season a month earlier so that they can make up the number of games to honour their broadcast agreements. The words I've heard coming from the inner sanctum are 'self-inflicted' - make of that what you will. I don't think there is much love between the AFL and Essendon, especially after David Evans was sacrificed by the Bombers to protect their Queen Bee.

[Ghost Dog]

Why the hell was Saad playing on the weekend? Drag him FFS.

[FrediKanoute]

I don't think any Essendon players are going to cop bans based on this article

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/teflon-dons-escape-drug-bans/story-fnca0u4y-1226691731338

In some ways I'm not surprised, no positive tests just a heap of circumstantial evidence.

The AFL is right thogh to target the administrators of the supplements program. I just hope the scapegoats aren't Robbo and Dank. It has to go further and deeper. Just following instructions is no excuse, but equally, no knowing what your subordinates was doing is just as bad (if not worse).

[bulldogtragic]

Geez. Retaining Jack Rush AND Jules Bunside. Add Rob Richter and you've got the trifecta...

[Greystache]

I don't think any Essendon players are going to cop bans based on this article

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/teflon-dons-escape-drug-bans/story-fnca0u4y-1226691731338

In some ways I'm not surprised, no positive tests just a heap of circumstantial evidence.

The AFL is right thogh to target the administrators of the supplements program. I just hope the scapegoats aren't Robbo and Dank. It has to go further and deeper. Just following instructions is no excuse, but equally, no knowing what your subordinates was doing is just as bad (if not worse).

I've never expected any players to be suspended, the AFL just doesn't want it to happen. I think a fine is all that will come out of it in the end. I'm even expecting Hird to keep his job given 5 others have taken the fall for him.

[chef]

Why the hell was Saad playing on the weekend? Drag him FFS.

You're allowed between the A & B samples being tested, it's in the rules.

[Ghost Dog]

I stand corrected Chef.

[Sedat]

I don't think any Essendon players are going to cop bans based on this article

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/teflon-dons-escape-drug-bans/story-fnca0u4y-1226691731338

In some ways I'm not surprised, no positive tests just a heap of circumstantial evidence.

The AFL is right thogh to target the administrators of the supplements program. I just hope the scapegoats aren't Robbo and Dank. It has to go further and deeper. Just following instructions is no excuse, but equally, no knowing what your subordinates was doing is just as bad (if not worse).
Another clueless article by a scribe that should know better. The interim report was never released for the purpose of proving any PED usage by the players, it is only to highlight governance issues at the club - the interim report, coupled with Essendon's own Ziggy report, are all that the AFL need to punish Essendon for bringing the game into disrepute over their shoddy governance (will be awfully hard for Essendon to disprove this), thereby removing their premiership points and saving the finals series from being hopelessly compromised. Then the fun starts with ASADA having all off-season to complete their final report, whereby the players will in all likelihood get smashed for their use of banned substances. This process is following what USADA did in the Lance Armstrong case.

Does anybody honestly believe that Hird would go to the trouble of hiring the best QC's in the business if he didn't know he was in all sorts of trouble? Not to mention the fact that he has tried to suppress the release of the interim report findings from the general public, even though he's spent the past 6 months telling the footy world he 'looks forward to everything coming out in the ASADA report'. He knows he's stuffed.

[SonofScray]

David Galbally, despite his own agenda representing The Weapon, hi the nail on the head re: AFL's own conflict of interest in the whole saga and the need for an independent tribunal or commission. They just cannot be trusted to deliver a fair and reasonable outcome. If Essendon walk away without too much damage, regardless of their guilt or innocence, no one would ever accept that we've seen a fair and uncompromised process deliver a just result.

It will hang over Essendon forever and damage the credibility of the game.

[Sedat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-given-banned-drugs-20130806-2rdvs.html

So we have Dank previously admitting on the public record to giving the players Thymosin Beta 4, which is a banned PED under the s2 classification. Then he later tries to retract that statement, even though there's an invoice for Thymosin directly linked to Essendon. And it was administered to 11 players.

I reckon all the positive spin and puff pieces in the media are designed to give the club false hope until Round 23, then the gloves will well and truly come off. I cannot see how WADA will allow anything less than the mandatory 2 years for these 11 players, considering that Thymosin Beta 4 is a known banned PED. Did the players know what they were taking? Probably not (although they stupidly signed consent forms). Is ignorance an excuse? Never has been, and won't be in this instance. They'd probably get 6 months minimum for taking an s0 classified drug like AOD-9604, but Thymosin takes it to a whole new level. The club is rooted (including the players).

Only vitamins eh Spike :rolleyes:

[Sedat]

I've never expected any players to be suspended, the AFL just doesn't want it to happen. I think a fine is all that will come out of it in the end. I'm even expecting Hird to keep his job given 5 others have taken the fall for him.
If it was up to them, I've no doubt the AFL would try to water down any penalties. But it is ultimately out of their hands.

[Sedat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wagons-are-circling-for-legal-stoush-20130806-2rdk4.html

As it emerged the World Anti-Doping Agency could yet demand Essendon players be charged, leading AFL player agents have begun to consult lawyers in case players are suspended and legal action against the club is required.

The ASADA report also leaves open the possibility that state work safety laws have been breached, meaning there could be civil or criminal action against Essendon.

Now the players know that they are potentially in all sorts of trouble, expect to see serious ramifications against the club via civil and criminal action by the players. And so they should - the club has been completely derelict in their basic duty of care to the players.

[Dancin' Douggy]

The AFL's handling of the Melbourne tanking affair was so lame and limpfisted.

So transparent and self serving.

I don't think they can get away with that crap this time around.

[Varangian]

Hird is an interesting case study and certainly is a template for the tall poppy syndrome.

It is very conflicting that the chairman, chief executive and head coach claim to have known nothing, which at first was entirely believable given the credentials of the three.
The dimension of human nature is “confidence before realism”. So strong is this desire to succeed, to avoid loss, to elevate our social standing that we can deny reality. I believe we carry this instinct, like we do with many other evolutionary traits, with us from our years competing on the savannah and it continues to often drive our behaviour.

One of two things is happening in the minds of the Essendon war leaders, they have either delevoped a primordial pack 'group think' mentality and are strengthened by that against all oncomers or the prospect of the truth has become too painful to consider, so they turn a blind eye.

At Essendon, the mantra of club before individual has certainly gone out the window.

[Mofra]

WADA guideline state that clubs can be banned if more than 2 players have taken PEDs.

I think the AFL will find a way to keep Essendon in the competition next year, but wowsers this could get very, very ugly.

[Varangian]

WADA guideline state that clubs can be banned if more than 2 players have taken PEDs.

I think the AFL will find a way to keep Essendon in the competition next year, but wowsers this could get very, very ugly.

I think that if they do they will compromise the integrity of WADA and all that fairness in sport stands for.

Our game risks falling off the edge of the world in terms of reputation and opportunity to develop both internally and externally. If that happens then the AFL can kiss global expansion (NZ, South Africa, Asia) goodbye.

Essendon's action affect not just Essendon and its people but the greater good of the game and for that they need to be made an example of.

[LostDoggy]

WADA guideline state that clubs can be banned if more than 2 players have taken PEDs.

I think the AFL will find a way to keep Essendon in the competition next year, but wowsers this could get very, very ugly.

Could the AFL find a legal loophole whereby the Essendon VFL team gets handed a provisional licence* for 2014 (or beyond). Are they a seperate entity?
Team filled with blow-in's from here and there, proceed to get smashed each week, but 'Essendon' is still in the marketplace.

As a side note - could the AFL grant a provisional licence to a SANFL/VFL club for the period Essendon are deregistered? A moutnain of headaches no doubt, as they'd have to be mostly funded by the AFL.

It's either of these scenarios* or the AFL re-works the fixture for an extended amount of time with 17 teams, gets into a legal inefield with the free to air and pay tv stations about the rights agreement etc.

* should Essedon get deregistered

[Sedat]

WADA guideline state that clubs can be banned if more than 2 players have taken PEDs.

I think the AFL will find a way to keep Essendon in the competition next year, but wowsers this could get very, very ugly.
Agree with your assertions Mofra. I don't think the wider public know just how grave this situation is, and the candy-coated coverage of it in then media over the last 6 months hasn't helped. The hot air expelled by most of the scribes over fringe issues mean nothing to WADA - the rules and responsibilities are black and white. And because WADA has the authority to impose club-based sanctions over and above the individual player sanctions in both the Essendon and Cronulla cases, the AFL has no choice but to contemplate contingencies for a 17 team competition next year and possibly the year after. It would be their worst nightmare but if there are 11 or possibly more Essendon players suspended for 2 years (and potentially numerous other for at least 6 months), they may not have a choice in the matter.

It's a more extreme example but I doubt the East German athletes and swimmers in the 70's and 80's would have had any idea of exactly what they were being administered at the time. Ignorance won't save the Essendon players, nor should it. But it then won't save Essendon from a litany of legal action against it by angry players (and their greedy player agents) who have been completely exposed by the club.

Ugly isn't the half of it.

[bulldogtragic]

From worksafe Vic website:

Safety And Prevention

WorkSafe Victoria, the VWA's occupational health and safety arm, takes the lead role in the promotion and enforcement of health and safety in Victorian workplaces. WorkSafe has a team of more than 450 field officers, investigators, work-site technical experts and support staff spread throughout a network of city, suburban and regional offices.

The WorkSafe team is responsible for improving workplace safety through implementing the organisation's comprehensive constructive compliance strategy which focuses on information and education, incentives, enforcement, investigations, prosecutions and penalties.

In general, the type of enforcement action taken by WorkSafe Victoria follows assessment of the situation and consideration of the following factors:

- extent of the risk
- seriousness of the perceived breach and the actual or potential consequences
- whether or not the situation or hazard type is targeted by WorkSafe Victoria for priority prevention activity
- impact of the regulatory action, especially its impact on encouragement and deterrence
- compliance history of the employer, and
- whether or not the incident of non-compliance is of considerable public concern.

[whythelongface]

Sedat thanks for all your links and your comments on the issue. You seem to have a good understanding of the legal implications that surround the matter.

[Mofra]

Getting serious... could it be?

Rory Cahill
@rmcahill
BREAKING: AFL to confirm Hird bound by Anti Doping Code, ASADA report to confirm hexarelin use. Hird gone. Stories to follow.

[Twodogs]

Getting serious... could it be?

Rory Cahill
@rmcahill
BREAKING: AFL to confirm Hird bound by Anti Doping Code, ASADA report to confirm hexarelin use. Hird gone. Stories to follow.



Jeyzus!!!!!! The excrement has hit the oscillator.

[bulldogtragic]

From twitter/boundforglory.com
AFLCA: Hird can be sanctioned for alleged Hexarelin use
AFLCA: Hird can be sanctioned for alleged Hexarelin use Posted by Ben Cuzzupe on 7 August, 2013
Aug, 07, 2013


An AFLCA spokesperson has confirmed James Hird can be sanctioned under the relevant guidelines for alleged personal use of the WADA banned substance Hexarelin.

In a statement to Bound For Glory News, a spokesperson for the AFL Coaches Association indicated that under Section 3 of the AFL’s Anti-Doping and Illicit Drugs Policy, AFL coaches are listed under ‘Club Officers’ under subsection 3.1 (b).

The spokesperson for the Coaches Association was adamant Hird was bound by the AFL’s Anti-Doping Code.

“As senior coaches, they must adhere to the Rules and Regulations of the AFL. This includes the Anti-Doping and Illicit Drugs Policy, but also Racial and Religious Vilification Policy, Respect and Responsibility Policy and any others as determined by the AFL.”

In April, News Limited reported Hird was injected numerous times with the WADA-banned substance Hexarelin.

Both former Essenon fitness guru Dean Robinson and sports scientist Stephen Dank have claimed on separate occasions that Hird and other Essendon coaching staff were injected with Hexarelin on multiple occasions, although Hird denies the claims.
There have also been claims that invoices for the drug were processed by Essendon, something the club denies.

Hird has denied these claims he was injected with the banned drug.

Hexarelin is listed as a Schedule 2 banned substance by WADA and ASADA. Punishment for use of a Schedule 2 involves a two-year suspension which can be brought down to six months if a number of conditions, including full co-operation by the athlete or coach in question, are met.

The AFL has been contacted for comment.

More to follow.

[Sedat]

Getting serious... could it be?

Rory Cahill
@rmcahill
BREAKING: AFL to confirm Hird bound by Anti Doping Code, ASADA report to confirm hexarelin use. Hird gone. Stories to follow.
Mark Ricciuto clearly has some very reliable sources!

[anfo27]

Who is this Rory Cahill?

[Twodogs]

:o:)
Mark Ricciuto clearly has some very reliable sources!


And he hasn't backed down. He is 100% certain that Hird will be gonski by tomorrow afternoon.

[jeemak]

Mark Ricciuto clearly has some very reliable sources!


:o:)


And he hasn't backed down. He is 100% certain that Hird will be gonski by tomorrow afternoon.

Wonder if Ricciuto and Goodwin still talk...................

[Mofra]

Wonder if Ricciuto and Goodwin still talk...................
Interesting point. Ricciuto reconfirmed his source was "trusted" after Essendon denied his story. Must be pretty sure

[Varangian]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-players-given-banned-drugs-20130806-2rdvs.html

So we have Dank previously admitting on the public record to giving the players Thymosin Beta 4, which is a banned PED under the s2 classification. Then he later tries to retract that statement, even though there's an invoice for Thymosin directly linked to Essendon. And it was administered to 11 players.

I reckon all the positive spin and puff pieces in the media are designed to give the club false hope until Round 23, then the gloves will well and truly come off. I cannot see how WADA will allow anything less than the mandatory 2 years for these 11 players, considering that Thymosin Beta 4 is a known banned PED. Did the players know what they were taking? Probably not (although they stupidly signed consent forms). Is ignorance an excuse? Never has been, and won't be in this instance. They'd probably get 6 months minimum for taking an s0 classified drug like AOD-9604, but Thymosin takes it to a whole new level. The club is rooted (including the players).

Only vitamins eh Spike :rolleyes:

I believe Spike is still picking Hird's teeth out of his knee. I don't think Spike will ever believe he can ever make it up to James after nearly killing him.

[Greystache]

Getting serious... could it be?

Rory Cahill
@rmcahill
BREAKING: AFL to confirm Hird bound by Anti Doping Code, ASADA report to confirm hexarelin use. Hird gone. Stories to follow.

He can't back away from this quickly enough now. :D


For record, I didn't even write the story all this is coming from. Deleted initial Tweets. Not CONFIRMED Hird took hex. He denies this.


To clarify, no PROOF Hird took hexarelin and he has denied. Until proven, entitled to innocence. But he IS subject to AFL Anti Doping Code.


I should correct that then.


Jeez, calm down everyone. For record, until shown Hird did anything banned, entitled to presumption of innocence. Retract "gone" claim.


Should have said "believe" he is gone. Not enough characters!


Indeed. Immediately clarified Hird not proven and entitled to innocence though.


For record, I didn't even write the story all this is coming from. Deleted initial Tweets. Not CONFIRMED Hird took hex. He denies this.

[bulldogtragic]

He can't back away from this quickly enough now. :D
Someone got a phone call from Burnside QC :)

[LostDoggy]

He's even changed his name ! ;)

[bulldogtragic]

He's even changed his name ! ;)
:) good pick up!

[Greystache]

He's even changed his name ! ;)

Lol, I manually coded the quotes :o

[Mofra]

Some serious backpedalling...

[Greystache]

Some serious backpedalling...

Yep. You wouldn't want to be behind him when he slammed it into reverse!

[bulldogtragic]

Mike Sheahan: Hird standing down Thursday morning!

[SonofScray]

BOOM.

Now to have players banned and the Club deregistered for a period of time.

We can scavenge their sponsorship deals and gain some ground on the bigger clubs.

[Twodogs]

BOOM.

Now to have players banned and the Club deregistered for a period of time.



Has something been announced?


We can scavenge their sponsorship deals and gain some ground on the bigger clubs.


And their favourable Etihad deal.

[bulldogtragic]

Hang on, Mike and others stepping back, despite Foxtel and 50,000,000 tweets (many, many journos) declaring 10am tomorrow at the date and time...

Talk about getting my hopes up!

[SonofScray]

Mike Sheehan jumped the gun by the looks of it. Twitter is going haywire.

[bulldogtragic]

Essendon have only said "he will not be standing down".

Make of that what you will!!!

[Ghost Dog]

I'm not an Essendon hater. But I think once the glow of youth wears off, one might find them a little less inclined to shrug off the way the club has used them essentially ( the club, Dank, or the collective ) by being injected with all that stuff. I wonder if any of the players are considering suing the club?

[Remi Moses]

Just imagine if this was Matthew Knights....
Would have been thrown in the Maribrynong with cement tied to his legs!!

[azabob]

Just imagine if this was Matthew Knights....
Would have been thrown in the Maribrynong with cement tied to his legs!!

Yep, and instead of buring an effigy of him, they would burn the real thing.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not an Essendon hater. But I think once the glow of youth wears off...

Someone should have told Hirdy to grow old gracefully and not worry about his complexion.

[Twodogs]

Just imagine if this was Matthew Knights....
Would have been thrown in the Maribrynong with cement tied to his legs!!


Yep, and instead of buring an effigy of him, they would burn the real thing.



It would be a bit hard to burn him with him being all wet and covered in cement!

[westdog54]

It would be a bit hard to burn him with him being all wet and covered in cement!

Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Daughter of the West]

Where there's a will, there's a way.

And a lot of lighter fluid.

[azabob]

It would be a bit hard to burn him with him being all wet and covered in cement!

Anything can happen with the right science guys.... :D

[Maddog37]

This thread has suddenly taken a very dark turn.

[LostDoggy]

Anything can happen with the right science guys.... :D

Build a magnesium box. Stick him in, light it up, then toss it in the Maribyrnong.

[Twodogs]

Build a magnesium box. Stick him in, light it up, then toss it in the Maribyrnong.

They can keep THEIR rubbish out of OUR river!

[The Adelaide Connection]

The internizzle is going wild with talk of a 9am (est) announcement. Speculation abounds that the club will cop it this time round, with the players getting theirs at the end of the year.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-charges-expected-on-tuesday-20130812-2rsbk.html

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-news-blog/essendon-players-wont-get-off-scotfree/20130812-2rscy.html

[Remi Moses]

The biggest hurt for their club is going to be being banned from the draft.