MVP Awards

[bornadog]

Can G Ablett take it out for a 5th time?

See all nominations for various awards here (http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/gary-ablett-aims-for-record-fifth-afl-mvp-award/story-e6frf33l-1226715810643#.Ui62Ucbiofw)

Bulldogs up are:

MVP Player - Ryan Griffen, Tom Liberatore, Will Minson
Most Courageous - Daniel Cross
Best First year player - Brett Goodes
Best Captain - all are nominated

Under 22 squad - Jordon Roughead, Libba, Dahl,

[Topdog]

Yes he can

[Greystache]

Griffen finished 6th

LEIGH MATTHEWS TROPHY
Gary Ablett (GCS) 1479 votes
Joel Selwood (GEE) 475
Jarryd Roughead (HAW) 378
Scott Pendlebury (COL) 321
Kieren Jack (SYD) 201
Ryan Griffen (WB) 177
Daniel Hannebery (SYD) 174
Patrick Dangerfield (ADE) 172
Dane Swan (COL) 137
Nathan Fyfe (FRE) 118

AFL MOST COURAGEOUS
Joel Selwood (GEE) 234 votes
Daniel Hannebery (SYD) 153
Rory Sloane (ADE) 74
Callan Ward (GWS) 55
Kade Simpson (CAR) 54

AFL BEST CAPTAIN
Joel Selwood (GEE) 172 votes
Gary Ablett (GCS) 115
Jobe Watson (ESS) 110
Luke Hodge (HAW) 102
Travis Boak (PTA) 81

AFL BEST FIRST YEAR PLAYER
Jaeger O Meara (GCS) 533 votes
Oliver Wines (PTA) 45
Brad Crouch (ADE) 37
Sam Dwyer (COL) 28
Dane Rampe (SYD) 24

[azabob]

Griffen finished 6th

LEIGH MATTHEWS TROPHY
Gary Ablett (GCS) 1479 votes
Joel Selwood (GEE) 475
Jarryd Roughead (HAW) 378
Scott Pendlebury (COL) 321
Kieren Jack (SYD) 201
Ryan Griffen (WB) 177
Daniel Hannebery (SYD) 174
Patrick Dangerfield (ADE) 172
Dane Swan (COL) 137
Nathan Fyfe (FRE) 118



Correct me if Im wrong, but this award is voted on by players? Either way Griffen should be extremely proud of his effort this season.

[Scorlibo]

The MVP awards are a joke, players simply go on media hearsay.

[Greystache]

Correct me if Im wrong, but this award is voted on by players? Either way Griffen should be extremely proud of his effort this season.

Yep. Basically they vote 3, 2,1 on their team mates, then vote 3, 2, 1 from a list of 50 odd nominated players from outside their club. Some consider it a more accurate reflection of the true best player that year rather than the highest media profiled midfielder award the Brownlow has become.

[always right]

The MVP awards are a joke, players simply go on media hearsay.

What do you base this statement on?

[Scorlibo]

Yep. Basically they vote 3, 2,1 on their team mates, then vote 3, 2, 1 from a list of 50 odd nominated players from outside their club. Some consider it a more accurate reflection of the true best player that year rather than the highest media profiled midfielder award the Brownlow has become.

You're well off the mark here. History will tell you that the Brownlow regularly goes to players who don't receive much media attention/are not favourites (Judd 04, Bartel 07, Cooney 08). The Players MVP on the other hand can be predicted, almost without fail, by following the media discourse during the year. If Players were asked to vote at the end of each game it would carry more weight, but given they give votes to 3 players as a summary of a season they haven't seen much of, it's an absolute farce of an award. The Coaches' Award is so much more deserving of praise.

[Greystache]

You're well off the mark here. History will tell you that the Brownlow regularly goes to players who don't receive much media attention/are not favourites (Judd 04, Bartel 07, Cooney 08). The Players MVP on the other hand can be predicted, almost without fail, by following the media discourse during the year. If Players were asked to vote at the end of each game it would carry more weight, but given they give votes to 3 players as a summary of a season they haven't seen much of, it's an absolute farce of an award. The Coaches' Award is so much more deserving of praise.

Didn't Gary Ablett average the highest Supercoach rating in 2013? Surely that's definitive proof the award is spot on.

[Scorlibo]

Didn't Gary Ablett average the highest Supercoach rating in 2013? Surely that's definitive proof the award is spot on.

A sardonic approach to supercoach scores and how they relate to the topic at hand seems to be your stock standard response these days to arguments you don't have the capacity for reason to participate in. Grow up GS.

[Greystache]

A sardonic approach to supercoach scores and how they relate to the topic at hand seems to be your stock standard response these days to arguments you don't have the capacity for reason to participate in. Grow up GS.

I'm confused, I've been informed by people who assure me they know better that Supercoach is the only accurate way to measure the performance of a player. Seeing as the MVP award reflects that measure it stands to reason it must be a valid award and not a joke. If only I had the capacity to understand the concept, but alas I'm also reliably informed I don't.

[bornadog]

You're well off the mark here. History will tell you that the Brownlow regularly goes to players who don't receive much media attention/are not favourites (Judd 04, Bartel 07, Cooney 08). The Players MVP on the other hand can be predicted, almost without fail, by following the media discourse during the year. If Players were asked to vote at the end of each game it would carry more weight, but given they give votes to 3 players as a summary of a season they haven't seen much of, it's an absolute farce of an award. The Coaches' Award is so much more deserving of praise.

This year the players voted on line for the first time. It would be better if the players voted every week, but i guess logistically, the players association is not set up to do so. Maybe with the online capability now in place, they may be able to change this in the future.

[Scorlibo]

I'm confused, I've been informed by people who assure me they know better that Supercoach is the only accurate way to measure the performance of a player.

Not something I've ever said.


Seeing as the MVP award reflects that measure it stands to reason it must be a valid award and not a joke.

It reflects the media consensus. That doesn't mean it's always wrong, just that it's founded on a farcical basis. The same as copying the answer of the person next to you in a test, the answer could well be correct but the method of arriving at that answer is wrong and doesn't teach you anything.

[Scorlibo]

This year the players voted on line for the first time. It would be better if the players voted every week, but i guess logistically, the players association is not set up to do so. Maybe with the online capability now in place, they may be able to change this in the future.

To be honest I would prefer if the award didn't exist. Let the players be players, leave the discourse to the plethora of media commentators. If it has to exist, it would be better for the players to vote at the end of each match and like you say, perhaps that could be facilitated online. The thing is, and this is one of my main concerns, the players by and large probably don't care enough about who is the best player in the game. If they don't want to be voting in the first place, they sure won't want to vote every week.

[Scraggers]

Did i read somewhere that Matty Boyd won an award last night?

[bornadog]

Did i read somewhere that Matty Boyd won an award last night?

Education Award.

Libba named in the best under 22.

[Scraggers]

Education Award.

Libba named in the best under 22.

Cheers

[Ozza]

The MVP awards are a joke, players simply go on media hearsay.

Are you suggesting that Ablett is only unanimously the players MVP because of media hearsay!?

He's voted clearly the best - becuase he is clearly the best player, and was the best player this year again. I highly doubt the media would have ranked Roughead 3rd either.

[Scorlibo]

Are you suggesting that Ablett is only unanimously the players MVP because of media hearsay!?

He's voted clearly the best - becuase he is clearly the best player, and was the best player this year again. I highly doubt the media would have ranked Roughead 3rd either.

Nothing to do with Ablett taking it out, a deserving winner of any individual award this year.

Re: Roughead third, it doesn't surprise me given he's the Coleman Medal winner.

[LostDoggy]

As mentioned Matty Boyd won the education award.

He finished his MBA this year.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2013-09-11/boyd-wins-aflpa-education-award

[LostDoggy]

Not something I've ever said.



It reflects the media consensus. That doesn't mean it's always wrong, just that it's founded on a farcical basis. The same as copying the answer of the person next to you in a test, the answer could well be correct but the method of arriving at that answer is wrong and doesn't teach you anything.

You honestly believe players don't watch other games? Or that they don't pay attention to opposition players? Or that they've little judgement on teammates?

Tell him he's dreaming Darryl.

[Scorlibo]

You honestly believe players don't watch other games? Or that they don't pay attention to opposition players? Or that they've little judgement on teammates?

Tell him he's dreaming Darryl.

You seem to assume that every player is as much a footy head as everyone on this forum. They enjoy playing and they're part of the discourse of the game but for every Bob Murphy there are players like Will Minson or Brodie Grundy who have many other, more pressing interests. What I find interesting is hearing from some of the individual players who the best player they've played on was/is. The answer is nearly always something you didn't entirely expect. Bob Murphy for example, who would have played on some of the best forwards, backs and wingmen in his time says that Ryan O'Keefe is the best he's played on. That's something which interests me, not what the popular opinion of players is on who is the best in the game at the minute.

As for opposition players, I know from playing the game myself that you never pay too much attention to the opposition - your focus is on what your team is doing right or wrong, and what you're doing in the moment. As a forward I would be leading back and forth, often wrestling with my opponent or with my back to the play. Asked which opposition players were playing well I wouldn't have much of a clue unless one of their big forwards had kicked a bag. An independent observer would always follow the game more closely. I've had this same conversation about the MVP award with other friends who have played club footy and they agree that it's very difficult to get an idea of who has been the best and fairest of the league for the season simply by playing every game.

[Topdog]

Im going to guess here that you didnt have meeting upon meeting of watching video tape of your upcoming opposition. If anything the players opinion is clouded by other players and their coaches.

The players would have very little respect for the media.

[Happy Days]

You seem to assume that every player is as much a footy head as everyone on this forum. They enjoy playing and they're part of the discourse of the game but for every Bob Murphy there are players like Will Minson or Brodie Grundy who have many other, more pressing interests. What I find interesting is hearing from some of the individual players who the best player they've played on was/is. The answer is nearly always something you didn't entirely expect. Bob Murphy for example, who would have played on some of the best forwards, backs and wingmen in his time says that Ryan O'Keefe is the best he's played on. That's something which interests me, not what the popular opinion of players is on who is the best in the game at the minute.

As for opposition players, I know from playing the game myself that you never pay too much attention to the opposition - your focus is on what your team is doing right or wrong, and what you're doing in the moment. As a forward I would be leading back and forth, often wrestling with my opponent or with my back to the play. Asked which opposition players were playing well I wouldn't have much of a clue unless one of their big forwards had kicked a bag. An independent observer would always follow the game more closely. I've had this same conversation about the MVP award with other friends who have played club footy and they agree that it's very difficult to get an idea of who has been the best and fairest of the league for the season simply by playing every game.

Why did you have to shit on an award designed to recognise the best player when the best player won it? Just seems like wasted motion.

[Scorlibo]

Im going to guess here that you didnt have meeting upon meeting of watching video tape of your upcoming opposition. If anything the players opinion is clouded by other players and their coaches.

The players would have very little respect for the media.

That's true but the coaches/players won't be making the best player comparisons that the media frequently take part in. They'll review matches so that they outline the dangerous players within opposition teams but not with respect to the wider competition.

Whether they respect the media or not is irrelevant, the media create the discourse, the discourse informs the popular opinion. Just like at election time.

[Scorlibo]

Why did you have to shit on an award designed to recognise the best player when the best player won it? Just seems like wasted motion.

I used the example of getting the right result in a maths exam by peeking at someone else's work. You're correct, but you learn nothing. Results mean nothing if the process of achieving them is corrupt.

Seems like I'm rehashing some old argument here though, so I won't say any more except for... this award is nothing more than a media consensus - in my view.

[Topdog]

That's true but the coaches/players won't be making the best player comparisons that the media frequently take part in. They'll review matches so that they outline the dangerous players within opposition teams but not with respect to the wider competition.

Whether they respect the media or not is irrelevant, the media create the discourse, the discourse informs the popular opinion. Just like at election time.

I can see what you are getting at but if you can point me to something that you actually disagree with I'd be more willing to listen. For me they have got it consistently right and that is down to the coaches and video. Im sure those players that have interest outside of football dont actually read or listen to shows on football.