2014 Needs Analysis - Ready Mades vs Draftees

[bulldogtragic]

What type of players do we need for structure and game plan?
What is the urgency, that is do we go with a trade (ready made, immediate impact) of draftee (1 or 2 year plus development type leading into our real window)?

I.e:

- Do we need a second ruck for Will? He did it this year on his own, but is it fair on him? Will Ayce make it as a ruck next year (or beyond)? I personally don't see the need for a draft ruck with two kids, maybe a trade to help Will... Billy Longer? Not sure? What's our gameplan with being too top heavy next year? What's our 5 year strategy?

- Forwards. Seems likely to go after a ready made forward. Crameri is getting the headlines, but do we need a genuine tall target too? If so, a trade tall or recruit a draftee tall for 2/3 years? We have smalls in supply.

- Defenders. Perhaps another tall, either trade or draft. Not sure we need to trade for a tall back, maybe better bring in a recruit. A rebounding defender like Docherty might be a good addition, or if we keep 4 Scharenberg might still be there? If we keep 4, would you prefer Scharenberg or Docherty and a lower pick?

- Mids. Inclined to go with kids unless a great trade option becomes available.


Where are we needing or wanting immediate improvement?
Where are we looking for long term development of the list?

[mighty_west]

More class, all over the ground really but especially through the midfield, last years draftee's will develop to add extra much needed class but that will take time, Scharenberg or Kelly will also help out in that department long term.

I still see Ayce as an important player for us developing as a ruckman, he just needs to get those shoulders right, Campbell obviously the other ruck option to help Will out.

A few years ago we seemed in desperate need for a small opportunist forward, Dahl & Grant fill that need, Dickson has shown that he can also crumb the packs.

As far as our forwards go, Jones is still inconsistent but will be better having Campbell, Grant & Stringer playing alongside him, Fletcher Roberts is still developing but can play either back or forward, if we don't end up with Scharenberg in the draft perhaps looking at another young tall in the draft.

I'd also be looking at a running rebounding defender in the draft or trade, there is a young one at Brissy looking for a new home, could be worth a look at.

[Mofra]

Definately want a line-breaking mid, either via agility (Macrae style) or pace (Cooeny style). We are polish away from having really good young midfield depth IMO, and good midfielders tend to play all over the paddock anyway.

Rebounding defender is something I'd love. Docherty is young yet has had soem development put into him, the type we should look at.

High-forward/mid forward type. We seem to break down on the HF line at times, shades of 2010 in structural terms. Jones lacks the tank and may never get there. They don't have to be overly tall, just good.

If Cordy looks like he's going backwards, I'd want to add a ruckman next year. Campbell shows there are some decent around on the cheap, although most clubs have woken up to this so competition will be greater.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

We should target to peak in 3 or 4 years. Our oldest and greatest strength is Griffen and he should be still very good then. Murph will retire after holding the cup aloft. Will Minson may still be a great tap ruckman. All the other strengths we have should be peaking by then.
So that means we go with draftees as opposed to trades. That way we build from floor up with a united culture.
OK get Crameri or a ready made trade to help out with strength and experience in the forward line. He will know Maccas mantra. We don't need any other ready made but if they're the right price then get them because you have a greater assurance of what you're getting with a trade but that works both ways and they're expensive. A draftee can be much worse or much better than expected. To win a premiership we will have to have some wins from the draft. We haven't had our fair share of the draft since Traralgon was our zone, we're due. Sharenburg, Sheed, Billings or god help us a Jesse Hogan or Tom Boyd. (Has Shane Loveless had a son we can get?) Draft for a tall talented no dick head forward, speedy laser kicking mid, ball winning negating key back. That's quite possibly enough to win a premiership in 3 or four years with a lot of hard work.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We are unlikely to cover all bases in one draft, so I think we'll need to prioritize. A lot will depend on who we can potentially land from another club, be it Crameri or Docherty for example. However on a pure needs basis I'd like to see us take the best classy/skillful midfielder at pick #4. That would round out our midfield nicely.

I suspect we will finish a few places higher next season, and usually quality half backs can be found in the 8-15 range, so I am happy enough to wait another year if it means securing a classy potential A grade mid.

If we could then nab Crameri with 22, that would be a good net result, and a balance of future/now.

[LostDoggy]

I'm still not convinced on Jones so I think a tall marking forward remains the priority. I would happily trade 4 for Jaksch and 10 to try to get Marsh or McCarthy with the pick 10. That gives us two round 1 caliber forwards to develop. Would still take Crameri on top of that and then the forward line looks pretty good to me. Big turnaround for that sector in 1 draft if it pulled together and 1 of the two talls turned into a jack Reiwoldt type. I would like to see us take the punt of thorp for depth.

A true speedy in/out mid would be next preference - would love Hartung who fits that mould beautifully

A running half back would be third. If we keep 4 and take Scharenberg I'd still be very happy.

[Remi Moses]

The club will not trade pick 4.
To valuable a commodity to trade, and I've heard a few fans on BF saying we should trade it for multiple picks.

[GVGjr]

The primary focus should remain on adding draftees as far as I am concerned. I see sense in us exploring adding someone like Patton but basically I'm not that interested in genuine recycled players if we are going to need to use our first two picks to do so.

We could flip our pick 4 for something a bit later but I'm warming to the notion of keeping our picks and maybe even adding another pick along the via a player trade.

I don't understand our fascination with Crameri because the few times I have seen him he seems to be hobbling around with minor injuries. His best is good but I think he borders more on the average. I will concede I didn't see a lot of him this year and maybe I have missed something that most others here might have seen. To me 1.8M over four years just seems crazy money for a player of his ilk.

I'd rather back players like Williams and Higgins to add to the areas we lacked this year plus I think there is enormous upside in so many of our younger guys.

If we want a key forward and cant land Patton then maybe we draft McCarthy at pick four and give him time to develop.

[comrade]

If we want a key forward and cant land Patton then maybe we draft McCarthy at pick four and give him time to develop.

We've seen what happens when you reach for a key forward (Walsh, and Grant to a lesser extent) in the first round. I'd rather we go with best available as we have gaps all over the ground anyway. McCarthy isn't the 4th best player in the draft from all reports.

[Bulldog Revolution]

The primary focus should remain on adding draftees as far as I am concerned. I see sense in us exploring adding someone like Patton but basically I'm not that interested in genuine recycled players if we are going to need to use our first two picks to do so.

We could flip our pick 4 for something a bit later but I'm warming to the notion of keeping our picks and maybe even adding another pick along the via a player trade.

I don't understand our fascination with Crameri because the few times I have seen him he seems to be hobbling around with minor injuries. His best is good but I think he borders more on the average. I will concede I didn't see a lot of him this year and maybe I have missed something that most others here might have seen. To me 1.8M over four years just seems crazy money for a player of his ilk.

I'd rather back players like Williams and Higgins to add to the areas we lacked this year plus I think there is enormous upside in so many of our younger guys.

If we want a key forward and cant land Patton then maybe we draft McCarthy at pick four and give him time to develop.

I dont think we should trade pick 4. Im not convinced I would trade that for Patton coming off a knee. I think we are better to go for Crameri and the best available at 4.

Crameri is a good leading forward, not great overhead, but good, and would straighten up our attack.

Essendon seem to think the money offered is too steep or they have money tied up elsewhere (Goddard). Regardless if you want someone else's player you have to pay above the odds in terms of salary (Goddard).

Certainly our first pick should not be in the table for Crameri, and I'd prefer not our second either. Can we leverage a third pick or he goes into the pre-season draft? Would Crameri do that?

Best case scenario Crameri is allowed to leave because of the supplement scandal.

[mighty_west]

If we want a key forward and cant land Patton then maybe we draft McCarthy at pick four and give him time to develop.

In that case I like Superdogs idea of going after Jaksch for pick 4 and swap with GWS's pick 10, from the limited footage I've seen of Jaksch he is a great size, fantastic mark and sold kick for goal plus we'll grab another quality player with pick 10, so we basically gain a high quality young key forward who already has one year of development under his belt and the best available with pick 10.

[LostDoggy]

I don't understand our fascination with Crameri......To me 1.8M over four years just seems crazy money for a player of his ilk.

If we want a key forward and cant land Patton then maybe we draft McCarthy at pick four and give him time to develop.

Totally agree about the amount. I had thought we were going to get Crameri because of the the amazing relationship Macca is said to have have had with him. Now it seems we are buying him out which sets a disturbing precident for Libba, Stringer, Hunter etc as and when they May be deserving of the very big dollars. It's going to make it harder to argue they should take less than open market value because of our culture.

If Patton genuinely digs in to leave, then the blues and the saints have more to table than we do. If its the saints and they give up pick 3, then GWS will take Sharenberg rather than Kelly who the Saints are more likely to use it on. At that point, in my own draft value judgement, I think we could take nearly as good a player at 10 as we could at 4. That's why I'd happily trade it so we can draft 2 tall forwards (Jaksch and McCarthy) rather than a Gaff type in Kelly or a Hunter type in Billings who would be the best available at 4. If we believe Sharenberg will fall to 4 however, I'd keep the pick. So important we use it well this year.

So; to keep this thread to its title I'm saying one or two very good young talls either drafted or a year or so in their development should be our absolute focus. Our FF/CHF line has looked aweful both PB and AB (Pre Barry and After Barry). Sick of watching Jones run under the flight, Cordy wrestling without reward and Gia having to carry the load of a proper tall forward for half games. We need to be able to send Jones/Cordy and others to earn their spot against other quality talls from the magoos and we'll only be able too once we have some depth.

[Remi Moses]

We're paying overs for Crameri, no doubt.
But that's the market we're in.
I'd find it hard to form an opinion on any Bomber player on this season, due to the unprecedented year long saga.
I just don't see Patton being traded, as a number one pick who has played virtually no footy.
If Crameri doesn't come off, just use the draft.

[F'scary]

I don't understand our fascination with Crameri because the few times I have seen him he seems to be hobbling around with minor injuries. His best is good but I think he borders more on the average. I will concede I didn't see a lot of him this year and maybe I have missed something that most others here might have seen. To me 1.8M over four years just seems crazy money for a player of his ilk.

I'd rather back players like Williams and Higgins to add to the areas we lacked this year plus I think there is enormous upside in so many of our younger guys.

If we want a key forward and cant land Patton then maybe we draft McCarthy at pick four and give him time to develop.

I am in total agreement with these points.

Paying overs for one player can have a negative effect on other players and their contract renewals.

We seem to have built a base to move up the ladder steadily over the next two years.

If Williams can stay fit he is a great addition to the forward line as a key position tall. He's got it all when he is on the park.

Perhaps our strategy should be to draft more 18 yo's with 4 & 22 & 3rd round?

[F'scary]

Is there any chance that Scharenberg would last to pick 4?

[GVGjr]

We've seen what happens when you reach for a key forward (Walsh, and Grant to a lesser extent) in the first round. I'd rather we go with best available as we have gaps all over the ground anyway. McCarthy isn't the 4th best player in the draft from all reports.

I should have explained things a little better:
If we are keen on Patton then fine pick 4 seems OK.
If we are keen on Crameri and are OK to pay 1.8M then fine, but I wouldn't part with pick 22 for him.

Failing both of those scenarios then if we are hell bent on a KPP then lets look at McCarthy at pick 4. Like you, I'd prefer the best player available approach but McCarthy is a pretty good option.

Patton at 4 I can cop but pick 22 for Crameri is too high in my opinion.

[GVGjr]

Is there any chance that Scharenberg would last to pick 4?

Every chance

[GVGjr]

In that case I like Superdogs idea of going after Jaksch for pick 4 and swap with GWS's pick 10, from the limited footage I've seen of Jaksch he is a great size, fantastic mark and sold kick for goal plus we'll grab another quality player with pick 10, so we basically gain a high quality young key forward who already has one year of development under his belt and the best available with pick 10.

Flopping picks around is always an option but where does Jaksch really fit into our line-up?

[F'scary]

Is there any chance that Scharenberg would last to pick 4?


Every chance

He gets rave reviews. HS had him (in a July article http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft-watch-see-the-predicted-top-10-for-this-years-draft-before-the-national-championships-conclude/story-fni5f22o-1226673363353) as 2nd only to this Tom Boyd prodigy. Likened him to star #1 pick Goddard - can play anywhere at 1.90m and 89kg at 18yo. Elite disposal, etc, etc.

[F'scary]

Flopping picks around is always an option but where does Jaksch really fit into our line-up?

He seems a similar size & weight to Fletcher Roberts. I would like Roberts to be given a go before taking another chance with a skinny, young, unproven tall like Jaksch - who only played 2 games in his debut year for GWS.

[LostDoggy]

He seems a similar size & weight to Fletcher Roberts. I would like Roberts to be given a go before taking another chance with a skinny, young, unproven tall like Jaksch - who only played 2 games in his debut year for GWS.

Never judge a tall on year 1. He's got talent to burn but he'll take a few years to reach his potential. Solid, although not elite, at both ends of the ground although a better natural forward to me. Been injured this year also which has put him back a bit. Good hands, can get low for the ground ball. Lots going for him. Also played with Macrae and Hrovat at Carey and is mates with both so a good cultural fit.

Sharenburg is a gun however, and it does look every chance he'll get to 4. If he does its the best option IMO. Would love to try to do a Jaksch - Wood exchange if we keep 4.

[Ghost Dog]

Crameri: what can he give us that Tory Dickson can't?

[Remi Moses]

Gotta a better tank, better defensive pressure and will run both ways.
No disrespect to Dickson, but Crameri's a better player.

[Greystache]

Gotta a better tank, better defensive pressure and will run both ways.
No disrespect to Dickson, but Crameri's a better player.

Dickson is better in 2 of those 3 areas, Crameri has a better tank.

[bornadog]

Crameri: what can he give us that Tory Dickson can't?

Strength and muscle?

[Ghost Dog]

Strength and muscle?

In your view. The only stat that counts is goals kicked. His highest tally so far is 34 in a season - is this correct? Not what I would regard as being worth 1.8mil over 4 years.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

To be fair to Crameri, I think he does a lot of good work that doesn't necessarily result in goals. By that, I mean that he shouldn't be judged purely by goals. He's a good presence/target, rarely gets beaten one on one, and this brings other players into the game.

He would certainly help the likes of Jones in terms of taking a lesser opponent, and he'd help our smaller players. He's a predictable, strong, positive footballer.

Is he worth the price being mentioned? Not sure, maybe not, but he'd need to be compared to the other KF's in the league for a fair comparison.

[Ghost Dog]

To be fair to Crameri, I think he does a lot of good work that doesn't necessarily result in goals. By that, I mean that he shouldn't be judged purely by goals. He's a good presence/target, rarely gets beaten one on one, and this brings other players into the game.

He would certainly help the likes of Jones in terms of taking a lesser opponent, and he'd help our smaller players. He's a predictable, strong, positive footballer.

Is he worth the price being mentioned? Not sure, maybe not, but he'd need to be compared to the other KF's in the league for a fair comparison.

Not judged only on goals, but certainly a key stat for a forward. and 1.6 per game is nothing worth 1.8mil over 4 years.
To compare him to Dickson. Both average about the same tackles in a season 40 odd. ( ref, footywire ). Both are around the same age. Both average the same goals per season so far.
Crameri has a few cm on Tory but not a great deal. 183 to 190cm.

Just strikes me as a an average deal, nothing to get excited about. Can't wait till the day we get a genuine key forward.

[azabob]

If McCartney believes Crameri can add value to our club and team I am happy enough to back both of them in.

[chef]

If McCartney believes Crameri can add value to our club and team I am happy enough to back both of them in.

Yep, I'm the same. He has a better idea than us on his worth to our team.

[always right]

I'm still trying to work out why Crameri's being compared to Dickson......apart from the fact they both play forward. Completely different types of players.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm still trying to work out why Crameri's being compared to Dickson......apart from the fact they both play forward. Completely different types of players.

Maybe, but not statistically.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Yep, I'm the same. He has a better idea than us on his worth to our team.


If McCartney believes Crameri can add value to our club and team I am happy enough to back both of them in.

Macca believes both Crameri and Stringer can play in the midfield which is a growing trend in top sides to have bigger bodied players playing where it counts most.Some examples being Roughead Sewell Swan Chapman Corey Mundy and Fyfe.

[always right]

Is it possible to rate a player without quoting stats? Not sure why we have recruiting staff.....simply replace them with Supercoach analysts.

[Ghost Dog]

Is it possible to rate a player without quoting stats? Not sure why we have recruiting staff.....simply replace them with Supercoach analysts.

I think you are taking me a bit literally. I'm giving a general argument that Crameri is not worth the figure quoted. We have other talent in our list that can do the same or similar job. Or, can buy the same or similar talent for a lot less.
You want him for that figure?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think you are taking me a bit literally. I'm giving a general argument that Crameri is not worth the figure quoted. We have other talent in our list that can do the same or similar job. Or, can buy the same or similar talent for a lot less.
You want him for that figure?

KPP's are typically paid more than their 'worth'. Going further than that, most athletes are paid more than they're worth, particularly in international sports.

Getting back to Crameri, it's probably less than Dawes for example, and I know who I'd much rather. There's probably a few other examples too, but it's time to watch Carlton get hammered ;)

[always right]

I think you are taking me a bit literally. I'm giving a general argument that Crameri is not worth the figure quoted. We have other talent in our list that can do the same or similar job. Or, can buy the same or similar talent for a lot less.
You want him for that figure?

I don't disagree with you.....just don't see the point comparing two completely different players.

[Remi Moses]

In your view. The only stat that counts is goals kicked. His highest tally so far is 34 in a season - is this correct? Not what I would regard as being worth 1.8mil over 4 years.

Little bit of a simplistic view that goals are the only stat that counts.
The Coleman winner only kicks 60 odd goals!
It's defensive work, running both ways and a pretty good tank.
Talking about strength, if Crameri and Tory had an arm wrestle I'd be backing Crameri.
No doubt we're paying overs, but that's the market we're in.

[Remi Moses]

I'm still trying to work out why Crameri's being compared to Dickson......apart from the fact they both play forward. Completely different types of players.

I can't either

[ReLoad]

I'll throw it out there that I think we are better off going for a highly skilled HBF player, we have never recovered well post harrow in that area. The last few premiership teams have a real presence there, malcheski, hodge, shaw etc all bring a lot to thier team.

So instead of Crameri taking all the cash how about someone to strengthen the rebound?

[Reigning Maddogs]

There are too many question marks hanging over the Essendon players with pending ASADA infraction notices potentially meaning 2 years out of the game. Trading for Crameri is a high risk low/medium reward strategy and in my personal opinion not worth the risk.

Keep our picks 4 & 22 trading best available.

We have many forwards for next year with a good mix of crumbers, lead up and some developing KPF.

[Remi Moses]

I'll throw it out there that I think we are better off going for a highly skilled HBF player, we have never recovered well post harrow in that area. The last few premiership teams have a real presence there, malcheski, hodge, shaw etc all bring a lot to thier team.

So instead of Crameri taking all the cash how about someone to strengthen the rebound?

Hopefully that will be pick 4 Scharenberg

[F'scary]

Hopefully that will be pick 4 Scharenberg

Yes. I am getting on the Scharenberg bandwagon too. I just hope he passes Macca's good bloke test.

[GVGjr]

Yes. I am getting on the Scharenberg bandwagon too. I just hope he passes Macca's good bloke test.

That won't be a problem. Seems like a very nice youngster

[mjp]

Why the love for Scharenberg?

I am lost trying to figure out where he plays/what role he fills at AFL level. 15 years ago he is an angle cutting half back...now - I just don't know.

He is talented enough to just 'figure it out' but he is the one player out of this years supposedly top talent that I just cant picture really 'making it' at senior level.

[comrade]

Why the love for Scharenberg?

I am lost trying to figure out where he plays/what role he fills at AFL level. 15 years ago he is an angle cutting half back...now - I just don't know.

He is talented enough to just 'figure it out' but he is the one player out of this years supposedly top talent that I just cant picture really 'making it' at senior level.

MJP, thoughts on trading pick 4 for Patton?

[F'scary]

Why the love for Scharenberg?

I am lost trying to figure out where he plays/what role he fills at AFL level. 15 years ago he is an angle cutting half back...now - I just don't know.

He is talented enough to just 'figure it out' but he is the one player out of this years supposedly top talent that I just cant picture really 'making it' at senior level.

Now I am getting off the Scharenberg bandwagon.

I don't know who we should go for.

What have you guys been saying about Patton for #4 again? What is with his knee?

[GVGjr]

Why the love for Scharenberg?

I am lost trying to figure out where he plays/what role he fills at AFL level. 15 years ago he is an angle cutting half back...now - I just don't know.

He is talented enough to just 'figure it out' but he is the one player out of this years supposedly top talent that I just cant picture really 'making it' at senior level.

He's not the most defensive minded player. Good on the attack but I'm not sure how he will go in a one on one or contested situation.

[LostDoggy]

Why the love for Scharenberg?

I am lost trying to figure out where he plays/what role he fills at AFL level. 15 years ago he is an angle cutting half back...now - I just don't know.

He is talented enough to just 'figure it out' but he is the one player out of this years supposedly top talent that I just cant picture really 'making it' at senior level.

I could see him off either of the half forward or half back lines. He takes a decent grab and he reads the play well. Won't be a KPP player but think he's likely to become a quality flanking player and if we take him I'd like to see up play him as 2nd or 3rd forward. It's going to get cramped up there with Stringer, Crameri and Grant! I'd certainly prefer him over Kelly who's never had and is unlikely to get a decent inside game. I see no future for pure outside players unless they have blistering pace to run run run.

Are you suggesting we downgrade the pick for a couple of later 1st rounders, trade it completely or reach beyond the current generally accepted Sharenberg, Kelly blah blah order. I can't see us stumping us pick 4 for Garlett given last years outcome.

[stefoid]

Why the love for Scharenberg?

I am lost trying to figure out where he plays/what role he fills at AFL level. 15 years ago he is an angle cutting half back...now - I just don't know.

He is talented enough to just 'figure it out' but he is the one player out of this years supposedly top talent that I just cant picture really 'making it' at senior level.

Agreed.

What we lack the most is a damaging ball carrier ala Wingard, or a monster power forward - one of those is what we should aim for with pick 4, rather than someone whose main qualities are 'tallish' and 'versatile'.

[Mofra]

I'll throw it out there that I think we are better off going for a highly skilled HBF player, we have never recovered well post harrow in that area. The last few premiership teams have a real presence there, malcheski, hodge, shaw etc all bring a lot to thier team.

So instead of Crameri taking all the cash how about someone to strengthen the rebound?
Docherty

[Ghost Dog]

Reload, are you not satisfied with JJ as a Harbrow replacement? But I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. The need will be intensified as Bob Murphy gets on in age.

[Remi Moses]

According to Mark Stevens tonight on the 7 footy program( can't remember the name)
Crameri 's 50/50 about our offer.

[LostDoggy]

Agreed.

What we lack the most is a damaging ball carrier ala Wingard, or a monster power forward - one of those is what we should aim for with pick 4, rather than someone whose main qualities are 'tallish' and 'versatile'.

Great. Like to suggest who the wingard of this draft is 'cos I can't see it. Maybe Hartung (who I have a draft crush on) but you take best available if you are using a top 10 pick and best available, if he is there, would be Sharenberg surely?? The monster forward is gone pick one unless we find a way to get Patton. I don't get the lack of love for this guy. If "what role does he play" is our best reason not to draft him then he's pretty darn good. I look at Luke Hodge and at Goddard. Not the same game but true utilities and Sharenberg could easily end up the same.

[1eyedog]

I think you are taking me a bit literally. I'm giving a general argument that Crameri is not worth the figure quoted. We have other talent in our list that can do the same or similar job. Or, can buy the same or similar talent for a lot less.
You want him for that figure?

Yep. Under 500k is a reasonable price for what you get with him. There is no one on our list who can do the job he will do for us. No one has the size, speed, experience and tank. That's why Macca is interested.

[LostDoggy]

He's not as experienced as you'd think. He played roughly the same amount of games as Jones.

Superdog - nobody jumps to mind as a ball carrier resembling Wingard in the touted top echelon except everyone's favourite 2012 non-draftee. Mr Garlett.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

According to Mark Stevens tonight on the 7 footy program( can't remember the name)
Crameri 's 50/50 about our offer.

Apparently meeting with essendon sometime next week to make a final call. Be hard to turn our offer down i would think especially considering whats going on at essendon

[Ghost Dog]

Yep. Under 500k is a reasonable price for what you get with him. There is no one on our list who can do the job he will do for us. No one has the size, speed, experience and tank. That's why Macca is interested.

Ah well, agree to disagree then. Just because the coach wants him doesn't mean it's a watertight call. Remember Matthew Bate? Where is he now? I understand why the coach is interested, but Essendon have had a pretty good midfield and I would expect a forward to have more goals than he does.

[KT31]

Apparently meeting with essendon sometime next week to make a final call. Be hard to turn our offer down i would think especially considering whats going on at essendon

Might be letting him know they have a new shipment on the way and it's undetectable.;)
Honestly what is to think about, more money, more years, a chance to have no scrutiny over substances, a coach he respects and a club that is on their way up.
If he has to take his time to decide he doesn't seem to bright or Essendon are rolling out the brown paper bags.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Might be letting him know they have a new shipment on the way and it's undetectable.;)
Honestly what is to think about, more money, more years, a chance to have no scrutiny over substances, a coach he respects and a club that is on their way up.
If he has to take his time to decide he doesn't seem to bright or Essendon are rolling out the brown paper bags.

Thats my line of thinking too KT. I dont understand what there is to think about! They really are brainwashed over there!

[w3design]

Money-shmoney, perhaps the guy feels some sense of loyalty to his club and teammates, and just wonders if changing from what he knows to an unknown [ to him] is a tough decision to make.
It is going from a team that, AFL decision aside, would have played finals this season, to a team that has been cellar dwellers for the last two years.

Now we as Bulldog true believers might see things in an entirely different light, but it is not hard to understand a guy in his position to want to think about it, if we are being fair.

Quite frankly if the guy jumped to us at the drop of nothing more than a few extra bucks, with no doubts or second thoughts, I for one would not feel he was necessarily the kind of person we should look at recruiting. I know "loyalty" is a pretty unfashionable concept these days, but I prefer he at least considers it before coming across to us. If.

So you understand though, my position is that I am keen to get him, as he is exactly the type of forward I believe we need, rather than just another gorilla.
ASADA cr4p aside, my main concern is that we don't get sucked into paying significant overs to Essendon who are notoriously difficult to deal with, as they think their sh1t doesn't stink, and every player on their list is worth at least a P1.

[KT31]

Money-shmoney, perhaps the guy feels some sense of loyalty to his club and teammates, and just wonders if changing from what he knows to an unknown [ to him] is a tough decision to make.
It is going from a team that, AFL decision aside, would have played finals this season, to a team that has been cellar dwellers for the last two years.

Imagine he would have a sense of loyalty but in the back of his mind I imagine he realises the only person his existing has shown any loyalty is James Hird.


Now we as Bulldog true believers might see things in an entirely different light, but it is not hard to understand a guy in his position to want to think about it, if we are being fair.

Quite frankly if the guy jumped to us at the drop of nothing more than a few extra bucks, with no doubts or second thoughts, I for one would not feel he was necessarily the kind of person we should look at recruiting. I know "loyalty" is a pretty unfashionable concept these days, but I prefer he at least considers it before coming across to us. If.
.

But it is not nothing more than a few bucks, we are also offering an extra year of security, a chance to play in an untarnished side, a side that IMO ( and most) is on the up and not in a side who IMO will implode.
Most importantly we are offering him a chance to get away from a club who seem to have no morals and a very corrupt culture.

[1eyedog]

Ah well, agree to disagree then. Just because the coach wants him doesn't mean it's a watertight call. Remember Matthew Bate? Where is he now? I understand why the coach is interested, but Essendon have had a pretty good midfield and I would expect a forward to have more goals than he does.

Yeah fair enough - bearing in mind they have a number of half forwards who run through the midfield and kick goals and also have other good targets up forward in Daniher and Hurley.


He's not as experienced as you'd think. He played roughly the same amount of games as Jones.

Superdog - nobody jumps to mind as a ball carrier resembling Wingard in the touted top echelon except everyone's favourite 2012 non-draftee. Mr Garlett.

Correct, but he's been playing senior footy much longer than Jones, is far stronger and has at least three big preseasons under his belt on Jones as well.

[w3design]

Imagine he would have a sense of loyalty but in the back of his mind I imagine he realises the only person his existing has shown any loyalty is James Hird.



But it is not nothing more than a few bucks, we are also offering an extra year of security, a chance to play in an untarnished side, a side that IMO ( and most) is on the up and not in a side who IMO will implode.
Most importantly we are offering him a chance to get away from a club who seem to have no morals and a very corrupt culture.

Come on KT31, try and see things from his/their perspective for a moment at least. Their players are still being told "we did nothing wrong", with the implication it is just some kind of outside conspiracy.
That no doubt is fairy tale stuff, but most of these guys are youngsters who likely have been under the 'care' and influence of the club since they were kids.

Perhaps their trust and faith is misplaced, but surely it [ leaving] would be something they would have to think about, especially if their mates were going to see them as rats deserting the ship under attack.

I am not for one moment suggesting he should stay, but it would be a little disappointing if he just jumped without thinking about it.
Yes we are offering a better deal, but my whole point was that it should not be just about the money. And while we might be offering one extra year on an initial contract, there is nothing to suggest that if he stayed, Essendon would not give him a further contract at the conclusion of his 3 years there, especially if he continues to lead or at least rank high in their goal kicking over the next couple of seasons.

[1eyedog]

Crameri is done. He was at the Whitten Oval again today. If he isn't a Bulldog next year I will provide my member seat number and buy a beer for any Woofer who asks for one at our next home game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Crameri is done. He was at the Whitten Oval again today. If he isn't a Bulldog next year I will provide my member seat number and buy a beer for any Woofer who asks for one at our next home game.

Sauce?

In all seriousness, do you know what for, given he was only there a few days ago?

I'm excited by the prospect of getting him, think he'll be a very good pick up and compliment our set-up well. Having said that, I'd rather Patton and would be over the moon if we could land him.

One would think it's either Crameri or Patton, not both.

[jeemak]

If you look at the reverse scenario of how we as supporters felt when dealing between us losing Harbrow and Ward, versus keeping them we have every right to be confident of landing Crameri.

For me, unless Patton was truly up for grabs with pick four then I think we should be done with trading in experience. We can also forget about not using pick four on him or GWS accepting a pick swap within the first round. A prized draft pick at No. 1 doesn't turn into a pick upgrade within the first round after two years of AFL experience, injured or otherwise.

Needs:

- Ball using utility that can play forward and through the middle and across half back

- Running half back

- Excellent ball using midfielder (outstanding fitness and work ethic a requirement)

[always right]

Sauce?

In all seriousness, do you know what for, given he was only there a few days ago?

I'm excited by the prospect of getting him, think he'll be a very good pick up and compliment our set-up well. Having said that, I'd rather Patton and would be over the moon if we could land him.

One would think it's either Crameri or Patton, not both.

Why not both?...two very different players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why not both?...two very different players.

I think the club will want a top 20 pick so it's unlikely we would trade both 4 & 22 out for Patton/Crameri. To counter this, we could shop a player like Higgins or Wood, but I find it unlikely and probably not worth it (they won't net us a top 15 pick).

It would also be a very bold move to recruit two big forwards with our two early picks given we have a few other areas of concern, namely class in the midfield and half back.

Personally I would love us to target both Patton and Crameri as it would sure up our forward half for at least 5 years (with Dahl, Hunter, Hrovat, Dickson, Higgins?, Stringer, Jones, Grant). Classy HBFers are usually drafted in the 8-15 range so I am positive we could always identify one, but it's a lot harder to find a classy mid with a later pick.

I'd entertain the following:
Pick #4 and Wood for Patton and Pick 20 (or whatever they've got around this range)

[Dry Rot]

Correct, but he's been playing senior footy much longer than Jones, is far stronger and has at least three big preseasons under his belt on Jones as well.

One of those was really big under Stephen Dank.

[Remi Moses]

Crameri is done. He was at the Whitten Oval again today. If he isn't a Bulldog next year I will provide my member seat number and buy a beer for any Woofer who asks for one at our next home game.

I thought he was on holidays and arrives back next week.
Does anyone think Bellchambers signing for two years ( interesting only 2)makes any difference in Crameri coming?
My gut feel is they would have signed Bellchambers for longer if Crameri was going!
Conspiracy theories are running through my head:p

[bulldogtragic]

I thought he was on holidays and arrives back next week.
Does anyone think Bellchambers signing for two years ( interesting only 2)makes any difference in Crameri coming?
My gut feel is they would have signed Bellchambers for longer if Crameri was going!
Conspiracy theories are running through my head:p
Not sure, I reckon he's nuts if he knocks us back. There is only one WBFC member who thinks he's Roth the contract. Just happens its BMac.

[Mofra]

One of those was really big under Stephen Dank.
One old article about Crameri talks about him walking into a gym for the first time to train properly at Bendigo and benching 140kgs.
He's just naturally a beast - much like Stringer.

[Bulldog4life]

Not sure, I reckon he's nuts if he knocks us back. There is only one WBFC member who thinks he's Roth the contract. Just happens its BMac.

When you take into account Goddard got $750,000 from Essendon I'd take $450,00 for Crameri any day of the week. Players always get more if they leave Clubs otherwise few would leave. I think if we get him he will add a lot to our team.

[1eyedog]

Sauce?

In all seriousness, do you know what for, given he was only there a few days ago?

I'm excited by the prospect of getting him, think he'll be a very good pick up and compliment our set-up well. Having said that, I'd rather Patton and would be over the moon if we could land him.

One would think it's either Crameri or Patton, not both.

I have absolutely no idea. I have a work colleague who resigned and will be moving on to Darwin, he is a big Bulldogs fan (the only other one in a medium-sized business) and the company passed over some coin to get him a going away gift(s) so I went down to WO and got him one of the traditional jumpers and one of those training balls they sometime have in the basket at the desk. As I am driving in who is driving out in a Ford Territory? Stewart Crameri.

Maybe he was doing blockies in the car park?

As for the rest of your post yes I would much prefer Patton as well but wouldn't be dis-satisfied with Crameri. For more learned trade strategists is there any way whatsoever we could land them both?

[DOG GOD]

As for the rest of your post yes I would much prefer Patton as well but wouldn't be dis-satisfied with Crameri. For more learned trade strategists is there any way whatsoever we could land them both?

I guess anything is possible during trade week. Might just depend on how desperate GWS are to move Patton on. I'd say our pick 4 would definately be up there for what he's worth right now after the knee injury. Maybe throw in Wood and we "might" be able to get a 2nd rounder in return with Patton. That would be a win for us.

Crameri looks like it would take pick 22, but I'd much rather use another 2nd rounder, possibly higher, that we might be able to get for wood or possibly a Higgins/williams type player.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Crameri is done. He was at the Whitten Oval again today. If he isn't a Bulldog next year I will provide my member seat number and buy a beer for any Woofer who asks for one at our next home game.

Another leftie to add to our leftie power: Crameri, Hunter, Libba, Macrae, Smith and Howard. Turn 'em inside out doggies and shove your right hand fair in their chest to give em the don't argue! Everyone knows lefties are better kicks.

[westdog54]

I guess anything is possible during trade week. Might just depend on how desperate GWS are to move Patton on. I'd say our pick 4 would definately be up there for what he's worth right now after the knee injury. Maybe throw in Wood and we "might" be able to get a 2nd rounder in return with Patton. That would be a win for us.

Crameri looks like it would take pick 22, but I'd much rather use another 2nd rounder, possibly higher, that we might be able to get for wood or possibly a Higgins/williams type player.

Is there anything we would tempt Gold Coast with that would make them part with pick 23? They have 2 first round picks and need to cut the size of their list down to 40 this year so they may not use too many picks in this year's draft.

[LostDoggy]

I guess anything is possible during trade week. Might just depend on how desperate GWS are to move Patton on. I'd say our pick 4 would definately be up there for what he's worth right now after the knee injury. Maybe throw in Wood and we "might" be able to get a 2nd rounder in return with Patton. That would be a win for us.

If those deals got done and we could get the GWS round 2 pick and grab a quick mid (Hartung or similar should be available) we'd likely be in a fantastic position. The backline would still need work in coming years but Pearce, Jong, Roberts and Redpath are all being developed down back to various extents so there is at least a talent pool hopefully coming up behind. Depends how the club rates them all I guess.

[LostDoggy]

Is there anything we would tempt Gold Coast with that would make them part with pick 23? They have 2 first round picks and need to cut the size of their list down to 40 this year so they may not use too many picks in this year's draft.

They've expressed interest in an experienced back flanker so Wood is probably still best suited for this trade as well. They'd likely want steak knives though and I don't think a 4th rounder would interest them as they need experience not late draft picks. You'd think Yarren would be their most likely target.