Crameri

[Twodogs]

There is. It was used by Burgoyne.to get from Port to Hawthorn.

[Scorlibo]

There is. It was used by Burgoyne.to get from Port to Hawthorn.

When I think of any mediation procedure, I think of someone who's going to come in and essentially split the difference between what Essendon want and what we want to give them - ie. pick 22 and a swap of later picks. I'm not sure if that's necessary.

[ledge]

And the mediator comes in and says bombers your dreaming and for that you get nothing.

[bulldogtragic]

Mediator got Robbie Warnock to Carlton after Freo caved in on their first round demand at the last second.

[Happy Days]

Isn't there a mediation procedure for cases where the player wants to leave but the clubs can't come to an agreement?

Give up 2 first round picks?

[LostDoggy]

Agree TCD. We offer pick 22 with a deadline and then we withdraw the offer and get on with things and take our chances of getting Crameri in the PSD if they can't agree to it.

I like this approach. “You can sit there as smug as you like. We're not going to dictate terms to you. But we're not taking your shit either. Here's our offer, take it or leave it, we'll be just fine. Good luck with ASADA, by the way…”

[always right]

Dreaming if you think this will get to the PSD. It just isn't the coach's style. He'll get this done in the trade period.

[Hotdog60]

Dreaming if you think this will get to the PSD. It just isn't the coach's style. He'll get this done in the trade period.

Does the coach have that sort of input, I would have thought the list manager would be making all the calls.

[Topdog]

Certainly should be the list manager and I remember BMAC saying that he wouldn't get involved in this type of stuff.

[ledge]

Seems Thompson has now admitted Crameri wants to go to us and will look at how to deal with it

[chef]

Seems Thompson has now admitted Crameri wants to go to us and will look at how to deal with it

What did he say?

[KT31]

Seems Thompson has now admitted Crameri wants to go to us and will look at how to deal with it

Responsible decision, where did you hear this Ledge ?

[ledge]

There must have been a statement somewhere as I just read a comment on fb saying glad to see Thompson finally saw that Crameri wants to come to us.

[always right]

Certainly should be the list manager and I remember BMAC saying that he wouldn't get involved in this type of stuff.

Whatever it takes.

[The Underdog]

There must have been a statement somewhere as I just read a comment on fb saying glad to see Thompson finally saw that Crameri wants to come to us.

He also said they would fight for what they viewed as a fair outcome for them. Don't think it changes much to be honest.

[LostDoggy]

He also said they would fight for what they viewed as a fair outcome for them. Don't think it changes much to be honest.

Maybe we go down the path like "Moneyball", instead of offering pick22 and we fill their drink machine, maybe pick 22 and we agree to empty their hazardous sharps container.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

His manager is about to speak on trade radio. should be interesting...

[LostDoggy]

Said there's been interest from other clubs but Stu only wants to play for the Dogs.

[bulldogtragic]

Thinks he will be at the dogs next year!

[LostDoggy]

Thinks he will be at the dogs next year!

Sounded very confident.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Great news, what else did he say? A deal expected soon, PSD an option?

[Scorlibo]

His manager is about to speak on trade radio. should be interesting...

Has he already come and gone?

[LostDoggy]

Great news, what else did he say? A deal expected soon, PSD an option?

Said the two clubs were holding firm but expected a deal to be done (most likely at the last minute). Also mentioned that a few other clubs had expressed their interest to Essendon but Stu is only interested in playing for the Dogs. No chance to remain a Bomber. Sounds pretty good from our point of view!

[whythelongface]

Said the two clubs were holding firm but expected a deal to be done (most likely at the last minute). Also mentioned that a few other clubs had expressed their interest to Essendon but Stu is only interested in playing for the Dogs. No chance to remain a Bomber. Sounds pretty good from our point of view!

Thanks for the update Cricho. Sounds very promising. Love the fact that he only wants to play for our beloved team.

[LostDoggy]

Thanks for the update Cricho. Sounds very promising. Love the fact that he only wants to play for our beloved team.

And he will walk to the PSD if a trade to the Dogs can't be facilitated.

[Greystache]

And he will walk to the PSD if a trade to the Dogs can't be facilitated.

He's handling the situation from his end perfectly. Well done.

[1eyedog]

And he will walk to the PSD if a trade to the Dogs can't be facilitated.

Excellent.

[whythelongface]

Excellent.


Yep give the scum nothing; zilcho; knicks.

[chef]

SuperFooty (AFL) ‏@superfooty
32m

Connors confident Crameri will land at the Bulldogs... will go to the pre-season draft unless Dons-Dogs can finalise a deal.

[comrade]

Onya Crammers!

[KT31]

SuperFooty (AFL) ‏@superfooty
32m

Connors confident Crameri will land at the Bulldogs... will go to the pre-season draft unless Dons-Dogs can finalise a deal.

Great news.
Pretty confident we will pick him up, so do we just give them a ultimatum and deadline and move on to the next task ?

[chef]

Connors on TR - on Cram
"I would have thought we will have it sorted on the last day of trade (Friday week)".....
"Pick 22 has been offered, Jmac and Dodoro have been in many talks back and fourth"...
"Cram will go into the draft if need be, he won't got back to the club".
.

[JohnGentStand]

Last minute....pfft. Tossers. Maye at the last minute we trade 22 for Docherty and get Crameri in the PSD. 1 x egg 1 x face = beautiful result.
It's like a rejuvinating therapy for rekindling my anti-bombre sentiments. Tossers.

[Twodogs]

Last minute....pfft. Tossers. Maye at the last minute we trade 22 for Docherty and get Crameri in the PSD. 1 x egg 1 x face = beautiful result.
It's like a rejuvinating therapy for rekindling my anti-bombre sentiments. Tossers.


I started disliking them earnestly again when Hird took over. The smugness was breathtaking, it was oozing out of every oriface of their club.

I fully expect a fluff piece soon featuring Bomber and his childhood teddy called Stuart Crameri.

[Ghost Dog]

Hang up the phone Brendan. Don't waste your breath. Get him in the PSD. Idiots. 22 is overs.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Fantastic, Crameri wants to play for the Dogs only. He seems like a really good character having come through as a rookie, working hard. BMac and he are close, he will straighten us up, add strength, can kick goals, can teach the young ones and take pressure off them and he's not a dickhead, 190cm and can run. That has to make a serious difference.
Withdraw the offer of 22, we owe the Bombers nothing, they're playing hard ball like they always have with us, why give it when we can get him in the PSD and we need desperately to recruit to compete with the likes of the expansion clubs and their preferential treatment in years of drafts, the big 4, cheats and otherwise, Sydney, Franklin and Tippet megadollar beneficiaries. Don't give 22 to the Bombers, they'll only spend it on drugs.

[1eyedog]

Yep give the scum nothing; zilcho; knicks.

I just hope we've taken 22 off the table and put forward the option of 38 or PSD.

[Remi Moses]

I just hope we've taken 22 off the table and put forward the option of 38 or PSD.

Agree , when you try and conduct a fair and reasonable outcome and you're treated with contempt (like you should no your place)we should not accept being treated poorly

[LostDoggy]

I can't see GWS or Saints taking him. Paul Roos I can't see taking someone he knows wants to be at another club. But who knows. Maybe talk to the 3 clubs off the record.

[KT31]

I can't see GWS or Saints taking him. Paul Roos I can't see taking someone he knows wants to be at another club. But who knows. Maybe talk to the 3 clubs off the record.

Roo's will have to take someone and imagine not to many players would want to end up at the Dee's.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure Melbourne could afford him? They've got $1.0mill tied up into Clark already don't they? Ask Stu to march into the PSD with a large enough number attached to year 1 and we'd surely be exceedingly confident he gets through. The closer it gets to a possiblity the more I've thought it through. GWS have shown good faith with their players so unlikely to change colours for Crameri and he doesn't fit the Saints recruitment model they are showing at the moment or they would've kept McEvoy. I'd be very confident in the PSD model but not ideal to put Stu through that if it can be avoided.

[ledge]

We should let him go in the PSD and look at getting other players with 22 bugger them, don't they realise we aren't going to hang on to 22 until the last day and have to quickly take someone if they say no?
Let them watch us use our picks in other trades and realise they get what we have left or nothing.

[The Coon Dog]

I don't subscribe to the 'Withdraw our offer & let him walk into the PSD' view being espoused. The PSD is drought with danger; quite simply 3 clubs have picks before we do & whilst we don't think they will pounce, you just don't know & that type of scenario is not in our interests or Stewarts.

He's clearly conveyed his desire to play for us, we owe it to him to do a deal, take uncertainty out of the question & have him training with us at the earliest possible opportunity.

Essendon have no interest whatsoever in Crameri leaving via the PSD, therefore what we're currently seeing is a game of brinksmanship. I personally think pick 22 (slightly downgraded due to free agency compensation) is about right given the contract off we've put to him.

Walking away from a trade in the hopes he'll get to us via the PSD may, on the surface appear to be a nice way of saying 'up yours' to Essendon, but not good business practice in my view.

[G-Mo77]

Agree with that TCD. As much as I'd like to get him for free I don't want to risk losing a player who genuinely wants to play here to another club in the PSD. Leave our 2nd round pick on the table for the entire period, if they don't take it then PSD is our only option.

[KT31]

I don't subscribe to the 'Withdraw our offer & let him walk into the PSD' view being espoused. The PSD is drought with danger; quite simply 3 clubs have picks before we do & whilst we don't think they will pounce, you just don't know & that type of scenario is not in our interests or Stewarts.

He's clearly conveyed his desire to play for us, we owe it to him to do a deal, take uncertainty out of the question & have him training with us at the earliest possible opportunity.

Essendon have no interest whatsoever in Crameri leaving via the PSD, therefore what we're currently seeing is a game of brinksmanship. I personally think pick 22 (slightly downgraded due to free agency compensation) is about right given the contract off we've put to him.

Walking away from a trade in the hopes he'll get to us via the PSD may, on the surface appear to be a nice way of saying 'up yours' to Essendon, but not good business practice in my view.

Well said TCD.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Agree with that TCD. As much as I'd like to get him for free I don't want to risk losing a player who genuinely wants to play here to another club in the PSD. Leave our 2nd round pick on the table for the entire period, if they don't take it then PSD is our only option.

Except that leaving pick 22 on the table til the last minute clearly limits our options to other possible trades should essendon decline to take it and leaves us exposed to the PSD.
The offer is fair and given Crameri has said he does not want to go anywhere else, its not like they can do a better deal elsewhere.
I think we should put a time limit on it and put the ball in their court.
If they don't respond in time we use 22 as an option for Docherty. Say Grant & swap of 2nd second rounds with Brisbane as an example.

[A Ford]

I disagree somewhat. It's so important that our club doesn't bow the essendon's demands. If pick 22 and pick 22 alone doesn't get it done then maybe Crameri ain't worth it.
If he is still there at pick 4 in the psd then take him.

[chef]

I'm happy for us to just leave the pick on the table and Essendon take it with a minute to go, there's no rush this deal and it will get done.

[G-Mo77]

Except that leaving pick 22 on the table til the last minute clearly limits our options to other possible trades should essendon decline to take it and leaves us exposed to the PSD.
The offer is fair and given Crameri has said he does not want to go anywhere else, its not like they can do a better deal elsewhere.
I think we should put a time limit on it and put the ball in their court.
If they don't respond in time we use 22 as an option for Docherty. Say Grant & swap of 2nd second rounds with Brisbane as an example.

Fair point. My point of view comes from Docherty going to Carlton and not us so 22 can sit there. But yeah if 22 can be used elsewhere then we should explore it and not wait for the scum to come to the table.

[LostDoggy]

I'm happy for us to just leave the pick on the table and Essendon take it with a minute to go, there's no rush this deal and it will get done.

Yep me to and if Essendon want to cut their nose off then better for us, either way we will still get him.

I'm confident we will put 22 to good use in the draft.

[Remi Moses]

I understand the logic of not risking the PSD, but usually clubs can read the situation of who will be available in the PSD.
Players fall through the cracks at trade time as a rule.

[GVGjr]

Agree with that TCD. As much as I'd like to get him for free I don't want to risk losing a player who genuinely wants to play here to another club in the PSD. Leave our 2nd round pick on the table for the entire period, if they don't take it then PSD is our only option.

The only problem by leaving the offer on the table until the last minute is that it reduces your chances to improve the list. I believe setting a realistic deadline is the responsible thing to do. We may not be able to land Crameri at the National Draft.

I've said it all along that I'm happy give them pick 22 and get the deal done now but if they are that set they want more then we can't keep everything else on hold for them. I'd set the deadline at the end of 22/10.

We can then look at something else because we then can't be sure we can get Crameri. It's imperative that we don't blink with this deal.

[1eyedog]

I don't subscribe to the 'Withdraw our offer & let him walk into the PSD' view being espoused. The PSD is drought with danger; quite simply 3 clubs have picks before we do & whilst we don't think they will pounce, you just don't know & that type of scenario is not in our interests or Stewarts.

He's clearly conveyed his desire to play for us, we owe it to him to do a deal, take uncertainty out of the question & have him training with us at the earliest possible opportunity.

Essendon have no interest whatsoever in Crameri leaving via the PSD, therefore what we're currently seeing is a game of brinksmanship. I personally think pick 22 (slightly downgraded due to free agency compensation) is about right given the contract off we've put to him.

Walking away from a trade in the hopes he'll get to us via the PSD may, on the surface appear to be a nice way of saying 'up yours' to Essendon, but not good business practice in my view.

I realise it is best practice for us as a club to lead by example and conduct our business ethically and without prejudice but I'm now almost at the stage where I would risk Crameri in the PSD to make an example of Essendon and their ridiculously defiant stance on the Crameri trade. Which is probably against my better judgement.

I still like the idea of downgrading to 38 and saying this or nothing. They won't accept this but Pick 22 (or thereabouts) can be put to good use for us in this draft, Hrovat is a good example of that.

[LongWait]

I realise it is best practice for us as a club to lead by example and conduct our business ethically and without prejudice but I'm now almost at the stage where I would risk Crameri in the PSD to make an example of Essendon and their ridiculously defiant stance on the Crameri trade. Which is probably against my better judgement.

I still like the idea of downgrading to 38 and saying this or nothing. They won't accept this but Pick 22 (or thereabouts) can be put to good use for us in this draft, Hrovat is a good example of that.

Deep down I'm pretty sure we all agree with your sentiments, but I'm afraid that TCD nailed it.

We need to be seen to be doing the right thing by Crameri. We can't convince a young guy to take the huge step of abandoning his club, only for us in turn to abandon him to the vagaries of the PSD. There are three extremely undesirable destinations that have a PSD selection before ours remember.

Now that Bomber Thompson has been appointed coach we will see a much more pragmatic approach from EFC. I expect that a trade will be concluded next week, for Essendon need to improve their position and bargaining power at the trade table and at the draft. They will want a deal to be done in time for them to use pick 22.

[LostDoggy]

How does the psd work with player contracts? Can other clubs offer him less and still get him with an earlier pick ?

[bulldogtragic]

How does the psd work with player contracts? Can other clubs offer him less and still get him with an earlier pick ?
Nope, Stu names his price.

[LostDoggy]

Nope, Stu names his price.

So say Demons nominate him, but can't match it, how does it work? Or does he name his price before the psd begins?

[jeemak]

I don't really care about whether we bow to EFC, or whether our supporters think we need to save face.

We should have a plan for the entire trade period that includes EFC not taking our offer of pick 22 (or its downgraded value) and a contingency for its use in the trade period or the draft to work around it.

There's absolutely no reason why we can't have players available to trade out to improve our 3rd round pick to make it more attractive for the Crameri trade, nor is there any reason to not have other players in mind that will improve our list in ways picking up Crameri won't.

I'd be extremely disappointed if the club left the fruits that could potentially be born from the trade period untapped as a result of holding out on the Crameri deal.

If we end up trading into the later first round with a swap of players or draft picks and that secures Crameri, then fine. There's no point in being proud when you've a list to manage. Just get it done at a price you've determined as palatable and move on.

[Remi Moses]

I hope we get a more pragmatic approach from Thompson than we've had from dodoro.
We've been treated with disdain to be honest and the whole we're not negotiating attitude reeks of petulance
My bet is the trade will get done

[jeemak]

I hope we get a more pragmatic approach from Thompson than we've had from dodoro.
We've been treated with disdain to be honest and the whole we're not negotiating attitude reeks of petulance
My bet is the trade will get done

Let's think about the Lake deal, and our willingness to trade him or not.

Which approach, if we decided on the latter would have been a realistic one to take? Ask for more, or say we're not trading Lake out otherwise, or flatly refuse to trade him?

Remember, in the instance of Lake and the instance of Crameri it's clear the club needed to move him out (though we did have a final year of a contract to bargain with).

What I'm getting at is it doesn't really matter which stance a club takes to try and get the best deal for itself. The end will most likely be the same anyway.

We just need to hold tight, not worry about EFC and stick to our strategy.

[Remi Moses]

I agree with you Jeemak, and I'd say the whole concept is you want a win win situation.
Unfortunately one party wants a little to much of the trading cake.

[LongWait]

I agree with you Jeemak, and I'd say the whole concept is you want a win win situation.
Unfortunately one party wants a little to much of the trading cake.

Thompson will change the Essendon win-lose mentality to trading quick smart I think. Given all of the supportive noises from Connors, I'd bet that EFC will agree to accept our offer next week and, if not, we will withdraw our offer with Connor's and Crameri's blessing - particularly if we have another trade target where pick 22 would be useful.

Crameri won't want to chance the PSD but our willingness to be decent and to do the right thing is not limitless. It's next week or never IMHO.

[jeemak]

I agree with you Jeemak, and I'd say the whole concept is you want a win win situation.
Unfortunately one party wants a little to much of the trading cake.


Thompson will change the Essendon win-lose mentality to trading quick smart I think. Given all of the supportive noises from Connors, I'd bet that EFC will agree to accept our offer next week and, if not, we will withdraw our offer with Connor's and Crameri's blessing - particularly if we have another trade target where pick 22 would be useful.

Crameri won't want to chance the PSD but our willingness to be decent and to do the right thing is not limitless. It's next week or never IMHO.

Remi - How else would you expect them to react? Their club has been under siege (full Steven Seagal, pony tail an' all) and they need to try and hold on to any semblance of unity they can.

LW - I expect you're right. Irrespective of Bomber's influence the EFC's attitude kind of makes me think of the US Republican Party's attitude towards raising the debt ceiling. It goes against their grain, but if they don't play ball their grain's rouging up will be the least of their concerns.

[bulldogtragic]

So say Demons nominate him, but can't match it, how does it work? Or does he name his price before the psd begins?
He named his terms before. Ie, he demands $600,000 per year. Whoever selects him has to pay it.

[Remi Moses]

That aside from a trading perspective it's a fair deal.
Under Siege( Sad thing is I've seen that monstrosity)
More wooden than the thunderbirds Steven Segal

[jeemak]

That aside from a trading perspective it's a fair deal.
Under Siege( Sad thing is I've seen that monstrosity)
More wooden than the thunderbirds Steven Segal

I never have seen it, but it's still clearly affected me enough to make me use it as a metaphor in a discussion about trading Australian Rules footballers.

Terrible.

[Remi Moses]

I never have seen it, but it's still clearly affected me enough to make me use it as a metaphor in a discussion about trading Australian Rules footballers.

Terrible.

I'm sure if Segal was a Bomber he'd be a " required actor"
Not for trade:D

[jeemak]

I'm sure if Segal was a Bomber he'd be a " required actor"
Not for trade:D

Remi, off the floor with a smash and a bang! hahaha

[Ghost Dog]

I never have seen it, but it's still clearly affected me enough to make me use it as a metaphor in a discussion about trading Australian Rules footballers.

Terrible.

The part where that lady jumps out of the cake makes the torture worthwhile....:D

[Topdog]

Why do people think Bomber will make a difference? Essendon have been pricks to deal with for 10 years. Hird's only been there for 2 or 3.

[GVGjr]

Why do people think Bomber will make a difference? Essendon have been pricks to deal with for 10 years. Hird's only been there for 2 or 3.

He won't make a huge difference but I could see him stepping in late in proceedings and demanding that commonsense prevails.

[ledge]

Ok I'm over all the speculation lets get some results coming out , 3 weeks seems like a whole season at this rate !

[JohnGentStand]

The trade period was extended to 3 weeks because Essendon couldnt get their paperwork in on time. So we take it out to 3 weeks and they still only pull out a pen in the final 5 minutes ?? Tossers.
Imagine if Essendon did a deal early and then had 2 weeks to use pick 22 to good effect....oh the possibilities!

[BornInDroopSt'54]

He named his terms before. Ie, he demands $600,000 per year. Whoever selects him has to pay it.

-There must be ways we can better guarantee Crameri is recruited by us in the PSD. There would be time for him to change his expectation of wage. Front loading of his contract to allow for this etc. There must be strategies for making him less attractive to GWS, Melb and Saints. There will be a risk and risks aren't attractive to a corporate paradigm "but who dares wins" is a universal principle and in a conflict is very powerful and often decisive.
As far as I'm concerned, this is the team and the era of the Bulldogs that must win a flag. The Western Bullldogs must win a premiership within seven years or never.
We must take this fantastic opportunity to recruit and build this team to win a premiership. Chances must be taken. The club and Stuart Crameri must be prepared to suffer the discomfort of sitting through the PSD to enable pick 22 to be used to gain a significant player and missing piece of the premiership plan.

[The Underdog]

Why do people think Bomber will make a difference? Essendon have been pricks to deal with for 10 years. Hird's only been there for 2 or 3.

Agree, it's still basically the same crew doing hostage negotiations that have been there in the past.

[Remi Moses]

The part where that lady jumps out of the cake makes the torture worthwhile....:D

The highlight without a doubt.

[LongWait]

Why do people think Bomber will make a difference? Essendon have been pricks to deal with for 10 years. Hird's only been there for 2 or 3.

Thompson has publicly stated that Essendon deservedly have a really poor reputation as a club to trade with and that's gotta change. He also all but conceded late in the week that Crameri is gone.

[Sedat]

Are Thompson and BMac even good mates now? Their association ended a few years ago. I'm not expecting the Crameri negotiations to be any smoother now that Thompson has been appointed senior coach.

Listening to Paul Connors on Friday, he was quite candid about the PSD being a real possibility for Crameri and he didn't seem at all phased by it. We've made a sensible offer that is in the ballpark of Crameri's value - it is up to Essendon to accept it or not. As GVG has mentioned we should put an end date on the offer so that we can move onto other priorities for the remainder of trade week. We have other holes on our list that need addressing, and can't be bullied by Essendon into waiting around for them to accept our offer.

[Greystache]

Are Thompson and BMac even good mates now? Their association ended a few years ago. I'm not expecting the Crameri negotiations to be any smoother now that Thompson has been appointed senior coach.

They were on AFL360 together during the season and looked to be very close friends. It was mentioned that BMac still speaks to Thompson from time to time about footy. They've only been separated for 2 years.

Whether that will make any difference to negotiations who knows. I get the impression that Hird still controls every aspect of that club and what he says goes.

[chef]

Are Thompson and BMac even good mates now?.

They were on one of the footy shows together this year(360 I think) and there was a lot of love and respect between the two. Seems that everyone who has had contact with Macca have enormous respect for him.

Edit. To quick GS.

[LostDoggy]

The part where that lady jumps out of the cake makes the torture worthwhile....:D

Elena Eleniak? Pretty sure it was her. The sequel is even worse.

Back to Crameri, are Essendon worried that it'll start a run of other players walking out? Or are they simply saying amongst themselves, “He's gone, but let's do our best to make the Doggies pay, whether that's higher picks/players/etc or merely affecting he remainder of our trade period.

[LostDoggy]

Elena Eleniak? Pretty sure it was her. The sequel is even worse.

Back to Crameri, are Essendon worried that it'll start a run of other players walking out? Or are they simply saying amongst themselves, “He's gone, but let's do our best to make the Doggies pay, whether that's higher picks/players/etc or merely affecting he remainder of our trade period.

I think they're trying to pressure us into giving more than we want (ie. more than Pick 22) so we can wrap up the deal and move forward in the trade period. Essendon will accept Pick 22 at the last minute if it's still on the table, but I'd love to see us give them an expiry date on the offer (ie. end of this coming week). Crameri will be a Western Bulldogs player next season, and while I think it's important to have a reputation as a fair club to deal with, we need to be firm here. Simply waiting out Essendon could mean we miss out on a Docherty for example.

[Mofra]

Back to Crameri, are Essendon worried that it'll start a run of other players walking out?
Most of their players are signed for next year, although Gumby is "open to offers" and Jetta is a "required player" but is terrible.

[Twodogs]

Are Thompson and BMac even good mates now? Their association ended a few years ago. I'm not expecting the Crameri negotiations to be any smoother now that Thompson has been appointed senior coach.

Listening to Paul Connors on Friday, he was quite candid about the PSD being a real possibility for Crameri and he didn't seem at all phased by it. We've made a sensible offer that is in the ballpark of Crameri's value - it is up to Essendon to accept it or not. As GVG has mentioned we should put an end date on the offer so that we can move onto other priorities for the remainder of trade week. We have other holes on our list that need addressing, and can't be bullied by Essendon into waiting around for them to accept our offer.

I would think so. Winning premierships tends to bond people together.

[LostDoggy]

They were on one of the footy shows together this year(360 I think) and there was a lot of love and respect between the two. Seems that everyone who has had contact with Macca have enormous respect for him.

Edit. To quick GS.

One of the first things Thompson mentioned on that show was that the bulldogs were looking to poach essendon's forwards. It was light hearted but still very much indicated that they both have their own affairs to be concerned with. I'm sure there's a lot of respect but won't stop either from getting the best deal they can for their respective teams

[ratsmac]

Up the anti - Pick 4, 22 and Higgins for Crammers and Carlisle. :D

[KT31]

They were on AFL360 together during the season and looked to be very close friends. It was mentioned that BMac still speaks to Thompson from time to time about footy. They've only been separated for 2 years.

Whether that will make any difference to negotiations who knows. I get the impression that Hird still controls every aspect of that club and what he says goes.

Don't care if they are best mates or don't get along, Crameri has asked to leave the Essendon FC and come to the Dogs, we want him and the right thing by both is to make it happen and not go to the PSD.

[GetDimmaBack]

I think they're trying to pressure us into giving more than we want (ie. more than Pick 22) so we can wrap up the deal and move forward in the trade period. Essendon will accept Pick 22 at the last minute if it's still on the table, but I'd love to see us give them an expiry date on the offer (ie. end of this coming week). Crameri will be a Western Bulldogs player next season, and while I think it's important to have a reputation as a fair club to deal with, we need to be firm here. Simply waiting out Essendon could mean we miss out on a Docherty for example.

Being firm with Essendon will earn us more respect with the other clubs than we had already.

No-one likes to deal with them - the other clubs will be supportive of our standing firm on this one.

[Mofra]

Being firm with Essendon will earn us more respect with the other clubs than we had already.

No-one likes to deal with them - the other clubs will be supportive of our standing firm on this one.
Wandered onto a couple of team boards on a certain football related website - opposition supporters share our sentiments towards Essendon at the trade table (Essendon in general, really).

[KT31]

Hoping this deal will be done early this week so we can just move on and deal with other issues.

[Happy Days]

I know that the club wants to be fair and seen as a good trading partner and generic statement number 3, but now is the time to pull the offer and back Crameri to get to the PSD.

Here are the facts of the situation;

- we have done our due process in attempting to trade and party B have proven to be outright ridiculous in their value assessment of their assets

- Crameri is ours and ours alone; his manager has specifically stated he wants to play for us, we have a financial offer tabled that is higher than most other clubs will be willing to pay, and those selecting before us in the PSD either do not need him or will be selecting someone else

- Another player we want is set to be traded for an offer we can easily trump (albeit with sentiment removed) if we pull the pick from this trade and put it forward elsewhere

- Crameri is not so super awesome that we get 3rd degree burnt in the unlikely event that we get usurped

At the very least, Docherty for 22 needs to be explored.

[chef]

I know that the club wants to be fair and seen as a good trading partner and generic statement number 3, but now is the time to pull the offer and back Crameri to get to the PSD.

Here are the facts of the situation;

- we have done our due process in attempting to trade and party B have proven to be outright ridiculous in their value assessment of their assets

- Crameri is ours and ours alone; his manager has specifically stated he wants to play for us, we have a financial offer tabled that is higher than most other clubs will be willing to pay, and those selecting before us in the PSD either do not need him or will be selecting someone else

- Another player we want is set to be traded for an offer we can easily trump (albeit with sentiment removed) if we pull the pick from this trade and put it forward elsewhere

- Crameri is not so super awesome that we get 3rd degree burnt in the unlikely event that we get usurped

At the very least, Docherty for 22 needs to be explored.

Docherty wants to be a Blue.

[Happy Days]

Docherty wants to be a Blue.

Doesn't mean due diligence can't be done does it?

At any rate, if we had the choice between Crameri or Crameri & pick 22 I know what I'd pick.

[Mofra]

Doesn't mean due diligence can't be done does it?
You assume we haven't already done so?

[LostDoggy]

Docherty wants to be a Blue.

From what I've read he's nominated Carlton as his preferred destination but the main goal is a return to Victoria.

[Happy Days]

You assume we haven't already done so?

Only reports I've seen are of a player swap, nothing about draft picks or specifically 22.

Not saying we haven't, but the reporting reads as if there is a set course for 22.

[Twodogs]

Just saw Crameri having a coffee at the Pound.

[Bulldog4life]

Just saw Crameri having a coffee at the Pound.

Sounds promising.

[LostDoggy]

Just saw Crameri having a coffee at the Pound.

I can't take it anymore! I think I might wet myself when he signs!

[Twodogs]

And now he is running laps of the oval.

[Greystache]

And now he is running laps of the oval.

Lol. You can't help but be impressed with how he's gone about the move. He's either been very well advised, is very mature and level headed, or both.

[Cyberdoggie]

And now he is running laps of the oval.

Only thing left is for him to be wearing a bulldogs polo!

[whythelongface]

Lol. You can't help but be impressed with how he's gone about the move. He's either been very well advised, is very mature and level headed, or both.

Yep agree. He has been very impressive just getting on with his business despite all the speculation. He just wants to get away from the BS at Essendon and play football with a team that plays within the rules and who have a very promising future.

Now if Essendon would only play their part in all of this.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Great stuff TD

Crameri will be done on Essendons time frame

Macca and Thompson should be able to resolve

Docherty Blues supporter as a kid

[Remi Moses]

And now he is running laps of the oval.

With Jon Patton ?

[chef]

Doesn't mean due diligence can't be done does it?

At any rate, if we had the choice between Crameri or Crameri & pick 22 I know what I'd pick.

Im sure it was, but IMO pick 22 has always been earmarked for Crameri in the knowledge that Essendon will eventually take it and Macca wanting him joining in preseason training ASAP.

My understanding is as soon as Docherty found out Carlton was interested he only had eyes for them.

[Twodogs]

Only thing left is for him to be wearing a bulldogs polo!


He could pick one up fairly cheap in he Bulldog Shop.:D

[craigsahibee]

And now he is running laps of the oval.

What's in the coffee at The Pound Cafe? :)

You can just imagine the conversation with Bomber and Dedoro.

Look guys, it's not you it's the coffee. No, it's mainly you but the coffee at The Pound is sensational.

[Greystache]

What's in the coffee at The Pound Cafe? :)

You can just imagine the conversation with Bomber and Dedoro.

Look guys, it's not you it's the coffee. No, it's mainly you but the coffee at The Pound is sensational.

And upon hearing this James Hird will set up a sub-committee of recently paroled fitness trainers to investigate coffee beans from Mexico in the view to setting up an espresso injecting program.

[craigsahibee]

Hird might enlist that Australian Modern Pentathlete Alex Watson.

He was the one disqualified from the '88 games due to excessive caffeine levels in his system. From memory his levels were equivalent to something like drinking 30 espresso's on the morning of competition.

Back to the thread...... How many laps did Stewie do? (as opposed to Stewie Dew where the answer would be not many)

[Throughandthrough]

Just saw Crameri having a coffee at the Pound.

Skim milk ?

[BRG1993]

And now he is running laps of the oval.

Photo?

[comrade]

And now he is running laps of the oval.

Legit?

[1eyedog]

From what I've read he's nominated Carlton as his preferred destination but the main goal is a return to Victoria.

Nope, he specifically told the Lions he wanted to be traded to Carlton.

[Cyberdoggie]

Docherty Blues supporter as a kid

I knew there was something wrong with him!,
I suddenly dislike him and now think Jarrad Grant is a much better footballer. :p

[Remi Moses]

Nope, he specifically told the Lions he wanted to be traded to Carlton.

I think he 's preference was Carlton, but I think more along the lines of returning to Victoria.
He's spoken to a few clubs , so I guess that implies it's not Carlton or bust

[GVGjr]

From what I've read he's nominated Carlton as his preferred destination but the main goal is a return to Victoria.

Unless Brisbane are prepared to hold their ground on getting the best offer (and I don't believe they are) then it's as good as a done deal that he will be with the Blues.

He has received poor advice from his manager because we are a way superior place for him to come to.

If we are determined to move Grant on then we might get a pick from Brisbane

[w3design]

If we are determined to move Grant on then we might get a pick from Brisbane

What do you think we'll get? My opinion is his currency is not that high and I'd hold onto him.

[Twodogs]

Skim milk ?

Dunno. Presumably.


Photo?

He was looking very furtive. I don't think walking up and snapping a photo would have been the politic thing to do.



Legit?


Yep. I went for a walk to the ground around 11.30.

[LostDoggy]

Crameri was having coffee then running laps? You guys are having a lend......

[GVGjr]

What do you think we'll get? My opinion is his currency is not that high and I'd hold onto him.

That's why I said if we (the club) are determined to move him on. I'm happy to keep him

[always right]

This trade period is the most tedious part of the season...but I'll forgive the AFL if we get everything we want.

[1eyedog]

I think he 's eference was Carlton, but I think more along the lines of returning to Vict
He's spoken to a few clubs , so I guess that implies it's not Carlton or bust

Herald Sun article last week stating he asked Brisbane to be traded to the Blues, seems pretty clear. I inserted a link to the article last week, not sure which thread.

[LostDoggy]

Connors on TR - on Cram
"I would have thought we will have it sorted on the last day of trade (Friday week)".....
"Pick 22 has been offered, Jmac and Dodoro have been in many talks back and fourth"...
"Cram will go into the draft if need be, he won't got back to the club".
.
Typical arrogant Pependon! No draft picks in the first two rounds,can't believe anyone would want to leave them,and they always expect other clubs to pay overs for their players!!Maybe we Just take 22 off the table and let them get screwed with CRAMMERS going into the draft and getting to us for nothing! HEH HEH!

[Remi Moses]

Wonder what their haggling about .
Heard Carlton are offering pick 29! Surely they're not arguing one draft position

[The Doctor]

Wonder what their haggling about .
Heard Carlton are offering pick 29! Surely they're not arguing one draft position

would be idiotic if they are, almost Essendon like.

pick 28 is a steal. i'd happily trade 22 for him and we now know they would take it.

[w3design]

That's why I said if we (the club) are determined to move him on. I'm happy to keep him


No worries.

As to Crameri, Dogs should take the offer off the table at the end of the week.

PSD all the way.

[Bulldog Revolution]

He has received poor advice from his manager because we are a way superior place for him to come to.



Docherty would seem to be a perfect Scotland replacement though for the Blues

I understand he was a CFC supporter as a kid also

[Ozza]

No worries.

As to Crameri, Dogs should take the offer off the table at the end of the week.

PSD all the way.

Although I'd love to see us end up getting Crameri through the PSD, I don't think we need to start any fires. Just stick with exactly what we've offered - and if they don't take it in the trade period - then they miss out. But at least we can say we will have played it with integrity and it won't jeopardise getting him to the club.

Playing hardball might see Essendon working feverishly to try and get Crameri to another club (however unlikely).

[w3design]

Although I'd love to see us end up getting Crameri through the PSD, I don't think we need to start any fires. Just stick with exactly what we've offered - and if they don't take it in the trade period - then they miss out. But at least we can say we will have played it with integrity and it won't jeopardise getting him to the club.

Playing hardball might see Essendon working feverishly to try and get Crameri to another club (however unlikely).



Essendon working feverishly, they'd need a better offer than what the Dogs have provided. Crameri would also have to agree to that other clubs deal. Don't see it happening, if the Dogs have other plans for pick 22 as a contingency all Essendon are doing is holding them up

[KT31]

Although I'd love to see us end up getting Crameri through the PSD, I don't think we need to start any fires. Just stick with exactly what we've offered - and if they don't take it in the trade period - then they miss out. But at least we can say we will have played it with integrity and it won't jeopardise getting him to the club.

Playing hardball might see Essendon working feverishly to try and get Crameri to another club (however unlikely).

Very unlikely he will end up anywhere but with us.
Already made himself at home coffee and seen doing laps of the Whitten Oval.

[LostDoggy]

This trade period is the most tedious part of the season...but I'll forgive the AFL if we get everything we want.

So, so, soooo tedious. Should go back to doing it all inside a week.

Poor media having to write story after story about coach movements to keep their editors happy. Must be munching a bucket load of souvalaki's down as they've got nothing else to do!

[Happy Days]

Essendon working feverishly, they'd need a better offer than what the Dogs have provided. Crameri would also have to agree to that other clubs deal. Don't see it happening, if the Dogs have other plans for pick 22 as a contingency all Essendon are doing is holding them up

This guy gets it

[GVGjr]

Essendon working feverishly, they'd need a better offer than what the Dogs have provided. Crameri would also have to agree to that other clubs deal. Don't see it happening, if the Dogs have other plans for pick 22 as a contingency all Essendon are doing is holding them up

We need to set a deadline and I would make that at 2pm next Tuesday otherwise we explore other options for pick 22 and take our chances in the PSD of landing Crameri.

[Go_Dogs]

We need to set a deadline and I would make that at 2pm next Tuesday otherwise we explore other options for pick 22 and take our chances in the PSD of landing Crameri.

Spot on. They'll have had sufficient time and we need to be able to look at other options. I think it's a fair and reasonable approach and I'm sure we'd be discussin the course of action with Stewart's manager too.

[Ghost Dog]

Essendon working feverishly, they'd need a better offer than what the Dogs have provided. Crameri would also have to agree to that other clubs deal. Don't see it happening, if the Dogs have other plans for pick 22 as a contingency all Essendon are doing is holding them up

Are we playing hardball? I mean really. Fair enough for Essendon trying to do the best thing by their club, but for a bloke who has kicks around 30 goals average in a season, pick 22 is right and they know it.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

There have been suggestions in the last twenty four hours that a deal could involve Pick 22 along with a swap of third or fourth rounders.

I would be bitterly disappointed if this was the case.

[GVGjr]

There have been suggestions in the last twenty four hours that a deal could involve Pick 22 along with a swap of third or fourth rounders.

I would be bitterly disappointed if this was the case.

I could probably live with that but would prefer to hold our ground,

[LostDoggy]

There have been suggestions in the last twenty four hours that a deal could involve Pick 22 along with a swap of third or fourth rounders.

I would be bitterly disappointed if this was the case.

Time to quit being nice ! It's pick 22 by Friday morning arseholes, or its used on another trade for a kid/draft.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I could probably live with that but would prefer to hold our ground,

A swap of fourth rounders probably makes little difference, but I think we need to hold our stance for reasons above and beyond simply having the 'earlier' pick.

Firstly, I don't want us to have the perception as a club that buckles in negotiations. The Lake/Hawthorn deal caused some angst for similar reasons. We should stick to what we think is fair and reasonable (Pick 22) and not do Essendon favours by rewarding them.

Secondly, Essendon need to learn to co-operate amicably like all other clubs in the league. If clubs continually bemoan their negotiation skills, but still keep bending over in deals for them, it'll never change.

[The Doctor]

I could probably live with that but would prefer to hold our ground,

I'd be furious if we gave way to these mongrels.

Then all clubs will bully us and make trading like hell for us knowing we will bend over eventually.

We have them right where we want them, why should we compromise? Make a stand here Dogs. Don't be nice. Put us first.

[ledge]

A swap of fourth rounders probably makes little difference, but I think we need to hold our stance for reasons above and beyond simply having the 'earlier' pick.

Firstly, I don't want us to have the perception as a club that buckles in negotiations. The Lake/Hawthorn deal caused some angst for similar reasons. We should stick to what we think is fair and reasonable (Pick 22) and not do Essendon favours by rewarding them.

Secondly, Essendon need to learn to co-operate amicably like all other clubs in the league. If clubs continually bemoan their negotiation skills, but still keep bending over in deals for them, it'll never change.

We won the lake deal don't be mistaken, the only angst was he was a lot of supporters favourite but we seriously won that deal and no matter what lake done or does in his final two years, playing with us would not have benefitted us or him at all , it was a win / win situation.

[LostDoggy]

A swap of fourth rounders probably makes little difference, but I think we need to hold our stance for reasons above and beyond simply having the 'earlier' pick.

Firstly, I don't want us to have the perception as a club that buckles in negotiations. The Lake/Hawthorn deal caused some angst for similar reasons. We should stick to what we think is fair and reasonable (Pick 22) and not do Essendon favours by rewarding them.

Secondly, Essendon need to learn to co-operate amicably like all other clubs in the league. If clubs continually bemoan their negotiation skills, but still keep bending over in deals for them, it'll never change.

Could not agree with you more,TBB

[jeemak]

A swap of fourth rounders probably makes little difference, but I think we need to hold our stance for reasons above and beyond simply having the 'earlier' pick.

Firstly, I don't want us to have the perception as a club that buckles in negotiations. The Lake/Hawthorn deal caused some angst for similar reasons. We should stick to what we think is fair and reasonable (Pick 22) and not do Essendon favours by rewarding them.

Secondly, Essendon need to learn to co-operate amicably like all other clubs in the league. If clubs continually bemoan their negotiation skills, but still keep bending over in deals for them, it'll never change.

Did this angst filter through the club, or was it just the supporters that felt it? I can't recall anyone from the club recollecting being screwed in that deal.

I've been saying it all trade period. We should have gone into these negotiations with a plan and contingencies for that plan.

I really hope that plan, apart from not being completely unreasonable had nothing to do with with worrying about how EFC are perceived after each trade period. We already know what they're like to deal with, as do all other clubs. Things will work themselves out in the long run, as they clearly have already started to do on the basis they've completed plenty less trades than all other clubs over the past five or so years.

We can't over reach, I agree. But missing out on landing Crameri on the basis of teaching EFC a trading lesson would be completely counter productive.

[LostDoggy]

We won the lake deal don't be mistaken, the only angst was he was a lot of supporters favourite but we seriously won that deal and no matter what lake done or does in his final two years, playing with us would not have benefitted us or him at all , it was a win / win situation.

Lake deal was definetley win win for both.He would have walked from us to Hawks ,with the club getting stiffed.Memo BOMBRES-DEADLINE-12pm Friday-Crammers deal done or you can kiss your first and only draft pick selection bye bye!

[bornadog]

We won the lake deal don't be mistaken, the only angst was he was a lot of supporters favourite but we seriously won that deal and no matter what lake done or does in his final two years, playing with us would not have benefitted us or him at all , it was a win / win situation.

We have won nothing but potential. Lets see how the kid develops before we say we won

[LostDoggy]

Same as the draft, only way of knowing who 'won' is with hindsight. That being said, I think Hrovat and Stevens will be very good players with us for a long time so it will end up being one of the few genuine win-win trades.

Anywho, Crameri will have filled his locker and been kitted up by the time this trade's done!

[chef]

There have been suggestions in the last twenty four hours that a deal could involve Pick 22 along with a swap of third or fourth rounders.

I would be bitterly disappointed if this was the case.

Wouldn't bother me, picks at that time will be speculative if this really is a shallow draft.
Plus we might not even use the fourth rounder.

Pick 22 is a steal for Crameri in all honesty.

[GVGjr]

My thoughts are that if we got a pick for Grant from Brisbane then maybe we would consider Picks 22 and 28 for Crameri and pick 33 (Gumbleton pick)

I'd prefer to keep Grant and try our luck with just pick 22

[LostDoggy]

We won the lake deal don't be mistaken, the only angst was he was a lot of supporters favourite but we seriously won that deal and no matter what lake done or does in his final two years, playing with us would not have benefitted us or him at all , it was a win / win situation.

Absolutely kidding yourself - "we seriously won that deal?" - patently absurd IMO. Hrovat and Stephens are looking like great gets but trading a 2 X AA KPP for a 6 pick upgrade and late third round pick is as much fun as kicking yourself in the nuts continuously 9/10 times and will get you the same outcome :eek:

We look like we'll come out well but that's smart use of the upgrade we got and the pick we got not smart negotiation on Lake. The negotiation was an absolute barry crocker and the entire AFL community was well aware we got got rolled. We have to do better with the Crameri deal or we are going to continue to get squeezed when the pressure is on. We hold the cards: we have to raise not fold.

#Makeastanddogs

[ledge]

Absolutely kidding yourself - "we seriously won that deal?" - patently absurd IMO. Hrovat and Stephens are looking like great gets but trading a 2 X AA KPP for a 6 pick upgrade and late third round pick is as much fun as kicking yourself in the nuts continuously 9/10 times and will get you the same outcome :eek:

We look like we'll come out well but that's smart use of the upgrade we got and the pick we got not smart negotiation on Lake. The negotiation was an absolute barry crocker and the entire AFL community was well aware we got got rolled. We have to do better with the Crameri deal or we are going to continue to get squeezed when the pressure is on. We hold the cards: we have to raise not fold.

#Makeastanddogs

He was gone for nothing this year if we didn't trade, so we got a win with just a trade for him, and getting Hrovat and Stevens was a massive bonus, please tell
Me the advantage of keeping Lake who had one year left with us.

[Happy Days]

My thoughts are that if we got a pick for Grant from Brisbane then maybe we would consider Picks 22 and 28 for Crameri and pick 33 (Gumbleton pick)

I'd prefer to keep Grant and try our luck with just pick 22

Man why is this Grant nonsense still existing?

Grant for Docherty at least made sense but why trade him out to downgrade our second pick by 11 places in a shallow draft when we don't have to? Why is this happening? WHY??

[chef]

Absolutely kidding yourself - "we seriously won that deal?" - patently absurd IMO. Hrovat and Stephens are looking like great gets but trading a 2 X AA KPP for a 6 pick upgrade and late third round pick is as much fun as kicking yourself in the nuts continuously 9/10 times and will get you the same outcome :eek:

We look like we'll come out well but that's smart use of the upgrade we got and the pick we got not smart negotiation on Lake. The negotiation was an absolute barry crocker and the entire AFL community was well aware we got got rolled. We have to do better with the Crameri deal or we are going to continue to get squeezed when the pressure is on. We hold the cards: we have to raise not fold.

#Makeastanddogs

I disagree, I thought we did well out of the trade too. 2 decent kids for an ageing superstar who wouldnt be a part of our next challenge is probably as good as it could get.

Imagine the whining on here if he had of stayed the extra year and left for nothing ad a FA.

[LostDoggy]

He was gone for nothing this year if we didn't trade, so we got a win with just a trade for him, and getting Hrovat and Stevens was a massive bonus, please tell
Me the advantage of keeping Lake who had one year left with us.

No advantage in hanging onto him. Had we held out through the trade period I believe the Hawks would've done their first pick. I just think saying we came out ahead is stretching history somewhat. He was the 1st and most logical decision for the Hawks who were on the cusp of a flag and desperately needed a quality FB. Late 1st rounder to fill out their premiership team on the cusp? No brainer and we should've known that. Plus he wins the norm smith.

History says we got bent. Then we picked well in the draft and moneyballed well so we came out satisfactorily.

[always right]

Do we really have to go over the Lake trade all over again? Let's concentrate on the Crameri deal shall we?

Personally I'd like to see us hold firm on our current offer but if the club think they need to throw in some inconsequential swapping of later draft picks...meh. I'm not sure this board can withstand the wait if we take this to the PSD. People are going to have nervous breakdowns trying to anticipate whether clubs ahead of us are going to gazump us.

[chef]

History says we got bent.

But it doesnt.

It says we did a deal that was great for all 3 parties involved.

Why would we want to be like Essendon at trade time.

[The Underdog]

At this point i hope we trade pick 4 for Crameri just for the entertainment of 6 months of outrage posting, plus dragging over it every trade period forever.

[LostDoggy]

But it doesnt.

It says we did a deal that was great for all 3 parties involved.

Why would we want to be like Essendon at trade time.

Well we sure as hell didn't "win" it.

I'll go with Always Right though - happy to move back to Crameri. If we need to exchange 5th rounders I could live with it so we can get this done. Would hate to lose Grant to satisfy the bombers and don't see the need to do so.

[whythelongface]

Man why is this Grant nonsense still existing?

Grant for Docherty at least made sense but why trade him out to downgrade our second pick by 11 places in a shallow draft when we don't have to? Why is this happening? WHY??


Apart from speculation on here or BF is there any source (media or club) that has mentioned that we would downgrade our 2nd pick?

Think we need to take a deep breath and wait for things to actually be confirmed before we start hyperventilating.

[chef]

Well we sure as hell didn't "win" it.

I'll go with Always Right though - happy to move back to Crameri. If we need to exchange 5th rounders I could live with it so we can get this done. Would hate to lose Grant to satisfy the bombers and don't see the need to do so.

I would hope we didnt go into trade week trying to 'win it', rather just trying to do what's best for our club and its players.

Essendon seem to try and win it every year, yet everyone tries to steer clear of them for some reason.

[Ghost Dog]

Has anyone here actually met Stew before?

[Scorlibo]

There is no sense in adding in a swap of picks to the deal. We don't have to budge one inch - if Essendon don't agree to a deal, they get nothing. Stubborn as they may be, they'll agree to something over nothing!

[Happy Days]

Apart from speculation on here or BF is there any source (media or club) that has mentioned that we would downgrade our 2nd pick?

Think we need to take a deep breath and wait for things to actually be confirmed before we start hyperventilating.

The two journos running the HS trade chat reporting rumours of Grant for 28/29, suggestions of flipping that pick to Essendon aren't a long bow to draw.

At any rate it's a backwards move.

[stefoid]

Well we sure as hell didn't "win" it.

I'll go with Always Right though - happy to move back to Crameri. If we need to exchange 5th rounders I could live with it so we can get this done. Would hate to lose Grant to satisfy the bombers and don't see the need to do so.

They took a 30yo with a heavily back ended contract off our hands. There was quite a bit of risk for them. In retrospect, I think we were driving the trade and we couldnt have pushed much harder.

Could be talking through my hat, but I get the same sort of sniff from the talk about Grant - we might be behind a similar deal for similar reasons.

[mighty_west]

There is no sense in adding in a swap of picks to the deal. We don't have to budge one inch - if Essendon don't agree to a deal, they get nothing. Stubborn as they may be, they'll agree to something over nothing!

So you think GWS, Melbourne and Saints will all pass up on a quality forward then?

[Scorlibo]

So you think GWS, Melbourne and Saints will all pass up on a quality forward then?

A quality forward who doesn't want to play for them and who comes at a hefty price.

But that shouldn't even weigh into the equation. All we need to do is wait out Essendon because they have so much more to lose by Crameri going to the PSD than we do.

[The Underdog]

I would hope we didnt go into trade week trying to 'win it', rather just trying to do what's best for our club and its players.

Essendon seem to try and win it every year, yet everyone tries to steer clear of them for some reason.

This might be the most sensible post in this whole thread. Thanks Chef.

[craigsahibee]

So you think GWS, Melbourne and Saints will all pass up on a quality forward then?

If Melbourne land Vince on reportedly $450k per year I can't see them being able to pay Crameri the same whilst they have large salary committments to Clarke & Dawes (who incidentally are almost as funny as the Clarke & Dawe's on the ABC). Add the likes of Jesse Hogan, Jake Spencer, Jack Watts and there's not a lot of space in their forward line to fit Crameri, so to answer part of your question, yes Melbourne will pass on Crameri.

GWS. Assuming they take Boyd with pick 1, their forward line could consist of Cameron, Tomlinson, Patton and Boyd. Again, not sure where Stu will fit in to that set-up.

St Kilda could potentially take Stu from under our nose if they free up some dollars by releasing either Dal Santo or Montagna (or both) but I can't see them paying $450k for a medium sized forward when they are in deep financial poo.

If it gets to the PSD these clubs will no doubt do their due diligence and speak to Stu and his Manager. The message that needs to be put to these clubs by Stu is that he only wants to play for the Bulldogs. This should be enough to deter them from selecting him in the PSD.

[Greystache]

Absolutely kidding yourself - "we seriously won that deal?" - patently absurd IMO. Hrovat and Stephens are looking like great gets but trading a 2 X AA KPP for a 6 pick upgrade and late third round pick is as much fun as kicking yourself in the nuts continuously 9/10 times and will get you the same outcome :eek:

We look like we'll come out well but that's smart use of the upgrade we got and the pick we got not smart negotiation on Lake. The negotiation was an absolute barry crocker and the entire AFL community was well aware we got got rolled. We have to do better with the Crameri deal or we are going to continue to get squeezed when the pressure is on. We hold the cards: we have to raise not fold.

#Makeastanddogs

That didn't happen.

We traded Hawthorn's 1st and 2nd round pick for Lake and our 2nd round pick. Their picks were late due to making the GF, ours was early due to finishing 15th, that's why their first round pick wasn't much earlier than the second round pick we traded. A third round pick was never involved


No advantage in hanging onto him. Had we held out through the trade period I believe the Hawks would've done their first pick. I just think saying we came out ahead is stretching history somewhat. He was the 1st and most logical decision for the Hawks who were on the cusp of a flag and desperately needed a quality FB. Late 1st rounder to fill out their premiership team on the cusp? No brainer and we should've known that. Plus he wins the norm smith.

History says we got bent. Then we picked well in the draft and moneyballed well so we came out satisfactorily.

They did.

We got Hawthorn's first round pick, we got their first and second round pick in fact. They had nothing more to give, the only thing we could have held out for was not trading our second pick back in return, which was never going to happen because Hawthorn weren't going to accept their first live selection being in the late 3rd round.

[jeemak]

I love the Lake trade. It just keeps on giving!

[bornadog]

I love the Lake trade. It just keeps on giving!

Once Hrovat becomes a good player then I will say we won.

In the meantime, Grants last 6 weeks were better than Crameri's - why in the hell would we want to let him go.

[1eyedog]

Wouldn't bother me, picks at that time will be speculative if this really is a shallow draft.
Plus we might not even use the fourth rounder.

Pick 22 is a steal for Crameri in all honesty.

Agreed he is a quality player worth a pick in the mid teens.

[anfo27]

That didn't happen.

We traded Hawthorn's 1st and 2nd round pick for Lake and our 2nd round pick. Their picks were late due to making the GF, ours was early due to finishing 15th, that's why their first round pick wasn't much earlier than the second round pick we traded. A third round pick was never involved



They did.

We got Hawthorn's first round pick, we got their first and second round pick in fact. They had nothing more to give, the only thing we could have held out for was not trading our second pick back in return, which was never going to happen because Hawthorn weren't going to accept their first live selection being in the late 3rd round.

I'm a little confused here so can somebody please help me out? Hawthorn got Lake & pick 27 & we got picks 21 & 41 but North Melbourne ended up with pick 41. We traded pick 44 for Stevens so what the hell happened to this pick 41?

[1eyedog]

Do we really have to go over the Lake trade all over again? Let's concentrate on the Crameri deal shall we?

Personally I'd like to see us hold firm on our current offer but if the club think they need to throw in some inconsequential swapping of later draft picks...meh. I'm not sure this board can withstand the wait if we take this to the PSD. People are going to have nervous breakdowns trying to anticipate whether clubs ahead of us are going to gazump us.

We must wait. The delay is already getting to some on this board and that is exactly what Essendon wants. We are already coming up with downgrades and bundles and it looks like we are scrambling to give Essendon something we don't need to.

Pick 22 is on the table and should stay on the table until early next week. If Essendon do not respond we use it elsewhere and take our chance with Crameri.

I want this club to not get intimidated by Essendon before I want Crameri.

[Go_Dogs]

The two journos running the HS trade chat reporting rumours of Grant for 28/29, suggestions of flipping that pick to Essendon aren't a long bow to draw.

At any rate it's a backwards move.

If we did that and we're able to keep 22 and get Crameri would that be an acceptable deal?

Perhaps it's also to assist us in negotiations with Essendon that we will pull pick 22 Friday and offer up pick 28 Monday when the Grant deal gets done?

I'm not convinced about trading Grant because he did finish the year well but I'm not yet convinced he's a proven consistent commodity either. We'll have to wait a while longer before any of it becomes clear but there is nothing wrong with testing the waters.

[Greystache]

I'm a little confused here so can somebody please help me out? Hawthorn got Lake & pick 27 & we got picks 21 & 41 but North Melbourne ended up with pick 41. We traded pick 44 for Stevens so what the hell happened to this pick 41?

It was pick #41 at the time of doing the deal, but additional compensation picks pushed it down to #44 in the end.

[Twodogs]

Sorry guys I accidentally closed the thread. I'm blaming my IPad-it obviously wasn't my fault!

[azabob]

Sorry guys I accidentally closed the thread. I'm blaming my IPad-it obviously wasn't my fault!

I thought it was because we didn't want BulldogTragic to be right in predicting this thread will get to a 1000 posts before the deal is completed! :D

[Topdog]

They did.

We got Hawthorn's first round pick, we got their first and second round pick in fact. They had nothing more to give, the only thing we could have held out for was not trading our second pick back in return, which was never going to happen because Hawthorn weren't going to accept their first live selection being in the late 3rd round.

They could have given just their first and no swap of 2nds.

[Happy Days]

If we did that and we're able to keep 22 and get Crameri would that be an acceptable deal?


Nope.

The only way I'm sold on Crameri is as a part of something greater. If we lose Grant then I feel his value to the side is diminished. I noted earlier that I don't really see much in Crameri that isn't already there in Dickson except bigger arms and tighter hamstrings (and admittedly more ability overhead). I think ideally with the current personnel plus Stewart we are looking to build towards a more physical, diverse and taller (read: McCartneyised) version of our '09 forward line, something which would work better with both players rather than just one.

Plus I think our position of dominance is really being undersold here. We hold all the cards, and should be making the demands. I honestly think we would be wise to let him walk to the PSD and take our chances.

[Mofra]

I don't really see much in Crameri that isn't already there in Dickson except bigger arms and tighter hamstrings (and admittedly more ability overhead). I think ideally with the current personnel plus Stewart we are looking to build towards a more physical, diverse and taller (read: McCartneyised) version of our '09 forward line, something which would work better with both players rather than just one.
I see them as quite different footballers - Crameri is bigger, stronger, faster and as you've noted better overhead.
He also seems to play a little higher up the ground than Tory, which I see as a positive - there were a number of times where we had a tall "get-out" option on the boundary line covered well by opposition defenders, which meant the best we could do was force a stoppage on our HFF.

Another genuine leading marking option helps our ball movement considerably and I think Crameri can play a good role for us.

[azabob]

He also seems to play a little higher up the ground than Tory, which I see as a positive - there were a number of times where we had a tall "get-out" option on the boundary line covered well by opposition defenders, which meant the best we could do was force a stoppage on our HFF.

Another genuine leading marking option helps our ball movement considerably and I think Crameri can play a good role for us.

Ala Murphy when he played the lead up role. I think we have really lacked this type of player since Murphy went back into defense.

[Remi Moses]

Total nonsense. A win for both clubs .
Can we please clarify that Brian was 30 when traded and WAS an all Australian.
Would of walked anyway where the club would of got SFA for an All Australian.
The rage on here would have been palpable

[Remi Moses]

Ala Murphy when he played the lead up role. I think we have really lacked this type of player since Murphy went back into defense.

Agree, and if Murphy was 5 or 6 years younger we wouldn't bother with Crameri.

[craigsahibee]

Agree, and if Murphy was 5 or 6 years younger we wouldn't bother with Crameri.

Bob is ageless.

[stefoid]

Total nonsense. A win for both clubs .
Can we please clarify that Brian was 30 when traded and WAS an all Australian.
Would of walked anyway where the club would of got SFA for an All Australian.
The rage on here would have been palpable

If Dal Santo goes and the saints get a free agency pick, it will be some indication of what we might have got for Lake had he walked this year.

[1eyedog]

Agree, and if Murphy was 5 or 6 years younger we wouldn't bother with Crameri.

Not sure about this. Bob 5 years ago and Crameri now are pretty different players. Bob was all class and as stated a true lead up forward whereas Crameri is a bull who runs in straight lines, but also is the master of doubling back to take advantage of space behind the contest. He is often at an advantage in this scenrio given his pace and strength.

Crameri does not lead as much as people here are suggesting in my opinion and tends to test his opponent more one on one, Bob never had the size to do this.

Crameri is much closer to what Stringer will become than Bob.

[Mofra]

Crameri is much closer to what Stringer will become than Bob.
5 Brownlows and the Nobel Peace Prize?

Cool :cool:

[Remi Moses]

Not sure about this. Bob 5 years ago and Crameri now are pretty different players. Bob was all class and as stated a true lead up forward whereas Crameri is a bull who runs in straight lines, but also is the master of doubling back to take advantage of space behind the contest. He is often at an advantage in this scenrio given his pace and strength.

Crameri does not lead as much as people here are suggesting in my opinion and tends to test his opponent more one on one, Bob never had the size to do this.

Crameri is much closer to what Stringer will become than Bob.

Comparing in the need of a lead up
Role, not comparing them as players.

[always right]

Nope.

The only way I'm sold on Crameri is as a part of something greater. If we lose Grant then I feel his value to the side is diminished. I noted earlier that I don't really see much in Crameri that isn't already there in Dickson except bigger arms and tighter hamstrings (and admittedly more ability overhead). I think ideally with the current personnel plus Stewart we are looking to build towards a more physical, diverse and taller (read: McCartneyised) version of our '09 forward line, something which would work better with both players rather than just one.

Plus I think our position of dominance is really being undersold here. We hold all the cards, and should be making the demands. I honestly think we would be wise to let him walk to the PSD and take our chances.

The only thing Crameri and Dickson have in common is that they both play forward.

[Twodogs]

I thought it was because we didn't want BulldogTragic to be right in predicting this thread will get to a 1000 posts before the deal is completed! :D



Well, his new Douggy avatar does make me do a double take every time I see it.

[Happy Days]

The only thing Crameri and Dickson have in common is that they both play forward.

Care to expand on that?

Both guys get most of their goals being hit up, neither guy provides tremendous defensive pressure, Crameri as noted is bigger and probably has the bigger tank but Dickson is a far better kick for goal.

(This isn't me having a go btw, I want to hear your thoughts)

[always right]

Care to expand on that?

Both guys get most of their goals being hit up, neither guy provides tremendous defensive pressure, Crameri as noted is bigger and probably has the bigger tank but Dickson is a far better kick for goal.

(This isn't me having a go btw, I want to hear your thoughts)

One is a taller target, a left footer, booming kick, with pace, and reasonable overhead.
The other is medium height, a right footer, an accurate kick within 30m but an average field kick, a hard worker but with limited pace and not strong overhead.

[bulldogtragic]

Well, his new Douggy avatar does make me do a double take every time I see it.
I have a new avatar?

[Mofra]

Care to expand on that?

Both guys get most of their goals being hit up, neither guy provides tremendous defensive pressure, Crameri as noted is bigger and probably has the bigger tank but Dickson is a far better kick for goal.

Disagree on the hit up avenue to goal - Dickson does far more crumbing, plays closer to goal, doesn't out muscle opponents and relies on smarts more than athleticism to manage shots on goal.

Strongly disagree on the defensive pressure shortcomings of Dickson - he sits 11th on our list for average tackles. 2 blokes above him are delisted, and none above him are full time forwards save for Dahlhaus who plays higher & runs through the midfield at times. He had 3 more than Gia from 7 less games and they play similar roles.

[1eyedog]

Comparing in the need of a lead up
Role, not comparing them as players.

Gotcha...belatedly.:)

[F'scary]

Disagree on the hit up avenue to goal - Dickson does far more crumbing, plays closer to goal, doesn't out muscle opponents and relies on smarts more than athleticism to manage shots on goal.

Strongly disagree on the defensive pressure shortcomings of Dickson - he sits 11th on our list for average tackles. 2 blokes above him are delisted, and none above him are full time forwards save for Dahlhaus who plays higher & runs through the midfield at times. He had 3 more than Gia from 7 less games and they play similar roles.

And let's remember, we are talking about Mr 6-goals-in-a-game Dickson.

[jeemak]

Disagree on the hit up avenue to goal - Dickson does far more crumbing, plays closer to goal, doesn't out muscle opponents and relies on smarts more than athleticism to manage shots on goal.

Strongly disagree on the defensive pressure shortcomings of Dickson - he sits 11th on our list for average tackles. 2 blokes above him are delisted, and none above him are full time forwards save for Dahlhaus who plays higher & runs through the midfield at times. He had 3 more than Gia from 7 less games and they play similar roles.

Dickson's first two games for the club were deplorable from a defensive pressure and tackling perspective, but he's more than accounted for himself in those areas since coming back from his first spell early to mid 2012.

For a guy that seriously lacked the required fitness for AFL at the start of his first year, and after his injury interruption in his second year in AFL he's certainly made an impact both ways. I'm really looking forward to him peaking as a footballer in the next year or two, hopefully injury free.

He's nothing like Crameri, or any other player we have on our list right now. That's why he fits. Any comparisons with Gia if not already irrelevant, will become completely irrelevant as Gia tapers off games played throughout the year.

[Reigning Maddogs]

Yes there are some differences in the roles that Crameri and Dickson play. Personally I think Crameri will serve our team better in the lead up role around the HFF with Dickson as the sneaky mid size forward who can mark and snap goals, similar to Grant however Grant jsut haas the x-factor.

In relation to their output however Crameri and Dickson are very similar in their statistics. Dickson only playing the 30 games may even be up on Crameri by the time he plays out 2014

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=8&pid1=3693&tid2=6&pid2=3416&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=C

Overall our current forwardline mix of Grant, Campbell, Dickson, Dahl, Jones, Stringer, Higgins will provide some headaches for opposition going forward priovided our ball movement improves coming into the forward line from defence. This is where Crameri will pay his way being the main lead up target with possible Jones or Stringer being second and third lead up targets.

Overall Crameri is a good fit for our team and will compliment our current forward line. The cost of pick 22 is about right in normal circumstances however I fear the ASADA investiation and its pending infraction notices involving Crameri. Therefore 22 is overs in my view and we need to hold fast. Als please do not trade Grant he is a must keep! Worth far more to the Bulldogs that he is in any previouly discussed media trade.

[1eyedog]

Yes there are some differences in the roles that Crameri and Dickson play. Personally I think Crameri will serve our team better in the lead up role around the HFF with Dickson as the sneaky mid size forward who can mark and snap goals, similar to Grant however Grant jsut haas the x-factor.

In relation to their output however Crameri and Dickson are very similar in their statistics. Dickson only playing the 30 games may even be up on Crameri by the time he plays out 2014

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=8&pid1=3693&tid2=6&pid2=3416&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=C

Overall our current forwardline mix of Grant, Campbell, Dickson, Dahl, Jones, Stringer, Higgins will provide some headaches for opposition going forward priovided our ball movement improves coming into the forward line from defence. This is where Crameri will pay his way being the main lead up target with possible Jones or Stringer being second and third lead up targets.

Overall Crameri is a good fit for our team and will compliment our current forward line. The cost of pick 22 is about right in normal circumstances however I fear the ASADA investiation and its pending infraction notices involving Crameri. Therefore 22 is overs in my view and we need to hold fast. Als please do not trade Grant he is a must keep! Worth far more to the Bulldogs that he is in any previouly discussed media trade.

Yep agree with your post except that Jones doesn't lead because he'd rather take showtime hangers. If the coaching staff are happy with this he may take a few more given the now plethora of options in our forward line.

[LostDoggy]

Back to Crameri... pick 22 now becomes pick 26. To be honest I think 26 and swap of third-rounders is a good trade. Coming from the most ardent of Essendon haters.

[chef]

Back to Crameri... pick 22 now becomes pick 26. To be honest I think 26 and swap of third-rounders is a good trade. Coming from the most ardent of Essendon haters.

It's going to be a long week with Essendon finally accepting a trade with a minute to go.

[whythelongface]

It's going to be a long week with Essendon finally accepting a trade with a minute to go.

Negotiating with Essendon is like negotiating with the US Republican Party.

[comrade]

Negotiating with Essendon is like negotiating with the US Republican Party.

I wish we could like posts :D

[Remi Moses]

Negotiating with Essendon is like negotiating with the US Republican Party.

Mixed in with those crack pot tea party types.

[Remi Moses]

It's going to be a long week with Essendon finally accepting a trade with a minute to go.

They're so hell bent on "winning " a trade that they take their eye off the ball.

[F'scary]

Negotiating with Essendon is like negotiating with the US Republican Party.

Are Essendon also concerned that they are going bankrupt?

[Remi Moses]

Essendon definetely don't give their citizens any healthcare

[chef]

They're so hell bent on "winning " a trade that they take their eye off the ball.

Yep and that's why no one wants to trade with them.

[hujsh]

Are Essendon also concerned that they are going bankrupt?

Essendon has a similar 'give us what we want because we want it and we said we want it' attitude. If they were a political party they would definitely see their country default on it's debt because they didn't like a law that was passed.

But we must be quite now as our glorious WOOF overlords don't like politics in football discussion threads. ;)

[bulldogsfight]

What's the difference between my wife and: terrorists?

You can negotiate with terrorists:D :eek:

[The Underdog]

Yep and that's why no one wants to trade with them.

Yet approximately half the posts in this thread advocate not giving in and being sick of us rolling over in trades. So do we condemn Essendon for being difficult or admire their staunch stance? I'm confused.

[jeemak]

Yet approximately half the posts in this thread advocate not giving in and being sick of us rolling over in trades. So do we condemn Essendon for being difficult or admire their staunch stance? I'm confused.

I mentioned that earlier, and it's puzzling me just as much as it is you.

[chef]

Yet approximately half the posts in this thread advocate not giving in and being sick of us rolling over in trades. So do we condemn Essendon for being difficult or admire their staunch stance? I'm confused.

I guess it depends on if you want our club to be proactive in trade week or not IMO.

I'm in the camp of not trying to win trade week, but doing deals that's best for all three parties. Sometimes you have to give in a bit(or pay overs) to get what you want, all clubs(bar Essendon) do it.

When have we been rolled?

[The Underdog]

Depends if you want our club to be proactive in trade week IMO.

I'm in the camp of not trying to win trade week, but doing deals that's best for all three parties. Sometimes you have to give in a bit to get what you want.

Agree totally, it's not about winning, it's about improving the team. Need, players available & what you have to trade with will dictate the level of activity. I certainly don't get the hyperbole & insult taken if we compromise to get what we want.
I agree that I don't think we've been rolled in the last 5 yes even in the Lake trade.

[Remi Moses]

I just reckon listening to every outside perception ( even a chunk of Essendon fans) that 20 odd is a good deal. I think what will happen is later picks will get traded to seal the deal

[Topdog]

Of course it is a fair deal. Look at the Mumford trade!

[Remi Moses]

Of course it is a fair deal. Look at the Mumford trade!

It's good practice to a healthy trading relationship.
That's the bit Essendon don't get or understand.

You 'd imagine they'd bully the bowls club to move .
Gee that worked well:D

[Topdog]

hahaha spot on.

[azabob]

Of course it is a fair deal. Look at the Mumford trade!

For every Mumford trade there is a Hampson trade.

[Topdog]

Was Hampson out of contract?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Was Hampson out of contract?

Nope, still under contract.

[Topdog]

thought so. Makes it something that can't be compared.

[soupman]

The Mumford deal shouldn't be used when comparing prices. GWS just wanted to keep their first PSD free, and would have told Sydney that the best they would offer would be 35, and if Sydney didn't take that they get nothing. Sydney had no bargaining power whatsoever, and probably would have taken pick 63 for him if GWS said that was the best they were offering.

[GVGjr]

The Mumford deal shouldn't be used when comparing prices. GWS just wanted to keep their first PSD free, and would have told Sydney that the best they would offer would be 35, and if Sydney didn't take that they get nothing. Sydney had no bargaining power whatsoever, and probably would have taken pick 63 for him if GWS said that was the best they were offering.

GWS offered pick 35 because they were unlikely to use it in the draft it was more important to them to maintain the first pick in the PSD. The other benefit is that Mumford starts training with the club now. On paper it looks overs but both Sydney teams have done well out of this.

[Topdog]

Essendon have no bargaining power either

[Hotdog60]

Would it be rude of the club to say after the Crameri deal is done to state that any future deals with Essendon will need to meet a time frame or we won't be dealing with them.
Their drawn out tactics are ridiculous to the point of them missing out on possible deals with our offered pick and also our own possible missing out on other trades.

[LostDoggy]

I'm sure if we felt we were missing out on something else we wanted to do we would be playing harder with deadlines etc. I think (hope) we are sitting there just shaking our collective heads at Dodoro and his @@&$$shizell..... I also hope we would make Essendon pay for the coffee when they do decide to get real..

[chef]

Essendon and Western Bulldogs yet to deal on Stewart Crameri
ESSENDON is baulking at a trade of picks as part of the deal to get Stewart Crameri to the Western Bulldogs.

The Dogs could secure the tall forward by giving Essendon picks 26 and 42, with the Bombers handing back its pick 48.

But the Bombers want to use 48 in another deal, believed to involve a Greater Western Sydney player.

With just three-and-a-half days to go in the trade period, Crameri could still walk out on the Bombers and enter the pre-season draft.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-and-western-bulldogs-yet-to-deal-on-stewart-crameri-collingwood-gains-pick-6-in-the-draft-and-jesse-white/story-fn69a32t-1226744056468

[LostDoggy]

Preseason draft it is then. How ridiculous... I'd get Crameri's manager to start threatening to sue the club for the last year as well to get some more pressure on if it looked remotely feasible.

[ratsmac]

Essendon can go and get @#$@ed! These twats can't be serious. So we have done the right thing (not that I believe it's right) to keep negotiations moving and to have a reasonable trading ethic, we offer a sweetener and they still are not happy. Tell them stick it. Wouldn't pick 42 give them more bargaining power than pick 48? Do GWS have room on there list to use picks in the 40's anyway? Essendon are morons, but we already knew that.

Pathetic!

[GVGjr]

Wouldn't pick 42 give them more bargaining power than pick 48? Do GWS have room on there list to use picks in the 40's anyway? Essendon are morons, but we already knew that.

Pathetic!

They don't want to use pick 42 on a trade they want to use that pick to draft a player. In other works they might deal Crameri for 26 and 42 but not for 26, 42 and then having to give the Dogs pick 48.

At least they have come off their demands for something between picks 13 and 17.

[GVGjr]

With the news that Jed Lamb has walked out on the Swans and has nominated that he wants to join the Giants hopefully that means he will get their via the PSD rather than a trade.

This might give us some leverage with the Bombers because if the threat of the Giants taking him in the PSD is gone, Melbourne not needing a forward it just leaves the Saints ahead of us and I think that is unlikely.

[Sedat]

With the news that Jed Lamb has walked out on the Swans and has nominated that he wants to join the Giants hopefully that means he will get their via the PSD rather than a trade.

This might give us some leverage with the Bombers because if the threat of the Giants taking him in the PSD is gone, Melbourne not needing a forward it just leaves the Saints ahead of us and I think that is unlikely.
Saints are trying to get Josh Bruce to walk through to the PSD, so if Lamb also goes through we are pretty much unencumbered to pick up Crameri via the PSD.

Essendon will have brought this on themselves if this scenario does eventuate.

[GVGjr]

Saints are trying to get Josh Bruce to walk through to the PSD, so if Lamb also goes through we are pretty much unencumbered to pick up Crameri via the PSD.

Essendon will have brought this on themselves if this scenario does eventuate.

While the it's probably an unlikely scenario if this somehow does occur, we would be within our rights to reconsider our offer of pick 26.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Do Essendon deserve protocols in this deal? The Bulldogs may want to still conduct themselves with a sense of protocol but is it now only out of sensitivity to Brendan McCartney's links with Essendon or out of respect for Jason McCartney's work to negotiate a trade that we still try to honour this deal?
It beggars belief. To me we look like Hansel and Gretel for offering them anything, given the situation.
Pull the offer and off to the PSD please!!!

[LostDoggy]

Do Essendon deserve protocols in this deal? The Bulldogs may want to still conduct themselves with a sense of protocol but is it now only out of sensitivity to Brendan McCartney's links with Essendon or out of respect for Jason McCartney's work to negotiate a trade that we still try to honour this deal?
It beggars belief. To me we look like Hansel and Gretel for offering them anything, given the situation.
Pull the offer and off to the PSD please!!!

Seconded. I've never liked the bombers. This year and in particular the last three weeks has seen that dislike plummet to depths of hatred I didn't know was within my capacity. I'm talking a bottomless well of utter distain.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Seconded. I've never liked the bombers. This year and in particular the last three weeks has seen that dislike plummet to depths of hatred I didn't know was within my capacity. I'm talking a bottomless well of utter distain.
I feel contempt for them and their resort to drugs, lack of player welfare and greed for success but I want to temper that feeling of contempt.
But I have a hangup about us not asserting ourselves and about us possibly being weak in this deal.

[azabob]

I think we also need to remember that we are talking about a person - Stuart Crameri.

We want and need to do the right thing by him.

If we can facilitate a fair trade, we should still persue this option.

[mighty_west]

We should pull out of the Crameri trade in which we should have no issues landing him in the PSD anyway and offer GWS our pick 42 for this Shaun Edwards kid, he looks like a good little player. ;)

[LostDoggy]

I think we also need to remember that we are talking about a person - Stuart Crameri.

We want and need to do the right thing by him.

If we can facilitate a fair trade, we should still persue this option.

One person bigger than the club? I know the protracted negotiations aren't his fault, but the club shouldn't feel they owe him anything just yet.

[Maddog37]

We should pull out of the Crameri trade in which we should have no issues landing him in the PSD anyway and offer GWS our pick 42 for this Shaun Edwards kid, he looks like a good little player. ;)

Will GWS even use a pick that high?

[mighty_west]

Will GWS even use a pick that high?

Who knows, but if they won't use pick 42 they definitely won't use the Bombers pick 48, perhaps they'd use the pick as part of another deal for an experienced player.

[LostDoggy]

I think we also need to remember that we are talking about a person - Stuart Crameri.

We want and need to do the right thing by him.

If we can facilitate a fair trade, we should still persue this option.

I absolutely agree with this. But my point is Essendon own this moral responsibility. They stuck the guy full of needles for a year and now treat his desire to leave like a footy version of the great escape??? Poor bastard can't get past the wire so we have to build the tunnels to get him out? It's utterly ridiculous. No other club works the trade period like this and it continues to demonstrate their lack of accountability. I would feel almost the same anger if the guy was trying to get to a different club than ours. Dons are just appalling. Morally bankrupt in this scenario.

Rooting for you Crameri!

[Murphy'sLore]

Meanwhile the goal of 1000 posts in this thread looks certain to get over the line today...

[bornadog]

I am still concerned if Crameri goes to the PSD that either GWS with two picks or the Saints decide to pick him up. Why wouldn't they?

[G-Mo77]

I am still concerned if Crameri goes to the PSD that either GWS with two picks or the Saints decide to pick him up. Why wouldn't they?

I wouldn't grab a player who didn't want to play for my club. It is a possibility they could take him but I'm confident he'll fall to our pick.

[Hotdog60]

Meanwhile the goal of 1000 posts in this thread looks certain to get over the line today...

This may help.:D

[Hotdog60]

This may help.:D

Or maybe this

[G-Mo77]

Or maybe this

Spammer! :)