Jonathan Patton

[Eastdog]

Thought ill start a thread for this player as there is a thread on Crameri and Boyd already. Can we secure him realistically.

[F'scary]

I am going to play devil's advocate:

Here are the reasons why swapping #4 for Patton should not be pursued.

1. We have already unearthed an even bigger and quite possibly better power forward in Tom Campbell.

2. Patton is risky because of the ACL injury.

3. Patton has not set the world on fire. He has only played 2 AFL games since being drafted #1 in 2011 (same year as Clay Smith who has played 30 games).

4. Our forward line issues have been solved: We are getting another highly touted forward in Crameri. The combination of Dahlhaus, Campbell, Crameri, Stringer, Grant & Hunter along with Jones, Williams, Higgins, Dickson, Giansiracusa and even Clay Smith & Koby Stevens vying for forward positions as well looks pretty good for 2014 and beyond.

5. Our biggest problem is quality movement of the ball into the forward line. Pick 4 therefore should be used to get a young midfielder with quality foot disposal, e.g. Scharenberg.

[chef]

Can't see him being traded just yet.

[Eastdog]

Definitely see what your saying F'scary in that our ball movement from the midfield needs to be better. Would it help though along with Crameri that we have another forward up there.

[FrediKanoute]

Patton though is different. He is a key monster forward in the johnnies brown mould. Midfield silk is important, but you never pass on tall quality forward.

Yes there are risks, an Acl is not great, but at his age he should be ok.

Campbell, showed a bit, but he is a ruck man first and will be a lump in the forward line rather than a focal point.

[Eastdog]

Patton though is different. He is a key monster forward in the johnnies brown mould. Midfield silk is important, but you never pass on tall quality forward.

Yes there are risks, an Acl is not great, but at his age he should be ok.

Campbell, showed a bit, but he is a ruck man first and will be a lump in the forward line rather than a focal point.

So you see Campbell more of as a future replacement in the ruck once Minson departs.

[F'scary]

Patton though is different. He is a key monster forward in the johnnies brown mould. Midfield silk is important, but you never pass on tall quality forward.

Yes there are risks, an Acl is not great, but at his age he should be ok.

Campbell, showed a bit, but he is a ruck man first and will be a lump in the forward line rather than a focal point.

I think Campbell showed more than a bit and could easily become a new generation J Brown. He did not play like a resting ruckman lump in the last part of the 2013 season when he was reintroduced to the seniors. I am predicting that if we don't waste our #4 pick on a swap for Patton, Campbell will consolidate as the key deep forward, be a minor sensation in 2014 and continue to build from there.

[FrediKanoute]

Yes, he is a pinch hitting forward not someone you build a team around.

I admit he looked good down there and was effective in the latter part of the season, but can he do this all year and return 50+ goals which is what you would expect from a FF?

Patton I think is a natural forward, he is someone you build a. Side around.

[F'scary]

Yes, he is a pinch hitting forward not someone you build a team around.

I admit he looked good down there and was effective in the latter part of the season, but can he do this all year and return 50+ goals which is what you would expect from a FF?

Patton I think is a natural forward, he is someone you build a. Side around.

Fair enough, I would probably get on board if the trade went ahead, get excited and look forward to seeing him at FF in our colours in 2014.

I'll leave it at this: if Patton has so much currency, I would think the Dees or the Saints with higher draft picks to trade will beat us to him anyway. They need him as much as us, if not more.

[G-Mo77]

Would love him but don't think GWS will trade him at all.

[F'scary]

Would love him but don't think GWS will trade him at all.

Does this mean they will have Patton, Boyd and Buddy in the same forward line next year? Thanks Dementedriou.

[Eastdog]

Does this mean they will have Patton, Boyd and Buddy in the same forward line next year? Thanks Dementedriou.

Would be annoyed by that. Thats the AFL for you. Could we go for Buddy or is it just not worth it.

[G-Mo77]

Does this mean they will have Patton, Boyd and Buddy in the same forward line next year? Thanks Dementedriou.

And Cameron.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Would love him but don't think GWS will trade him at all.

I still don't get how GWS are allowing him to get medicals at other clubs yet won't be trading him. Testing his value perhaps?

[chef]

I still don't get how GWS are allowing him to get medicals at other clubs yet won't be trading him. Testing his value perhaps?

That's never been confirmed outside of Facebook though has it?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

That's never been confirmed outside of Facebook though has it?

Rooner confirmed on this forum...

[craigsahibee]

Agree totally with everything you say F'Scary, but one could also argue that Patton may straighten us up and also lead smarter allowing our midfield to take easier kicking options which will make the mids look better stat wise.

It's worth asking the questions of GWS to test the water.

[chef]

Rooner confirmed on this forum...

And how did Rooner find this out?

Not doubting just wondering.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

And how dis Rooner find this out?

Not doubting just wondering.

He did say in the speculation forum last week. I'll let Rooner explain that but reliable sources it seems. I've also heard the same from fairly reliable people

[chef]

He did say in the speculation forum last week. I'll let Rooner explain that but reliable sources it seems. I've also heard the same from fairly reliable people

Surprising that this hasn't been reported in the media then.

[bulldogtragic]

Surprising that this hasn't been reported in the media then.
It has. Hutchy, SEN, Terry Wallace among others have all reported it. Doesn't make it true, but I've seen the claim on TV, radio, twitter, woof and on the net generally.

[chef]

It has. Hutchy, SEN, Terry Wallace among others have all reported it. Doesn't make it true, but I've seen the claim on TV, radio, twitter, woof and on the net generally.

I must be living under a rock:o

[bulldogtragic]

I must be living under a rock:o
Take it with a grain of salt, I think the nucleus of all this rumour is Plough (he is connected to every alleged source). But I've not heard any GWS denials anywhere, maybe they don't have to?

Until he's in the tri-colours I won't be raising my heart rate.

[westdog54]

I still don't get how GWS are allowing him to get medicals at other clubs yet won't be trading him. Testing his value perhaps?

He's on Leave from the club. I'm guessing that he's got a fair degree of movement at the moment.

[The Doctor]

Wallace is obviously an internet junkie.

Why would any club leak anything to him. How would he find out about anything other than the internet?

[LostDoggy]

This is simply a forum rumour and is will just not happen. Wake up people, there has not been one piece of legitimate news that he, the Bulldogs or GWS are seeing some movement or discussion.

Hopeful posts by doggie supporters.

[always right]

This is simply a forum rumour and is will just not happen. Wake up people, there has not been one piece of legitimate news that he, the Bulldogs or GWS are seeing some movement or discussion.

Hopeful posts by doggie supporters.

With your posts about us never winning a premiership in your lifetime and now this.......You're a happy soul aren't you? :)

[OLD SCRAGGer]

With your posts about us never winning a premiership in your lifetime and now this.......You're a happy soul aren't you? :)

Love this <3

[Remi Moses]

This is simply a forum rumour and is will just not happen. Wake up people, there has not been one piece of legitimate news that he, the Bulldogs or GWS are seeing some movement or discussion.

Hopeful posts by doggie supporters.

It is possible if we put up pick 4 and possibly some steak knives.
If Franklin comes ( the drums are beaten to death) then they have to many key bigs.
Surely they could use an early pick on a need from another team.

[LostDoggy]

With your posts about us never winning a premiership in your lifetime and now this.......You're a happy soul aren't you? :)
Not happy at all on Grand Final weekend Always Right. I openly admit that I get no pleasure watching other teams play in the GF and I haven't actually say down and watched a GF since 1997.

I also know that I am not alone with this .... having read other posts by Bulldogs supporters here and on the other forum. I have always had great hope that we would play in a GF during my nearly 50 years of supporting this club, but after seeing every other team in the Afl play in a granny (except the two expansion clubs) and not Footscray/Western Bulldogs, I think history shows my reasons are justified for thinking this club won't play in a GF in my lifetime!

I have waited 46 years so far .......... the law of averages aren't actually tilting our way.

[anfo27]

Is Patton worth pick 4?

I want a big gorilla at full forward who can mark & kick goals like everyone else but not sure he is worth pick 4. Patton was pick #1 2 years ago in a compromised draft. Has pretty much shown nothing in the senior games he has played so far. Missed the start of his first year with knee issues & missed most of his second year with a knee reconstruction. Now GWS are possibly looking to unload him & we want to give them pick 4. This deal comes with a lot of risk.

[F'scary]

Is Patton worth pick 4?

I want a big gorilla at full forward who can mark & kick goals like everyone else but not sure he is worth pick 4. Patton was pick #1 2 years ago in a compromised draft. Has pretty much shown nothing in the senior games he has played so far. Missed the start of his first year with knee issues & missed most of his second year with a knee reconstruction. Now GWS are possibly looking to unload him & we want to give them pick 4. This deal comes with a lot of risk.

I am with you anfo27.

[Maddog37]

Is Patton worth pick 4?

I want a big gorilla at full forward who can mark & kick goals like everyone else but not sure he is worth pick 4. Patton was pick #1 2 years ago in a compromised draft. Has pretty much shown nothing in the senior games he has played so far. Missed the start of his first year with knee issues & missed most of his second year with a knee reconstruction. Now GWS are possibly looking to unload him & we want to give them pick 4. This deal comes with a lot of risk.


Risk for reward. Only one way to find out. You would want some very thorough medical assessment done though.

[LostDoggy]

Not happy at all on Grand Final weekend Always Right. I openly admit that I get no pleasure watching other teams play in the GF and I haven't actually say down and watched a GF since 1997.

I also know that I am not alone with this .... having read other posts by Bulldogs supporters here and on the other forum. I have always had great hope that we would play in a GF during my nearly 50 years of supporting this club, but after seeing every other team in the Afl play in a granny (except the two expansion clubs) and not Footscray/Western Bulldogs, I think history shows my reasons are justified for thinking this club won't play in a GF in my lifetime!

I have waited 46 years so far .......... the law of averages aren't actually tilting our way.

Sorry if this sounds disrespectful — I've only served 31 years of your 50, so mucho respecto to you — but how on Earth does 60 years of history impact on the team in 2014?

It hurts us as fans. It doesn't mean a thing to 40-odd young blokes who've only been responsible for at most the last decade, and most of them the previous few years.

[Reigning Maddogs]

I concur F'scray & Anfo.

Not worth the risk in my opinion. Secure pick 4 likely 200 game player, have another good pick @ 22 and make sure we land a player. Round 3 pick used for Crameri and Round 4 smokie or possibly even Thorp.

[LostDoggy]

I'd much rather pick 4 for Patton than Pick 4 + Minson/other star for pick 1.

[SonofScray]

Sorry if this sounds disrespectful — I've only served 31 years of your 50, so mucho respecto to you — but how on Earth does 60 years of history impact on the team in 2014?

It hurts us as fans. It doesn't mean a thing to 40-odd young blokes who've only been responsible for at most the last decade, and most of them the previous few years.

Sort of agree, logically it doesn't and if you look at the game through a certain lens it shouldn't. But it does. The Club has a very old monkey on its back and each iteration of the team we put out on the field shoulders the weight of expectation and fear of being just another group who blew it. For mine, its a very real factor.

Back on topic though:

My general rule is the safe bet is to nail the draft and develop our own. I am gun shy about trading, particularly for 'white knight' tall forwards. We've sucked so hard at it in the past, my trust is very limited in the idea. Patton is probably a far better talent than what we've had access to in the past though, so I can see the argument for it.

I'd rather we didn't take the risk. Picks inside the top 10 rarely are a complete bust.

[boydogs]

I'd rather we didn't take the risk. Picks inside the top 10 rarely are a complete bust.

Picks like Patton?

[Remi Moses]

All of a sudden Patton's a complete bust.
Little bit early to be making that judgement call.

[soupman]

I'm open to the idea of securing Patton with pick 4.

I think the club realises that this might be our last chance for a while to secure a quality young key forward. We will likely have a worse pick next year, limiting our access to the highest rated KPFs, and even if we did have a high pick who's to say the key forwards we want will slip to it (Boyd certainly won't this year). It's easier to find a gun mid at pick 5+ than a key forward, and getting Patton could be an opportunity worth taking.

[ratsmac]

Picks like Patton?

EXACTLY!! We could be in a position (if Patton is actually up for trade) to secure the player that 2 years ago had every club green with envy. He has had a bad run with injuries which is a bit of a risk but not the end of his career. He hasn't been able to prove his value yet which is exactly why we could be able to snare him with our pick 4. If he had not been injured he would of played more games, kicked more goals and we would of seen what all the fuss was about with him being number 1 and we wouldn't even be talking about him right now. His injury has created an opportunity and we don't want to look back and say we missed out. Millionaires didn't get rich by not taking calculated risks with their money. Patton is a calculated risk that could pay massive dividends. Saying that pick 4 for Patton is overs doesn't even make sense.

[stefoid]

Where would Patton go in this years draft, knee injuries taken into account?

[bulldogtragic]

Where would Patton go in this years draft, knee injuries taken into account?
If Stringer was pick 5 with an horrific leg injury, Patton is top 3 or 4 easily. Easily.

[Bulldog4life]

This is simply a forum rumour and is will just not happen. Wake up people, there has not been one piece of legitimate news that he, the Bulldogs or GWS are seeing some movement or discussion.

Hopeful posts by doggie supporters.

Taylor Adams appears set on a move back to Victoria, while Jonathon Patton falls into the rumour category. There have been whispers he could be moved on at a club that could have fellow key forwards Franklin, Jeremy Cameron and Tom Boyd on its pay roll. The Giants would need to get exceptional value, however, if they were to ship the No.1 pick to another club. - James Dampney

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-18/aflcomaus-trade-whispers

This was on the AFL website on 18th September so is not just a forum rumour Pete.

[1eyedog]

Is Patton worth pick 4?

I want a big gorilla at full forward who can mark & kick goals like everyone else but not sure he is worth pick 4. Patton was pick #1 2 years ago in a compromised draft. Has pretty much shown nothing in the senior games he has played so far. Missed the start of his first year with knee issues & missed most of his second year with a knee reconstruction. Now GWS are possibly looking to unload him & we want to give them pick 4. This deal comes with a lot of risk.

Most deals come with risk. He is a former No 1 power forward who has played a handful of games. His development needs to be tempered but he could be anything.

He is absolutely worth pick 4.

[DragzLS1]

Heard Franklin may go to the swans instead of gws which would make this discussion irrelavant, hope its not true and that he goes to gws so we could possibly get Patton with pick 4. Well worth it.

[F'scary]

Taylor Adams appears set on a move back to Victoria, while Jonathon Patton falls into the rumour category. There have been whispers he could be moved on at a club that could have fellow key forwards Franklin, Jeremy Cameron and Tom Boyd on its pay roll. The Giants would need to get exceptional value, however, if they were to ship the No.1 pick to another club. - James Dampney

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-18/aflcomaus-trade-whispers

This was on the AFL website on 18th September so is not just a forum rumour Pete.

Took a look, one thing stood out that indicates to me that there may not be a lot behind what was written is that it states

" A name like Jason Johannisen has been thrown up as potential trade bait to get that sort of deal over the line..." (re Crameri or even Gumbleton).

It then states

"...and a classy outside runner will be on top of the club's wish list."

*Face palm* Hang on, but JJ is a classy outside runner.

We might well be looking for some more classy outside run but I can't see the sense of trading the most excellent JJ if there is a deficiency in this area as many feel there is.

[Bulldog4life]

Took a look, one thing stood out that indicates to me that there may not be a lot behind what was written is that it states

" A name like Jason Johannisen has been thrown up as potential trade bait to get that sort of deal over the line..." (re Crameri or even Gumbleton).

It then states

"...and a classy outside runner will be on top of the club's wish list."

*Face palm* Hang on, but JJ is a classy outside runner.

We might well be looking for some more classy outside run but I can't see the sense of trading the most excellent JJ if there is a deficiency in this area as many feel there is.


Difference is that our Club has come out and said that JJ is off limits. Haven't heard a peep from GWS yet about Patton.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Difference is that our Club has come out and said that JJ is off limits. Haven't heard a peep from GWS yet about Patton.

Its interesting because Trade Radio basically dismissed any talk of Patton leaving the Giants. I wouldnt normally believe any of the talk out there but having Rooner on these forums say he has a source who confirmed Patton had a medical with us is a little more founded. Well id like to think so anyway :D Rooner, how well would you back your source?

[Cyberdoggie]

Took a look, one thing stood out that indicates to me that there may not be a lot behind what was written is that it states

" A name like Jason Johannisen has been thrown up as potential trade bait to get that sort of deal over the line..." (re Crameri or even Gumbleton).

It then states

"...and a classy outside runner will be on top of the club's wish list."

*Face palm* Hang on, but JJ is a classy outside runner.

We might well be looking for some more classy outside run but I can't see the sense of trading the most excellent JJ if there is a deficiency in this area as many feel there is.

The media is just guessing as far as I can tell.
They take a quick look at our list and think who would Essendon want that might be a good trade for Crameri and just put 2 and 2 together.

We'd be idiots if we traded JJ. We have very little cover in the small running defenders as it is. JJ's precision passing stands out at our club across the back line, you don't trade those players lightly.

[LostDoggy]

Jason MaCartney told the guy on trade radio last week JJ was not up for trade.

[westdog54]

Jason MaCartney told the guy on trade radio last week JJ was not up for trade.

Shhh, someone at the HS might hear you!:D

[LostDoggy]

Its interesting because Trade Radio basically dismissed any talk of Patton leaving the Giants. I wouldnt normally believe any of the talk out there but having Rooner on these forums say he has a source who confirmed Patton had a medical with us is a little more founded. Well id like to think so anyway :D Rooner, how well would you back your source?

Yep I called him back to be certain and yep he was sure of it. I would say it all hangs on Buddy and we will here more after Wednesday I think.

Put it this way if it all comes out to be untrue and he didnt have a Medical I'll bar myself from posting for the rest of the year for punishment. :)

[Bulldog4life]

Yep I called him back to be certain and yep he was sure of it. I would say it all hangs on Buddy and we will here more after Wednesday I think.

Put it this way if it all comes out to be untrue and he didnt have a Medical I'll bar myself from posting for the rest of the year for punishment. :)

You wouldn't know this Rooner but it would be interesting to know whether he had medicals at any other Club.

[LostDoggy]

Yea it would be nice to know. Or even the results. Time will tell I suppose.

[F'scary]

Difference is that our Club has come out and said that JJ is off limits. Haven't heard a peep from GWS yet about Patton.

Glad to hear that B4L!

[F'scary]

The media is just guessing as far as I can tell.
They take a quick look at our list and think who would Essendon want that might be a good trade for Crameri and just put 2 and 2 together.

We'd be idiots if we traded JJ. We have very little cover in the small running defenders as it is. JJ's precision passing stands out at our club across the back line, you don't trade those players lightly.

And he's pretty good on the overlap when we're zooming forward of the centre line.

[ledge]

Someone I know is getting married on the weekend and Leon Cameron is going , said he will hit him up on Patton

[bulldogtragic]

Buddy not going to GWS by all reports, Sydney is expected destination.

No Patton...

[Cyberdoggie]

I get the feeling that when Buddy signs over to GWS, Patton's name will be up in lights for quite a number of clubs.

Carlton,
StKilda,
Freo,
WB's,
Hawthorn
Adelaide
Brisbane

Off the top of my head would all be interested in a big key forward.

StKilda, Carlton, and Freo could all do a better deal than us if they wanted to,
Hawthorn also has options to trade if they wanted, and no one would question Clarko right now.

Freo has been after another key forward for a while, they had a crack at Cloke and might get desperate after a GF loss.

Patton will most likely want to come back to Melbourne, let's hope that's with us.

[bulldogtragic]

I get the feeling that when Buddy signs over to GWS, Patton's name will be up in lights for quite a number of clubs.

Carlton,
StKilda,
Freo,
WB's,
Hawthorn
Adelaide
Brisbane

Off the top of my head would all be interested in a big key forward.

StKilda, Carlton, and Freo could all do a better deal than us if they wanted to,
Hawthorn also has options to trade if they wanted, and no one would question Clarko right now.

Freo has been after another key forward for a while, they had a crack at Cloke and might get desperate after a GF loss.

Patton will most likely want to come back to Melbourne, let's hope that's with us.
GWS have officially withdrawn offer. Publicly.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

GWS have officially withdrawn offer. Publicly.

I think this has surprised even GWS tbh. They've jumped the gun out of anger with him i rekon. Major major shock. THink there will be a bit of uproar from hawthorn supporters and non-sydney fans alike

[ratsmac]

Well if we still want this to happen we have to make them an offer they can't refuse. I was super excited about this possible trade. Sydney have ruined my day.

[Eastdog]

Well if we still want this to happen we have to make them an offer they can't refuse. I was super excited about this possible trade. Sydney have ruined my day.

What could be the best offer we can make.

[bulldogtragic]

Well if we still want this to happen we have to make them an offer they can't refuse. I was super excited about this possible trade. Sydney have ruined my day.
Yep, would involve a Jones or Talia.

[Cyberdoggie]

Probably going to be a lot less trading now that GWS didn't get their man.

They will keep pick 1, and will keep Patton, unless someone offers the kitchen sink for him.

[Eastdog]

Yep, would involve a Jones or Talia.

Who out of Jones or Talia would you trade away BT.

[Sedat]

Probably going to be a lot less trading now that GWS didn't get their man.

They will keep pick 1, and will keep Patton, unless someone offers the kitchen sink for him.
Probably a lot more trading now that GWS has a tonne of money freed up to spend. Instead of Buddy, they now probably have a hit list of 4-5 very good players to fill the good and improve their list.

[Cyberdoggie]

Probably a lot more trading now that GWS has a tonne of money freed up to spend. Instead of Buddy, they now probably have a hit list of 4-5 very good players to fill the good and improve their list.

True but the carrot of a Boyd or a Patton for other clubs is no longer there.

It's only GWS that are looking for established players and no one really wants to entertain them if Boyd and Patton aren't available.

[ratsmac]

What could be the best offer we can make.

Obviously our pick 4 and either Wood/Higgins/Talia/Smith/Wallis.

I'm just throwing names up, but if we want to entice them to trade him it would have to be something they really need. How desperate are we for a gorilla forward? No pain no gain I say. You can see what Sydney are willing to pay for Buddy. They are willing to sacrifice a lot of their salary cap on one player (even though they have the extra cola), it could be madness or genius. Patton is no Buddy but he could be.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ox just made mention on SEN that Patton was down at the club taking a tour. This could have been from last week however so could all be for nothing now with Franklin not going to GWS....Still, might have meant we were a real shot if Buddy headed to GWS

[bulldogtragic]

Ox just made mention on SEN that Patton was down at the club taking a tour. This could have been from last week however so could all be for nothing now with Franklin not going to GWS....Still, might have meant we were a real shot if Buddy headed to GWS
Unless there are attitude problems or serious homesickness, I can't see why they would shop him now unless they really, really want Scharenberg or Bontempelli. Bloody Buddy.

[bulldogtragic]

Well twitter has decided the Ox is a good enough source to start the 'Patton for Pick 4' rumour.

Our Lindsay Gilbee has tweeted support for it.

[azabob]

Ox just made mention on SEN that Patton was down at the club taking a tour. This could have been from last week however so could all be for nothing now with Franklin not going to GWS....Still, might have meant we were a real shot if Buddy headed to GWS

Not entirely true. He said listeners had been texting in saying Patton had been at the club. Big difference.

[bulldogtragic]

Twitter now saying Ox just said he was at St Kilda TODAY.

I thought it was reported he was in the states???

Silly season :)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Twitter now saying Ox just said he was at St Kilda TODAY.

I thought it was reported he was in the states???

Silly season :)

Purple monkey dishwasher going on I think. He is in the states and you would think saints hold onto pick 3. Wouldn't think Patton is the godfather offer they said they would need to trade pick 3... But then again....it is silly season. Don't think he will be going anywhere

[KT31]

Twitter now saying Ox just said he was at St Kilda TODAY.

I thought it was reported he was in the states???

Silly season :)

Stuff St-Kilda, if he have even a half chance we should throw the sink in and get Patton.
Surely our future and culture looks brighter than the Saints, we only have to match them with dollars and years.

[F'scary]

Stuff St-Kilda, if he have even a half chance we should throw the sink in and get Patton.
Surely our future and culture looks brighter than the Saints, we only have to match them with dollars and years.

...and school girls :eek:

[KT31]

...and school girls :eek:

Like.:)

[always right]

Wow! Bulldogs board on Bigfooty wetting themselves with excitement at the possibility of getting Patton. Would love it to happen but I'd be staggered if it comes true....I reckon people are setting themselves up for a big letdown.

[LostDoggy]

Wow! Bulldogs board on Bigfooty wetting themselves with excitement at the possibility of getting Patton. Would love it to happen but I'd be staggered if it comes true....I reckon people are setting themselves up for a big letdown.

It's all positive. Even if none of these (Patton, Boyd, Crameri) etc happen at least we are (seemingly) targeting big proven / potential names. Not linking ourselves with c and d graders.

We've got to play with the big boys. Analyse why some/all don't come over after the trade period :)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Wow! Bulldogs board on Bigfooty wetting themselves with excitement at the possibility of getting Patton. Would love it to happen but I'd be staggered if it comes true....I reckon people are setting themselves up for a big letdown.

Yeah massive letdown. One of them is stringing the rest of them on with "inside information". although you can tell he changes his story all the time

[ratsmac]

Bigfooty = Big twats.

But that's hardly a revelation is it.

[SonofScray]

It's all positive. Even if none of these (Patton, Boyd, Crameri) etc happen at least we are (seemingly) targeting big proven / potential names. Not linking ourselves with c and d graders.

We've got to play with the big boys. Analyse why some/all don't come over after the trade period :)

It has been refreshing to hear those type of prospects considered rather than the likes of:

James, Hansen, Bolton, Rawlings, McDougall, Saunders, Basset, Morgan etc etc

I think Macca has been a calming influence on us as a club, set a clear vision, no knee jerk reactions. J-Mac seems to be pretty astute in his role as a list manager as well. The previous couple of seasons drafting and trading have sat really well with me.

Seems like we have a plan, for a change. Not just buckling to media observations and settling for recycled duds.

[1eyedog]

It has been refreshing to hear those type of prospects considered rather than the likes of:

James, Hansen, Bolton, Rawlings, McDougall, Saunders, Basset, Morgan etc etc

I think Macca has been a calming influence on us as a club, set a clear vision, no knee jerk reactions. J-Mac seems to be pretty astute in his role as a list manager as well. The previous couple of seasons drafting and trading have sat really well with me.

Seems like we have a plan, for a change. Not just buckling to media observations and settling for recycled duds.

Says a lot about Macca as a person too for mine. If Patton was at the club, Crameri is keen to follow him across and other big forwards are keen to talk us it means they have confidence in him and that his reputation externally is very strong. Great signs for us and what I love about him getting the role as senior coach is that he appears to be a man of substance and a great educator unlike Neeld and potentially Watters.

Looks like we made the right decision going for an ex-Geelong coach ala. Sando and Hinkley who are also doing quite well.

[LostDoggy]

I actually like the absolute silence from the club so far since the end of the season. Makes me think they are diligently working away on their trading opportunities without creating any suspicion. I wonder if a Patten arrangement is being worked on?

[bulldogtragic]

Please correct me, but I thought I saw a tweet a few days ago from GWS saying Patton was not being shopped. Now I can't see that tweet in their tweet history. Am I making things up?

[azabob]

Please correct me, but I thought I saw a tweet a few days ago from GWS saying Patton was not being shopped. Now I can't see that tweet in their tweet history. Am I making things up?

I know they mentioned something about Sheil not going anywhere.

[bulldogtragic]

I know they mentioned something about Sheil not going anywhere.
Ah, that might be it. Mixing up my GWS exodus rumours...

[Dry Rot]

If GWS cannot snare a Pick 1 for a star Fyfe/Pendlebury etc type deal, and if they retain pick 1 and decide to take Boyd, then trading Patton to us or the Saints is an obvious no brainer. They're ****ing idiots if they don't.

Patton will see little AFL game time next year, between recovering from his ACL and GWS having no room in their forward line, and will hardly being able to show his talents or otherwise in a shitty Sydney seconds comp.

Come the 2014 draft, it will be uncompromised and apparently has lots of good tall forwards. If GWS want to trade Patton then, he will be up against tall and talented competition not present in this draft. The bottom 4 or 6 teams may well go for a 2014 draftee, rather than a tall who has dodgy knees and has been in the system for a few seasons with bugger all games to show for it.

[bulldogtragic]

I know they mentioned something about Sheil not going anywhere.
Ah, found that one. Pretty thin though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If GWS cannot snare a Pick 1 for a star Fyfe/Pendlebury etc type deal, and if they retain pick 1 and decide to take Boyd, then trading Patton to us or the Saints is an obvious no brainer. They're ****ing idiots if they don't.

Not sure about that. If they got Buddy, absolutely, but they didn't. Why can't Boyd, Patton and Cameron function in the same forward line?

I know there's also suggestion that Tomilson and Jaksch are there, but surely Patton is rated higher than those two despite his ACL setback?

If they were to trade anyone, shouldn't it be Jacksch?

Of course, I hope you and the speculation is correct, and we land Patton. It could be a win-win for both clubs, particularly us.

[Dry Rot]

Not sure about that. If they got Buddy, absolutely, but they didn't. Why can't Boyd, Patton and Cameron function in the same forward line?

I know there's also suggestion that Tomilson and Jaksch are there, but surely Patton is rated higher than those two despite his ACL setback?


Tomlinson (high leading CHF) and Cameron (closer to the goal square freakie forward like J Riewoldt) are both different players to Patton and Boyd (more Jono Brown gorillas) , who by all accounts are similar.

So IMO it's how do you fit Patton and Boyd into a forward line with Tomlinson and Cameron.

Jaksch can play forward and back, but if his manager is smart, he'll explain to Jaksch that there will be no room at the inn up forward with GWS next year.

FWIW, I don't think a Jaksch and Pick 10 for our Pick 4 plus steak knives should be dismissed if we can't get Patton.

[G-Mo77]

Please correct me, but I thought I saw a tweet a few days ago from GWS saying Patton was not being shopped. Now I can't see that tweet in their tweet history. Am I making things up?

I read something on Twitter along those lines.

[jazzadogs]

I read something on Twitter along those lines.
When they failed to get Buddy, they released a statement saying something along the lines of "we look forward to Patton and Cameron tearing defences apart for years to come". Don't remember a categorical "we won't trade him" though.

[G-Mo77]

When they failed to get Buddy, they released a statement saying something along the lines of "we look forward to Patton and Cameron tearing defences apart for years to come". Don't remember a categorical "we won't trade him" though.

I do, I think it was a quote from his manager and was tweeted through MMM or 3AW. Can't remember.

[F'scary]

We've got the Soup Monster. He will do.

[Axe Man]

From the AFL website:


9.54am: Jason McCartney from the Bulldogs knocks the Jonathan Patton rumours on the head, saying it's unlikely. Also says there is still some way to go on getting Crameri to the club.

[Hotdog60]

From the AFL website:

Also J.Mc said that Crameri was possibly the only trade the Dogs will do and that they will look to the Draft which they have had good success in the resent past.

[Bulldog4life]

Also J.Mc said that Crameri was possibly the only trade the Dogs will do and that they will look to the Draft which they have had good success in the resent past.

Heard him too. Sounds good to me.

[chef]

Also J.Mc said that Crameri was possibly the only trade the Dogs will do and that they will look to the Draft which they have had good success in the resent past.

Excellent.

[anfo27]

Very happy to keep pick 4. Hopefully the lowest pick we will have for long time.

[Remi Moses]

Very happy to keep pick 4. Hopefully the lowest pick we will have for long time.

Pick 4 for Scherzer or Verlander Anfo?

[anfo27]

Pick 4 for Scherzer or Verlander Anfo?

Could certainly do with an all star at pick 4 Remi. Mad Max has been the man this year though but Cabrera would be my choice though. What a player.

[LostDoggy]

Where are the posters that had the "inside information" on Patton coming to the dogs?

[bulldogtragic]

If you watched him tonight, you'd find a trade last year. Cruel to let me think of him in the tri colours.

[Remi Moses]

They were never going to trade Patton.
I'd say Jacksh would be more likely to get traded.

[LostDoggy]

They'll trade him if they are confident he won't re-sign and he demands it. They also thought they had Buddy in the gun. Patton still viable according to some reasonably reliable reports. Would still have to see it to truly believe it but I can see the attraction of him choosing the dogs. First time we've been in that boat for 20 years....

[bulldogtragic]

They'll trade him if they are confident he won't re-sign and he demands it. They also thought they had Buddy in the gun. Patton still viable according to some reasonably reliable reports. Would still have to see it to truly believe it but I can see the attraction of him choosing the dogs. First time we've been in that boat for 20 years....

It would cost us any chance of a Reid or Frawley, it'd need to be massive dollars.

[azabob]

It would cost us any chance of a Reid or Frawley, it'd need to be massive dollars.

Do key forwards or key defenders win finals?

[Maddog37]

Ask Brian Lake.....

[bulldogtragic]

Do key forwards or key defenders win finals?

Brian Lake?? :)

I know what you're saying Az, god knows I've been saying it for years but I'm changing my thoughts. But looking at the lists of clubs that we will be competing with for a premiership, they all have numerous massive forwards. If I fast forward to a pre-lim in 4 years, I see that another very good tall defender is a not neg. I'm not saying no to Patton, in any way shape or form, I don't think well ever get him fwiw. But in terms of need, I'd be looking at a tall defender before $700,000 type contracts that would be needed to get Patton or a like type.

[always right]

Do key forwards or key defenders win finals?

Ask Brian Lake

[Remi Moses]

Couldn't see him leaving unless he gets homesick.

[Mantis]

Ask Brian Lake.....

But we had him at his peak and he didn't help us.

[Greystache]

Ask Brian Lake

You mean the guy who lost 3 prelim finals in a team with no key forwards then won a flag in a team with 2?

[jeemak]

Team efforts win finals.

[1eyedog]

You mean the guy who lost 3 prelim finals in a team with no key forwards then won a flag in a team with 2?

Barry should have played better for us and we needed someone other than Jono to kick goals for us. We were in those Prelims up to our eyeballs, it wasn't for a lack of team effort - we needed another elite finisher.

[bulldogtragic]

Barry should have played better for us and we needed someone other than Jono to kick goals for us. We were in those Perkins up to our eyeballs it wasn't for a lack of team effort - we needed another elite finisher.

A kick of Gia's being 40cm to the right and Lake not giving away a stupid free and we are in 09.
Better finishing in 08 with 5 gettable shots and were much closer in 08.

The debate for me is looking at the lists of our likely opponents and working out what their strengths are and working/thinking defensively how to cover them while developing a hard and contested footy loving mids with good runners and an attack that can kick goals. It's just a matter of prioritisation, I think KPD first. Patton going nowhere.

[Greystache]

Barry should have played better for us and we needed someone other than Jono to kick goals for us. We were in those Prelims up to our eyeballs, it wasn't for a lack of team effort - we needed another elite finisher.

Even if we had gotten over the line in those games there still would have been a bigger and tougher game to go before we won a premiership. It should be noted none of the teams we lost to in ant of those prelims were the eventual premier.

[wimberga]

I am all for us going out and getting a proper key forward.

I agree we need a key defender, but we consistently shy away from tempting big key forwards with big contracts. We may be doing this behind closed doors, but I would love to wake up one day and read "Kennel calls for Jonathon Patton" or "Western Bulldogs tempt Tex Walker with 5 year, $6m offer".

Man, I would love Tex. I'd settle for Patton, but man I would love Tex, post knee and all.

[Mofra]

They'll trade him if they are confident he won't re-sign and he demands it. They also thought they had Buddy in the gun. Patton still viable according to some reasonably reliable reports. Would still have to see it to truly believe it but I can see the attraction of him choosing the dogs. First time we've been in that boat for 20 years....
???

Anything stonger than unsubstantiated internet rumours? I'd love a Patton-type at the club but I can't see GWS letting him go.

[1eyedog]

???

Anything stonger than unsubstantiated internet rumours? I'd love a Patton-type at the club but I can't see GWS letting him go.

As per Wimberga's post above we need to offer overs and give him reason to put pressure on the club. It makes it that much harder for a club to hold onto a player if they would prefer to be somewhere else.

[wimberga]

As per Wimberga's post above we need to offer overs and give him reason to put pressure on the club. It makes it that much harder for a club to hold onto a player if they would prefer to be somewhere else.

Your right 1eyedog. I don't think I have ever seen a headline from us with us tempting a big name player with a substantial offer (unless you count $400k for Crameri). Compare that to what you see with Carlton throwing big money at Daisy, Melbourne throwing big money at Clark, and the recent big money moves for Tippet and Franklin. Even the big (but unsuccesful) offers for J.Brown and Pav over the years.

Obviously we have no idea where our salary cap sits and we seem to have really good star player retention but we have struggled/resisted to draft and develop key forwards. We either need to start drafting and developing them well, or we tempt a quality key forward with overs to get them to really consider moving.

[LostDoggy]

I wonder if GWS will be able to play all of Boyd, Patton and Cameron in the same forward line?? 3 key forwards all tall at 201, 198 and 195 respectively could be too many depending on how mobile they are and how successfully they can provide defensive pressure, also depending on which smalls are around them. Even if they do manage to play well with all three that would squeeze out guys on the fringe such as McCarthy, Jaksch, and Tomlinson (although I think he is contracted till 2015) as there is no way they can play 4 or more without costing run. IN terms of them becoming defenders not all tall forwards dream of becoming, or are suited too a key defensive roll so they can't count on any of the surplus going back, not that they need it with Corr, Frost, Mohr, Davis and Plowman already on the list.

Given this I would maybe try to keep a bit of public pressure and focus on an attempt to get Patton, maybe have it is a kind of open secret, but at the same time work on Jaksch, MacCarthy or Tomlinson in the background.

Eventually this is what clubs will need to do to break down that GWS list (or any other strong list), make multiple list targets such that clubs have to decide who to focus their big money on. This strategy may work well with good players who are on the fringe of selection at their current club.

In terms of targeting KP players on other lists we might set up a hit list as follows

Jon Patton, Adam Tomlinson (I think Patton is possibly the most vulnerable of the big three, but I like Tomlinson's work ethic and think he would be a good mobile CHF as a secondary target - I am not sure of contract status)

Ben Reid, Lachlan Keefe (again Reid being the preferred target but Keefe a secondary Target, at 204 cms and fairly quick I think he is a very serviceable tall KPD to play on giant forward/rucks - again not sure on contract status)

With this strategy, secondary targets could be set for contracted players targeting the following year, so if we target a primary objective in 2014 for 2015 we might target a secondary objective in 2014 for 2016 as the club will have already spent the money to keep their primary target meaning less money available at renewal time for target b.

Frawley should also be on our hit list but this is a bit different as he is an unrestricted free agent.

In terms of list shape I still feel we need one more KPD and one more KPF and would love flexibility to cover ruck as well. Problem is that we will face competition from other clubs in the same boat, in particular Fremantle, Carlton and possibly Geelong, although we should have more cap room then any of those three.

[Mofra]

I wonder if GWS will be able to play all of Boyd, Patton and Cameron in the same forward line?? 3 key forwards all tall at 201, 198 and 195 respectively could be too many depending on how mobile they are and how successfully they can provide defensive pressure, also depending on which smalls are around them. Even if they do manage to play well with all three that would squeeze out guys on the fringe such as McCarthy, Jaksch, and Tomlinson (although I think he is contracted till 2015) as there is no way they can play 4 or more without costing run. IN terms of them becoming defenders not all tall forwards dream of becoming, or are suited too a key defensive roll so they can't count on any of the surplus going back, not that they need it with Corr, Frost, Mohr, Davis and Plowman already on the list.
I'm not sure sure "too tall" is a problem at all.

"Too slow" or "not agile enough" may be a problem, but I'd wager that all of their talls are quicker than Gia (Cameron & Tomlinson especially). Some talls are excellent at defensive pressure anyway - see Jack Riewoldt.

Tomlinson is tipped to start rotating through the middle as on of the new breed of taller midfielders that coaches love at the moment.
Jacksh & McCarthy are the kids I'd be looking at to be squeezed out but they will then command handy compensation at the draft table if/when they do - and that seems to be part of GWS' strategy to be involved at the top of the draft table for many years to come.

[Greystache]

I wonder if GWS will be able to play all of Boyd, Patton and Cameron in the same forward line?? 3 key forwards all tall at 201, 198 and 195 respectively could be too many depending on how mobile they are and how successfully they can provide defensive pressure, also depending on which smalls are around them. Even if they do manage to play well with all three that would squeeze out guys on the fringe such as McCarthy, Jaksch, and Tomlinson (although I think he is contracted till 2015) as there is no way they can play 4 or more without costing run. IN terms of them becoming defenders not all tall forwards dream of becoming, or are suited too a key defensive roll so they can't count on any of the surplus going back, not that they need it with Corr, Frost, Mohr, Davis and Plowman already on the list.

Personally I don't see an issue with Boyd, Patton, and Cameron in the same team. While Cameron is a tall, he's not really a contested marking focal point type in the truest sense. A large percentage of his goals come from crumbing, beating an opponent on the ground, or outrunning them going back towards goal. Patton is more your true key forward, and Boyd will also do a stint through the ruck. Alarmingly I think that's just about the perfect balance assuming they can all cut it at AFL level.

[KT31]

Personally I don't see an issue with Boyd, Patton, and Cameron in the same team. While Cameron is a tall, he's not really a contested marking focal point type in the truest sense. A large percentage of his goals come from crumbing, beating an opponent on the ground, or outrunning them going back towards goal. Patton is more your true key forward, and Boyd will also do a stint through the ruck. Alarmingly I think that's just about the perfect balance assuming they can all cut it at AFL level.

I do, it not our team.;)

[LostDoggy]

???

Anything stonger than unsubstantiated internet rumours? I'd love a Patton-type at the club but I can't see GWS letting him go.

Tricky one. Unless it happens this is just another unsubstantiated rumour on a website. I've heard stuff offline from people closish but who are smart enough not to tell me anything I could or would actually post. Lets just be hopeful. And let's hope 2dogs is right about the backline. Another decent forward and great back would save us 2 years in our draft progress towards a premiership assault.