Pick 4 - what to do?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

HS guys think 1 and 2 is locked in for Boyd and Kelly. Saints still not 100% on 3 but likely to be Billings. They are tossing up between Billings and Aish. Sounds as though we will get whoever the Saints dont choose out of the two

[bulldogsthru&thru]

One of the Adelaide clubs would have to near the bottom for that to work. Then he'd be limiting his choice to one club to negotiate with.

Didnt really happen with Yeo and Polec though. Both went for 2nd rounders i think

[Mofra]

HS guys think 1 and 2 is locked in for Boyd and Kelly. Saints still not 100% on 3 but likely to be Billings. They are tossing up between Billings and Aish. Sounds as though we will get whoever the Saints dont choose out of the two
Sounds like we can't lose.

[1eyedog]

Sounds like we can't lose.

I hope it's Billings. Aish could be a gem but he may not be and Billings for mine is more versatile, can kick goals and has potential to run through the midfield as well. The quality variance is less with Billings than it appears with Aish even though Aish may be a more classier performer, at least that's how I've read the reviews.

If we miss Billings I'd like Scharenberg even though many on here think he is 4-6 rather than top 4.

[The Doctor]

My concern about Aish is the go home factor which for him, more than most, would be a very strong lure. He is from a legendary SA football family and the pressure to return home, from the SA footy community, to show his wares there would be immense.

[Scorlibo]

Just going on highlights, but I don't see all that much that I like about Aish. Looks to have a small frame which might never allow him to compete in tight at AFL level, not a great deal of pace and sketchy disposal under pressure. Can definitely see why recruiters might be putting him behind Kelly and Billings.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Just going on highlights, but I don't see all that much that I like about Aish. Looks to have a small frame which might never allow him to compete in tight at AFL level, not a great deal of pace and sketchy disposal under pressure. Can definitely see why recruiters might be putting him behind Kelly and Billings.

The highlights don't really do any of the players justice. In fact analysts say Aish is terrific under pressure with excellent disposal and pace. The only knock is his frame but he has mixed it with hardened bodies in the SANFL.

My only concern is the go home factor. But if both Billings and Aish were from SA I'd go with Aish but only just. I'm afraid the saints will beat us to Billings unfortunately

[kruder]

Gee bit rough on Toumpas! Let's give it a little time before a judgement is made, and also bit hard to judge a player's attributes in that rabble of a side.

A little yes but he is so slow for an outside player and struggles to find the footy at this stage. Im sure Aish's vid does not do him justice because its an average package in which his skills are not on display at all outside of the running goal hence why I asked if anyone had seen him play.

[LostDoggy]

Haven't seen that highlights package, but don't judge Aish by it. He's top shelf having watched four or five games of him this season.

[mjp]

How would posters feel if we went for Bontempelli?

I would feel terrible. This is one I just don't get...he is tall but not especially fast - and not that great overhead. Top 25 sure. Top 5? Wow. Is this seriously what people are thinking? I am obviously biased but Sheed, Acres and McCarthy are all significantly better than Bontempelli. So is Salem from Metro, and Taylor from Country, and - well - half the SA squad.

[mjp]

Didnt really happen with Yeo and Polec though. Both went for 2nd rounders i think

Yeo was a surprise at pick 30 a couple of years ago and went home for basically the same pick...Polec went top 10 I think but had massive holes in his game - all cream and no cake. Brisbane were in turmoil at board level and no coach was around to keep them there at the end of the season. Comparing them to what might happen to Aish in two years time is crazy.

If we don't like him we shouldn't pick him but worrying about what might happen in two years before the kid is even in the system is crazy.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If we don't like him we shouldn't pick him but worrying about what might happen in two years before the kid is even in the system is crazy.

Agreed.

Who do you like for pick 4 mjp?

[Go_Dogs]

Just going on highlights, but I don't see all that much that I like about Aish. Looks to have a small frame which might never allow him to compete in tight at AFL level, not a great deal of pace and sketchy disposal under pressure. Can definitely see why recruiters might be putting him behind Kelly and Billings.

Kelly is equally small framed but hasn't got two years of senior footy behind him like Aish has. Aish has shown a willingness to get his hands dirty and cope with strong physical pressure which will only improve as his body develops in a full time system.

I'm not sure why Aish is suddenly dropping in a lot of rankings. He's been a top three talent all year, performed well as an under age player and has dealt with being tagged in SANFL games remarkably well for such a young player.

I'm a huge Billings fan after seeing him tear a game apart at the Champs down at Alberton Oval last year, but it's also odd how much he's risen over the past few weeks after there was a lot of talk about his Champs and season generally not being up to the lofty standards he had set in 2012.

I'd be very happy with either of Aish or Billings which looks like a strong possibility, both should end up 200 game players capable of doing brilliant things on the football field.


My concern about Aish is the go home factor which for him, more than most, would be a very strong lure. He is from a legendary SA football family and the pressure to return home, from the SA footy community, to show his wares there would be immense.

Everyone in SA said the same about Bryce Gibbs when he left. I certainly see the point in it being a consideration, but if we do our due diligence and our work in development and having the club embrace our young recruits I don't see it as a major concern. From what I hear he is a very good kid.

Nathan Bassett wrote this in his post-GF report to Norwood members:

"We also say goodbye to James Aish, Orazio Fantasia and Trent Dumont with maybe a mature age player or two in the upcoming draft. They have been exceptional young men to have in our football club, setting high examples on and off the field and will be very much missed."

[Remi Moses]

Personally think its Billings or Aish.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Problem is he will do what all the Brisbane players did this year and go through the PSD if no trade can be worked out. We take him with pick 4 this year and i hazard to guess we would only receive a mid 20's pick in return if he did want to go home and that after putting 2 solid years of development into him. Dont want to go down that path.

Either way if he is suggesting such things the warning signals should be firing and he wouldnt be best available anyway as his head doesn't fit the culture of our club

Not sure I agree with you here.
Brisbane had a mass exodus of players so there was something going on that made them want out. It wasn't all 'go home' factor, might have been 'go anywhere but here' factor.
If it was just ONE player leaving they might have been able to engineer a better deal, but with so many going they were basically overwhelmed and had to take whatever they could get.

Also. None of the players who left had the reputation of an Aish as a junior (maybe Polec is close).

I still say take him if he's the best available. Players love the western oval and they love Macca. He will stay.

[Mofra]

I would feel terrible. This is one I just don't get...he is tall but not especially fast - and not that great overhead. Top 25 sure. Top 5? Wow. Is this seriously what people are thinking? I am obviously biased but Sheed, Acres and McCarthy are all significantly better than Bontempelli. So is Salem from Metro, and Taylor from Country, and - well - half the SA squad.
Every year BF falls in love with a player based on his absolute ceiling of potential - Gourdis as a top 20 pick anyone?

[always right]

Every year BF falls in love with a player based on his absolute ceiling of potential - Gourdis as a top 20 pick anyone?

I still remeber the caning the club received from posters when they didn't draft James Sellar.

[bulldogtragic]

I still remeber the caning the club received from posters when they didn't draft James Sellar.
Wasn't that a yo-yo! The club got cained, then loved after Everitt's first year. Then cained again when Everitt went poor.

[Remi Moses]

I still remeber the caning the club received from posters when they didn't draft James Sellar.

Remember the player from SA the Tiges picked up ?
Had blond hair and played a few games. Massive flop, and picked up in the Wallace era.
We were lambasted for not picking him up!

[LostDoggy]

Remember the player from SA the Tiges picked up ?
Had blond hair and played a few games. Massive flop, and picked up in the Wallace era.
We were lambasted for not picking him up!

Ben Nason?

[hotdog]

I still think the Berg is more suited to BMac's game style than any of the lightly built midfielders in Aish or Billings. I would be suprised if we passed over him TBH. Who could know though??

[Mofra]

I still think the Berg is more suited to BMac's game style than any of the lightly built midfielders in Aish or Billings. I would be suprised if we passed over him TBH. Who could know though??
Where does he play?

I have no problem with drafting a utility, as long as they can actually play at least one of those positions well enough to demand a spot in the 22 - Everitt was arguably a best 22 player who was never more than the 7th best player in any one position on the ground.

[azabob]

Where does he play?

I have no problem with drafting a utility, as long as they can actually play at least one of those positions well enough to demand a spot in the 22 - Everitt was arguably a best 22 player who was never more than the 7th best player in any one position on the ground.

Spot on Mofra.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Every year BF falls in love with a player based on his absolute ceiling of potential - Gourdis as a top 20 pick anyone?

Didn't mjp have him going in the top five or so? Not to hang you out or anything mjp :D

[Remi Moses]

Ben Nason?

Just googled it.
Cleve Hughes:eek:

[GVGjr]

Where does he play?

I have no problem with drafting a utility, as long as they can actually play at least one of those positions well enough to demand a spot in the 22 - Everitt was arguably a best 22 player who was never more than the 7th best player in any one position on the ground.

I get what you are saying it's the classic all-rounder comparison in the cricket. Do they actually bowl or bat well enough?

Scharenberg is versatile and and a very determined type. I'd imagine him being a better version of Nick Maxwell as a defender and someone that could also play forward and in the midfield. There are some comparisons to Goddard but I'm not sure they are that accurate.

[always right]

In regard to Scharenberg...do we not need a classy mid sized defender? I see potential holes in defence post Murphy, Morris and Goodes. I guess the question is whether he is worth pick 4 but I wouldn't underestimate the importance of picking up a topline half back flanker....who may be versatile for other positions.

[The Doctor]

What about a bolter like McCarthy or Salem. Both look like the real deal to me.

[GVGjr]

What about a bolter like McCarthy or Salem. Both look like the real deal to me.

That would change things around. I've mentioned McCarthy before but got the Tim Walsh comparisons as responses. Salem is quick, skillful and has great endurance.

[bulldogtragic]

If it was based on need, it'd be a mid or defender (either tall, or utility). Say Aish or Scharenberg.

If it was on best available, it would be Aish or Scharenberg. Say a mid or defender.

[chef]

If it was based on need, it'd be a mid or defender (either tall, or utility). Say Aish or Scharenberg.

If it was on best available, it would be Aish or Scharenberg. Say a mid or defender.

No Billings?

[GVGjr]

No Billings?

He's not a midfielder yet

[Hotdog60]

That would change things around. I've mentioned McCarthy before but got the Tim Walsh comparisons as responses. Salem is quick, skillful and has great endurance.

I don't think I would go near Salem's lot.:eek:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bQrmCVTacXQ/TofIEAcbYiI/AAAAAAAACXk/yrMnyUGvkSk/s1600/SalemsLot3.jpg

[bulldogtragic]

He's not a midfielder yet
This. I'm not saying he's not good, just the two mentioned are better, and happen to fit our needs a little better. He'd be fighting with Stringer for a spot, sounds good, but the reality is a top 5 pick will be playing magoos for far too long there's just too many mid sized forwards.

[chef]

Fair enough.

[mjp]

Didn't mjp have him going in the top five or so? Not to hang you out or anything mjp :D

I loved Gourdis. Had some off-field dramas I wasn't aware of though that really side-swiped his career.

[1eyedog]

I get what you are saying it's the classic all-rounder comparison in the cricket. Do they actually bowl or bat well enough?

Scharenberg is versatile and and a very determined type. I'd imagine him being a better version of Nick Maxwell as a defender and someone that could also play forward and in the midfield. There are some comparisons to Goddard but I'm not sure they are that accurate.
More like Toovey I heard, some say Enright, that would be useful!

What about a bolter like McCarthy or Salem. Both look like the real deal to me.
Good call like McCarthy, strong mark good on both sides, creative and likes to take them on.

[The Underdog]

I would feel terrible. This is one I just don't get...he is tall but not especially fast - and not that great overhead. Top 25 sure. Top 5? Wow. Is this seriously what people are thinking? I am obviously biased but Sheed, Acres and McCarthy are all significantly better than Bontempelli. So is Salem from Metro, and Taylor from Country, and - well - half the SA squad.

Have you told Sockeye that? I'm pretty sure he's the head of the Bontempelli fan club.

[jeemak]

This. I'm not saying he's not good, just the two mentioned are better, and happen to fit our needs a little better. He'd be fighting with Stringer for a spot, sounds good, but the reality is a top 5 pick will be playing magoos for far too long there's just too many mid sized forwards.

We wouldn't be drafting him for midfield output within the first two to four years of his career, would we? Just like we wouldn't be drafting Scharenberg for his versatility in his first four years, or Aish for his class in his first four years.

It's what these guys can produce after three or four preseasons that will be important. If Billings can become a goal kicking forward/midfielder of repute from the age of 22 onwards, then I would say he's precisely what we need.

It's completely cool if you like the other two over Billings. I suppose I stumble over the suggestion we don't need classy goal kickers, who will eventually be able to play midfield and still contribute on the scoreboard. Every team needs them, they're just about as rare as gun key forwards.

[bulldogtragic]

We wouldn't be drafting him for midfield output within the first two to four years of his career, would we? Just like we wouldn't be drafting Scharenberg for his versatility in his first four years, or Aish for his class in his first four years.

It's what these guys can produce after three or four preseasons that will be important. If Billings can become a goal kicking forward/midfielder of repute from the age of 22 onwards, then I would say he's precisely what we need.

It's completely cool if you like the other two over Billings. I suppose I stumble over the suggestion we don't need classy goal kickers, who will eventually be able to play midfield and still contribute on the scoreboard. Every team needs them, they're just about as rare as gun key forwards.
Yep, it's a matter of ranking.

I was on the Kelly bandwagon before it was cool. I wanted him. Then everybody caught on from the combine. So from there I would take Aish. If he's gone, it's a matter of millimetres between three for mine. Scharenberg, Billings and Bontempelli. I just see something in Bontempelli I really, really like.

So of the three, gun to my head, I'd say Scharenberg just. Then it's personal opinion/preference - I'm in the minority that say Bontempelli, but that's only an opinion.

But all that said, if we got Billings is have a massive smile on my face. But my hope would be unlike say Higgins, he will and can transition into the midfield. That's a little thing in the back of my head, drafting for things they haven't really done yet.

[jeemak]

Yep, it's a matter of ranking.

I was on the Kelly bandwagon before it was cool. I wanted him. Then everybody caught on from the combine. So from there I would take Aish. If he's gone, it's a matter of millimetres between three for mine. Scharenberg, Billings and Bontempelli. I just see something in Bontempelli I really, really like.

So of the three, gun to my head, I'd say Scharenberg just. Then it's personal opinion/preference - I'm in the minority that say Bontempelli, but that's only an opinion.

But all that said, if we got Billings is have a massive smile on my face. But my hope would be unlike say Higgins, he will and can transition into the midfield. That's a little thing in the back of my head, drafting for things they haven't really done yet.

Fair enough.

Wasn't Higgins a midfielder throughout his junior career? I though Marc Murphy rated him as the opposition best inside and outside mix (or something similar).

I'll be honest and say I won't have followed this draft through to the level you have.

[Go_Dogs]

But all that said, if we got Billings is have a massive smile on my face. But my hope would be unlike say Higgins, he will and can transition into the midfield. That's a little thing in the back of my head, drafting for things they haven't really done yet.

It's a valid point but there is always a bit of projecting involved in draft selections. Most clubs will be projecting Kelly can add a little bit of contested ability and strength to his frame. Most will project Aish as needing to develop strength too. Bontempelli an ability to play as a midfielder at AFL level, with a good mix of inside/outside, and Billings to be able to take a turn in the middle.

Some of the qualities are easier to project than others which means there is usually always a risk, besides the rare scenario where you draft a very complete player like a Cooney or Griffen, but some more easily taken than others.

Projecting Billings as a mid is an OK one for me, because he has the skill and it's really the motor and durability which are the question marks. If the durability holds up, the motor should improve enough over time. I'm sure he's getting sick of medicos looking at his knees. ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Fair enough.

Wasn't Higgins a midfielder throughout his junior career? I though Marc Murphy rated him as the opposition best inside and outside mix (or something similar).

I'll be honest and say I won't have followed this draft through to the level you have.
Yes he did play on ball at the Falcons, but there must have been some knock on his ability to transition into an afl midfield, so I guess that's why he slipped from being a lock for top 5 to our pick. There was something that happened, on draft day The Age had a feature on him being one of the highest picks and he somehow fell to 11. That's the thing about drafting, it's just such an inexact science. But fun to watch he kids get around and do their thing, I got hooked umpiring watching future afl kids do their thing.

[Throughandthrough]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/star-croweaters-must-go-in-top-four-of-the-afl-draft-says-u18s-coach-brenton-phillips/story-fnii0294-1226749186970

Star Croweaters must go in top four of the AFL draft, says U18s coach Brenton Phillips by: ANDREW CAPEL •From: The Advertiser •October 29, 2013

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/10/29/1226749/192089-c15122c2-4051-11e3-8139-2fc28a7acf56.jpg

SANFL high performance manager Brenton Phillips says Matt Scharenberg is ready for AFL football. Source: News Limited

SANFL high performance manager Brenton Phillips rates SA whiz kids James Aish and Matthew Scharenberg as top-four draft talent and says he would be amazed if one of the pair slipped down the pecking order at next month's national draft.
Speculation is rife that either Aish or Scharenberg - long considered top-four draft certainties - could be a big drifter at the November 21 draft after the selection order was finalised last week.

Phillips rates All-Australian under-18s Aish and Scharenberg as the third and fourth best prospects at the draft behind Victorians Tom Boyd and Josh Kelly.

He warned St Kilda, which owns pick three, and the Western Bulldogs (selection four) to not overlook them.

GWS is expected to secure key forward Boyd and midfielder Kelly with the first two picks.

The Saints have been linked with Victorian midfielder Jack Billings at No. 3 while the Dogs have expressed interest in both Aish - a dual Norwood premiership midfielder - and Glenelg swingman Scharenberg.

But Gold Coast (pick five) is understood to be keen on running defender Kade Kolodjashnij while Collingwood is said to be eyeing a player billed as the next Scott Pendlebury, Marcus Bontempelli, at No. 6.

Norwood youngster James Aish has already played in two SANFL flags.
This has opened the possibility of one of the star Croweaters dramatically falling to No. 7.

"The number three pick will be the interesting one, what St Kilda does with that,'' said Phillips.

"By all reports GWS are chasing Boyd and Kelly so what St Kilda does at No. 3 could shape the draft.

"Billings is a good footballer but I rate Aish and Scharenberg ahead of him.

"They are the third and fourth best players in this draft and if one of them was to slip someone would get a big bargain.

"As far as I am concerned they should be taken in the top four picks.''

Phillips refuses to split the pair, saying he is confident both will be 200-game AFL players,

But he believes the stronger-bodied Scharenberg will get to 50 games first.

"Aish is stil quite fine physically (183cm, 74kg) but in saying that he's played in two senior flags and has played against senior men for two-and-a-bit years,'' Phillips said.

"But at the next level his body is probably at a point where he's probably a 10-game player in the first couple of years until he gets stronger and better able to play a more senior role.

"Scharenberg is more physically developed (190cm and 89kg) and will probably be able to cope with the rigours of that (AFL) style of football better in the early days.''

While Aish is a hardrunning, skilful wingman, Scharenberg is the ultimate utility, capable of playing in the midfield or as a second or third tall forward or defender.

Phillips believes he will eventually settle as a big-bodied onballer.

"If you get Matty you're getting a pretty fair package,'' Phillips said.

Phillips, who led SA to this year's under-18 title, has forecast between 10 to 15 teenage Croweaters will find AFL homes at this year's drafts.

The national draft pool is not considered to be deep in talent, with some recruiters saying there might only be 60 "live'' selections - this does not include rookie elevations - and about 50 players from the country's under-18 competitions selected.

The top 10 is, as usual, strong but the pool thins out quickly after pick 30.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/10/29/1226749/199673-89e9fd3c-405f-11e3-9370-fad865867213.jpg

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Interesting article but i guess his bias takes a fair bit away from what he has said. I do agree with him though, although i think they are top 5 rather than top 4

[Twodogs]

Every time I watch another highlights reel I gets old on another player. I'vegot my list down to about 6 players at the moment.

Keep coming back to Scharenberg though.

[Front & Square]

Really hope we get bontempelli.

[Remi Moses]

Hope they pick the BEST available.
Reckon it's Aish

[SlimPickens]

Hope they pick the BEST available.
Reckon it's Aish

Agree Aish or Scharenburg. Don't see it with bontempelli watched him 3 times at the champs and wasn't overly impressed.

Still think the saints will take Aish at 3.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I lean towards Scharenberg but would be very happy with Aish or Billings.

[azabob]

Agree Aish or Scharenburg. Don't see it with bontempelli watched him 3 times at the champs and wasn't overly impressed.

Still think the saints will take Aish at 3.

If the saints do take Aish, would you still go with Scharenburg over Billings?

[LostDoggy]

If i had a dollar for each time 'Aish or Billings' or 'Aish or Scharenberg' has been posted in the last month i'd have to open another bank account :)

[Remi Moses]

Agree Aish or Scharenburg. Don't see it with bontempelli watched him 3 times at the champs and wasn't overly impressed.

Still think the saints will take Aish at 3.

Agree, Watched a game where Bontempelli came good when the heat was out of the game .

[KT31]

If i had a dollar for each time 'Aish or Billings' or 'Aish or Scharenberg' has been posted in the last month i'd have to open another bank account :)

Dibs on taking a dollar for every time Crameri has copped a mention.:D

[SlimPickens]

If the saints do take Aish, would you still go with Scharenburg over Billings?

Yes I would. Really like what I saw with Scharenburg at the champs. Too me he slots in to our back 6 for the next decade. Would not for one minute be disappointed if we ended up with Billings mind you.

[LostDoggy]

Assuming Kelly goes at two I reckon it'll come down to Billings or Aish, depending on who the Saints choose.

[Remi Moses]

I just hope and prey we don't reach on a player with "upside" or filling "a need ".

[w3design]

I get what you are saying it's the classic all-rounder comparison in the cricket. Do they actually bowl or bat well enough?

Scharenberg is versatile and and a very determined type. I'd imagine him being a better version of Nick Maxwell as a defender and someone that could also play forward and in the midfield. There are some comparisons to Goddard but I'm not sure they are that accurate.

*If* Scharenberg can develop into that tall Freo style midfielder he will be the pick of the draft (excluding Boyd). Otherwise like Mofra has said, he could become another Everitt.

Though what's his bodywork/man on man defensive skills like? That's one area Everitt was/is poor at.

[LostDoggy]

I don't get why Sharenberg has to become a midfielder for him to be a success? Goddard was a damn good utility for the saints for many years off half back and half forward. Why can't Sharenberg be a top quality half back flanker? The whole high draft pick must be/become a gun mid or gun key position seems abit overstated. Great if that's how it pans out but if the best player is an elite, best in class back pocket I'd be fine with that being our pick rather than a less good quality winger. Sharenberg can play, Aish can play, Billings can play. I think we would rate all of them above Bontempelli (who I like alot but seems much more speculative) so I don't see how we can muck this pick up unless bad luck happens or our development is poor. And our development coach just won an award and was promoted by us internally! Think we are in a good place. It's 42 and 60 that are the far bigger tests to my mind. Dalrymple is going to have a great opportunity to shine that late in this particular draft. Will be very interested in the direction he takes.

[GVGjr]

Scharenberg doesn't need to become a midfielder but it's a nice string to the bow if he can.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't get why Sharenberg has to become a midfielder for him to be a success? Goddard was a damn good utility for the saints for many years off half back and half forward. Why can't Sharenberg be a top quality half back flanker? The whole high draft pick must be/become a gun mid or gun key position seems abit overstated. Great if that's how it pans out but if the best player is an elite, best in class back pocket I'd be fine with that being our pick rather than a less good quality winger. Sharenberg can play, Aish can play, Billings can play. I think we would rate all of them above Bontempelli (who I like alot but seems much more speculative) so I don't see how we can muck this pick up unless bad luck happens or our development is poor. And our development coach just won an award and was promoted by us internally! Think we are in a good place. It's 42 and 60 that are the far bigger tests to my mind. Dalrymple is going to have a great opportunity to shine that late in this particular draft. Will be very interested in the direction he takes.
I think the boys that trained mid year (obviously) could be in the mix. Then Brown, I can't see how we would need Thorp now. At this point I think we can go harder on need. If it's KP, maybe Giles or Hourigan slips a fair bit? (Wishful thinking). Ruck, one of Lobb or Cameron will hopefully make it if we don't go with Brown. And there are plenty of mids and some I'm not sure where they will go, I.e. JKolo. But I'm hoping for a slider. 42 can just about net you an Andrew Swallow or Talia, so fingers crossed!

[LostDoggy]

I don't mind Wilson - speedy flanker from SA. He could be around at either of those picks. Would love to get Ben Brown although I'm hopeful Campbell can go on with it next year but would create some good tall forward competitiveness. Maybe stokes. But on thread; I'd be very happy with Aish or Billings ($1 in the kitty jar...)

[Maddog37]

Every time I watch another highlights reel I gets old on another player. I'vegot my list down to about 6 players at the moment.

Keep coming back to Scharenberg though.


I gets older every day.:D

[Go_Dogs]

I don't mind Wilson - speedy flanker from SA. He could be around at either of those picks.

I've mentioned him to a couple of other posters. I think he could be a good option.

[GVGjr]

Did anyone notice that two former pick 4 selections were de-listed today?
Cale Morton and Richard Tambling.

Omen? ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Did anyone notice that two former pick 4 selections were de-listed today?
Cale Morton and Richard Tambling.

Omen? ;)
Yeah, but, no, but... There's two mini draft picks so it's really pick 6

Crisis averted :)

[Greystache]

Did anyone notice that two former pick 4 selections were de-listed today?
Cale Morton and Richard Tambling.

Omen? ;)

It's really not been a happy hunting ground over the years- Tambling, Morton, Walsh were all very ordinary footballers, Hoskin-Elliot looks only an outside chance to make it, as is Morabito. In fact Farren Ray was one of the better #4's despite being only an average foot soldier.


Yeah, but, no, but... There's two mini draft picks so it's really pick 6

Crisis averted :)

Sadly BR pick #6 has an even worse record, although we could say that McDonald would have been a top 4 pick so really we have pick #7, which has historically been a gold mine ;)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's 42 and 60 that are the far bigger tests to my mind. Dalrymple is going to have a great opportunity to shine that late in this particular draft. Will be very interested in the direction he takes.

This is a good point and although next year's draft is supposed to bat a lot deeper, a recruiter who can find one or two good players late in this draft will be incredibly valuable.

I'm hoping for Conlon or JK with our second pick. The former is so ridiculously agile with great hands and I'd rather him than Brown, whilst I have been banging on about adding another key defender for a while now so JK would be a good option.

[GVGjr]

Yeah, but, no, but... There's two mini draft picks so it's really pick 6

Crisis averted :)

I suppose the caveat is that they were both at their 2nd clubs not their first

[LostDoggy]

Sadly BR pick #6 has an even worse record, although we could say that McDonald would have been a top 4 pick so really we have pick #7, which has historically been a gold mine ;)

You missed the memo. Pick 6 officially joined the cool pick club from 2010.

Conca, Wingard, Macrae

Pick 6 ; gets midfield slicks!

[Throughandthrough]

I don't mind Wilson - speedy flanker from SA. He could be around at either of those picks. Would love to get Ben Brown although I'm hopeful Campbell can go on with it next year but would create some good tall forward competitiveness. Maybe stokes. But on thread; I'd be very happy with Aish or Billings ($1 in the kitty jar...)

I've heard "mixed" reports on Wilson. Best avoided I feel

[Twodogs]

I gets older every day.:D



It's better than the alternative. ;)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

FWIW Callum Twomey thinks pick 4 is still up in the air for us. Out of: Aish, Scharenberg, Kolodjashnij, Bontempelli, Billings. Not narrowing it down but nothing obvious at the moment

[Remi Moses]

I hope they go Aish.
Two years of senior footy has to be an advantage.
I don't wanna hear of the experts being " surprised " player x went so early.

[Scorlibo]

I hope they go Aish.
Two years of senior footy has to be an advantage.
I don't wanna hear of the experts being " surprised " player x went so early.

Yet Macrae and Stringer were both surprise selections to an extent.

I'm warming to Kolodjashnij, looks to be a super kick whilst having exceptional pace, a good frame and good height. If the recruiters think he can develop into a tall, powerful midfielder ala Nat Fyfe then I'm sold.

[LostDoggy]

Yet Macrae and Stringer were both surprise selections to an extent.

I'm warming to Kolodjashnij, looks to be a super kick whilst having exceptional pace, a good frame and good height. If the recruiters think he can develop into a tall, powerful midfielder ala Nat Fyfe then I'm sold.

The KK option may also include JK who's likely spot is somewhere around our pick 42 & 60.

[boydogs]

Yet Macrae and Stringer were both surprise selections to an extent.

Really? I thought they were both firmly in the mix

[jeemak]

MacRae maybe, Stringer no way.

For the former there were jungle drums banging after his U18 GF appearance, if I recall. Understand the latter was injured badly during the year, but he was touted as having the talent to be a no. 1 pick.

[Remi Moses]

Yet Macrae and Stringer were both surprise selections to an extent.

I'm warming to Kolodjashnij, looks to be a super kick whilst having exceptional pace, a good frame and good height. If the recruiters think he can develop into a tall, powerful midfielder ala Nat Fyfe then I'm sold.

Stringer's injury was the only problem with him going possibly one.
The talent manager at Bendigo said ability wise Stringer was the best player drafted.
Toumpas and O'rourke( who we were linked with for a long period )were gone at our pick

[Happy Days]

Landsberger confident in Aish as per Twitter

[Scorlibo]

MacRae maybe, Stringer no way.

For the former there were jungle drums banging after his U18 GF appearance, if I recall. Understand the latter was injured badly during the year, but he was touted as having the talent to be a no. 1 pick.


Stringer's injury was the only problem with him going possibly one.
The talent manager at Bendigo said ability wise Stringer was the best player drafted.
Toumpas and O'rourke( who we were linked with for a long period )were gone at our pick

If I recall correctly Macrae's name only began to be mentioned as a top 10 pick very close to draft day and Stringer also was for a long time not considered as being in that company purely because of his injury.

All I was saying is that for a guy like Kolodjashnij, he would be less of a reach than either Stringer or Macrae were last year.

[mjp]

Stringer's injury was the only problem with him going possibly one.
The talent manager at Bendigo said ability wise Stringer was the best player drafted.
Toumpas and O'rourke( who we were linked with for a long period )were gone at our pick

** cough ** Jaeger O'Meara ** cough **

[jeemak]

If I recall correctly Macrae's name only began to be mentioned as a top 10 pick very close to draft day and Stringer also was for a long time not considered as being in that company purely because of his injury.

All I was saying is that for a guy like Kolodjashnij, he would be less of a reach than either Stringer or Macrae were last year.

Stringer was always in that company, the only thing holding him back was potential for his injury to be an issue in the first year or two of his AFL career. The risk was in his immediate development potential. He was rated as good if not a little bit better than any player in the draft, so essentially he slipped to five.

MacRae rocketed up the list of players likely to be drafted top ten or even sooner after the U18 GF. His output this year suggests it was a good decision and not a reach to pick him at six. IMO, he was the best performed out of our U18 draftees.

Kolodjashnij's footage shows an absolute laser of a left boot, and an ability to get the ball though he didn't seem to be too worried about manning up in all of the footage I saw. I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement on if we should take him.

[westdog54]

** cough ** Jaeger O'Meara ** cough **

The way I read the sentence O'Meara and Crouch wouldn't be factored in, only players from the draft.

[Scorlibo]

Stringer was always in that company, the only thing holding him back was potential for his injury to be an issue in the first year or two of his AFL career. The risk was in his immediate development potential. He was rated as good if not a little bit better than any player in the draft, so essentially he slipped to five.

MacRae rocketed up the list of players likely to be drafted top ten or even sooner after the U18 GF. His output this year suggests it was a good decision and not a reach to pick him at six. IMO, he was the best performed out of our U18 draftees.

Kolodjashnij's footage shows an absolute laser of a left boot, and an ability to get the ball though he didn't seem to be too worried about manning up in all of the footage I saw. I haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement on if we should take him.

I don't mean to drag this on for too long, because it's not really that important, but having had a look at the first four phantom drafts from last year I could find with a google search...

A couple of people had coined onto our interest in Jackson, he was tipped to go: 5, 5, 7 and 11 by the four phantoms.

For Stringer: 9, 12, 12 and 14.

This would seem to indicate that neither were talked about as any chance of going before our picks, and that we reached up to grab Stringer at least. I know that Stringer was regarded as one of the most talented players in the crop before his leg break but the concerns thereafter should not be discounted and to an extent we're still waiting to see whether he will overcome them and regain the speed and leap which he is said to have possessed.

[Remi Moses]

** cough ** Jaeger O'Meara ** cough **

Just relaying what the Pioneers talent managers thoughts.

[Remi Moses]

I don't mean to drag this on for too long, because it's not really that important, but having had a look at the first four phantom drafts from last year I could find with a google search...

A couple of people had coined onto our interest in Jackson, he was tipped to go: 5, 5, 7 and 11 by the four phantoms.

For Stringer: 9, 12, 12 and 14.

This would seem to indicate that neither were talked about as any chance of going before our picks, and that we reached up to grab Stringer at least. I know that Stringer was regarded as one of the most talented players in the crop before his leg break but the concerns thereafter should not be discounted and to an extent we're still waiting to see whether he will overcome them and regain the speed and leap which he is said to have possessed.
A week or so before the draft we were linked with Plowman and O'rourke, and with GWS taking them we were getting Macrae and Jake.
I'm hoping we just pick up the fourth best player and by reports it's Billings or Aish.

[jeemak]

I don't mean to drag this on for too long, because it's not really that important, but having had a look at the first four phantom drafts from last year I could find with a google search...

A couple of people had coined onto our interest in Jackson, he was tipped to go: 5, 5, 7 and 11 by the four phantoms.

For Stringer: 9, 12, 12 and 14.

This would seem to indicate that neither were talked about as any chance of going before our picks, and that we reached up to grab Stringer at least. I know that Stringer was regarded as one of the most talented players in the crop before his leg break but the concerns thereafter should not be discounted and to an extent we're still waiting to see whether he will overcome them and regain the speed and leap which he is said to have possessed.

I meant he slipped to 5 due to injury.

Emma Quayle's a pretty good judge and has a tendency to get a lot of things right about the draft, she had MacRae and Stringer at 5 and 6.

I can't wait until Stringer has three preseasons under his belt. Once he becomes stronger, but leaner he's going to be very quick and very hard to match up on.

But you're right, it's not important and this thread is about this year!

Having watched the Aish and Scharenberg footage again, I'd be super happy if we ended up with either. Each of those two, and Billings have traits any side would want. As does KK.

We're going to get a ripper kid this year.

[bornadog]

For the WOOF phantom draft I went with Sharenberg and think he is right up there this year. I like the look of Aish, but suspect he will be gone before we get a chance.

I have gone through the highlight tapes on AFL.com,.au and really like the look of Sharenberg.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm gonna predict Aish slides to 6.

[LostDoggy]

With the rise of KK from top 15'er, to potential top 5'er on a needs basis, would it be too much of a jump to take KK at 4?

Our needs are all over the park, but in the next one-three years Morris, Goodes and Murphy will be gone. Talia, JJ and Roughy are promising, but there's still gaps there.

I like KK rolled into JK at pick 42 also. I don't think anyone will take one without the other, and with both being mid/tall defenders they'll compliment our needs and themselves.

[Remi Moses]

Agree on needs all over the park,
Not massive on the family reunion scheme though.

[mjp]

I guess they are nominally mid-sized defenders but are quite different players.

If KK is picked top 5 he selecting club is clearly projecting him as a mid. He did a bit of that in the carnival vs wa and was ok in a secondary receiver role. To be honest, he plays a bit like Luke McDonald in that he can win the ball but seems happiest behind the ball, cutting angles and positioning for hbr's. Follows up well too...often gets 2 and 3 possessions in a passage of play.

His brother is more - or at least seemed that way in the champs - of a solid, one on one defender who doesn't try to do what he can't...just plays within himself. Might end up a player as there is certainly a role for his type of player in each team but I would have thought rookie not pick 42.

[Twodogs]

Are the brothers really close? Could another club take JK thinking KK might walk on his first club after a couple of years development to play at his bother's club?

[comrade]

Are there any concerns on Aish's kicking ability? I've seen him in one live match only and the rest in highlights but he can shank it badly on occasion - there are at least 2 or 3 examples in his highlight tape.

I do like that he uses both feet but he doesn't seem to have that really penetrating, raking kick like KK does (albeit KK usually has more time to hit up targets as he plays behind the ball).

[1eyedog]

FWIW Callum Twomey thinks pick 4 is still up in the air for us. Out of: Aish, Scharenberg, Kolodjashnij, Bontempelli, Billings. Not narrowing it down but nothing obvious at the moment

Only because we don't know what is going to happen at St. Kilda. We'd have plan A, B, C and D regarding who we want.

I still like McCarthy and wish we had pick 5-10 somewhere so we could get him :D

He's a great mark, good at ground level, has good vision and uses both sides well.

Be good to get some feedback on him other than reviews and youtube (i.e. someone more in the know).

[bornadog]

Only because we don't know what is going to happen at St. Kilda. We'd have plan A, B, C and D regarding who we want.

I still like McCarthy and wish we had pick 5-10 somewhere so we could get him :D

He's a great mark, good at ground level, has good vision and uses both sides well.

Be good to get some feedback on him other than reviews and youtube (i.e. someone more in the know).

MJP has seen him play a bit and maybe able to chip in with his thoughts.

[1eyedog]

MJP has seen him play a bit and maybe able to chip in with his thoughts.

That's what I was hoping. He's raw and doesn't have the core strength, preseasons under his belt but if we are prepared to be patient... I'm not sold on Campbell as a long-term option and I'd hate to see the second best KPP available become a gun elsewhere.

Most on here seem to think we should take best available or a classy mid.

[LostDoggy]

I think JMac has stated a couple of times that we'll be going with "best available" at 4. Most pundits seem to have Aish and Billings around 3-4 so I'd be surprised if we didn't end up with one of those two. I think we're going to get a pretty damn promising player which ever way we go!

[1eyedog]

I think JMac has stated a couple of times that we'll be going with "best available" at 4. Most pundits seem to have Aish and Billings around 3-4 so I'd be surprised if we didn't end up with one of those two. I think we're going to get a pretty damn promising player which ever way we go!

Seems that way, thought I'd throw him in the mix as he looks like going 5-10 so he can play. Getting pretty cyclical with 'best available' and Aish or Billings discussions.

maybe someone other than Aish or Billings is 'best available' to Macca.

[mjp]

MJP has seen him play a bit and maybe able to chip in with his thoughts.

My thoughts are that he is a marvel who won me a championship game and who would have won us another if he didn't break his leg...of the wa kids though I would still pick Acres first.

[The Underdog]

Seems that way, thought I'd throw him in the mix as he looks like going 5-10 so he can play. Getting pretty cyclical with 'best available' and Aish or Billings discussions.

maybe someone other than Aish or Billings is 'best available' to Macca.

Assuming GWS take Boyd & Kelly as expected, I'd be amazed if it's not one of Aish, Billings or Scharenberg. The Saints will take one and then it's who we like best of the two left. May not make for good discussion but it's pretty unlikely we go outside that scenario.

[The Cowshed]

I rate Scharenburg and Billings...don't want us to take Aish...another Sam Power type. We take too many light bodied, can't kick far enough or run quick enough types.

[Go_Dogs]

I rate Scharenburg and Billings...don't want us to take Aish...another Sam Power type. We take too many light bodied, can't kick far enough or run quick enough types.

Maybe it's my deep Norwood roots and having grown up watching his uncle dominate, but I just don't see the issue with Aish that appears to be running hot at this late stage. I really feel whoever gets him is getting a very high quality young man who'll become a very good AFL player.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Seems Bontempelli has really come into the mix for our pick 4. No clear cut favorite though. Scharenburg, KK, Billings, Aish and now Bontempelli all in the mix. Would love Bontempelli but at the same time he's not the safest option...I really don't have a preference at this stage. My mind changes each day

[Remi Moses]

I'm horrified the club isn't taking the safe option.
Is Bontempelli a reach at 4?
Surely to hell Aish or Billings are safer bets at 4?

[Remi Moses]

Maybe it's my deep Norwood roots and having grown up watching his uncle dominate, but I just don't see the issue with Aish that appears to be running hot at this late stage. I really feel whoever gets him is getting a very high quality young man who'll become a very good AFL player.

I don't get it either. We seem to look hard for faults, when in fact bringing him into a good environment with his class is beneficial.
A player with upside and feeling a need is more risky

[GVGjr]

I'm horrified the club isn't taking the safe option.
Is Bontempelli a reach at 4?
Surely to hell Aish or Billings are safer bets at 4?

I've been exchanging tweets with Brett Anderson from Inside Football who believes we are linked to Aish and Kolodjashnij.

[GVGjr]

Seems Bontempelli has really come into the mix for our pick 4. No clear cut favorite though. Scharenburg, KK, Billings, Aish and now Bontempelli all in the mix. Would love Bontempelli but at the same time he's not the safest option...I really don't have a preference at this stage. My mind changes each day

What appeals to you about Bontempelli? To me is he a touch slow and I can't work out what position he will fill at the senior level. I'd be interested in why so many are interested in him?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I've been exchanging tweets with Brett Anderson from Inside Football who believes we are linked to Aish and Kolodjashnij.

Interesting, everyone seems to have a different opinion of who we're contemplating. I still think we should be looking closely at Scharenberg.

Who would you prefer out of Aish and KK GVG?


What appeals to you about Bontempelli? To me is he a touch slow and I can't work out what position he will fill at the senior level. I'd be interested in why so many are interested in him?

I can't answer for others, but I like Bontempelli's agility, decision making and raking left foot. These traits should help him transition to the top level combined with his height. His lack of pace (and consistency in big games) are the two concerns IMO.

[The Doctor]

According to Brett Anderson on twitter it's between Aish & KK

[GVGjr]

Interesting, everyone seems to have a different opinion of who we're contemplating. I still think we should be looking closely at Scharenberg.

Who would you prefer out of Aish and KK GVG?


I'd lean towards Kolodjashnij but Aish is a good player. KK I see as a replacement for Murphy,
Like you, Scharenberg appeals

[LostDoggy]

Billings....., daylight......, Sharenberg or Aish for me. Think Sharenberg fits our needs to best of the three but its pick 4 and has to be best available. Billings is just such a class act we'd be mad not to take him if available. I'm well aware half-forward is probably our least required but of all the "plays like" I've read I rekon the link between his play style and that of Nathan Brown is pretty much bang on. Has the ability to do those OMG Stringer things on a regular basis. We will be gutted if he's available and we pass in a few years I suspect.

There is abit of comment about Dalrymple reaching and I think it's fair. So far his pick history is:

Howard/Tutt - Reach and fail
Libba/Wallis - father son does not count
Campbell/Dickson - good gets but came with inside knowledge so not attributing to Dalrymple
Smith - Reach and tick (good job!)
Stringer - Reach and maybe - if his fitness returns and he gets past the leg it's a probably tick
Macrae - Less of a reach, call it a stretch, working out ok

Think the juries still out

[Mofra]

What appeals to you about Bontempelli? To me is he a touch slow and I can't work out what position he will fill at the senior level. I'd be interested in why so many are interested in him?
Bontempelli (from the limited stats & vision I've seen) scream Everitt to me - it seems "enormous upside" is BF-recruiter speak for "athlete".

Still don't understand how guys like Billings, Aish & Scharenberg - after spending all year as concensus top 4 picks - suddenly drop after draft camp. The only aspect that has changed is interviews, with the Berg set to be interviewed this week if media reports are correct.

[LostDoggy]

Bontempelli (from the limited stats & vision I've seen) scream Everitt to me - it seems "enormous upside" is BF-recruiter speak for "athlete".

Still don't understand how guys like Billings, Aish & Scharenberg - after spending all year as concensus top 4 picks - suddenly drop after draft camp. The only aspect that has changed is interviews, with the Berg set to be interviewed this week if media reports are correct.

This is what happened with Jack Mac wasn't it? Finished the season well and rocketed up the draft table. I like him, but i'd have enjoyed Ollie Wines more.

[Mofra]

This is what happened with Jack Mac wasn't it? Finished the season well and rocketed up the draft table. I like him, but i'd have enjoyed Ollie Wines more.
Macrae was more a "Callan Ward" selection for mine - rapid rate of imporvement through the year (means high teachability) combined with performances throughout the year.
I don't see Macrae as a reach - nor Stringer considering we'd flagged interest in him all year.

For me 'a reach' would be the Everitt & Howard selections - every pre-draft and media phantom had Everitt mid/late round 2, while even Howard's mum may have had to google him when his name was read out.

[bornadog]

I still think its gotta be out of Aish, Sharenberg and Billings for the fourth round pick. As Mofra says Bontempelli does not impress.

[chef]

I still think its gotta be out of Aish, Sharenberg and Billings for the fourth round pick. As Mofra says Bontempelli does not impress.

Doubt they'll be available then mate:D

[bornadog]

Doubt they'll be available then mate:D

Haha nice pick up:D

[bulldogtragic]

I still think its gotta be out of Aish, Sharenberg and Billings for the fourth round pick. As Mofra says Bontempelli does not impress.
Marcus is a top 10 lock, and has the chance of top 5. Pretty harsh to say he doesn't impress. He was the best performed at this combine for hitting targets by foot (29/30 I think). A 190cm inside/outside mid, with ok-ish pace, great endurance, great attitude, solidly built player who is footballer first/ athlete second who has amazing accuracy by hand and foot. He be a replacement for Boyd, except he hits targets and runs hard both ways.

I agree Aish is a gun, but Bontempelli is a good kid with a bright future. He wouldn't be the worst selection.

(Yes, he's not a pure mid, but I think he get there. Yes, there are knocks on his pace, but when you hit most targets by foot, the metres gained is better than a quick kid who runs more but is less accurate. I see him in the Freo mids, Watson etc style of massive mids.)

[bornadog]

Marcus is a top 10 lock, and has the chance of top 5. Pretty harsh to say he doesn't impress. He was the best performed at this combine for hitting targets by foot (29/30 I think). A 190cm inside/outside mid, with ok-ish pace, great endurance, great attitude, solidly built player who is footballer first/ athlete second who has amazing accuracy by hand and foot. He be a replacement for Boyd, except he hits targets and runs hard both ways.

I agree Aish is a gun, but Bontempelli is a good kid with a bright future. He wouldn't be the worst selection.

(Yes, he's not a pure mid, but I think he get there. Yes, there are knocks on his pace, but when you hit most targets by foot, the metres gained is better than a quick kid who runs more but is less accurate. I see him in the Freo mids, Watson etc style of massive mids.)

Is he better than Boyd, Aish, Billings, Sharenberg, Kelly, KK or McCarthy?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

What appeals to you about Bontempelli? To me is he a touch slow and I can't work out what position he will fill at the senior level. I'd be interested in why so many are interested in him?

As others have said, its his agility, accuracy off the boot, his leap and endurance. He is a fantastic link-up player but also wins his own ball (his inside game is improving) and his height allows him to play all over the ground. I actually thought he had decent pace. He has massive potential still being only 17 and he came on massively over the last portion of this year. Has a basketball background which i like in footy players. They seem to read the play better. Jack Macrae is similar in this regard. I actually would prefer him over KK and Scharenburg, however over Aish/Billings im not so sure. I would hate to reach at pick 4 and it seems Bontempelli may be a bit of a gamble there. Having said that if we did take him i wouldnt be unhappy as i would trust the club have done the work on him.

[mjp]

He was the best performed at this combine for hitting targets by foot (29/30 I think).


Let's not mention the kicking test...you can't even say it is 'the same' for everyone as the judging is so subjective. It is a good result but I don't think anyone is seriously saying he is the best kick in the draft.

[bulldogtragic]

Is he better than Boyd, Aish, Billings, Sharenberg, Kelly, KK or McCarthy?
Boyd, no.
Kelly, no.
Aish, probably not, but his die hard supporters could mount a case.
Billings, no.
Scharenberg, probably not, but again a case can be made.
KK, this is a personal decision, could go either way. If GCS were so linked to Bontempelli than KK would slide to 6 or 7.
McCarthy, yes. I'm not sure too many scouts even have him top 10. If we are sticking to best available surely he is not in contention, as for need possibly. *Cue references to pundits with MCCarthy top 10. :)

As an aside, as far as talls go, it quite like Darcy Gardiner who would compliment our back line perfectly. Id have him before McCarthy But I wouldn't take him at 4 either.

[Remi Moses]

What I saw of Bontempelli reminds me of Everitt.Safe option for mine

[Remi Moses]

Marcus is a top 10 lock, and has the chance of top 5. Pretty harsh to say he doesn't impress. He was the best performed at this combine for hitting targets by foot (29/30 I think). A 190cm inside/outside mid, with ok-ish pace, great endurance, great attitude, solidly built player who is footballer first/ athlete second who has amazing accuracy by hand and foot. He be a replacement for Boyd, except he hits targets and runs hard both ways.

I agree Aish is a gun, but Bontempelli is a good kid with a bright future. He wouldn't be the worst selection.

(Yes, he's not a pure mid, but I think he get there. Yes, there are knocks on his pace, but when you hit most targets by foot, the metres gained is better than a quick kid who runs more but is less accurate. I see him in the Freo mids, Watson etc style of massive mids.)

If Aish is a gun surely the club has to go there?
Upside, X factor, good fit, basketball background doesn't cut it.

[bulldogtragic]

If Aish is a gun surely the club has to go there?
Upside, X factor, good fit, basketball background doesn't cut it.
All my posts say I rate Aish top 4.

I'm only saying I see bright future for Marcus, I'd be happy with him (ie I wouldn't slit my wrists) and to the direct quote that he wasn't impressive, I wanted to question it.

Realistically, I'm happy who ever we go with. It's not a clear cut top end IMO and there seems to be A LOT of movement in the opinions of a few since the combine. Bring it on!

[Remi Moses]

All my posts say I rate Aish top 4.

I'm only saying I see bright future for Marcus, I'd be happy with him (ie I wouldn't slit my wrists) and to the direct quote that he wasn't impressive, I wanted to question it.

Realistically, I'm happy who ever we go with. It's not a clear cut top end IMO and there seems to be A LOT of movement in the opinions of a few since the combine. Bring it on!

Fair enough BT. Gotta splitting headache thinking about all this.

[bulldogtragic]

Fair enough BT. Gotta splitting headache thinking about all this.
Just remember, who ever we pick is the next club champion. Whoever they are! :)

[bornadog]

Just remember, who ever we pick is the next club champion. Whoever they are! :)

Just like Tim Walsh :D

[bulldogtragic]

Just like Tim Walsh :D

Exactly. Boy was I following the wrong messiah! :)

But playing against his dads team got some media for the game. His one game. Was it a thumb injury or something like that?

[bornadog]

Exactly. Boy was I following the wrong messiah! :)

But playing against his dads team got some media for the game. His one game. Was it a thumb injury or something like that?

Yes. He got the ball, kicked a goal with his first kick, I thought wow great start - only for the ump to call the ball back:D

[Happy Days]

I'm too young to remember, but seriously what was the deal with Walsh?

I know he was injured a lot and sort of forced on Clayton, but he can't have been that terrible the whole time? What was the reaction like when he was drafted?

[LostDoggy]

Please, please don't curse our pick with Walsh references people. Thank god we aren't considering a tall forward. Pick 4 has history enough :)

[bulldogtragic]

I'm too young to remember, but seriously what was the deal with Walsh?

I know he was injured a lot and sort of forced on Clayton, but he can't have been that terrible the whole time? What was the reaction like when he was drafted?
I was stoked. I thought the club was landing a top 5 tall forward (well we were in theory). Then injuries and lots of them, think Wiliams. I was backing him until he finally got sacked. From memory he was accepted into the MFB wasn't he and played at Collingwood VFL.

[Pickenitup]

A bit of Talk On twitter That we are firming On Bontempelli Would be very tough to pass up On Aish.

[bulldogtragic]

A bit of Talk On twitter That we are firming On Bontempelli Would be very tough to pass up On Aish.
Thought I should be clear I haven't been on twitter for a while now :)

But as a discussion point, do the Maccas think the future is big bodied mid fielders, and an elite kicking Bontempelli could be that. Not saying either way, but if we are to follow the Freo model, then I can see that Bontempelli has a chance at 4.

Who by the way would replace Boyd, and be a big improvement to the side as he has more natural ability than Boyd.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

But as a discussion point, do the Maccas think the future is big bodied mid fielders, and an elite kicking Bontempelli could be that. Not saying either way, but if we are to follow the Freo model, then I can see that Bontempelli has a chance at 4.

I'd say this is a big consideration. Given that Libba, Smith, Hrovat and Dahl are small then the argument has some weight to it.

I think it's also partly why some are going cold on Aish. Having said all that, if it's a bigger bodied player we prefer then why wouldn't it be Scharenberg?

[bulldogtragic]

I'd say this is a big consideration. Given that Libba, Smith, Hrovat and Dahl are small then the argument has some weight to it.

I think it's also partly why some are going cold on Aish. Having said all that, if it's a bigger bodied player we prefer then why wouldn't it be Scharenberg?
I think it's the ability to transition to the AFL midfield. Admitedly Bontempelli has played forward and midfield, but at least he has shown he can do it in the midfield at his given level. For all the hype on Scharenberg, he has never really done it consistently as far as I am aware. Bontempelli wants to be a midfielder where as Scharenberg seems to like utility role a little more. If it's about replacing Murphy, maybe Scharenberg, if it's about replacing Boyd, then it's Bontempelli. And he's a newer better version of Boyd.

[Scorlibo]

And he's a newer better version of Boyd.

Maybe purely in terms of physical attributes, but let's not sell the skipper short: a champion of this footy club.

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe purely in terms of physical attributes, but let's not sell the skipper short: a champion of this footy club.
Yep. Talking about the football skills in isolation, not the leadership he offers not just the club, but the AFL more generally.

[boydogs]

A bit of Talk On twitter That we are firming On Bontempelli Would be very tough to pass up On Aish.

That's what I'm hearing as well. We should have traded down pick 4 if true.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Nine sleeps to go. Wake me when we have Billings please.

[Twodogs]

Yes. He got the ball, kicked a goal with his first kick, I thought wow great start - only for the ump to call the ball back:D

Who did the free go to? Walsh kicked a goal with his only kick in AFL footy.

[jeemak]

Thought I should be clear I haven't been on twitter for a while now :)

But as a discussion point, do the Maccas think the future is big bodied mid fielders, and an elite kicking Bontempelli could be that. Not saying either way, but if we are to follow the Freo model, then I can see that Bontempelli has a chance at 4.

Who by the way would replace Boyd, and be a big improvement to the side as he has more natural ability than Boyd.

Wouldn't Wallis and Liberatore's combined efforts be enough to replace Boyd? I'd have thought we'd be after some outright class as a priority, irrespective of whether whomever we pick up plays across half back or half forward with some spurts in the middle.

[Twodogs]

Wouldn't Wallis and Liberatore's combined efforts be enough to replace Boyd? I'd have thought we'd be after some outright class as a priority, irrespective of whether whomever we pick up plays across half back or half forward with some spurts in the middle.


Whoever. Whomever would be used for a multiple number of people. If we were picking up more than one player with pick 4 and planning to pay them all at once we could say whomever.

[Remi Moses]

Wouldn't Wallis and Liberatore's combined efforts be enough to replace Boyd? I'd have thought we'd be after some outright class as a priority, irrespective of whether whomever we pick up plays across half back or half forward with some spurts in the middle.

Would have thought so.

[bulldogtragic]

Wouldn't Wallis and Liberatore's combined efforts be enough to replace Boyd? I'd have thought we'd be after some outright class as a priority, irrespective of whether whomever we pick up plays across half back or half forward with some spurts in the middle.
What I was thinking when I posted that was the team towards the end of the year in which Boyd was in. Mid term I'd see Marcus taking that spot in the 22 that Boyd had at the end of this year.

[1eyedog]

Marcus is a top 10 lock, and has the chance of top 5. Pretty harsh to say he doesn't impress. He was the best performed at this combine for hitting targets by foot (29/30 I think). A 190cm inside/outside mid, with ok-ish pace, great endurance, great attitude, solidly built player who is footballer first/ athlete second who has amazing accuracy by hand and foot. He be a replacement for Boyd, except he hits targets and runs hard both ways.

I agree Aish is a gun, but Bontempelli is a good kid with a bright future. He wouldn't be the worst selection.

(Yes, he's not a pure mid, but I think he get there. Yes, there are knocks on his pace, but when you hit most targets by foot, the metres gained is better than a quick kid who runs more but is less accurate. I see him in the Freo mids, Watson etc style of massive mids.)

Everitt-clone for some and Watson-clone for others. Depends how you look at it really. I'm not in a position to comment either way but I've heard the Watson comparisons. Good footy brain, navigates traffic, big but a bit cumbersome for a mid. Has excellent disposal unlike Watson but apparently has his dedication and work ethic.

I'd still prefer Billings, Scharenberg, KK, Aish in that order. Love to see us get McCarthy, just think he has something special but it's not going to happen.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Everitt-clone for some and Watson-clone for others. Depends how you look at it really. I'm not in a position to comment either way but I've heard the Watson comparisons. Good footy brain, navigates traffic, big but a bit cumbersome for a mid. Has excellent disposal unlike Watson but apparently has his dedication and work ethic.

I'd still prefer Billings, Scharenberg, KK, Aish in that order. Love to see us get McCarthy, just think he has something special but it's not going to happen.

Exactly. Everitt clone is a bit misguided considering Everitt had the ability to be a very good footballer. Its more his mind that was the issue. Bontempelli is supposedly very dedicated and has terrific work ethic

[bornadog]

Exactly. Everitt clone is a bit misguided considering Everitt had the ability to be a very good footballer. Its more his mind that was the issue. Bontempelli is supposedly very dedicated and has terrific work ethic

I am sure Bontempelli is going to be a good footballer but I don't believe he is a top 4. I hope we don't take the risk and play it safe.

[bulldogtragic]

Exactly. Everitt clone is a bit misguided considering Everitt had the ability to be a very good footballer. Its more his mind that was the issue. Bontempelli is supposedly very dedicated and has terrific work ethic
Also, making huge assumptions here...

If we pass on Bontempelli he will go two picks later, such is the expectation of him
If we passed on Everitt he would have been there at least one round later, such the opinion on him.

Bontempelli is a natural footballer first and athlete second IMO. IMO Everitt was the opposite.

We seemed to be the only club who saw him better than 30 (from snippets as I recall), Bontempelli won't drop past Collingwood. I think he's a cousin or some sort of family link to Luke Ball, but don't hold me to that.

[Axe Man]

I think he's a cousin or some sort of family link to Luke Ball, but don't hold me to that.

He is Dal Santo's cousin, Italian surnames provide the clue. ;)

[bulldogtragic]

He is Dal Santo's cousin, Italian surnames provide the clue. ;)
Thanks, I knew it was a mid, and Collingwood were coming to Mind. Maybe my brain wiped out the part where Ross Lyon marginalised him into going to Collingwood for a second rounder and he was still at the Saints. Oh.... Del Santo just moved. My mind must have wiped out the part where theSaints sold whatever was left of their soul for a pick in the 20's.

Or I just got it wrong! :)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I am sure Bontempelli is going to be a good footballer but I don't believe he is a top 4. I hope we don't take the risk and play it safe.

i tend to agree. He might be a bit of a reach at 4 but in saying that i trust the club will make the right call. If they believe he is the best pick at 4 i will back them.

[LostDoggy]

6 more sleeps.

[bulldogtragic]

6 more sleeps.
Isn't it the 21st?

[LostDoggy]

I just saw the 18th on the AFL website. I originally thought the same.

EDIT, that's the final list lodgements before the draft. My bad.

In that case, Aish or Shazz, or Aish or Billings, or Aish, Billings or Shazz (few more dollars for the pot).

[bulldogtragic]

I just saw the 18th on the AFL website. I originally thought the same.

EDIT, that's the final list lodgements before the draft. My bad.

In that case, Aish or Shazz, or Aish or Billings, or Aish, Billings or Shazz (few more dollars for the pot).
I wonder if we make any late cuts on the 18th?

[LostDoggy]

The AFL website, on the indicative draft order, has us using rookie upgrades from pick 60.

It actually has West Coast using rookie upgrades from their pick 49....

[josie]

I've never played football and I know he is skinny, however I think Aish if available is whom we should pick. I think he is classy and we'd be hard pushed to pick someone else prior. He also seems like a nice young man and we might pick up a few SA followers seeing as he is from SA football royalty. Pick 4 should be used on best available IMO.

[bulldogtragic]

The AFL website, on the indicative draft order, has us using rookie upgrades from pick 60.

It actually has West Coast using rookie upgrades from their pick 49....
Surely there's a kid at pick 60 with some level of potential worthy of selection.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Maybe purely in terms of physical attributes, but let's not sell the skipper short: a champion of this footy club.

A great physical skill that Boyd has is his reaction by hand. He can block a kick with a reflex reaction by hand better than anyone else. He can handpass perfectly and powerfully with his left hand. Not game changing skills but skills non the less. He is much more than a modestly skilled ex rookie that has used mental toughness to get the best out of himself.

[LostDoggy]

Surely there's a kid at pick 60 with some level of potential worthy of selection.

They'll probably look to see who's left. if there's no kids who've slipped through, then they'll trigger the rookie upgrades.

Looks like quite a few clubs will plunder the rookie draft, not wanting to put speccies on the primary list.

[Mofra]

They'll probably look to see who's left. if there's no kids who've slipped through, then they'll trigger the rookie upgrades.

Looks like quite a few clubs will plunder the rookie draft, not wanting to put speccies on the primary list.
Didn't we have some Prudden-like smoky that none of the BF phantom drafters know about lined up for our pick #60?

I'd expect 3 live selections, 1 rookie upgrade (Goodes) and 1 rookie pick this year

[bornadog]

Surely there's a kid at pick 60 with some level of potential worthy of selection.

would we consider someone in the preseason draft

[bulldogtragic]

would we consider someone in the preseason draft
Maybe, I'd love to know the answer to your question about anyone training with us.

[bornadog]

Maybe, I'd love to know the answer to your question about anyone training with us.

We normally have someone. Maybe a VFL player?

[LostDoggy]

Didn't we have some Prudden-like smoky that none of the BF phantom drafters know about lined up for our pick #60?



Yep, recall an article a week or so back but can't find it or remember the kids name.

FWIW i've liked what i've seen of Hugh Beasley who'd be around that selection/rookie.

Appears a similar player to our Talia, with the odd kicking (although i thought Talias' vastly improved last year), love his attack on the ball and vision, reading of the game is somewhat reminiscent of Lake.

Some comments:

Oakleigh Charger Hugh Beasley has been a pillar in defence for his TAC Cup side. The 191cm defender excels at playing a shutdown role on opposition talls, most famously doing a terrific job on Eastern key forward Tom Boyd. Beasley reads the play very well and this helps him beat his direct opponent and also roll off his man and affect other contests. Beasley is a traditional defender, he follows the man he is responsible for very closely and maintains body contact well. Beasley is also very willing to do the team thing and complete the 1%ers, something that coaches will love about him. The two knocks and deficiencies with Beasley are to do with his kicking and his size. Beasley’s kicking is not poor but it often lets him down and he is not damaging when rebounding.

PLAYER PROFILE – HUGH BEASLEY

D.O.B: 12/11/1995

HEIGHT: 191cm

WEIGHT: 88kg

SANFL CLUB: Oakleigh Chargers
GRASSROOTS CLUB: Trinity Grammar

STRENGTHS: Always gives 100%, close-checking defender, Spoils well,

WEAKNESSES: Consistency, Kicking, Not big enough

PLAYS LIKE: Jason Blake (STK)

http://madmondayshow.com/2013/09/09/player-profile-hugh-beasley/

--------

The inside word
Rated the fastest player at the Oakleigh Chargers despite measuring in at 192cm, Beasley looked like enjoying a bumper 2013 before dislocating his knee cap. A very aggressive tall defender with excellent closing speed, he had the better of expected No.1 pick Tom Boyd early in the season and thrives on one-on-one battles. He's strong in the air and having run a blistering 2.89 seconds for the 20m sprint at the state combine, he's got the acceleration to stick with any leading forward.


http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-20/hugh-beasley ---- with vision


--------

Anyone seen much of him live?

[Bulldog Revolution]

If we pass on Bontempelli he will go two picks later, such is the expectation of him
Bontempelli won't drop past Collingwood.

We will obviously find out, but I'll be very, very surprised if the Pies take him, I see Bontempelli falling outside the top 12.

Scharenberg, Bontempelli and Sheed will be the sliders in my eyes more likely to be 10-20.

[Cyberdoggie]

Goodes has now been elevated (or will be at the draft).

So that gives 3 live picks in the draft

[bornadog]

We will obviously find out, but I'll be very, very surprised if the Pies take him, I see Bontempelli falling outside the top 12.

Scharenberg, Bontempelli and Sheed will be the sliders in my eyes more likely to be 10-20.

Sheed will be picked by West Coast

[GVGjr]

While Billings or Aish are the likely focus for us and I don't think we can do too much wrong with a number of players.

We will get a good player.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

MRM Hugh Beasley seems a likely prospect. I find it incredible that he would last until pick 60. Fast and 192 cm, had the better of Tom Boyd, and is good in the air. Dislocated kneecap is a worry but it's not the same as Cooney who cracked his but apparently it's the delicate tissue behind the kneecap that's the problem. I wonder what the doctors are saying about Beasley's recovery.

[Remi Moses]

6 more sleeps.

Having a few all nighters?:)

[Axe Man]

MRM Hugh Beasley seems a likely prospect. I find it incredible that he would last until pick 60. Fast and 192 cm, had the better of Tom Boyd, and is good in the air. Dislocated kneecap is a worry but it's not the same as Cooney who cracked his but apparently it's the delicate tissue behind the kneecap that's the problem. I wonder what the doctors are saying about Beasley's recovery.

I have dislocated my kneecap 3 times, the last being 8 or 9 years ago and I am still playing footy without any issues. It shouldn't be a problem as you would assume he has done/is doing the right rehab for it.

[Axe Man]

Bulldogs rule out drafting ex-Hawk Thorp (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-13/bulldogs-rule-out-thorp)


Goodes has now been elevated (or will be at the draft).

So that gives 3 live picks in the draft

There is a quote from the coach in the above article suggesting we will only use 2 live picks:


McCartney saying on Wednesday the Dogs' selections of four and 42 (with 60 likely to be used for a rookie elevation) in next Thursday's NAB AFL Draft will be used on young talent.

[Mofra]

There is a quote from the coach in the above article suggesting we will only use 2 live picks:
That is surprising - we're adding two rookies or waiting until the PSD for a final list spot?

[Axe Man]

That is surprising - we're adding two rookies or waiting until the PSD for a final list spot?

I don't think we have the space for 2 rookies?

So far: 5 players out (Addison, Cross, Lower, Markovic, Veszpremi), 2 players in (Crameri, Darley), leaves 3 spots vacant across the entire list.

With Goodes being elevated to the primary list, along with Crameri, Darley and picks 4 & 42, that leaves 1 spot which can either be a fifth rookie like 2013, or a spot on the primary list.

[LostDoggy]

We had a spare spot last year on the primary.

[Axe Man]

We had a spare spot last year on the primary.

I realise that, which is why I said the final spot can be either a rookie or a primary list player. There is still no way I can see that we can add 2 rookies unless we delist someone else.

[Cyberdoggie]

I realise that, which is why I said the final spot can be either a rookie or a primary list player. There is still no way I can see that we can add 2 rookies unless we delist someone else.

And all the current ones seem to be with the club training or over in the U.S. altitude camp.

[The Underdog]

I realise that, which is why I said the final spot can be either a rookie or a primary list player. There is still no way I can see that we can add 2 rookies unless we delist someone else.

I wouldn't be surprised if they leave a primary list spot open. Provides an incentive for the rookies over pre-season if needed and they probably have someone in mind that they think will be available in the rookie draft.

[Happy Days]

I wouldn't be surprised if they leave a primary list spot open. Provides an incentive for the rookies over pre-season if needed and they probably have someone in mind that they think will be available in the rookie draft.

Agree with the intent, think its a good idea.

However, are any of the rookies really worth a spot on the main list? Austin is okay but he's the sort of guy that is suited to the rookie list, as he only plays if someone goes down. Other than that, it's not exactly an inspiring group. I think Redpath is rated internally as a backman (Talia on radio during the year said he was "next in line" to debut before his injury), but I don't see it.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Sheed will be picked by West Coast

You may well be right, but I wonder if they might overlook him

I think what Melbourne do at 9 is going to be very interesting, do they have a guy they want or will they grab at a sliding Scharenberg?

Sheed could be their pick at 11 but they might go Lennon or Scharenberg if available

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Emma Quale via Twitter thinks pick 4 is between Aish and Bontempelli

[Cyberdoggie]

Emma Quale via Twitter thinks pick 4 is between Aish and Bontempelli

On Mark Fine's show tonight they all think we are going for Bontempelli now.
Apparently we have interviewed him a few times recently as well.

Aish and Scharenberg look like slipping to Collingwood.

[bornadog]

On Mark Fine's show tonight they all think we are going for Bontempelli now.
Apparently we have interviewed him a few times recently as well.

Aish and Scharenberg look like slipping to Collingwood.

If Aish and Sharenberg slip to Collingwood, they would have had the best draft period of any club in a long time (bar GWS and GC)

[Twodogs]

Bomtemelli must have really aced the Fine Young Man Criteria.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Gee, as much as I do like Bontempelli, taking him over Scharenberg and Aish would be a very bold move.

[BulldogBelle]

Let's just take Aish. Even if he is small bodied, we've got enough young talent that need games to bide him some time anyway. Please

[Remi Moses]

Let's just take Aish. Even if he is small bodied, we've got enough young talent that need games to bide him some time anyway. Please

Agree St 07, Plenty of good footballers with skinny bodies.
If we're going to replica other sides look at the premiers
Rioli, Hill , and Smith.Freo have Stephen Hill and Danyle Pierce .

[The Underdog]

Let's just take Aish. Even if he is small bodied, we've got enough young talent that need games to bide him some time anyway. Please

Aish'll be playing senior AFL regularly before Bontempelli whatever the size.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Sheed will be picked by West Coast

Ignore my previous post, Im now starting to think Brisbane may pounce on Sheed at 7

I would have been a hopeless clairvoyant

[Mofra]

Quigley's mock draft is up now, always good reading - he thinks Kelly will get to pick 4, has Aish at 12.

[Scorlibo]

Quigley's mock draft is up now, always good reading - he thinks Kelly will get to pick 4, has Aish at 12.

I pretty much agree with everything he's said on Aish, I can't see why there is so much hype either.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2013-mock.1041146/

[kruder]

There seems to be a lot of love out there for Aish on the bulldog blogs but I think its more due to the fact we are long inside mids and the a fact he was mentioned as a potential number 1 pick at some point( People love to think they are getting a bargain when buying anything).

It was the same with Toumpas( they look like clones to me) last year but on face value I'd take Macrae Stringer Hunter and Hrovat ahead of him now. Hence you would have to back our staff in on recent performances but I'd love to bet that Sheed/Billings will be a far better player than Aish at AFL level.

[dadsgirl16]

Having read Quigley I think I am on the Marcus bandwagon..although Kelly sounds just fine also

[LostDoggy]

Is Bontempelli really 194cm now per the AFL website? That would interest me more if he could be a skillful tall forward/tall mid role? He can kick a goal and the extra height makes him a bit more interesting given our list profile.

I would still prefer Billings; could happily take him pick 1 personally but I can see why the Aish/Sharenberg/Bontempelli debate is taking place at pick 4.

[divvydan]

Is Bontempelli really 194cm now per the AFL website? That would interest me more if he could be a skillful tall forward/tall mid role? He can kick a goal and the extra height makes him a bit more interesting given our list profile.

I would still prefer Billings; could happily take him pick 1 personally but I can see why the Aish/Sharenberg/Bontempelli debate is taking place at pick 4.

Supposedly measured in at 194cm at the combine but there was a general feeling that the combine overstated a lot of heights and he was previously listed at 191cm so maybe 192cm is more likely to be accurate. He is, however, not yet 18 so he could still be growing.

[Remi Moses]

There seems to be a lot of love out there for Aish on the bulldog blogs but I think its more due to the fact we are long inside mids and the a fact he was mentioned as a potential number 1 pick at some point( People love to think they are getting a bargain when buying anything).

It was the same with Toumpas( they look like clones to me) last year but on face value I'd take Macrae Stringer Hunter and Hrovat ahead of him now. Hence you would have to back our staff in on recent performances but I'd love to bet that Sheed/Billings will be a far better player than Aish at AFL level.

Bit early to be forming an opinion on Toumpas
The only form we have is Junior careers, where as Aish and Scharenberg have played against big bodies,and performed well.
Might be on to something with the burger going to GWS,as they need players to impact straight away. The whole "go home" factor is minimal and we haven't lost a player to SA since Koster( solid player, but no star)

[Happy Days]

Bit early to be forming an opinion on Toumpas


I know it's early but wow did he look terrible last year.

For comparisons sake, it's only ~8 games into the NBA season and it's painfully obvious that the first overall pick in their last draft was a bust.

[Throughandthrough]

I pretty much agree with everything he's said on Aish, I can't see why there is so much hype either.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2013-mock.1041146/

The Quigley character admits to not ever seeing Aish play in the SANFL, but has looked at some of his stats...... I'd love to have Aish at the club. Could be as good as Cooney was in 3 or 5 years.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The Quigley character admits to not ever seeing Aish play in the SANFL, but has looked at some of his stats...... I'd love to have Aish at the club. Could be as good as Cooney was in 3 or 5 years.

Not sure Aish is (or has the capacity?) to be as explosive and powerful as Cooney though? Seems a silky Dal Santo type for mine.

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure Aish is (or has the capacity?) to be as explosive and powerful as Cooney though? Seems a silky Dal Santo type for mine.
Kelly or Bontempelli... I'm in heaven. :) :)

But I've been on Kelly for 12 months, so I'm sticking fat!

[LostDoggy]

Aish is the 2013 version of Farren Ray and his career will be similar - 200 games and a six pack of brownlow votes.

[Remi Moses]

He looked average in a god awful team with no midfield support.
Nobody at this stage should be assessing a player on one season

[Remi Moses]

Aish is the 2013 version of Farren Ray and his career will be similar - 200 games and a six pack of brownlow votes.

Wasn't an overly strong draft though. Kepler Bradley Kane Tenace and of course Adam Cooney:D

[kruder]

Not sure Aish is (or has the capacity?) to be as explosive and powerful as Cooney though? Seems a silky Dal Santo type for mine.

Agree Coons was a jet, Aish looks average pace at best considering he is an outside player. The positive wish Aish sounds like he is a good decision maker, has more time, a natural footballer, always big pluses in my books.

[Remi Moses]

The Quigley character admits to not ever seeing Aish play in the SANFL, but has looked at some of his stats...... I'd love to have Aish at the club. Could be as good as Cooney was in 3 or 5 years.

Not as explosive as Cooney ( limited vision I've seen )
Derek Hine puts playing against senior bodies and performing well as an advantage at draft time. I'll put the house on the pies nabbing Aish and The Burger.

[chef]

I feel like a bit of a tart at this time of year....falling in and out of love with so many players.

First Billings, then Scharenberg, then Aish and now Bontempelli has won my heart.

[w3design]

Bontempelli hmm...

Gee I'd like Kelly to slide :o

[josie]

Amazing how variable the phantom drafts are on Kelly and Aish (some love one or the other, or they are sliders).

I'm completely confused, although I thought Aish's highlight reel looked better than Kelly's. Hey - I'm putting my trust in JMac that we choose wisely.

Scharenburg is pretty high in a lot of the drafts too, as is Billings. It is all so confusing yet fascinating. Not sure Bontempelli punt is wise however again I'm assuming our recruiters have done the homework. A week of waiting never seemed so long....

Also I thought Toumpas was not that bad, just a gawd awful team. Will be interesting to see if Roos can be the messiah for them.

[LostDoggy]

Not as explosive as Cooney ( limited vision I've seen )
Derek Hine puts playing against senior bodies and performing well as an advantage at draft time. I'll put the house on the pies nabbing Aish and The Burger.

Big call!!! You saying we take Bontempelli then?

[boydogs]

I pretty much agree with everything he's said on Aish, I can't see why there is so much hype either.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2013-mock.1041146/

Very interesting remarks on our preference for Victorians.

[Remi Moses]

Big call!!! You saying we take Bontempelli then?

I'm saying if we do take him, the pies will pounce on both SA boys .
I'm hoping and preying we take the smartest option and don't fall for this athletic, upside, ceiling type.
We've been down this road before with Everitt and Howard, and tried to be to clever by half.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Very interesting remarks on our preference for Victorians.

I found that interesting too.

I wonder if there's anything to it? You really wouldn't have thought so, but if we leap for Bontempelli instead of Scharenberg/Aish then it becomes an intriguing question.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe:

Bontempelli is on the young side for this draft. The next is expected to be bumper by most initial reports. Perhaps we may look to compliment him with next years talent moreso with this being a shallow draft ?

[jeemak]

Very interesting remarks on our preference for Victorians.


I found that interesting too.

I wonder if there's anything to it? You really wouldn't have thought so, but if we leap for Bontempelli instead of Scharenberg/Aish then it becomes an intriguing question.

Unless he has some inside knowledge on the club and our drafting strategy then I'll take it with a grain of salt (not saying he doesn't have those insights, I'm just not aware of who is he is and whether he does).

We just this off season managed to take the leading goal scorer for the last three years away from Essendon on a larger deal than others were willing to give him.

Also, we have a pretty solid recent record of keeping our SA based players when we've wanted to keep them, while we've lost good players to franchise teams on the back of poor list management rather than a lack of cash (I understand our last offer was trumped in each case, though if we had have stitched them up earlier we'd have been able to secure them).

If each of the SA players showed interest in heading home from their behavior in the interview processes, then I'd say we'd have put a line through them rather than worrying about not being able to meet their potential financial demands in 5-6 years time.

If we look at last year we took Jack, Jake and Nathan with our first picks and these were all players we wanted to land due to their talents first and foremost (as far as I'm aware.......I've been wrong before, of course).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Agree St 07, Plenty of good footballers with skinny bodies.
If we're going to replica other sides look at the premiers
Rioli, Hill , and Smith.Freo have Stephen Hill and Danyle Pierce .

The player with the most number of games ever was skinny. Skinny can be strong; to quote Peter Thompson, five time British Open champion about skinny Robert Allenby (who hits it a mile) "he has the sinewy strenth of a British yoeman."
A ditty I learnt at St Monicas Primary School in Footscray when I was five or six:
"Fat and Skinny had a race
Up and down the fireplace
Skinny said it wasn't fair
Cos he lost his underwear."

[boydogs]

I found that interesting too.

I wonder if there's anything to it? You really wouldn't have thought so, but if we leap for Bontempelli instead of Scharenberg/Aish then it becomes an intriguing question.

He makes some interesting points beyond the go home factor - the way Vic kids have to play for multiple sides and therefore adjust to different dynamics. Sounds strange when contrasted with Aish's success in the senior SANFL, but it's odd that when rumours started about Aish going back to SA we went to Bontempelli and not KK, Scharenberg or McCarthy.

[Nineteenfiftyfour]

Hi guys new member here , just want to add my vote for AISH, lovely mover with great balance, right now strong outside runner and our couching staff should be able to turn that outside run into a lethal weapon as soon as 2014, and given time im hoping Aish can develop an adequate inside game as he gets stronger , i get this feeling that the sides who pass on Aish will regret their decision in future years

[Remi Moses]

He makes some interesting points beyond the go home factor - the way Vic kids have to play for multiple sides and therefore adjust to different dynamics. Sounds strange when contrasted with Aish's success in the senior SANFL, but it's odd that when rumours started about Aish going back to SA we went to Bontempelli and not KK, Scharenberg or McCarthy.

I read an article on Aish in Inside Football where he states his parents would rather him stay in Adelaide, as most parents would
But they accept it won't happen and are excited for him.
I'll back our culture and coaching in keeping him here.
We've got a great record in keeping our South Aussies.

[Remi Moses]

Hi guys new member here , just want to add my vote for AISH, lovely mover with great balance, right now strong outside runner and our couching staff should be able to turn that outside run into a lethal weapon as soon as 2014, and given time im hoping Aish can develop an adequate inside game as he gets stronger , i get this feeling that the sides who pass on Aish will regret their decision in future years

Welcome aboard and good post
Most kids coming through are outside players, and we should back our systems in .
With good teaching I'm sure Aish could develop an inside game, and like yourself I fear we could make a major error here.
Apparently one recruiter has Bontempelli ranked 17th and one has him ranked as possible the best player in the draft!
Just think it says the kid's wildly inconsistent, and at pick 4 that is way to risky

[Dry Rot]

I found that interesting too.

I wonder if there's anything to it? You really wouldn't have thought so, but if we leap for Bontempelli instead of Scharenberg/Aish then it becomes an intriguing question.

The great Cats side that Macca helped build - where did most of them come from?

[Go_Dogs]

The great Cats side that Macca helped build - where did most of them come from?

Quite a few SA boys in those line ups.

[jeemak]

He makes some interesting points beyond the go home factor - the way Vic kids have to play for multiple sides and therefore adjust to different dynamics. Sounds strange when contrasted with Aish's success in the senior SANFL, but it's odd that when rumours started about Aish going back to SA we went to Bontempelli and not KK, Scharenberg or McCarthy.

I find it really strange, if the scuttlebutt is to be believed, new draftees who are rated highly are beginning to tout their future preferences to be at home rather than where the best opportunity might lie - prior to being drafted.

It's an elite national competition, and it seem extremely foolhardy (and potentially narrow minded) for anybody entering it to think they can prosper within it through limiting their career options before they arrive at its door step.

If a player immediately states he wants to remain in his home state, and things don't go well for him through injury, attitude, opportunity due to talent or otherwise, where does he go after he fails the first time? What kind of idiot would advise or allow anyone to be so narrow in their thought processes?

If you enter the draft with a closed attitude towards moving away from home (I understand there might be extreme circumstances in which players must do so) you're a dill.

[Dry Rot]

Quite a few SA boys in those line ups.

OK, thanks. So it's not something Macca learnt at Geelong.

I wonder if the Lions's return homes have spooked a few clubs?

[Twodogs]

OK, thanks. So it's not something Macca learnt at Geelong.

I wonder if the Lions's return homes have spooked a few clubs?

Good point. It could well be more of a factor this year more than most.

[Remi Moses]

Wouldn't have thought so to be honest.
I think there were more extenuating circumstances with some of those players leaving.
Collingwood picked up 3 SA players 12 months back, and in particular Adelaide being close to Melb.

[jeemak]

OK, thanks. So it's not something Macca learnt at Geelong.

I wonder if the Lions's return homes have spooked a few clubs?

I reckon the Lions issue would have made a few clubs review their player management areas, for sure.

From all reports, the gap between the old school attitudes of the coaching staff at Brisbane and maybe some of the playing group caused the exodus. We had a similar issue last year, though not as prominent, when the club reviewed the Libba incident and found there was a distinct gap between the though processes and attitudes of the younger crew versus the older crew and the coaching team.

Things must have been pretty tough at Brissy this year.

[bornadog]

I reckon the Lions issue would have made a few clubs review their player management areas, for sure.

From all reports, the gap between the old school attitudes of the coaching staff at Brisbane and maybe some of the playing group caused the exodus. We had a similar issue last year, though not as prominent, when the club reviewed the Libba incident and found there was a distinct gap between the though processes and attitudes of the younger crew versus the older crew and the coaching team.

Things must have been pretty tough at Brissy this year.

Gen y = mummies boys:D

[jeemak]

Gen y = mummies boys:D

Poor old Gen Y.

The sad thing about those sorry folk is that they're only as good as the generations that taught them.

Never a hope in hell. :)

[boydogs]

I find it really strange, if the scuttlebutt is to be believed, new draftees who are rated highly are beginning to tout their future preferences to be at home rather than where the best opportunity might lie - prior to being drafted.

It's an elite national competition, and it seem extremely foolhardy (and potentially narrow minded) for anybody entering it to think they can prosper within it through limiting their career options before they arrive at its door step.

If a player immediately states he wants to remain in his home state, and things don't go well for him through injury, attitude, opportunity due to talent or otherwise, where does he go after he fails the first time? What kind of idiot would advise or allow anyone to be so narrow in their thought processes?

If you enter the draft with a closed attitude towards moving away from home (I understand there might be extreme circumstances in which players must do so) you're a dill.

We're not talking about guys just hoping to be picked up, it's top end talent that are pretty confident of a solid career but don't want to play for a basket case or interstate. If a player wants to go to a particular club, the club can instruct them to interview poorly in the hopes they will drop, which means the player goes where they wanted and their new club is better off from snapping up a bargain.

[jeemak]

We're not talking about guys just hoping to be picked up, it's top end talent that are pretty confident of a solid career but don't want to play for a basket case or interstate. If a player wants to go to a particular club, the club can instruct them to interview poorly in the hopes they will drop, which means the player goes where they wanted and their new club is better off from snapping up a bargain.

But at the same time they put off a number of suitors due to their attitude for the long term, potentially.

I don't really know much about the prospective AFL players psyche like you do gogriff, and I never will. But, is it really a good thing for draftees or the AFL in general for clubs to encourage kids not to be broad in their aspirations, and accepting of a potential future where they might be just a little bit out of their comfort zones?

It's a business of course. But, at some stage some reality and some perspective needs to come into the minds of the best young talent who are guaranteed to be drafted. I don't see how draft manipulation is the best place to start for them.

[boydogs]

But at the same time they put off a number of suitors due to their attitude for the long term, potentially.

I don't really know much about the prospective AFL players psyche like you do gogriff, and I never will. But, is it really a good thing for draftees or the AFL in general for clubs to encourage kids not to be broad in their aspirations, and accepting of a potential future where they might be just a little bit out of their comfort zones?

It's a business of course. But, at some stage some reality and some perspective needs to come into the minds of the best young talent who are guaranteed to be drafted. I don't see how draft manipulation is the best place to start for them.

It's not necessarily as sinister as that. Ollie Wines last year wanted to play in Melbourne, it wouldn't have taken any manipulation for that to come across. FWIW I think we need to do a Port and take Aish.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/family-comes-first-for-ollie-wines-but-it-took-more-time-to-adjust-to-footy-life-for-mum-and-dad/story-fni5f0at-1226718070495

[LostDoggy]

I think the kids that pull a Grundy are probably few and far between. Think the only reason Aish is dropping is because Billings is clearly star caliber, Boyd and Kelly are nobrainers and Bontempelli is both very young and very very tall with both mid/forward prospects. If, and that's the issue, he gets consistent he has much that would appeal to recruiters so I can see why we are tempted. I can also see why recruiters are divided: I wouldn't take him personally but I not paid to make the call. Sharenbergs feet may or may not be a disaster so that's a punt. Can see why Brissie might go McCarthy but again that's a very subjective call.

Outside of Boyd I can find lots of arguments for lots of selection orders.

Just hope Billings gets to us...

[Remi Moses]

It's not necessarily as sinister as that. Ollie Wines last year wanted to play in Melbourne, it wouldn't have taken any manipulation for that to come across. FWIW I think we need to do a Port and take Aish.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/family-comes-first-for-ollie-wines-but-it-took-more-time-to-adjust-to-footy-life-for-mum-and-dad/story-fni5f0at-1226718070495

Aish has never implied he'll come home.( not publicly)

Inside Football had the burger sending out a message of returning home.
Aish said in an article his family had "accepted the fact " of not playing in Adelaide.

[stefoid]

They reckon GWS picks victorians because if there is a go home factor there will be competition for their services in terms of recompense, particularly with vic teams being on the bottom of the ladder around now.

IF you go SA or WA its a two-horse race with much worse draft picks to pay with.

makes perfect sense.

If Asih or Berger want to go back to SA in two years, its basically a waste of a top 5 pick and two years of development, because you wont be getting one in return.

Its definately a factor to be heavilly considered

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sounds like Bontempelli has really firmed for pick 4. Is between him and Aish but all reports are its going to be Bonts.

The intriguing bit of news at the moment though is the saints are really keen on scharenburg now. For them its between Billings and Scharenburg. I think Billings is still the favourite but if they took Scharenburg, would the dogs then take Billings for sure? This scenario hasnt really been put through in the media as BIllings was always almost certain to be a Saint. This has changed in the last week though. Are we certain to take Billings if available?

[bornadog]

Sounds like Bontempelli has really firmed for pick 4. Is between him and Aish but all reports are its going to be Bonts.

The intriguing bit of news at the moment though is the saints are really keen on scharenburg now. For them its between Billings and Scharenburg. I think Billings is still the favourite but if they took Scharenburg, would the dogs then take Billings for sure? This scenario hasnt really been put through in the media as BIllings was always almost certain to be a Saint. This has changed in the last week though. Are we certain to take Billings if available?

I would prefer Billings then Sharenberg before Bont.

[azabob]

I would prefer Billings then Sharenberg before Bont.

Where would Aish fit in the above?

[1eyedog]

I would prefer Billings then Sharenberg before Bont.

But you think the club needs a Scharenberg more than a Billings?

[Remi Moses]

I would prefer Billings then Sharenberg before Bont.

+ 1
Wondering whether Richardson has put his two bobs with the Saints.

[LostDoggy]

But you think the club needs a Scharenberg more than a Billings?

Scharenberg for structure (we need a couple more very good quality young defenders) but Billings for class. Gee he does some ripper things. Billings is the very high quality of the two in my eye. Be very happy with either if them though.

Billings >>>>Sharenberg>>>>>>>>>>>Bontempelli>>Aish

for me

[bornadog]

Where would Aish fit in the above?

Before Bontempelli

[bornadog]

But you think the club needs a Scharenberg more than a Billings?

I didn't say that?

I would take, anyone of Aish Boyd, Billings, Kelly, Sharenberg (in Alphabetical order). It will depend on what GWS and Aints do.

[1eyedog]

I didn't say that?

I would take, anyone of Aish Boyd, Billings, Kelly, Sharenberg (in Alphabetical order). It will depend on what GWS and Aints do.

I thought you selected Scharenberg at 4 in the phantom draft hence the question. I just checked and you did so do you see him as important to our structure after the retirements of Shaggy and eventually Murph? I took Billings at 9!

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Anyone catch Emma Quayle of Triple M this morning? I only caught the end of it but it sounded as though she mentioned us and pick 4 and perhaps a differing view between coach and recruiters?

[bornadog]

I thought you selected Scharenberg at 4 in the phantom draft hence the question. I just checked and you did so do you see him as important to our structure after the retirements of Shaggy and eventually Murph? I took Billings at 9!

ok, fair enough, that was the phantom and before I knew about possible foot issues with Sharenberg.