Scott Watters

[Remi Moses]

Word is he is on very thin ice !
Apparently he and (1st round pick for Tim Boyle)Pelchen have a testy relationship.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't like either.

Thanks for the pep up Remi :)

[azabob]

According to Johnny Ralph - Seaford isn't big enough for the both of em!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Didn't he make a call at the B&F about the club "not accepting mediocrity?"

I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere, and it didn't go down well at all.

[Topdog]

I thought it was Pelican that was on thin ice.

[Mofra]

Watters was always on a hiding to nothing - Lyon jumped ship because he knew what would happen

[Remi Moses]

Didn't he make a call at the B&F about the club "not accepting mediocrity?"

I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere, and it didn't go down well at all.

Mark Fine on SEN said he should be sacked a few weeks back.
Pretty ordinary from Watters

[azabob]

Mark Fine on SEN said he should be sacked a few weeks back.
Pretty ordinary from Watters

Why was it ordinary?

[AndrewP6]

Why was it ordinary?

Agree,if the coach is saying they shouldn't accept mediocrity he's saying they should be striving for the ultimate success. Sounds pretty good to me.

[Happy Days]

Just hearing the phrase "accepting mediocrity" makes me want to put my head through a wall.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Agree,if the coach is saying they shouldn't accept mediocrity he's saying they should be striving for the ultimate success. Sounds pretty good to me.

It's a stupid cliche that serves no purpose other than to insult those that did good work with the club before he got there. They did play in three Grand Finals, it's not as if they've been 'accepting mediocrity".

[AndrewP6]

It's a stupid cliche that serves no purpose other than to insult those that did good work with the club before he got there. They did play in three Grand Finals, it's not as if they've been 'accepting mediocrity".

Disagree, it's just a fairly new coach trying to convey that he wants them to aim high. Yes they've played in finals but like us, that was long ago.

[Twodogs]

Disagree, it's just a fairly new coach trying to convey that he wants them to aim high. Yes they've played in finals but like us, that was long ago.


It's also one of the first things a coach says when he walks in the door and one of the last things he says just before he gets the tap on the shoulder.

Very few workers at any football club club accept mediocrity. They aim high and work hard towards goals. Watters is just mouthing platitudes for the masses. He'd be better off letting his actions speak for him.

[Topdog]

He sounds like Neeld when he was talking. Neeld and Macca had almost the same message but you could never believe Neeld when he spoke. It was almost as though he didn't believe it himself.

[bulldogtragic]

I find Watters very, very, very unlikeable.

That is all.

[Maddog37]

It's a stupid cliche that serves no purpose other than to insult those that did good work with the club before he got there. They did play in three Grand Finals, it's not as if they've been 'accepting mediocrity".


Agree with this. If he wants them to aim high then say, we need to aim high. Insulting to past people the way he has said it.

[AndrewP6]

Agree with this. If he wants them to aim high then say, we need to aim high. Insulting to past people the way he has said it.

I just don't see it that way at all.

[Mofra]

Disagree, it's just a fairly new coach trying to convey that he wants them to aim high. Yes they've played in finals but like us, that was long ago.
It also implies anyone there previously was "accepting mediocrity" - if I was part of an organisation that fell agonisingly short of the ultimate prize and some blow-in walked through the door and started pointing fingers and ranting about "accepting mediocrity", I'd be mighty pissed.

It is simply a term is used by absolute tools to try and make some non-existing point.

[Topdog]

Disagree, it's just a fairly new coach trying to convey that he wants them to aim high. Yes they've played in finals but like us, that was long ago.

So they aimed low previously? If he changed the comment a bit to something like
"We will have a lot of kids playing next year and it is important to instil in them that this club doesn't accept mediocrity"

than he wouldn't come across as such a tosser.

[ledge]

I agree it is an insult considering where Ross Lyon got them and he has yet to get near that height, if it was a successful coach like Malthouse or Matthews it would have gone down better but not a new coach with no success as a senior coach in AFL level

[bulldogtragic]

How would it be if Macca said this word for word at last years B&F?

[AndrewP6]

How would it be if Macca said this word for word at last years B&F?

Don't get me started. When he was appointed, there was lots of talk of having to learn to play "the right way", which was a clear shot at Eade and Co., and that seemed to be alright.

[AndrewP6]

So they aimed low previously? If he changed the comment a bit to something like
"We will have a lot of kids playing next year and it is important to instil in them that this club doesn't accept mediocrity"

than he wouldn't come across as such a tosser.

Sure he could've worded it a bit better, but he was also addressing the off field indiscretions (setting fire to a person, anyone?)...that club has shown in recent times they've got a fair bit of work to do. He was a bit careless in his wording, but hardly worth all the vitriol here (or there)

[AndrewP6]

It also implies anyone there previously was "accepting mediocrity" - if I was part of an organisation that fell agonisingly short of the ultimate prize and some blow-in walked through the door and started pointing fingers and ranting about "accepting mediocrity", I'd be mighty pissed.

It is simply a term is used by absolute tools to try and make some non-existing point.

Three years ago.

[azabob]

Don't get me started. When he was appointed, there was lots of talk of having to learn to play "the right way", which was a clear shot at Eade and Co., and that seemed to be alright.

Is this why you are struggling to warm to McCartney?

[chef]

Don't get me started. When he was appointed, there was lots of talk of having to learn to play "the right way", which was a clear shot at Eade and Co., and that seemed to be alright.

Maybe Macca just thinks his is a better way to play if we want success.

I doubt it was a personal attack.

[AndrewP6]

Maybe Macca just thinks his is a better way to play if we want success.

I doubt it was a personal attack.

I read it that way, and FWIW I doubt Watters' was too.

[AndrewP6]

Is this why you are struggling to warm to McCartney?

That was a problem, yes. I also happen to find him really dull. I'm pleased with our recent lift in form, but it took the best part of two years to get there.

[mighty_west]

I doubt it was a personal attack.

Yeah its only a personal attack to those who feel the need to make it out to be, yet an incoming coach still has to sell his brand and techniques and plans to the members and supporters to basically get them on board, Macca has never swayed away from his contested, play the right style brand when speaking about us and some of the better sides in the comp.

[mighty_west]

That was a problem, yes. I also happen to find him really dull. I'm pleased with our recent lift in form, but it took the best part of two years to get there.

Easing out the old players whilst blooding the kids has alot to do with that.

[GVGjr]

Don't get me started. When he was appointed, there was lots of talk of having to learn to play "the right way", which was a clear shot at Eade and Co., and that seemed to be alright.

I don't believe it was but I think people are reading more into comments than they should.
The comment was in relation to his 'contested footy' mantra and how that differed to the way the team had played for a long way.

The coaching panel was looking towards a change of direction and Macca presented something different to the other coaches that interviewed including Eade and that is why he was selected.

2 years on and he has now modified the focus contested footy a bit because they players have now embraced it.

I don't believe Watters was having a go at previous coaches at StKilda nor was Macca with Eade. They are just comments not a shot at anyone.

[Remi Moses]

Don't get me started. When he was appointed, there was lots of talk of having to learn to play "the right way", which was a clear shot at Eade and Co., and that seemed to be alright.

He wasn't having a go at Eade he was saying we need to play in a style that wins big finals.
I can't draw a corolation on accepting mediocrity and their off field indiscretions, as the two are completely irrelevant.
Sure you could mount a case for Stkilda accepting crapness in the 80's, but the 90's onwards it's way to harsh.

[LostDoggy]

He wasn't having a go at Eade he was saying we need to play in a style that wins big finals.
I can't draw a corolation on accepting mediocrity and their off field indiscretions, as the two are completely irrelevant.
Sure you could mount a case for Stkilda accepting crapness in the 80's, but the 90's onwards it's way to harsh.

Exactly correct Remi. I recall his speeches to this end.

[OLD SCRAGGer]

That was a problem, yes. I also happen to find him really dull. I'm pleased with our recent lift in form, but it took the best part of two years to get there.

How long do you think it took Geelong to become the power they are now? 5-6 years, these things don't happen overnight. I talk to Brendan quite often, and he is FAR FROM BEING DULL as you put it!!!!!

[AndrewP6]

He wasn't having a go at Eade he was saying we need to play in a style that wins big finals.
I can't draw a corolation on accepting mediocrity and their off field indiscretions, as the two are completely irrelevant.

I don't agree on the first point, but anyway.
No they're not irrelevant - some of their off field behaviour has been decidedly mediocre.

[AndrewP6]

Yeah its only a personal attack to those who feel the need to make it out to be

True, much like those that took offence at the ribbing of McCartney's oft-repeated "cracking in"...

[AndrewP6]

How long do you think it took Geelong to become the power they are now? 5-6 years, these things don't happen overnight. I talk to Brendan quite often, and he is FAR FROM BEING DULL as you put it!!!!!

Your opinion, which you're entitled to. As I am to mine.

[chef]

True, much like those that took offence at the ribbing of McCartney's oft-repeated "cracking in"...

I think it was more the fact that these people thought that 'cracking in' was the only thing he was teaching us.

Which was daft and annoying.

[Topdog]

I don't agree on the first point, but anyway.
No they're not irrelevant - some of their off field behaviour has been decidedly mediocre.

And yet under Watters no player has been heavily sanctioned....
At least Ross had the balls to fire a player.

[azabob]

And yet under Watters no player has been heavily sanctioned....
At least Ross had the balls to fire a player.

Lovett? Rules for some and not others.

[bulldogtragic]

BMac is invited on most decent TV shows, stood in on 360 for Eade, presents at functions including the rising star and is widely lauded. Watters is a knob. For all the knocks that can be made on BMac, this shouldn't be one of them.

[Topdog]

Lovett? Rules for some and not others.

Perhaps. It is still more than Watters has done.

He also frequently disciplined his players for on field action.

[Maddog37]

True, much like those that took offence at the ribbing of McCartney's oft-repeated "cracking in"...

It wasn't offensive, simply tedious and not funny.

You have every right to your opinion on Macca though.

[boydogs]

Easing out the old players whilst blooding the kids has alot to do with that.

Kids like Cross?

[mighty_west]

Kids like Cross?

Kids like Jong, Howard, Smith, MacRae, Stringer etc plus some list cloggers such as DJ, Sherman, Skinner etc etc.

[boydogs]

Kids like Jong, Howard, Smith, MacRae, Stringer etc plus some list cloggers such as DJ, Sherman, Skinner etc etc.

I thought you were talking about our 4-2 run at the end of the 2013 season.

[1eyedog]

How long do you think it took Geelong to become the power they are now? 5-6 years, these things don't happen overnight. I talk to Brendan quite often, and he is FAR FROM BEING DULL as you put it!!!!!

Yep spoken to Macca a few times at the club - he holds your attention that's for sure. The first time I met him I walked away thinking he would make an excellent high ranking army officer.

[Ghost Dog]

I think most brilliant coaches need to be a little eccentric or out there. Brendan occasionally makes me do a double take, and I like this. Bit of the mad ranger about him. It's very clear the media like him. He carries himself really well in the press conferences. I watch them all and they range from being exceedingly testy ( Mick, Lyon ) or are just plain cliche ( Longmire ).
Watters barely has a pulse in his interviews. Not sure if that's a fair reflection of how he coaches.

[Remi Moses]

I don't agree on the first point, but anyway.
No they're not irrelevant - some of their off field behaviour has been decidedly mediocre.

Facts are we didn't win a " big final " under Rocket.
Credit to McCartney who was copping it from all quarters ( including here )
And didn't bite back and handled the situation well.

[Remi Moses]

That was a problem, yes. I also happen to find him really dull. I'm pleased with our recent lift in form, but it took the best part of two years to get there.

Who gives a stuff if the coach is dull:rolleyes:
It's not the Australian personality league

[AndrewP6]

Who gives a stuff if the coach is dull:rolleyes:
It's not the Australian personality league

We all have our take on things. People have raved about his magnetic personality and riveting speeches - I don't concur.

[AndrewP6]

Facts are we didn't win a " big final " under Rocket.
Credit to McCartney who was copping it from all quarters ( including here )
And didn't bite back and handled the situation well.

True, it's also a fact that as our coach, thus far McCartneys W/L record isn't great.

[bornadog]

Who gives a stuff if the coach is dull:rolleyes:
It's not the Australian personality league

The one thing about Wallace and Rocket is they helped promote the club. I hope Macca starts doing the same as there is more to coaching than training, developing and game day.

[Remi Moses]

True, it's also a fact that as our coach, thus far McCartneys W/L record isn't great.

Come on, completely different circumstances though.
Eade had a way better list than McCartney inherited.
I know McCartney's unproven, but when our premiership window was there we weren't good enough

[ledge]

A hint at the respect the AFL have of him, he did the rising star speech and was chairman of the norm smith medal decision, no doubt whatsoever he isn't dull, I would say he is more a stubborn man in the way he hasn't move an iota in his plans for us and the build up to it

[Bulldog Revolution]

The one thing about Wallace and Rocket is they helped promote the club. I hope Macca starts doing the same as there is more to coaching than training, developing and game day.

Macca should just focus on being himself, there is something to be said for being authentic - I think hes improving as a media performer and has stuck to his guns over what we were doing. His most important role is coaching, if hes doing that well, then it will be far easier for him to talk about it.

Loved his rising star speech. I think he's growing into the role of coach, but he has to be prepared to develop and improve - thats what the best do, Clarko, Lyon etc

Compare his performances to Neeld and you'd have to think we've done ok BAD?, considering the terrible finish to 2012.

How do you think he compares to Sanderson and Hinkley?

[westdog54]

The one thing about Wallace and Rocket is they helped promote the club. I hope Macca starts doing the same as there is more to coaching than training, developing and game day.

I think he's slowly getting better at this, doing a bit more media stuff away from the club (AFL 360, Rising Star etc), and love watching him in front of the media. Manages to suck up to them a bit but play a straight bat at the same time.

[azabob]

I think he's slowly getting better at this, doing a bit more media stuff away from the club (AFL 360, Rising Star etc), and love watching him in front of the media. Manages to suck up to them a bit but play a straight bat at the same time.

Suck up to the media, or treat them with respect like he does everyone else?

[Ghost Dog]

Noticed he was shaking a fair bit during the NAB speech. And yet he spoke in a very genuine and straight forward way. I'm a massive fan of this coach. respect.

[westdog54]

Suck up to the media, or treat them with respect like he does everyone else?

Probably a better way of saying it, bad choice of words on my part.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

The one thing about Wallace and Rocket is they helped promote the club. I hope Macca starts doing the same as there is more to coaching than training, developing and game day.

The promotional skills of Wallace and Rocket didn't see any great increase in memberships, in spite of us playing in 5 prelim finals during their time. Macca has started very well with players like Minson, Roughead, Wallis and Grant lifting their output considerably and turning their careers around. The big test going forward is to develop the finishing skills like Hawthorn has done. Our attack on the ball has been BMcC's greatest legacy so far.

[1eyedog]

The one thing about Wallace and Rocket is they helped promote the club. I hope Macca starts doing the same as there is more to coaching than training, developing and game day.

Macca can be as boring as bat shite if he takes us to a Grand Final. This will be the best way to promote the club. Agree with the above that attack on the ball and ferocity at the contest are two killer ways of bringing more of our supporters to games - like the Bulldogs of old.

[Remi Moses]

Macca can be as boring as bat shite if he takes us to a Grand Final. This will be the best way to promote the club. Agree with the above that attack on the ball and ferocity at the contest are two killer ways of bringing more of our supporters to games - like the Bulldogs of old.

Exactly, I've been thinking the same thing

[bornadog]

The promotional skills of Wallace and Rocket didn't see any great increase in memberships, in spite of us playing in 5 prelim finals during their time. Macca has started very well with players like Minson, Roughead, Wallis and Grant lifting their output considerably and turning their careers around. The big test going forward is to develop the finishing skills like Hawthorn has done. Our attack on the ball has been BMcC's greatest legacy so far.

Lets see when we make a final under Macca and then we can judge him whether he is any good. So far he has done well and we seem to be progressing.

[Hot_Doggies]

Savage and pick 17 for McEvoy?!

Staggering, what is going on at the Saints?

[soupman]

Savage and pick 17 for McEvoy?!

Staggering, what is going on at the Saints?

Wow I just thought it was a stupid rumour. WTF are St.Kilda doing?

[comrade]

I thought this was the Trade Week Darwin Awards thread.

Maybe they’re looking at packaging up pick 3 and the Hawks first rounder (which may end up around pick 20) to give to Brisbane for Longer and pick 7.

Anyone worried that the Saints might offer Crammers a comparable contract and give Essendon the Hawk pick to secure him? If they don't make a move on Crammers, would you then assume they're not interested and therefore not likely to take him in the PSD if it gets to that?

[Hot_Doggies]

Savage the next Djerkurra, Prismall, Gamble, Playfair, Gillies..........

[comrade]

Savage the next Djerkurra, Prismall, Gamble, Playfair, Gillies..........

Good comparison. I'm glad we steered clear.

[LostDoggy]

I thought this was the Trade Week Darwin Awards thread.

Maybe they’re looking at packaging up pick 3 and the Hawks first rounder (which may end up around pick 20) to give to Brisbane for Longer and pick 7.

Anyone worried that the Saints might offer Crammers a comparable contract and give Essendon the Hawk pick to secure him? If they don't make a move on Crammers, would you then assume they're not interested and therefore not likely to take him in the PSD if it gets to that?

Good point. Just depends if he wants to go to the saints (i doubt it - would have to be a Savage to want that)

[Greystache]

I thought this was the Trade Week Darwin Awards thread.

Maybe they’re looking at packaging up pick 3 and the Hawks first rounder (which may end up around pick 20) to give to Brisbane for Longer and pick 7.

Anyone worried that the Saints might offer Crammers a comparable contract and give Essendon the Hawk pick to secure him? If they don't make a move on Crammers, would you then assume they're not interested and therefore not likely to take him in the PSD if it gets to that?

By the looks of things Watters doesn't want anyone over the age of 21-22, so Crameri appears to be outside their target range.

[Happy Days]

So Pelchen's trying to get Watters sacked, right?

[Twodogs]

So Pelchen's trying to get Watters sacked, right?


Looks that way.

[The Doctor]

The promotional skills of Wallace and Rocket didn't see any great increase in memberships.

that's not correct.

Under Eade our memberships rose to over 30k where as previously under Rhode it was around 19k. I think our member numbers have dipped since Macca took over.

Not sure about the Wallace era.

I'm sure someone can get their hands on our membership numbers to support the argument either way.

[soupman]

that's not correct.

Under Eade our memberships rose to over 30k where as previously under Rhode it was around 19k. I think our member numbers have dipped since Macca took over.

Not sure about the Wallace era.

I'm sure someone can get their hands on our membership numbers to support the argument either way.

Surely results and supporters expectations of the upcoming seasons will affect that more than the coach would.

I'd anticipate an increase in memberships next year despite McCartney still being at the helm.

[The Doctor]

I'd anticipate an increase in memberships next year despite McCartney still being at the helm.

Well I hope you're right!

[Greystache]

that's not correct.

Under Eade our memberships rose to over 30k where as previously under Rhode it was around 19k. I think our member numbers have dipped since Macca took over.

Not sure about the Wallace era.

I'm sure someone can get their hands on our membership numbers to support the argument either way.

Every team's increased dramatically during that period, it's a stretch to suggest the media engagement of Eade played a serious part. The membership number increased in direct correlation with our ladder position, peaking at 34,000 in 2010 and dropping back to 30,000 over the next 2 seasons.

Hawthorn's increased during that period from 29,000 to 63,000 and Clarkson is a total douchebag to the media.

[Remi Moses]

Every team's increased dramatically during that period, it's a stretch to suggest the media engagement of Eade played a serious part. The membership number increased in direct correlation with our ladder position, peaking at 34,000 in 2010 and dropping back to 30,000 over the next 2 seasons.

Hawthorn's increased during that period from 29,000 to 63,000 and Clarkson is a total douchebag to the media.

Agree with this.

[GVGjr]

So Pelchen's trying to get Watters sacked, right?

It's like watching the Major League movie when the owner stripped the club of all the good players. Is this a form of tanking? ;)

[westdog54]

Savage and pick 17 for McEvoy?!

Staggering, what is going on at the Saints?

Been saying it all day, I don't understand it.

Going into this week I would have seen McEvoy as up there as being as untradeable as Riewoldt.

You can book them in for next year's wooden spoon.

[comrade]

Been saying it all day, I don't understand it.

Going into this week I would have seen McEvoy as up there as being as untradeable as Riewoldt.

You can book them in for next year's wooden spoon.

Apparently he had a shit yeah and is holding Hickey back, if you go by many Saints fans on BF.

I think he's a very good player and Hawks have strengthened their side once again. They now have a quality ruckman who can shoulder most of the load, allowing Roughy to be the top banana in Buddy's absence.

He'll also partner well with Hale. Hale is very capable resting forwad and McEvoy is cut from the Scott Wynd cloth. He works hard to chop off opposition forays in his defensive half.

I don't know why battler teams keep helping the Hawks. McEvoy will probably win the Norm Smith next year :D

[Bulldog Joe]

Apparently he had a shit yeah and is holding Hickey back, if you go by many Saints fans on BF.

I think he's a very good player and Hawks have strengthened their side once again. They now have a quality ruckman who can shoulder most of the load, allowing Roughy to be the top banana in Buddy's absence.

He'll also partner well with Hale. Hale is very capable resting forwad and McEvoy is cut from the Scott Wynd cloth. He works hard to chop off opposition forays in his defensive half.

I don't know why battler teams keep helping the Hawks. McEvoy will probably win the Norm Smith next year :D

Not sure about the quality ruckman tag. I think Bailey was certainly better at the rucking caper.

McEvoy is big and contests the hitouts but is mostly beaten at that. He does however get into the backline and takes plenty of marks. Will be interesting to see if his game is altered to suit Clarkson's coaching.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Not sure about the quality ruckman tag. I think Bailey was certainly better at the rucking caper.

McEvoy is big and contests the hitouts but is mostly beaten at that. He does however get into the backline and takes plenty of marks. Will be interesting to see if his game is altered to suit Clarkson's coaching.

Bailey who is regarded as a quality person by Hawthorn at just 27yo has been secured by Richmond as its ruck coach next year.

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say ruckmen usually mature at an older age than other position types.
Can see both sides to this trade to be honest.
Apparently Essendon are in for Dal Santo yet they haven't spoken to his manager.
Click their fingers and players arrive there, obviously.
Carrier pidgeon on the way

[LostDoggy]

Hearing a lot of rumors that Watters is on the verge if getting sacked.

[bornadog]

Saints debated sacking Watters (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/saints-debated-sacking-watters-20131015-2vkwn.html)

[Remi Moses]

Incredible turn of events there, it was only months ago Watters was being lauded by everyone !
If Stkilda get off to a shocker they're going to move swiftly.
Clearly fractured relationships everywhere

[LostDoggy]

Saints debated sacking Watters (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/saints-debated-sacking-watters-20131015-2vkwn.html)

Heard it before Carro. Hire me Age!

[Remi Moses]

Heard it before Carro. Hire me Age!

Mark Fine on SEN was spruiking that Watters should be sacked

[LostDoggy]

Mark Fine on SEN was spruiking that Watters should be sacked

Should be and is going to be are 2 different things