Lets Discuss - Liam Picken

[GVGjr]

Picken has been a terrific player for the club since he first arrived.
He has primarily been used as a midfield tagger and has an impressive number of high profile scalps due to his efforts of shutting down opposition players.

He has also been used as a defender from time to time but hasn't been as effective.

With the emergence of Wallis and even Smith in tagging roles I wonder if Picken can still be one of the first names called out at the selectors table each week?

Is Picken still a walk up start for our best 22? Does he need to reinvent himself in another role or does he just need to add another string to his bow by being a goal kicking small forward?

I think Picken still has plenty to offer and is very much still in our best 22 but I do think he needs to develop further as a footballer.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[westdog54]

In my view with Wallis' emergence as a tagger, combined with Smith's demonstrated capability as a lock-down player, Picken has gone beyond 'not being best 22'. I never thought I'd hear myself say it, but I think come October 2014, Picken's spot on the list is in Jeopardy.

It's bloody unfortunate because Liam has carved out a pretty good career with us, but at the end of the day, Wallis and Smith have far more strings to their bow on top of being able to shut down a key midfielder.

He's been tried as a small defender with limited success, there simply isn't room in the forward line for him and he hasn't got the skill set or the decision making capability to play on a wing.

I think he's in trouble if he can't settle as a defender.

[always right]

I think Picken will be under increasing pressure and it will be a case of finding him a suitable match-up where he can play his shut down role. At times that wil be in the midfield on players like Harvey whilst more often it will be in defence. If he doesn't have such a match-up he doesn't play.

[Bulldog Joe]

I am also of the view that Picken is under pressure to hold his spot, not only in the 22 but also on the list at the end of 2014.

He has had good success as a lock down, but he doesn't hurt enough with possession, compared to the performance of Wallis late in the season.

I see Liam as someone who has got the best from himself, but much like DFA he just doesn't have anything else apart from being hard at it.

It is a pretty good sign for the club when guys like Liam are under pressure to retain a spot.

[always right]

What Picken does have is leg speed......in comparison to Wallis. I think that there are going to be games where the match up suits Picken more than Wallis. Harvey is an obvious example where Wallis just isn't the right man for the job and would probably move onto someone like Swallow or Ziebel.

I think for Picken it's going to be a season of horses for courses.

[bornadog]

Has been very good for us as a rookie upgrade and I still believe he is in our best 22. Wallis and Smith are still nowhere near him as a tagger. I said from day one, we didn't need a Nick Lower to come into that role, as Picken was already regarded in the AFL as one of the top 5 taggers. I can understand, Macca was trying to plug holes by switching Picken to a back pocket and Nick tacking his role (Wallis later in the season). Unfortunately, Picken struggled in the BP shut down role, it just doesn't suit him.

I do agree with GVGjr, he does need develop further so if there is no match up as a tagger, he takes on another role. He has shown he can kick goals and perhaps some games he can take on the forward pocket role.

[Go_Dogs]

I tend to agree with AR that there are times when Picken will be needed to shut down certain style of players.

Wallis will be better suited to the more inside, slightly slower players, much as Lower was at the start of the season. Picken will be better suited against the more outside types who have some pace and are perhaps a bit more mentally fragile. Most sides have one of these, strictly outside players now (or more) so Picken should be close to a game most weeks for the balance of the season. I'm thinking Harvey/Wells at North, Hill/Pearce at Freo, Hill/Rioli at Hawthorn, Jetta at Sydney, Motlop at Geelong, Gaff at WC.

I also thought he improved his as the season wore on playing in defence. He's still adjusting to the role and has struggled a bit when taken one out, but his disposal did improve as the season went on coming out of the backline. He's behind quite a few there too, but there will be certain match ups against nippy, crumbing forwards where he may be our preferred option too.

It's difficult to get a read on where he may sit at the end of the year and a lot of that will be contingent on the continued improvement of our younger players.

[LostDoggy]

I think he really improved in his role as a back pocket as the season wore on, not only in his defensive craft but also his ability to provide rebound through the middle. I still think there's a spot in our best 22 for Liam, but with the return of JJ and Goodes, acquisition of Darley and improvement of Young, it isn't as a specialist back pocket. I can see Liam returning as purely a tagger again, but not necessarily through the midfield. We all know how good he is in that role through the middle, his defensive work has improved a lot and Liam has shown plenty of goal sense earlier in his career to be used as an effective defensive forward if needs be. Wallis gets enough of the ball while shutting out the best opposition midfielder for Picken to be used to shut out the opposition's most dangerous small, whatever position he plays IMO.

[Scorlibo]

I think he really improved in his role as a back pocket as the season wore on, not only in his defensive craft but also his ability to provide rebound through the middle. I still think there's a spot in our best 22 for Liam, but with the return of JJ and Goodes, acquisition of Darley and improvement of Young, it isn't as a specialist back pocket. I can see Liam returning as purely a tagger again, but not necessarily through the midfield. We all know how good he is in that role through the middle, his defensive work has improved a lot and Liam has shown plenty of goal sense earlier in his career to be used as an effective defensive forward if needs be. Wallis gets enough of the ball while shutting out the best opposition midfielder for Picken to be used to shut out the opposition's most dangerous small, whatever position he plays IMO.

I agree with this, Liam underwent the biggest test of his career this year when he was taken away from the tagging role. For a long time he struggled and I myself questioned whether he would make it without hanging off someone else's back, but his form in the last half of the year was very good. I'm more than comfortable naming him in a back pocket for the next 2 years.

[Cyberdoggie]

Didn't look great in defence when given a shot this year and needs to add another string to his bow, or be able to get the ball more and hurt the other way.

Being a negating player first and foremost has stopped him developing his own game.

I would like to see Picken play in the middle as a purely attacking player at Footscray a few games, see how he goes. Hopefully it might improve that aspect for the WB's.

[1eyedog]

Our forward line will be very 'big' next year. Maybe he rotates between a tagging role in the middle and a defensive forward role in 2014.

We have such a young inexperienced team with so many players untested in their positions that Picken is absolutely required in our best 22.

[josie]

Agree with Scorlibo and Cricho54 - I think Liam has a spot in the best 22 for now, especially if he maintains his speed when tagging. He always put in 100% which I like heaps. One of my favourite players. Yes there will be competition from the young pups, however that's all good too.

[LostDoggy]

Our forward line will be very 'big' next year. Maybe he rotates between a tagging role in the middle and a defensive forward role in 2014.

We have such a young inexperienced team with so many players untested in their positions that Picken is absolutely required in our best 22.

I think Smith is a superior forward tag. I was really skeptical of his role in the side midway through the year. I loved his hardness at the ball but his habit of kicking blindly was really hurting the side. After he got dropped he came back with a renewed focus on the quality of his disposal. I suspect he was given a message to work on this side of his game and he responded. Kudos to him and coaching staff.

Having said that he's still fringe best 22 for mine.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I see Picken as being able to fill holes in 2013 in regards to tagging midfield roles and as a bock pocket, but beyond 2014 he could be in trouble. He's not a natural defender, but fortunately for him, we don't have many defenders. If we drafted Scharenberg and Wood and Darley played well, for example, his spot may be gone. Lot of if's though.

Impending retirements of Boyd, Murphy and Morris may prolong his career if we don't cover their loss via the drafts.

[Ghost Dog]

Picken has been a terrific player for the club since he first arrived.
He has primarily been used as a midfield tagger and has an impressive number of high profile scalps due to his efforts of shutting down opposition players.



Being from Hamilton I am immensely proud of Liam. But I think overall he has had much better seasons. It got better towards the end, but when he played down back, I was horrified at some of his disposal and decision making. He redeemed himself with some good play at the end of the season, and maybe this was in part, the coaching staff understanding more about him and his role within the team.

[Remi Moses]

Being from Hamilton I am immensely proud of Liam. But I think overall he has had much better seasons. It got better towards the end, but when he played down back, I was horrified at some of his disposal and decision making. He redeemed himself with some good play at the end of the season, and maybe this was in part, the coaching staff understanding more about him and his role within the team.

Agreed.
Liam's first half was awful, picked it up when the team picked up.
Everything was a million miles an hour( I know that's his normal M.O)
But his no look kicks stood out in the first half.

[LostDoggy]

Players get injured on occasion. Best 22 or not, I'd have thought retaining a bloke like Picken would be obvious. Hardest man at the club, now Crossy has gone “toff-side”.

I think a lot of supporters' impressions of Picken are influenced by his playing the role for the team, much like Gia for 90% of his career.

[soupman]

I think he finished the year strongly, and fills a need as a small and quick lockdown defender. He'd be horrible to play on, and is possibly the only player we have equipped to to shut down guys like Betts and Milne that doesn't have to compromise the rest of his game to do so unlike Murphy and potentially JJ (partly cause Picken doesn't have half the attacking game these guys do).

You could also raise the point that in the first half of the year ontop of dealing with a new role as not the number one tagger Picken had also just had twins born possibly a little prematurely which may have impacted his ability to play his best footy.

[LostDoggy]

Picko is still best 22 for mine. He would have to be one of the first picked every single week. He is one of the few in our 'missing generation' (from 24-28), which is a big issue for us at the moment. Apart form Higgins there's probably only Granty and now Crameri in that middle age bracket. Although no the chattiest bloke on the park, I believe Liam gives a lot in terms of leadership in the way he goes about things. He has a very cool head under any circumstances and he is as hard as nails which I am sure endears him to Macca and the rest of the hard nuts in the club. With JJ back and Darley coming in, I think Picko will play the shut down role again, especially on outside players while Mitch negates the inside. Having said that, he is still capable of winning his own ball and can rebound off HB with a good turn of speed and pretty good disposal into the 50. In all, I think 2014 could be a very good year for Liam Picken.

[jeemak]

He seemed to improve in the small defender role in the second half of the season, which was positive as it almost seem the year in a new position may have been a step backwards.

With Wallis emerging as a midfield stopper with a few more tricks, Picken needs to make the defensive spot his own otherwise he'll (as Always Right states) only be wheeled out for specific midfield jobs.

Hi kicking out of defense is a major concern for me. I'm not sure how much of it is mental for him though, as it looked like he thought through scenarios better in the second half of the year and lowered his eyes more.

[Ghost Dog]

A great little highlights package here starting at 3.55 of Pickers working his craft.
I had my boss try to convince me he's not such a good player the other day, but certainly
a lot of the opposition are ready to give testimony to his work.

http://www.afl.com.au/video/2013-12-22/the-art-of-niggle-and-negation

[F'scary]

Very interesting comments back 6 months ago. Woofers were not prepared to unrank him despite a poor first half of the season where he was playing a new position.

Picken has kept up the improvement as smaller BP this season to the point he now owns the position.

His vision on disposal, however, is still very average. He looks best on disposal when he is given a lot of support. When he has to be inventive or pin point - that's where his game falls apart.

[Greystache]

He would have to be well up the front of the B&F after 4 games. If he can keep his current form up all season he'll have a brilliant year.

[1eyedog]

Every team needs a Picken.

[always right]

In view of the publicity he's received this week, I thought it appropriate to bump this thread. There seems to be more than an inference that Picken is the baddie in this whole episode...the latest example being an article in The Age online today highlighting the players who have been reported for retaliating to Picken's attention.

I just want to say that I've never perceived Picken as a dirty player who plays outside the rules. Sure he's stepped over the line at times...like so many have...but he's no sniper and his game has been built around a competiveness that borders on fanaticism. No-one goes harder at the ball and in a scrap I know who is going to come out on top.

His reaction (or lack of) to the Harvey incident was typical of him. No histrionics, no complaining.....he just got on with the job. He's had a great season and I object to him being painted as the embodiment of everything that is wrong about taggers. He's someone who will give everything for the team and the fact he has played every game this season tells you how highly he is rated by the coaches.

Some on this board questioned whether he was in our best 22 at the beginning of the year. The reality is he has never even looked like being dropped. He's a bulldog through and through.

[LostDoggy]

Histrionics! Friday's word for the day! :)

[Maddog37]

Great bloke too. He really is the antithesis of Boomer.

[1eyedog]

In view of the publicity he's received this week, I thought it appropriate to bump this thread. There seems to be more than an inference that Picken is the baddie in this whole episode...the latest example being an article in The Age online today highlighting the players who have been reported for retaliating to Picken's attention.

I just want to say that I've never perceived Picken as a dirty player who plays outside the rules. Sure he's stepped over the line at times...like so many have...but he's no sniper and his game has been built around a competiveness that borders on fanaticism. No-one goes harder at the ball and in a scrap I know who is going to come out on top.

His reaction (or lack of) to the Harvey incident was typical of him. No histrionics, no complaining.....he just got on with the job. He's had a great season and I object to him being painted as the embodiment of everything that is wrong about taggers. He's someone who will give everything for the team and the fact he has played every game this season tells you how highly he is rated by the coaches.

Some on this board questioned whether he was in our best 22 at the beginning of the year. The reality is he has never even looked like being dropped. He's a bulldog through and through.

That's a really good post and one I agree with wholeheartedly.

[RoZDog]

Often the "ball players" are more likely to snipe opposition players than the defensive midfielders. Whether this is due to frustration about their inability to get their hands on the pill or that they are just dirty (boomer) is up to ones own opinion. Picken is a beast in the contest and rarely looks like he gets into heated words with his opponent, just gets on with the job.

[azabob]

It was great to hear BMAC praise Picken in his press conference on Thursday.

[The bulldog tragician]

Good to see BMac defend Liam. One of those heart and soul players, a great story of determination to make it. I may be biased (surely not!) but I think he plays right to the edge of the rules but within them and The Age article really annoyed me, just innuendo and insinuation.

[Remi Moses]

Finally Harvey took some responsibility for carrying on like a 2 year old.
His teammates don't help him by defending him at every corner.
Had a very good year and would be firming for a b+f placing

[Hotdog60]

I agree with the coach and some of the posts at the bottom of the article.
If he was breaking the rules the umpires should be pinging him for it. The fact that he doesn't accumulate a lot of frees against show that he plays within the rules. Taggers are part of the game now so people need to get used to the idea that they are here to stay.

If Norf supporters are complaining they need to take a good look at Scott Thompson and how he plays the main forwards.

[F'scary]

Sure our team has personnel issues. But Picken isn't one of them.

[Happy Days]

Picken's had a great year, dare I say a career saving year. Always had a question on whether he could take the small forward out and he's answered it this year.

Still owns Harvey's soul too, which is sick.