Assistant Coaches?

[Go_Dogs]

So, what does everyone make of our current Assistant Coaching personnel, are there any changes we need to look at or anyone floating out in the market place that we should be looking to add to our group?

We currently have (and please correct me if I'm wrong):

Shannon Grant
Steven King
Rohan Smith
Brett Montgomery

We also have:

Ashley Hansen
Chris Maple

as development coaches, although I wonder if Maple's new role will mean we need to find someone else to assist in this capacity?

We also have Cam Mooney and Matty Scarlett who are helping out on a part time basis again for season 2014.

For mine, we could certainly look at adding another coach to the development side of things and if monetary constraints allow, I wouldn't mind looking at another assistant to join our ranks too. Not necessarily a 'senior assistant' but someone with a fresh pair of eyes from a successful club.

Thoughts?

[Happy Days]

Agree with your thinking man. The time for a senior assistant has come and gone with McCartney having been here for 2 seasons and presumably settled in, but with the stand alone club coming a greater focus on player development will be required. With Maple's expanded role you would expect him to be given charge of some underlings, no?

[1eyedog]

I also think a fresh perspective would be good for for both the team and our current coaches as well. For some reason though I feel strongly that they'll need to fit snuggly into Macca's methodology, with some flexibility. I don't reckon we'll bring in another assistant for next season but I expect Gia to take on a much bigger role with a view to effectively replacing Maple in 2015.

[always right]

Many in the past have called for Macca to get more assistance in the box on matchday. Does anyone still think this is necessary or is the concensus that he has improved in this area?

[soupman]

Many in the past have called for Macca to get more assistance in the box on matchday. Does anyone still think this is necessary or is the concensus that he has improved in this area?

It couldn't hurt.

[bornadog]

Many in the past have called for Macca to get more assistance in the box on matchday. Does anyone still think this is necessary or is the concensus that he has improved in this area?

I think we can improve on Brett Montgomery on match days.

[LostDoggy]

I've seen nothing match day that screams tactical genius but you wonder if that's deliberate . The focus has been on instilling a basic bulldog way into our players. I suspect the messaging on and off the field has been either of the following. When kid (a) is getting beat; leave him to get beat to learn the lesson but ensure he does exactly what we've instilled whilst he gets creamed up. Wallis a good example on Mitchell and he stuck to his guns well. Or. Teams getting beat. That's ok - keep the team to structure to see how it reacts. Who stands up? Who's going to go that next level.

We are close to coming out the other side of that process soon so could be a good time to find a great tactical coach to add that string to our bow. I think we may have the best development team in the game at the moment so finding the strongest assistant coach game day tactician we can afford, to support that, only makes sense.

[LostDoggy]

I think we can improve on Brett Montgomery on match days.

What makes you single Brett specifically BAD?

[bornadog]

What makes you single Brett specifically BAD?

Pretty sure his role is tactics and match day strategy and as you say, I don't see anything screaming out saying tactical genius.

I have never really like him as an assistant and some of the things he has said in the past (ala the Brian Lake Comment) were not very professional.

I would still like to see an experienced assistant helping Macca - and that is not taking anything away from him. Many clubs have gone down that path and it can only be a good thing.

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty sure his role is tactics and match day strategy and as you say, I don't see anything screaming out saying tactical genius.

I have never really like him as an assistant and some of the things he has said in the past (ala the Brian Lake Comment) were not very professional.

I would still like to see an experienced assistant helping Macca - and that is not taking anything away from him. Many clubs have gone down that path and it can only be a good thing.
And it's not a negative. No one says Hird, Buckley or Hardwick are bad coaches, yet they all have senior assistants (or similar) who have grand final coaching on their resumes. If we can afford the salary I think it would be fantastic.

[GVGjr]

I would still like to see an experienced assistant helping Macca - and that is not taking anything away from him. Many clubs have gone down that path and it can only be a good thing.

I tend to agree.

I guess the case to be mounted in this suggestion is that some clubs also have an experienced football person as their GM of football operations whereas we have Graham Lowe who has a significant background in other sports but not the AFL.

I suppose with all the activities and expenses involved in starting up our own VFL side I'm not sure we have the funds to get a real experienced guy as an assistant coach just yet.

[Greystache]

Pretty sure his role is tactics and match day strategy and as you say, I don't see anything screaming out saying tactical genius.

I have never really like him as an assistant and some of the things he has said in the past (ala the Brian Lake Comment) were not very professional.

I would still like to see an experienced assistant helping Macca - and that is not taking anything away from him. Many clubs have gone down that path and it can only be a good thing.

Can you point to a team that's taken this approach that could be considered a success?

Melbourne and Brisbane did it and have since sacked their coaches. Collingwood were a dual Grand Finalist and Premier who looked like dominating for the next decade, but under Buckley/Eade have gone backwards at 100 miles an hour and are a middle of the road team. Richmond still hasn't won a final in a decade even after adding Williams. Likewise Essendon, with the dream team of Hird/Tompson, their wheels fall off their season every year at about round 15 and haven't achieved any more than they did under Knights.

I keep hearing about how inexperienced coaches need an experienced assistant, but all evidence points to it being a sure fire way to struggle.

[bornadog]

Can you point to a team that's taken this approach that could be considered a success?

Melbourne and Brisbane did it and have since sacked their coaches. Collingwood were a dual Grand Finalist and Premier who looked like dominating for the next decade, but under Buckley/Eade have gone backwards at 100 miles an hour and are a middle of the road team. Richmond still hasn't won a final in a decade even after adding Williams. Likewise Essendon, with the dream team of Hird/Tompson, their wheels fall off their season every year at about round 15 and haven't achieved any more than they did under Knights.

I keep hearing about how inexperienced coaches need an experienced assistant, but all evidence points to it being a sure fire way to struggle.

So an experienced coach helping is not a good thing. You would be the only person I have ever heard say that.

[Greystache]

So an experienced coach helping is not a good thing. You would be the only person I have ever heard say that.

All evidence suggests it's not. All I asked was can you highlight an example where it has been a good thing?

[bornadog]

All evidence suggests it's not. All I asked was can you highlight an example where it has been a good thing?

The evidence you point to is not evidence as its just points out the positions on the ladder and doesn't tell us what really happens inside the club.

All I know is logic and logic tells me an experienced person helping a non-experienced person must be a good thing.

[soupman]

I keep hearing about how inexperienced coaches need an experienced assistant, but all evidence points to it being a sure fire way to struggle.

I think there's different approaches though.

The approaches you've highlighted have been guys like Harvey, Eade and Thompson coming in as almost a football manager/overseer role, where the coach is equal to them and just has different jurisdiction.

I think there is room for an experienced tactical assistant in an assistant coach role, working underneath McCartney in the same manner as the other assistant coaches, with a tactical emphasis. I imagine this is the role Montgomery is in, but possibly getting a more experienced assistant to work instead or alongside him to offer a wider range of tactical ideas and input.

[bornadog]

I think there's different approaches though.

The approaches you've highlighted have been guys like Harvey, Eade and Thompson coming in as almost a football manager/overseer role, where the coach is equal to them and just has different jurisdiction.

I think there is room for an experienced tactical assistant in an assistant coach role, working underneath McCartney in the same manner as the other assistant coaches, with a tactical emphasis. I imagine this is the role Montgomery is in, but possibly getting a more experienced assistant to work instead or alongside him to offer a wider range of tactical ideas and input.

Nicely said my thoughts excatly

[Greystache]

I think there's different approaches though.

The approaches you've highlighted have been guys like Harvey, Eade and Thompson coming in as almost a football manager/overseer role, where the coach is equal to them and just has different jurisdiction.

I think there is room for an experienced tactical assistant in an assistant coach role, working underneath McCartney in the same manner as the other assistant coaches, with a tactical emphasis. I imagine this is the role Montgomery is in, but possibly getting a more experienced assistant to work instead or alongside him to offer a wider range of tactical ideas and input.

Dean Laidley performed this role at St Kilda the past 3 years, again I wouldn't consider them a shining example. Certainly no more than the usual assistant coach with aspirations of one day coaching in their own right.

I think given the cost involved the results don't justify the expense, which could be used far more effectively in other areas.

Excluding Malthouse at Carlton, the final 6 teams in the finals this year all have coaches who were first timers recently and not one had a senior assistant working with them.

[GVGjr]

Excluding Malthouse at Carlton, the final 6 teams in the finals this year all have coaches who were first timers recently and not one had a senior assistant working with them.

I get what you are saying but the Hawks did have Ratten didn't they?

I agree it's questionable if they add a lot of value but I'd like to think we have someone that could transition to the senior job somewhere down the track.

[Greystache]

I get what you are saying but the Hawks did have Ratten didn't they?

I agree it's questionable if they add a lot of value but I'd like to think we have someone that could transition to the senior job somewhere down the track.

He was there this year after being brought in to replace Leon Cameron, but Clarkson is an experienced coach in his own right now. He was also originally an inexperienced senior coach and left to coach his way.

[Mofra]

He was there this year after being brought in to replace Leon Cameron, but Clarkson is an experienced coach in his own right now. He was also originally an inexperienced senior coach and left to coach his way.
It sounds like a strange position, but I'm with you on this in a way.

The evidence is clear with respect to senior "assistants", and to add to that I think coaches learn and grow over time - if a head coach is left to be a head coach, they either fly (the past few premierhsip have been won by coaches at their first club without senior assistants) or crash (Neeld style).
I think B-Mac is the type to fly, given the consistency of his message.

I'm not sure we can rule a line through B-Mac as being a good or bad tactician either way as yet - for most of the first two years teaching players and setting benchmarks for behaviour has been preferenced over wining.

[LostDoggy]

Pretty sure his role is tactics and match day strategy and as you say, I don't see anything screaming out saying tactical genius.

I have never really like him as an assistant and some of the things he has said in the past (ala the Brian Lake Comment) were not very professional.

I would still like to see an experienced assistant helping Macca - and that is not taking anything away from him. Many clubs have gone down that path and it can only be a good thing.

I don't see anything that says he is not a tactical genius either.

With regards to Lake, he may well have been right for all we know and I trust Macca's judgement as he has had opportunities to get rid of him.

I would like to see one more assistant though as it looks like we might be one short.

[robb]

So, what does everyone make of our current Assistant Coaching personnel, are there any changes we need to look at or anyone floating out in the market place that we should be looking to add to our group?

We currently have (and please correct me if I'm wrong):

Shannon Grant
Steven King
Rohan Smith
Brett Montgomery

We also have:

Ashley Hansen
Chris Maple

as development coaches, although I wonder if Maple's new role will mean we need to find someone else to assist in this capacity?

We also have Cam Mooney and Matty Scarlett who are helping out on a part time basis again for season 2014.

For mine, we could certainly look at adding another coach to the development side of things and if monetary constraints allow, I wouldn't mind looking at another assistant to join our ranks too. Not necessarily a 'senior assistant' but someone with a fresh pair of eyes from a successful club.

Thoughts?

I wonder how we compare against Collingwood for football resources:

Football Department

Rodney Eade - Director of Football

Marcus Wagner - Football Operations Manager

Tracey O'Connor - Executive Assistant

David Stiff - High Performance Manager/Player Psychology

Derek Hine - National Recruiting Manager

Matthew Rendell - National Recruiting Assistant (Senior)

Dominic Milesi - National Recruiting Assistant

Adam Shepard - National Recruiting Assistant

Michael Armfield - South Australian Recruiting Manager (PT)

Andrew Lockyer - West Australian Recruiting Manager (PT)

Shane Joules - Opposition Analyst

Ashley Collins - Football Analyst

Dane Pearce - Football Analyst

Alex Thomson - Football Analyst

Ashley Close - Assistant Football Analyst

Christian Stagliano - Player Development Manager

Luke Gatti - VFL General Manager

Wayne Connor - Property Manager

Peter Lowe - VFL Property Coordinator


Football Department - Coaching Staff

Nathan Buckley - Senior Coach

Matthew Lappin - Assistant Coach (Forwards)

Robert Harvey - Assistant Coach (Midfield)

Ben Hart - Assistant Coach (Backline)

Dale Tapping - VFL Coach

Craig McRae - Development Manager

Tarkyn Lockyer - Development Coach (Midfield)

Anthony Rocca - Development Coach (Forwards)


Football Department - Sports Science

Bill Davoren - High Performance Manager

Kevin White - Sports Scientist

Michael Dugina - Strength and Conditioning Coach

Marty Girvan - Weights Coordinator

Rowan Bownds - Head Trainer

Lachlan Fooks - Physiotherapist

Chris Howley - Physiotherapist/Rehabilitation Coordinator

Chris Seville - Rehabilitation Specialist

Dean Filopoulos - VFL Conditioning

Blake McLean - Exercise Scientist/PhD Candidate

[Happy Days]

I wonder how we compare against Collingwood for football resources:

Football Department
Derek Hine - National Recruiting Manager

Matthew Rendell - National Recruiting Assistant (Senior)

Dominic Milesi - National Recruiting Assistant

Adam Shepard - National Recruiting Assistant

Michael Armfield - South Australian Recruiting Manager (PT)

Andrew Lockyer - West Australian Recruiting Manager (PT)

Shane Joules - Opposition Analyst

Ashley Collins - Football Analyst

Dane Pearce - Football Analyst

Alex Thomson - Football Analyst

Ashley Close - Assistant Football Analyst


This seems like Collingwood are just employing guys so when everyone whips it out their's is the biggest.

You can cop the 5 recruiting officers (struggle to believe that Derek Hine needs a senior officer behind him; maybe Eddie just hired Rendell because he took a dog whistle meaning from his comments about indigenous players), but 5 football analysts? Does Buckley actually do anything?

[LostDoggy]

It looks like Brendan McCartney has to prove himself again, doesn't it? Somehow, the success the team had near the end of last year had nothing to do with what happened in the box on match day, but was purely attributable to mid-week coaching and team selection.

The contention from many is that Brett Montgomery is taking up space in the box, as are the other assistants, who all just watch the game from up there and hope that the work done pre-game somehow magically bears results during the game.

There are a couple of clichees people need to keep in mind on this matter - the first is, 'Too many cooks spoil the broth'. The use of coaching mentors or overseers is driven by politics not football necessity; it is hedging of bets. It is a way to get the favoured son (Hird, Buckley) into the role with a safety net in place for those who fear he may not be quite up to it yet. (BTW, Ratten is an assistant. Full stop.) My reaction is to wait until he is up to it or pick someone else who is up to it instead of picking one who is not ready and a bet-hedging wingman. Macca is ready. He served a long apprenticeship at Geelong and coached flag sides in the sticks before that.

Which brings me to the other clichee, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Our coaches' box isn't broken. Why would Macca move people around on game day just because they are being beaten in their positions? If you're answer to that is, "so we can win the game", then you probably haven't been paying close enough attention. When players can usefully play in more than one position, then it can be a good tactic to swap them around. When they're having trouble just mastering one position, then there is little value in moving them around. Especially if your strategy is to develop players and structures for the future rather than to win games today. My take on things is that as our players learn more about multiple positions and how to play them we will see more tactical moves on game day.

Have a little faith. We've seen the Macca plan unfold to this point, but as he himself said late season we're only 25% of the way to where we want to be. Personally, I want a coach in charge, not a panel. I want a strong leader in the box who will take responsibility for what happens on the deck during the game as well as for what happens during the rest of the week. I'm pretty happy with Steven King as a ruck coach; Will Minson winning All Australian wan't a fluke, and Tom Campbell has held his own as 2nd ruck. Rohan Smith has moulded a very workable and disciplined backline, and it is set to go to a new level next season. Look at Roughy, Talia, Austin, Young. Shannon Grant has worked to prepare a forward line that looks like becoming a very dangerous unit if the last few weeks of this year are anything to go by. Campbell (again), Dickson, Grant and Hunter have all gone to new levels, and even LJ is starting to show better signs. Moons, Scarlo, Johnno, Ash Hansen (have you heard him speak in the website videos?) and Chris Maple (development coach of the year) are all beyond reproach as specialists. The assistants are there to assist. The head coach is their leader. That's how it should be, and that's how it is at our club. While it is right and healthy to question everything about the way we do things, it is also right and healthy to accept the answer when it is obvious. The Western Bulldogs are among the top few clubs in the competition when it comes to being settled and coherent across every aspect of operation. Everyone is pointing in the same direction and following the same ideals. (FWIW, I reckon the order is Geelong, Fremantle, Sydney, Hawthorn, Western Bulldogs, daylight...Port Adelaide) Gia is a playing (assistant) coach who will naturally shift into a full time role once he hangs up the boots. That will complete our coaching group for a while (at least until one of them is poached for senior role) and they will try to stay together to make the most of what is, hopefully, going to be a very rewarding time for the club. Here endeth the rant :)

[ratsmac]

It looks like Brendan McCartney has to prove himself again, doesn't it? Somehow, the success the team had near the end of last year had nothing to do with what happened in the box on match day, but was purely attributable to mid-week coaching and team selection.

The contention from many is that Brett Montgomery is taking up space in the box, as are the other assistants, who all just watch the game from up there and hope that the work done pre-game somehow magically bears results during the game.

There are a couple of clichees people need to keep in mind on this matter - the first is, 'Too many cooks spoil the broth'. The use of coaching mentors or overseers is driven by politics not football necessity; it is hedging of bets. It is a way to get the favoured son (Hird, Buckley) into the role with a safety net in place for those who fear he may not be quite up to it yet. (BTW, Ratten is an assistant. Full stop.) My reaction is to wait until he is up to it or pick someone else who is up to it instead of picking one who is not ready and a bet-hedging wingman. Macca is ready. He served a long apprenticeship at Geelong and coached flag sides in the sticks before that.

Which brings me to the other clichee, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Our coaches' box isn't broken. Why would Macca move people around on game day just because they are being beaten in their positions? If you're answer to that is, "so we can win the game", then you probably haven't been paying close enough attention. When players can usefully play in more than one position, then it can be a good tactic to swap them around. When they're having trouble just mastering one position, then there is little value in moving them around. Especially if your strategy is to develop players and structures for the future rather than to win games today. My take on things is that as our players learn more about multiple positions and how to play them we will see more tactical moves on game day.

Have a little faith. We've seen the Macca plan unfold to this point, but as he himself said late season we're only 25% of the way to where we want to be. Personally, I want a coach in charge, not a panel. I want a strong leader in the box who will take responsibility for what happens on the deck during the game as well as for what happens during the rest of the week. I'm pretty happy with Steven King as a ruck coach; Will Minson winning All Australian wan't a fluke, and Tom Campbell has held his own as 2nd ruck. Rohan Smith has moulded a very workable and disciplined backline, and it is set to go to a new level next season. Look at Roughy, Talia, Austin, Young. Shannon Grant has worked to prepare a forward line that looks like becoming a very dangerous unit if the last few weeks of this year are anything to go by. Campbell (again), Dickson, Grant and Hunter have all gone to new levels, and even LJ is starting to show better signs. Moons, Scarlo, Johnno, Ash Hansen (have you heard him speak in the website videos?) and Chris Maple (development coach of the year) are all beyond reproach as specialists. The assistants are there to assist. The head coach is their leader. That's how it should be, and that's how it is at our club. While it is right and healthy to question everything about the way we do things, it is also right and healthy to accept the answer when it is obvious. The Western Bulldogs are among the top few clubs in the competition when it comes to being settled and coherent across every aspect of operation. Everyone is pointing in the same direction and following the same ideals. (FWIW, I reckon the order is Geelong, Fremantle, Sydney, Hawthorn, Western Bulldogs, daylight...Port Adelaide) Gia is a playing (assistant) coach who will naturally shift into a full time role once he hangs up the boots. That will complete our coaching group for a while (at least until one of them is poached for senior role) and they will try to stay together to make the most of what is, hopefully, going to be a very rewarding time for the club. Here endeth the rant :)


Nice rant!

Things seem to be running smoothly atm but I can't see any harm in adding another tactical assistant as long as Macca feels he needs one.

[LostDoggy]

A great read, RWB54. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say.

But I do want to make a couple of other points. I think it starts totally with recruiting. We are recruiting players with character to do the team sacrificial roles, we are recruiting players to put pressure on players already in the team, we are recruiting quality young men who try to follow instructions to the utmost and who are hungry to learn. This is the absolute core for a Macca philosophy to succeed. No Brendan Fevolas for us because if you play against instructions, have too large a difference between your best and your worst, are inflexible re the roles you are expected to undertake, and are not prepared to sacrifice, then you will not last with our club. This is the Swans' way and the Geelong way.

What this tells us is it's ok to make mistakes and it's ok to lack confidence while you are young and learning. We will provide opportunities and coaching and mentoring to help you along the way until we can see where your ceiling is. We understand that progress occurs at different rates and that confidence can wax and wane as young men come to grips with playing the way we want them to.

It follows that we do not need a million assistant coaches to enforce this. It follows that a core group who can effectively get their message across, and who know exactly what their role is which can be measured behaviourally, and who can nurture, harness and refine, then that should be sufficient.

As you say RWB54, a key ingredient is that we are all pointing in the same direction. For me, the other key ingredient is the quality of the young men we are getting into the team.

[LostDoggy]

Spot on, metal. I believe it's why we won't draft a Dayle Garlett or trade for a Dustin Martin, and it is a big part of why we were happy to see Brian Lake out the door. Sometimes the 'x factor' is not football talent, but preparedness to work, endure pain, willingness to do the team thing or lead by example out on the track. These are highly-prized traits of successful team members and are all on display among our current group. Anyone coming in will have ticks next to those character areas along with their footy credentials.

[Twodogs]

Maybe Bmac saw enough of it at Essendon to sway him away from that model. From where I sat tactically we were fine in enough matches last season to tend me toward the thinking we are fine tactically.

[soupman]

Joel Corey signed up in a developmental role. Source is Mark Hayes Twitter (Jay Clark retweeted it if that makes it more reliable).

[azabob]

Joel Corey signed up in a developmental role. Source is Mark Hayes Twitter (Jay Clark retweeted it if that makes it more reliable).

Or less reliable?