2014: Liam Jones: Deep or High Forward?

[bulldogtragic]

With Stew in the set up, Grant's resurgence and other options, What's the best place forward for Jones?

Do we play him out of the square and use his contested marking closer to goal, or do we use his athleticism as a roaming high-ish CHF and have Stew, Grant, Hunter as the mid options with the long bomb to Campbell and Dahl/Gia crumbing?

I think there are arguments for both.

[SonofScray]

His kicking lacks penetration so if we want him hitting the scoreboard, he needs to play deep. Accuracy suffers a lot for set shots once he is 35+ m out I believe. I think that is the best spot to exploit his elite marking skills at this stage.

However, given the unexpected rise of Campbell and the likelihood of having goal kickers like Grant, Crameri and Stringer setting up deep it would make sense to step up Jones' responsibility a bit as a CHF and demand a high work rate from him leading up the field and taking those contested marks up around the wing, half forward. He certainly took some good marks last season on the back of that hard running to present.

Agree with the OP, it could easily be a case of both.

His defensive pressure improved a lot in '13, but he ran under the footy more often up the field as well. If he irons things out we've got a good option either way.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He's not a deep forward, struggles to play that role with regularity. He tends to ball watch and try to wrestle/mark with one hand when he plays deep. These aren't his strengths, and on the contrary, when he's played as a CHF that is when he plays his best football because he can use his leap, pace and strong hands to advantage.

The problem is that he is not fit enough to play CHF at the top level (yet).

[Happy Days]

He's not a deep forward, struggles to play that role with regularity. He tends to ball watch and try to wrestle/mark with one hand when he plays deep. These aren't his strengths, and on the contrary, when he's played as a CHF that is when he plays his best football because he can use his leap, pace and strong hands to advantage.

The problem is that he is not fit enough to play CHF at the top level (yet).

Agree with this.

Plus;

He isn't great when the ball is on the ground; not due to a lack of agility, but a lack of composure; it's almost like you can see his mind ticking over trying to figure out what to do. This is magnified inside 50 where space is at a minimum and pressure is at a maximum. At least being elevated up the ground will help give him more time to make good decisions.

Also, I feel like his field kicking is not lauded enough, it's pretty good. I'd be very confident with Liam spotting up targets inside 50.

[Ghost Dog]

High Forward when against the ropes. Deep forward when we have the run of the midfield.

[soupman]

He's not a deep forward, struggles to play that role with regularity. He tends to ball watch and try to wrestle/mark with one hand when he plays deep. These aren't his strengths, and on the contrary, when he's played as a CHF that is when he plays his best football because he can use his leap, pace and strong hands to advantage.

The problem is that he is not fit enough to play CHF at the top level (yet).


Agree with this.

Plus;

He isn't great when the ball is on the ground; not due to a lack of agility, but a lack of composure; it's almost like you can see his mind ticking over trying to figure out what to do. This is magnified inside 50 where space is at a minimum and pressure is at a maximum. At least being elevated up the ground will help give him more time to make good decisions.

Also, I feel like his field kicking is not lauded enough, it's pretty good. I'd be very confident with Liam spotting up targets inside 50.

Agree with both of these.

Jones is best when he is forced to run and launch at the marking contest, something which he doesn't do when the ball is kicked on his head. And I'd say that with Gia he is just about our best forward at delivering the ball to players on the lead. I think CHF is his go.

[always right]

Agree with Soupaman. I don't think we try and hide any deficiencies by playing him deep....which doesn't suit him anyway. We play him where we need him to play and that is CHF. If he can't perform in that position then he will be playing in the Magoos more often than not. I have confidence that 2014 could be his breakout year.....another pre-season under his belt, another year of coaching from Mooney, the addition of Crameri and the support of Grant, Stringer and Campbell means that he has everything in his favour. Really no excuses.

[Remi Moses]

I second that notion.
No more excuses it's now or never, he has support down there now .

[ratsmac]

He's not a deep forward, struggles to play that role with regularity. He tends to ball watch and try to wrestle/mark with one hand when he plays deep. These aren't his strengths, and on the contrary, when he's played as a CHF that is when he plays his best football because he can use his leap, pace and strong hands to advantage.

The problem is that he is not fit enough to play CHF at the top level (yet).

I couldn't of said it better myself TBB.
Liam plays with a lot more confidence when he is high up the field and with more space to move. He rarely takes a pack mark from the goal square. He still has plenty of improvement though. Definitely a make or break year IMO.

[Mofra]

He is part of a forward-line that should allow us a mismatch in height/marking ability/pace/strength is one of Grant, Stinger or Crameri.

TBH I am more concerned about how we exploit a mismatch with on of these guys than I am about whether Jones plays high or deep - I imagine that much will depend on the opposition; a pure stopper will be dragged high as their rebound wont worry us as much and they wont be able to help out 3rd man up when kicking long to a Campbell/Cordy/Crameri.

A more offensive defender will be dragged deep. This still gives Jones the option of leading long if we need that release from HB - but with Crameri (and potentially Stringer) running around, he wont play a lone hand anymore.

[SquirrelGrip]

I've said this before but I think we need to train him up as a swing man capable of filling in down back and potentially switching with Roughie. He's got more opportunity of creating a mismatch if he can play at each end, and his marking strength is probably the best in our team.

[soupman]

I've said this before but I think we need to train him up as a swing man capable of filling in down back and potentially switching with Roughie. He's got more opportunity of creating a mismatch if he can play at each end, and his marking strength is probably the best in our team.

I would prefer we train him up to be good in one position before we try and train him up to be good in two.

[Dazza]

He needs to model his game on Reiwoldt.

Unfortunately I doubt his tank will ever reach that level.

[always right]

He needs to model his game on Reiwoldt.

Unfortunately I doubt his tank will ever reach that level.

Nick Riewoldt is a freak. Jones should try modelling himself on someone closer to his skillset.....perhaps someone like Darling but not playing as deep.

[jeemak]

Nick Riewoldt is a freak. Jones should try modelling himself on someone closer to his skillset.....perhaps someone like Darling but not playing as deep.

Riewoldt is a freak, but if Jones could take some lessons on how he continually presents and works for his team (sans being a diving wanker) then it will make him a better player.

With each of Grant, Crameri and Jones being mobile we need to position them on the ground reactive to the type of defenders played on them in the second instance. In the first case we need to play to our strengths, and for me that would see Grant in a forward pocket alongside Campbell, and Jones with Crameri on the half forward line.

If match ups dictate a miss match can be found through any of them either being more athletic and or strong for their direct opponents we make them change from low to high, or vice versa so long as it fits within our strategy.

I don't want to get caught in a position where our forward six is continually seeking potential advantage over their defenders at the expense of a consistent and productive structure.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=jeemak;355392]Riewoldt is a freak, but if Jones could take some lessons on how he continually presents and works for his team (sans being a diving wanker) then it will make him a better player.QUOTE]

Sorry, jeemak, but as much as what you say is true about Liam being a better player if he presents more, he just doesn't have the tank to continually present. He can be explosive off the mark, but he fades very quickly with repeat efforts. Very quickly. Riewoldt is all tank; just runs his opponents into the ground, something that I doubt Liam will ever be able to do. I think he will provide best value as a CHF who doesn't go too far from home.