Footy journalism - the good, the bad and the ugly

[Dry Rot]

Dunno if this has been posted, but check out the afl.com view of our draft - the bold bit


We say
The Bulldogs were happy to focus on youth at the national draft, having acquired Stewart Crameri and Sam Darley in the trade period. They snared Marcus Bontempelli, a tall midfielder who can win his own ball, with selection No.4 and competitive small forward/midfielder Mitch Honeychurch. They also collected 23-year-old Norwood premiership defender/forward Matthew Fuller at No.42, and were rapt to land Honeychurch at No.60, with the Eastern Ranges youngster to provide more midfield depth with his appetite for the contested ball. They'd be happy having landed Crameri in particular and look to have strengthened their attack further with Fuller, who kicked a famous long goal in the 2013 SANFL Grand Final. – Jennifer Phelan

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-27/they-say-we-say-rookie-draft-verdicts

WTF? How poor is that?

Made me think of a whole lot of other rubbish I've read about us and other teams over the years.

And some pretty good stuff, like the journos who went after the Bomber drug cheats.

Footy journalism - what or who is your good, the bad and the ugly?

[westdog54]

Emma Quayle is always a good read, even though a touch of Essendon Bias came out when discussing the Crameri trade.

As much as I was never really a fan, Caroline Wilson's coverage of the supplements saga was exemplary, and its a testament to here that Paul Little and all of the Essendon apologists chose to go with the personal attacks as vehemently as he did.

And yet, Mark Robinson won an award for his coverage of the scandal. Are you *!*!*!*!ing serious?

[Mofra]

Emma Quayle is always a good read, even though a touch of Essendon Bias came out when discussing the Crameri trade.
She always takes the soft, easy articles as she is the junior - but she does it pretty well


As much as I was never really a fan, Caroline Wilson's coverage of the supplements saga was exemplary, and its a testament to here that Paul Little and all of the Essendon apologists chose to go with the personal attacks as vehemently as he did.
Best in the business IMO

[bornadog]

Investigative journalism is dead and has been for a long time. Caroline Wilson, love her or hate her, she does investigate stories and is generally spot on with her claims. Love reading Emma Q, especially her stories into draftees and young footballers. Overall though, a lot of rubbish as indicated by DR, is written up off the back of snippets, tweets and social forums.

[always right]

Everyone loves Emma Quayle but as Mofra points out she isn't asked to do the sort of work many other footy journo's are. Strikes me as more of a features writer than a news-breaking journo.

My biggest criticism of Caro is that her standard modus operandi is to always look for the conspiracy. Guess what...sometimes there isn't one.

[comrade]

My biggest criticism of Caro is that her standard modus operandi is to always look for the conspiracy. Guess what...sometimes there isn't one.

Much prefer that than the boys club protectionism style of Robbo and his mates, too scared to upset their sources and find their access privileges rescinded.

[Happy Days]

Much prefer that than the boys club protectionism style of Robbo and his mates, too scared to upset their sources and find their access privileges rescinded.

Yep; the reason Caro's coverage was so much better than everyone else's is because of a total hatred of the boys club treatment that footballers recieve. Her relentlessness was not only fitting but refreshing.

However, she has a solid tendency to shout whispers through a megaphone; anyone remember the "West Sydney Celtics" articles? Because I sure do.

My main issue with footy writers is that the "news breakers" are either not good writers (Ralph, Stevo), don't appear to actually like the game, just the scandal around it (Caro), or both (Hutchy, Barrett). Whilst the actual good writers are either relegated to fluff journalism (Quale when not writing about the draft) or are starstruck fanboys (Robbo).

No one has hit the balance yet. FWIW I think Quale is the best but I wish they would make David King pen more stuff.

[Ghost Dog]

Yep; the reason Caro's coverage was so much better than everyone else's is because of a total hatred of the boys club treatment that footballers recieve. Her relentlessness was not only fitting but refreshing.

However, she has a solid tendency to shout whispers through a megaphone; anyone remember the "West Sydney Celtics" articles? Because I sure do.

My main issue with footy writers is that the "news breakers" are either not good writers (Ralph, Stevo), don't appear to actually like the game, just the scandal around it (Caro), or both (Hutchy, Barrett). Whilst the actual good writers are either relegated to fluff journalism (Quale when not writing about the draft) or are starstruck fanboys (Robbo).

No one has hit the balance yet. FWIW I think Quale is the best but I wish they would make David King pen more stuff.

Refresh my memory?

Would be great if they could lure Shaun Carney to write about footy. I seem to recall some great insights into footy he had.

[bulldogtragic]

Gerard Whateley for mine. He's sold out a little to the commercial mainstream, but I like a journo who explains and backs up why they're saying what the they're saying.

I got hot and cold on Caro, but her tenacity on the Essendon affair was exemplary journalism.

[Happy Days]

Refresh my memory?

Would be great if they could lure Shaun Carney to write about footy. I seem to recall some great insights into footy he had.

Basically it was a few articles by Caro saying that GWS were going to be coached in part by Tadhg Kennelly, have at least 10 Irish players and be called the Celtics, wearing orange, green and white.

It was like a source was playing a practical joke on her.

[Ghost Dog]

Thing I like about Emma is you see her around a lot, for example the pound cafe or in the outer. Not sure I've ever seen Caro at the footy.

[Greystache]

Thing I like about Emma is you see her around a lot, for example the pound cafe or in the outer. Not sure I've ever seen Caro at the footy.

She leaves once the ball is bounced, I see her on occasion if I'm running late to a match. She has no interest in the game itself.

On the rare occasion she has something worth reading, but most of the time she's just pursuing personal vendettas under the guise of journalism, which is unprofessional and pretty pathetic really. Her stalking of Dane Swan after he had a run in with her son should have been killed in the bud by The Age if they had any leadership.

I like Emma Quayle, but that's because I like the football part of football. If I was interested in gossip/scandal I'd read New Idea.

Robbo is just Joffa in a cheap suit.

[LostDoggy]

Emma Quayle is always a good read, even though a touch of Essendon Bias came out when discussing the Crameri trade.

As much as I was never really a fan, Caroline Wilson's coverage of the supplements saga was exemplary, and its a testament to here that Paul Little and all of the Essendon apologists chose to go with the personal attacks as vehemently as he did.

And yet, Mark Robinson won an award for his coverage of the scandal. Are you *!*!*!*!ing serious?
Who gave the award?

She leaves once the ball is bounced, I see her on occasion if I'm running late to a match. She has no interest in the game itself.

On the rare occasion she has something worth reading, but most of the time she's just pursuing personal vendettas under the guise of journalism, which is unprofessional and pretty pathetic really. Her stalking of Dane Swan after he had a run in with her son should have been killed in the bud by The Age if they had any leadership.

I like Emma Quayle, but that's because I like the football part of football. If I was interested in gossip/scandal I'd read New Idea.

Robbo is just Joffa in a cheap suit.

I quite like Joffa, when he's not at a Pies game.

Caroline Wilson is a flog. She was just lucky that her particular brand of witch hunt journalism was the type needed during the Essendon fiasco. A broken watch is right twice a day.

[Happy Days]

Robbo is just Joffa in a cheap suit.

Disagree, I think Robbo actually has a distinct passion and understanding of the game, which comes through in his speech and his writing (even if he does have difficulty fully articulating himself).

He just needs to get his head around that AFL footballers are his subjects, not his idols of worship.

[Greystache]

Disagree, I think Robbo actually has a distinct passion and understanding of the game, which comes through in his speech and his writing (even if he does have difficulty fully articulating himself).

He just needs to get his head around that AFL footballers are his subjects, not his idols of worship.

The bolded in itself makes him a poor journalist. The intrinsic ability to express yourself is what separates a journalist from other people with an opinion on a subject.

As for understanding the game, I would classify him as no better than the average punter in the stands, and substantially inferior to many just on WOOF alone.

So passion, average understanding of the game, and difficulty expressing his views. That sounds like Joffa in a cheap suit to me.

[Happy Days]

The bolded in itself makes him a poor journalist. The intrinsic ability to express yourself is what separates a journalist from other people with an opinion on a subject.

As for understanding the game, I would classify him as no better than the average punter in the stands, and substantially inferior to many just on WOOF alone.

So passion, average understanding of the game, and difficulty expressing his views. That sounds like Joffa in a cheap suit to me.

You're probably right, which to me speaks to the poor quality of football journalism on the whole; A traditionally bad journalist is still an award winning one and one that I prefer to most others. Think you're underselling his knowledge though.

Would still rather the passion of Robbo than the douchebag superiority of a Jon Ralph.

[always right]

I think Robbo writes well but put him front of a microphone and it's embarrassing. Johnny Ralph is the opposite...confident in front of the cameras but writes drivel.

[Murphy'sLore]

Johnny Ralph is very glib. He seems to say whatever comes into his head at that moment (only judging from hearing him on SEN, never read what he writes)

[Ghost Dog]

Who gave the award?


I quite like Joffa, when he's not at a Pies game.

Caroline Wilson is a flog. She was just lucky that her particular brand of witch hunt journalism was the type needed during the Essendon fiasco. A broken watch is right twice a day.

I've not hear that one but I really like it. FWIW, I would not be surprised if there are a few journo's among you lot. I've often read some posts and thought, hang a tic, this woofer works in media or communications or something.

When I lived in Geelong, they had Cam Mooney, Brad, Chapman writing for the local rag. Was pretty awful to tell the truth.
Denis Cometti is a good writer. He wrote an article once about The Dogs winning the NAB cup and it was interwoven with personal anecdote and insight. Loved it, not just because it was about us.

What do you all think about Martin Flannigan? when I think about it, there are not many people who write well about what happens on field. I seem to recall an article by Clarkson once on defensive tactics that I really enjoyed.

[Bulldog Joe]

I've not hear that one but I really like it. FWIW, I would not be surprised if there are a few journo's among you lot. I've often read some posts and thought, hang a tic, this woofer works in media or communications or something.



Its just that so many media people get their stories from posts on sites like WOOF.

[Ghost Dog]

Its just that so many media people get their stories from posts on sites like WOOF.

I guess I meant more the way they put words together. The craft of it.

[azabob]

She always takes the soft, easy articles as she is the junior - but she does it pretty well





Everyone loves Emma Quayle but as Mofra points out she isn't asked to do the sort of work many other footy journo's are. Strikes me as more of a features writer than a news-breaking journo.
.

Didn't Emma Quayle break the whole Kurt Tippett and Adelaide saga? She kept digging and kept finding stuff and kept writing about it? Not many big stories are broken these days that shock the footy world, but I'd suggest that one and the Essendon saga are the only ones of recent times?

[lemmon]

Didn't Emma Quayle break the whole Kurt Tippett and Adelaide saga? She kept digging and kept finding stuff and kept writing about it? Not many big stories are broken these days that shock the footy world, but I'd suggest that one and the Essendon saga are the only ones of recent times?

Social media is killing it, a source used to need a journalist as a voice piece. Now they can chuck it on twitter and wait for it to explode. Its why Carros work was so good around the Essendon scandal, she uncovered a lot others hadn't found

[Remi Moses]

Mark Robinson's grown on me ( looks like an unmade bed ) but he is passionate
Jon Ralph ( one word ) deplorable
Gerard Whately ( the consummate professional)
Caroline Wilson gutsy performer during the Essendon disgrace she's a footy politics writer, as we have thousands upon thousands of accredited journos it's a different perspective.
Greg Denham ( terrible)
Emma Quayle. excellent articles, and always an enjoyable read
Rohan Connolly. really enjoy his work, but he blotted his copybook during the Essendon debacle . Had his bomber beanie on throughout.

[The Doctor]

Patrick Smith is the best. He's more an opinion writer these days but he is articulate, forthright and very well researched.

Jake Niall also excellent.

Martin Flanagan writes excellent features

[The bulldog tragician]

Greg Baum and Peter Hanlon, both of The Age, each have a turn of phrase that makes them worth reading.. And always appear to have a sense of romance about the Dogs.

[jeemak]

Patrick Smith is the best. He's more an opinion writer these days but he is articulate, forthright and very well researched.

Jake Niall also excellent.

Martin Flanagan writes excellent features

I can't help but think Smith's spot on KB's show irreparably damages his stocks for me. He often wrote about the hubris of others within the game all the while not realising he was indulging in it himself. Up to about 2011-12 I would have agreed with you, but his and KB's slot pretty much turned me off Smith and SEN altogether.



Greg Baum and Peter Hanlon, both of The Age, each have a turn of phrase that makes them worth reading.. And always appear to have a sense of romance about the Dogs.

I like The Age journo's for the major reason they're mainly journo's.


The footy media has adopted the 24 hour news cycle and twittersphere just as readily and as poorly as any other segment of the media. And it's a shame.

[Happy Days]

Patrick Smith is the best. He's more an opinion writer these days but he is articulate, forthright and very well researched.


Patrick Smith hates everything.

[Remi Moses]

Patrick and Caro were at least some of the few journos who took on the Essendon saga

[Torpedo]

Was it Stephen Reilly at The Age who wrote a very insightful article on our modified zoning tactics employed in the Round21, 2000 win over Essendon? The best article on a footy match I've ever read. It was a master class in breaking down and explaining the hybrid style of zoning Wallace employed that night.(Still remember Brereton on TV wondering aloud if what we were seeing was something that was taking footy to an new level).
Can't find the Reilly? article, but his writing over a period of years was some of the best going around. Can't go past Martin Flanagan for some great writing on a range of footy related issues. From Bulldogs to NT footy he is such a good writer.

[Murphy'sLore]

Much of Bob Murphy's writing shows the same spirit as Martin Flanagan. Would love to see Bob take over Flanagan's mantle one day.

[LostDoggy]

Patrick and Caro were at least some of the few journos who took on the Essendon saga

Whether they ripped into Essendon isn't really a good indicator of their journalistic prowess. If I may suggest a better test: which journalist enhances your own understanding of the game at any level?

[Topdog]

Whether they ripped into Essendon isn't really a good indicator of their journalistic prowess. If I may suggest a better test: which journalist enhances your own understanding of the game at any level?

Understanding the behind the scenes working of a club is part of the game.

[Happy Days]

Whether they ripped into Essendon isn't really a good indicator of their journalistic prowess.

Of course it is, how is it possibly not?

[jeemak]

Of course it is, how is it possibly not?

Patrick Smith has a vendetta against Essendon (for whatever reason) and this has clearly showed since he relinquished his membership after Knights got sacked.

Not sure about Wilson though.

[LostDoggy]

Of course it is, how is it possibly not?

It's the difference between journalism and gossip. Too many footy journos today blur the line too much.

[bulldogtragic]

It's starting to get absurd now.

Case 1. Tom 'maybe, could, possibly, thinks, guess' Browne says clubs with larger sore salary cap like Dogs and others could go after Jamie Elliott - SEN then source this wid guess as to then report Dogs into Jamie Elliott.

Case 2. Michael 'way too many concussions' Barlow says GCS should trade picks 1 & 2 for the Crouch brothers - Fox Sports then source this to report of a possible mega trade involving Pick 1 & 2 for Adelaide superstar brothers.


For *!*!*!*! sake enough already. It's a humancentipad. If you can't be actual journalists, then just try to source no write like one. Next Twitter & Facebook nuffie comments will replace real sourcing all together. This shouldn't be that hard. Don't read/hear baseless stupid unfounded guesses/rumours and then use said baseless stupid unfounded guesses/rumours as a source of your own reporting.

[The Adelaide Connection]

It's starting to get absurd now.

Case 1. Tom 'maybe, could, possibly, thinks, guess' Browne says clubs with larger sore salary cap like Dogs and others could go after Jamie Elliott - SEN report Dogs into Jamie Elliott.

Case 2. Michael 'way too many concussions' Barlow says GCS should trade picks 1 & 2 for the Crouch brothers - Fox Sports report of a possible mega trade involving Pick 1 & 2 for Adelaide superstar brothers.


For *!*!*!*! sake enough already. If you can't be actual journalists, then just try to source no write like one. Next Twitter & Facebook nuffie comments will replace real sourcing all together. This shouldn't be that hard.

I wouldn’t give pick 1 for both of the Crouch brothers.

[Flamethrower]

It's the old saying...if a myth, lie or mistruth is repeated often enough it will eventually be accepted by the unwashed and brainwashed majority as a fact.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's starting to get absurd now.

Case 1. Tom 'maybe, could, possibly, thinks, guess' Browne says clubs with larger sore salary cap like Dogs and others could go after Jamie Elliott - SEN then source this wid guess as to then report Dogs into Jamie Elliott.

Case 2. Michael 'way too many concussions' Barlow says GCS should trade picks 1 & 2 for the Crouch brothers - Fox Sports then source this to report of a possible mega trade involving Pick 1 & 2 for Adelaide superstar brothers.


For *!*!*!*! sake enough already. It's a humancentipad. If you can't be actual journalists, then just try to source no write like one. Next Twitter & Facebook nuffie comments will replace real sourcing all together. This shouldn't be that hard. Don't read/hear baseless stupid unfounded guesses/rumours and then use said baseless stupid unfounded guesses/rumours as a source of your own reporting.

You should add "don't take wild hypothetical and implausible guesses, that you then report as a source"

[bulldogtragic]

You should add "don't take wild hypothetical and implausible guesses, that you then report as a source"

With the rate of journalist cut backs, and the employed ones mainly no good (not all). Soon articles will just be a collection of tweets attempting to make a point, that's not far off where we are now when a Barlow brain fart is the source for Fox Sports.

[Bulldog Joe]

With the rate of journalist cut backs, and the employed ones mainly no good (not all). Soon articles will just be a collection of tweets attempting to make a point, that's not far off where we are now when a Barlow brain fart is the source for Fox Sports.

Be careful denigrating tweeted brain farts. They could get someone elected to President of the Free World.

[Bulldog4life]

Be careful denigrating tweeted brain farts. They could get someone elected to President of the Free World.

Agree 100% BJ but I have changed one word. Be careful denigrating tweeted brain farts. They could get some nut elected to President of the Free World

[Hotdog60]

Someone should tweet some bullsh#t to someone like Browne like Wines had enough of Port and is interested in joining the Dogs.
See how far it goes.

[Twodogs]

It's the old saying...if a myth, lie or mistruth is repeated often enough it will eventually be accepted by the unwashed and brainwashed majority as a fact.

Goring and Goebbels sold it to Hitler as the Big Lie;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie


At first they came for the jews...

[bulldogtragic]

Just watched a clip of 7 news that Stevo retweeted of the afternoon news anchor. On Keath the anchor says: “despite being seen at St Kilda head quarters a couple of week ago, he’s likely to end up at the bulldogs.”

What gave it away you geniuses? The press releases from Adelaide & Bulldogs about it, the official player request from Keath to the bulldogs specifically, Sam Power’s video about securing Keath as he as nominated us, or something else.

Quality work. Mention touring St Kilda and leave out entirely the whole nominating bulldogs bit...

[Rocket Science]

For a thread with origins back to a time when Lukas Markovic was wearing our colours how on earth are we only 4 pages deep?

[Funke disco]

Just watched a clip of 7 news that Stevo retweeted of the afternoon news anchor. On Keath the anchor says: “despite being seen at St Kilda head quarters a couple of week ago, he’s likely to end up at the bulldogs.”

What gave it away you geniuses? The press releases from Adelaide & Bulldogs about it, the official player request from Keath to the bulldogs specifically, Sam Power’s video about securing Keath as he as nominated us, or something else.

Quality work. Mention touring St Kilda and leave out entirely the whole nominating bulldogs bit...

Football journalism is small and insular. Unfortunately, most are compromised and cannot speak freely, afraid to rock the boat, or, they are megaphones for the club they barrack for Eg. Mark Stevens and Sam Landsberger (I like both by the way as I am bias and they are bulldogs) I do like Mick Warner. Only Journo to fly the flag for the Dogs with relation to the Talia affair, taking issue with the AFL on a number of other occasions. The AFL rewarded him for his efforts by stripping him of his media accreditation.

[Murphy'sLore]

Football journalism is small and insular. Unfortunately, most are compromised and cannot speak freely, afraid to rock the boat, or, they are megaphones for the club they barrack for Eg. Mark Stevens and Sam Landsberger (I like both by the way as I am bias and they are bulldogs) I do like Mick Warner. Only Journo to fly the flag for the Dogs with relation to the Talia affair, taking issue with the AFL on a number of other occasions. The AFL rewarded him for his efforts by stripping him of his media accreditation.

Did they? That's appalling. North Korea-esque. Not surprised, mind you, just disgusted.

[Scorlibo]

I think Cal Twomey and Marc McGowan are the best in the business at this time of the year on the AFL site. I feel sorry for the two of them having to deal with 'Damo' as a colleague.

[mjp]

I think Cal Twomey and Marc McGowan are the best in the business at this time of the year on the AFL site. I feel sorry for the two of them having to deal with 'Damo' as a colleague.

The other journos all like Barrett. If you ever speak negatively about him to one of the others they pretty consistently leap to his defence.

[Bulldog Revolution]

The other journos all like Barrett. If you ever speak negatively about him to one of the others they pretty consistently leap to his defence.

I don’t like the way Barrett has covered us over the last couple of years but I concede he is pretty good at what he does - he is prepared to speak his mind, he calls out some of the bluff and bluster - and I’m hopeful that Bevo and Damo can move to a better place - it’s not productive for anyone

[AshMac]

I don’t like the way Barrett has covered us over the last couple of years but I concede he is pretty good at what he does - he is prepared to speak his mind, he calls out some of the bluff and bluster - and I’m hopeful that Bevo and Damo can move to a better place - it’s not productive for anyone

Think that shop has sailed. Barrett needs the Bevo feud, it’s the only thing that gives him any relevance

[bulldogtragic]

The Good: Sam Landsberger
Forum: Twitter
Topic: Article on our strong interest in Ben King

Dickhead Essendon User John: With Jamarra coming to the club next year. Taking up their first rounder. Plus other NGA and FS picks in the same draft. What does the club have to offer compared to saints and other clubs ? Come on Sam.

Sam: I reckon the club probably knew that when it started making inquiries. Come on John.