Financial Results

[LostDoggy]

$143,090 loss for the year ending 31 October 2013.

I actually think considering our membership drop-off, draw (Commercially) and deliberate strategy of directing more money into the footy dept, it's not too bad.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not happy with any loss, nor should the club be.

Does Garlick or someone else take the hit on this?

[LostDoggy]

I'm not happy with any loss, nor should the club be.

Does Garlick or someone else take the hit on this?

Calm the farm. It all depends on the figures behind the loss. Garlick cannot control external influences.

If it's mismanagement, fine, but I'd wager it's due to the reasons stated above.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not happy with any loss, nor should the club be.

Does Garlick or someone else take the hit on this?

I'm certainly not suggesting that we should be happy with a loss but taking certain factors into consideration, it's not as diabolical as it may have been historically.

[LostDoggy]

I'm certainly not suggesting that we should be happy with a loss but taking certain factors into consideration, it's not as diabolical as it may have been historically.

Revenue increased by $1.3M.

[LostDoggy]

Revenue increased by $1.3M.

Yep exactly. I haven't looked at the results in detail, do you know which areas revenue increased?

[bornadog]

Yep exactly. I haven't looked at the results in detail, do you know which areas revenue increased?

The biggest increase was Hospitality ($2 million), but there were other areas that were up and down.

[bornadog]

The loans are still sitting at just over $4 million and costing over $500,000 to service it. This is still a concern and seems to be a noose around our neck.

[LostDoggy]

The biggest increase was Hospitality ($2 million), but there were other areas that were up and down.


The loans are still sitting at just over $4 million and costing over $500,000 to service it. This is still a concern and seems to be a noose around our neck.

Good that a revenue stream like hospitality is up - very encouraging.

Servicing debt seems to be a massive impediment to our growth

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

The loans are still sitting at just over $4 million and costing over $500,000 to service it. This is still a concern and seems to be a noose around our neck.
The real concern is the lack of growth in memberships, where the gap continues to get greater compared to the membership base of the stronger Victorian based clubs.

[bornadog]

The real concern is the lack of growth in memberships, where the gap continues to get greater compared to the membership base of the stronger Victorian based clubs.

Yes very true, and I still believe the only way to grow the membership is:

1. On field success - must get to a GF and win premierships and have some sustained success for a number of years.

2. This will lead to bigger attendances at games and hopefully we can convert these to memberships. Must capitalise on grand final/finals appearances.

3. Exposure in the media, especially TV, some blockbusters and major games.

[always right]

I'm not happy with any loss, nor should the club be.

Does Garlick or someone else take the hit on this?

Sack him.

[bulldogtragic]

Sack him.
Not saying that at all. I'm saying we hire professionals and they should take responsibility for various outcomes. While revenues may be up, there's no real thing as a good $200k loss. Surely when he pitched his vision to the board it didn't include still making large 6 figure losses in 2013. Or maybe he did?, I don't know?

[Topdog]

Did our debt go down?

[azabob]

Not saying that at all. I'm saying we hire professionals and they should take responsibility for various outcomes. While revenues may be up, there's no real thing as a good $200k loss. Surely when he pitched his vision to the board it didn't include still making large 6 figure losses in 2013. Or maybe he did?, I don't know?

What about a good $143 K loss....

[bulldogtragic]

Did our debt go down?
No. The loss is fractionally more, just.

[GVGjr]

We missed our target membership numbers by a fair bit which probably covers half of the loss and I think there would be enormous costs in getting the VFL side started.

Like most years, I was hoping for a $300,000 profit and to see the debt come down by 10%

Membership and sponsorships are the keys for us.

[bornadog]

Did our debt go down?

Marginally

[bulldogtragic]

Marginally
I thought it was up a smidge?

[lemmon]

Could the VFL side be an overstretch? Great to spend money but if its money we don't have we are digging a fair hole

[Remi Moses]

Could the VFL side be an overstretch? Great to spend money but if its money we don't have we are digging a fair hole

I'd be certain it isn't an over commitment on the clubs behalf .
Wonder if the Vic Uni sponsorship is playing a significant part.
Just wonder if it went through the Auditor Eddie Mcguire

[ledge]

I hope we have already paid for the VFL team this year then it doesn't look so bad

[bulldogtragic]

I hope we have already paid for the VFL team this year then it doesn't look so bad
This.

It's hard to ask for everyone to give you money that could be otherwise theirs, when at the same time your spending hundreds of thousands of dollars while making loses.

If it doesn't include it, Maybe we need to sell more games, Tassie?

[Remi Moses]

What about the disadvantage of playing at Etihad .
Heard The Prez say we're at least a million down before the season starts.

[AndrewP6]

The Dees have posted a loss of $1.7 million, even with the $1.45 million given to them by the AFL. So we're not too bad :)

[LostDoggy]

What about the disadvantage of playing at Etihad .
Heard The Prez say we're at least a million down before the season starts.

For some reason even our own members keep forgetting this. It needs to be shouted out every single time we discuss the club finances. So should "Sunday twilight" and "60 weeks without a Friday night." Suspect if equalisation was factored in we would make as or a more significant profit than the big wankers down the road.... Eddie "it's mine, its all mine <insert crazy laughter>" McGuire needs to take a walk in those unequal shoes...

[LostDoggy]

Not saying that at all. I'm saying we hire professionals and they should take responsibility for various outcomes. While revenues may be up, there's no real thing as a good $200k loss. Surely when he pitched his vision to the board it didn't include still making large 6 figure losses in 2013. Or maybe he did?, I don't know?
If a loss has come from investments into something like a VFL team that can't be seen as an asset financially but is expected to pay dividends later, then yes, you have an ok loss.

This.

It's hard to ask for everyone to give you money that could be otherwise theirs, when at the same time your spending hundreds of thousands of dollars while making loses.

If it doesn't include it, Maybe we need to sell more games, Tassie?

If I had it, I'd chip in the $143k to never hear you mention Tassie again. :)

[bornadog]

I thought it was up a smidge?

Debt is what you owe, which was down a bit . BT you are talking about the loss which is up as you say.

[jeemak]

None of it actually matters.

As long as we demonstrate we have processes in place to invest in prudent investments, wipe out erroneous debt and be all round good guys that play by the rules we're OK.

I do struggle to understand how the AFL can let clubs (which they absolutely need) service historical debt to the tune of $500K a year. That actually staggers me.

Anyway, another year, another so so financial report and more of the same issues we've always faced.

:)

[Remi Moses]

Yep. Some carry on like it's the Australian profit league.

[Remi Moses]

For some reason even our own members keep forgetting this. It needs to be shouted out every single time we discuss the club finances. So should "Sunday twilight" and "60 weeks without a Friday night." Suspect if equalisation was factored in we would make as or a more significant profit than the big wankers down the road.... Eddie "it's mine, its all mine <insert crazy laughter>" McGuire needs to take a walk in those unequal shoes...

We're playing with 2 arms tied behind our back.

[Hotdog60]

The convention centre could also be causing a drain on resources, in development lots of money goes in and nothing comes out.

[always right]

I don't care what crap deal we have with Etihad Stadium...we'll never make money while we attract crowds of less than 25k. Attendance by supporters at our games this year was deplorable even in the last eight weeks. Membership is our biggest problem and getting those members to attend games is not far behind. With an outstanding off season and the expectation of improved peformance in 2014 it will be interested to see if this translates to bums on seats.

[LostDoggy]

Yep. Some carry on like it's the Australian profit league.

Yep and I can bet depreciation on our facilities is a bit factor on this. Even so this is a small loss in the grand scheme of things. I have faith that the right team is in place and they have done a good job in a year in which we only won a handful of games. Look at Brisbane and Melbourne as a comparison.

[bornadog]

I don't care what crap deal we have with Etihad Stadium...we'll never make money while we attract crowds of less than 25k. Attendance by supporters at our games this year was deplorable even in the last eight weeks. Membership is our biggest problem and getting those members to attend games is not far behind. With an outstanding off season and the expectation of improved peformance in 2014 it will be interested to see if this translates to bums on seats.

In 2012 we had the lowest average attendance since 1996. This year it was up marginally from last year.

[bornadog]

Yep. Some carry on like it's the Australian profit league.

Not sure what you mean by that statement.

The financial position of the club is important for not only our long term survival but potentially the difference between being successful, or not, on the field. Collingwood spent $22 million on the footy department, we spent $16 million. Collingwood made a profit of $5 million and they can plough that back into the footy department if they wish and widen the gap even more.

We need to wipe the debt, build the membership and spend more on the football department.

[always right]

In 2012 we had the lowest average attendance since 1996. This year it was up marginally from last year.

So 2013 was a marginally less crap year than 2012. I feel much better now:rolleyes:

[bornadog]

So 2013 was a marginally less crap year than 2012. I feel much better now:rolleyes:

Actually, I just checked and 2013 was worse than 2012.

[comrade]

We could always just recruit a bunch of hacks, implement an impotent development program, tank over a number of years plus hire a dud coach so we're that deep in the shit the AFL will throw money at us.

Worked for Melbourne.

[bornadog]

We could always just recruit a bunch of hacks, implement an impotent development program, tank over a number of years plus hire a dud coach so we're that deep in the shit the AFL will throw money at us.

Worked for Melbourne.

The figures include almost $3 million from the AFL

[LostDoggy]

I don't care what crap deal we have with Etihad Stadium...we'll never make money while we attract crowds of less than 25k. Attendance by supporters at our games this year was deplorable even in the last eight weeks. Membership is our biggest problem and getting those members to attend games is not far behind. With an outstanding off season and the expectation of improved peformance in 2014 it will be interested to see if this translates to bums on seats.

Tend to agree mate. Last two years we've made losses, which coincides with poor on-field performance also in those years. We've always been a club that can't afford to bottom out or it hits the bottom line big time.

[LostDoggy]

Whether this should go in the Bulldoze the debt thread, or here, the basic numbers are that around a hundred dollars of donations from each member (our average m/ship of say 30K per year), would almost wipe the historical debt.

The figure are basic and obviously some can afford more, some can't afford anything and some already pour thousands into the club through membership options - but the point is that i think we need one solid season of debt reduction marketing like Richmond and Melbourne have done in recent years.

There's nothign revolutionary in this, but i don't recall the BTD campaign being pushed, publically, for a couple of years.

[bornadog]

Whether this should go in the Bulldoze the debt thread, or here, the basic numbers are that around a hundred dollars of donations from each member (our average m/ship of say 30K per year), would almost wipe the historical debt.

The figure are basic and obviously some can afford more, some can't afford anything and some already pour thousands into the club through membership options - but the point is that i think we need one solid season of debt reduction marketing like Richmond and Melbourne have done in recent years.

There's nothing revolutionary in this, but i don't recall the BTD campaign being pushed, publically, for a couple of years.

The club tried that a couple of years ago and reduced the $5 million debt to around the $4.2 million. Not enough people put their hand in their pocket.

[comrade]

The figures include almost $3 million from the AFL

I mean over and above the equalisation funds we receive due to the non-viable commercial terms (broadcasting, fixturing etc) we're forced to accept.

[Ozza]

I don't care what crap deal we have with Etihad Stadium...we'll never make money while we attract crowds of less than 25k. Attendance by supporters at our games this year was deplorable even in the last eight weeks. Membership is our biggest problem and getting those members to attend games is not far behind. With an outstanding off season and the expectation of improved peformance in 2014 it will be interested to see if this translates to bums on seats.

I agree with this.

But if you ever say you're disappointed with the attendance figures during the season/amount of dogs fans turning up - you get beaten from pillar to post on here!!

[KT31]

This is by know means directed at you Ozza.

Being disappointed in attendance is one thing but there has been the odd inference that those who do not attend games are doing the wrong thing, don't care as much and are not as passionate about the Dog's as those that do.
I can only speak for myself ( and I know others will only see these as excuses)but having been to the majority of the games from the eighties until a few years back, I now live 700klms away, run my own 18 hour a day/ 7 day a week business, tied up heavily with the local footy club, have pup's who occasionally play 500klms in the opposite direction and coach kids on the weekend.
I still buy a membership each year and would love to have my family at the footy each week but other priorities have taken over.
I am not on my Pat Malone on here with many Woofers living overseas or interstate, this however does not mean we don't have as much the passion for the Dogs or we don't "Crack In".

[ledge]

Our loss looks very good against Essendons and Melbournes

[Mantis]

Our loss looks very good against Essendons and Melbournes

Not sure we should be comparing ourselves with those 2.

Essendon have pretty much funded their own elite training centre out in the sticks and had huge costs with the drug scandal.

Melbourne are a basket-case... but have little debt (thanks to Jimmy)

---

In isolation our result looks ok when you factor in a drop in membership, poor on-field performances (for most of the year) and increased footy dept. spending.

Going to be an equally challenging year in 2014 when we are already committed to spending an extra $2mil this year (footy dept. & VFL team).. Hope we can find an increase in revenue streams.

[always right]

This is by know means directed at you Ozza.

Being disappointed in attendance is one thing but there has been the odd inference that those who do not attend games are doing the wrong thing, don't care as much and are not as passionate about the Dog's as those that do.
I can only speak for myself ( and I know others will only see these as excuses)but having been to the majority of the games from the eighties until a few years back, I now live 700klms away, run my own 18 hour a day/ 7 day a week business, tied up heavily with the local footy club, have pup's who occasionally play 500klms in the opposite direction and coach kids on the weekend.
I still buy a membership each year and would love to have my family at the footy each week but other priorities have taken over.
I am not on my Pat Malone on here with many Woofers living overseas or interstate, this however does not mean we don't have as much the passion for the Dogs or we don't "Crack In".

No-one is having a crack at people who physically can't attend games. Every year....even in our relatively successful years....there have been supporters like yourself who can't get to our matches. It simply doesn't explain the pathetic support we have received the last two years even allowing for our uninspiring perrformances. There appeared to be no substantial improvement in the last eight games when we were playing an attractive brand of football and getting results.

[jeemak]

Our last four games in 2013 at Etihad saw us play on a Sunday at 4:40pm three times and once at 1:10pm.

The games we played at Etihad prior to that saw us play at 3:15pm on a Sunday on three occasions, and once at 7:45pm on a Saturday as an away team.

What sort of crowds are we going to attract at those time slots, apart from low ones?

I've often thought about the impact these Sunday games being played live on FOX has on our attendances. Essentially, taking the family to four weeks of footy on a Sunday afternoon or evening would be a lot more expensive than paying for a FOX subscription each month.

Our supporter base needs reinvigorating, and perhaps it also needs to get used to watching its team play at shitty times.

The only way we can improve our membership is by playing well at those shitty times and embracing the situation we have, and making the most of it. I hope the club has a strategy for doing so.

A good starting point would be to conduct a quantitative survey of all members, and those not re-signed these last couple of years to see exactly why they don't attend our games.

Finding out what can be done to bring them back to games after the survey is completed would help as well.

[always right]

Our last four games in 2013 at Etihad saw us play on a Sunday at 4:40pm three times and once at 1:10pm.

The games we played at Etihad prior to that saw us play at 3:15pm on a Sunday on three occasions, and once at 7:45pm on a Saturday as an away team.

What sort of crowds are we going to attract at those time slots, apart from low ones?

I've often thought about the impact these Sunday games being played live on FOX has on our attendances. Essentially, taking the family to four weeks of footy on a Sunday afternoon or evening would be a lot more expensive than paying for a FOX subscription each month.

Our supporter base needs reinvigorating, and perhaps it also needs to get used to watching its team play at shitty times.

The only way we can improve our membership is by playing well at those shitty times and embracing the situation we have, and making the most of it. I hope the club has a strategy for doing so.

A good starting point would be to conduct a quantitative survey of all members, and those not re-signed these last couple of years to see exactly why they don't attend our games.

Finding out what can be done to bring them back to games after the survey is completed would help as well.

I think the survey is a good idea. Not being critical of your post but I'd love to know why supporters don't attend because your reasons sound like excuses to me.

[Topdog]

Excuses to one person are real reasons to another.

[bornadog]

Excuses to one person are real reasons to another.

In the past two seasons we averaged around 23500 per game. Compare that to 2009 when we hit 39,000 average for the year.

[Topdog]

football is entertainment.

[jeemak]

I think the survey is a good idea. Not being critical of your post but I'd love to know why supporters don't attend because your reasons sound like excuses to me.

Well, I suppose there's good excuses and bad excuses aren't there?

I know your post wasn't an attack on my attendance throughout the year (which was a little down on what I'd like), but on Sunday's I had family functions to attend, functions with friends to attend and study to work through. These are the types of things that get scheduled on Sunday's, and take priority over attending the football for me and many people.

Why do you think the AFL gives the plum slots to the big teams? Everybody wants to watch football on Friday night, Saturday afternoon, and Saturday night. The reason why? These times are when people are free on the weekends to prioritise football. The AFL gets the biggest exposure, at the best times.

With respect to my comments on FOX, if you can argue against the logic considering the above then fine. I don't know if it's a factor, but wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Make no mistake, I don't think all of our poor attendances are based on our fixture. Though I think its detriment to our cause really needs to be acknowledged.

[Remi Moses]

Not sure what you mean by that statement.

The financial position of the club is important for not only our long term survival but potentially the difference between being successful, or not, on the field. Collingwood spent $22 million on the footy department, we spent $16 million. Collingwood made a profit of $5 million and they can plough that back into the footy department if they wish and widen the gap even more.

We need to wipe the debt, build the membership and spend more on the football department.

We all know that . The point I'm making is the chest beating that eminates among some of the teams.
Unless we get a reasonable playing field it's a futile argument .

[LostDoggy]

Excuses to one person are real reasons to another.

Let's not just talk about having family commitments, etc. I think it needs to be acknowledged and studied, because there are a vast number of our fans who just can't be bothered. Ok, they won't say that, they'll say they have things on, or that Sunday is a bad day, or whatever, but the real reason is they don't make time for going to the footy as other teams do. Make no mistake guys: if Collingwood played Sunday afternoon, they'd still draw fifty.

A good comparison for mine is people leaving the ground before the siren. You hear plenty of real, legitimate reasons for it: have to get the kids home, have to catch the train, have to beat the traffic, etc.

But these reasons only surface when we're getting beaten. When we're winning, all concerns for little Jimmy's bedtime go out the window.

[always right]

Well, I suppose there's good excuses and bad excuses aren't there?

I know your post wasn't an attack on my attendance throughout the year (which was a little down on what I'd like), but on Sunday's I had family functions to attend, functions with friends to attend and study to work through. These are the types of things that get scheduled on Sunday's, and take priority over attending the football for me and many people.

Why do you think the AFL gives the plum slots to the big teams? Everybody wants to watch football on Friday night, Saturday afternoon, and Saturday night. The reason why? These times are when people are free on the weekends to prioritise football. The AFL gets the biggest exposure, at the best times.

With respect to my comments on FOX, if you can argue against the logic considering the above then fine. I don't know if it's a factor, but wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Make no mistake, I don't think all of our poor attendances are based on our fixture. Though I think its detriment to our cause really needs to be acknowledged.

Not sure about the FOX argument......might be valid although we have FOX and we go to every game. We signed up so we could see all the interstate games.