Have you any players you've found harder to love?

[bulldogtragic]

The opposite to the thread about our players. This is not about knocking anyone, rather the differing degrees if unconditional love of many and varied types of players. It goes without saying when players leave the club, they necessary love gets put aside for true feelings.

So, Over the journey, have you had players (who have actually played seniors) test your resolve for unconditional support, be it attitude, personality or lack of application?


I won't knock immature kids. I found the persistence of the club in continually hoping Wight would come on rather trying. I still remain annoyed that Pat Bowden played the 'Tin Man'. He had the skill... I found some players in the 'tool' type category, but I will let others share.

[GVGjr]

Brad Murphy was a player I would have struggled to love had he played more game. He was overly arrogant from the first time he got to the club and apparently flipped off Brad Johnson in a one on one drill in his first week.
I thought he was a selfish footballer as well.

[Twodogs]

Ben Harrison. He really annoyed me. Pack skirting nancy boy.

[Maddog37]

Brad Johnson. Always so grumpy and never seemed to care about the club.

[bornadog]

Brad Johnson. Always so grumpy and never seemed to care about the club.

You mean that guy with the rosy cheeks that never stops smiling.

[Maddog37]

Sorry BAD. My humour doesn't always translate very well at times. I needed the sarcasm emoticon.

[Twodogs]

I think you may have been out sarcasmed there maddog. ;)

[Ghost Dog]

Who was that pest from WA who chucked in the towel pretty early on ? For his girlfriend or other pitiful reason? I liked him so little I blocked out his name....

[GVGjr]

Who was that pest from WA who chucked in the towel pretty early on ? For his girlfriend or other pitiful reason? I liked him so little I blocked out his name....

Schofield

[Scraggers]

Who was that pest from WA who chucked in the towel pretty early on ? For his girlfriend or other pitiful reason? I liked him so little I blocked out his name....


Schofield

Plays for East Fremantle now ... Hasn't changed much.

[Templeton31]

I'm afraid to say Barry Hall. My wife, a Hawthorn supporter who was quite fond of the Dogs and I was slowly converting, thought he was a complete thug based on some of his Swans beahviour. She switched right off the Dogs when Barry arrived and she hasnt come back. So for that I found Barry hard to love. (although I did a pretty good job during that pre season GF....;))

[always right]

At the risk of being howled down........Ed Barlow. I hated the fact we had recruited such mediocrity. He was ordinary with no potential to get better.

[Ghost Dog]

Ed Barlow I liked but for oddball reasons. In terms of his footballing ability, it's hard to argue against you Always Right.
Going further above the state of NSW to QLD, and pretty sure I won't be howled down here, Sherman was more likable in a seagulls strip than he was showing off his tatts among the senior guys. That trade cost us dearly and we badly needed someone of his prototype ( note the caveat) at the time. Unfortunately we got the calendar model. The only winners were the Brisbane Lions.

[G-Mo77]

Justin Sherman.

Tried to make the simple look spectacular. Typical "Look at Me" attitude on the field. So glad he's gone.

Josh Hill

Chris Grant didn't need to highlight to me how piss weak he was. I only persevered because of his talent which he had a lot of. It took a lot of restraint at some VFL games not to let him have it. Peter German did it for me one day in the huddle. :D

I don't think I've disliked 2 Bulldogs players more than these guys. Of course there is Brian Lake as well but at least he backed it up on the ground and had an outstanding career with us.

[azabob]

Justin Sherman.

Chris Grant didn't need to highlight to me how piss weak he was. I only persevered because of his talent which he had a lot of. It took a lot of restraint at some VFL games not to let him have it. Peter German did it for me one day in the huddle. :D

.

Can you expand more the German spray?

[Mofra]

I respected Scott West as a player immensely but heard enough about him off-field to never describe him as "likeable", despite him battling some pretty large personal demons.

[bornadog]

I use to not like some players back in the 1980's, but these days any player that wears the colours I am happy to yell and scream and support. That doesn't mean I won't criticise any players and ask for them to be dropped, if I feel their form doesn't warrant it.

[Ozza]

Andrew Wills.

[Maddog37]

Good call on Josh Hill. He used to make me feel embarrassed with his attack on the ball and when other team fans had a crack at me about it I had no defense as it was all true.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Murray Rance was a very good player for us. His son is just like him, but I saw him dangerously jump into a marking pack with his knee out with eyes only to impact someone's back.
Very ambivalent about Shane Loveless, such a classic egotistical full forward who could get seven goals and spend the evening watching it on replay, then have large parts of the season going missing.

[always right]

Murray Rance was a very good player for us. His son is just like him, but I saw him dangerously jump into a marking pack with his knee out with eyes only to impact someone's back.
Very ambivalent about Shane Loveless, such a classic egotistical full forward who could get seven goals and spend the evening watching it on replay, then have large parts of the season going missing.

Perhaps the most selfish player to have pulled on a bulldogs jumper ever.

[Webby]

Jordan McMahon. A good mate (also a Dogs man) spotted him circa 2003 chain smoking cigarettes at the Duke of Kent Hotel in Fitzroy. After seeing him light up his 9th or 10th, my mate (not easily shocked and no shrinking violet, himself) quietly approached, introduced himself as a Dogs fan. He was initially just checking if it was indeed McMahon, because he did initially think "surely it can't be!?"

After some general chat he asked him if he was injured. McMahon replied that he wasn't.
My mate did convey his disappointment at the level of commitment demonstrated by a young, talented player representing a club which was really struggling on and off the field. He did say something along the lines of "I'm paying this bloke's wages.. The least he could do is lay off the bloody darts!"

Perhaps that story distorted my perception after that, but this lack of commitment seemed to resonate on field. I was really, really happy when he was traded to Richmond. To me, it demonstrated that we meant business. All we can ask for from our players is 100% commitment. They can't control their talent levels. So my mate's description of having to watch his club getting fkd over, puff by puff by what he saw as a spoiled, aloof, uncommitted brat during a Saturday night did get the better of him!

[Twodogs]

Perhaps the most selfish player to have pulled on a bulldogs jumper ever.


Rance or Pinhead AR?



Asa matter of interest is Murray Rance the least likely AFL captain ever? Apart from Wayne Campbell of course.

[LostDoggy]

Andrew Wills.

I'm mates with Willsy up here in Darwin and a better bloke you'll struggle to find.

[1eyedog]

Does the coaching staff count?

Shannon Grant - very good player but couldn't stand him. Had a private school boy hair cut and an arrogant curl of the lip to match it -couple that with a very punchable face and you have a unit that even North Melbourne fans would have a hard time warming too.

Brad Hardie was hard to love and so was Rohan Smith on Matthew Robran.

[always right]

Rance or Pinhead AR?



Asa matter of interest is Murray Rance the least likely AFL captain ever? Apart from Wayne Campbell of course.

Loveless

[Remi Moses]

Andrew Wills.

I think his grandparents found it hard to love him.

[Greystache]

Jade Rawlings was right up there.

[chef]

I'm afraid to say Barry Hall. My wife, a Hawthorn supporter who was quite fond of the Dogs and I was slowly converting, thought he was a complete thug based on some of his Swans beahviour. She switched right off the Dogs when Barry arrived and she hasnt come back. So for that I found Barry hard to love. (although I did a pretty good job during that pre season GF....;))

I wasn't a fan of Barry either.

[bulldogtragic]

Jade Rawlings was right up there.
Oh, I forgot those years... Good call, he never embraced anything about us (IMO), so I never really warmed to him. Nick Stevens who went at pick 2 seemed to embrace the club he actually went to.

[G-Mo77]

Can you expand more the German spray?

Wasn't really a spray just the way he let him know which I loved. When he came to the huddle he stared him down and as he got closer he went and grabbed him in a tackling position. After that he yelled something along the lines of Two arms! F'ing piss weak! There was a few other words spoken but can't remember the exacts. Josh just nodded and put his head down.

[gohardorgohome]

Steve Kolynuik could be brilliant at times....... however he never raised to the level he was capable of often enough.

[jeemak]

I don't suppose I was ever expecting much from Rawlings, considering the bastardy it took to get him to the club completely against his wishes.

Terrible moment in our history, his recruitment.

I really struggled with Stephen Powell. Never seemed to be running fast enough, using the ball well enough. or being disciplined enough.

James Cook was a player I always knew would do something to confirm for me he's a bit of a dill. He didn't ever let me down.

[The bulldog tragician]

Blasts from the past: Mark Cullen, Michael Martin.

More recently, Akermanis. I could never put aside the memory of him as a Lion, doing handstands at the Gabba, one of those finals where we got annihilated, while Scott Wynd was being chaired from the ground in tears, his final game.

[LostDog]

Paul Dooley
Nathan Saunders

[Remi Moses]

Bit tough on Rawlings to be honest.
Put himself forward on SEN in his first year hosting our club corner show.
Agree it wasn't our finest moment the way we obtained him.
Cook was just incredibly frustrating, as he had the ability but not the desire or work ethic to make it.
Latter day version of Shane Loveless

[bulldogtragic]

Paul Dooley
Nathan Saunders
Cut and Paste ? :)

[Remi Moses]

Ricky Jackson and to a lesser extent Tony Campbell.
Thankfully Jackson didn't get a look in, TC was good value in his first year.

[Happy Days]

This one will not be agreed upon.

Boyd.

The hypocrisy of his demanding the most out of the rest of the playing group (admittedly a good thing) whilst being seemingly unwilling to work on his weaknesses really annoys me. As does getting torched by his man the majority of the time.

[jeemak]

This one will not be agreed upon.

Boyd.

The hypocrisy of his demanding the most out of the rest of the playing group (admittedly a good thing) whilst being seemingly unwilling to work on his weaknesses really annoys me. As does getting torched by his man the majority of the time.

I can see it, though it might be a bit of a stretch to suggest he doesn't work on his weaknesses. Perhaps he's not capable of improving on them?

[ledge]

Blasts from the past: Mark Cullen, Michael Martin.

More recently, Akermanis. I could never put aside the memory of him as a Lion, doing handstands at the Gabba, one of those finals where we got annihilated, while Scott Wynd was being chaired from the ground in tears, his final game.

Mark Cullen , Any reason ? He was a quiet bloke who tried but wasn't quite good enough.
Funny you mention him his dad does the courtesy driving at Melton Toyota, had him drop
Me off and pick me up last Friday when I got my car serviced.

[ledge]

Surprised Jesse Wells hasn't got a mention.
Not sure I have anyone I didn't love, just disappointed when we recruited players who I knew weren't up
To it.

[Mofra]

Oh, I forgot those years... Good call, he never embraced anything about us (IMO), so I never really warmed to him. Nick Stevens who went at pick 2 seemed to embrace the club he actually went to.
Can you blame him? He stated clearly and for many weeks that he wanted to play with his brother. Hawks refused a deal, we stole him under conditions that would have us for draft tampering these days (Veale deal).

[Bulldog4life]

I use to not like some players back in the 1980's, but these days any player that wears the colours I am happy to yell and scream and support. That doesn't mean I won't criticise any players and ask for them to be dropped, if I feel their form doesn't warrant it.

Ditto for mean. Once they pull our jumper on I have no hesitation in giving them my full support.

[Happy Days]

I can see it, though it might be a bit of a stretch to suggest he doesn't work on his weaknesses. Perhaps he's not capable of improving on them?

Don't buy it.

Remember how much praise he got for a "defensive" role on Cotchin in one of the Richmond games last season? He used to do like that EVERY GAME.

[jeemak]

Don't buy it.

Remember how much praise he got for a "defensive" role on Cotchin in one of the Richmond games last season? He used to do like that EVERY GAME.

So what you're saying, is that Boyd became one of the most prolific ball accumulators in the competition over a four year period, against the orders of the coaching staff? And then one day just changed, and the coaches praised him for it?

The weaknesses I've identified as being very difficult to change as a mature player are largely skills based. Perhaps he's tried to improve his vision and his disposal but hasn't been able to.

[bulldogtragic]

Can you blame him? He stated clearly and for many weeks that he wanted to play with his brother. Hawks refused a deal, we stole him under conditions that would have us for draft tampering these days (Veale deal).
No, initially. But at some point I would have expected him to realise that the deal was crap, not the club itself. My reading was he never got over the deal, and as a life time tragic I found it harder to love a player that in my eyes never embraced things.

[Twodogs]

Can you blame him? He stated clearly and for many weeks that he wanted to play with his brother. Hawks refused a deal, we stole him under conditions that would have us for draft tampering these days (Veale deal).



I think he wears some of the blame.. He didn't have to sign a contract with us. He could have gone into the PSD or he could have stayed at the Hawks. Instead he chose to sign a very generous contract with us (well before PSD day) and then play the 'poor bugger me' card for the next two years on big money.

I understand he wanted to to go to North (which the big, bad footy club that was so horrible to him facilitated for him to its own cost in the end) and play with his brother but we don't always get what we want.

[The Pie Man]

Both these guys more than justified their recruitment - but at the time, and even early on in their WB careers, I didn't care for them.

Jose Romero & Paul Hudson

Yikes did they prove me wrong - quite the turnaround.


One guy I thought played way too much footy for us was Sam Power - only acceptable stretch of games was playing forward when Bob did his knee in 06...once he went back again in 07 I knew his career with us was done...just not soon enough for me...wasn't a fan

[mighty_west]

Tim Walsh, off field always seemed so full of himself but thought of himself as the next Wayne Carey, his work ethic seemed to be non existent.

Peter Quill, just something about his game didn't cut it with me, was never a fan, thought he was mediocre at best.

Patrick Wiggins, built like Tarzan, played like Jane, always seemed as dumb as bat droppings although he did get in one decent game against Melbourne snagging 3 goals and somehow laying one bone crunching tackle.

[Mofra]

Peter Quill, just something about his game didn't cut it with me, was never a fan, thought he was mediocre at best.
Good guy though - still a Bulldog fan and still attends games

[BornInDroopSt'54]

No, initially. But at some point I would have expected him to realise that the deal was crap, not the club itself. My reading was he never got over the deal, and as a life time tragic I found it harder to love a player that in my eyes never embraced things.

He kicked that bag for us on debut then pretty much went missing. I wondered if the violent manner in which his big nose was broken on the football, actually kind of psychologically scarred him, as violence can.
Did you see it? Man it was a whiplash smash with his nose on the end of the whip. It was the worst broken nose I've seen. I think it could have had a big impact on him like Darren Lehmann was never the same after coming to play for Victoria and Merv Hughes broke his nose in the nets.

[Webby]

I think he wears some of the blame.. He didn't have to sign a contract with us. He could have gone into the PSD or he could have stayed at the Hawks. Instead he chose to sign a very generous contract with us (well before PSD day) and then play the 'poor bugger me' card for the next two years on big money.

Well said. Once you sign, you commit. Particularly on (overly) generous coin. You don't sulk.. I found that particularly insulting. Geez, what percentage of AFL footballers get to go to their first choice club, anyway?..... 5%..? The good ones look on the bright side and move on - like decent professionals. Our mistake was in thinking the guy would have character enough to get over it!

Rawlings made good money on us - a battling club backed by battling people. He certainly received more from us than he repaid on the field. If the wash up is that some of us find him "difficult to like" then them's the breaks. Every year the best 18 year old in the country is drafted by the worst team. The same is true in NFL, NBA etc. even when a virtual child gets up on stage feeling openly sorry for themselves, the average punter finds it immature and petulant.... Let alone a a bloke in his mid 20's. In the US, such conduct bring scathing ridicule, and rightly so!

Perhaps he should've stopped sulking and learned to kick. In the end, I think his attitude and mindset cost him a decent career. As it was, he failed himself and us. I found it ironic that he moved into coaching post-career. Nice guy, but obviously couldn't give himself a 'straighten up and fly right" speech - let alone a group of players!

[Remi Moses]

I think the draft pick Norf got with Jade was Andrew Swallow.
Did they take most of his contract?

[Twodogs]

His knee was bone on bone too. We didnt do a medical or any due diilligince..

[Twodogs]

I think the draft pick Norf got with Jade was Andrew Swallow.
Did they take most of his contract?

We payed some of it. I never saw a breakdown of which club payed how much though

[bulldogtragic]

We payed some of it. I never saw a breakdown of which club payed how much though
I thought I read something about roughly 1/3 of his salary.

As for Swallow, they fluked it. Swallow was being touted first round for ages, but then all the clubs overlooked him on concerns about his kicking. Much like Talia, in which we won big IMO.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well said. Once you sign, you commit. Particularly on (overly) generous coin. You don't sulk.. I found that particularly insulting. Geez, what percentage of AFL footballers get to go to their first choice club, anyway?..... 5%..? The good ones look on the bright side and move on - like decent professionals. Our mistake was in thinking the guy would have character enough to get over it!

Rawlings made good money on us - a battling club backed by battling people. He certainly received more from us than he repaid on the field. If the wash up is that some of us find him "difficult to like" then them's the breaks. Every year the best 18 year old in the country is drafted by the worst team. The same is true in NFL, NBA etc. even when a virtual child gets up on stage feeling openly sorry for themselves, the average punter finds it immature and petulant.... Let alone a a bloke in his mid 20's. In the US, such conduct bring scathing ridicule, and rightly so!

Perhaps he should've stopped sulking and learned to kick. In the end, I think his attitude and mindset cost him a decent career. As it was, he failed himself and us. I found it ironic that he moved into coaching post-career. Nice guy, but obviously couldn't give himself a 'straighten up and fly right" speech - let alone a group of players!

I think we are being overly harsh on Jade. His big trouble was injury and that was also the reason Hawthorn did not make an offer to keep him.


His knee was bone on bone too. We didnt do a medical or any due diilligince..

Yes. His knees were shot and Hawthorn knew. We were far too clever under "The Mastermind" Peter Rohde. A trade year to absolutely forget.

[bulldogtragic]

Hawks got 3 first round picks for Jade and Jonathon Hay on top of their natural picks and priority picks. Then have started a successful era.

Roughly at the same time we bought Veale, Koops, Street with prized picks, topped up with Bassett and Morgan, and used a PSD pick that could have netted a Nick Stevens. At the same we lost Penny, Brown and others. We then drafted horribly. That's the difference between 2008-2010....

[always right]

Another bloke I could never warm to....Danial Hargreaves.

[Sedat]

Todd Curley for me. I know he played many fine games for us but he could be counted on to make 1-2 absolute howlers in every game and gift a goal to the opposition.

Jade Rawlings' attitude with us was rubbish from the get-go. Twodogs and Webby are both spot on the money - don't play the 'poor me' card trying to garner public sympathy while at the same time having your greedy mitts out to collect the big bucks - furthermore if you're happy to be 'the man' and collect the big bucks, you need to handle criticism when you aren't delivering. His kicking for goal stunk and he hated being criticised about this from anyone.

I only hated Aker in his final year. I loved him when he broke filth supporter's hearts in 2002 GF and then backed it up again in 2003 by kicking a bag of 5. I loved the vast majority of his performances for us from 2007 to 2009 - sure he was a wanker off the field but he was exceptional for us on it (up to the 2009 PF that is).

I was dismayed when I heard that we traded away our Harbrow compensation pick on Justin Sherman - never liked him at Brisbane and didn't like him at the Dogs. Front runner and stupid decision maker with ball in hand - those traits never changed at the kennel

[Happy Days]

So what you're saying, is that Boyd became one of the most prolific ball accumulators in the competition over a four year period, against the orders of the coaching staff? And then one day just changed, and the coaches praised him for it?

The weaknesses I've identified as being very difficult to change as a mature player are largely skills based. Perhaps he's tried to improve his vision and his disposal but hasn't been able to.

I didn't say anything about the coaching staff, more that as his disposal numbers have risen so have those of his direct opponent, which has caused us serious headaches before. I liked him more in his more defensive incarnation; hopefully we see a full time return to it.

I don't view his disposal problems as being unable to improve, but unable to play to his limitations. I particularly can't stand it when he has the ball in his hand and tries to kick it like Buckley.

[The bulldog tragician]

Mark Cullen , Any reason ? He was a quiet bloke who tried but wasn't quite good enough.
Funny you mention him his dad does the courtesy driving at Melton Toyota, had him drop
Me off and pick me up last Friday when I got my car serviced.

I guess this is about 'harder to love' not that I had an active dislike or any feeling about being a bad bloke. I feel great respect for those who's been lucky enough to wear our colors but if we're talking about the ones that are harder to warm to, these are mine.

I remember Cullen as being incredibly frustrating with poor choice of options, ditto Michael Martin. I always felt pessimistic when either had the ball in their hands. Neither of them were without ability. Some intangible X factor was missing..

[jeemak]

I didn't say anything about the coaching staff, more that as his disposal numbers have risen so have those of his direct opponent, which has caused us serious headaches before. I liked him more in his more defensive incarnation; hopefully we see a full time return to it.

I don't view his disposal problems as being unable to improve, but unable to play to his limitations. I particularly can't stand it when he has the ball in his hand and tries to kick it like Buckley.

I guess my point is you shouldn't knock a bloke for this, when it's likely he's playing how he's been told to play.

Agree with you I liked him as a more defensive midfielder. Hopefully our coaches acknowledge that's where his value lies these days and play him accordingly. He was superb in the role prior to 2008-2009.

[Happy Days]

I guess my point is you shouldn't knock a bloke for this, when it's likely he's playing how he's been told to play.

Agree with you I liked him as a more defensive midfielder. Hopefully our coaches acknowledge that's where his value lies these days and play him accordingly. He was superb in the role prior to 2008-2009.

You're not wrong, I just thought we got to check our rationality at the door in this thread. Boyd is obviously good, he just pisses me off sometimes.

I've got another one; Kieran McGuinness. Was he as bad as my early teen mind remembers?

[Mofra]

I've got another one; Kieran McGuinness. Was he as bad as my early teen mind remembers?
He kicked 3 goals on Harris in an intra-club to get a few excited, he never developed the tank for AFL level football though

[Twodogs]

He kicked 3 goals on Harris in an intra-club to get a few excited, he never developed the tank for AFL level football though


He kicked 3 on debut too, didn't he?

[LostDoggy]

He kicked 3 on debut too, didn't he?

Played a cracker against Essendon early on if I remember correctly?

[bornadog]

Played a cracker against Essendon early on if I remember correctly?

Kicked 4 on debut against Essendon

[bulldogtragic]

Andrew Macdougall.

I loved Doogs Droogs, but that's it. He seemed just so mentally soft. He 'retired' just as he would have gotten a game or two with our injuries also. I hard seeing boys and men in this industry with talent who just can't or won't apply themselves. If it was me, I'd regret it forever.

[Bulldog Joe]

He kicked 3 on debut too, didn't he?

Yes.

3 first half goals against Essendon.

McGuiness was a very good VFL player, but just not up to AFL standard

[Remi Moses]

I worried about Macdougall when he stated he doesn't want to be a footballer!
He wanted to be a musician.

[LostDoggy]

Liam Picken. Tries his heart out and he's a solid midrange option but for some reason I find him just Meh. I love just about anyone who pulls on the tri's but I just can't get excited by Liam. It's me; not him...

Except when he's on Ablett as I enjoy watching his limpet on a rock routine.

[Twodogs]

Yes.

3 first half goals against Essendon.

McGuiness was a very good VFL player, but just not up to AFL standard


In a drawn game? Same game that Steven Kretiuk kept punching Lloyyyydy's sore hand? Or have I just rolled a bunch of stuff that happened in different games into one glorious highlight filled game in my mind?.

[bornadog]

In a drawn game? Same game that Steven Kretiuk kept punching Lloyyyydy's sore hand? Or have I just rolled a bunch of stuff that happened in different games into one glorious highlight filled game in my mind?.

Yes all the same game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Andrew Macdougall.

I loved Doogs Droogs, but that's it. He seemed just so mentally soft. He 'retired' just as he would have gotten a game or two with our injuries also. I hard seeing boys and men in this industry with talent who just can't or won't apply themselves. If it was me, I'd regret it forever.

I didn't mind Doogs, he actually had a lot of talent but as you said he didn't have the work ethic/ticker/desire to play. He had a great season or two at West Coast early on.

Could have been something.

[always right]

Liam Picken. Tries his heart out and he's a solid midrange option but for some reason I find him just Meh. I love just about anyone who pulls on the tri's but I just can't get excited by Liam. It's me; not him...

Except when he's on Ablett as I enjoy watching his limpet on a rock routine.

Funny....I find him easy to love for the simple reason you know exactly what you're going to get every week. Not the most talented but you never think you're going to get anything other than 100% commitment.