The key to success in 3 to 5 years, our back line.

[bulldogtragic]

I've just been looking at the main two teams I see as potential challengers in 3 or 4 years. It's debatable, but I'm looking at Melbourne and GWS in particular if the rabble they are start getting things on track. Assuming their forward lines stay similar, they both are going to have massive and very, very highly talented forwards.

Melb: Dawes, Fitzpatrick, Hogan, Watts, and some good smaller types like Howes etc.

GWS: Boyd, Cameron, Patton, Jacksch, and some good smaller types, etc.

(EDIT: Sydney ??: Buddy, Tippett, Reid, Membrey)

It's one thing to have a manic midfield to stop the ball from entering their forward lines, it's another thing about strategising on how to combat teams with 4 x first round tall forwards.

At this point, I'm sticking with Roughy at fullback. I'm a big fan of Talia, but I see him like Hargy that a smaller opponent he can run off would be a better suit. Morris will be gone unfortunately, so we need 2 taller types.

3rd Tall Player:

Young vs Watts/Patton: I'm not overly keen on this
Williams vs Watts/Patton: if he could be relied upon, yes for me, but he seems to be favoured forward and perennially injured

4th Tall Player:

Redpath vs Fitzpatrick/Jacksch: I have no confidence in this at this stage
Roberts vs Fitzpatrick/Jacksch: this year will tell us


So following on from this, IMO we need to draft a talented backman highly if possible and appropriate, trade in a backman,find a FA or find someone else on the list. If you're still with me thanks, I'll get to the question, which is, if Jones by years end hasn't turned his freakish talent into a decent goal tally, do we move him into a CHB?

The boy can take a contested grab and opposition teams work him hard, but I'm still never confident in his goal kicking and he still seems to run under the ball a big too much for mine. I've always been a massive fan, but I think he hasn't reached his potential, and so the question goes coukd moving him back assist in facilitating this? It's not as easy as just moving him back, but it seems in the next few years we might need to find another tall backman as the trend I'm guessing by these two teams stockpiling first round big forwards might be to stretch, out muscle oppositions of have hard running talls (ie what Cameron might be like) as the primary goal scoring set up.

How do we prepare today for this? (Just realised I've left Sydney off this list too, as Membrey could be anything) I'm not suggesting any urgency, rather how we would of could plot things going forward with lists like those above possibly all competing with us?

[boydogs]

You're wayyy down the wrong track IMO. Let's start with your assumptions - Jones' biggest weakness is fitness, this would be exposed more as a defender than a forward. Talia is much taller and stronger than Hargrave, I see no reason why he can't compete with anyone. Roughead is going well, Austin can do a lock down job, and Wood & Young are more like Ryan Hargrave 3rd tall types that can step up in a pinch.

If you accept that view of our current stocks, is this still a concern?

[bulldogtragic]

It's not a reflection or thread on current stock in the context of this season, it's looking forward to what might be in 3 or 4 years from now. As it stands, we are most capable to handle Melbourne or GWS this season.

The scenario in which I have laid out is that teams we may be playing against is semi, pre-lim or grand finals may have forward lines with up to 4 big forwards in or rotating through their forward lines. So looking at our defenders now, I'm asking how we might look to develop the back line as I see it as an issue (among others) for the future. I'm not losing sleep about this, I'm asking how we address the fact the our competitors may have very good, very big forwards.

I think Roughy is almost universally seen down back. My comments to Talia and Ryan was that they seem to be decent accumulators of the footy when they play on less than gorillas and counter attack. The comparison was in the context of being a rebounding taller defender which I'd like to see more of as opposed to having to play too deep back. Ie, if there was another tall option we would have more flexibility.

I'm not convinced that Austin will be on our list in 3 to 5 years. Williams is a better option, but I'm not prepared to bank a grand final on his fitness.

As for Jones the initial post only suggested his position be reviewed if he doesn't make a better dint in the goal kicking spread this year. Even Chris Grant for all his forward talent played both ends of the ground, so it's not an attack on Jones. I've loved Jones since I saw his first 5 minutes in the VFL reserves.

So, what I may have inelegantly tried to picture is pre-lim final 2017, against a team with more decent big forwards than is fair. How do we want to see our defence set up in this game?

Tippett, Buddy, Reid, Membrey
Cameron, Patton, Jacksch, Boyd
Dawes, Watts, Hogan, Fitzpatrick

I think it's fair to say it's an area worthy of consideration. Everyone, including me, bangs on year in and year out about getting a KPF. After reflecting on the above potential forward lines above, I'm thinking a KP defender might be of more long term use to the game I've made up above, if we only had the choice of one. Hence the position I've stated that perhaps we use a high pick in the next draft (if possible and appropriate), or look for a trade or FA who can add height, skill and flexibility to our defence in 3 to 5 years.

Or, perhaps that person is already on the list. I'm sure if I said Chris Grant should be a defender after his first few years I'd get some resistance too. I'm not saying we should, but if you use overly simplistic logic Roughead for instance saves 30 more goals a year in his defensive output then what he could kick as a forward. If Jones only kicks 25 goals, but his natural talent focused on defence could save 40 goals a year, then the net in he offers more in defence. And should we need another tall defender or two and none are available, then maybe he goes back and we look for a forward replacement. But to reiterate I'm talking 3 to 5 years away against big, good forward lines. In 5 years time and in games where you think if only we had another defender to shutdown Jarman or had Barry Hall we would have beaten the Saints, I'm saying let's look to what that possible positional deficiency might be. Looking at the lists, I'm guessing it might be KPDs. So that's what the conversation is around, how we might address that.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The backline as a whole is our weakest link at the moment. I've been saying for a while we need to draft another KPD, and we do.

Morris, Murphy and Goodes nearing the end whilst Young/Wood are battlers. I think Roughead, Talia and JJ are good long term players but the rest is unknown with question marks over Williams, Roberts, Redpath, Fuller, Darley etc.

It's an area we need to address quickly.

[Twodogs]

We might trade in an a KPD from another club.

[boydogs]

The backline as a whole is our weakest link at the moment. I've been saying for a while we need to draft another KPD, and we do.

Young talls take longer than young smalls, it doesn't mean we need to draft more of them. I'm comfortable with Talia, Roughead & Austin, but someone like Fletcher Roberts could easily put their hand up after a couple more years development as a starting 18 KPD.

[bornadog]

We need more than a good KPD, we need a couple of players an can take on the small forwards. We have tried Picken and it doesn't work, JJ is still learning and I don't like it when Murphy has to play defensively, it stops our run from the back line . We have recruited a couple of potential players in Fuller and Darley that maybe able yo rake that role on, but it the meantime we have to compromise with what we have.

[bornadog]

We need more than a good KPD, we need a couple of players an can take on the small forwards. We have tried Picken and it doesn't work, JJ is still learning and I don't like it when Murphy has to play defensively, it stops our run from the back line . We have recruited a couple of potential players in Fuller and Darley that maybe able to take that role on, but it the meantime we have to compromise with what we have.

[Remi Moses]

I'd have Port on that list as well
Dogs might look at Jacksh (spelling?)at GWS

[Twodogs]

I'd have Port on that list as well
Dogs might look at Jacksh (spelling?)at GWS


We might (be)look(ing) at someone else.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

We might (be)look(ing) at someone else.

What do you know or suspect please Twodogs?

[Twodogs]

What do you know or suspect please Twodogs?



A player from another club has already committed. If it comes off, it will be the biggest recruiting coup in our history.

[Maddog37]

Frawley or Reid?

[Dancin' Douggy]

TELL US TELL US TELL US!!!!
PLEASE TWO DOGS!!!
At least a hint?
This is the stuff that gets me through the non footy season.

[bulldogtragic]

A player from another club has already committed. If it comes off, it will be the biggest recruiting coup in our history.

OMG. Zack Dawson in the tri colours is a dream come true.

[1eyedog]

A player from another club has already committed. If it comes off, it will be the biggest recruiting coup in our history.

Bigger than Allen Jakovich? I don't believe you!

Seriously, it is mean to state that then log out, cruel really...

[1eyedog]

I've just been looking at the main two teams I see as potential challengers in 3 or 4 years. It's debatable, but I'm looking at Melbourne and GWS in particular if the rabble they are start getting things on track. Assuming their forward lines stay similar, they both are going to have massive and very, very highly talented forwards.

Melb: Dawes, Fitzpatrick, Hogan, Watts, and some good smaller types like Howes etc.

GWS: Boyd, Cameron, Patton, Jacksch, and some good smaller types, etc.

(EDIT: Sydney ??: Buddy, Tippett, Reid, Membrey)

It's one thing to have a manic midfield to stop the ball from entering their forward lines, it's another thing about strategising on how to combat teams with 4 x first round tall forwards.

At this point, I'm sticking with Roughy at fullback. I'm a big fan of Talia, but I see him like Hargy that a smaller opponent he can run off would be a better suit. Morris will be gone unfortunately, so we need 2 taller types.

3rd Tall Player:

Young vs Watts/Patton: I'm not overly keen on this
Williams vs Watts/Patton: if he could be relied upon, yes for me, but he seems to be favoured forward and perennially injured

4th Tall Player:

Redpath vs Fitzpatrick/Jacksch: I have no confidence in this at this stage
Roberts vs Fitzpatrick/Jacksch: this year will tell us


So following on from this, IMO we need to draft a talented backman highly if possible and appropriate, trade in a backman,find a FA or find someone else on the list. If you're still with me thanks, I'll get to the question, which is, if Jones by years end hasn't turned his freakish talent into a decent goal tally, do we move him into a CHB?

The boy can take a contested grab and opposition teams work him hard, but I'm still never confident in his goal kicking and he still seems to run under the ball a big too much for mine. I've always been a massive fan, but I think he hasn't reached his potential, and so the question goes coukd moving him back assist in facilitating this? It's not as easy as just moving him back, but it seems in the next few years we might need to find another tall backman as the trend I'm guessing by these two teams stockpiling first round big forwards might be to stretch, out muscle oppositions of have hard running talls (ie what Cameron might be like) as the primary goal scoring set up.

How do we prepare today for this? (Just realised I've left Sydney off this list too, as Membrey could be anything) I'm not suggesting any urgency, rather how we would of could plot things going forward with lists like those above possibly all competing with us?

I can't see Melbourne having the midfield to challenge us in 3 years - certainly not the midfield depth to even get the ball into their forward line often enough to be honest. As for GWS they will have 7-8 great players but they will have so many holes in their list in 3-4 years that they will not be in position to challenge for a flag unless they bring in the right (and a heap of) very good established players.

[Bulldog Joe]

You raise a good point BT and we always need to be assessing where we are heading.

On Jones, I really have doubts about him in the back half. It is clear that he lacks aerobic capacity and that is very limiting. He just could not cover the repeated leads of a Riewoldt type key forward.

Jones does need to show his worth this year or his AFL future may be limited.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

A player from another club has already committed. If it comes off, it will be the biggest recruiting coup in our history.

Bigger than Barry Hall or Akermanis, wow You've got me excited, You've never let me down yet. Frawley would be awesome but anybody you rate would address the problem identified in this thread:)

[The Underdog]

My real concern currently is our inability to cover quick small forwards. Goodes is too slow, not convinced Picken is capable against the real top line smalls, JJ has the pace but seems to not quite be there defensively (possibly his only defect, otherwise he's perfect). Morris has probably dropped enough speed to not quite be able to cover this like he used too. Maybe Darley or Fuller will get there but it's a hole at the moment. Agree we need a 3rd tall but have belief in the development of Talia & Roughead. Also wouldn't completely discount Austin.
Oh and nice hand grenade Twodogs :)

[wimberga]

in relation to potential recruits, please god let it be Tex Walker.

I know we need backline...but please!

[The Underdog]

I just hope it's a free agent & not someone we have to give up picks for.

[1eyedog]

in relation to potential recruits, please god let it be Tex Walker.

I know we need backline...but please!

Imagine Tex in the goalsquare, oh my!

[bulldogtragic]

Imagine Tex in the goalsquare, oh my!

I thought Tex was resigned for a long time last year??

Curse you TD, this is a monster hijack! :)

[bornadog]

Bigger than Barry Hall or Akermanis, wow You've got me excited, You've never let me down yet. Frawley would be awesome but anybody you rate would address the problem identified in this thread:)

Bigger than Andrew Wills :D

[boydogs]

My real concern currently is our inability to cover quick small forwards. Goodes is too slow, not convinced Picken is capable against the real top line smalls, JJ has the pace but seems to not quite be there defensively (possibly his only defect, otherwise he's perfect). Morris has probably dropped enough speed to not quite be able to cover this like he used too. Maybe Darley or Fuller will get there but it's a hole at the moment. Agree we need a 3rd tall but have belief in the development of Talia & Roughead. Also wouldn't completely discount Austin.

I agree, JJ is our Harbrow replacement, both can be beaten 1 on 1 by the Eddie Betts' and Cyril Rioli's of the world.


A player from another club has already committed. If it comes off, it will be the biggest recruiting coup in our history.

Wow, that's a hell of a call. It would have to be one of the league's best to outrank Hall, Aker & Crameri. Are you worried you're giving too much away here, and releasing this info could affect whether it goes ahead?

My money is on Daniel Talia joining his brother.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

My money is on Daniel Talia joining his brother.

Didn't he re-sign recently?

I would cry with joy if we landed Daniel Talia.

[bornadog]

Didn't he re-sign recently?

I would cry with joy if we landed Daniel Talia.

3 year extension last year

http://www.news.com.au/national/daniel-talia-agrees-to-three-year-contract-extension-with-the-adeliade-crows/story-e6frfkp9-1226596122871 (http://www.news.com.au/national/daniel-talia-agrees-to-three-year-contract-extension-with-the-adeliade-crows/story-e6frfkp9-1226596122871)

[jazzadogs]

Ben Reid is my pick for the cryptic commitment.

As for the actual thread topic, I don't mind the idea of looking for free agents to top up in areas of need once you hit the premiership window. If this team builds as we all hope it will, we will be a much more attractive option to opposition defenders looking to play finals. We have a number of young talls on the list at the moment, and I think the club is doing the right thing by giving them time to develop.

[1eyedog]

Originally posted by bulldogtragic

I thought Tex was resigned for a long time last year??

yeah he did - just a dream.

[GVGjr]

I thought Austin finished the season off well enough to earn a promotion. If Williams is used as a forward I think we have a spot for Austin in the back line.

[bulldogtragic]

yeah he did - just a dream.

A dream for players too, as didn't the Crows do pre Free Agency year massive offer to re-sign him as not to allow him to be able to be a FA? If so, it will be the offers, before the offers for players.

[stefoid]

A pair of Talias down back?

[GVGjr]

A pair of Talias down back?

I wouldn't have thought so. Daniel signed a 3 year deal.

[Mantis]

I agree, JJ is our Harbrow replacement, both can be beaten 1 on 1 by the Eddie Betts' and Cyril Rioli's of the world.



Could be?

JJ is still a fair way off the level Harbrow achieved at a similiar age/ experience level.. Yep, but the potential is there.

[Bulldog Joe]

I thought Austin finished the season off well enough to earn a promotion. If Williams is used as a forward I think we have a spot for Austin in the back line.

Austin did finish the season well, but I see him as limited. He does represent good back up but not sure he warrants a senior list spot.

[always right]

Austin did finish the season well, but I see him as limited. He does represent good back up but not sure he warrants a senior list spot.

And he is an under-sized KPD at best.

[bulldogtragic]

If you add Tom Boyd to this forward line of GWS tonight, geez they are going to be a force. If were playing them pre-lim or similar then to repeat myself, we might need to think about ensuring depth of key tall defenders. Dead set scary stuff.

[Mantis]

If you add Tom Boyd to this forward line of GWS tonight, geez they are going to be a force. If were playing them pre-lim or similar then to repeat myself, we might need to think about ensuring depth of key tall defenders. Dead set scary stuff.

GC too... Lynch (199cm), Dixon (200cm) & Day (196cm)

[bulldogtragic]

GC too... Lynch (199cm), Dixon (200cm) & Day (196cm)

How could I overlook them too!!

It's possible and even more probable that we will be seriously competing at the pointy end of the season in say 2-3 to 5-7 years. In that window GWS and GCS will be also main competition, Melbourne possibly, even Sydney and Hawthorn could still be around the mark in the earlier years too. All with enormous forwards, so if I'm playing list manager I think were better off targeting a tall defender or consider the merits of Jones as a CHB. So looking to finals weeks in the window, I see defence as the obvious area to address. As an aside, I feel like were the odd ones out with our forward line size.

[doggies ftw]

My real concern currently is our inability to cover quick small forwards. Goodes is too slow, not convinced Picken is capable against the real top line smalls, JJ has the pace but seems to not quite be there defensively (possibly his only defect, otherwise he's perfect). Morris has probably dropped enough speed to not quite be able to cover this like he used too. Maybe Darley or Fuller will get there but it's a hole at the moment. Agree we need a 3rd tall but have belief in the development of Talia & Roughead. Also wouldn't completely discount Austin.
Oh and nice hand grenade Twodogs :)

I think JJ is a little underrated defensively, he's pretty good at stopping his man. I reckon the coaching staff would be pretty heavily focused on telling him that while he is a great rebounder and needs to be able to do that, his main job is still being a defender. Pearce is also really good defensively on the smalls, and he probably offers a bit more offensively than someone like Picken, which is why I like him. Still needs to improve this year though. Higgins, Murph and Goodes leave us alright for a few years yet but agree that we need guys like Darley and Fuller to step up when Goodes and Murph go.

That comment is pretty exciting but absolutely torture to spring it on us :P who is it!? The two Talia bros would be great down back but I'm hoping its a gun forward!

[Remi Moses]

If you add Tom Boyd to this forward line of GWS tonight, geez they are going to be a force. If were playing them pre-lim or similar then to repeat myself, we might need to think about ensuring depth of key tall defenders. Dead set scary stuff.

I'd be looking at Frawley, and if we draft a kid by the time they're big enough the likes of Patton, Boyd and Cameron will be unstoppable.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd be looking at Frawley, and if we draft a kid by the time they're big enough the likes of Patton, Boyd and Cameron will be unstoppable.

You've inspired me to start a thread. Yes, I agree.