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Throughandthrough
01-03-2014, 10:48 PM
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/thirteen-months-after-the-drugs-in-sport-scandal-broke-12-afl-players-are-still-looking-for-closure/story-fndv8gad-1226842446681

Thirteen months after the drugs in sport scandal broke, 12 AFL players are still looking for closure
Michael Warner, Mark Robinson From: Sunday Herald Sun March 01, 2014 10:20PM

TWELVE AFL stars including 10 Bombers risk bans after telling anti-doping investigators they thought they had been injected with peptides.

Club captain Jobe Watson, Dyson Heppell and Michael Hurley are among 10 current Essendon players the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority says told its investigators they suspected they had been injected with either Thymosin, AOD-9604 or both.

The others are Tom Bellchambers, Jake Melksham, Heath Hocking, Michael Hibberd, Kyle Hardingham, Tayte Pears and Alex Browne.

Stewart Crameri, now at the Western Bulldogs, Scott Gumbleton, now at Fremantle, and delisted Bombers Ricky Dyson and Sam Lonergan also told ASADA they believed or suspected they had been injected with the drugs while at Essendon in 2012.

But ASADA faces an uphill battle to make any charges stick, with the players unsure what they were given and questions over the legal status of AOD-9604.

Thymosin Beta 4 is a ban-ned substance, though two other variants of the peptide are legal.

And while the world anti-doping body is adamant AOD-9604 is banned, ASADA has been accused of telling *!Essendon in 2012 that the substance was permitted for use.

Whatever the arguments, the 12 players face an uncertain *!future on the eve of the season.

Bombers coach Mark Thompson said the club was desperate for a resolution.

“Hopefully one day soon there will be closure for (the players),’’ he said on Thursday.

Essendon chairman Paul Little said he did not wish to comment on the *!matter.

He denied making a public statement to members.

Aurora Andruska, outgoing chief of ASADA, told a parliamentary committee last week that investigations were complete and briefs of evidence were being prepared.

Retired Federal Court judge Garry Downes will review the briefs.

If a decision is made to take action, players would then be issued with “show cause’’ letters and given 10 days to make submissions before the Anti-Doping Rules Violation Panel ruled on their guilt.

The AFL would then decide what penalties - if any - to impose. That process is expected to take months.

One of the key hurdles ASADA will have to overcome is the circumstantial evidence surrounding Essendon’s use of Thymosin.

In a text message discovered by ASADA, sports scientist Stephen Dank tells former Essendon fitness boss Dean “The Weapon’’ Robinson in August 2011: “Don’t forget how important Thymosin is. This is going to be our vital cornerstone next year.

“It is the ultimate assembly regulatory protein and biological modifier.”

In another text to Robinson, Dank states: “Thymosin is so effective in soft-tissue maintenance.”

The AFL charge sheet against Essendon alleged the texts were evidence “Dank was referring to Thymosin Beta-4” because only the banned type of Thymosin aids in “tissue regeneration and recovery functions’’.

But Dank has denied giving Thymosin Beta-4 to any Bombers players and claims he was referring to the legal variant in the texts.

He has not given an interview to ASADA.

Whether bans could be pursued over AOD-9604 use is also unclear.

In its Drugs In Sport report last year, the Australian Crime Commission determined it was not banned.

But the World Anti-Doping Agency has consistently stated AOD-9604 was illegal from January 2011.

ASADA investigators conducted interviews with every player on Essendon’s 2012 list in April and May last year.

All Essendon players signed medical consent forms at the start of 2012 in the belief the drugs they were being given were approved by WADA.

The maximum penalty for doping is a two-year ban, but given the unique circumstances surrounding the supplements program, any players found guilty would expect to get significant discounts.

The Sunday Herald Sun also contacted Western Bulldogs, *!Fremantle, Lonergan’s manager and Ricky Dyson, but none wished to comment.

bulldogtragic
01-03-2014, 10:50 PM
I'm hoping as far as Stew is concerned, this blows over. Quickly.

GVGjr
01-03-2014, 11:19 PM
This continues to be a distraction on the competition with no real end in sight.
It's a shame that Crameri has been implicated but he is one of us now and deserves our full support.

Remi Moses
02-03-2014, 02:11 PM
Bit sad the players have been implicated in the media, when it's still being investigated.

bornadog
02-03-2014, 02:15 PM
This is really shameful by ASADA and the AFL for not knocking this on the head almost a year ago. How long does it take to investigate all this? Now the saga is going to drag into 2014. All its doing is bringing down the reputation of the whole AFL.

bulldogtragic
02-03-2014, 02:27 PM
This is really shameful by ASADA and the AFL for not knocking this on the head almost a year ago. How long does it take to investigate all this? Now the saga is going to drag into 2014. All its doing is bringing down the reputation of the whole AFL.

Completely agree and I think I can say I have understanding on these processes. If they can't compell Dank then rap it up already. That it was said by the government of the day that it was the darkest day in Australian Sport I think has heaped unnecessary pressure on the decision makers. Even if they aim their attention at Stew, the Girdon Legal work experience kids could mount a decent defence. No one is looking good at the moment and no one is winning, it's just so unnecessary.

Ghost Dog
02-03-2014, 05:15 PM
But on the other hand, if records are not kept it makes it very hard to defend or deny these allegations.

bulldogtragic
02-03-2014, 05:27 PM
In one sense, but the sports scientist has not formally spoken to them but denied the allegations. There are no positive tests. It's based on circumstance and innuendo, the threshold for substantiating the basis on which to base a legal challengable allegation must and should be near as absolute as possible. The counter argument generally raises Lance Armstrong, but the case that nailed him had ansolutely damning statements which corroborated events, results, info and other statements. With the scrutiny on everybody, any allegations will be water tight dead certs for winning. From a completely ingorant position, I'm not sure that there is enough until any laws can compel Dank to testify. And judging on the Australian legal royalty and top tier firm use by a Essendon and the AFL, ASADA and WADA would want to be very, very, very confident.

bulldogtragic
13-03-2014, 07:56 PM
AFL 360 reporting the Hun believe Steven Dank has been issued with 34 'show cause' points from ASADA about procedures at Essendon.

Topdog
14-03-2014, 04:48 AM
If I had any idea what that meant I'm sure I'd be fascinated.

Really worried about getting in Crameri now.

bulldogtragic
14-03-2014, 10:12 AM
If I had any idea what that meant I'm sure I'd be fascinated.

Really worried about getting in Crameri now.

ASADA are flexing their muscle, or at least showing their hand if the Hun can be believed...

Mofra
14-03-2014, 12:51 PM
This is really shameful by ASADA and the AFL for not knocking this on the head almost a year ago. How long does it take to investigate all this?
A simple, straight forward government investigation can take over 6 months.

A highly complex, highly litigious investigation like this may drag on for many, many more months.

1eyedog
14-03-2014, 01:39 PM
A simple, straight forward government investigation can take over 6 months.

A highly complex, highly litigious investigation like this may drag on for many, many more months.

Absolutely, we need to understand that ASADA unlike all law firms running a case move at their own speed. This case will not take a common law suit trajectory both in terms of how it is rolled out or in how long it takes to finalise. We saw this when Dank was issued with 34 show causes but with no evidence against him.

Throughandthrough
18-03-2014, 10:31 PM
Relevant article

:arrow: from :arrow: http://www.themercury.com.au/sport/afl/supplements-forced-me-out-of-afl-says-sam-lonergan/story-fnj4f7h7-1226857624150


http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/03/18/1226857/624681-23a73bc6-ad9b-11e3-b1d0-0d819574758c.jpg


[quote]FORMER Essendon player Sam Lonergan fears for his health after being caught up in the Bombers supplements scandal and has revealed the fallout from the saga pushed him out of the AFL.
The Tasmanian was one of 13 Essendon players named in an ASADA report leaked to the media and says he is bracing for being issued with an infraction notice, and the impact the charge will have on his family.

Speaking for the first time about the big emotional toll the year-long controversy has had on him, Lonergan told the Mercury it was one of the factors that pushed him out of the AFL system despite being offered another year on Richmond’s list.

He ended his careerretired from the AFL last year after one season and two matches with Richmond following seven years and 79 games with the Bombers.

“I’m OK, I’ve had plenty of time to deal with it now,’’ the midfielder said.

“The hard thing is you have to prepare your family again for another blow.

“You have to make the phone call to your mum and then your dad, your sister and brother, your nieces and *!nephews to say this is going to be in the paper.”

He said he was frustrated about the lack of information and the uncertainty about possible health issues.

“I’m really unsure, to be honest. It is a tough one to answer,’’ he said.

“The frustrating part is *!people are finding out information before I’m finding out.

“Obviously there are things being put in place to make sure they are doing the right research to find out (about long-term health effects).

“But at this stage there is obviously some sort of fear, but whether that is really fear or whether that is because we are over-thinking it, we don’t know.”

Lonergan, originally from Launceston, is now a playing assistant coach at SANFL club Glenelg.

He accepted the job partly to escape the AFL system and the surrounding Essendon scandal, but was drawn in again when he was named alongside 13 former teammates in an ASADA report leaked to the media.

“I moved to Adelaide and got out of the system and to not having to be facing it constantly, but you know how big footy is in Aust*!ralia — it just follows you,” he said.

He did not want to comment on specifics as the *!investigation continues, or on the two key figures in the controversy, former Essendon sports scientist Stephen Dank and former Bombers strength and *!conditioning coach Dean Robinson.

But he did say while Essendon tried to provide support through information and updates, it was Richmond that carried him through the scandal during the past year.

“Obviously I’m upset with how things have turned out with what’s happened, and that it is still being dragged out and going on,’’ he said.

“That’s why Richmond was so good to me, because they treated me like I had been there since I was an 18-year-old kid — and that’s why my respect for them is so great.”

Aiding his decision to move to Adelaide was the fact his girlfriend, Kirrie Waldon, is at the RAAF base at Elizabeth, and he has since rediscovered his love for *!football.

“I couldn’t be happier.

“I represented the Essendon Football Club very well and did everything I could for the *!supporters.

1eyedog
19-03-2014, 09:45 AM
wondering now whether there will be player lawsuits against the club...not a good look at all for the Essendon Football Club brand.

Happy Days
19-03-2014, 10:40 AM
426 This is sort of applicable, but just wow.

This is the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a guy who beats his wife because "he loves her".

Murphy'sLore
19-03-2014, 11:44 AM
The whole Essendon Football Club has Stockholm syndrome.

Remi Moses
19-03-2014, 01:59 PM
What about cult Hird coming out just before the season starts ?
It's all about me

Throughandthrough
19-03-2014, 02:28 PM
I thought Hird was banned for a year? So he's allowed to do interviews for the members?


#flog

Twodogs
19-03-2014, 03:49 PM
I wonder if anyone has ever thought to give Hirdy a Rorschach test?

Greystache
19-03-2014, 04:08 PM
I wonder if anyone has ever thought to give Hirdy a Rorschach test?

What do you see James?

"That looks like God asking me for a favour"

"This one looks like Jesus picking up my dry cleaning"

"I see Neil Armstrong asking for my autograph"

"And this one looks like Marilyn Monroe begging me for a date"

Twodogs
19-03-2014, 04:43 PM
What do you see James?

"That looks like God asking me for a favour"

"This one looks like Jesus picking up my dry cleaning"

"I see Neil Armstrong asking for my autograph"

"And this one looks like Marilyn Monroe begging me for a date"



"That one is Scott McLaren apologising for being a crap umpire"

KT31
19-03-2014, 05:01 PM
"That one is Scott McLaren apologising for being a crap umpire"

"That one is of me polishing the Brownlow I stole from Chris Grant."

KT31
19-03-2014, 05:03 PM
James : "I don't have a God complex, I prefer to call it a Hird complex."

Happy Days
19-03-2014, 06:08 PM
I'd actually kind of dig it if Hird became self aware of his God complex and turned fully heel on the media. Never going to happen but imagine the press conferences!

Twodogs
19-03-2014, 07:13 PM
I get it.

LostDoggy
09-09-2016, 07:25 PM
Herald Dumb reporting that Crammers is allowed back at the club next week.

bulldogtragic
09-09-2016, 07:42 PM
Herald Dumb reporting that Crammers is allowed back at the club next week.

That's fun to think of if both sides win past next week. If nothing else.

Flamethrower
09-09-2016, 07:48 PM
To train only though. Suspension isn't lifted until November 13, appeal wont be resolved until after the season according to WADA/CAS.

Twodogs
09-09-2016, 08:11 PM
Still it will be a lift to get him back even if it's just a new enthusiastic voice at training.

bulldogtragic
09-09-2016, 08:17 PM
To train only though. Suspension isn't lifted until November 13, appeal wont be resolved until after the season according to WADA/CAS.

He can lead the March to the G. Perfect way to embrace him back and get involved with the finals campaign.

ratsmac
09-09-2016, 08:18 PM
Still it will be a lift to get him back even if it's just a new enthusiastic voice at training.

Indeed. Morale will be splitting at the seams. A finals win in Perth and Crammers back on the training track.

strebla
10-09-2016, 12:20 AM
He can lead the March to the G. Perfect way to embrace him back and get involved with the finals campaign.

I love this idea it would be a great way to show him how we feel about him. While we are at it why not get past players involved I can just st imagine Crofty,Grant,BJ,Smith,West and co leading the march that would be awesome!!!!!

1eyedog
10-09-2016, 08:20 AM
I love this idea it would be a great way to show him how we feel about him. While we are at it why not get past players involved I can just st imagine Crofty,Grant,BJ,Smith,West and co leading the march that would be awesome!!!!!

Good idea although I'd reckon Bubba and Turtle would be pretty busy on game day.

Bulldog4life
10-09-2016, 09:12 AM
I love this idea it would be a great way to show him how we feel about him. While we are at it why not get past players involved I can just st imagine Crofty,Grant,BJ,Smith,West and co leading the march that would be awesome!!!!!

I would love to see Libba senior leading the march. Would be sensational to march with Libba.

strebla
10-09-2016, 01:16 PM
Good idea although I'd reckon Bubba and Turtle would be pretty busy on game day.

Point well taken but I can you imagine past players leading the way it would be electric !!!!

LostDoggy
10-09-2016, 11:49 PM
Point well taken but I can you imagine past players leading the way it would be electric !!!!

Douggy's the man for the job

Twodogs
11-09-2016, 12:07 AM
Douggy's the man for the job

Any pubs on the way? We'd have to stop if there are.