2014 Game Day Round 2 - Western Bulldogs V North Melbourne

[Eastdog]

Dogs by 14 points
First Goal: Hunter
BOG: Libba

[bulldogtragic]

This should be a cracker. Although I hate waiting until the last game, although I will have to get used to it.

Dogs by 34
Minson first goal
BOG Stringer

[boydogs]

North by 37
First goal Hunter
BOG Griffen

[bornadog]

Dogs by 9 points

First Goal: Jones

BOG: Libba

[Remi Moses]

Norf by 8 pts
BOG Cooney (needs to lift)
First goal Crameri

[AndrewP6]

Norf by 25
First goal Libba
BOG Griff

[Twodogs]

Dogs by 19
Stringer first goal
Minson BOG.

[RoZDog]

Dogs 15
BOG Griff
1st Goal Jones

[GVGjr]

Confidence is high I repeat Confidence is high.

Result: Dogs by 21 points
First goal: Crameri
BOG: Picken for his game on Harvey

Added thought: Possible late change for us.

[bulldogsman]

Dogs by 3 points
BOG Griffen
Gia 1st goal

[bornadog]

Dogs by 3 points
BOG Griffen
Gia 1st goal

Who will be sub if Gia starts on the ground?

[azabob]

I am really surprised with the confidence levels. Why are posters so confident?

[Twodogs]

I am really surprised with the confidence levels. Why are posters so confident?


We defend better than North. Our midfield is much better. Brad Scott can't coach.

[bulldogtragic]

I am really surprised with the confidence levels. Why are posters so confident?

For me, because the alternative thinking puts an end to the offseason honeymoon feeling I've had. I haven't been this excited prior to a season in a long time and I don't want to let go of it.

That and Norf are seriously shite.

[F'scary]

On the assumption that Griffen will play and he is fit, I have a feeling we can turn around last week and win.

Chihuahuas by 13 points
BOG: Griffen
1st Goal: Stringerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[F'scary]

I am really surprised with the confidence levels. Why are posters so confident?

One word: Griffen.

[Twodogs]

Confidence is high I repeat Confidence is high.



Added thought: Possible late change for us.


My confidence is high. Any thoughts on who might be out?

[Go_Dogs]

Dogs by 23
First goal Jones
BOG Libba

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't know why I'm confident, after last week's display I don't have any right to be. But yet I am.

Dogs by 19 points
BOG: Libba- not sure North's mids will keep him quiet the way Wet Toast's mids did.
First goal: Hunter

[azabob]

My confidence is high. Any thoughts on who might be out?

If someone is out, who is in?

[The Underdog]

North by 31.
First goal - Crameri
BOG - Liberatore

North are poor against good teams. We're not a good team.
I also can't forget that champion tall forward Majak Daw ripping us a new one. Now they have better tall options and we have picked an undersized backline.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 18 points
BOG: Crameri
First goal: Jones

[The Underdog]

We defend better than North. Our midfield is much better. Brad Scott can't coach.

Not sure tactically out pointing a poor coach on match day is a strength of ours.

[Go_Dogs]

If someone is out, who is in?

I think Dickson was on stand by as he didn't play in the VFL match.

[1eyedog]

I think we can hold on against North today so I'm tipping us by 16 points.

[Twodogs]

Not sure tactically out pointing a poor coach on match day is a strength of ours.


True that. I reckon I could out coach Brad Scott though.


They did add to it significantly over the off season. Gavin Brown? Is he a good get? I don't know much about him as a coach. Anyone else know?

[bulldogtragic]

True that. I reckon I could out coach Brad Scott though.


They did add to it significantly over the off season. Gavin Brown? Is he a good get? I don't know much about him as a coach. Anyone else know?

From memory Gavin was mainly under Malthouse from memory. Seems highly regarded, but so did other Malthouse apprentices like Watters, Neeld, Laidley, Brad Scott and Buckley. Seems the word 'underachieving' is apt.

[GVGjr]

Not sure tactically out pointing a poor coach on match day is a strength of ours.

I shouldn't ask but based on what?

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 7
BOG Stevens (bounce back Koby)
First goal Majak (I know he's not playing but I'm scarred)

[Scorlibo]

Dogs by 13
BOG Cooney
First goal Stringer

[Twodogs]

First goal Majak (I know he's not playing but I'm scarred)

That was quite a day.

[Go_Dogs]

Just on my way in, I'm curious to see if the roof will be open today.

Go Dogs!

[bulldogtragic]

That was quite a day.

Just checking TD, what happened in the district cricket final? :)

[bornadog]

Who will be sub if Gia starts on the ground?
Gia is sub

[bornadog]

Just on my way in, I'm curious to see if the roof will be open today.

Go Dogs!
Roof closed

[KT31]

North by 27
BOG : Macrae
1st Goal - Dahl

[GVGjr]

Late change to North. Currie in and Wright out. Minson will have plenty of work to do again.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by: 17
first goal: dahl

b.o.g Cooney.

Cooney, Griffen and Libba in the middle BRING IT!

[Daughter of the West]

North by 21
BOG for us: Libba
First goal for us: Hunter

[Ghost Dog]

North by 10 - first time I have tipped against us for a while, but confidence seems low, and giving up a lot of height in this game.
BOG: MaCrae
First Goal: MaCrae

[Mantis]

Our poor kicking and lack of height in defence isn't helping our cause early on.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

When did Stringer turn into a crap kick?

[GVGjr]

How was that not a free kick to Boyd?

[Mantis]

Endeavour = 8/10

Execution = 2/10

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

12 inside 50's for just 3 behinds.
Our intensity and effort has been great but still, our achille's heel is our poor skills, especially when moving the ball into our forward line

[bulldogtragic]

So much effort, so little reward. But if we can keep this up, we will win.

[LostDoggy]

So much effort, so little reward. But if we can keep this up, we will win.

$4.80 under 39.

[bulldogtragic]

$4.80 under 39.

Tempting, if I gambled. Very.

[Ghost Dog]

Bloke on the radio reckons he often watches footy to get out of washing the dishes, but now wishes he was at the sink. Am listening on the radio, a lot of possessions but nothing going between the sticks.

Sounds like Picken is doing well on Thomas.

[Mantis]

Our kicking is deplorable.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

So frustrating. We are dominating right now but don't even look like scoring.

[AndrewP6]

If endeavour was goals we'd be ten up. Unfortunately it isn't. Dreadful game so far.

[bulldogtragic]

Jong wants to keep his spot, doing ok.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Lin Jong has been impressive in an otherwise woeful exhibition of football. Seriously, this is one of the worst games of football I've seen.

[LostDoggy]

So frustrating. We are dominating right now but don't even look like scoring.

When Picken, Stevens and Wood are your leading possession getters you have some problems.

Our better movers are warming up, we will be fine I think.

Griffen obviously not ready.

[Mantis]

Lin Jong has been impressive in an otherwise woeful exhibition of football. Seriously, this is one of the worst games of football I've seen.

Agree on both points.. Horrible game.

[bulldogtragic]

Lin Jong has been impressive in an otherwise woeful exhibition of football. Seriously, this is one of the worst games of football I've seen.

Thanks for saving me the time to write this on my phone. Horrible spectacle.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well done Picken. Some North players hate it when the opposition don't let them have things their own way.

[GVGjr]

Picken normally has a good game against North.

I think the game will open up in the 3rd.

[Greystache]

Worst game I've ever seen.

Griffen looks weeks off being right, it's ridiculous we've rushed him back.

[azabob]

This is why neither team deserves Friday football.

[The Underdog]

Worst game I've ever seen.

Griffen looks weeks off being right, it's ridiculous we've rushed him back.

Can barely walk properly. He looks terrible. Which means he fits right in to this game.

[Mantis]

This is why neither team deserves Friday football.

Yep, this is why we play in the worst time slots.. The gap between the Friday night game (Ess v Haw) and this one is huge.

[bulldogtragic]

Koby Stevens is worth a couple of goals a game.

[FrediKanoute]

Turnedon Bulldogs up.....North kick 3......turned off.

[Mantis]

Need to sub Gia in.. Stringer or Crameri can have a spell... Maybe even Griff who is battling.

[MrMahatma]

Frustrating to watch the butchering of opportunities.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Worrying signs. The intensity and concentration levels defensively are dropping

[MrMahatma]

Gotta get Gia on

[Mantis]

Black isn't hurting us on the scoreboard, but his height advantage over Wood is a concern.

[bulldogtragic]

On this game only, we'd be bottom 3 in skills.

[LostDoggy]

This is why neither team deserves Friday football.

The only thing anyone 'Deserve's' is an equal playing field.

Assuming a team will play crap footy is just crap.

[Mantis]

The only thing anyone 'Deserve's' is an equal playing field.

Assuming a team will play crap footy is just crap.

If you had paid more than $1 billion for TV rights you would want better entertainment than this game... If I was a neutral I would be changing channels.

[bulldogtragic]

2 goal turnaround

[Greystache]

Seeing fans leave during the 3rd quarter with the game in the balance is really worrying. You can't serve this sort of standard up and expect people to watch.

There's 30 players on the field with almost no skill or polish.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I love the club, and I've somewhat come round to the coaching team. But even so I cant think of any other period in time when we were just down right woeful to watch. We are seemingly devoid of players who either know how or have the ability to create goals or execute ball movement with precision.

[Greystache]

JJ needs a long spell in the VFL.

[LostDoggy]

If you had paid more than $1 billion for TV rights you would want better entertainment than this game... If I was a neutral I would be changing channels.

I hear you, its up to the people cashing the cheque. You either want max money or an equal comp.

[bulldogtragic]

Boyd.... Why???

[Greystache]

JJ 20m out can't convert, goes down the other end and they seal it from 20m out. Pathetic.

[MrMahatma]

Piss poor. Blokes who can't kick shouldn't play.

[LostDoggy]

I cant wait to play North when we havnt had an interstate game in the tropics the game before.

They are a seriously overrated football side.

[bulldogtragic]

There's no denying all our players are tough. But not enough of them have sufficient skills. JJ's miss is already etched in memory.

[MrMahatma]

I cant wait to play North when we havnt had an interstate game in the tropics the game before.

They are a seriously overrated football side.

And we are rightly not rated at all.

[AndrewP6]

I cant wait to play North when we havnt had an interstate game in the tropics the game before.

They are a seriously overrated football side.

That's just more excuses. Our skill level is (still) deplorable.

[Mantis]

Piss poor. Blokes who can't kick shouldn't play.

Can you play with 6?

[azabob]

Can you play with 6?

Can you even name six?!?

[bornadog]

The MC needs to seriously look at our structure.

[Ghost Dog]

Missing goals from 20 out really hurts.
Our forward line is woeful for another year in a row.

[bornadog]

Missing goals from 20 out really hurts.
They missed plenty of easy ones

[azabob]

The MC needs to seriously look at our structure.

Do you think it's a coaching thing or players not following instruction?

[Mantis]

Can you even name six?!?

Murf, Higgins, Cooney, Gia, Libba & Macrae.

It's pretty bad that it's a struggle to find just 6 decent kicks.. And I was scrapping the barrel.

[azabob]

Murf, Higgins, Cooney, Gia, Libba & Macrae.

It's pretty bad that it's a struggle to find just 6 decent kicks.. And I was scrapping the barrel.

Only Murphy, Cooney and maybe Macrea can kick with depth and penetration.

[bornadog]

Do you think it's a coaching thing or players not following instruction?
Goal to goal line

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

The MC needs to seriously look at our structure.

Structure is important but so is a lack of class particularly up forward. I thought Stringer Jones and Crameri were all poor and believe Murphy should have gone forward to give us something different.
Apart from Dahlhaus the attack looked very ordinary.The experience and smartness of Harvey and DalSanto was the difference in the end.Our attack on the ball will only carry you so far. We clearly lack pace and skill with only Minson and Roughead able to compete in the air.

[LostDoggy]

Dead right with the kicking. Watching Friday night footy, I remarked how well Hawthorne used the ball which resulted in retaining possession and controlling the game, momentum, and pressure of the contest. Today (and last week) it was painfully obvious this is going to be a big problem this year.
Not only around the ground Dahl, JJ, Jones shots at goal were a real worry.

[Mantis]

Structure is important but so is a lack of class particularly up forward. I thought Stringer Jones and Crameri were all poor and believe Murphy should have gone forward to give us something different.
Apart from Dahlhaus the attack looked very ordinary.The experience and smartness of Harvey and DalSanto was the difference in the end.Our attack on the ball will only carry you so far. We clearly lack pace and skill with only Minson and Roughead able to compete in the air.

While our forwards were poor who would want their job with the way the ball is delivered?

[Twodogs]

I don't know what to say. That was the worst game Ive ever seen.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't know what to say. That was the worst game Ive ever seen.

So it's not just me, this was hands down the worst game I've seen. We've been pumped before, but this game was in a class of its own. Not the worst result, but the worst game.

[soupman]

Due to work I was unable to make it today and very disappointing about that. managed to catch 2 and a half quarters on TV though and that would have to be one of, if not the worst game I've seen anyone play.

To think North were widely regarded as a top four side and by some as a premiership smokey.

I look forward to Bontempelli next week, as at the moment there isn't much to look forward to. Way to kill all the pre-season optimism and excitement.

[Greystache]

So it's not just me, this was hands down the worst game I've seen. We've been pumped before, but this game was in a class of its own. Not the worst result, but the worst game.

The game was so bad that by the end I didn't even care if we won or lost, I just wanted it over.

Worst game I've ever watched.

[Twodogs]

Morris was good. Macrae did some nice things. Minson was better.

[Go_Dogs]

Our ball use was terrible today. We simply miss way to many targets and when we do hit them, they're quite often the wrong option to someone is a worse spot/under pressure.

It's a huge difference to the way we were moving the ball during the last six weeks of 2013 where we moved the ball quickly, lowered the eyes and made our possessions count.

We also missed a lot of tackles today or were unable to hold the player with the ball up and prevent them from getting a clear disposal.

[Eastdog]

I have to say that was another dissapointment. We had opportunities to win the game but did not take them. Our forward line is shocking - we simply for all our efforts don't get enough out. Our skill level is the worst in the comp.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Likewise, I just wanted it to stop. To make it worse my best mate is a Saints fan texting me throughout the game saying how abysmal our skills are. And the worst part was I had to agree and I couldn't even shoot back at him with a chip about how crap the Saints are.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I still have concerns over McCartney's coaching ability on game day.

1. Why didn't we tag Harvey, particularly once it was evident he was dangerous in the second half.
2. JJ playing wasn't the correct decision. Not subbing him was ridiculous. He hurt us so much today.
3. Structurally the side is out of whack. Minson v 3 rucks doesn't work, never has. Jones cannot ruck. Therefore, this robs us both in the ruck and up forward. One of Campbell/Williams must play at all times. Down the other end, Talia must play. It wasn't such an issue today because Morris was superb but we're undersized.
4. We have too many similar, vanilla players in the midfield. Boyd, Wallis and Jong all effectively play the same role. None are creative or reliable with their disposal. Only one of them can play.
5. The skill level is deplorable. Why this hasn't improved since 2011 is beyond me, and why we continually pick players who can't kick baffles me. At the end of the day, if you cannot kick, you cannot play.

[lemmon]

Most disheartened I've felt at a game. The squad we put on the park today was simply not that young. I fear what will happen when Morris and Murphy leave that backline. The West Coast side from last week was younger yet washed the floor with us.

I thought Crameri and Stringer were less than ordinary, for two mobile key forwards they are certainly lacking in the mobile stakes, not big enough to muscle their opponents, not fast enough to create space and don't have the tank/purely too lazy to burn them off...In saying that the footy coming in was awful

[Happy Days]

It's not the worst game I've ever seen us play (2010 vs St Kilda for those wondering), but we all seem to be in agreement that our skill level was just horrible. What was just as bad was the total lack of composure and awareness we exhibited time and time again; Dahlhaus getting smothered, Jones playing on for no reason and getting drilled, etc. just dumb, horrible football.

Picken was excellent, I thought he was going to get smashed and he didn't let Thomas get a sniff. Also props to Higgins on the tracer bullet pass to Dahlhaus (which set up a set shot that he of course missed). Pretty much the only good kick in the game so it really stuck out.

North are probably going to be the side to apply that little pressure on our midfield all year, and that's how they respond. Oof.

[kruder]

Im still shaking my head at Higgins effort in the defensive square late in the 3rd quarter. I'm not sure where he is at but at this stage probably the most disappointing player I can remember in our colours.

Why Jong was aloud to stay on after cramping was a disgrace. Cost us another key goal and all in the box should be held accountable.

Picken while played well defensively gets far too much off the ball at half back for my liking while its plerplexing why our match committee consider Wood as a Key defender.I would like to see there analysis behind this but for mine he plays wing or in the seconds.

[The Underdog]

I shouldn't ask but based on what?

Probably being a little glib, but in the time of watching this coaching staff there doesn't seem to be a great deal of nimbleness in our tactics. If our game plan and initial planning isn't working it usually takes a while for them to make changes which adapt to the way the game is panning out. I'm not necessarily saying it's wrong, you have to back in your way to play, but it doesn't fell like taking advantage of another teams tactical weakness within a game is a strength of ours. This also falls on the players on game day as the ability to carry out the plan is ultimately up to them. But then this begs the question of are they being taught how to deal with the tactics of other teams well enough.

[jeemak]

I thought we battled through a very very ordinary game manfully after sweating it out less than seven full days ago in considerable heat, against a better side that is touted to push top four by some but universally expected to make the eight. Our execution was terrible, our concentration was terrible and our ability to be creative working it forward was terrible.

We didn't stop trying though. Our list is lacking creativity and skill (the latter was diminished today due to the week after Subiaco factor), and it's an area we really need to work on over the next two years. If two teams are capable of grinding, the one that can use the ball better will win. We can't use the ball better than many other sides.

We were ripe for picking off today, considering the difference in games last week between ourselves and North (who had a bruise free game for round one). Not making excuses, and I'm disappointed with our selection, coaching and awareness.

[ratsmac]

I thought we battled through a very very ordinary game manfully after sweating it out less than seven full days ago in considerable heat, against a better side that is touted to push top four by some but universally expected to make the eight. Our execution was terrible, our concentration was terrible and our ability to be creative working it forward was terrible.

We didn't stop trying though. Our list is lacking creativity and skill (the latter was diminished today due to the week after Subiaco factor), and it's an area we really need to work on over the next two years. If two teams are capable of grinding, the one that can use the ball better will win. We can't use the ball better than many other sides.

We were ripe for picking off today, considering the difference in games last week between ourselves and North (who had a bruise free game for round one). Not making excuses, and I'm disappointed with our selection, coaching and awareness.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, West Coast also played in that same heat last week and they seem to have pulled up pretty good by beating Melbourne by 93 points. It's true though, the heat and the fixture didn't help us but there is no excuse for butchering the ball time and time again.
Can someone please explain to me why you would have your smartest forward who can score goals sitting on the bench for 3 quarters, when there is a game of footy that is there to be won and your current forward setup is disfunctional? Gia should of been subbed into the game at the 10 minute mark of the 3rd quarter.

[jeemak]

While I agree with most of what you are saying, West Coast also played in that same heat last week and they seem to have pulled up pretty good by beating Melbourne by 93 points. It's true though, the heat and the fixture didn't help us but there is no excuse for butchering the ball time and time again.
Can someone please explain to me why you would have your smartest forward who can score goals sitting on the bench for 3 quarters, when there is a game of footy that is there to be won and your current forward setup is disfunctional? Gia should of been subbed into the game at the 10 minute mark of the 3rd quarter.


Key difference is that West Coast are completely used to those conditions, their ground, had the run of it and came over to play against a very ordinary football team. We're not used to the travel to the extent they are, got touched up and came up against a side that was belittled on Friday of the week before and had the capacity to make amends. North, after all, are a better side than we are.

The only reason I can give for Gia coming on so late is the coaching staff believe we're in development mode to a greater extent than we as supporters believe we are and wanted to see how it played out with the cattle they'd selected. A reasonable person would have to think a shuffle of soldiers to get Gia into the forward line and JJ out of the game closer to half time than what we saw was a necessity. I'm no smarter than any person on the match committee, so there has to be an ulterior motive behind the sub being made so late in the game.

[boydogs]

We're already playing a very energy intensive style of game. BMac keeps explaining this away by saying we are a young team that has to learn to be better for longer, when really we need to stop exhausting ourselves by trying to swarm every contest then chasing tail down to the other end of the ground when we turn it over. We need to be a lot smarter by not having every player go after the ball, and have them defend the opposition options away from the contest and present as an option to pass to instead, then hitting a team mate when we get it

[jeemak]

gogriff, you're not wrong. The understanding of when to "go" versus stay off the ball was something we struggled with even when we improved our contested ball work in 2009-2010 under Eade.

It wasn't an issue of the same impact it is in today's game (AFL - not our game today). I'm almost of a mind to say we're completely aware of how to get our hands on it, out possession counts suggest we're there. Like you, I think we need to learn how to use it when we get it, and just as importantly stifle the opposition when they get the second possession after winning it.

[LostDoggy]

Murf, Higgins, Cooney, Gia, Libba & Macrae.

It's pretty bad that it's a struggle to find just 6 decent kicks.. And I was scrapping the barrel.

Hunter's a fair kick.

[bornadog]

What a start to the season.



First game is a twilight at Paterson Stadium in 33 degree heat
Second game we play after 7 days returning from WA. North have 9 day break. No travel.
Third Game. We play Richmond after a 5/6 day break. Richmond have 9 days.

[Mofra]

The game was so bad that by the end I didn't even care if we won or lost, I just wanted it over.
Funny you say that. I yelled out in the forth for someone to blow the siren and put the crowd out of their misery and everyone aroudn me (mostly Dogs fans) agreed.

Sometimes I wish we had a mercy rule in AFL. Caught up with a North fan after the game and he wasn't happy.

[azabob]

Funny you say that. I yelled out in the forth for someone to blow the siren and put the crowd out of their misery and everyone aroudn me (mostly Dogs fans) agreed.

Sometimes I wish we had a mercy rule in AFL. Caught up with a North fan after the game and he wasn't happy.

You went late, my dad told both teams to bugger off at quarter time and not to come back.

[bornadog]

Strange, I enjoyed the game till the last 10 minutes.

[jeemak]

What a start to the season.



First game is a twilight at Paterson Stadium in 33 degree heat
Second game we play after 7 days returning from WA. North have 9 day break. No travel.
Third Game. We play Richmond after a 5/6 day break. Richmond have 9 days.


I was going to raise the same issue.

We've been credited with the easiest draw in the competition, but to be honest, we've had a bastard start in terms of rest versus our opponents. The disparity in recovery times is very disappointing, particularly considering we've had a very hot Perth game in there as well.

[chef]

Strange, I enjoyed the game till the last 10 minutes.

Same here.

[soupman]

I was going to raise the same issue.

We've been credited with the easiest draw in the competition, but to be honest, we've had a bastard start in terms of rest versus our opponents. The disparity in recovery times is very disappointing, particularly considering we've had a very hot Perth game in there as well.

That could have been played a week earlier to the disadvantage of no one. Stupid scheduling. I know the Perth sides do it every week but there is no need to do it when it isn't necessary.

[bornadog]

Same here.

This game was a battle of men wanting the ball and one not giving the other an inch. The pressure applied from both teams was fantastic and not allowing the ball to come out easily. The battle was incredible, not pretty just pure guts and not for the faint hearted, in the end, we ran out of legs.

[1eyedog]

This game was a battle of men wanting the ball and one not giving the other an inch. The pressure applied from both teams was fantastic and not allowing the ball to come out easily. The battle was incredible, not pretty just pure guts and not for the faint hearted, in the end, we ran out of legs.

I actually enjoyed the Saints game (not the result) from a couple of years ago for the same reason.

[LostDoggy]

I'd be interested to hear the justification for bringing Gia, our smartest forward by a stretch, into the game 10 minutes into the last quarter when our forward line was completely dysfunctional all day and everyone was absolutely knackered half way through the third quarter.

[Ozza]

Given the lack of run in the legs/tired players from the previous week - it was certainly puzzling that Gia didn't come on during the 3rd quarter.

[Greystache]

You went late, my dad told both teams to bugger off at quarter time and not to come back.

I saw people leaving during the 3rd quarter with only a few points the difference.

I can enjoy low scoring slogs, but the skill level was well below most VFL games. The number of stoppages and the lack of goals wasn't just due to the pressure teams were applying, it was just as much because neither teams could execute basic skills even when under no pressure. Even the set shot kicking from both sides was below suburban club level.

[bulldogtragic]

I saw people leaving during the 3rd quarter with only a few points the difference.

I can only hope they were supporters who never had an intention of buying a membership. Which is the least of two big evils.

[chef]

This game was a battle of men wanting the ball and one not giving the other an inch. The pressure applied from both teams was fantastic and not allowing the ball to come out easily. The battle was incredible, not pretty just pure guts and not for the faint hearted, in the end, we ran out of legs.

Yep, it was war.

Give me that over a 40 goal basketball game anyday.

[Greystache]

I can only hope they were supporters who never had an intention of buying a membership. Which is the least of two big evils.

It was both teams too.

[soupman]

Alright I've seen the full game now, unfortunately only on TV so I don't have the best perception of what happened off the ball.

Our skills are atrocious, and when we don't look to run with the ball or take risks we go nowhere as our kicking is so limited. Opposition sides are going to love watching us try and get out of defence. Like North did they'll just sit back and wait for us to kick it to them. Interestingly the most common players to have the ball at half back were Picken and Wood, and Stevens was the only one to consistently present an option. We really need Higgins and Murphy to push right back and help run the ball out of there because these three just kicking the ball 20m sideways are prone to turning it over.

Really concerned about our forwardline. When we recruited Crameri and Stringer it seemed we were building a forward line of strong mid sized forwards that are going to be moving around eachother and hard to beat on the ground and on the lead.

Instead I only remember seeing them lead up the ground very infrequently and they always seemed to be coming from behind their opponent hoping for the cheapy over the back. For all Jones' faults at least he presented. Crameri and Stringer were very rarely seen as giving an option.

Stringer in particular concerns me. He is looking lazy atm. Little things like twice yesterday he chased a ball over the boundary line because he slowed down hoping it would bounce up to him and it didn't. I want to see him move towards the ball in flight also, and play infront. There were many times where he was stuck at the back of the pack flat footed or our quick kick forward landed in North's arms because we had nobody ready and playing in front.

It's not the end of the world, we aren't as bad as we think. But performances like yesterday certainly give many supporters an excuse to stay home next week and invest their money elsewhere. We need a good showing next week to at least regain some of the enthusiasm, optimism and excitement of the off-season.

[always right]

Interestingly North also struggled to get the ball through our zone when kicking out. It seemd like we had the ball in our forward half for an enternity in the second quarter.

[dog town]

Personally I enjoy watching that style of game better than a 45 goal game. That's just me though.

We probably should have won in the end. It was always going to be the side that took its chances and won the big battles that would go on and win. Just little errors at the wrong time cost us.

[Bulldog Joe]

When the fixture was first released, I really saw only 1 winnable game in the first 3 and that was based on the poor 2012 for West Coast.

Always felt that the return from Perth with a reduced break compared to North would be telling. We will still struggle against Richmond because of the 6 days against 8.

The recovery period is critical in a tight contest even though every team talks it down in the media, they all now it is an important factor and even to the extent that Boomer Harvey talked about the expectation of more run late in the game because of it.

Too soon for gloomy predictions. Round 4 on we should start to look better.

[AndrewP6]

Yep, it was war.

Give me that over a 40 goal basketball game anyday.

Really? With the appalling lack of skills on show, I thought it was mind-numbing.

[Remi Moses]

Some people are never satisfied honestly.
That was a tough hard game with two teams coming off poor performances.
Open free flowing football doesn't win finals, and yes we have to get a few outside run types.

[bulldogtragic]

Some people are never satisfied honestly.
That was a tough hard game with two teams coming off poor performances.
Open free flowing football doesn't win finals, and yes we have to get a few outside run types.

No doubts it was tough. But Brisbane, Geelong & Hawks games over the past decade have been just as hard if not harder. The complete lack of skills by foot or hand, forward 50 entry or shots at goal or anything that resembled more than physicality any poise or Polish was pretty much absent. I love hard, but a lot of our mistakes weren't under pressure and that's what kills supporters. We were hard for the last 6 rounds and showed a game style and finishing of skills a million times better.

[AndrewP6]

Some people are never satisfied honestly.
That was a tough hard game with two teams coming off poor performances.
Open free flowing football doesn't win finals, and yes we have to get a few outside run types.

But people will pay to see it.

[GVGjr]

Some people are never satisfied honestly.
That was a tough hard game with two teams coming off poor performances.
Open free flowing football doesn't win finals, and yes we have to get a few outside run types.

I don't mind the occasional arm wrestle game and I agree that you have to have a team prepared to gut it out from time to time.
We have a lot of areas that we need to improve on and I agree that we need to find and draft some outside runner with good foot skills.
We are coming from a long way back in terms of player development so it's going to take time.

[Remi Moses]

But people will pay to see it.

Our supporters turn up when we win.
The only duty the coach has is to win games of football.
If I want entertainment I'll go to the circus.
Ross Lyon gets caned but he's accountable to his members

[Remi Moses]

No doubts it was tough. But Brisbane, Geelong & Hawks games over the past decade have been just as hard if not harder. The complete lack of skills by foot or hand, forward 50 entry or shots at goal or anything that resembled more than physicality any poise or Polish was pretty much absent. I love hard, but a lot of our mistakes weren't under pressure and that's what kills supporters. We were hard for the last 6 rounds and showed a game style and finishing of skills a million times better.

I agree with you, but I object that the club have to play 24 goal to 22 bruise free game.
As we know all to well it only gets you so far.

[Greystache]

Our supporters turn up when we win.
The only duty the coach has is to win games of football.
If I want entertainment I'll go to the circus.
Ross Lyon gets caned but he's accountable to his members

What is the point of football if it's not to entertain people? If people aren't entertained they simply won't watch. There'll be die hards here and there, but you don't build a club, sport, or business around a product that people don't want.


I agree with you, but I object that the club have to play 24 goal to 22 bruise free game.
As we know all to well it only gets you so far.

I keep hearing this like it justifies what was a truly awful match on the weekend. It's like when people say the alternative to obese is anorexic, it's garbage. It doesn't have to be a bruise free shoot out to be entertaining, but skills and decision making like we witnessed on the weekend is awful regardless of the number of goals kicked. The fact it was low scoring most mostly due to the fact neither team could get the ball even in the vicinity of a team mate by foot.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

This game was a battle of men wanting the ball and one not giving the other an inch. The pressure applied from both teams was fantastic and not allowing the ball to come out easily. The battle was incredible, not pretty just pure guts and not for the faint hearted, in the end, we ran out of legs.
Agree, it was a fierce contest most of the night, tense and I enjoyed it. Good view of play unfolding on 3rd level but I miss being able to barrack and yell encouragement to the players.

[always right]

Personally I found the game quite tense...an absolute arm wrestle where both sides refused to yield. Certainly frustrating at times but strangely compelling. I always thought that the game would blow open at some point and that North were probably best equipped to be the team to do this. Doesn't make the final quarter capitulation any easier to stomach though. The poor finishing by both sides in the first half was surprising.

[AndrewP6]

Our supporters turn up when we win.
The only duty the coach has is to win games of football.
If I want entertainment I'll go to the circus.
Ross Lyon gets caned but he's accountable to his members

And that will be when? Kicking 2 goals in a half won't get it done. There has to be a much better balance.
At times on Sunday it was like a circus.
Brendan McCartney is also accountable to members, and 2 goals in a half requires lots of explaining(if they want people to fork out their hard-earned AND turn up on game day)

[chef]

So does he coach to win games or full the stadium?

[G-Mo77]

So does he coach to win games or full the stadium?

Both apparently. :)

Double whammy Sunday, played ugly, lost ugly.

[AndrewP6]

So does he coach to win games or full the stadium?

Either would be good. That style on Sunday wasn't going to win the game or entice people to watch.

[jeemak]

Either would be good. That style on Sunday wasn't going to win the game or entice people to watch.

It takes two to tango AP6.

Norf when we were clearly on top in the second quarter just ruined the game with numbers back. The ball spent so much time in our forward line with our players outnumbered it wasn't funny, and let's be honest there's probably only a handful of teams in the competition that would have been able to score against it and we're certainly not one of them at this point.

I'd like to know what everyone's opinion of the game would have been if we let ourselves be strangled in our offensive half, but tried to play a more open and offensive game launching from our defencive half with the cattle we have.

I have a distinct feeling if we did, we'd have been beaten by a good 8-10 goals rather than the 5 we were. The reason for that is our players weren't as good as the players Norf had playing for them, and turning the ball over through being too bullish with the footy coming out of defence would have achieved the precise outcome Norf set the game up for.

[Remi Moses]

We let them play on their own terms and got poleaxed last season.
They can play that way if they like, but they'll end up being aestically pleasing but a big final failure.
Getting a mixture of both is the best possible outcome.
What gets lost also is that not every game of footy is great on the eye.

[chef]

Either would be good. That style on Sunday wasn't going to win the game or entice people to watch.

Nothing wrong with the style, it was the execution of our skills that killed us.

[bornadog]

Nothing wrong with the style, it was the execution of our skills that killed us.

Do any of our players have peripheral vision? How many times we got run down from the side I lost count in the end.

[jeemak]

Do any of our players have peripheral vision? How many times we got run down from the side I lost count in the end.

It's as if they forget that they're on an elite sports field under game pressure, and instead think they're running around in a no tackling training drill where you can just keep running with the ball until an option presents.

So frustrating.

[Mantis]

It's as if they forget that they're on an elite sports field under game pressure, and instead think they're running around in a no tackling training drill where you can just keep running with the ball until an option presents.


I had heard from some track watchers that when we do ball movement drills there is generally more attackers than defenders which would mean that the kicker would generally be 'in the clear'.. This was relayed to me some time back and I don't know if it's still the case, but it might explain why our players believe they have more time than they actually have.

[KT31]

Nothing wrong with the style, it was the execution of our skills that killed us.

Exactly my thoughts, I know it is early in the season but the players skill level was below par for a under 11's side.

[Twodogs]

I had heard from some track watchers that when do ball movement drills there is generally more attackers than defenders which would mean that the kicker would generally be 'in the clear'.. This was relayed to me some time back and I don't know if it's still the case, but it might explain why our players believe they have more time than they actually have.


That's correct. Typically it's 7 forwards to 5 defenders.

[jeemak]

I had heard from some track watchers that when we do ball movement drills there is generally more attackers than defenders which would mean that the kicker would generally be 'in the clear'.. This was relayed to me some time back and I don't know if it's still the case, but it might explain why our players believe they have more time than they actually have.


That's correct. Typically it's 7 forwards to 5 defenders.

That sounds about right, and what I'd expect. On a turnover an advantage in numbers is usually evident around the ball, countered by forwards being outnumbered by defenders.

[Twodogs]

I will add that that's fairly typical of training sessions from as far back as I remember with various coaches. Ever since I remember the players doing these drills forwards have always outnumbered defenders.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yes - you will find most clubs at all varying levels will design drills to favour the 'attacking' element, so there will be more numbers for those attacking than there is defending. No issue there.

[Mantis]

Yes - you will find most clubs at all varying levels will design drills to favour the 'attacking' element, so there will be more numbers for those attacking than there is defending. No issue there.

But does that put the attackers under realistic pressure seeing as though there is always a numerical advantage? ie. the attackers are going to win out more often than not.

Our skills under pressure have been pretty poor, so perhaps a change to our training methods might help to improve this.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

What is the point of football if it's not to entertain people? If people aren't entertained they simply won't watch. There'll be die hards here and there, but you don't build a club, sport, or business around a product that people don't want.



I keep hearing this like it justifies what was a truly awful match on the weekend. It's like when people say the alternative to obese is anorexic, it's garbage. It doesn't have to be a bruise free shoot out to be entertaining, but skills and decision making like we witnessed on the weekend is awful regardless of the number of goals kicked. The fact it was low scoring most mostly due to the fact neither team could get the ball even in the vicinity of a team mate by foot.
Could it mean that our list is simply not good enough. I reckon that the MC could do worse than to grab a tape of last Friday night's game between Hawthorn and Essendon and just study how well Hawthorn executes its skills.
With 97 less disposals and with 5 of its regulars missing it was still good enough to overcome the Bombers.
Will we be any better with Grant Bontempelli Hrovat Roberts and Talia in our starting 22.
As one of our former greats said very few of our players can kick both feet. There were times on Sunday where players like Jong and JJ went to their right side into a wall of opposition players.
We currently have one established key player in Roughead without a recognized CHB, Centreman, CHF and FF.
Without an established goal to goal line we will continue to struggle.

[always right]

Could it mean that our list is simply not good enough. I reckon that the MC could do worse than to grab a tape of last Friday night's game between Hawthorn and Essendon and just study how well Hawthorn executes its skills.
With 97 less disposals and with 5 of its regulars missing it was still good enough to overcome the Bombers.
Will we be any better with Grant Bontempelli Hrovat Roberts and Talia in our starting 22.
As one of our former greats said very few of our players can kick both feet. There were times on Sunday where players like Jong and JJ went to their right side into a wall of opposition players.
We currently have one established key player in Roughead without a recognized CHB, Centreman, CHF and FF.Without an established goal to goal line we will continue to struggle.

Absolutely agree with your general point but we have a number of players who could be classified as established "centre" players. In the end the centreman is just another midfielder.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Absolutely agree with your general point but we have a number of players who could be classified as established "centre" players. In the end the centreman is just another midfielder.

I would play Griffen in the centre to match his flair and talent against the class of others like Mitchell Watson Joel Selwood and Priddis who are natural centre line players. The sooner we do likewise to settle our goal to goal line the better we will become. The idea of playing one tall defender is not the way to go for the future. Our structure at the moment is terrible.

[jeemak]

But does that put the attackers under realistic pressure seeing as though there is always a numerical advantage? ie. the attackers are going to win out more often than not.

Our skills under pressure have been pretty poor, so perhaps a change to our training methods might help to improve this.

On your first paragraph, I think it is realistic. The reason why teams score so heavily from turnovers is because they create a numerical advantage for the team that wins the ball. The side that lost the ball has players running into offensive positions, trying to present an option. Where we burn ourselves is our happy knack for turning the ball over too quickly after we've won it. Whether that be via a bomb to a forward player who is outnumbered, an unaware player carrying the ball for too long or a basic skill error such as a handball to a team mates feet!

On your second paragraph, I'd like to know whether basic repetition is being prioritised down the list in lieu of us trying to develop other areas of the game (style, positioning etc.). I want to know this because we miss too many targets by foot and hand under little pressure.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

But does that put the attackers under realistic pressure seeing as though there is always a numerical advantage? ie. the attackers are going to win out more often than not.

Our skills under pressure have been pretty poor, so perhaps a change to our training methods might help to improve this.

Rightly or wrongly, the drills aren't about creating realistic pressure but more so about implementing how you want to move the ball. If there's equal or more defenders, it can get messy, not allowing players to get in a rhythm (so to speak) of how to do what they should be doing.

At certain times I have found that clubs will change it up, and even up the numbers, but by and large it does typically favour the attackers when the drill is concerned with ball movement.

Agree that given our poor skill execution ever since 2011, we need to make adjustments.