What is wrong with the MC and their Selections - baffling to all to say the least

[bornadog]

Two weeks in a row we have gone in with an undersized defence. Morris and Wood having to play on big forwards and robbing us of their talent on playing on mid sized forwards as well as run and carry with Wood. Pressure then builds on Murphy, Higgins, JJ and the whole backline is stuffed.

I don't buy into this development stuff and they must show something at VFL level? Lets develop them at AFL level, where they are needed.

Talia, Williams, a Cordy or Campbell must be brought in this week and no other talls dropped. (Jones stays)

The fans are dieing here, we have been developing new players since the 2011 season, lets get our best 22 on the field, with some sort of structure and no make do. I don't want to see Morris or Wood on another player ten centimetres taller than them for the rest of the season.

Lets get the sub right as well.

Rant over.

[Greystache]

Have you seen Williams play this year? You were complaining about playing guys who are out of form, he looks further away than anyone on our list.

I'm not convinced we'll see him in a Bulldog jumper again.

You wanted Campbell dropped last week, now you want him back after 1 week?

I'm confused.

[1eyedog]

The question needs to be about Talia. What's going on? He was named to play against Fremantle on 24 February so he's not injured so [unless he is dealing with something other than a physical injury] it appears it's an MC decision.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I've been pretty outspoken on my opinions re: Talia and why he simply needs to be played for his own personal development, without even taking into account the structural reasons of the lineup. If anyone watched Macca's press conference, he was quite adamant that if players 'deserved' to play, they'd be playing - he hasn't been that blatant before. It seemed a bit of a shot at (possibly) Talia/Williams, whilst defending Wood. Regardless, I don't agree with the method. Talia should play. Fixes our structure, gives Roughy support and takes pressure off both Morris/Wood.

The overall balance of the side in the first two weeks is out. Too many similar vanilla players who whilst are hard, are one-paced with no hurt factor and poor skills. We cannot afford to play Wallis, Boyd and Jong in the same side - only one can and should play. When you add Picken to this mix (has been playing as a defender) they are all effectively the same player. It places so much pressure on Murphy, Higgins, Griffen, Macrae and Dahlhaus. If any of these are even slightly down on form, we're unlikely to win.

Hrovat and Bontempelli for Boyd and Jong is what I would do. Instantly our balance through the midfield looks much, much better in terms of ball winning ability/pace/skill.

In terms of our forward half, Campbell is so important. He has been out of touch, but we need to give him a 6 week block of confidence so that he can be the FF anchor/ruck relief. The reasons for playing forward have been touched on enough, but equally as important is the support he can give Minson. I thought Minson dominated for much of the game, but in the second half of the last quarter North's 3 ruckmen eventually wore him down. When Jones had to go into the ruck, it not only hampered our forward set up, but predictably we got slaughtered in the clearances and stoppages.

[bulldogtragic]

If guys like Talia who can play well at AFL level and are not picked, and if this as another 'development' year then say so like last year. I can live last years comments about not winning many games, but to full us (or me) full of pride, hope and excitement where good players (particularly Talia) are not being picked is unfair to watch Morris and Wood get over loaded and possibly the slowest midfield in the comp.

[DISHLICKERS]

Going into the Game with 1 Ruck was silly.

North were onto it hence bringing in Currie at the last minute.

Jones in the ruck killed him and killed us.

The dogs dont value big bodies out on the field for some reason.

We are a two big players down one to help Wil and one to help down back.

[G-Mo77]

I'm not going to panic about not seeing Talia in there yet. We're 2 games in so plenty of time to get him in there, maybe he has been NQR for the first 2 weeks, maybe it's something else. Either way I think we'll see him soon enough. I had no issues with the selected team last week. Probably would have kept Campbell in but it seemed the ones who did not perform in Round 1 were showed the door. I was pleased with that.

There's more to a selection than just talent alone. I've got a feeling we've got a one or two on our list who think they belong but don't believe in working or earning it. That is just a big stab in the dark, something Macca said in his press conference either last week or on Sunday makes me believe something like this is going on.

[GVGjr]

I mentioned in another thread that it's become clear that some of the guys aren't performing at the Footscray VFL side as is expected of them so it's not as easy to just promote. If they can't play to what the senior team needs and expects from them they can't just be promoted
For all the synergies that having our own VFL side brings to the club, for the supporters the excuses of blaming Williamstown or Werribee for holding the players back now just doesn't ring true.

No MC or coach will ignore the form of VFL players if they are playing they way they are needed to.

I'll trust them all to make the right call. If Talia or a few others aren't being selected then I'd have a closer look at the player more than the MC.

[Remi Moses]

I mentioned in another thread that it's become clear that some of the guys aren't performing at the Footscray VFL side as is expected of them so it's not as easy to just promote. If they can't play to what the senior team needs and expects from them they can't just be promoted
For all the synergies that having our own VFL side brings to the club, for the supporters the excuses of blaming Williamstown or Werribee for holding the players back now just doesn't ring true.

No MC or coach will ignore the form of VFL players if they are playing they way they are needed to.

I'll trust them all to make the right call. If Talia or a few others aren't being selected then I'd have a closer look at the player more than the MC.disagree with that.Having to compete with Cameron Wood wouldn't be beneficial for Cordy or Campbell.
Prudden was best on against Collingwood last season and got dropped. I understand Willy's position but for the development of our players we needed a stand alone team.

[GVGjr]

disagree with that.Having to compete with Cameron Wood wouldn't be beneficial for Cordy or Campbell.
Prudden was best on against Collingwood last season and got dropped. I understand Willy's position but for the development of our players we needed a stand alone team.

I think we are actually agreeing. Now that we have our own VFL side the focus moves to the players more than the imposed alignment restrictions.
If the likes of Talia aren't getting a game in the senior side we should be looking at the player first before pointing the finger at the MC.
Our players in the VFL are not being held back by any other circumstance other than their own form or ability to play in the manner they are asked.

[Mantis]

I mentioned in another thread that it's become clear that some of the guys aren't performing at the Footscray VFL side as is expected of them so it's not as easy to just promote.

Talia hadn't yet played for the VFL team prior to the rd1 team to play against WC being selected so I'm not sure this arguement stands up for the major selection query that we all have.

[GVGjr]

Talia hadn't yet played for the VFL team prior to the rd1 team to play against WC being selected so I'm not sure this arguement stands up for the major selection query that we all have.

It's not Talia specific. If players in the VFL aren't performing, training or showing the right approach then their chances of being selected are minimised.

In the past this was all hidden by the alignment with our VFL partners. The focus now switches to the players own performances.

[SlimPickens]

Talia hadn't yet played for the VFL team prior to the rd1 team to play against WC being selected so I'm not sure this arguement stands up for the major selection query that we all have.

Talia played against the northern blues in the practice match where the seniors played carlton and played quite well. This was before round 1 and still has me wondering why he didnt get selected against West Coast.

[jeemak]

Talia played against the northern blues in the practice match where the seniors played carlton and played quite well. This was before round 1 and still has me wondering why he didnt get selected against West Coast.

Perhaps it has something to do with his general preseason output whether it be attitude, preparation or performance on the track.

I got the clear impression from the presser after Sunday night's game there's some tall players who played for Footscray (not just Talia, mind you) that are not doing what is asked of them.

You can't say depriving Grant of games until he did what was asked of him worked well and was a good thing and not apply the same treatment to other players on the list. If this is the path the MC is taking, then I'm glad they're being consistent.

[bornadog]

Have you seen Williams play this year? You were complaining about playing guys who are out of form, he looks further away than anyone on our list.

I'm not convinced we'll see him in a Bulldog jumper again.

You wanted Campbell dropped last week, now you want him back after 1 week?

I'm confused.

Chill out, this is a thread put up for discussion, nothing more.

[Twodogs]

Talia hadn't yet played for the VFL team prior to the rd1 team to play against WC being selected so I'm not sure this arguement stands up for the major selection query that we all have.


I think he played for Footscray in the match against Western Bulldogs. I will find the team lists from that game and confirm it though.

[1eyedog]

I wonder how long members can hang on knowing we have a young gun CHB being held back for (possibly) disciplinary reasons. Getting smashed down back and breaking poor Dale Morris on bigger opponents is something the MC need to weigh up very carefully against teaching Talia a lesson, if that's what's happening.

[Topdog]

Well Im not sure many would know why Talia isn't being played so questions will be asked soon enough.

We have had 2 pretty poor performances so far and haven't been able to score more than 70 points in either game which is a really poor stat.

Is Crameri injured? He has looked like he is with some pretty poor movement.

[GVGjr]

Perhaps it has something to do with his general preseason output whether it be attitude, preparation or performance on the track.

I got the clear impression from the presser after Sunday night's game there's some tall players who played for Footscray (not just Talia, mind you) that are not doing what is asked of them.

You can't say depriving Grant of games until he did what was asked of him worked well and was a good thing and not apply the same treatment to other players on the list. If this is the path the MC is taking, then I'm glad they're being consistent.

Coaches and Match Committees want to win games but if players aren't doing what is expected of them then the Grant example certainly is a consideration. I think it's more likely that there is a few guys that aren't doing the right thing and the MC won't reward them.

[jeemak]

Coaches and Match Committees want to win games but if players aren't doing what is expected of them then the Grant example certainly is a consideration. I think it's more likely that there is a few guys that aren't doing the right thing and the MC won't reward them.

It could be something as simple as positioning for instance, that doesn't get exposed at the secondary level but gets completely exploited by the pace and nous of players at the senior level.

Who knows.

[Mantis]

Talia played against the northern blues in the practice match where the seniors played carlton and played quite well. This was before round 1 and still has me wondering why he didnt get selected against West Coast.

Ok.. I thought he played fro WB in this one.


I think he played for Footscray in the match against Western Bulldogs. I will find the team lists from that game and confirm it though.

He played for Footscray.. Played on Jones and did a good job.

I wasn't sure if he played for Footscray in this game in order to play on a better opponent or because he was seen as someone not in our best 22... Obvious now.

[Greystache]

Chill out, this is a thread put up for discussion, nothing more.

I just can't work out the point you're trying to make. You've said you don't want out of form players picked, but you want Williams promoted. You wanted Campbell dropped but are saying the MC made a mistake not picking Campbell.

Rather than start a thread "What is wrong with the MC and their Selections - baffling to all to say the least"- Why not just call it why is Talia not playing? That's all this seems to be about.

[LostDoggy]

Successful sides such as Geelong and the Swans have kept players back for years in order to advance their development, so as to ensure they are truly ready to play their role in the team. Putting players in who may well be talented but who do not adhere to the team first ethos or who keep making the same mistakes may well damage the team in the future. If the coach can see the same errors occurring, what do you expect him do?

So these sides necessarily require that those players be returned to the seconds where they will be educated further and given time to develop their skills and learn to execute / understand the team ethos and team game plan that is required. They will either find that they can change their behaviours or they cannot, in which case they will find they can make their way back to the seniors or they are gone at years end. Behaviour changes can be anything from adding weight so they are stronger at the contest, developing peripheral awareness, learning to turn their body at point of contact and so on. There are a myriad of behaviours that can be taught and practised, and then monitored in reserve games so that we see they have become second nature.

Part of the philosophy of Macca appears to be recruiting players to fight for the one position. This means that those with the tenacity to self sacrifice, change their games and work hard on their skills will rise to the top. What that will do is ultimately give us a side as great the 2 mentioned above.

I have no issue with player X not getting a game ahead of player Y if player Y does better what the coach asks, regardless of their height or speed. In the past, player X could get a game because there was no-one else at the time to fight for that position.

I suggest we are in a much better position now to educate our players to the way we want them to play, and I think it would be counterproductive to gift games to players on the basis of reputation or talent alone.

[bornadog]

I just can't work out the point you're trying to make. You've said you don't want out of form players picked, but you want Williams promoted. You wanted Campbell dropped but are saying the MC made a mistake not picking Campbell.

Rather than start a thread "What is wrong with the MC and their Selections - baffling to all to say the least"- Why not just call it why is Talia not playing? That's all this seems to be about.

The point I am trying to make is you can't go into a game with a lack of height down back and forward with little relief in the ruck.

We dont have many options available to us but what we do have is developing players in Talia, Cordy and Campbell as well as Williams.

instead of bagging the thread give us your thoughts on how we should set up or are you happy with the current lack of height

[Greystache]

The point I am trying to make is you can't go into a game with a lack of height down back and forward with little relief in the ruck.

We dont have many options available to us but what we do have is developing players in Talia, Cordy and Campbell as well as Williams.

instead of bagging the thread give us your thoughts on how we should set up or are you happy with the current lack of height

We kept Kennedy 2 goals in a thrashing which is a big reversal from when the taller Williams and Markovic played on him, and we kept Petrie to 2 goals when he has feasted on us previously. Big tick

Darling kicked 4 on Wood which was slightly above par, then again he kicked 7 in 2 games against us last year. Black only got 1 which is below par. Tick

Lecras kicked 5 as usual, he always kicks goals against us. Morris has not been a good match up for him and we needed to try someone else, so I was fine with it being Picken. Thomas is the current All Australian small forward and Picken kept him almost touchless. Lecras always kills us but Thomas well and truly destroyed. Tick

I don't see how a 20 year old with 13 games in Talia was going to change anything. Especially when disposal off half back has been a major weakness. Certainly not to the point of bagging the match committee for having no idea at least. I'm sure he'll get some games at some point, but the expectation on him it seems will be enormous.

I would have played Campbell, but then many people were demanding his head after 1 game, yourself included.

Cordy is miles off offering anything at AFL level, and Williams is probably the furthest away of anyone on our list. I wouldn't be even considering either.

So as for baffling MC selections- Talia I could take or leave for the moment. Campbell I didn't want dropped.

[Mofra]

The lack of height didn't hurt us against North Melbourne though - it was a lack of run and a propensity towards playing dumb football that killed us.

Black & Petrie both had 10cm+ and ~10kgs on their respective opponents (Wood & Morris) yet at halftime they only managed 2 goals as we did.

I do have an issue with the use of the sub but I'm not sure that is entirely a MC issue

[Greystache]

I do have an issue with the use of the sub but I'm not sure that is entirely a MC issue

I agree. I think the rapid development of Hunter has interrupted our plan of how we were to use Gia and the sub. I think the reality is Gia shouldn't play unless Hunter or Dahlhaus' form drops away. Even then I'd consider Honeychurch first.

The sub should be a running player that can come on fresh and add something as we tire. Bontempelli would be my choice this week.

[always right]

Interesting that some of the assessments of Talia's pre-season performance have been quite complimentary. Unfortunately our opinions are fairly superficial considering we have absolutely no idea what instructions he has been given by the coach. Despite what we might think, clearly the coach has different criteria he is assessing Talia's performance against.

Like everyone else I want to see Talia play because he is clearly a key component of our future. You have to admire McCartney though. Expectation was high amongst us supporters in the lead-up to the season....we were all bloody excited. The club has helped create that buzz and would have seen it as a key plank in their membership campaign. Every week we don't win increases the pressure on the coach. Why haven't we improved? Where are we going? Why won't he play more tall defenders?

McCartney would be forgiven for having a short term focus with a the emphasis on winning games NOW. It appears he has stuck firm to his beliefs that the club will benefit much more in the medium to long term if he stays true to his beliefs and develops players in the mould he believes will bring us success. We're impatient and have every right to be.....we've suffered for too long, but I still maintain faith that we are on the right track and I'm not about to start jumping up and down now because I don't agree with some of the MC decisions.

Mind you.....if we fricken lose to the tigers this week, I'll be calling for heads to roll.;)

[Axe Man]

Some insight into the Talia situation from BMac here:

Link (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-04-02/new-dogs-day-is-coming)

Key defender Michael Talia has spent the first two weeks of the 2014 season playing in the VFL.

The promising youngster had been regarded as potentially one of the best key defenders in the competition, but McCartney said he still needed to work on several areas of his game before he earned a senior call up this year.

"He's playing in the VFL and playing a lot better right now than he was three or four weeks ago," McCartney said.

"We've been working with him on two or three things in his game and he's still a very young player. If you think a young defender's ready inside their first two or three years, you generally get disappointed.

"He'll get his opportunity very soon provided he shows those behaviours and actions at VFL. He's pretty close to coming back, I would have thought."

[always right]

I agree. I think the rapid development of Hunter has interrupted our plan of how we were to use Gia and the sub. I think the reality is Gia shouldn't play unless Hunter or Dahlhaus' form drops away. Even then I'd consider Honeychurch first.

The sub should be a running player that can come on fresh and add something as we tire. Bontempelli would be my choice this week.

Maybe. Some clubs have subs that impact games because they have great physical attributes (Matt White being a good example). Some players with those attributes however find it difficult to come into games and have an immediate and real impact. Then there are players like Gia who have an impact simply because they are smart and know how to get involved. In Gia's case there is the added bonus that he uses the ball so well. Our problem on Sunday wasn't that Gia was our sub, but that he was brought on too late. It wasn't necessarily pace we were screaming out for....it was someone who could make good decisions and hit a bloody target.

[LostDoggy]

I agree. I think the rapid development of Hunter has interrupted our plan of how we were to use Gia and the sub. I think the reality is Gia shouldn't play unless Hunter or Dahlhaus' form drops away. Even then I'd consider Honeychurch first.

The sub should be a running player that can come on fresh and add something as we tire. Bontempelli would be my choice this week.

I also think the Gia sub plan needs to be shelved for a while. It worked well last year but this year doesn't seem to be adding much to our game. I'd rather have him start on the field, where his smarts and goal kicking ability (esp set shots) could add some composure and direction to our struggling forward line early in the game.

Alternatively, not play him and give some of the more time to some of the promising young forwards and ease others youngsters (bonts, honeychurch) through the green vest.

[bornadog]

Mind you.....if we fricken lose to the tigers this week, I'll be calling for heads to roll.;)

Start calling:p

[Mofra]

I agree. I think the rapid development of Hunter has interrupted our plan of how we were to use Gia and the sub.
Quite possibly - he isn't just overtaking others (and he's ahead of Gia and Dickson right now) but he doesn't seem at all far behind Dahlhaus as our best small forward.

I wonder where that leaves Hrovat & Honeychurch - with Picken, Jong, Boyd and Wallis in the side, they will probably have to come in as midfielders if anything.