Three Things I've Learned - Round 5 Edition

[Eastdog]

Once the Round 5 match against Carlton is completed, let us know the three things you learned after watching the match.

Be constructive but be honest.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[Mantis]

1/ You won't beat an egg with Young and Williams as your key defenders.

2/ Our kicking is very much hit or miss.. With more misses than hits.

3/ Our accountability across the board isn't improving.

[bulldogtragic]

1. Bontempelli is the way and the light.
2. I still need convincing on the Gia as the sub thing, I still really don't believe in it.
3. There are weeks when you tell the selected 22 'you didn't perform, you lost, impress me next week (ie. like after the North game) and there are weeks when you make wholesale changes because bad habits look like forming with some players. This week is the latter.

[FrediKanoute]

1. We still have a lot of work to do;
2. We have a real need to deveop some good defenders because losing Roughie and Morris really, really hurt today;
3. Hunter will have good days and bad days, but his not being there today robbed us of a spark around goals.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Blind Freddie could see all week how Carlton were going to play today, either with the exception of our coaching & or playing group.
2. It still doesn't seem to have sunk in to all players including our senior guys that work rate is not negotiable.
3. I am really starting to wonder if I have done the right thing by my baby son in signing him up as a member from birth, and trying to instil support of the team in him by teaching him to recognise and say 'Bulldogs' whenever he sees our insignia. If it doesn't seem to mean that much to some of the guys out there, then why the heck should it mean so much to me?

[MrMahatma]

1. Still a lot of improvement needed from our young guys until we can say we're a finals threat.
2. Tag Libba, kill our midfield.
3. We're still in 1 step forward, 2 steps back territory with our development.

[always right]

1. Picken to Gibbs or Murphy happened too late.
2. Minson is a shadow of the player he was last year
3. Bonts has the poise of a much older player

[azabob]

1. We let them spread way too easily from the contest which stuffed any chance our back six had.

2. Jack MaCrea could be a whole more lot damaging if he had the confidence to kick goals.

3. Things are as never as good, or as bad as we think.

[Remi Moses]

3 Allowed them to play on their own terms, and you could tell Desperate mick would throw away his boundary line game plan.
By the way playing that downhill skier style gets you nowhere.Big fail from the players and coaching staff.
2. Bontempelli will be some player( I see the Pendlebury connection)
1. We just can't afford to turn up occasionally and expect to win. The midfield as a group bludged in the first half in particular.

[Bulldog4life]

The spreading by the Carlton players was far superior to us.

The umpiring reverted back to playing tiggy touchwood frees again with the majority going to the opposition's advantage.

Tom Williams was a major disappointment for me.

[boydogs]

1. Macrae has no right foot
2. Stringer is a good assist player, lots of blocks and handballs to set up goals today
3. Our tall defenders need spoiling practice

[AndrewP6]

1. The Bont can play.
2. Crameri adds a lot when on song.
3. Tom Williams is a beneficiary of other players being unavailable.

Also learned that the umps are appalling. Hang on, I knew that.

[SlimPickens]

1. Minsons form or lack thereof is a concern.
2. Bonts has it.
3. Lapses in games are still killing us.

[LostDoggy]

1. Tom Williams is a relic of a bygone era of recruiting 'athletes'. He's not a footballers orange peel.

2. Has Austin been LTI elevated?

3. I hate our hot potato handballing, that's largely now habit, not design.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

1. Minson was outclassed which highlighted the need to add Campbell as a second ruckman.
2. The defence without Roughead and Morris is weak with Williams and Talia poor substitutes today.I would prefer to see Roberts and Austin played.
3. Honeychurch Hunter and Campbell need to be played when we have so many not up to par.

[soupman]

1. Crameri is going to be a very good recruit. He stuffed up a few things today but you can see how intense and hard working he is right to the end and I think like Griffen he is going to be one of those players that drags us back into games through sheer will power.

2. Jones has made the next step. Jones didn't kick a goal today, wasn't dominant around the ground and was not influential, but this is one of the first games he has played where despite failing all the above it didn't feel like he was missing. He had a presence, and was physical and aggressive. I was impressed.

3. Our first quarters are becoming a major problem. We continually let teams get the jump on us and it hurts as we are not a natural high scoring side and thus it takes a big effort to catch back up.

[SonofScray]

1. Our back six hasn't got the depth needed to handle really adverse scenarios for the selectors.

2. We work too hard for our opportunities to not hit the scoreboard.

3. When we don't play to our identity, we look very ordinary. A real lack of tenacity in close today.

[China Dog]

1. Jake Stringer appears to be a wasted pick on current form/attitude. Wines, Mayes and Vlastuin are all way ahead of him
2. We continually handball into a pack or to a player inside, good teams get it out into the open space
3. Will Minson doesn't do enough around the ground. When he is beaten in the middle, he doesn't make up for it around the ground

[always right]

1. Jake Stringer appears to be a wasted pick on current form/attitude. Wines, Mayes and Vlastuin are all way ahead of him
2. We continually handball into a pack or to a player inside, good teams get it out into the open space
3. Will Minson doesn't do enough around the ground. When he is beaten in the middle, he doesn't make up for it around the ground
Agree on the three blokes named being ahead of Stringer......at the moment. But wasted pick....really?

[LostDoggy]

1. Jong is much maligned. He plays back, through the middle and up forward. He has played very few games yet we expect perfection. He does have ball handling issues, but I say he is learning the game and shows improvement, if you look carefully. At one stage he shot out a handball that was exactly where it should have been to open up play....not something he has always been able to do. Practice at performing under pressure will see him hone his skills over time. It is far less instructive to look at the mistakes he makes.

2. We didn't work hard enough. Too often there weren't our players guarding the back and as a result the Blues could spread too easily. Our mids and forwards didn't defend well enough and did not give enough support for our defenders.

3. I think we are on the right track. It is heartening to hear McCartney say that we know the blue print to be successful; we now just have to get the players to adhere to it consistently on any given day.

[always right]

1. Jong is much maligned. He plays back, through the middle and up forward. He has played very few games yet we expect perfection. He does have ball handling issues, but I say he is learning the game and shows improvement if you look carefully. At one stage he shot out a handball that was exactly where it should have been to open up play....not something he has always been able to do. Practice at performing under pressure will see him hone his skills over time. It is far less instructive to look at the mistakes he makes.

I think Jong's development has been impressive but it's time for him to go back to Footscray where he can work further on his game. From my perspective there are three things he needs to work on;
1. His kicking has shown improvement but he still needs to develop greater penetration. At the moment he is a 40m kick at best.
2. Spatial awareness
3. Evasiveness....related to the above. He needs to develop somy tricks when under pressure. At the moment he is the last bloke you want to see the ball given to under pressure.

[LostDoggy]

1. Jake Stringer appears to be a wasted pick on current form/attitude. Wines, Mayes and Vlastuin are all way ahead of him.

Print this. Stick on wall. Come back to it in three years' time.

I learnt:

1. Good sportsmanship means you can still stick it up them even when you lose.
2. We're a young side, one step forward, one step back. When we do come of age, I think we'll be better placed than the 2008-2010 run.
3. Minson is human.

[GVGjr]

3 points about our supporters and a bonus one about one of our players:

Bulldog talk back callers on Finey's show are mainly clueless and their attack on certain players is unwarranted.

The call to "get some game time into the kids" by some supporters is nothing more than a get out of jail free card to discredit the club. Have a look at some of our young players the in our VFL side and we clearly shouldn't be rewarding their efforts so far. When they play well in the VFL then they have the best chance of playing well in the senior side. By the way, we already play plenty of younger players.

Some people need to exhibit more patience. We are still fixing things

Roughead is great bloke who the supporters really embrace. His effort yesterday talking to kids, getting photos taken and addressing the players sponsors was first rate. A natural leader

[SonofScray]

3 points about our supporters and a bonus one about one of our players:

Bulldog talk back callers on Finey's show are mainly clueless and their attack on certain players is unwarranted.

The call to "get some game time into the kids" by some supporters is nothing more than a get out of jail free card to discredit the club. Have a look at some of our young players the in our VFL side and we clearly shouldn't be rewarding their efforts so far. When they play well in the VFL then they have the best chance of playing well in the senior side. By the way, we already play plenty of younger players.

Some people need to exhibit more patience. We are still fixing things

Roughead is great bloke who the supporters really embrace. His effort yesterday talking to kids, getting photos taken and addressing the players sponsors was first rate. A natural leader

Agree. With the VFL side now there isn't as big an excuse to not know what is going on with "the kids," and where they are placed for a gig in the firsts. Fine went WHACK on Higgins, Cooney and Williams and while there was some merit based on yesterday's effort I think it was appealing to a certain type of Doggies fan. Nothing will be good enough for them. There isn't a lot of great form in the squad outside the 22 picked at the moment so we just have to ask for better from those who are there. I could rotate maybe 3 players IN and OUT but we wouldn't be getting great value from wholesale changes.

Roughie is the next Captain of the Club I think. Terrific fella, bleeds RW&B.

[The bulldog tragician]

Thanks for these comments GVJ. I absolutely hate losing to Carlton and the defeat hurts and shows us how far we have to go in physical and mental maturity,

BUT we played yesterday without our key defensive spine. Despite the many deficiencies on display I reckon we could well have won with Roughy and Morris out there, and there would be far less angst here. We still had chances to win in the last qtr. if we hadn't bled so many goals from the limitations/inexperience of Williams, Talia, and Young, the gap would have been nowhere near as great; Murphy would have been unshackled to be more creative. I don't think we did ourselves any favors with our selections or tactics, and we caught them at their most fired up ( we should have expected this, though).

There's always a multitude of reasons why we lose. We're not as bad as the loss makes us think, and not as good as a win would have made us think, because really, we just didn't work hard enough on the day.

[LostDoggy]

1. Bonts is the closest thing to "the next Pendlebury" I've seen since that became a thing.

2. Stew really hates Carlton. A few times there I thought he was about to wind up and belt Simon White.

3. If we're a chance to win against any halfway decent side, we cannot afford to play at anything less than 100% for 4 quarters. We aint that good yet.

[Go_Dogs]

1. Jones is just about there now, I thought he took some very good marks yesterday and his field kicking was pretty good for a big bloke too. If we can get one of Campbell/Cordy in some form and in the side spending a bit of time forward, plus Grant back and in form, we will have a pretty good forward line mix.

2. We still have a lot of improvement to make after the initial possession is won. Our concentration is poor, we too often allow an opponent to sneak out the side or out the front and yesterday when we were seemingly well beaten in the centre clearances and contested ball, we looked woeful. Our positioning needs to be smarter.

3. When a side plays a short kicking game to lead up players, we literally make it look like a training drill. They were able to transition the ball easily with short kicks to leading players, a handball receive and off they go. They almost looked like a Hawthorn side, spotting up players, particularly in the forward half. We need to learn how to do it and how to defend it.

[firstdogonthemoon]

I learned Tom Williams isn't as good as I thought he was.

I learned that number 4 is called The Bont rather than The Bonbon which is what I suggested also that he will be pretty good.

I also remembered rather than learned what bad umpiring looks like. It has been ok so far up until this game. Didn't cost us the win but...

[boydogs]

1. Jake Stringer appears to be a wasted pick on current form/attitude. Wines, Mayes and Vlastuin are all way ahead of him

They are all midfielders

[ReLoad]

1. Bontempelli - The kids called him 'BrokenTelly" So for us he is now the "Busted TV."
2. Libba and the kids still have a lot of learning to do. The experience of Murphy Gibbs etc showed out, they knew when and where to run to, something our kids are not consistently good at yet. (Macrae excepted - it comes naturally to him)
3. Robert Murphy should not be consistently dragged back to full back, poor coaching and on field leadership

[azabob]

3. Robert Murphy should not be consistently dragged back to full back, poor coaching and on field leadership

Do you think it had something to do with how humstrung we were down there? Typically Morris or Young would have rotated with Murphy but with Morris out and Young play KP it couldn't be done.

[Greystache]

Do you think it had something to do with how humstrung we were down there? Typically Morris or Young would have rotated with Murphy but with Morris out and Young play KP it couldn't be done.

Also with Wallis getting getting beaten we had to move Picken into a midfield tagging role.

[lemmon]

1. We need to play the extra tall forward, even if Campbell/Cordy add very little it forces Carlton to play Henderson back and Minson gets a ruck chop out
2. We are slow to mix things up. Wallis should have gone to Gibbs and Picken to Murphy at quarter time
1. The composure of Bontempelli is terrific, very happy

[Mantis]

1. We need to play the extra tall forward, even if Campbell/Cordy add very little it forces Carlton to play Henderson back and Minson gets a ruck chop out


Wouldn't you just call our bluff and play anyone in Cordy or Campbell?

And Minson is playing 90-93% game time at present so the relief work is only required for about 3 mins per quarter.

[SonofScray]

Wouldn't you just call our bluff and play anyone in Cordy or Campbell?

And Minson is playing 90-93% game time at present so the relief work is only required for about 3 mins per quarter.

Thats effectively what we've asked of Wood recently and used to ask of Gilbee. Hard running teams will kill us on the counter. Campbell potentially creates enough of a contest in the air and on the ground to feed Hunter and Dahl. His form doesn't warrant selection though.

We're going to have some ugly days down back until Morris and Roughie are back, even then we desperately need Talia and or Roberts to step up.

[Maddog37]

1 Stringer is an onballer and a very good one. Hope he has the tank.

2 Minno is getting flogged most weeks. Either injured, lack of preseason or workload has caught up to him. It is making our midfield overly defensive as a result.

3 Williams, Murphy, Cooney, Talia, Young and Higgins had 6 tackles between them. Mark Murphy had 12. Libba had 7 and Dal had 6 as our best. They had 20% more tackles overall. We played like millionaires.

[Greystache]

Wouldn't you just call our bluff and play anyone in Cordy or Campbell?

And Minson is playing 90-93% game time at present so the relief work is only required for about 3 mins per quarter.

With Cordy probably, but if opposition clubs tried to play a mid 180's cm player on Campbell I'd back him to kick 3-4 goals most weeks if the midfield can get the ball in deep to the 50m.

We played our best footy last year with Campbell as a deep target. He was a credible marking threat and he gave our small forwards a structure to work around. He's not a lead up forward but with Crameri and Jones working hard he shouldn't need to be.

[Maddog37]

Is it worth freeing up Wallis and seeing whether he can get a kick?

[bulldogtragic]

Is it worth freeing up Wallis and seeing whether he can get a kick?

You could make an argument that Wallis takes Jong role, Picken takes Wallis role and Jong or JJ takes the defence role Picken is playing. Make of it what you will.

[Hotdog60]

When Wallis and Libba came to the club I thought they both played the inside mid role with Libba streaking ahead of Wallis.
Would it be worth the two of them swapping roles during a game to throw the tag. It could be totally random and at the discretion of both players, I also think Libba has been a bit down of performance compared to previous years.

[Mantis]

Is it worth freeing up Wallis and seeing whether he can get a kick?

Does he play in front of Boyd, Griff or Libba as an attacking inside player?

If the answer is no then he either tags or bides his time in the VFL.

[China Dog]

They were the next three picks after Jake Stringer. I think he is extremely talented but he appears to be more interested in strutting around the goal square and less in making leads and chasing down the opposition.

[Remi Moses]

They were the next three picks after Jake Stringer. I think he is extremely talented but he appears to be more interested in strutting around the goal square and less in making leads and chasing down the opposition.

Long long way to go before I'd be making a final judgement on picks in 2012

[bulldogtragic]

They were the next three picks after Jake Stringer. I think he is extremely talented but he appears to be more interested in strutting around the goal square and less in making leads and chasing down the opposition.

He's not the only one. I think a few of the kids are reading their Hun hype and not doing what is needed. I think a trip to the magoos as with Hunter is in order. They are the future, but not with what they've been displaying.

[Greystache]

Is it worth freeing up Wallis and seeing whether he can get a kick?

Not for me.

I think of all the similar types we have on our list eg Libba, Hrovat, Smith, Bonts, Stringer, Jong, Honeychurch etc Wallis probably has the least upside as a ball winner.

I think he has to tag if he's going to play seniors, and he needs to develop a lot to be able to play that role every week. If Jong can develop to the point he can play that role, with his extra flexibility, Wallis could be in a bit of danger long term. I hope not because he gives his footy everything he has, which I admire, and he's a great representative for the club.

[Scorlibo]

What Wallis brings is cleanliness with the ball in hand and good decision making. When he's not following someone around he's also really handy at finding space to be a link-up player. He hasn't been able to continue his form on from last year but I have confidence that he'll be okay.

[lemmon]

Wouldn't you just call our bluff and play anyone in Cordy or Campbell?

And Minson is playing 90-93% game time at present so the relief work is only required for about 3 mins per quarter.

I think Campbell would deserve a decent match up. I'd back him in to clunk enough to do some damage.

Is the amount of time Minson's spending in the ruck affecting his form? Probably not because it's the job he did last year but at least if Campbell is in the side we have the option to change it up when Warnock was giving Will a bath. I think we are too quick to dismiss Tom's form towards the end of last year when he was quite good leading out of full forward.

[lemmon]

What Wallis brings is cleanliness with the ball in hand and good decision making. When he's not following someone around he's also really handy at finding space to be a link-up player. He hasn't been able to continue his form on from last year but I have confidence that he'll be okay.

I agree that he'll make it but the problem with using him as that link up type is what he does with the ball in space. He's as liable to turn it over as he is to hit a target heading into half forward. I think he deserves his spot in the 22 as a midfield tagger but if we are looking to free him up he has to battle with Libba, Boyd, Stevens and Clay Smith as the genuine inside mids

[SonofScray]

I think Campbell would deserve a decent match up. I'd back him in to clunk enough to do some damage.

Is the amount of time Minson's spending in the ruck affecting his form? Probably not because it's the job he did last year but at least if Campbell is in the side we have the option to change it up when Warnock was giving Will a bath. I think we are too quick to dismiss Tom's form towards the end of last year when he was quite good leading out of full forward.

I think it might be. Mentally there would be some baggage for Will going into another long year of carrying a hefty workload solo. If he is carrying a niggle early as well you could imagine there might be a bit of self preservation creeping into his game.

[Greystache]

I agree that he'll make it but the problem with using him as that link up type is what he does with the ball in space. He's as liable to turn it over as he is to hit a target heading into half forward. I think he deserves his spot in the 22 as a midfield tagger but if we are looking to free him up he has to battle with Libba, Boyd, Stevens and Clay Smith as the genuine inside mids

He also can't play the link up role because he simply can't make a quick decision. His kicking is pretty poor, but it's his decision making that makes it look so bad. He takes so long to decide what to do with the ball invariably his only option is to go short and sideways, which is what he ends up doing majority of the time.

[bulldogtragic]

He also can't play the link up role because he simply can't make a quick decision. His kicking is pretty poor, but it's his decision making that makes it look so bad. He takes so long to decide what to do with the ball invariably his only option is to go short and sideways, which is what he ends up doing majority of the time.

His kicking yesterday was absolutely in the 'mung' category. Even his goal was a shank. He's a great young man, i'm hoping the slow start to the season is an anolomoly of what to expect over his career. But there are players like Bonts, Smith, Hrovat and Honeychurch who have plenty of development left and nature will take its course. If this is Wally's ceiling he might struggle over the long term. In the meantime i'm hoping for good things from Wally and for Wally.

[Maddog37]

I still think back to his TAC grand final game. Running machine that could just find the ball.

Why could he not be every bit as good as a James Kelly?

[LostDoggy]

Someone back earlier in this thread stated that Jones did not score a goal yesterday. I'm pretty sure he got one in the first quarter, it may have been our first for the day.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Someone back earlier in this thread stated that Jones did not score a goal yesterday. I'm pretty sure he got one in the first quarter, it may have been our first for the day.

he missed it.

[lemmon]

I still think back to his TAC grand final game. Running machine that could just find the ball.

Why could he not be every bit as good as a James Kelly?
Kelly is a very underrated kick, not especially damaging but hits his targets

[Greystache]

I still think back to his TAC grand final game. Running machine that could just find the ball.

Why could he not be every bit as good as a James Kelly?

Ashley Arrowsmith was BOG in the 2006 TAC Cup grand final and was delisted by West Coast without playing a game.

Dean Kelly was BOG in 2005, Captained Oakleigh to the flag, and came runner in the Morrish medal and didn't even get drafted. Junior footy means nothing, it's about how you can step up against less limited players. It's why half of the draftees every year don't make it.

[Maddog37]

I get that, but he needs to be able to play a few games as a footballer rather than just tagging before we can truely judge that surely....

[Greystache]

I get that, but he needs to be able to play a few games as a footballer rather than just tagging before we can truely judge that surely....

He's currently tagging because he was really struggling to cope with the pace of the game at AFL level as a ball winner. He's slow of foot and mind at this point. Were he not tagging he'd be playing VFL.

[Maddog37]

Play him in the VFL then. Just as long as we stop using him as a tagger!

[Scorlibo]

He also can't play the link up role because he simply can't make a quick decision. His kicking is pretty poor, but it's his decision making that makes it look so bad. He takes so long to decide what to do with the ball invariably his only option is to go short and sideways, which is what he ends up doing majority of the time.

It's funny that I'm pretty well saying the exact opposite. I think Wallis' decision making in tight is very good - usually takes the first option and doesn't play beyond his limitations, hits targets. Last year he played very well for these reasons, in addition to shutting key opposition players out.

[LostDoggy]

1. Tom Williams is a relic of a bygone era of recruiting 'athletes'. He's not a footballers orange peel.

2. Has Austin been LTI elevated?

3. I hate our hot potato handballing, that's largely now habit, not design.

Have you noticed that when our players get the ball, even if there is space ahead for them to run and carry, their first reaction is to automatically look to handball it to somebody else? I witnessed this on several occasions. It would be fine if they were handballing to a player sprinting past but more often than not, it's to a guy who is stationary with an opponent on their feet.

[LostDoggy]

[/B]

Have you noticed that when our players get the ball, even if there is space ahead for them to run and carry, their first reaction is to automatically look to handball it to somebody else? I witnessed this on several occasions. It would be fine if they were handballing to a player sprinting past but more often than not, it's to a guy who is stationary with an opponent on their feet.

Sure have Hob, and that's what i'm talking about. It's auto-induced in the brain, and achieves little. As a side note, why does Koby generally decide to run back into a pack situation when he gathers the ball in tight? Rarely does he ever get through without being caught.

[always right]

Sure have Hob, and that's what i'm talking about. It's auto-induced in the brain, and achieves little. As a side note, why does Koby generally decide to run back into a pack situation when he gathers the ball in tight? Rarely does he ever get through without being caught.

I wouldn't mind it so much if he also kept his arms free so he can offload a handball. He's a beast of a bloke but seems to forget that most opposition players are just as strong.

[LostDoggy]

Sure have Hob, and that's what i'm talking about. It's auto-induced in the brain, and achieves little. As a side note, why does Koby generally decide to run back into a pack situation when he gathers the ball in tight? Rarely does he ever get through without being caught.

Yeah I'm not sure why he does that? Very frustrating when players do the work to win a ball and then head back into traffic. I think we overuse the ball with handball more than any other team. You're right when you say the automatic reaction is to give the ball off straight away is programmed into the brain. You can just see it happen, the player receives and instead of making a quick assessment of whether to take off and carry, they automatically look to offload it by hand. How many times did we sell a teammate into trouble on the weekend by giving them the ball when not in a good possie to receive it? The other side of the coin could be that players need to not be so flat footed so when they do get it, they're on the move.

[always right]

Yeah I'm not sure why he does that? Very frustrating when players do the work to win a ball and then head back into traffic. I think we overuse the ball with handball more than any other team. You're right when you say the automatic reaction is to give the ball off straight away is programmed into the brain. You can just see it happen, the player receives and instead of making a quick assessment of whether to take off and carry, they automatically look to offload it by hand. How many times did we sell a teammate into trouble on the weekend by giving them the ball when not in a good possie to receive it? The other side of the coin could be that players need to not be so flat footed so when they do get it, they're on the move.

I reckon this is the key. Would be staggered if this isn't something they work on at training. Anyone who handballs to a bloke who isn't on the move should result in a severe flogging for both players. Discipline I say...it's the only way the buggers will learn.