" Could've Beens. "

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Over your era, so to speak, what players have come and gone who had potential - but never fully realised it? Who could've been, but wasn't?

I'm sure over the last 50 or so years there would be quite a few names.

To start the ball rolling, Mark West was a prime example. He was fantastic, his aggression and desire for the ball was brillant to watch and often team lifting. He was for the short period, somewhat of a cult figure, being darked skin with - if I remember correctly - dreadlocks, or perhaps braids?

In any event, Mark West could've been a very good player but he struggled with injuries and weight problems.

On a side not; I can't remember much about Jason Watts, what happened to him? I used to like him as a kid, being the whole "snap over the shoulder" type of player he was. Anyone able to shed some light on that one?

[Twodogs]

Lally.



Les Bamblett gave us one good season but what a season it was! Stood next to Simon Beasley and waited for Royal, Wallis, Buhagiar, the Cordy boys and the rest to pump the ball long and if Beazer didnt mark it then lally would swoop on it and kick a sublime goal.

He didnt ran, he waddled. Defenders would run into each other, fall over their own feet, drop marks and fumble and little Lally would waddle into the middle of all the chaos, tuck the ball under his arm and waddle into the goal square all by himself.


Amazing, prodigious talent and it was all gone after a season and a bit.

[Dry Rot]

Ask any Blues fan and they will just whisper "Bartlett".

[bulldogtragic]

Ask any Blues fan and they will just whisper "Bartlett".
Or Lance Angwin and Karl Norman.

Big waste of talent.



DR I hope you dont mean Trent. Trent is just a few more AFL seasons off realising his potential, i'm holding hope for a mature aged rookie spot in 2008.

[Dry Rot]

Or Lance Angwin and Karl Norman.

Big waste of talent.



DR I hope you dont mean Trent. Trent is just a few more AFL seasons off realising his potential, i'm holding hope for a mature aged rookie spot in 2008.

The reason they whisper his name is that tBlues fans are still in therapy after Bartlett destroyed their side.

Twice.

I'm expecting Bartlett to return as the mature age rookie in 2008 too, and with delivery from the likes of Aker, Griffen etc he will push either McDougall or Darcy into the Bees, and win the Norm Smith kicking the winning goal in our first premiership since '54.

And with a membership target of 45,000 in 2009, the club will build a giant statue of Bartlett taller than the Rialto building visible across all of western Melbourne......

[bornadog]

We have had a couple of big guys that showed a lot of potential but never went on with it. I can name Illia Grgic, Justin Charles, a player from the 80's, Campbell (can't remember his first name and its not Tony Campbell), Salmon from the 70's. Lots of big guys but not stars with potential unfulfilled.

[K9-54]

Adrian Campbell.

One of mine - Shane Loveless - there was an article somewhere recently about him.

And some comments on a few of yours I don't agree with :

Ian Salmon - always thought of him more as someone who got the most out of their limited ability

Grgic and Charles - they were tall and probably belong in the "I played AFL because of my height" club rather than the "could've beens"

[alwaysadog]

Adrian Campbell.

One of mine - Shane Loveless - there was an article somewhere recently about him.

And some comments on a few of yours I don't agree with :

Ian Salmon - always thought of him more as someone who got the most out of their limited ability

Grgic and Charles - they were tall and probably belong in the "I played AFL because of my height" club rather than the "could've beens"

Injuries wrecked Adrian's career.

Sock eye probably did his best work for us while looking after the young Steve Wallis at Leongatha.

Ilja had a spinal fusion and that meant he could never perform well over the longer haul. Played a great game against Melbourne in 1994 or 5 when he got hurt at the first bounce and kicked six in a forward pocket with a heavily strapped thigh. Wasn't he best man at Chris Grant's wedding?

Justin was the darling of the trainers who remembered his father Bob playing for us, prodigious talent not sure where the head was most of the time. Played baseball for Australia as a junior and ruined his league career hopping over to the states to try out a season there when he should have been honing his craft here.

[Twodogs]

Justin was the darling of the trainers who remembered his father Bob playing for us,


John.



He is a local plumber in the Western Suburbs. I once asked him if he saw any of Justin's career. He told me he much preferred surfing.

[alwaysadog]

John.



He is a local plumber in the Western Suburbs. I once asked him if he saw any of Justin's career. He told me he much preferred surfing.

Absolutely correct, it should have been John. Silly me having him sired by an NZ golfer. Mind you it says something. I know where I'd be if either of mine were playing.

[LostDoggy]

Cameron Faulkner.

[Remi Moses]

Cameron Faulkner.

The next mcleod:eek::eek:

[Sockeye Salmon]

Injuries wrecked Adrian's career.

Sock eye probably did his best work for us while looking after the young Steve Wallis at Leongatha.

Ilja had a spinal fusion and that meant he could never perform well over the longer haul. Played a great game against Melbourne in 1994 or 5 when he got hurt at the first bounce and kicked six in a forward pocket with a heavily strapped thigh. Wasn't he best man at Chris Grant's wedding?

Justin was the darling of the trainers who remembered his father Bob playing for us, prodigious talent not sure where the head was most of the time. Played baseball for Australia as a junior and ruined his league career hopping over to the states to try out a season there when he should have been honing his craft here.

The best game Illya played at the Western Oval was when he kicked 6 on Craig Ellis while he was playing for Freo.

Edit: That was seriously stupid post. Daniel Bandy kicked 6 on Horse. Illya never even played for Freo!

[Remi Moses]

Daniel Hargraves anyone?Alistar Ford,John Georgiadis,Allan Jennings.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

NEIL Sache, Tom Alvin, Ted Whitten Jnr if he'd gone in harder. Brad Hardie should have given more than one good season. Shane Loveless was the one that showed so much so little.

[ledge]

Tom Williams?

[Scraggers]

Zeno Tatzaris ... I thought he was going to be the next big thing

[becmatty]

Mark West. He looked like The Predator and was smashing it up until suspension and injury cut his career short. In 97 or 98 he was splitting packs and charging through players like a machine and looked a marketing dream for the club. He missed a shot in the 97 final when steaming into an open goal against Adelaide that would have put us into the GF. If he had kicked it (post high) from 45 metres, I think anything could have happened, but it sailed just wide and inexplicedly his career seemed to combust from that moment.

[Desipura]

Zeno Tatzaris ... I thought he was going to be the next big thing
I'll do TCD's job here, you mean Tzatzaris. :D

[LostDoggy]

Keenan Reynolds. Looked set to hold down CHB but after he kept Stewart Loewe quiet in the finals in the 90's I think he got a bit ahead of himself. Moved on to North Melbourne with no great impact.

[LostDoggy]

Also wasn't Stuart Wigney the next Dermott Brereton?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Mark West. He looked like The Predator and was smashing it up until suspension and injury cut his career short. In 97 or 98 he was splitting packs and charging through players like a machine and looked a marketing dream for the club. He missed a shot in the 97 final when steaming into an open goal against Adelaide that would have put us into the GF. If he had kicked it (post high) from 45 metres, I think anything could have happened, but it sailed just wide and inexplicedly his career seemed to combust from that moment.

Unfortunately West had a glass shoulder.

More often than not the wrecking ball ended up wrecked.

[always right]

Ah yes...Stuart Wigney...a real coodabeen.

Richard Murrie was a wasted talent.......and John Georgiadis and Alan Jennings could have been the same player.

Steve Kretiuk ended up a great servant of the club but in his earlier years he looked like being so much more until those bloody hanstrings went to work.

When Steve Kolinuik first hit the scene he looked like he could be anything. Pace, creativity and confidence. Instead of a damaging on-baller he became an exciting forward pocket goalsneak. As good as he was, I always felt he never quite reached his early potential. He was also a bit like Leon Cameron in that I always felt more confident when he swung onto his wrong foot heading for goal.

[Mantis]

When Steve Kolynuik first hit the scene he looked like he could be anything. Pace, creativity and confidence. Instead of a damaging on-baller he became an exciting forward pocket goalsneak. As good as he was, I always felt he never quite reached his early potential. He was also a bit like Leon Cameron in that I always felt more confident when he swung onto his wrong foot heading for goal.

In 1992 he put together a string of 2 or 3 games which showed he could become a very damaging HF. IIRC he kicked 6 against Carlton at the G and another 4 against North (I think 4.6). He got picked for Victoria shortly after and then he went off the rails a little, probably didn't work hard enough on his fitness and subsequently he didn't reach his full potential.

[GetDimmaBack]

Jimmy Plunkett.

Looked like he could be anything playing in the magoos - Terry Wallace said he lost track of the number of people who asked him when Jimmy was going to play...

One of those "in-between" players: far too good for Reserve grade, didn't cut it in the seniors.

Any think Tyson Lane fits here too?

[Scraggers]

I'll do TCD's job here, you mean Tzatzaris. :D

Cheers ... spelinks knot mye stron point ... :) And I'm a teacher :o

In my defence, look at the time i posted ... how is anyone supposed to be able to spell Tzatzaris at that ungodly hour

[bornadog]

Ted Whitten Jnr if he'd gone in harder.

Not sure what you mean by that comment.

I wouldn't put him in the could"ve been category, I thought he was an above average player, and I think he played for the Big V.

[Bulldog4life]

A player who I thought might have made it was John Ballantyne. He played full forward and could kick the ball out of sight. Played some terrific games with the ressies and kicked some mighty goals but couldn't quite put it together in the seniors.

Finished up at Collingwood playing full back for a brief time.

[LostDoggy]

Mark Alvey.

Taken high in the 97' draft IIRC and never justified the high draft pick.

[GVGjr]

Keenan Reynolds. Looked set to hold down CHB but after he kept Stewart Loewe quiet in the finals in the 90's I think he got a bit ahead of himself. Moved on to North Melbourne with no great impact.

Not really. Knowing he probably had only a couple of seasons more of regular senior football in front of him he couldn't knock back the dollars the Roos offered him. It was a mistake though because he couldn't find a spot in the side.

I liked him as a footballer and thought he was OK as a defender and reasonable as a forward.

[GVGjr]

Hugh Reimers was a player that should have become a regular player in our senior line-up but a combination of injuries, form and coaches looking to make an impact did not work for him and he was curt after 2 fruitless seasons.

Given his height and mobility he would have been an ideal tall defender that we chased for so many years.

[The Pie Man]

Mark West. He looked like The Predator and was smashing it up until suspension and injury cut his career short. In 97 or 98 he was splitting packs and charging through players like a machine and looked a marketing dream for the club. He missed a shot in the 97 final when steaming into an open goal against Adelaide that would have put us into the GF. If he had kicked it (post high) from 45 metres, I think anything could have happened, but it sailed just wide and inexplicedly his career seemed to combust from that moment.

He was about 30 out for that shot - a real shame his body didn't hold up

There were a few from that era like James Cook that should've given more.

I got excited by Patrick Wiggins after seeing him kick a few against Brisbane at the Western Oval one pre-season.....

I thought Keiran McGuinness was going to be something else.

Tim Walsh sans knee problems could've been something

[alwaysadog]

Not really. Knowing he probably had only a couple of seasons more of regular senior football in front of him he couldn't knock back the dollars the Roos offered him. It was a mistake though because he couldn't find a spot in the side.

I liked him as a footballer and thought he was OK as a defender and reasonable as a forward.

Keenan is still dirty about leaving the Dogs. He has always blamed Joycie, says he didn't want to go but no contract was offered to him. Great bloke, used to take the piss out of Wheels when he got carried away. Famous for his "Where's the f***ing backmen", remark when Wheels had spent all his time yet again showing how to create goals.

Rather than an underachiever I would put him up as someone who through attitude got the most from his talent, afterall Essendon let us have him because they thought he couldn't play at all.

[alwaysadog]

Not sure what you mean by that comment.

I wouldn't put him in the could"ve been category, I thought he was an above average player, and I think he played for the Big V.

Ted jnr wasn't as good as his dad, but then no body before or since has been. Young Ted carried the unbelieveable expectations that he would be the equivalent of the second coming.

He played about 150 games made the BigV when it meant something and was retired by a crippling knee injury, and was highly respected his teamates. Gee I'd like to have underachieved like that.

[GVGjr]

Keenan is still dirty about leaving the Dogs. He has always blamed Joycie, says he didn't want to go but no contract was offered to him. Great bloke, used to take the piss out of Wheels when he got carried away. Famous for his "Where's the f***ing backmen", remark when Wheels had spent all his time yet again showing how to create goals.

Rather than an underachiever I would put him up as someone who through attitude got the most from his talent, afterall Essendon let us have him because they thought he couldn't play at all.

He was a real character and loved his time at the Dogs. I went to a selectors night years ago and sat on a table with his mother and a couple of relatives. His mother said that she would follow Keenan where ever he played but she would be sticking with the Dogs because they had been so good to him.

[Sockeye Salmon]

He was a real character and loved his time at the Dogs. I went to a selectors night years ago and sat on a table with his mother and a couple of relatives. His mother said that she would follow Keenan where ever he played but she would be sticking with the Dogs because they had been so good to him.

Keenan's former long-term partner was my cousin so I got to know him sort of. He grew up in Werribee and was zoned to the Dogs but wanted to play for Essendon so he used his grandmothers address in Moonee Ponds.

Then Essendon didn't want him so all of a sudden the Bulldogs didn't seem such a bad option any more.

[LostDoggy]

Keenan is still dirty about leaving the Dogs. He has always blamed Joycie, says he didn't want to go but no contract was offered to him. Great bloke, used to take the piss out of Wheels when he got carried away. Famous for his "Where's the f***ing backmen", remark when Wheels had spent all his time yet again showing how to create goals.

Rather than an underachiever I would put him up as someone who through attitude got the most from his talent, afterall Essendon let us have him because they thought he couldn't play at all.


I wasn't aware of that Alwaysadog, a damn shame then.

[Scraggers]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Farren Ray as yet ...
Pick number 4 in the 2003 AFL Draft (Behind #1 Adam Cooney, #2 Andrew Walker - Carlton, #3 Colin Sylvia - Melbourne ... all three priority picks for thier prospective clubs) he has played 75 games and now just been swapped for a second round draft pick ... 'Could've Been' better ...

[Desipura]

Cheers ... spelinks knot mye stron point ... :) And I'm a teacher :o

In my defence, look at the time i posted ... how is anyone supposed to be able to spell Tzatzaris at that ungodly hour
Let me let you in on a secret, my greek background assisted me in the spelling ;)

[LostDoggy]

Tim Walsh. 2002 Pick 4. 1 game, 1 goal.

What might have been - may already have a couple of premierships with a gun KPF (no other term for it at pick 4) 6 years into the system.

(top 10 from that year: Brendan Goddard, Daniel Wells, Jared Brennan, Tim Walsh, Jarrod McVeigh, Steven Salopek, Andrew Mackie, Luke Brennan, Hamish McIntosh, Jason Laycock. Will Minson was pick 20 from that draft, so one could say Walsh should be playing the position Minnow is now.)

[gohardorgohome]

I think it was a bit rough having Ted Whitten Jnr on this list.....he fed Templeton many many goals....a great pass.

I think his knees were stuffed by the time he was 23

[The Pie Man]

Jimmy Plunkett.

Looked like he could be anything playing in the magoos - Terry Wallace said he lost track of the number of people who asked him when Jimmy was going to play...

One of those "in-between" players: far too good for Reserve grade, didn't cut it in the seniors.

Any think Tyson Lane fits here too?

Do I remember Plunkett having a good finals series at Carlton under Wayne Brittain?

[KT31]

Injuries wrecked Adrian's career.

Sock eye probably did his best work for us while looking after the young Steve Wallis at Leongatha.

Justin was the darling of the trainers who remembered his father Bob playing for us, prodigious talent not sure where the head was most of the time. .

Disagree the Sockeye on Woof did his best work looking out for a young KT31 at ET's in
Pahran or even on the Fairstar.

Justin's Uncle also played or us and was still underpinning in his 70's.
And one conversation with him may explain a little bit about Justin's mandatory retirement.

[GetDimmaBack]

Disagree the Sockeye on Woof did his best work looking out for a young KT31 at ET's in
Pahran or even on the Fairstar.

Justin's Uncle also played or us and was still underpinning in his 70's.
And one conversation with him may explain a little bit about Justin's mandatory retirement.

Care to enlighten us further, KT31?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Not sure what you mean by that comment.

I wouldn't put him in the could"ve been category, I thought he was an above average player, and I think he played for the Big V.

He was an elite kick and feed Templeton with a lot of perfect passes, he clearly shared a lot of his fathers genes. However he had none of his father's mongrel, none of his fanatical determination, he lacked toughness despite having some talent comparable to his father's. He had no taste for the physical contest. With this toughness he Could've Been.

[ledge]

Wasnt it JNRs ankles that forced him to give the game away?

[bornadog]

He was an elite kick and feed Templeton with a lot of perfect passes, he clearly shared a lot of his fathers genes. However he had none of his father's mongrel, none of his fanatical determination, he lacked toughness despite having some talent comparable to his father's. He had no taste for the physical contest. With this toughness he Could've Been.

Agree with the toughness side, but was still a skilled player that was above average, not a champion but more than a couldv'e been

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Agree with the toughness side, but was still a skilled player that was above average, not a champion but more than a couldv'e been

Yes I think you're right, in fact he is a legend, not just because he was a legend's son. However to me "could've been" means "if only", and if only Teddy jnr was hard at it (and not injured) he could've been recognised Australia wide for his real talents and helped Footscray even to get a premiership. Kelvin and he, you know.. were pretty awesome together.

[bornadog]

Yes I think you're right, in fact he is a legend, not just because he was a legend's son. However to me "could've been" means "if only", and if only Teddy jnr was hard at it (and not injured) he could've been recognised Australia wide for his real talents and helped Footscray even to get a premiership. Kelvin and he, you know.. were pretty awesome together.

Lot of couldve Beens played with them from 1978 to the early 80's, so premierships were a dream.

[craigsahibee]

Do I remember Plunkett having a good finals series at Carlton under Wayne Brittain?

Don't know about "series" but I seem to recall him picking up close to 40 possesions in a finals game.