2014 Game Day Round 5 - Western Bulldogs V Carlton

[Eastdog]

Dogs by 38 points
Jones to get the first goal
Griffen to be best on ground

[F'scary]

Go Western.

Can't stop thinking about the game and still more than 24 hours away...

With Jamieson out and the form that Crameri & Jones are in there will be a lot of double coverage of them, so I'm tipping one of our "third" forwards to kick a bag. Could be Stringer's day.

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 33
First goal Jones
BOG Jones

[bulldogtragic]

Dog-my-sters by 40
Minson goal and BOG

[Greystache]

Dogs by 25
BOG- Boyd
First goal- Dahlhaus

[1eyedog]

This is the kind of one we'll lose and the kind of one they'll win. Blues by 17 pts.
BOG Libba
First goal Jones

[azabob]

This is the kind of one we'll lose and the kind of one they'll win. Blues by 17 pts.
BOG Libba
First goal Jones

I hear what you are saying and I tend to agree, but surely Melbourne thought the same thing last week?

[boydogs]

I dunno, you don't lose to Melbourne without being really bad.

Dogs by 45
BOG Boyd
First Goal Stevens

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Dogs by 21.
BOG Cooney.
First goal Crameri.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Dogs by 42 points
BOG Minson back to AA form
1st Goal Gia

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 39
First goal Stringer
Best on ground Stringer kicks 7 and I quit whinging about the selectors

[1eyedog]

I hear what you are saying and I tend to agree, but surely Melbourne thought the same thing last week?

True I'm just nervous. Carlton on paper are not as bad as they are playing.

Carlton are in a bad place but judging them on their effort last week would be a mistake. We need to bring our best to win.

[LostDoggy]

We're a young team. We'll fluctuate. Dogs by 21, but could easily be Blues by the same.
First goal Wood.
BOG Crameri. I'm tipping Stewie to bring across some of that Carlton hatred only felt by Essendon people.

[Remi Moses]

Dogs by 18 pts ( we're not good enough to give them a touch up)
BOG Griffen
1st Goal Crameri

[Remi Moses]

Dan from Droop st Lonergan thinks we're a chance to win tomorrow.
Adam White co commentator says "Dan you'd mount a case for Forest Hill against the Dogs"
Funny stuff

[bornadog]

Dogs by18
first goal jones
bog: griffen

[Scorlibo]

Dogs by 15
First goal to Dahlhaus
BOG Griffen

[ratsmac]

Dogs by 27
First goal Higgins
BOG Libba

[Twodogs]

Dogs by 31
First goal Dalhaus
BOG Griffen

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Dogs by 3 pts
First goal Koby Stevens
BOG Crameri

[wimberga]

Dogs by 26
First goal Crameri
BOG Stevens

[The bulldog tragician]

Dan from Droop st Lonergan thinks we're a chance to win tomorrow.
Adam White co commentator says "Dan you'd mount a case for Forest Hill against the Dogs"
Funny stuff

Last week when we played an ordinary 1st qtr he just loved tweeting : Dogs being out coached by the man who should have been coach.

It's a shame that one of the very few commentators who is 'ours' is more negative than even our gloomiest fan.

Having said that, I'm very toey about this game. Malthouse-coached sides do well in these circumstances, he's one of the best 'backs-to-the-wall' coaches in the business. Miserable git.

Anyway, Dogs by 10 points after a slow start & trailing at 1/2 time.
BOG: Griff kicks on from last week.
First goal: Crameri

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We should win, which means we are actually a great chance to lose.
So against all my better judgement I'm going to tip Dogs by 19 points.
BOG: Libba
1st goal: Jones

[lemmon]

Dogs by 1 point, nowhere near confident this week. I thought last week's game was a far easier tip, Carlton are mature and not as bad as we all think.

BOG: Griff, was getting there last week
1st goal: Crameri

[F'scary]

Tip: Carton players want to get rid of their coach before he gets rid of them.

Western by 100 points
BOG: Griffen
First Goal: Jones

[LostDoggy]

I want to say we will flog them, but we won't. $2.30 under 39 good value for a multi.

Dogs by 13
crameri first goal
Jones BOG

[Daughter of the West]

Dogs by 17, but I am really, REALLY nervous about this game.
BOG: Libba
First goal: Crameri

[LostDoggy]

Stuff the negativity lets smash them.

Dogs by 136
First Goal STRINGER
BOG. STRINGER 11 Goal Game

[GVGjr]

I'm cautious about this game as the Blues have a lot to play for. They certainly have had their pride hurt and have added some key players. A close one, Dogs by 9 points

[AndrewP6]

Nathan Hrovat and Josh Prudden in the Social club. Hrovat said he's had a bleed into the calf muscle which has kept him out. Said it didn't really warrant a mention as an injury (even though it's kept him in rehab for 4 weeks!)

[GVGjr]

Judd will be the sub

[Go_Dogs]

Looking forward to this one.

Dogs by 33
First goal Jones
BOG Murphy

[GVGjr]

Roughead ahead of schedule, Morris will be close for selection next week.
Players sponsors interview with Roughead. Great guy

[bornadog]

Any changes unfortunately I am in Thredbo for Easter

[AndrewP6]

Just came across Moz, Clay Smith and Josh Prudden getting coffee downstairs, then Tom Campbell manning the lift! Moz in a moonboot.

[AndrewP6]

No, Gia the sub.

[bornadog]

Gia sub and no change to lineup

[bornadog]

Just came across Moz, Clay Smith and Josh Prudden getting coffee downstairs, then Tom Campbell manning the lift! Moz in a moonboot.
Thanks Andrew

[bulldogtragic]

Rubbish skills, especially inside 50. Stringer and Libba and Boyd and Dahl owe one. If Stringer can't take a basic mark like just dropped I'm going to cry.

Dahl just got one back for him. And Boyd too.

Hoping to see Marcus and Talia a few hundred more times.

[bulldogtragic]

And Williams owes 3.

[GVGjr]

We are lucky to be within 12 points at the moment. Simpson, Murphy and Henderson doing well

[Mantis]

Looks like Young & Williams had their 1 good game for the year last week... Not being helped by poor midfield accountability, but they look like scoring every time they go forward.

[DOG GOD]

As soon as I saw Waite as an "in" I thought oh no.

[GVGjr]

Henderson is really working Wallis over

[bulldogtragic]

45 points in a quarter.

Rubbish.

[Greystache]

Williams back in form.

Stringer does a very convincing impersonation of a goal post. Why the hell are we playing one short EVERY week!

[Greystache]

5 goals in a quarter to two shit key forwards. Disgraceful!

[DOG GOD]

It's free for all out there for blues. Playing on at all occasions, using Henderson and Waite beautifully thru the middle and fwd. killed around the stoppages, fumbling, no pressure on them coming from defense. Need to pick our game up otherwise we will be done by 40 at half time.

Why was stringer kept over hunter.?
I would've played Campbell so with Jamison out they would've had to play Henderson down back.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Stringer either isn't aware his recent efforts have not been up to scratch, which I find hard to believe or he just isn't listening. Either way he needs to go back to the reserves until he can show he is ready to play.
I don't think we have a winner anywhere on the field. We look very disorganized and unprepared for what Carlton have thrown at us.

[bulldogtragic]

Stuff me. The difference between our good and bad, is not even close. Not. Close.

[GVGjr]

We need a 4 or 5 goal quarter. Blues are playing very well

[Greystache]

Minson zero possessions for the quarter and getting a bath from a spud like Warnock.

[LostDoggy]

Stop the fight, Williams no chance, so so bad!

[GVGjr]

Great goal by Cooney

[GVGjr]

That would have been a handy mark to Jones

[bulldogtragic]

How does Wallis miss that target.?

Jong looks as likely as any goal kicker the last few weeks.

[GVGjr]

Jong, gets the goal

[bulldogtragic]

Stuff me. The difference between our good and bad, is not even close. Not. Close.

I'll say it again.

[LostDoggy]

How's Bontempelli looking????

[AndrewP6]

Minson very clean, with the bath he's getting from Warnock.

[GVGjr]

It's a shootout , 9 minutes and 4 goals, we need the next one

[GVGjr]

Macrae misses an easy one

[bulldogtragic]

Worst miss for a bulldogs player ever.

FFS, 5 metres out.

[AndrewP6]

Macrae with an absolutely dreadful miss. Just kick the bloody ball.

[GVGjr]

Damn, the momentum has shifted again

[Greystache]

Macrae copying Hunter. A couple of our young players need a serious kick up the arse.

[Greystache]

Stringer doesn't even bother trying to chase or pressure. Ayce Cordy would offer us more.

[bulldogtragic]

Macrae copying Hunter. A couple of our young players need a serious kick up the arse.

This. I believe the term is 'playing like millionaires'. Don't believe your own hype boys...

[Mantis]

Lazy by Cooney.. Has to track the runner.

[GVGjr]

12 minutes and 6 goals, 3 each
It goes without saying but we need the next one

[MrMahatma]

Worst defensive effort we've put on for while.

[Mantis]

How well is Daisy Thomas going? Getting paid $700k to tag a 21 year old... Flog!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

There are too many of our guys that only work hard on their terms. That is when they decide its to their own benefit to do so.

[bulldogtragic]

There are too many of our guys that only work hard on their terms. That is when they decide its to their own benefit to do so.

There's a thread worth starting on this.

[Greystache]

Don't think we've won a contest anywhere on the ground.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not sure how to take this.

Anger or sadness.

[Greystache]

Where can we can we hide Williams?

[MrMahatma]

Just no pressure across the ground. Awful.

[Mantis]

Our accountability is completely sub-standard.

[GVGjr]

The Blues can't do a lot wrong, really playing exciting football. In comparison it's a battle for us

[DOG GOD]

Game over I'm afraid.
We are getting killed.

[MrMahatma]

Williams is a total liability today.

Mids aren't accountable.

[Greystache]

I'm not sure how to take this.

Anger or sadness.

I'm filthy. We've got a lot of players that have heavily bought into their hype. This was always on the cards if we weren't switched on, and we haven't turned up at all.

[bulldogtragic]

Where can we can we hide Williams?

Draft watchers will talk about whether Tambling or Williams was the worst top 6 pick during that draft era at this rate. One game a year or bi-year is doesn't equal the hype he has.

[lemmon]

I'm filthy. We've got a lot of players that have heavily bought into their hype. This was always on the cards if we weren't switched on, and we haven't turned up at all.

Have gone completely away from our supposed mantra. Nothing hard and tough about this.

[Greystache]

*!*!*!*!ing embarrassing now!

[bulldogtragic]

I'm filthy. We've got a lot of players that have heavily bought into their hype. This was always on the cards if we weren't switched on, and we haven't turned up at all.

Now I'm doing filthy right now too, Higgins and Wallis with aus kick type skill errors.

You can't not drop some of these guys. I know we need games into them, but some of these traits are near criminal.

[Mantis]

Mitch Wallis's kicking is *!*!*!*!ing shithouse... It's like he started playing as a 16 year old.

[Greystache]

Draft watchers will talk about whether Tambling or Williams was the worst top 6 pick during that draft era at this rate. One game a year or bi-year is doesn't equal the hype he has.

He's not up to AFL standard as a defender. We've wasted so much time and money trying to make him one.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks Christ the first gamer is cracking in.

[Greystache]

Mitch Wallis's kicking is *!*!*!*!ing shithouse... It's like he started playing as a 16 year old.

He tries hard but he's a very very limited player.

[bulldogtragic]

He's not up to AFL standard as a defender. We've wasted so much time and money trying to make him one.

But he was a great athlete with a background in rugby. Why wouldn't we use pick 6 on him?

Seriously, he epitomises the difference between good and bad. Occasionally good, but today is boardering on the club demanding their money back off him.

[lemmon]

You have to mark that Crameri...

[bulldogtragic]

Dropping chest marks in 50 without pressure, by several players. Amateur hour.

[Greystache]

Minson 2 possessions at half time, not even a bunch of meaningless hit outs to compensate. He's giving nothing week in week out this season.

[GVGjr]

Draft watchers will talk about whether Tambling or Williams was the worst top 6 pick during that draft era at this rate. One game a year or bi-year is doesn't equal the hype he has.

I get that you are frustrated, but that's on the harsh side, he has had a wretched run with injuries

[LostDoggy]

Feel sorry for the Herald Sun analyst tomorrow who has to try come up with our best!

[GVGjr]

Minson 2 possessions at half time, not even a bunch of meaningless hit outs to compensate. He's giving nothing week in week out this season.
I mentioned this a couple of weeks back that his hit outs were disguising things. With few hit outs his real form becomes clearer

[wimberga]

For those asking, Bontempelli looks to be doing pretty well from mine.

Very clean in the clinches and just managed to get his hands up above the tackler and out to advantage regularly. besides that he has had a few nice F50 entries and tackles.

For everyone else who is already watching, far out Williams looks poor today and we are just making basic errors all over the places. Macraes dribble, Higgins kick in, Stringer/Crameri's dropped mark. The game isn't out of reach unless we continue to play like this.

first 10 minutes of the 3rd quarter is going to tell us everything we need to know about where our list is really at.

[lemmon]

Feel sorry for the Herald Sun analyst tomorrow who has to try come up with our best!

Dahlhaus then daylight

[Greystache]

I mentioned this a couple of weeks back that his hit outs were disguising things. With few hit outs his real form becomes clearer

I've be saying it for years the hit out stat is the most meaningless in football. Leigh Matthews it seems feels the same.

Hit outs alone are valueless. People get up in arms when I compare Minson to Mark Blake, but they are very similar. Outside of the ball ups he is invisible on the field. Even worse is at the moment he's not even getting hit outs.

[1eyedog]

Only half time. Let's get to within 2-3 goals at 3 quarter time.

[The Pie Man]

Amazed we're only 5 goals down - Jones & Dahl easy our best early. Strangely feel we're still in it but fear this backline will crumble. Minson needs to stand up and help block supply, I can't remember a worse 5 weeks from an AA ruckman

[lemmon]

I've be saying it for years the hit out stat is the most meaningless in football. Leigh Matthews it seems feels the same.

Hit outs alone are valueless. People get up in arms when I compare Minson to Mark Blake, but they are very similar. Outside of the ball ups he is invisible on the field. Even worse is at the moment he's not even getting hit outs.

Really noticeable how poor he has been around the contest. The only thing stopping the big fellas throwing their weight around and burrowing in is effort. I can cop him not taking marks around the ground, I can't cop his poor work in the stoppages

[bulldogtragic]

I get that you are frustrated, but that's on the harsh side, he has had a wretched run with injuries

Not too sure about being harsh. Tambling got a second home (at Adelaide) despite clearly putting in more bad games than good at Richmond. Over Tom's journey he too in terms of memorable games has played more bad games than good. Factoring in injuries to me is not fair on those who are critical of his time to date, most often in defence. I don't judge Tom's game when he's in the grandstand injured, I judge him on the games he's out on the park. I don't make excuses for him being 'rusty' or similar because of injury, he says he's right to perform and he is selected. If he needs to find form than it should be in the magoos.

Clearly he had some hype as an athletic mainly rugby player as a junior, as was Tambling. If I had taken it back a few years to Geelong with Tenace (pick 7 maybe) then I'd agree with the harsh call. The only difference when Tambling was cut was that his believers couldn't say give him another year as he's been perianelly injured. It's clear we can't have too many players whose gulf between good and bad is as big as his. I can't keep giving him the out of injuries, because when he does play we get games like this from him which have nothing to do with injuries. He's not playing well because today because he's either out of position, ball watching, making skill errors and generally not doing what I'd expect Redpath to be doing in the AFL.

[The Pie Man]

Oh and by backline I largely mean Tom Williams. Maybe forward or more likely not at all (have been a fan too sadly)

[Mantis]

He tries hard but he's a very very limited player.

Yep.. Unless he improves dramatically I don't think he will be someone who takes us forward.

[Greystache]

Murphy is a bit too good for Wallis. I wonder if we'll look at moving Picken onto him.

[bulldogtragic]

But to even my critical posts, I loved Marcus last year and even more so today. In a few years he will be scary good IMO.

[GVGjr]

Murphy is a bit too good for Wallis. I wonder if we'll look at moving Picken onto him.
Needs to be made, I'd swap Gia for Wallis

[Greystache]

Yep.. Unless he improves dramatically I don't think he will be someone who takes us forward.

Agree. I can see a lot of players quickly going past him as the list matures.

[Greystache]

Picken's disposal is really hurting us. He didn't even look when kicking the ball over the top of Jones.

[bulldogtragic]

Minson's worst ever game??

[Greystache]

Need to get the next 3

[Mantis]

We just refuse to find a man on the counter.

[Greystache]

Needs to be made, I'd swap Gia for Wallis

Just happened.

[bulldogtragic]

I wish Koby had Bonts ability to absorb the pressure and hits. So happy with Marcus right now.

[Greystache]

If we can get the next 2 we're in this.

[GVGjr]

Bonts has been a positive

[GVGjr]

We need the next goal

[Greystache]

*!*!*!*!ing Boyd leave your ego at the door. Why have 3 midfielders go up for a marking contest and leave Murphy down on his own. Be ACCOUNTABLE! !

[Mantis]

Our kick out strategy from a behind is pathetic.. Play on & bomb to a pack - Repeat!

[bulldogtragic]

Bonts has been a positive

Big. If Kennedy & Watson are the prototype, Bonts is the future.

[Greystache]

Bonts has been a positive

He's been given the ball under enormous pressure by team mates several times and hasn't panicked.

[bulldogtragic]

Juddy and sub gone!

[1eyedog]

Another Caflton goal from a free kick in the back half!!!

[Mantis]

Had to be a free to Stringer.. Had his legs taken out.

[lemmon]

25 points, any chance?

[Greystache]

2 on 1 in the goal Square and we can't make it work. Cooney should have marked it.

[DOG GOD]

FFS, put some gloves on stringer and crameri :mad:

[GVGjr]

Missed opportunities in the 3rd quarter. Should be only about 18 down

[bulldogtragic]

So many frees not paid.
So many opportunities passed.

How are we this close.

Bontempelli is the man for me, he is vindicating every call others including me made for him. I'm hoping this quarter he keeps working, because it could be a moment in time. He looks a million bucks.

[bulldogtragic]

25 points, any chance?

Yep. Bontempelli to do it.

No pressure for the first gamer! :)

[Greystache]

25 points, any chance?

Needed Cooney to hold that mark and kick the goal on the siren.

Carlton will be down a rotation by the looks of it however.

[Sedat]

Stringer much much better that qtr. Mind you he's coming from an extremely low base.

Bonts very good in the clinches. Showed great composure on a few occasions under some real heat.

[ReLoad]

Crameri has had to run a billion miles today, he is cooked.

There has been some shocking non decisions today, stringer in particular when the Carlton guy jumped in front of his legs.

We are in this, ironically if we win it would make us the least sh*t of the two sh*t teams.

[LostDoggy]

Sorry GVGr but I'm going for a libel suit.

HOW MUCH WERE THE *%###^** UMPiRES PAID BY KERNAHAN THIS GAME???

The VISY deal has stretched beyond Judd it seems.

Massively frustrated I'm on the wrong wing or umpire 29 is rightly to scared to come over here..

}#}}%%^++#}%*^#%

[bulldogtragic]

As average as we've been, how are we in it. They are very average.

Stewwwwwwy.

[Greystache]

What's the good of Cooney playing out of the goal Square if he's not going to lead? Has he decided he's a contested marking power house?

[GVGjr]

What a goal by Crameri, any doubts on him should be minimised now

[bulldogtragic]

Boy Marcus is hard at it, I never been as excited by 13 touches as much as this.

When he adds 10kg to his frame he will be lethal, he just doesn't flinch.

[GVGjr]

A couple of reports await?

[Greystache]

All over. What was Higgins doing? Shit house

[bulldogtragic]

A couple of reports await?

Koby reported, but looks ok.
Jones might be in trouble.

Weird game, really, really weird.

[GVGjr]

Going to be hard now

[Greystache]

Picken's kicking is beyond atrocious.

[bulldogtragic]

Gia misses that.... Crameri's easiest shot misses.

Weird game.

[Mantis]

I like winning, especially against these slime bags, but we don't deserve to win this... Will cover up the cracks.

[Sedat]

Some seriously dumb football in the last, both up forward and down back. Lack of composure kills us and makes us work twice as hard as the opposition

[bulldogtragic]

I like winning, especially against these slime bags, but we don't deserve to win this... Will cover up the cracks.

Perfect assessment.

[GVGjr]

A few players will be under the spotlight at the selection table this week. Based on the game by Footscray today there isn't a lot of players putting their hand up

[Greystache]

Why is Cooney out there? He refuses to move out of the goal Square. He will not lead!

[FrediKanoute]

Key moments in the game we were found wanting. The Macrae open goal miss in the 2nd which would have made it 4 in a row and an all tied up game. The 1.4 kicked in the early part of the 4th quarter when the game was there to be won. The margin flatters us IMO, but we did hang in there. Disappointing.

[bulldogtragic]

Why is Cooney out there? He refuses to move out of the goal Square. He will not lead!

Ayce told him that's what he does.

[azabob]

Williams back in form.

Stringer does a very convincing impersonation of a goal post. Why the hell are we playing one short EVERY week!

I can only think structure. Dickson surely to come in for him.

[GVGjr]

I can only think structure. Dickson surely to come in for him.
The most likely inclusion in the forward line

[jeemak]

Said this in the preview thread, that if we didn't come to play we'd get it handed to us and so it went in the first half.

It's almost as if our players think that they will become a competitive side as a right of passage, not from putting in consistent effort from the first bounce of each game.

How we didn't put a team effort in to ensuring Murphy and Gibbs - two of their only prime movers - started off the game under a load of pressure and physical attack is beyond me.

Stringer needs to go back to Footscray and commit to getting the basics right. He needs to be told that even number 5 draft picks need to do that first and foremost if they are to forge a successful career. Thought he was a touch better as the game went on.

I need to calm down before I post anything more, aside from saying Gia (I'm normally a staunch defender) really let himself down today. Great work to come on and impact the scoreboard, but his handling and execution was terrible today and we needed him to have a more positive impact with his opportunities.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

That was pathetic and one of the most disappointing losses I've seen for a while.

We gave them so much time and space when we knew Carlton were simply going to take the game on from the get go after the week they've had and Malthouse's comments. We played soft, unaccountable football and got punished. We worked our way back into the game, then dropped our bundle and stopped working in the second quarter again. The midfield was atrocious.

Butchered our chances in the last and lacked both skill and composure. Far too many handballs to stationary targets with opponents charging them down. In short: dumb football by us.

I still think McCartney and the MC have little nous when it comes to tactics. Jong and Wallis (along with Picken/Boyd) can't play in the same side. They're too similar. Jong/Wallis particularly, neither can win the ball, neither can use it when they get it, neither can play anything else other than as midfield taggers. The decision to leave Young and Williams on Henderson and Waite was ridiculous - why didn't Talia go to one of them? Casboult is a spud and wasn't impacting the game anyway, surely Talia could have been an option on Henderson. He did go to him at one point but it was only for about 5 minutes.

I thought our senior players (Cooney, Minson, Libba, Gia) were really, really poor too.

[always right]

You don't win games when none of your players are in the best six on the ground. We had chances to make the blues very nervous in the last but butchered our chances.

[Hotdog60]

You don't win games when none of your players are in the best six on the ground. We had chances to make the blues very nervous in the last but butchered our chances.

Very disappointed in the last, They had no bench but because we burnt all our tickets chasing blue jumpers all day we couldn't run over them.

[The Underdog]

I wasn't able to make it to or watch the game.
Some days life gives you situations that turn out to be blessings in disguise.

[Twodogs]

I'm still to hacked off to say anything constructive. Spilling simple chest marks when you're all alone in the forward line will come up when I'm more composed.


Walker said through the week that they were training like a top 4 side. We gave them a training drill.

[Eastdog]

Come home from the game. Very disappointing performance tonight. One of our worst losses so far this year. We are an average side at best. Really need Morris back down in that defence. Williams was very poor especially in that first quarter which I feel lost us the game. Our skill level is one of the worst in the comp. The Crows back at home next week which will be tough.

[Sedat]

That was pathetic and one of the most disappointing losses I've seen for a while.

We gave them so much time and space when we knew Carlton were simply going to take the game on from the get go after the week they've had and Malthouse's comments. We played soft, unaccountable football and got punished. We worked our way back into the game, then dropped our bundle and stopped working in the second quarter again. The midfield was atrocious.

Butchered our chances in the last and lacked both skill and composure. Far too many handballs to stationary targets with opponents charging them down. In short: dumb football by us.

I still think McCartney and the MC have little nous when it comes to tactics. Jong and Wallis (along with Picken/Boyd) can't play in the same side. They're too similar. Jong/Wallis particularly, neither can win the ball, neither can use it when they get it, neither can play anything else other than as midfield taggers. The decision to leave Young and Williams on Henderson and Waite was ridiculous - why didn't Talia go to one of them? Casboult is a spud and wasn't impacting the game anyway, surely Talia could have been an option on Henderson. He did go to him at one point but it was only for about 5 minutes.

I thought our senior players (Cooney, Minson, Libba, Gia) were really, really poor too.
Excellent summation TBB. The senior core outside of Griff were very poor, both offensively and defensively. Also agree that the MC had a poor night. Aside from the lack of moves on Waite and Henderson, we were also unable to free up Bob to be a more offensive weapon and he was stuck in the last line far too often.

In the first half Carlton kicked an astonishing 13.7 from something like only 26 inside 50's. Unbelievably poor on a number of levels. First, our one-on-one defending down back was diabolical. Also our defensive pressure in the middle was non-existent. ANd to top.it off, Warnock gave Minson a bath and got first use to Carlton's mids with monotonous regularity. Shamefully inept half of football.

[G-Mo77]

Disappointing. First quarter they got the lead and we were chasing tail the rest of the way. I don't feel we were that bad, thought we were the better team in the second half but every surge we had was shot down with a basic skill error or interference from those little yellow pests.

Missed Morris badly and was the reason I tipped against us this week.

[Eastdog]

Disappointing. First quarter they got the lead and we were chasing tail the rest of the way. I don't feel we were that bad, thought we were the better team in the second half but every surge we had was shot down with a basic skill error or interference from those little yellow pests.

Missed Morris badly and was the reason I tipped against us this week.

Agree. They also killed us for pace today.

[AndrewP6]

Just got home, replay on. Have I got enough drinks in the fridge to be able to sit through it?

[soupman]

So disappointed. They are shit and we just managed to be shitter.

Can't believe how we just let it become a shootout straight up. Carlton are a team that is decent when it thinks it is, and we allowed that early. We should have made it a slog in that first quarter and just forced them to grind out every goal. Should have been accountable, tough and rough. Make them doubt that they could do it and make sure that when they did they earnt it. Instead we let them run around us and their belief and confidence was sky high 10 minutes in.

Really missed Morris down back. Needed a key defender that could win his position, Young and Williams both got done that first quarter and Talia would've too if Casboult was remotely talented and held his marks. I have always liked Williams ever since his run down the wing of the MCG on debut, but the time has come to say that he is now purely backup, and if Talia and Roberts are fit, they get priority at the selection table. Williams continues to be outbodied and pushed out of marking contests incredibly easily for a man of his size, and very rarely manages to at least halve the contest. For mine he has the rest of the year to show he can offer something up forward, otherwise I think he is done.

Our midfield got done. Minson has been so disappointing this season. Last season it wasn't just his hitouts, it was his domination of the ballups for the entire game that was his strength. He owned that 5m space around the ball up and was awesome to watch. Tonight he was beaten, and beaten easily by bloody Robbie Warnock. And we thought being beaten by Giles was bad. Griffen as a positive started to show old Griffen type behaviors, trying to drag us back into the game, although Carlton did as well as anyone in managing to avoid being made to look silly when Griffen and Macrae tried to put their moves on, so much so that I'm convinced that some of Macrae's crap handballs in the last quarter were because he no longer believed he was going to get round the Carlton player if he tried. Bontempelli was very encouraging, I thought Boyd was decent in the first half at least, but Libba and Wallis both had shockers.

Crameri was dangerous up forward, but he is a very average mark. If he can just clean up some of his fumbles it means he breaks away into space instead of having to put on the afterburners to regain the space he bought by working his arse of to receive in the first place. That last quarter missed shot was disappointing, but prior to that he had nailed all the big goals this season, something Essendon fans were all too happy to tell us he sucked at. Stringer was marginally better today, he actually played in front and managed through handballing to set up some goals/should be goals. I'm still not convinced he is doing anywhere near enough to justify his spot though, and not sure why he is being given a different rating sheet to guys like Hunter. I was actually fairly pleased with Jones today. I don't think he kicked a goal but he looks intense and as if he wants to hurt people, which isn't the worst thing to have in a contested marking key forward.

As for the umpiring it was shithouse, and yet the worst call of the night was calling play on after Jong got ran down. Unless that somehow landed on Jong's foot it was absolute textbook holding the ball and I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the "rules of the game" video next year as a demo to what holding the ball is.

That was very disappointing: we continued our run of woeful first quarters, we let the game develop into a shootout, something which doesn't suit us at all, and despite to our credit staying in the game until the last 5 minutes, we failed to take the chances we earnt and as has happened all season, everytime we make a poor error we get punished for it.

[azabob]

Just got home, replay on. Have I got enough drinks in the fridge to be able to sit through it?

Put some music on instead and have a couple of quiet ones!

[G-Mo77]

Just got home, replay on. Have I got enough drinks in the fridge to be able to sit through it?

Skip the first, it's disgusting.

[boydogs]

Minson's worst ever game??

48 hitouts. Not his best game but far from his worst. Hard to dominate every week when you're by yourself for 90% of games

[jeemak]

Good post Soupaman.

Don't think I really have to post much more than what you have, even though I've calmed down a little since my most recent.

[F'scary]

Went to the game. Was shocked by the lack of pressure on them. They got 2 coast-to-coasts and at least two near coast-to-coasts from deep in their defence. Our players continuously played from behind and stood there and dropped their heads every time Carton took a mark on a lead (which they did all game) allowing the Blues to play on in a damaging way at will.

Our stoppage work was terrible. I would hate to see the clearance count.

I am not going to blame Young & Williams that much because the damage was being done up the field.

And we did not shepherd enough for our players when we had the ball. We were given a lesson in this skill today.

We have a long way to go.

[jeemak]

Went to the game. Was shocked by the lack of pressure on them. They got 2 coast-to-coasts and at least two near coast-to-coasts from deep in their defence. Our players continuously played from behind and stood there and dropped their heads every time Carton took a mark on a lead (which they did all game) allowing the Blues to play on in a damaging way at will.

Our stoppage work was terrible. I would hate to see the clearance count.

I am not going to blame Young & Williams that much because the damage was being done up the field.

We have a long way to go.

You need your best defenders (or competition first class defenders) to be able to defend what they had to defend today. Sadly Young and Williams aren't quite there meaning they were on a hiding to nothing even though they had lapses in their own positioning and body work.

The other point where you are spot on is pointing out our poor work at the stoppages. It seems that every stoppage where we got first touch - which will happen enough in a game with our mids - we were under pressure, though a lot of the time when they won it they had players in space on goal side of their opponents which is just unforgivable. Once every so often is OK, but the amount it happened today was well over the top.

[F'scary]

48 hitouts. Not his best game but far from his worst. Hard to dominate every week when you're by yourself for 90% of games

No, it was up there with the worst of them but I take your point on the lack of options or support. We have a complete lack of depth in the ruck division. This is what happens when you persist with Cordy - he's got to go at the end of the season.

[F'scary]

You need your best defenders (or competition first class defenders) to be able to defend what they had to defend today. Sadly Young and Williams aren't quite there meaning they were on a hiding to nothing even though they had lapses in their own positioning and body work.

The other point where you are spot on is pointing out our poor work at the stoppages. It seems that every stoppage where we got first touch - which will happen enough in a game with our mids - we were under pressure, though a lot of the time when they won it they had players in space on goal side of their opponents which is just unforgivable. Once every so often is OK, but the amount it happened today was well over the top.

You are absolutely correct. Roughead and Morris would have made a difference even with the lack of pressure on their ball carriers upfield.

[LostDoggy]

Well, glad I didn't multi-quote this one. Jesus Christ, this place gets murky after a loss. Even Cordy copped it and he wasn't even there.

Yes, Minson didn't perform well. He's rucking 98% of the bloody game on his own. Every week. He's down on confidence. Hope he doesn't read WOOF.

Young tried hard all day, as did Williams, but without Morris and Roughead they were woefully matched and just couldn't get it done. Hardly justifies calls for delisting.

Our pressure and intent looked a fair way down on two weeks ago. Changes in training load/fitness? Perhaps an accumulative effect of the short breaks, or the sandpit we played on last week? I won't buy that the players weren't mentally switched on, every man and his dog knew Carlton were going to come out in the fashion they did.

Stringer struggled early but worked his way into the game and wasn't that bad. Look, I know I have a man-crush that'd rival the Bulldogtragician-Grant Love Affair, but this is where the kid is learning his craft and it's f$&@%#g vital he does so. If only Jones had another 20 in him, we'd be laughing. When he comes on a bit he's going to kill blokes.

There were plenty of mistakes made on both sides. That happens in a shoot out. Did the coaching group mandate the play or did we simply find ourselves dictated to! I haven't watched the post match yet so it's hard to tell.

Bonts was fantastic, a great debut. Total positive.

I'm filthy we lost, but far more measured in my long term view. As I said before the game in my predictions, we're a young side still and the roller coaster is inevitable.

[Hotdog60]

Well, glad I didn't multi-quote this one. Jesus Christ, this place gets murky after a loss. Even Cordy copped it and he wasn't even there.

Yes, Minson didn't perform well. He's rucking 98% of the bloody game on his own. Every week. He's down on confidence. Hope he doesn't read WOOF.

Young tried hard all day, as did Williams, but without Morris and Roughead they were woefully matched and just couldn't get it done. Hardly justifies calls for delisting.

Our pressure and intent looked a fair way down on two weeks ago. Changes in training load/fitness? Perhaps an accumulative effect of the short breaks, or the sandpit we played on last week? I won't buy that the players weren't mentally switched on, every man and his dog knew Carlton were going to come out in the fashion they did.

Stringer struggled early but worked his way into the game and wasn't that bad. Look, I know I have a man-crush that'd rival the Bulldogtragician-Grant Love Affair, but this is where the kid is learning his craft and it's f$&@%#g vital he does so. If only Jones had another 20 in him, we'd be laughing. When he comes on a bit he's going to kill blokes.

There were plenty of mistakes made on both sides. That happens in a shoot out. Did the coaching group mandate the play or did we simply find ourselves dictated to! I haven't watched the post match yet so it's hard to tell.

Bonts was fantastic, a great debut. Total positive.

I'm filthy we lost, but far more measured in my long term view. As I said before the game in my predictions, we're a young side still and the roller coaster is inevitable.

Macca said in the presser that they several moves but Carlton just played better and we couldn't shift the game back to our terms.
On a positive note this is my 2000 post.:cool:

[The Underdog]

No, it was up there with the worst of them but I take your point on the lack of options or support. We have a complete lack of depth in the ruck division. This is what happens when you persist with Cordy - he's got to go at the end of the season.

I thought he was too busy causing trouble in the Ukraine and death and destruction in Syria to be responsible for Minson's form in a poor loss. Seriously I see the point you are trying to make but you may as well blame Campbell, who is currently our next best ruck option for not being a better forward option, Roberts for not developing quickly enough or the sub rule and interchange cap for destroying the 2nd ruckman.

[always right]

Well, glad I didn't multi-quote this one. Jesus Christ, this place gets murky after a loss. Even Cordy copped it and he wasn't even there.

Yes, Minson didn't perform well. He's rucking 98% of the bloody game on his own. Every week. He's down on confidence. Hope he doesn't read WOOF.

Young tried hard all day, as did Williams, but without Morris and Roughead they were woefully matched and just couldn't get it done. Hardly justifies calls for delisting.

Our pressure and intent looked a fair way down on two weeks ago. Changes in training load/fitness? Perhaps an accumulative effect of the short breaks, or the sandpit we played on last week? I won't buy that the players weren't mentally switched on, every man and his dog knew Carlton were going to come out in the fashion they did.

Stringer struggled early but worked his way into the game and wasn't that bad. Look, I know I have a man-crush that'd rival the Bulldogtragician-Grant Love Affair, but this is where the kid is learning his craft and it's f$&@%#g vital he does so. If only Jones had another 20 in him, we'd be laughing. When he comes on a bit he's going to kill blokes.

There were plenty of mistakes made on both sides. That happens in a shoot out. Did the coaching group mandate the play or did we simply find ourselves dictated to! I haven't watched the post match yet so it's hard to tell.

Bonts was fantastic, a great debut. Total positive.

I'm filthy we lost, but far more measured in my long term view. As I said before the game in my predictions, we're a young side still and the roller coaster is inevitable.
Fair enough......but I don't understand your Jones comment. 20 what?

[LostDoggy]

Fair enough......but I don't understand your Jones comment. 20 what?

Sorry, 20 games.

[GVGjr]

On a positive note this is my 2000 post.:cool:

Well done...and thanks

[Eastdog]

On a positive note this is my 2000 post.:cool:

Good on you HD60.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

So disappointed. They are shit and we just managed to be shitter.

Can't believe how we just let it become a shootout straight up. Carlton are a team that is decent when it thinks it is, and we allowed that early. We should have made it a slog in that first quarter and just forced them to grind out every goal. Should have been accountable, tough and rough. Make them doubt that they could do it and make sure that when they did they earnt it. Instead we let them run around us and their belief and confidence was sky high 10 minutes in.

Really missed Morris down back. Needed a key defender that could win his position, Young and Williams both got done that first quarter and Talia would've too if Casboult was remotely talented and held his marks. I have always liked Williams ever since his run down the wing of the MCG on debut, but the time has come to say that he is now purely backup, and if Talia and Roberts are fit, they get priority at the selection table. Williams continues to be outbodied and pushed out of marking contests incredibly easily for a man of his size, and very rarely manages to at least halve the contest. For mine he has the rest of the year to show he can offer something up forward, otherwise I think he is done.

Our midfield got done. Minson has been so disappointing this season. Last season it wasn't just his hitouts, it was his domination of the ballups for the entire game that was his strength. He owned that 5m space around the ball up and was awesome to watch. Tonight he was beaten, and beaten easily by bloody Robbie Warnock. And we thought being beaten by Giles was bad. Griffen as a positive started to show old Griffen type behaviors, trying to drag us back into the game, although Carlton did as well as anyone in managing to avoid being made to look silly when Griffen and Macrae tried to put their moves on, so much so that I'm convinced that some of Macrae's crap handballs in the last quarter were because he no longer believed he was going to get round the Carlton player if he tried. Bontempelli was very encouraging, I thought Boyd was decent in the first half at least, but Libba and Wallis both had shockers.

Crameri was dangerous up forward, but he is a very average mark. If he can just clean up some of his fumbles it means he breaks away into space instead of having to put on the afterburners to regain the space he bought by working his arse of to receive in the first place. That last quarter missed shot was disappointing, but prior to that he had nailed all the big goals this season, something Essendon fans were all too happy to tell us he sucked at. Stringer was marginally better today, he actually played in front and managed through handballing to set up some goals/should be goals. I'm still not convinced he is doing anywhere near enough to justify his spot though, and not sure why he is being given a different rating sheet to guys like Hunter. I was actually fairly pleased with Jones today. I don't think he kicked a goal but he looks intense and as if he wants to hurt people, which isn't the worst thing to have in a contested marking key forward.

As for the umpiring it was shithouse, and yet the worst call of the night was calling play on after Jong got ran down. Unless that somehow landed on Jong's foot it was absolute textbook holding the ball and I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the "rules of the game" video next year as a demo to what holding the ball is.

That was very disappointing: we continued our run of woeful first quarters, we let the game develop into a shootout, something which doesn't suit us at all, and despite to our credit staying in the game until the last 5 minutes, we failed to take the chances we earnt and as has happened all season, everytime we make a poor error we get punished for it.

The game was probably lost in the first quarter when Warnock had 11 hitouts to Will's nil. We are the only club in the AFL that persists with one ruckman. Geelong in fact play three as does Hawthorn if you count Roughead. Surely that says something is wrong.
Campbell does give you a strong target up forward and is a competent ruckman. You can not lose your two tall defenders in Roughead and Morris and expect second string replacements in Williams and Young to fill the gap. We need to look past Williams. I agree that going forward that Talia and Roberts are better options and I wouldn't discount Austin as well. We were still in the game late but missed goals from Boyd Crameri and Macrae proved too costly. This was in spite of us struggling all day. I thought Malthouse by playing tags on Liberatore and Murphy outsmarted us. Our disposal simply isn't good enough to match it with the better sides and there is urgent work required at training to bring it up to a desirable standard.