Three Things I've Learned - Round 6 Edition

[Eastdog]

Once the Round 6 match against Adelaide is completed, let us know the three things you learned after watching the match.

Be constructive but be honest.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[whythelongface]

1/ We still can't play 4 qtr football. Within a game we can look like one of the top teams yet we can also look like the worst team in the league within that same game;

2/ Jones can play the game but when he is poor he is really really poor;

3/ Dickson is a good player when he is on song just lacks consistency.

[bulldogtragic]

1. Jones really kills me, really just kills me because every now and then we all think he's going to the next level, and then he gives us games like today.

2. I don't think the coaching team and MC understand using the sub.

3. I hate that we were in with North, Carlton & Adelaide and pissed away them all. There's no sugar coating this, we lost it today, they didn't win it.

[Bulldog4life]

Stringer is not and doesn't even look like a backline player

Jones's inconsistency should be rewarded with a lengthy spell in the magoos till he can rectify this situation.

We can't seem to play with a hard edge for a whole game which we showed in the first half of the first quarter.

[GVGjr]

I marked Easton Wood too harshly, he has taken a step forward this year

Our leaders didn't stand up enough today ( Griffen, Boyd and Gia)

The players sponors area has become a creche

[LostDoggy]

Three things

1 - Stringer and Jones should not play back, they made Pods look a champion rather than what he is.... an ok 3rd tall on his last legs

2 - Bmac is stubborn, and simply will not see we need to pick a structure ie a tall back, yes even Austin

3 - That we lack composure in tight situations and this stems from Boyd down...oh wait, I already knew that...

[GVGjr]

I'm not sure we can elevate Austin, I think Roughead is ahead of schedule

[Hotdog60]

1: We really miss Morris
2: We need Roughead
3: What the hell are we going to do when Moz retires

[F'scary]

1. Jones will play in the reserves next week.
2. Stringer won't play as a backman again.
3. We won't win more games than we did last year.

[LostDoggy]

Our options appear limited: tom williams - yuck, Fletcher Roberts/Redpath - unproven could be worse than Williams.......maybe I am harsh on selection for Macca....maybe we need to look at his list management that has no tall backs in reserve...

[lemmon]

1. Jones and Stringer aren't a backman's bootlaces
2. Dahl has some heart, turned it around completely today
3. Macca should do a single press conference and just replay it, never seems to say much different

[bornadog]

1. You can't win a match kicking 1.4 in two quarters.

2. You can't win a match with the wrong backline structure

3. You can't win a match by bombing the ball into the forward line and expecting miracles.

[SlimPickens]

1. Our " leaders" are not doing enough, they get recognition when we play well but not nearly enough flack after performances like today. Pointing the finger square at Gia, Griffen, Minson, Cooney and to a lesser extent Boyd and Murph.

2. Effort must be the number fundamental for getting a game. I don't care if your confidence is shot, have a *!*!*!*!en crack!

3. Minson is a shadow of the footballer he was last year.

[bornadog]

3. Minson is a shadow of the footballer he was last year.

He played a big last quarter to get us back in it, but yes not his best game.

[LostDoggy]

1. Now I know why Gia should be sub each week
2. Another tall defender would have been helpful today, Stringer vs Podsiadily was cringeworthy
3. Minson has gone backwards from last year

[Remi Moses]

Our options appear limited: tom williams - yuck, Fletcher Roberts/Redpath - unproven could be worse than Williams.......maybe I am harsh on selection for Macca....maybe we need to look at his list management that has no tall backs in reserve...
They should be taking the chance with Roberts.
Reward good form at the lower level.

[LostDoggy]

JJ kicked 5 on the weekend in the 2s...he shouldnt be far from a call up

[Greystache]

1. Dickson is our most dangerous forward and should never have missed the last 4 games.

2. Despite the outrage from some supporters that Talia didn't play the first 3 games he is anything but our defensive saviour.

3. AFL football is a lot harder than Jake Stringer was expecting.

[Remi Moses]

1. Please no more Jones ( talk about lazy and disinterested)
2. Just have to bring that same effort for the first 20 minutes for a longer period.
3. To many plodders

[soupman]

JJ kicked 5 on the weekend in the 2s...he shouldnt be far from a call up

He should be. A 5 goal performance In a 150 point win doesn't compensate for multiple nearly unsighted games at both AFL and VFL level.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. MC can't get it right.
2. Low crowd numbers and general frustration has to be a huge concern for the club after only 6 weeks.
3. Wood has been outstanding this year so far - enjoyed watching him play.

[China Dog]

1. Jones, Stringer, Young and Jong are just not good enough
2. Minson doesn't take Marks around the ground, he needs to take a look at what Jenkins did for the Crows
3. Libba and Griffen are both struggling to break tags and are well below last year's standards

[bornadog]

2. Minson doesn't take Marks around the ground, he needs to take a look at what Jenkins did for the Crows

Jenkins played CHF, Jacobs is their ruckman and he took 1 mark to Wills 3

[always right]

1. Jones, Stringer, Young and Jong are just not good enough
2. Minson doesn't take Marks around the ground, he needs to take a look at what Jenkins did for the Crows
3. Libba and Griffen are both struggling to break tags and are well below last year's standards

Jones and Young have been in the system long enough to form an opinion about but Stringer and Jong....really?
Try comparing Minson to the opposition ruckman.

[Mantis]

Low crowd numbers and general frustration has to be a huge concern for the club after only 6 weeks.


For any number of reasons today was my first game I have attended this year.. On watching that I can't see me going back anytime soon.. It was painful... And going by the level of dis-interest around me, I'm not alone.

[Ghost Dog]

)

The players sponors area has become a creche

I don't quite understand this part. Can you tell me a bit more?

[bornadog]

For any number of reasons today was my first game I have attended this year.. On watching that I can't see me going back anytime soon.. It was painful... And going by the level of dis-interest around me, I'm not alone.

Front runner :D

[chef]

Jones is not the answer, he's never going to be more than a Bartlett standard forward.

The difference between our good and our bad is killing us, once this closes we're going to be a decent side.

Low crowd numbers are a real worry.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Jones is not the answer, he's never going to be more than a Bartlett standard forward.

The difference between our good and our bad is killing us, once this closes we're going to be a decent side.

Low crowd numbers are a real worry.

Agree on both accounts.

I think a large majority are fed up at the severe lack of success and growth. Is it impatience? Honestly, I don't think it is. This club provides constant disappointment, which is proving to be too much to take.

[GVGjr]

I don't quite understand this part. Can you tell me a bit more?

It's probably a no win to make this comment but at the quarter/half time breaks if you come in for a snack or a drink the number of kids running around, screaming, crying, kicking balls around has become a real distraction. Supervision is low.

I know it's very hard to take kids to the game and keep them occupied for 120 minutes plus but it doesn't make for a pleasant experience to sit anywhere near them.

[PedroArvy]

1. We are better than last year, this game and the Carlton clash were ours to loose. Lack of composure cost us. Our forward line is more dangerous than last year.

2. But we lack that little bit of depth, with Roughhead and Morris out we were exposed down back.

3. Poor 'ol Jones. Doesn't have the speed to chase, takes a lot of leaps for few marks, today he made basic errors that cost us match winning goals for Adelaide. He needs a solid stint in the 2's. I'd like to say he should be booted but who would replace him?

[Eastdog]

1. We are not a 4 quarter team

2. Campbell was great up forward in that first quarter and will be important going forward with our forward structure. In saying that we need to have better delivery from the midfield to the forwards.

3. Jones - how much more can we take just wasn't good today

[F'scary]

It's probably a no win to make this comment but at the quarter/half time breaks if you come in for a snack or a drink the number of kids running around, screaming, crying, kicking balls around has become a real distraction. Supervision is low.

I know it's very hard to take kids to the game and keep them occupied for 120 minutes plus but it doesn't make for a pleasant experience to sit anywhere near them.

Grumpy old thing. Bet you wouldn't notice if we were winning.

[Pickenitup]

1.We are two years away from playing Finals.
2.I love Gia but he is cooked.
3.We lack a Geniue Match Winner,

[Eastdog]

1. MC can't get it right.
2. Low crowd numbers and general frustration has to be a huge concern for the club after only 6 weeks.
3. Wood has been outstanding this year so far - enjoyed watching him play.

Point 2. Even though we didn't get a big crowd today we certainly make a lot of noise. The last few home games at Etihad the crowd numbers have been good over 25,000.

[soupman]

I wonder how many supporters rocked up for the 4:40 twilight spot we have made our own?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Our options appear limited: tom williams - yuck, Fletcher Roberts/Redpath - unproven could be worse than Williams.......maybe I am harsh on selection for Macca....maybe we need to look at his list management that has no tall backs in reserve...

Why would you drop Williams and then not play Roberts or Austin as your next best reserve tall defenders? Instead the MC opt for Stringer who obviously doesn't know how to play defence.
Why would you play Jong who struggles at best against the Crows best player in Dangerfield?
Why would you sub Campbell who at least created a contest when Jones couldn't get near the contest?
I worry about our MC. The week before against Carlton there wasn't any attempt to break the tags on both Murphy and Liberatore. At quarter time in that same match Warnock had 11 hitouts to Will's nil with our back up ruckman being Jones who hasn't a clue about ruck work . That is why we need to continue to play Campbell with far more ruck support than he is getting at the moment.

[LostDoggy]

1. Poor crowd considering we have 28k plus members and we can only get 17k to a game including crows fans.
2. Membership at only 28k is pathetic. Where are the other 7k so called supporters. I am over it regarding our lack of membership. Fair enough if you cannot afford it but it will crap me of when these supporters come back when we are a better team.
3. I so want Jones to succeed but he has 2-3 good weeks taking steps forward then takes 20 back like today.

[MrMahatma]

1. You can't win a match kicking 1.4 in two quarters.

2. You can't win a match with the wrong backline structure

3. You can't win a match by bombing the ball into the forward line and expecting miracles.

We probably could have if Boyd kicked that running shot and the 2 posters in the last went through.

For as bad as we were for much of the game, a bit more composure for some real gimme goals and we'd have won.

[LostDoggy]

Why would you drop Williams and then not play Roberts or Austin as your next best reserve tall defenders? Instead the MC opt for Stringer who obviously doesn't know how to play defence.
Why would you play Jong who struggles at best against the Crows best player in Dangerfield?
Why would you sub Campbell who at least created a contest when Jones couldn't get near the contest?
I worry about our MC. The week before against Carlton there wasn't any attempt to break the tags on both Murphy and Liberatore. At quarter time in that same match Warnock had 11 hitouts to Will's nil with our back up ruckman being Jones who hasn't a clue about ruck work . That is why we need to continue to play Campbell with far more ruck support than he is getting at the moment.

I actually thought Jong did a reasonable job on Dangerfield today. Yes he got quite a few possessions but he kicked no goals and rarely did he do his standard running away from the packs bombing it into the forward line.
If you said we could have that at the start of the day I would have taken it.
I agree though that Roberts or Austin should have played, pretty sure they will next week with Essendons tall forward line.

[Doc26]

1. Poor crowd considering we have 28k plus members and we can only get 17k to a game including crows fans.
2. Membership at only 28k is pathetic. Where are the other 7k so called supporters. I am over it regarding our lack of membership. Fair enough if you cannot afford it but it will crap me of when these supporters come back when we are a better team.


Don't blame our supporters. They are the most loyal of any.

We have the worst family friendly and commercial friendly fixture of any AFL team going around, fixed at times that no one cares about. If the loading up our home game slots with 4:40pm Sunday starts is to be our future then we can kiss any growth of our membership base and financial support goodbye.

Regardless of our style of game or win/loss ratios, if we do not make the scheduling attractive for adults with dependant children and for potential financial backers we will become irrelevant before long. Throwing in the odd 1:10pm time slot on a Sunday and expecting a crowd rush is naive without looking at the bigger picture of the overall attractiveness of being a Bulldog supporter throughout the seasons.

Footscray / Western Bulldog supporters have seen through many years of hard times and have stuck true. What we haven't had to endure, and now with regularity, is fixturing where we find ourselves with the weekend all but over, as we prepare for the next work or school week.

Garlick, Gordon and co. must demand better from the AFL's fixturing if we are to remain a viable entity.



I agree though that Roberts or Austin should have played, pretty sure they will next week with Essendons tall forward line.

Austin is not on our primary list. He can't be selected unless we find an injured player who we're prepared to place on a long term injury list.

[MrMahatma]

I actually thought Jong did a reasonable job on Dangerfield today. Yes he got quite a few possessions but he kicked no goals and rarely did he do his standard running away from the packs bombing it into the forward line.
If you said we could have that at the start of the day I would have taken it.
I agree though that Roberts or Austin should have played, pretty sure they will next week with Essendons tall forward line.

Watched Macca's press conference I see...

[Scorlibo]

Watched Macca's press conference I see...

I was spewing while hearing Macca say those things about Jong vs Dangerfield. Patty was BOG, Jong must make way for those coming through Footscray.

[LostDoggy]

Watched Macca's press conference I see...

And, I happen to agree with him.
I was comfortable with Jongs effort, did not stop him but he was not his usual brilliance though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I was spewing while hearing Macca say those things about Jong vs Dangerfield. Patty was BOG, Jong must make way for those coming through Footscray.

The reporter(s) certainly were implying it was a crazy decision and that Jong wasn't up to it, but McCartney defended/somewhat praised him. Whilst Dangerfield didn't kick any goals, to suggest Jong did a good job is ludicrous. Dangerfield helped Adelaide win the game and ended up with 28 possessions.

[LostDoggy]

Don't blame our supporters. They are the most loyal of any.

We have the worst family friendly and commercial friendly fixture of any AFL team going around, fixed at times that no one cares about. If the loading up our home game slots with 4:40pm Sunday starts is to be our future then we can kiss any growth of our membership base and financial support goodbye.

Regardless of our style of game or win/loss ratios, if we do not make the scheduling attractive for adults with dependant children and for potential financial backers we will become irrelevant before long. Throwing in the odd 1:10pm time slot on a Sunday and expecting a crowd rush is naive without looking at the bigger picture of the overall attractiveness of being a Bulldog supporter throughout the seasons.

Footscray / Western Bulldog supporters have seen through many years of hard times and have stuck true. What we haven't had to endure, and now with regularity, is fixturing where we find ourselves with the weekend all but over, as we prepare for the next work or school week.

Garlick, Gordon and co. must demand better from the AFL's fixturing if we are to remain a viable entity.




Austin is not on our primary list. He can't be selected unless we find an injured player who we're prepared to place on a long term injury list.
I don't disagree with you regarding some of our time slots I hate the 4 40 times but when you do get given a 1 10 time slit and no one turns up why would they then give us better times.
It does not matter what you say, when you have 28k members and you only get 17k people to a reasonable time slot it is poor.

[Scorlibo]

The reporter(s) certainly were implying it was a crazy decision and that Jong wasn't up to it, but McCartney defended/somewhat praised him. Whilst Dangerfield didn't kick any goals, to suggest Jong did a good job is ludicrous. Dangerfield helped Adelaide win the game and ended up with 28 possessions.

Let's hope that internally there's no delusion.

[Remi Moses]

I actually agree with McCartney to a point.
Dangerfield murders teams with his run and carry, not only his pace and the havoc he creates.
He also hits the scoreboard.

[bornadog]

I actually agree with McCartney to a point.
Dangerfield murders teams with his run and carry, not only his pace and the havoc he creates.
He also hits the scoreboard.

i thought Thompson was more damaging, particularly in the 2nd and 3rd

[LostDoggy]

1. Our supporters are piss-weak. Betts kicked that goal and 80% of those in attendance suddenly had a train to catch. When our players see that, I wonder if it comes into their minds when weighing up contract offers from other clubs.
2. If the match comittee read Woof, next week we'd play the entire team in the twos.
3. We are poor at implementing a Plan B when Plan A goes to shit.

[Doc26]

I don't disagree with you regarding some of our time slots I hate the 4 40 times but when you do get given a 1 10 time slit and no one turns up why would they then give us better times.
It does not matter what you say, when you have 28k members and you only get 17k people to a reasonable time slot it is poor.

Cause and effect. If you make the overall package unattractive then stronger alternatives will be sought like our transients electing to take up a Foxtel subscription or moving to another code or just finding other alternatives to enjoy the long weekend. The problem is less to do with 17k showing up today but with the fact that our base now only sits at 26,820 coupled with yet again goddam awful fixturing. The league and its Clubs have accepted our game be driven first and foremost by big media revenues with the sacrifice having to be made by the least supported / secure, unless of course you're one of the privileged expansion teams. I suspect it will be worse again next season unless we make some inroads into improving the overall attractiveness for supporters with families. For us as it stands, the fixturing, somewhat by stealth, is helping to drive our redundancy.

[josie]

1. Our supporters are piss-weak. Betts kicked that goal and 80% of those in attendance suddenly had a train to catch. When our players see that, I wonder if it comes into their minds when weighing up contract offers from other clubs.
2. If the match comittee read Woof, next week we'd play the entire team in the twos.
3. We are poor at implementing a Plan B when Plan A goes to shit.

Agree with this. A boost of confidence (goodness knows how they will achieve this) !! And some player changes with X factor required.

[Ozza]

1.10 Sunday is a problem.
4.40 Sunday is a problem
2.10 Saturday is a problem....

Is there any other time slots we can make excuses about? Because it's not like we had a strong attendance at the Saturday game. It's just a cop out. People just don't want to turn up until we are a top side again. They'll be the same people that ring up 3AW and say they've been a 'supporter for 25 years. And we should sack the coach, call the club footscray, and recruit Fevola'.

As bornascragger said - the moment Betts kicked that goal - all that was there from the pitiful dogs attendance had to 'beat the traffic'.

[G-Mo77]

1.10 Sunday is a problem.
4.40 Sunday is a problem
2.10 Saturday is a problem....

Is there any other time slots we can make excuses about? Because it's not like we had a strong attendance at the Saturday game. It's just a cop out. People just don't want to turn up until we are a top side again. They'll be the same people that ring up 3AW and say they've been a 'supporter for 25 years. And we should sack the coach, call the club footscray, and recruit Fevola'.

As bornascragger said - the moment Betts kicked that goal - all that was there from the pitiful dogs attendance had to 'beat the traffic'.

7.40pm on Saturday is not a good one either.

What are we going to draw at the MCG in 2 weeks time? Yikes.

[Greystache]

1. Our supporters are piss-weak. Betts kicked that goal and 80% of those in attendance suddenly had a train to catch. When our players see that, I wonder if it comes into their minds when weighing up contract offers from other clubs.
2. If the match comittee read Woof, next week we'd play the entire team in the twos.

God I find these types of posts boring.

Blah blah blah, you're all bad people, blah blah, you should all try to be like me, I'm a good person, blah blah. What does continually posting things like this add to discussion other than trying to convince yourself (or others) that you're morally superior to the masses?

[Eastdog]

7.40pm on Saturday is not a good one either.

What are we going to draw at the MCG in 2 weeks time? Yikes.

Really our supporters should really try their best they can too make that match as that is our only MCG match of the year. You would think Saturday 7:40pm is quite a good time when you compare it too Sunday 4:40pm.

[LostDoggy]

Some people may have gone away for the long weekend, but those who do turn up leaving early always shits me. I've heard all the excuses but they never apply when we're winning. There are exceptions — a couple behind me live in Woodend and always shoot off in the fourth, win or lose — but most of the time it's the mentality: “I'm not staying for this shit.”

Then when a player does the same we roast them.

[always right]

God I find these types of posts boring.

Blah blah blah, you're all bad people, blah blah, you should all try to be like me, I'm a good person, blah blah. What does continually posting things like this add to discussion other than trying to convince yourself (or others) that you're morally superior to the masses?

And by posting this you have added exactly what to the discussion? If someone is as frustrated by the level of support as they are by the team's performance, they have every right to say so.

[always right]

Let's hope that internally there's no delusion.
Serious question....who do you believe would have done a better job?

[Greystache]

And by posting this you have added exactly what to the discussion? If someone is as frustrated by the level of support as they are by the team's performance, they have every right to say so.

I've said it once, not thread after thread week after week bashing supporters for not being like him. It's garbage.

[Doc26]

1.10 Sunday is a problem.
4.40 Sunday is a problem
2.10 Saturday is a problem....

Is there any other time slots we can make excuses about? Because it's not like we had a strong attendance at the Saturday game. It's just a cop out. People just don't want to turn up until we are a top side again. They'll be the same people that ring up 3AW and say they've been a 'supporter for 25 years. And we should sack the coach, call the club footscray, and recruit Fevola'.

As bornascragger said - the moment Betts kicked that goal - all that was there from the pitiful dogs attendance had to 'beat the traffic'.

I do disagree with this sentiment.

Following are all our home games on offer throughout 2014 that don't fall in the bracket of starting mid to late afternoon on a Sunday, which I contest that if you have a young family will make up much of the value proposition in taking out a family membership which btw for a basic reserved seat package starts at ~$720 before any incidentals.

Richmond, Crows, Lions, Demons, a North replacement game (general admission only) and with the Giants still to be confirmed.

And we might wonder why people aren't showing up.

[Eastdog]

Looking at the fixture from Round 7 on we have 2 Sunday twilight games against Geelong down at Skilled Stadium in Round 16 and a home game against Essendon at Etihad in Round 18 so its not too bad but still we are playing a lot on Sundays and not much on Saturday and don't get me started on Friday night!

[Ozza]

The reporter(s) certainly were implying it was a crazy decision and that Jong wasn't up to it, but McCartney defended/somewhat praised him. Whilst Dangerfield didn't kick any goals, to suggest Jong did a good job is ludicrous. Dangerfield helped Adelaide win the game and ended up with 28 possessions.

I think that one mistake we made was that Jong was starting inside the square (most times) when Danger was in there. We really lost our ascendency in the middle once Danger and Jong were both inside during most of the 2nd and 3rd.

Dangerfield was one of their good players, but most of his possessions around the ground were under pressure and he was either hand balling or kicking around corners most of the time. It wasn't a complete disaster. Unlike the tall back line selection.

[Scorlibo]

Serious question....who do you believe would have done a better job?

By playing Jong as a tagger in the first place, we sacrifice one ball winner where the ball is most - in the midfield. That's a basic fact to do with taggers. To make up for this, taggers simply have to make a dent in their opponent's game. If they don't, they lose (and the team lose) by default.

Ozza's nailed it:


I think that one mistake we made was that Jong was starting inside the square (most times) when Danger was in there. We really lost our ascendency in the middle once Danger and Jong were both inside during most of the 2nd and 3rd.

Rather than play a young player in a role he hasn't played before, I would be inclined to let someone like Boyd go head to head with Dangerfield at stoppages and then have Easton Wood pick him up when resting forward.

[Remi Moses]

I've said it once, not thread after thread week after week bashing supporters for not being like him. It's garbage.
I agree. Some fans clap
Them off(even after a flogging)some fans leave early ( I've left while we've lead) It's such a minute petty issue really.
Is a supporter less of one because he or she leaves before the end?I'd be more concerned that some are not showing up.

[Hotdog60]

I don't disagree with you regarding some of our time slots I hate the 4 40 times but when you do get given a 1 10 time slit and no one turns up why would they then give us better times.
It does not matter what you say, when you have 28k members and you only get 17k people to a reasonable time slot it is poor.

I'm a member for life but I for me to see a game live is a very small percentage. Some of us can't afford the plane trip as well.;)

[soupman]

Rather than play a young player in a role he hasn't played before, I would be inclined to let someone like Boyd go head to head with Dangerfield at stoppages and then have Easton Wood pick him up when resting forward.

We know how that ends.

Jong by no means shut him down, but Dangerfield did not break the game open and many of his touches were under pressure. I thought Jong was respectable.

[always right]

By playing Jong as a tagger in the first place, we sacrifice one ball winner where the ball is most - in the midfield. That's a basic fact to do with taggers. To make up for this, taggers simply have to make a dent in their opponent's game. If they don't, they lose (and the team lose) by default.

Ozza's nailed it:

Rather than play a young player in a role he hasn't played before, I would be inclined to let someone like Boyd go head to head with Dangerfield at stoppages and then have Easton Wood pick him up when resting forward.

I'd have to watch the match back....and I really don't want to do that just yet:rolleyes: but my perception of Dangerfield's game was that he wasn't allowed to break into space where he can be most damaging. Like Soupaman I thought we were at least able to put him under some pressure when he gathered the ball but being the great player he is, Dangerfield always seemed to be able to get his arms free in the tackle to offload. IMO he wasn't BOG despite his stats. There were more influential players than Dangerfield yesterday.

Boyd may have been better able to use his stronger body and experience to provide a contest at stoppages but I shudder to think what would have happened had Dangerfield been able to break into space. Jong put in an honest performance and I don't think anyone else would have fared any better. I noted that when Dangerfield went forward it was in fact Easton Wood who took him.

[bornadog]

We know how that ends.

Jong by no means shut him down, but Dangerfield did not break the game open and many of his touches were under pressure. I thought Jong was respectable.

Whether we agree or not, Macca's idea of developing young players is to get them to follow a champion player around for the day. In the end Jong collected 14 disposals and laid the second highest tackles for us. His skills are poor and he needs lots of development to get him to the standard required. However, he has a great attitude, a great work ethic, goes in hard and is a work in progress after playing his 9th game.

[always right]

Whether we agree or not, Macca's idea of developing young players is to get them to follow a champion player around for the day. In the end Jong collected 14 disposals and laid the second highest tackles for us. His skills are poor and he needs lots of development to get him to the standard required. However, he has a great attitude, a great work ethic, goes in hard and is a work in progress after playing his 9th game.

If I have one reservation as to whether Jong will make it....it's in regard to his awareness. He seems he has zero ability to understand what to do when receiving the ball one-out under pressure. Invariably it leads to a turnover.

[Mantis]

Rather than play a young player in a role he hasn't played before, I would be inclined to let someone like Boyd go head to head with Dangerfield at stoppages and then have Easton Wood pick him up when resting forward.

Libba (our best clearance player) was on Dangerfield for quite a few clearance situations... Jong would pick him up as play continued.

[Maddog37]

Too much focus on Jong who always gives his all even if it is limited. There are players like Griff, Cooney, Murph, Higgins etc that go missing for large parts of games and only try when it suits them. Weak as piss and this is the reason our supporters do not turn up week in week out.

As for supporters leaving early, the last time I looked we pay to watch them play whereas the players are paid well to turn up and perform.

I leave early if the players are not giving their all and I didn't go yesterday because I am sick of watching the rubbish footy we played against Carlton etc. Until the team is worth watching then the crowds and memberships will be low.

Having said that, I have a family premiership gold member for life that gets paid year in year out regardless of the above as I love the club and want to support it.

[Mofra]

1. The degate about "throw Jones into the backline" is over. Completely.

2. Will rucks better when given a proper chop-out

3. The interesting tactic in the 1st quarter where Jong would run into the square from the HB line at the bounce to take Dangerfield - it actually worked for a while. B-Mac brushing up on his tactics book?

PS: Nothing has changed my perception that we need to target a backline rebounder in this upcoming draft. In terms of effective rebounding, we have Murphy, Wood sometimes, then a bare cupboard.

[LostDoggy]

1. Our supporters are piss-weak. Betts kicked that goal and 80% of those in attendance suddenly had a train to catch. When our players see that, I wonder if it comes into their minds when weighing up contract offers from other clubs.
2. If the match comittee read Woof, next week we'd play the entire team in the twos.
3. We are poor at implementing a Plan B when Plan A goes to shit.

On a serious note - what is "Plan A" and "Plan B"...I'm not to sure I know

[westdog54]

1. Positional experiments for the sake of development should occur at Footscray. Having Stringer follow J-Pod around was a mistake.
2. There's only so much you can do to cover the loss of your two best defenders.
3. I don't think I've ever been frustrated as much by a footballer as I am by Liam Jones. We all know the boy can play but its hard to put yesterday into words.

[Maddog37]

Still not sure Jones is completely lost as a defender. Was thrown into the deep end yesterday.

[LostDoggy]

Too much focus on Jong who always gives his all even if it is limited. There are players like Griff, Cooney, Murph, Higgins etc that go missing for large parts of games and only try when it suits them. Weak as piss and this is the reason our supporters do not turn up week in week out.

As for supporters leaving early, the last time I looked we pay to watch them play whereas the players are paid well to turn up and perform.

I leave early if the players are not giving their all and I didn't go yesterday because I am sick of watching the rubbish footy we played against Carlton etc. Until the team is worth watching then the crowds and memberships will be low.

Having said that, I have a family premiership gold member for life that gets paid year in year out regardless of the above as I love the club and want to support it.



See you when the weather turns for the better

[G-Mo77]

Still not sure Jones is completely lost as a defender. Was thrown into the deep end yesterday.

When he was close to his opponent his spoiling and body work was pretty good but gave far to much space most of the time he was there so that rarely happened. There was one stage there he was at least 5 metres away from his direct opponent.

[Mantis]

When he was close to his opponent his spoiling and body work was pretty good but gave far to much space most of the time he was there so that rarely happened. There was one stage there he was at least 5 metres away from his direct opponent.

Due to conditioning or concentration?

Pretty sure Jones was on the ground for the entire last qtr... He came to the bench on 2 occassions and was sent back out there. He could be seen also looking at bench staff to receive a signal to come off, but that never came.

[LostDoggy]

I've said it once, not thread after thread week after week bashing supporters for not being like him. It's garbage.

OK, so you think my post is garbage. Cool. As long as we're sorting through the rubbish though, I'd consider the following sentiments just as ridiculous:


Jong, after playing 9 games, won't make it at AFL level.
Young isn't in our best 22, despite being continually named in our side with nobody really pushing to oust him at VFL level.
Jones, after playing one shocker after a few decent runs, is never going to be anything and should be dropped.
The match committee should be making wholesale changes — 8 to 10 — every week.
Any player who fumbles the ball just isn't good enough, and should be immediately dropped to Footscray. Conversely, our players need to be courageous and take the game on. :eek:
Wallis will never be a good player because he is playing a tagging role.
We are screwed when Morris and Murphy retire. However, Young, JJ, etc. shouldn't be played.
Stringer, Williams, Jones and Campbell should be playing at Footscray. BUT WE NEED MORE TALLS!!
Our club's predicament is due to a Game Of Thrones-like conspiracy by the AFL. (So which club is Sansa?)
Our attendances have nothing to do with our fans and are solely due to poor fixturing. Woe is us.
Gordon, Garlick and co. aren't demanding enough from the AFL. Couldn't possibly be that the AFL simply retorts: Get more than 30k to a home game and we'll chat.
Our club needs to blame everything on everybody else, and develop a winning culture.


That's my opinion. I consider them stupid statements. But some people would say they are legitimate points, and that's why we're here. It's all discussion, guys, even if you find it repetitive. On my part, it's repetitive because I generally have the same annoyances every week, like everybody else does with Jones, I guess.

We sit on our fat arses eating pie whilst these guys put it all on the line, and when somebody asks, “Is there more we can do as fans to support them? Should we stop just walking out on them when it's not going well?” suddenly I'm being a superior, pompous arsehat.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: those defending Jong and his position in the side.

Would he get a game anywhere else? Maybe Melbourne/Brisbane, but I doubt it given Melbourne's midfield group and Brisbane has Raines.

[Doc26]

OK, so you think my post is garbage. Cool. As long as we're sorting through the rubbish though, I'd consider the following sentiments just as ridiculous:


Jong, after playing 9 games, won't make it at AFL level.
Young isn't in our best 22, despite being continually named in our side with nobody really pushing to oust him at VFL level.
Jones, after playing one shocker after a few decent runs, is never going to be anything and should be dropped.
The match committee should be making wholesale changes — 8 to 10 — every week.
Any player who fumbles the ball just isn't good enough, and should be immediately dropped to Footscray. Conversely, our players need to be courageous and take the game on. :eek:
Wallis will never be a good player because he is playing a tagging role.
We are screwed when Morris and Murphy retire. However, Young, JJ, etc. shouldn't be played.
Stringer, Williams, Jones and Campbell should be playing at Footscray. BUT WE NEED MORE TALLS!!
Our club's predicament is due to a Game Of Thrones-like conspiracy by the AFL. (So which club is Sansa?)
Our attendances have nothing to do with our fans and are solely due to poor fixturing. Woe is us.
Gordon, Garlick and co. aren't demanding enough from the AFL. Couldn't possibly be that the AFL simply retorts: Get more than 30k to a home game and we'll chat.
Our club needs to blame everything on everybody else, and develop a winning culture.


That's my opinion. I consider them stupid statements. But some people would say they are legitimate points, and that's why we're here. It's all discussion, guys, even if you find it repetitive. On my part, it's repetitive because I generally have the same annoyances every week, like everybody else does with Jones, I guess.

We sit on our fat arses eating pie whilst these guys put it all on the line, and when somebody asks, “Is there more we can do as fans to support them? Should we stop just walking out on them when it's not going well?” suddenly I'm being a superior, pompous arsehat.

Right, so just to get your point across to Stache you then elect to call out others specific opinions, like my own, "rubbish" or "stupid". Good form mate.

[always right]

Re: those defending Jong and his position in the side.

Would he get a game anywhere else? Maybe Melbourne/Brisbane, but I doubt it given Melbourne's midfield group and Brisbane has Raines.

Who gives a flying **** whether he would get a game with another side?

No-one is saying he doesn't have deficiencies in his game. The fact is we are a team who is at the stage where playing finals footy is not a realistic outcome in 2014 so the focus should be on developing a team that can challenge in coming years. That means giving some blokes games when perhaps they are not in our best 22 right now if it means we fast track their development.

I guess the same approach is being taken with Stringer. Not playing well enough to be in our best 22 but being given the opportunity to devlop, even if it means making him play in an unfamiliar position against a bigger, more experienced opponent. Guarantee he learned more on Sunday than he did in previous games.

Back to Jong....he has taken huge steps since joining the club. He is big bodied, quick and willing...not bad attributes as a starting point. Now we need to find out if he can develop game awareness, poise and decision making. If he can't then you'll have your wish and he'll be gone in two years. I'm quite happy to experiment whilst we go through this transition.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Who gives a flying **** whether he would get a game with another side?

A way with words I see.

Nobody cares whether he would, but it does illustrate a point.


Back to Jong....he has taken huge steps since joining the club. He is big bodied, quick and willing...not bad attributes as a starting point. Now we need to find out if he can develop game awareness, poise and decision making. If he can't then you'll have your wish and he'll be gone in two years. I'm quite happy to experiment whilst we go through this transition.

You do realise there are footballers nation wide who are big bodied, quick and willing, right?

A club like ours shouldn't be wasting two years to find out if they can turn a kid with a good attitude into a good footballer. I know I've harped on about this for weeks now, but it's driving me nuts.

I shall attempt to remain tight lipped about this from here on in.

[G-Mo77]

Due to conditioning or concentration?

Pretty sure Jones was on the ground for the entire last qtr... He came to the bench on 2 occassions and was sent back out there. He could be seen also looking at bench staff to receive a signal to come off, but that never came.

Neither, I'd imagine. It got pointed out to me but when the ball was in our forward 50 he wasn't anywhere near his man, not behind him, not forward of him about 5m away to the side on more than one occasion. He may have been anticipating a clearance, not sure? I really can't remember if this hurt us or not.

[LostDoggy]

That means giving some blokes games when perhaps they are not in our best 22 right now if it means we fast track their development.

I guess the same approach is being taken with Stringer. Not playing well enough to be in our best 22 but being given the opportunity to devlop


Didn't Melbourne get fined a significant amount of money for a similar strategy? More fool the poor punter who takes a gamble on his beloved bulldogs with the idiotic view that the MC may put out the 22 players in the 22 positions most likely to win us the game.

[Remi Moses]

Didn't Melbourne get fined a significant amount of money for a similar strategy? More fool the poor punter who takes a gamble on his beloved bulldogs with the idiotic view that the MC may put out the 22 players in the 22 positions most likely to win us the game.

Boy, drawing a long bow there aren't we?Maybe should take into account we're missing our two best defenders!

[always right]

Didn't Melbourne get fined a significant amount of money for a similar strategy? More fool the poor punter who takes a gamble on his beloved bulldogs with the idiotic view that the MC may put out the 22 players in the 22 positions most likely to win us the game.

Seriously?

[Remi Moses]

A way with words I see.

Nobody cares whether he would, but it does illustrate a point.



You do realise there are footballers nation wide who are big bodied, quick and willing, right?

A club like ours shouldn't be wasting two years to find out if they can turn a kid with a good attitude into a good footballer. I know I've harped on about this for weeks now, but it's driving me nuts.

I shall attempt to remain tight lipped about this from here on in.
A club "like ours" is still in development mode.
For crying out loud the kid's 19 and played a dozen games.
For mine he has deficiencies ( what young player hasn't?)We have many players similar, banging down the door .
No doubt Smith Hrovat Wallis will be back in .

[always right]

A way with words I see.

Nobody cares whether he would, but it does illustrate a point.



You do realise there are footballers nation wide who are big bodied, quick and willing, right?

A club like ours shouldn't be wasting two years to find out if they can turn a kid with a good attitude into a good footballer. I know I've harped on about this for weeks now, but it's driving me nuts.

I shall attempt to remain tight lipped about this from here on in.

My apologies for not listing more attributes:rolleyes:

Why remain tight lipped? Isn't this a board for opinions and counter opinions....sometimes expressed with a bit of attitude?:)

[LostDoggy]

Bit sombre but a reality is that with an average life expectancy of 81 years over 27,000 members. On average around 7 Bulldog members will pass away this week, I knew one who passed away last week and the final game she saw was what we threw up against Carlton. Did those 7 people miss going out on a winning note because Jake Stringer needs development?

I understand the blood the kids mantra, but they can learn the ropes in the VFL, isn't that the reason we invested so heavily creating Footscray? You don't see promising military recruits placed straight into the SAS unproven so they can develop. IMHO the waters get very murky.....simple solution, play the team most likely to win you the game. Nature will eventually take it's course and the old will be replaced by the new on their merits.

[Remi Moses]

Who gives a flying **** whether he would get a game with another side?

No-one is saying he doesn't have deficiencies in his game. The fact is we are a team who is at the stage where playing finals footy is not a realistic outcome in 2014 so the focus should be on developing a team that can challenge in coming years. That means giving some blokes games when perhaps they are not in our best 22 right now if it means we fast track their development.

I guess the same approach is being taken with Stringer. Not playing well enough to be in our best 22 but being given the opportunity to devlop, even if it means making him play in an unfamiliar position against a bigger, more experienced opponent. Guarantee he learned more on Sunday than he did in previous games.

Back to Jong....he has taken huge steps since joining the club. He is big bodied, quick and willing...not bad attributes as a starting point. Now we need to find out if he can develop game awareness, poise and decision making. If he can't then you'll have your wish and he'll be gone in two years. I'm quite happy to experiment whilst we go through this transition.

I agree, and if he doesn't improve on his weaknesses he'll be gone.
But final judgement on his body of work is frightening

[always right]

Bit sombre but a reality is that with an average life expectancy of 81 years over 27,000 members. On average around 7 Bulldog members will pass away this week, I knew one who passed away last week and the final game she saw was what we threw up against Carlton. Did those 7 people miss going out on a winning note because Jake Stringer needs development?

I understand the blood the kids mantra, but they can learn the ropes in the VFL, isn't that the reason we invested so heavily creating Footscray? You don't see promising military recruits placed straight into the SAS unproven so they can develop. IMHO the waters get very murky.....simple solution, play the team most likely to win you the game. Nature will eventually take it's course and the old will be replaced by the new on their merits.

Deliberate Anzac round connection? Well played m'lord.

[Remi Moses]

Bit sombre but a reality is that with an average life expectancy of 81 years over 27,000 members. On average around 7 Bulldog members will pass away this week, I knew one who passed away last week and the final game she saw was what we threw up against Carlton. Did those 7 people miss going out on a winning note because Jake Stringer needs development?

I understand the blood the kids mantra, but they can learn the ropes in the VFL, isn't that the reason we invested so heavily creating Footscray? You don't see promising military recruits placed straight into the SAS unproven so they can develop. IMHO the waters get very murky.....simple solution, play the team most likely to win you the game. Nature will eventually take it's course and the old will be replaced by the new on their merits.
I don't know how to respond to this.if I could find some eyes to roll

[LostDoggy]

Seriously?

Seriously! You are talking about forfeiting a year for the development of our side, I don't see how this differs much from tanking? I'm not saying for a minute we are doing that and Stringer and Jong may well be in our best 22 but what I disagree with is your sentiment.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

A club "like ours" is still in development mode.
For crying out loud the kid's 19 and played a dozen games.
For mine he has deficiencies ( what young player hasn't?)We have many players similar, banging down the door .
No doubt Smith Hrovat Wallis will be back in .

It's just not as simple as that.

Just because you're young, it doesn't mean you're good.


My apologies for not listing more attributes:rolleyes:

Why remain tight lipped? Isn't this a board for opinions and counter opinions....sometimes expressed with a bit of attitude?:)

True, but to be fair I have aired my opinion on this subject enough haha.

[Remi Moses]

Seriously! You are talking about forfeiting a year for the development of our side, I don't see how this differs much from tanking? I'm not saying for a minute we are doing that and Stringer and Jong may well be in our best 22 but what I disagree with is your sentiment.

Melbourne just did what many football clubs have done over the years.
Unfortunately for them they got pinged.Personally reckon trying players in different spots should be reserved for Foorscray, but what other options do you have when missing key backs? Young was ordinary, and jones couldn't get into the game.
Tanking is when players deliberately don't try, but a pretty grey area trying to determine if a coach is tanking

[always right]

Seriously! You are talking about forfeiting a year for the development of our side, I don't see how this differs much from tanking? I'm not saying for a minute we are doing that and Stringer and Jong may well be in our best 22 but what I disagree with is your sentiment.
Yeah, that's what I said:rolleyes:

You're right.....we are the only side in history to have played a young bloke in the belief his development will have benefits for the side. Clearly tanking.

[Remi Moses]

Pretty simplistic argument BB.
If you don't realise it takes time for young footballers to develop and become a good footballer you're living in an unrealistic world!

[Scorlibo]

Yeah, that's what I said:rolleyes:

You're right.....we are the only side in history to have played a young bloke in the belief his development will have benefits for the side. Clearly tanking.

Of course a lot of clubs do it to one degree or another. Melbourne were just unlucky to get caught up in an AFL investigation.

I'm with Murphy Contradicts Law, we need to win games first and foremost. A winning culture always beats getting experience into kids.

[Greystache]

Pretty simplistic argument BB.
If you don't realise it takes time for young footballers to develop and become a good footballer you're living in an unrealistic world!

We do have a reserves side that we have full control over.

I can't understand the position many people are taking that "X player has to play so they can develop", it's almost as if that if they don't play seniors they'll be working at the hardware store on Saturday afternoon and it will be a week in their footballing lives lost. Let them learn in the reserves until they're up to AFL, if ever.

What was the point of paying for our own VFL if every kid we rate has to play seniors or they won't learn? We may add well divide them amongst the 4 stand alone VFL clubs and spend the money on GPS units etc.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Pretty simplistic argument BB.
If you don't realise it takes time for young footballers to develop and become a good footballer you're living in an unrealistic world!

It's not simplistic at all. Saying they are young and need to play seniors to develop is simplistic. If that was the case, every young player would end up becoming a good player. It just doesn't work that way.


We do have a reserves side that we have full control over.

I can't understand the position many people are taking that "X player has to play so they can develop", it's almost as if that if they don't play seniors they'll be working at the hardware store on Saturday afternoon and it will be a week in their footballing lives lost. Let them learn in the reserves until they're up to AFL, if ever.

What was the point of paying for our own VFL if every kid we rate has to play seniors or they won't learn? We may add well divide them amongst the 4 stand alone VFL clubs and spend the money on GPS units etc.

Grey summed it up well, I agree wholeheartedly.

[always right]

Of course a lot of clubs do it to one degree or another. Melbourne were just unlucky to get caught up in an AFL investigation.

I'm with Murphy Contradicts Law, we need to win games first and foremost. A winning culture always beats getting experience into kids.

We can't do both? It's not as if we are only playing kids. We're talking about one player who must be doing enough things right in the coach's eyes for him to have been persevered with for several games.

Perhaps we wouldn't even be discussing this if Wallis had been better against Murphy as I suspect he would have picked up Dangerfield as he did last year. With Picken clearly earmarked for Betts perhaps Macca simply saw Jong as our best/only option. Perhaps he thought playing on Dangerfield would be more beneficial for Jong than him playing against the Bendigo witches hats.

[bornadog]

It's just not as simple as that.

Just because you're young, it doesn't mean you're good.

True, but to be fair I have aired my opinion on this subject enough haha.

You are right about Jong at this stage of his career, but I think Macca has a very different philosophy than we do.

We want wins and wonder why players are in. How many posters have called for Stringer to be dropped, yet Macca keeps him in the team. I actually saw an improvement in Stringer this week, and probably played his best footy for us. Yes, Pods beat him in the air, but what else can we expect when someone is bigger and stronger. However, there were other aspects of his game the MC would have liked. eg, the chase in the forward pocket and pressure he applied followed up with Dhal applying pressure and then Adelaide turning the ball over in front of goal.

Similarly, Macca has a plan for Jong and hopefully he is doing the things he is expected to do. Time will tell whether he makes it.

On the other hand, players with more than 50 games, should be contributing,a nd deserve to be dropped if they don't.

[LostDoggy]

The fact is we are a team who is at the stage where playing finals footy is not a realistic outcome in 2014 so the focus should be on developing a team that can challenge in coming years. That means giving some blokes games when perhaps they are not in our best 22 right now.



Sort of sounds like what you said!

Of course I don't think we are tanking, I don't even know if players are being selected for development over merit. But if they are, personally I don't agree with it. Remi what I see as simplisitic is your view that the only way a young player can mature and improve is by being gifted senior selection.

[bornadog]

We do have a reserves side that we have full control over.

I can't understand the position many people are taking that "X player has to play so they can develop", it's almost as if that if they don't play seniors they'll be working at the hardware store on Saturday afternoon and it will be a week in their footballing lives lost. Let them learn in the reserves until they're up to AFL, if ever.

What was the point of paying for our own VFL if every kid we rate has to play seniors or they won't learn? We may add well divide them amongst the 4 stand alone VFL clubs and spend the money on GPS units etc.

Well someone has to play in the seniors as half the team haven't played 50 games yet.

The point is, when you have a player with less than 10, or 20 games, I think the criticism should be a bit more lenient, or understanding that they are not exactly going to go out there and thrash their opponent.

[always right]

Interesting quote from Chris Scott on yesterday's game.


"It's possible we'll be better if we react the right way and do the work and we have a look at the things we need to improve on but we make no apologies for exposing our inexperienced players to the big stage.

One game's not a disaster at all, we'll keep playing the young ones that are deserving of the opportunity and backing them in to do the job."

[soupman]

I'm with Murphy Contradicts Law, we need to win games first and foremost. A winning culture always beats getting experience into kids.

Not sure where you get the impression we aren't trying our hardest to develop a winning culture.

We have regularly picked players like Boyd, Goodes and Lower last year. There was a debate on here just this week about how Gia playing was at the expense of our kids development, which would suggest the MC is keener on an experienced winning side than a developmental one than we are here.

Almost every player has had to earn their spot in the side. The MC has been willing to keep underperforming players in the side on the odd occasion (Stringer) but we have seen that they have consistently tried to pick the best side possible, and punished players they weren't happy with (Wallis, Williams etc.)

Jongs promotion and selection was earnt off the back of a very solid and encouraging pre-season, and acquitting himself well, if not spectacularly in the AFL. We are hardly gifting games to the kids Melbourne style when some of our most important young guys like Talia and Jones were forced to make their way in via the VFL.

And even if guys like Jong shouldn't be picked, who has done so well to displace him? Honeychurch was the only non-picked contender last week and he is clearly not earmarked for a tagging role. And we have to consider we are developing a winning side, thus all the speculative young guys getting games instead of hacks like Ricky Petterd.

One of the best things about finishing last year so strong was that there was a clear emphasis on developing a side that was winning games ahead of getting draft picks. I fail to see how we have failed to do that this season.

[Ozza]

Its quite well put by Chris Scott.

A lot of doom and gloom on here. Two winnable games the last two weeks, both disappointing results....but in both games we've been a chance to win them in the last quarter.

If we can go without the quarter or so lapses - our overall improvement will be very clear from a year ago to now. In the backline we are missing Morris' (and probably Roughy's) leadership badly. But the silver lining is that we are finding out a bit about the likes of Easton Wood, Talia & Young - for instance. Whether it be good or bad.

[LostDoggy]

Not sure where you get the impression we aren't trying our hardest to develop a winning culture.

We have regularly picked players like Boyd, Goodes and Lower last year. There was a debate on here just this week about how Gia playing was at the expense of our kids development, which would suggest the MC is keener on an experienced winning side than a developmental one than we are here.

Almost every player has had to earn their spot in the side. The MC has been willing to keep underperforming players in the side on the odd occasion (Stringer) but we have seen that they have consistently tried to pick the best side possible, and punished players they weren't happy with (Wallis, Williams etc.)

Jongs promotion and selection was earnt off the back of a very solid and encouraging pre-season, and acquitting himself well, if not spectacularly in the AFL. We are hardly gifting games to the kids Melbourne style when some of our most important young guys like Talia and Jones were forced to make their way in via the VFL.

And even if guys like Jong shouldn't be picked, who has done so well to displace him? Honeychurch was the only non-picked contender last week and he is clearly not earmarked for a tagging role. And we have to consider we are developing a winning side, thus all the speculative young guys getting games instead of hacks like Ricky Petterd.

One of the best things about finishing last year so strong was that there was a clear emphasis on developing a side that was winning games ahead of getting draft picks. I fail to see how we have failed to do that this season.


You're right, it was more a philosophical discussion for mine, not an allegation.

The only one for me that I see as glaring is Stringer, I simply don't think he has earnt his spot in the senior side yet he seems to have become an imovable object. If only he showed the same elusiveness and rat-cunning evading tackles as he does with the MC he would be a star!

[LostDoggy]

Right, so just to get your point across to Stache you then elect to call out others specific opinions, like my own, "rubbish" or "stupid". Good form mate.
Read the whole post. That's my opinion. I am not aiming it at you, I have heard all of those things said numerous times by numerous posters, none of whom were dragged out for posting “garbage”. I also go on to state that I'm possibly wrong, as it's just an opinion, and the statement might in all fact be absolutely spot on the money and I'm just bloody clueless. Just like my statement on our fans that started the shitfight in the first place, it cuts both ways. If I'm posting garbage, I'm not alone.

Didn't Melbourne get fined a significant amount of money for a similar strategy? More fool the poor punter who takes a gamble on his beloved bulldogs with the idiotic view that the MC may put out the 22 players in the 22 positions most likely to win us the game.
So now we're tanking? Jesus…

Bit sombre but a reality is that with an average life expectancy of 81 years over 27,000 members. On average around 7 Bulldog members will pass away this week, I knew one who passed away last week and the final game she saw was what we threw up against Carlton. Did those 7 people miss going out on a winning note because Jake Stringer needs development?
Are you trolling, or are you serious when you accuse Jake Stringer of upsetting 7 old ducks on their death bed?

Perhaps he thought playing on Dangerfield would be more beneficial for Jong than him playing against the Bendigo witches hats.
Spot on.

This place sucks after a loss. You all need some Valium, or a lay, or both.

[Remi Moses]

Interesting quote from Chris Scott on yesterday's game.

He's exactly right . Young players will make mistakes,but they'll give you 100%.

[Remi Moses]

Sort of sounds like what you said!

Of course I don't think we are tanking, I don't even know if players are being selected for development over merit. But if they are, personally I don't agree with it. Remi what I see as simplisitic is your view that the only way a young player can mature and improve is by being gifted senior selection.
So Stringer would have been better playing Bendigo on Anzac Day?
I actually think he was alright on Sunday( not the worst)

[LostDoggy]

Haha, come on Scragger, your quad-quote reply with a twist suggests you're in just as much need of sedation or seduction!

As for the 7 little old ladies, it was deliberate attempt to bolster my argument on how we need to go in with the best possible chance of winning every single week. In retrospect, they may have a little bit more to worry about than Jake the Snake!

[bornadog]

He's exactly right . Young players will make mistakes,but they'll give you 100%.

The culture at Geelong for development is fantastic and they have been in finals for the last 7/8 years, yet keep bringing in young players. On the weekend they had 8 players with less than 50 games. Macca is trying to instil the same phillosphy at the dogs. Play the young players along side experienced players, develop them, teach them and let them takeover.

[Remi Moses]

Who needs Phillip Nitschke ( spelling?) when we've got Jake Stringer.

[LostDoggy]

So Stringer would have been better playing Bendigo on Anzac Day?
I actually think he was alright on Sunday( not the worst)

No certainly not the worst (how could he be the way Jones played!). I just feel like he's had an armchair ride thus far in his time with us and for mine I can see it in the way he plays, almost like he's entitled to be there rather than grateful for the opportunity and willing to put his soul into it. Some people will come back with the arrogance is good argument and all that jazz but I like people to earn their arrogance. Yeh if he can go back to VFL and be dominant, work his rear off and get back into the side i'd love him to become the player we all know/pray he can be, but continually playing him when his performances don't warrant it doesn't help anybody, himself included I imagine.

That being said, it would've been a tough assignment to pick his replacement with limited options.

[Maddog37]

See you when the weather turns for the better

I'm not sure you will be able to see me from way up there on your moral high ground.

[F'scary]

Good thread.

After 6 rounds it is clear to me that we are not that much further advanced than last year. Yes we have had some injuries but the lack of depth is a big worry. A big contributor to this is the way quite a number of our players can't hold form, take the next step up or seem to be taking forever to arrive.

I think there will be a substantial turnover of players at the end of the year. Perhaps the club made a mistake at the end of last year with a pretty minimal turnover.

[Maddog37]

We are losing by less than last year. We look better when we are good than last year. The frustration for me is the difference in effort from one quarter to the next within games.

Is it just the youth factor? Injuries to key players?

[boydogs]

PS: Nothing has changed my perception that we need to target a backline rebounder in this upcoming draft. In terms of effective rebounding, we have Murphy, Wood sometimes, then a bare cupboard.

JJ & Darley?

[FrediKanoute]

2. Membership at only 28k is pathetic. Where are the other 7k so called supporters. I am over it regarding our lack of membership. Fair enough if you cannot afford it but it will crap me of when these supporters come back when we are a better team.

My son and I live overseas so we don't get to go to games....

[1eyedog]

1 Blast it looks like I need more patience.

2 The bye cannot come quick enough for some of the kids.

3 The MC are weirding me out by not selecting another key back to help out Talia.

[Happy Days]

1. If Jones doesn't try then he is terrible, does not have the tricks to get away with having zero tank or effort; totally unable to make quick decisions with a live ball while we're at it.

2. Jong does not have the football smarts to tag anyone who plays even remotely inside. Got sucked to the ball at several contests and allowed Dangerfield to just stroll away. He's hard as but so is Clay Smith, who is also good at other stuff and man COME BACK CLAY

3. Our backline does not bat deep. Jones should not ever be part of that batting order either.

[DISHLICKERS]

1. MC selections are very confusing.

2. Macca sells time ( Wait and the end product will be something special, we are building resilience) Fact is we are stagnating at best.

3. Club bought in on Maccas selling time. Why the rush to give him an extension is beyond me TBH. Staggering to think we would do that.
And dont tell me its for stability please! His match day coaching is up in the air.

[Mofra]

JJ & Darley?
JJ has gone backwards, Darley doesn't look anywhere near it at this stage (ditto Fuller)

[soupman]

3. Club bought in on Maccas selling time. Why the rush to give him an extension is beyond me TBH. Staggering to think we would do that.
And dont tell me its for stability please! His match day coaching is up in the air.

I don't get the issue with the extension. Why are people questioning his match day coaching like it's the difference between whether we should keep him or not at this stage.

BMac was the best development coach going round, one who we brought in to develop a very good side, and one that on the evidence so far seems to be developing a good side. Matchday tactics are only a small part of that, and certainly not the key part.

Developing a side as thoroughly as we are trying to takes longer than a 3 year contract. If we don't extend his contract it is because he is the wrong guy to rebuild the club, and means that our identification and selection process all those years ago in picking him was wrong.

His match day coaching back then was clearly not a high priority, why would it be now?

Have faith, if it turns sour then shit happens. I'd rather it turn sour though through trying something big than by bailing on a plan halfway and mucking up the progress made thus far.

Think of his contract as originally a 5 year contract with a get out clause halfway through in case it just wasn't working. We have chosen not to use that get out clause, and back in the decision we made when we appointed him.

[1eyedog]

I don't get the issue with the extension. Why are people questioning his match day coaching like it's the difference between whether we should keep him or not at this stage.

BMac was the best development coach going round, one who we brought in to develop a very good side, and one that on the evidence so far seems to be developing a good side. Matchday tactics are only a small part of that, and certainly not the key part.

Developing a side as thoroughly as we are trying to takes longer than a 3 year contract. If we don't extend his contract it is because he is the wrong guy to rebuild the club, and means that our identification and selection process all those years ago in picking him was wrong.

His match day coaching back then was clearly not a high priority, why would it be now?

Have faith, if it turns sour then shit happens. I'd rather it turn sour though through trying something big than by bailing on a plan halfway and mucking up the progress made thus far.

Think of his contract as originally a 5 year contract with a get out clause halfway through in case it just wasn't working. We have chosen not to use that get out clause, and back in the decision we made when we appointed him.

Agreed and that's what King, Grant, Monty et. al. are suppose to provide on match day. BMac paints the big picture and the assistants suggest what sized brushes he should use. I've never minded playing players outside their comfort zone when things aren't working (e.g. Carlisle for instance).

[LostDoggy]

1. Our form seems to fluctuate with how big Will is coordinating with the mids. I'd suggest if he was playing as well as he did last year, we might have won a couple more games
2. Staggering how quickly we can lose control of the game and not be able to regain it for some time
3. Stringer played well in the last quarter. Maybe that had something to do with what he experienced playing in defence.

[bornadog]

1. Our form seems to fluctuate with how big Will is coordinating with the mids. I'd suggest if he was playing as well as he did last year, we might have won a couple more games

That is why taps to advantage is so important. However, Libba is being tagged this year and that is killing us.

[1eyedog]

That is why taps to advantage is so important. However, Libba is being tagged this year and that is killing us.

They can't tag everyone someone needs to step up.

[LostDoggy]

My son and I live overseas so we don't get to go to games....

Was never directed at people with legitimate reasons.

[MrMahatma]

Was never directed at people with legitimate reasons.

I live in Brisbane.

I'm sure many of the 7k couldn't make it for legitimate reasons.

[LostDoggy]

I live in Brisbane.

I'm sure many of the 7k couldn't make it for legitimate reasons.

As I posted in another thread, (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?13042-Membership-and-Match-Attendances-1997-2013) our attendance trend is looking dangerous. 1990s dangerous. They can't all be living overseas/interstate. The expressions of concern are not about ripping into ‘lesser’ supporters but genuine concern about how we turn around the growing trend amongst our fan base to just not rock up.

[Mantis]

As I posted in another thread, (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?13042-Membership-and-Match-Attendances-1997-2013) our attendance trend is looking dangerous. 1990s dangerous. They can't all be living overseas/interstate. The expressions of concern are not about ripping into ‘lesser’ supporters but genuine concern about how we turn around the growing trend amongst our fan base to just not rock up.

The cost of going to the footy is a real turn-off for many of our supporters.. The fact that there were rail works on the Werribee/Williamstown train lines over the weekend meaning buses replaced trains b/w Newport & Nth Melb also didn't help.

I know if you really want to go you will find a way, but the fact that our performances aren't great, we are playing a 'bland' style and factors aforementioned mean we are in struggle town.

[always right]

The cost of going to the footy is a real turn-off for many of our supporters.. The fact that there were rail works on the Werribee/Williamstown train lines over the weekend meaning buses replaced trains b/w Newport & Nth Melb also didn't help.

I know if you really want to go you will find a way, but the fact that our performances aren't great, we are playing a 'bland' style and factors aforementioned mean we are in struggle town.

There was nothing bland about our Richmond performance and the first and last quarters against Adelaide. I think this is over-stated. What isn't over-stated is that supporters want to see wins.

The fact that this week is a ticketed game means that I expect to be one of a handful of bulldogs supporters up against 30k arrogant bomber tossers. Aint gonna be pleasant if we don't lift our performance......I really hope Crameri gives them plenty to boo him for.

[Remi Moses]

The whole bland style talk is rubbish.
The 05 to 10 style was great on the eye, but where did it get us?
Finding a blend, and playing all types is the key.
The big issue is the "W" column.

[Remi Moses]

There was nothing bland about our Richmond performance and the first and last quarters against Adelaide. I think this is over-stated. What isn't over-stated is that supporters want to see wins.

The fact that this week is a ticketed game means that I expect to be one of a handful of bulldogs supporters up against 30k arrogant bomber tossers. Aint gonna be pleasant if we don't lift our performance......I really hope Crameri gives them plenty to boo him for.
I don't get it . We play a nice attractive brand and get nowhere, supporters bemoan the lack of finals success!