The does 'it cut both ways' Thread

[bulldogtragic]

In light of some good discussion, banter and maybe even disagreement in some other threads, it occurred to me this 6 six weeks is so much different from the last 6 weeks before that (last year).

After the last 6 weeks of last year:

- Macca is a genius, who needed to be signed because if he lasted until round 6 this year he'd be poached or cost more coin
- The forward line is a dominating threat
- The cracking in comments are not made in jest, but a reflection of Macca's philosophy leading to contested ball winning
- Players were flourishing with more development
- We need to keep the majority of the list

Praise is flowing from everywhere.


The last 6 weeks of this season:

- Macca is getting schooled on match days Would he have been re-signed this week?
- The forward line is back to dysfunctional again
- The cracking in is now a prayer for what we want our team to do because they're getting schooled this year on contested footy
- Player development of especially first round picks in Ayce, Howard, Wallis (maybe even Stringer) seems to be stagnating, and Jones was and is still showing us signs he may never get consistently decent.
- Those kept on from last year have really done very little, Greenwood and Redpath still seem a mile off, Jong is battler with a great work ethic, but we have plenty of those. Gia right now seems to be polarising opinion.
- We decided to move Higgins into a packed half back line and recruited Darley and Fuller as HBF's



So I guess my question is this. If the last 6 weeks entitled praise beyond all limits, what does the last 6 weeks entitle people to think? That is, all those people and decisions which were lauded over for a preseason over 6 games last year, where does commentary stand over the last 6 games this year? Does it cut both ways?

[Maddog37]

Is it possible we are not fit enough and that as the year progresses we get fitter from match conditioning? (Just spitballing a touch here).

[boydogs]

We've been alright IMO, most of the attacks have been made when people have been emotional on match days. Comments today have been noticeably more balanced

[bornadog]

We've been alright IMO, most of the attacks have been made when people have been emotional on match days. Comments today have been noticeably more balanced

Always the case when we lose. Jones got the biggest pasting.

[LostDoggy]

Resigning Macca to 2016 was probably a bit premature, as much as I love him, It doesn't look like he has the gameday coaching to get us into flag contention, but I still think he can develop the team that can contend.

[Remi Moses]

I think we're tracking probably one game less than I thought.
The Picken match up on Betts was good( remember Murphy getting that job)
Don't think AFL level is a time to test an inexperienced player like Stringer, Key back.
Particularly playing on a Wiley old veteran.

[jeemak]

I'd be happier with one more win.

I tend not to worry too much about what happens in the media or here these days. AFL is becoming too exposed with not enough quality in just about any medium you choose to enjoy.

Interestingly I heard Dan Lonnergan on the ABC comment about the Bulldogs that "this is just about the longest rebuild of all time" this morning. It made me think bugger it, if that guy can get a job spruiking that shit as genuine commentary then there's not much point in engaging anymore.

I think we're on the right track, but I don't think the AFL or enough of our supporters will stay the journey with us. I look at the fixture, the glorification of the big teams and the fact we seem to always eat a fat one on game days and it makes me nervous about our future. Memberships don't really mean a lot right now, the tide is against us and I've woken up to it.

[Remi Moses]

I don't mind Dan as a rule, but he just spruiks nonsense about the Dogs.
As I've said before there is so much dross around now it's getting hard to find decent footy talk.

[LostDoggy]

Great thread concept and a fantastic point for discussion.

It really is hard, riding the roller coaster. Is it that we are under performing now, or did we simply read too much into those last six games due to our desperation for some shining light at the end of the tunnel?


We've been alright IMO, most of the attacks have been made when people have been emotional on match days. Comments today have been noticeably more balanced

Yeah, I usually have a rule of no woof after a loss, but have broken it a few times this year already.

[westdog54]

I'd be happier with one more win.

I tend not to worry too much about what happens in the media or here these days. AFL is becoming too exposed with not enough quality in just about any medium you choose to enjoy.

Interestingly I heard Dan Lonnergan on the ABC comment about the Bulldogs that "this is just about the longest rebuild of all time" this morning. It made me think bugger it, if that guy can get a job spruiking that shit as genuine commentary then there's not much point in engaging anymore.

I think we're on the right track, but I don't think the AFL or enough of our supporters will stay the journey with us. I look at the fixture, the glorification of the big teams and the fact we seem to always eat a fat one on game days and it makes me nervous about our future. Memberships don't really mean a lot right now, the tide is against us and I've woken up to it.

This really is starting to become a stark reality, isn't it?

Throw in the unknown variable of a new CEO starting next year, who may or may not be in favour of equalisation/supporting the 18 team model, and all of a sudden we're under great threat.

Not that this should sway Macca in the way he wants to coach, however we need something to inspire the masses that were attending in 2008,9 and 10 to return. Narrow losses with poor developmental decisions being made in-game aren't helpful.

[LostDoggy]

Fact is if Morris and Rough weren't injured we would be 4 and 2 and currently well entrenched in the 8.

I know every team has had injuries, but we just don't have the depth of the better teams to cover these type of players.

It's just extremely frustarting that we have been in winning positions the last couple of weeks (and against North) and just haven't been able to convert opportunities and limit our stupid mistakes to get the job done.

Round 1 aside we have been in every game this year. A Vast improvement on last year.

[Mantis]

Not that this should sway Macca in the way he wants to coach, however we need something to inspire the masses that were attending in 2008,9 and 10 to return. Narrow losses with poor developmental decisions being made in-game aren't helpful.

It doesn't help that these losses have been against teams that were/are clearly struggling.

To Lonergan's point... It is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel... I could see it at the end of the 2013 season, but it isn't evident right now.

[soupman]

That's been the big positive for me. Aside from the West Coast game, we have been in every game we have played and despite playing like crap for most of those losses, if we capitalised on some of the chances we created we may have pinched a couple more wins.

[Ozza]

Footy is a fickle game.

A couple of points the other way against Richmond and it would have been a disaster, but instead its a great day.
A couple of moment go our way against the Crows and we win, but instead its a disaster and there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

There has been nothing I've seen this year that has dampened my optimism for, say, 2016.

I will be interested to see how we hold up when playing the very top teams, how long we are able to stay in games for.

I always suspected that last years strong finish would set some unrealistic expectations from supporters - who just assume we would be seeing a far better win/loss ratio automatically. I still feel that by the end of the season, we will have won more matches than last season - and the list will be in good shape.

[westdog54]

It doesn't help that these losses have been against teams that were/are clearly struggling.

To Lonergan's point... It is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel... I could see it at the end of the 2013 season, but it isn't evident right now.

Definitely agree with the first point. At half time we had the Crows on toast and really blew it. Carlton were under enormous pressure, and realistically were ripe for the picking. Even GWS had us panicked for 3 quarters until we finally pulled it together.

As far as the second point, there will be some that are always going to be selective as to what good or bad signs they see, and for whatever reason Lonergan seems to fit that category.

The light is certainly a lot dimmer at the moment but as Jaytee said we are missing our best two defenders. Thats always going to be tough to cover, and when you are in development mode as we are its going to be a massive struggle. In addition we have Smith and Hrovat to return in the coming weeks, and Grant, who many, including myself, see as playing a massive part in our late run home last year, is still some weeks away. Who knows if he'll be able to muster what he did in the last month of last season. I'm confident he can.

Lost amongst the gloom of the Stringer/Jones experiments and Tom Young's struggles has been the resurgence of Wood and Picken. Wood has punched above his weight since coming back into the side and performed ably, and Picko has made me eat my words with some of his performances. If he fails to shut down Betts on Sunday we really get blown away in the last.

[Remi Moses]

Fact is if Morris and Rough weren't injured we would be 4 and 2 and currently well entrenched in the 8.

I know every team has had injuries, but we just don't have the depth of the better teams to cover these type of players.

It's just extremely frustarting that we have been in winning positions the last couple of weeks (and against North) and just haven't been able to convert opportunities and limit our stupid mistakes to get the job done.

Round 1 aside we have been in every game this year. A Vast improvement on last year.

Taylor Walker and a few others are big outs for the Ravens
It's just a case of reducing those periods of ineptness.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

I agree that some supporters can be very reactive in the 24 hours after a loss. Generally i try and stay away from any forums for a day or two. I always find it amazing that after a close win some fans can find no wrong yet a close loss and it's armageddon.

Given our good injury run and favourable draw so far, i would have probably liked to have seen another win on the board. I just don't want to see too many of those periods in a game where we let teams get on a roll.

[bulldogtragic]

I might not be clear. Allow me another go.

If those lauded last year as geniuses, exceptional and/or outstanding in their chosen role at the club for the end to last year.

Are they equally responsible for criticism after the start to this season.

It seems applause and criticism are not quite level. I can't imagine the club resigning BMac or anyone else this week.

[jeemak]

I might not be clear. Allow me another go.

If those lauded last year as geniuses, exceptional and/or outstanding in their chosen role at the club for the end to last year.

Are they equally responsible for criticism after the start to this season.

It seems applause and criticism are not quite level. I can't imagine the club resigning BMac or anyone else this week.

What a lot of rubbish. You're smart enough to know one week doesn't make a difference one way or another.

[bulldogtragic]

What a lot of rubbish. You're smart enough to know one week doesn't make a difference one way or another.

Perhaps i've been inelegant with my question. What i'm asking is not about week to week. I'm asking if the last 6 weeks from last year received the fan fair and reception it did, and the those responsible for it get that response, does it apply in reverse with the bad start this year? I.e. if the coach is credited for late season form 2013, does he get credited for this seasons quite poor start?

[GVGjr]

Perhaps i've been inelegant with my question. What i'm asking is not about week to week. I'm asking if the last 6 weeks from last year received the fan fair and reception it did, and the those responsible for it get that response, does it apply in reverse with the bad start this year? I.e. if the coach is credited for late season form 2013, does he get credited for this seasons quite poor start?

I thought the players got the credit for form displayed late last year? It made a huge difference having Grant up and about during that 7 week period.

I'm also not sure I agree that we have a poor start to the season. We haven't won games in the last 3 weeks but I think we are vastly more competitive than the same time last year.

[chef]

Maybe some fans are just expecting too much.

[bulldogtragic]

I thought the players got the credit for form displayed late last year? It made a huge difference having Grant up and about during that 7 week period.

I'm also not sure I agree that we have a poor start to the season. We haven't won games in the last 3 weeks but I think we are vastly more competitive than the same time last year.
You should be a politician G. :)

Yes, compared to where we were against say the GCS last year, it's better. Compared to the footy over the immediate rounds before this year, I'm not convinced the results are such to say we've progressed upon the last rounds of 2013.

Macca got a contract extension so he got some credit for things. If that didn't occur I couldn't see the club extending seven rounds in at the moment. I recall a lot of comments in the media as to Macca said we'd have to wait until the last part of 2013 to see the results of his plan, and in turn the results vindicated the plan for this group. We've gone backwards from the team that pushed Sydney & Hawthorn and other wins late last year, there's been some bad match day coaching this year yet it seems Macca or anyone else who got the back slapping last year seem sacrosanct when our team is clearly not performing with some bad match day coaching.

[soupman]

Macca got a contract extension so he got some credit for things. If that didn't occur I couldn't see the club extending seven rounds in at the moment. I recall a lot of comments in the media as to Macca said we'd have to wait until the last part of 2013 to see the results of his plan, and in turn the results vindicated the plan for this group. We've gone backwards from the team that pushed Sydney & Hawthorn and other wins late last year, there's been some bad match day coaching this year yet it seems Macca or anyone else who got the back slapping last year seem sacrosanct when our team is clearly not performing with some bad match day coaching.

Have we gone backwards much though, if at all?

It's easy to say we were better in that period in hindsight, and compared to the rest of that season that form was premiership winning form, but I'm not sure we are much worse atm.

During that period we were competitive with pretty much everybody. We have been this year as well.
We played a hard contested game that in patches during matches has a good outside spread. The same as this year.
We were the better side or at least as good as the opposition for at least a half in almost all the matches last year. Same as this year.
We would have a bad patch or quarter in matches last year that kept the opposition in the match. We are definitely seeing that this year.

The biggest change for mine is that last year our forwardline in those last few rounds was hard to match up, fairly effective and largely took it's chances meaning we capitalised slightly more on our good play. This season we have missed alot of opportunities to really take advantage of our good patches and have also seen a very ineffective forwardline at times (ie. last night) which has probably been the biggest difference between the two periods of form.

I'm hoping that when Griffen finally resumes normal service, Stringer gets his confidence back, Grant returns to the side and maybe Campbell or Dickson stand up like they did last year we will take a big step forward in this area and surpass where we were last year.

[GVGjr]

You should be a politician G. :)

Macca got a contract extension so he got some credit for things. If that didn't occur I couldn't see the club extending seven rounds in at the moment.
I might be mistaken here but I think Macca got the extension before we had that good spell. Either way, I do think we are playing better than 12 months ago. I get why everyone is frustrated and if we lose to the Dees there will be all he'll to pay but to solely focus on the coach or the MC for the teams performance I just haven't seen enough wrong yet to jump on board.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I might be mistaken here but I think Macca got the extension before we had that good spell. Either way, I do think we are playing better than 12 months ago. I get why everyone is frustrated and if we lose to the Dees there will be all he'll to pay but to solely focus on the coach or the MC for the teams performance I just haven't seen enough wrong yet to jump on board.

We still had too many poor players yesterday including Jones JJ Talia Williams Stevens and Dickson. Crameri also had a bad day. We still need to improve our manpower. The return of Roughead Campbell Smith and Grant plus the inclusion of Honeychurch and Roberts should make us a more competitive unit. Our forward line yesterday apart from Dahlhaus was almost non existent with 3 Essendon defenders amassing 69 disposals between them. Macca has done a good job to get Wood and Higgins back on track with both playing well this year but we still lack penetration up forward which continues to be our bogey.

[bulldogtragic]

I bump this again with a more specific question.

Last year many at our club were lauded for success.

Why arent those same people more heavily scrutinised after our horrid near first half of the season.

The most obvious question, is if we were not in such a hurry to extend Macca's contract, would we have done it this season by now?

Honestly, apart from 6 weeks last year we've shown very little signs that things are going north since Macca and his team took over. I think it's fair to be asking why Wallis & Jones are in neutral, Howard and keeping him this year was a mistake, and we should have cut into the list harder. And while I'm asking questions, has anyone seen anything from Darley and Fuller to suggest they deserve a spot on our list.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well BT at least you are passionate and persistent.

While I am disappointed with the results thus far, I really feel that we are close to a breakthrough.

We really should have gotten over the line against Adelaide and Essendon. We also had chances against Carlton despite being putrid for the entire first half.

If we had nailed 2 of those 3 the momentum would have changed in our play and the concerns from our opponents.

Our effort against Fremantle was very good apart from failing to convert. We did make some real skill errors at crucial stages as well. Murph missed (I think) Dahlhaus (well in the clear) with a kick that just dragged him back to the nearest Freo opponent late in the game and there were several such instances.

Some of that play comes off and the confidence of the group will rise enormously.

Confidence is infectious and I see it as a big reason for Port Adelaide's rise. When it clicks we will improve.

This week is the MUST win against Brisbane.

[bulldogtragic]

Well BT at least you are passionate and persistent.

While I am disappointed with the results thus far, I really feel that we are close to a breakthrough.

We really should have gotten over the line against Adelaide and Essendon. We also had chances against Carlton despite being putrid for the entire first half.

If we had nailed 2 of those 3 the momentum would have changed in our play and the concerns from our opponents.

Our effort against Fremantle was very good apart from failing to convert. We did make some real skill errors at crucial stages as well. Murph missed (I think) Dahlhaus (well in the clear) with a kick that just dragged him back to the nearest Freo opponent late in the game and there were several such instances.

Some of that play comes off and the confidence of the group will rise enormously.

Confidence is infectious and I see it as a big reason for Port Adelaide's rise. When it clicks we will improve.

This week is the MUST win against Brisbane.

I think a loss to Brisbane this week is worst case scenario, so accordingly i'm not going to think it conceivable. :)

That said, if it happens, it's 100 times worse than the loss to Melbourne last year at roughly the same point of the season. Just like last year, our talent craps all over theirs, so it just can't happen.