* First Round Draft picks to come in

[bulldogsfight]

We had 8 first rounders not playing

Is this a ray of hope of a bright future
or
bad drafting, bad development, bad team selection or bad luck

Grant
Williams
Smith
Hrovat
Wallis
Cordy
Bontempelli
Howard

[The Doctor]

I'm looking forward to seeing Hrovat back in the senior side. I think he may well become the best of this lot.

You can't help injuries which has affected most of them so a bit of bad luck there. Only Cordy and Howard have proven themselves incapable at the senior level so that is certainly poor drafting.

[LostDoggy]

I'm looking forward to seeing Hrovat back in the senior side. I think he may well become the best of this lot.

You can't help injuries which has affected most of them so a bit of bad luck there. Only Cordy and Howard have proven themselves incapable at the senior level so that is certainly poor drafting.


Agree with all of this, Hrovat looks silky smooth, pray that Bonts continues his upward spiral.

Howard is still the most dissapointing drafting decision on that list. '09 was one of the deepest running drafts in the last decade, and we took a speculative pick at best.....should have been a third rounder! Easy in retrospect but this decision was wrong before, during and after, anyone for Nat Fyfe at 20?

[LostDoggy]

Agree with all of this, Hrovat looks silky smooth, pray that Bonts continues his upward spiral.

Howard is still the most dissapointing drafting decision on that list. '09 was one of the deepest running drafts in the last decade, and we took a speculative pick at best.....should have been a third rounder! Easy in retrospect but this decision was wrong before, during and after, anyone for Nat Fyfe at 20?

That's one of the most popular and repeated posts on this forum MCL :)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We had 8 first rounders not playing

Is this a ray of hope of a bright future
or
bad drafting, bad development, bad team selection or bad luck

Grant
Williams
Smith
Hrovat
Wallis
Cordy
Bontempelli
Howard

My opinion:

Grant - Bad drafting if compared to Dangerfield etc. but if he reproduces his form of late last year, he will be a very handy player moving forward.
Williams - Last year on the list IMO. Had/has talent, more so as a forward, but his body has killed his career. Unlucky.
Smith - We miss him. Will be a good inclusion.
Hrovat - Rate him very highly, will be a good inclusion.
Wallis - Jury still out - needs more strings to his bow to make it.
Cordy - Won't make it.
Bontempelli - Early signs are good but not realistic to expect 'side improving' performances until another 1-2 years. Should get a few games though.
Howard - Won't make it. Absolutely woeful selection.

Overall, it's a mixed bag. Grant and Wallis still have time but are far from convincing - we really need both to come on very quickly/soon. Cordy/Howard are busts. Smith/Hrovat/Bontempelli look like being strong contributors moving forward but it's hard to estimate how much of a better side they'll make us in the immediate future.

[Greystache]

My opinion:

Grant - Bad drafting if compared to Dangerfield etc. but if he reproduces his form of late last year, he will be a very handy player moving forward.
Williams - Last year on the list IMO. Had/has talent, more so as a forward, but his body has killed his career. Unlucky.
Smith - We miss him. Will be a good inclusion.
Hrovat - Rate him very highly, will be a good inclusion.
Wallis - Jury still out - needs more strings to his bow to make it.
Cordy - Won't make it.
Bontempelli - Early signs are good but not realistic to expect 'side improving' performances until another 1-2 years. Should get a few games though.
Howard - Won't make it. Absolutely woeful selection.

Overall, it's a mixed bag. Grant and Wallis still have time but are far from convincing - we really need both to come on very quickly/soon. Cordy/Howard are busts. Smith/Hrovat/Bontempelli look like being strong contributors moving forward but it's hard to estimate how much of a better side they'll make us in the immediate future.

Good analysis TBB, agree with all of it.

Grant was bad drafting on two levels, the Dangerfield one you mentioned, but also in the fact that a player of his height and build was never going to be able to play the role at AFL level we were drafting him for. If he can find consistency and become a handy player then that's at least a good consolation, and let's face it our preferred choice was Cale Morton and he's utterly shithouse!

Smith looks a pretty safe bet. Hrovat is a bit of a concern with such regular soft tissue injuries, hopefully it doesn't limit his potential. Bontempelli is still very raw so it'll be hard to tell where his ceiling is for a few years, but early signs are promising.

[Axe Man]

Whilst Wallis is technically a first round pick really it's Wallis and Libba for picks 22 and 41 - you would take that every day of the week. It's academic as to which was selected at which pick. I still think Wallis is more likely than not to have at least a solid career.

Howard is the only one that should be classified as a complete blunder in my book. I think there would have been quite a few other clubs that would have been happy to take Cordy at around that mark at the time.

[craigsahibee]

Whilst Wallis is technically a first round pick really it's Wallis and Libba for picks 22 and 41 - you would take that every day of the week. It's academic as to which was selected at which pick. I still think Wallis is more likely than not to have at least a solid career.

Howard is the only one that should be classified as a complete blunder in my book. I think there would have been quite a few other clubs that would have been happy to take Cordy at around that mark at the time.

St Kilda nominated that they would take him with their first pick which meant we had to use our next pick in the draft after their's (our first) to secure him.

[lemmon]

Smith looks the best off that list with Hrovat also important. As someone who panned the Smith selection it's stunning how quickly he has become an important cog of the midfield. We've missed so much of his contested work and aggression already this year. Think he may end up being one of those heart and soul Hayes/Bolton/Cross types

[LostDoggy]

St Kilda nominated that they would take him with their first pick which meant we had to use our next pick in the draft after their's (our first) to secure him.

The bitter irony........Ayce playing up in Bendigo whilst that eventual pick St Kilda took Tom Lynch carves us apart at the dome!

[Twodogs]

The irony, is, as you say, bitter indeed MCL.

[bornadog]

Grant - Bad drafting if compared to Dangerfield etc.

You can't say that, 9 clubs passed on Dangerfield, it happens in every draft. I can pick a champion from every draft that is a late pick. Chris Grant was 101.



Howard - Won't make it. Absolutely woeful selection. .

Very puzzling Dalrmple went for Howard. Other than that Dalrmple has been pretty good since.

[soupman]

You can't say that, 9 clubs passed on Dangerfield, it happens in every draft. I can pick a champion from every draft that is a late pick. Chris Grant was 101.


Absolutely. And Dangerfield was a shock selection at 10 anyway.

[LostDoggy]

Absolutely. And Dangerfield was a shock selection at 10 anyway.

We did do alright at pick 19 as well mind you.........until those *add as many expletives as you like* pigs up in Blacktown stole him from us!

[Mofra]

My take:

Grant - good for half a season, very interesting to see how he comes back

Williams - I've lost faith. Not entirely his fault with injury, but I really think it's time to cut our losses

Smith - Absolute gun and the type of player his teammates must love playing with. Will be a beast for us.

Hrovat - Alright, unpopular opinion time (noting he was an early second round pick wasn't he?) - did we really need to pick him up given what we need on our list? He looks good - but Hawks nabbed O'Brien with the pick we downgraded to, and although talls take longer we are in desperate need for decent developing talls

Wallis - much like Grant, apromising half a season but evidence this year is that he needs more work to become consistent

Cordy - I'm officially off the bandwagon. Worse injury history than Williams, never gots a clean run at it so development is way off.

Bontempelli - Moves well, seems coachable

Howard - must have compormising pictures of Jason McCartney to have managed a 2014 contract. Sorry, I just don't see it.



At this stage I see Grant & Smith as best 22 selections when fit - all the others are up in the air at best

[bornadog]

My take:

Grant - good for half a season, very interesting to see how he comes back

Williams - I've lost faith. Not entirely his fault with injury, but I really think it's time to cut our losses

Smith - Absolute gun and the type of player his teammates must love playing with. Will be a beast for us.

Hrovat - Alright, unpopular opinion time (noting he was an early second round pick wasn't he?) - did we really need to pick him up given what we need on our list? He looks good - but Hawks nabbed O'Brien with the pick we downgraded to, and although talls take longer we are in desperate need for decent developing talls

Wallis - much like Grant, apromising half a season but evidence this year is that he needs more work to become consistent

Cordy - I'm officially off the bandwagon. Worse injury history than Williams, never gots a clean run at it so development is way off.

Bontempelli - Moves well, seems coachable

Howard - must have compormising pictures of Jason McCartney to have managed a 2014 contract. Sorry, I just don't see it.



At this stage I see Grant & Smith as best 22 selections when fit - all the others are up in the air at best

You can't say Bont is up in the air at best - give him a go?

Hrovat in my opinion is one of the better performed from last years recruits. Not sure if you rate Hunter, but Hrovat is better.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

O'Brien looks OK but he reminds me of a Gunston/Grant type in that he will never be the physically imposing, big key forward that so many sides need. For Hawthorn, he'll probably carve out a good career as that third tall. It's not to say we don't need a player like that mind you, but we do have a few "third tall" types - and I would rather Hrovat, much rather.

Like Grey I do have concerns over his soft tissue injuries, but on pure ability/attitude I think Hrovat is right up there. It's disappointing he hasn't yet had a consistent run at it to prove his worth.

I suggest watching last year's match v Essendon. Hrovat was outstanding.

[Greystache]

O'Brien looks OK but he reminds me of a Gunston/Grant type in that he will never be the physically imposing, big key forward that so many sides need. For Hawthorn, he'll probably carve out a good career as that third tall. It's not to say we don't need a player like that mind you, but we do have a few "third tall" types - and I would rather Hrovat, much rather.

Exactly what I think too TBB. O'Brien looks your classic Scott Clayton KPF. A bit short, very skinny, and is somehow supposed to develop into a physically imposing gorilla forward. I'm not upset we skipped him, he might become a good 3rd tall, but it's the number 1 and 2 tall we've never been able to find. 5 possession in total in his first 2 games btw.

[chef]

Grant - Bad drafting if compared to Dangerfield etc. but if he reproduces his form of late last year, he will be a very handy player moving forward.

Wasn't it Henderson or Grant we were tossing up, Lauchie would be very handy for us now.

[Greystache]

Wasn't it Henderson or Grant we were tossing up, Lauchie would be very handy for us now.

Yeah, if I remember correctly we weren't sure if he could play the role of the number 1 forward, so we chose the short skinny kid instead :rolleyes:

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Doesn't the story go something like...

"How do you feel about being the number one target in a forward line?"

LH: I see myself as a contributor (or something along those lines)

JG: I want to be the man.

[chef]

Yeah, if I remember correctly we weren't sure if he could play the role of the number 1 forward, so we chose the short skinny kid instead :rolleyes:

Apparently he couldn't kick over a jam tin too:eek:

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Our inability to draft good tall talent is quite mind boggling.

Aside from Roughead, Minson and Lake were the only other two worthy of mentioning in the last 10 or so years (Darcy/Grant before that).

[Greystache]

Our inability to draft good tall talent is quite mind boggling.

Aside from Roughead, Minson and Lake were the only other two worthy of mentioning in the last 10 or so years (Darcy/Grant before that).

In the 10 years he was our recruiter Scott Clayton only recruited 2 players over 190cm that played 100 games. And one of those (Lake) was just a lucky toss of a coin selection because he liked his life story. Roughead looks the only certainty to add to that list. Like you said, mind boggling.

[bornadog]

In the 10 years he was our recruiter Scott Clayton only recruited 2 players over 190cm that played 100 games. And one of those (Lake) was just a lucky toss of a coin selection because he liked his life story. Roughead looks the only certainty to add to that list. Like you said, mind boggling.

How many 200 plus gamers has Clayton recruited? Probably more than any other recuiter in history.

Talls are very hit and miss, take a look at every other team and we are not that different. Sometimes it is just a matter of luck if they turn out to be any good because they mature much later than other players. Sometimes injury kills their career (Williams), sometimes their body just doesn't grow like it should or they become awkward as they put on weight (Cordy). That is not the recruiters fault. They can only pick best available at the time.

We still have Minson, Roughead, Jones, Cordy and Grant from the Clayton era and add Lake and Clayton could still be a hero with talls.

[chef]

Wasn't he very hit and miss with first round picks?

[Greystache]

How many 200 plus gamers has Clayton recruited? Probably more than any other recuiter in history.

Talls are very hit and miss, take a look at every other team and we are not that different. Sometimes it is just a matter of luck if they turn out to be any good because they mature much later than other players. Sometimes injury kills their career (Williams), sometimes their body just doesn't grow like it should or they become awkward as they put on weight (Cordy). That is not the recruiters fault. They can only pick best available at the time.

We still have Minson, Roughead, Jones, Cordy and Grant from the Clayton era and add Lake and Clayton could still be a hero with talls.

That's an appalling performance, luck is a rubbish cop out. He picked 3 talls inside the top 6 and only one has the ability to be a half decent (Grant) and he still has big questions over him. A big footy poster could have had as many hits over 10 years just looking at phantom drafts. This guy is a paid professional.

Minson is one of his 2 already counted, Roughead is a good chance be a long term quality player, Cordy needs a miracle to be average, Williams is lucky to still be on the list, and Jones could go either way. He has absolutely no chance of being a hero with the talls we have left from his legacy.

We are still paying the price for an incredibly long period of inept recruiting of tall players, his obsession with skinny athletes should have been stamped out in the mid 2000's when it was obvious he was getting them wrong.

[LostDoggy]

Hrovat - Alright, unpopular opinion time (noting he was an early second round pick wasn't he?) - did we really need to pick him up given what we need on our list? He looks good - but Hawks nabbed O'Brien with the pick we downgraded to, and although talls take longer we are in desperate need for decent developing
st[/QUOTE]

Semantics but yeh he was still a 1st rounder. The first round went pretty deep because of compo picks.

[GVGjr]

Hrovat - Alright, unpopular opinion time (noting he was an early second round pick wasn't he?) - did we really need to pick him up given what we need on our list? He looks good - but Hawks nabbed O'Brien with the pick we downgraded to, and although talls take longer we are in desperate need for decent developing talls



I think Hrovat possess some excellent qualities that we need at the club. At the time I was desperate for us to target a key position player but since his arrival I'm now convinced we did the right thing. I get what you are saying about us really needing talls but I can't fault this selection.

The development of Stringer, Macrae and Hrovat from that draft year is very important for the club especially when you add Hunter to the mix.

Smith showed some great signs last year and he will be a welcome addition in the next week or so

[1eyedog]

Our inability to draft good tall talent is quite mind boggling.

Aside from Roughead, Minson and Lake were the only other two worthy of mentioning in the last 10 or so years (Darcy/Grant before that).

How many other clubs have more than two really good talls over that time span though? Not many.

[bornadog]

, his obsession with skinny athletes should have been stamped out in the mid 2000's when it was obvious he was getting them wrong.

Yep Minson, Roughead and Jones are all skinny athletes

[Greystache]

Yep Minson, Roughead and Jones are all skinny athletes

And that's all we've got from 10 years of trying. Thank you for illustrating my point perfectly.

[Mofra]

You can't say Bont is up in the air at best - give him a go?
I didn't - "Moves well, seems coachable" isn't "up in the air"

[Mofra]

Talls are very hit and miss, take a look at every other team and we are not that different. Sometimes it is just a matter of luck if they turn out to be any good because they mature much later than other players. Sometimes injury kills their career (Williams), sometimes their body just doesn't grow like it should or they become awkward as they put on weight (Cordy). That is not the recruiters fault. They can only pick best available at the time.
Some teams take more talls to compensate for the fact that not all will come on.
Swans took or traded for a nunber of talls: Goodes, Richards, O'Lochlan, Grundy, Leo Barry, Hall, Reid, and mroe recently Buddy & Tippett
Hawks didn't rest on just Roughy & Buddy - Thorp & Dowler, Shoenmakers, trading for Lake & Gibson who plays tall, trading for rucks including Hale who plays forward
Bombers have a number of talls - any of Carlisle, Hooker & Hurley would probably be playing CHB for us right now if they were on our list, noting Bellco & Ryder can play forward when not rucking
Even the Tigers nailed it with Jack, and Rance is doing ok despite the odd shocker - trading for Carlisle, took Vickery who Clayton was really into (!), trading in a number of rucks, even the guy who was packaged up to Brissie was more servcieable than many of our talls.


The top teams had just as many misses as we do with talls - but they do take more of them which means the cupboard isn't bare.

[Happy Days]

JG: I want to be the man.

He is the man


Hrovat - Alright, unpopular opinion time (noting he was an early second round pick wasn't he?) - did we really need to pick him up given what we need on our list? He looks good - but Hawks nabbed O'Brien with the pick we downgraded to, and although talls take longer we are in desperate need for decent developing
st

I said this at the time but I don't think it's relevant now that we've seen Hrovat play. His strengths as advertised are not necessarily the strengths he has; he's a far better kick, far quicker and way more outside than was presented around here. I think he's different to what we have and embodies something we need, he just needs to stop getting injured.

O'Brien isn't good.

Edit: Sorry didn't realise this was Mofra's post, not yours MCL.

[LostDoggy]

I love the Bairnsdale Bullock, and we need him back, but shit he's a horrible kick of the football :)

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-04-28/vfl-clay-dominates-in-Bendigo

[stefoid]

Bonts reminds me of Adam Goodes. Fingers crossed.