2014 Game Day Round 11 - Western Bulldogs V Fremantle

[Eastdog]

Margin: Dogs by 2 points (Always tip us regardless on how we are going)
First Goal: Dahlhaus
Best On Ground: Libba

[bulldogtragic]

Dogs by 45 points
Minson 1st Goal & BOG

Thanks for starting these threads Eastie, it's not unnoticed! :)

[Eastdog]

Dogs by 45 points
Minson 1st Goal & BOG

Thanks for starting these threads Eastie, it's not unnoticed! :)

No worries BT. Would love a 45 point Dog win :)

[bornadog]

Dogs by 100

BOG: Wallis

First Goal Roughead

:D

[Eastdog]

Dogs by 100

BOG: Wallis

First Goal Roughead

:D

Imagine the headline in the paper the next day :D

[bulldogtragic]

Dogs by 100

BOG: Wallis

First Goal Roughead

:D

You amuse me :)

[Greystache]

Fremantle by 25- Both teams scoring under 70 points
BOG- Libba
First goal- Dahlhaus

[boydogs]

Dockers by 61
BOG Libba
First Goal Dahlhaus

[Remi Moses]

Freo by 31 pts ( we'll kick 8 goals)
BOG Libba
1st Goal Luke D

[Twodogs]

Dockers by 7 points
First goal. Fletcher Roberts.
BOG Murph.

[Ghost Dog]

Dockers by a fair bit (40+)
Us to put up a fair fight
First Goal Luke
BOG Libba

[AndrewP6]

Shockers by 51 after we get some late junk time goals
First goal Dahlhaus
BOG Griff

[F'scary]

A prayer for this match:

Our Minson, whose disposal skills are awful,
May thee be on target!
And Stevens, Picken and Boyd too.
Give us this match a 30+ possession game,
Griffen, Libba, Macrae, Cooney & Higgins.
And may Wallis' kicking have penetration
lest the coach penetrate him by foot.
For thine is the match, to be won by skill,
So do not just crack in but learn to crack out as well,
Forever and ever, Amen.

[whythelongface]

Dogs by 7 in a low scoring affair 81-74
First goal: Dahlhaus
BOG: Wallis

[bornadog]

Will Hrovat be sub?

[F'scary]

Will Hrovat be sub?

Hope he gets a full game. It would piss me off if he is the sub. Gia can sub with Bontempelli

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 8
crammers 1st goal
boyd best on

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Freo by 35 points
First goal Cooney
BOG: Boyd

[firstdogonthemoon]

Freo by 48
First Goal - Tom Williams
BOG - Libba

[GVGjr]

There is some speculation that a late change is in the wind. Williams replaced by Stringer?

[bornadog]

There is some speculation that a late change is in the wind. Williams replaced by Stringer?

Where are you hearing from?

[GVGjr]

Where are you hearing from?

Received a text message from a mate this morning. Not sure of the original source.

[bornadog]

Received a text message from a mate this morning. Not sure of the original source.

BOYD out HOWARD in - confirmed

GIA - Sub

[Happy Days]

BOYD out HOWARD in - confirmed

GIA - Sub

Horrible news. How can we have Boyd out and replace him with an even worse kick?

[bulldogtragic]

If Gia fails as the sub again I will give up, because my view of this clearly not working is a figment of my imagination.... :(

[azabob]

If Gia fails as the sub again I will give up, because my view of this clearly not working is a figment of my imagination.... :(

Is it Gia failing as the sub or the mc failing, in your eyes?

[azabob]

Horrible news. How can we have Boyd out and replace him with an even worse kick?

Jokes on you. Your assuming Howard will get the footy.

[GVGjr]

BOYD out HOWARD in - confirmed

GIA - Sub

Interesting change. Good luck to Howard today

[bulldogtragic]

Is it Gia failing as the sub or the mc failing, in your eyes?

MC and coach. Nothing against Gia at all. Having a 32 year old slowish forward pocket as a sub, who can't play any other role, isn't working and it's predictable to coach against. I don't get it, I just don't. If he's best 21 play him on the ground, all game. As a strategy and match day tactic... Arghhhhh... I don't see what were trying to do.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Freo by what ever. who cares
BOG Libba
1st Gaol, Griff

[Happy Days]

Jokes on you. Your assuming Howard will get the footy.

But I thought he was an accumulator now?

I don't want him to play ever this sucks. Hopefully he makes me look like an idiot but come on like that's happening.

[LostDoggy]

Jokes on you. Your assuming Howard will get the footy.

:D lol

[LostDoggy]

Dogs by 11
BOG Libba
First goal Bontempelli

[GVGjr]

Jack Redpath talked to the Players Sponsors group. Confident he will get a call up somewhere down the track. I will expand on this later

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Freo by 35 points
First goal Cooney
BOG: Boyd

With Boyd out I change my BOG to Griffen

[F'scary]

BOYD out HOWARD in - confirmed



So Howard gets another chance to impress us with his alleged leg canon. Can't wait to see that.

[Chicago1]

At least with this early start(12.20am Sun here) I might stay up to listen to the first half unless we're getting slaughtered...

[AndrewP6]

Young and Cordy sitting up in the cheap seats near me.

[EasternWest]

Frustrating that we've basically dominated and they go coast to coast and score.

That being said, our intent is terrific and we look about as on as we've looked all year.

[LostDoggy]

Dominating again without reward.

[EasternWest]

Dominating again without reward.

We may just rue this lack of finishing later in the game if we maintain this intensity.

And as I type the Rat puts one into the man on the mark.

[LostDoggy]

We may just rue this lack of finishing later in the game if we maintain this intensity.

And as I type the Rat puts one into the man on the mark.

It's the same every week.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Disposal efficiency very good, which serves to highlight our problems even more clearly. We just make poor decisions and skill errors in important situations. In our case that is when we go inside 50.

[ReLoad]

Offside! He was offside!!!!! Oh wait......

[AndrewP6]

Frustrating as hell we can dominate overall play, yet go in down at qtr time.

[GVGjr]

How did Hrovat manage to kick into the man on the mark?

[GVGjr]

How many times this have we managed to let the opposition team kick the first and last goal of the first two quarters of the game?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Hrovat's suicide handball after his mark just cost us a goal. Did not even look to see what pressure he was putting the receiver under, who was only one metre away. Why, why, why?

[Happy Days]

This is offensive to watch.

Our decision making is garbage; what's the point of getting double the touches if you use them to put the other team in fantastic positions?

[whythelongface]

Frustrating as hell we can dominate overall play, yet go in down at qtr time.

Very frustrating. We should be up by 3 goals with the amount of possession we have had.

[GVGjr]

Hrovat's suicide handball after his mark just cost us a goal. Did not even look to see what pressure he was putting the receiver under, who was only one metre away. Why, why, why?

It has to be nerves or the pace of the game. He will bounce back

[F'scary]

Same old same old

[F'scary]

Any thoughts anyone on Howard's alleged leg canon in the 1st qtr?

[Greystache]

Dominated the quarter, kicked 1 goal, and go into the break 16 points down. Looks like a thrashing ahead.

We are just awful the way we play. There'd be lucky to be 10,000 people here and I can't see one who's enjoying the spectacle.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Lots to like about our control of the game for the majority of that Qtr. Unfortunately we are behind on the scoreboard which underlines our deficiencies in getting scoreboard reward.

[FrediKanoute]

Listening on radio on account of 10 month old not understanding that sleep is important especially after a boozy bbq.

Dogs not coping with the Dockers pressure. We went inside 50 18 times in that quarter compared to Dockers 7 and we are 16 points down. Have to capitalise!!

[ReLoad]

They are a class apart from us.

[FrediKanoute]

Heading out for a bacon sandwich. Dogs are toast.

[MrMahatma]

Frustrating. We're so close yet so far.

[Greystache]

Classic Howie!

Got a massive spray for not picking up Suban too!

[bulldogtragic]

Not angry, like when you fall out of love, that hollow feeling towards your once loved thing or person. That's about it for me. It feels like a chore or punishment watching games at the moment. All those who re-signed late last year, including Macca, should be very happy they did.

[bulldogtragic]

Bring on Gia, that will fix it.

[bulldogtragic]

1.7

Trip should've been 50 metres too.

[bulldogtragic]

Bontempelli, Hrovat & Macrae must play every week.

[Greystache]

Crameri is busting his arse, his work rate is outstanding.

At least he's giving the supporters something to appreciate.

[bulldogtragic]

1.8

Really?

[LostDoggy]

We are still in this we just need a goal.

[bulldogtragic]

Imagine Barlow (Werribee), Fyfe (Howard) and Mundy (Koops) were on our team?

[ReLoad]

Fletcher Roberts is stealing oxygen.

The ball has lived in our forward 50 and he has done nothing, not even a contest.

[bulldogtragic]

Anyone at the game, is Bonts playing CHF?

[bulldogtragic]

Is Williams trying to be a NFL punter, his kicks are high and short. He will re responsible for one of boys serious injuries, let alone turning it over.

[LostDoggy]

Anyone starting to think we need to go get a quality key forward.....

[FrediKanoute]

I am so sick of teams getting a roll and kicking multiple goals in a row against us. Not good enough. We have regressed from last year. Have to question whether the message is actually getting through.

[EasternWest]

Crameri is busting his arse, his work rate is outstanding.

At least he's giving the supporters something to appreciate.

And still he gets Bronx cheered when he marks one. Ridiculous.

[Greystache]

Etihad may lock the gates at halftime to keep the handful of attendees here for the second half.

[whythelongface]

It is certainly not through lack of effort that we are being beaten.

[LostDoggy]

Comforting that we are just s*%## then ..... :)

[EasternWest]

We are still in this we just need a goal.

Sorta hard to believe, but I kinda agree with you.


Is Williams trying to be a NFL punter, his kicks are high and short. He will re responsible for one of boys serious injuries, let alone turning it over.

He's working hard enough, and creating a target, but popping it up like that is killing us.

[GVGjr]

Crameri is busting his arse, his work rate is outstanding.

At least he's giving the supporters something to appreciate.

Agreed, he's done a fair bit of work that I don't think our supporters have noticed

[bulldogtragic]

Good that was average. And it's only half way over.

[F'scary]

Possible disaster! Howard may have injured his alleged leg canon.

[LostDoggy]

I'll say it again something tells me we are still in this. They are not working hard and if we keep at it...we will come.

Bring it Dogs.

[GVGjr]

Possible disaster! Howard may have injured his alleged leg canon.

Give him a spell will you.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Hard to believe that we are still in it with a shot. We are all over them apart from the score board, If we kicked straight and took our chances we would be up at half time.

Looking forward to rectifying the fade out last week and running over the top of the Dockers this week.

[lemmon]

Anyone starting to think we need to go get a quality key forward.....

They still need space, Tony Lockett wouldn't save us with this forward structure

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Really important the team takes heart from the fact that in all of the indicators apart from the scoreboard we are in front. We need two quick goals in the third Qtr to get some tangible reward to ensure we don't lose focus. On the other hand if Freo score one early I fear we could get blown away.

[LostDoggy]

At the game.
Positives -lot of players giving their all contest to contest.
Negatives- zero aggression with ball in hand (timid ball movement), predictable,
shocking forward line setup, very few players capable/confident enough to be damaging moving the ball forward by foot, no one making aggressive leads apart from crameri, freo just sitting back and waiting for us to timidly pop it in the air.

[GVGjr]

It is certainly not through lack of effort that we are being beaten.
Exactly, the youngsters have provided a mixed bag so far and hopefully they can lift in the 2nd half. We need the senior guys to set the example. What has been noticeable is the lack of depth with our kicking. If we converted a couple of those 45 metre shots it would look a lot better

[whythelongface]

I'll say it again something tells me we are still in this. They are not working hard and if we keep at it...we will come.

Bring it Dogs.

Whilst I would like to share your optimism I think we will get well beaten from here on end.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

They still need space, Tony Lockett wouldn't save us with this forward structure
Maybe, but with an effective tall we could at least create opportunities for ground level smalls. Williams and Fletcher so far getting pushed off or blocked from making a decent contest.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Agree, I hope them come out and spread quickly in the forward line. I think that we are sitting back and letting them dictate to us.

Tommy looking like he could be the difference up forward if they start sticking in the mitts. We still have upside in the small crumbers up forward

[whythelongface]

There are certainly some positive signs with Wallis, MaCrae, Bonts and Hrovrat all looking good at times throughout the first half. Thought Stevens has done alright as well.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Really need Griffen to find a way to make an impact. Crowley is killing his ability to get his hands on the ball. Griff is still working very hard, maybe he needs a team mate to help him out.

[LostDoggy]

Chip away dogs get within 3 by 3\4 time.

[PedroArvy]

This 3rd quarter is a big test. With momentum against us will we capitulate? I hppe the endevour stays there even if the forward set up is impotent. Let's see

[Greystache]

Too bad Campbell doesn't chase, a key forward that can take a mark would be helpful in trying to kick a goal.

I guess we need to get get our priorities straight, prevent them from hurting us after an ineffective forward 50m entry first, then if we can scrounge an occasional goal it's a bonus.

[LostDoggy]

I'll say it again something tells me we are still in this. They are not working hard and if we keep at it...we will come.

Bring it Dogs.

It goes back to a previous thread about the apathy towards the game at the moment. I'm sick of every week having to say if we get the next few we are still in it. Woke up today with no modicum of hope we could win today. Sorry for the negativity, blame it on the weather.

[GVGjr]

Bad miss by Murphy

[whythelongface]

That turn over by Wood just killed us.

[Webby]

4 goals TWELVE!!!!?????

Camaan, you've gotta be kidding me!!??

[whythelongface]

Coast to coast goal well done.

[FrediKanoute]

Wow...we scored a coast to coast goal. That has to be our first in about 3 years!

[LostDoggy]

Skitch em dogs!

[Webby]

There are certainly some positive signs with Wallis, MaCrae, Bonts and Hrovrat all looking good at times throughout the first half. Thought Stevens has done alright as well.

As morbid as we get as Dogs fan, that's really what this season's about.

[ReLoad]

Hrovat is a gun, he is a young Dane swan without the graffiti.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Here we come, We loo the better side and a little fitter than them.

Need Grif, Crameri & Gia to bring this one home

[GVGjr]

Hrovat is a gun, he is a young Dane swan without the graffiti.
He needs to add some depth and accuracy to his kicking but he will develop into a very good player

[whythelongface]

As morbid as we get as Dogs fan, that's really what this season's about.

Yep it is about the future. It is hard to watch and take at times but if we can address our weaknesses there is certainly a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

A great qtr. As per the 3rd qt, we need to get a couple of quick goals early to have a sniff. At least want to see us maintain the effort.

[whythelongface]

Where was the mark or free to Griff?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well that Pav goal probably does it. Poor work from Bontempelli. Had Gia free by a mile. Then Griff gets molested by Crowley.

[chef]

Bugger. Keep fighting doggies

[Greystache]

Classic Howie... Turned an out on the full into... Well an out on the full!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

What was Murph thinking with that handpass?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We saved our nap time Qtr for the 4th this week.

[F'scary]

Give him a spell will you.

Stop stalking me you crank.

[Ghost Dog]

I wish we would just try something a little different. Murphy should keep running to 50 and try and kick it over the zone.

[Dry Rot]

What was Murph thinking with that handpass?

Handball of death again?

[ledge]

I'm watching the last and we are atrocious, giving the ball up when we could be kicking easy goals, just rubbish disposal, we get the chances but butcher it big time, have we gone backwards ?

[Ghost Dog]

Now Dahlhaus got a goal exactly like that. Didn't go inside 50, rolled it through kicking well out.

[bulldogtragic]

Classic Howie... Turned an out on the full into... Well an out on the full!

That kick should be a criminal offence. Dead set. Macca says he is 100 game player, in that case I will be dead watching another 80 games like this from him. Enough is enough, I can't do it anymore. The thread about players we never warmed to might come back this week.

[Twodogs]

I'm still hoping we will win the total scoring shots stat. It's 24-21 ATM.

[bulldogtragic]

Expectations are low...

[bornadog]

We are a rabble pathetic and have gone backwards

[Mantis]

We just aren't much fun to watch anymore.

Sure we try hard, but our below par skill level, poor structure and lack of game sense means we don't have a lot going for us.

<15k today.. How many next week?

[bornadog]

67 inside 50 for 6 goals

[Sedat]

Ok, devil's advocate time. How can a coach and game plan be labelled anything other than a failure when a team wins inside 50's by 26, CP's by 14, UP's by 35 and then goes on to kick 6 measly goals in a entire match and never look like winning it?

I know we have some structural issues, but surely there is sufficient talent in our best 22 to actually maximise our assets far more effectively and efficiently. How can we be so unsuccessful despite winning so much ball? It is either poor coaching or poor playing group (or a combination thereof).

I ask the above without having seen the game today.

EDIT - we also won tbe clearances by a whopping 15. Such a statistical domination would normally result in a 10 goal win.

[bornadog]

Ok, devil's advocate time. How can a coach and game plan be labelled anything other than a failure when a team wins inside 50's by 26, CP's by 14, UP's by 35 and then goes on to kick 6 measly goals in a entire match and never look like winning it?

I know we have some structural issues, but surely there is sufficient talent in our best 22 to actually maximise our assets far more effectively and efficiently. How can we be so unsuccessful despite winning so much ball? It is either poor coaching or poor playing group (or a combination thereof).

I ask the above without having seen the game today.


poor coaching and poor players

[GVGjr]

poor coaching and poor players
And the problem with the coaching is?
There was a time you held everyone to account for the type of critical but sweeping statement you have just made

[chef]

poor coaching and poor players

Not today, it was all at the feet of the players.

[LostDoggy]

Was the football on today?

[jeemak]

The ball use from our supposedly good players was disgraceful today.

We do not respect the football, and have no composure at all.

I thought there was sufficient effort, though it's really had to score when every player is in your forward half of the ground. I hate Ross Lyon's approach, and I hope he never coaches a team to a premiership. He doesn't deserve it.

[lemmon]

The ball use from our supposedly good players was disgraceful today.

We do not respect the football, and have no composure at all.

I thought there was sufficient effort, though it's really had to score when every player is in your forward half of the ground. I hate Ross Lyon's approach, and I hope he never coaches a team to a premiership. He doesn't deserve it.
Is it so different to our style?

[jeemak]

Is it so different to our style?

Ha, probably not. They seem to be the most extreme at it.

[LostDoggy]

At least we played 4 quarters....it wasn't sexy.....but it was there.

Jones and Grant come on down....

[ReLoad]

I think today we were pretty much outfoxed in the coaches box, if you look at the way Freo scored all their goals we had nobody down back, guys like Fletcher Roberts offer nothing int he forward line apart from clogging it up if they had have camped 40-45 out and not get dragged away we would have been in a very different position.

I know its a moot point, but we really do not have a plan B. (Our plan A is not good enough as it is, given we cannot execute it)

[Sedat]

Is it so different to our style?
A good point you raise. We seem to have adopted large portions of the Ross Lyon blueprint.

[FrediKanoute]

Well when its all said and done we can look forward to trade week and November when hopefully we can ship out the sh*t and the list cloggers.....

[bornadog]

And the problem with the coaching is?
There was a time you held everyone to account for the type of critical but sweeping statement you have just made

OK, fair enough. I was answering Sedats question, it wasn't a sweeping statement, but I will qualify.

Firstly our structure up forward is non existent. Our skill levels are poor, our game plan is non existent. Yes we are winning cont poss and the ball, but we don't know what to do with the ball. How many times did the players just bang it in to the forward 50.

There is something wrong and the buck must stop with the coaches.

[bulldogtragic]

OK, fair enough. I was answering Sedats question, so I will qualify.

Firstly our structure up forward is non existent. Ours skill levels are poor, our game plan is non existent. Yes we are winning cont poss and the ball, but we don't know what to do with the ball. How many times did the players just bang it in to the forward 50.

There is something wrong and the buck must stop with the coaches.

I think I can see what Cam Mooney has brought to the table, but Shannon Grant's input is confusing because if our plan is anything like what our forwards do, well then we need another forward coach.

[azabob]

Very disappointed in Tutts game today. Got a bit of it, but took a big step backwards today.

[Webby]

Ok, devil's advocate time. How can a coach and game plan be labelled anything other than a failure when a team wins inside 50's by 26, CP's by 14, UP's by 35 and then goes on to kick 6 measly goals in a entire match and never look like winning it?

I know we have some structural issues, but surely there is sufficient talent in our best 22 to actually maximise our assets far more effectively and efficiently. How can we be so unsuccessful despite winning so much ball? It is either poor coaching or poor playing group (or a combination thereof).

I ask the above without having seen the game today.

EDIT - we also won tbe clearances by a whopping 15. Such a statistical domination would normally result in a 10 goal win.

I hear you, but equally, we need to ask ourselves the question: Are we building a game plan for an imminent flag push, or are we developing a list?

Because my take is that we're developing a list and we're doing it from the inside out. We clearly have structural issues and there's no quick fix for that. McCartney was clearly hired as a development coach. Is the right approach to have a premiership coach drilling an inadequate list to play 2014 premiership football ( and to ultimately fall short) or is it to continue to get game time into a continually developing list of (very good) developing young players and get us to a point where, when we put the missing structural pieces in place, we'll be ready to take a significant step?

Because, believe me, our 2011 list wasn't capable of a flag. Truth is, our 2010 and list was only good enough for second or third. That's the truth, IMO. If the club is to take the ultimate step, we need ~4 years of continued development.

Fact is, we played the third premiership favourite today as the fifteenth premiership favourite. We can split hairs about game plan and skill errors (and I know there's plenty of material to work with in that area!!), but the big picture is: Are we building our list with quality kids made of the right stuff to be a prem contender in four years time?

And my take on things is that we are. My take 12 months ago was that we were 5 years away. On the basis of that, I'm happy that were on track. We need to be patient and we need to hang tough. Patience is a virtue. I don't know if Macca will be at the helm when we're primed (frankly, I don't care if it's Satan, himself!), but I do believe we're on the right path for now. Beaches 2014 is minus 4 years!

The enormity of the journey needs to be kept in mind. hawthorn played God awful football in 2004!

But all that aside, I really do hear what you're saying. It's tough watching your best mate being beaten up week after week!

[Eastdog]

My take on the match today. I thought we played well in patches today (we have heard that quite a few times). We had at one time when we were on a roll in the 3 quarter more inside 50s than Freo but failed to convert which is just not good enough. Thought Roughy and Morris were quite good today.

Us - 10 minutes inside 50 no results
Freo - 1 minute inside 50 and a goal.

Simply not good enough. I think the delivery is good but what we do after that is the problem.

[Hotdog60]

Jack Redpath talked to the Players Sponsors group. Confident he will get a call up somewhere down the track. I will expand on this later

GVGjr have you got time expand?

[always right]

What I now want to see is a structure that we can build on....and that means some players getting a game who may not necessarily deserve it. Subject to fitness I want to see a forwardline with Crameri, Grant, Jones, Campbell, Dahlhaus and Hrovat. I love Tommy Williams but there were times today where he did not even make a contest.....I just don't think he is capable of crashing packs like Campbell or Jones.

[whythelongface]

What I now want to see is a structure that we can build on....and that means some players getting a game who may not necessarily deserve it. Subject to fitness I want to see a forwardline with Crameri, Grant, Jones, Campbell, Dahlhaus and Hrovat. I love Tommy Williams but there were times today where he did not even make a contest.....I just don't think he is capable of crashing packs like Campbell or Jones.

Good point about Tommy. Unfortunately when he doesn't have the space to lead then he becomes completely ineffective. Did Freo continually have a player loose in our Fwd 50 to stop us from leading into space? It is difficult to tell from the TV. Whilst Jones is also a leading type of player he does have the ability to take a pack mark. I'm not sure about Campbell but it is better than what we have at present

[Webby]

What I now want to see is a structure that we can build on....and that means some players getting a game who may not necessarily deserve it. Subject to fitness I want to see a forwardline with Crameri, Grant, Jones, Campbell, Dahlhaus and Hrovat. I love Tommy Williams but there were times today where he did not even make a contest.....I just don't think he is capable of crashing packs like Campbell or Jones.

I hate the term which is hi-hum footy talk vernacular, but Jones is "much maligned".... We've missed him. Secondly, we seem to forget that Grant's resurgence last year coincided with the club's. When he was injured pre-season, we were in for a long year.

Jones is important to structure. He is raw and lacks class, but provides structure and is becoming a working class, modern archetypal target-cum-decent-defensive tall forward. Meanwhile, Grant provides an X-factor for which modern, generic structured defences find difficult to handle.

We miss them both badly. So their imminent return will be not too soon. I'd implore everyone to hang in there. It's a long term project, but the short term prospects should pick up in the coming weeks.

[ledge]

Can we go back to the basics of all games except golf and look to score more goals than the opposition rather than concentrate on stopping the opposition scoring goals , after all it is a game where highest score wins.

[bulldogtragic]

I hate the term which is hi-hum footy talk vernacular, but Jones is "much maligned".... We've missed him. Secondly, we seem to forget that Grant's resurgence last year coincided with the club's. When he was injured pre-season, we were in for a long year.

Jones is important to structure. He is raw and lacks class, but provides structure and is becoming a working class, modern archetypal target-cum-decent-defensive tall forward. Meanwhile, Grant provides an X-factor for which modern, generic structured defences find difficult to handle.

We miss them both badly. So their imminent return will be not too soon. I'd implore everyone to hang in there. It's a long term project, but the short term prospects should pick up in the coming weeks.

Was Grant re-injured or was there another reason he couldn't be the sub today?

[G-Mo77]

Looking forward to gabbing with you all when I get home. I went through a roller coaster of emotions today. None were good. Glad to catch up with family after the game and glad I'm not driving.

[GVGjr]

GVGjr have you got time expand?

Sorry, I've been bouncing around having a look at all the bumped threads and forgot to come back to this one.

Redpath spoke very well. He talked about being played in the back half for a period of time as part of his development. They then confirmed they wanted him back in the forward line to see if he had learned what he needed to. Said there was still some things that he has been asked to improve on. Redpath mentioned that he is playing the best football and loves playing for Footscray. Mentioned it was better than having 8 players in the reserves. He talked about being injured a few weeks back.

He thinks the VFL listed players are great blokes and talked about the up and down results so far this season. I think it's directly related to the standard of the competition. It's not great.

Redpath indicated that he thinks he is a chance to earn a promotion and hinted it would be for a few weeks.

Shares accommodation with Christian Howard.

My take on it is that Redpath believes he will be given a chance to play. Interestingly in the Match Committee thread I don't think anyone has suggested a promotion to the side against the Lions. Last week there was plenty saying he should be picked against Freo.

Is there a better time to promote him than against the Lions?

[Webby]

Was Grant re-injured or was there another reason he couldn't be the sub today?

Nope. I watched him practicing his goal kicking at WO yesterday alongside LJ. Looked fit to me. Club's probably looking ensure he's ready and firing when he's reintroduced..

It's terrible timing that Footscray didn't have a game tis weekend.

[bulldogtragic]

Nope. I watched him practicing his goal kicking at WO yesterday alongside LJ. Looked fit to me. Club's probably looking ensure he's ready and firing when he's reintroduced..

It's terrible timing that Footscray didn't have a game tis weekend.

I can't understand why Grant can play VFL last week, but can't get a quarter of footy as a sub when he can enter when the game slows down as the players tire.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The statistics and the end result - has that ever happened before, to this degree?

I know we talk about development and this being a long term plan, but reality is we're 2.5 years into this and can we categorically say we are a better side than we were in 2012? On paper yes, but results suggest otherwise IMO. The call is marginal.

[jeemak]

I can't understand why Grant can play VFL last week, but can't get a quarter of footy as a sub when he can enter when the game slows down as the players tire.

He could have been sore, he may not be hitting the KPI's he's been prescribed. The coaching staff may not know what they're doing and are not as smart as us.

[Happy Days]

He could have been sore, he may not be hitting the KPI's he's been prescribed. The coaching staff may not know what they're doing and are not as smart as us.

Is anyone hitting their KPIs?

[bulldogtragic]

He could have been sore, he may not be hitting the KPI's he's been prescribed. The coaching staff may not know what they're doing and are not as smart as us.

Makes sense, the club gave Ayce 4 years and a decade earlier lost a once in a generation forward when they cut 'The Ugg'. Seriously, there was about 30 seconds of special footy three years later for the Tassie VFL team. Special footy, and we missed it.

[bulldogtragic]

Is anyone hitting their KPIs?

On cue. Question of the day to you Mr Days. :)

[Hotdog60]

Sorry, I've been bouncing around having a look at all the bumped threads and forgot to come back to this one.

Redpath spoke very well. He talked about being played in the back half for a period of time as part of his development. They then confirmed they wanted him back in the forward line to see if he had learned what he needed to. Said there was still some things that he has been asked to improve on. Redpath mentioned that he is playing the best football and loves playing for Footscray. Mentioned it was better than having 8 players in the reserves. He talked about being injured a few weeks back.

He thinks the VFL listed players are great blokes and talked about the up and down results so far this season. I think it's directly related to the standard of the competition. It's not great.

Redpath indicated that he thinks he is a chance to earn a promotion and hinted it would be for a few weeks.

Shares accommodation with Christian Howard.

My take on it is that Redpath believes he will be given a chance to play. Interestingly in the Match Committee thread I don't think anyone has suggested a promotion to the side against the Lions. Last week there was plenty saying he should be picked against Freo.

Is there a better time to promote him than against the Lions?

Thanks for that, I would like to give him a shot. We need a presence up forward and if Redpath can be promoted I think we need to give him a go.

[Sedat]

The statistics and the end result - has that ever happened before, to this degree?
That is what has completely surprised me. We have basically smashed Freo in every key statistical measurement and yet didn't even get close to winning. Are opposition coaches simply structuring up for us to win the contested ball and the clearance and picking us off on the turnover? Whilst the statistical imbalance was exaggerated today, it has been a common occurrence to win these key stats and still lose. I'm still very much unconvinced that BMac has the necessary tactical acumen on match days - it's not stretching things to suggest that we lack a level of refinement and tactical nous in the box to match it with other teams on game day.

[bulldogtragic]

That is what has completely surprised me. We have basically smashed Freo in every key statistical measurement and yet didn't even get close to winning. Are opposition coaches simply structuring up for us to win the contested ball and the clearance and picking us off on the turnover? Whilst the statistical imbalance was exaggerated today, it has been a common occurrence to win these key stats and still lose. I'm still very much unconvinced that BMac has the necessary tactical acumen on match days - it's not stretching things to suggest that we lack a level of refinement and tactical nous in the box to match it with other teams on game day.

I struggle to think of one game this year when I can clearly say our coaches box was better than the others. We should be after a match day veteran to consult on match days, and as Bomber Thompson wants to do something in footy, but on a much reduced basis, we should be wooing Bomber with everything we've got.

[G-Mo77]

Pretty disappointing day at the footy. Yeah we took it to one of the best teams in the comp at times but still have major problems holding a level of consistent competitive football. Our skill level and decision making is deplorable, I really cringe at some of our errors, it's down right embarrassing. Some of our players don't have a football brain between them. Do we have specialist skills coaches there? What we can do well at times is grind a team down to a respectable loss, is this at the expense of everything else?

I don't know? I'm a realist and though we'd be in a position similar to last year and we are it's just hard to take.

[macca]

Was at game today. A lot of supporters were bemoaning how senseless our disposal is , they were very frustrated. We can win
The contested ball. , good at stoppages but its the next kick out that erroringly lands in Freo players hand. I recall that's how the first Freo goal went.

We have no leading forwards today. Countless time crowd was crying out to Williams to led and he just sat in goal square and wrestled, and even worse when ball did come he lost his footing often.
We are also letting our young players down when I saw hrovat lead in 3 qtr and he was ignore we all cringed in angst, ball gets turned over .

Zac Clarke was allowed to room too freely today had no idea who was on him but he had 2 goal assists.

We led all stats including frees 11-2 at 3 qtr time and trailed by 4 goals.

It was very painful to watch had fought efforts to win the ball yet to cough it up with stupid kicks. Why are we perisisting with this makeshift forward line? We ned to find a foward who leads, demand the ball and knows how to find space

[macca]

Williams does not know how to lead or double back and lead. All his marks today were leadin outside thr50 m arc. He had plenty of opportunity to lead today . Is he being instructed to sit in the goal square? Dawson look like a marking machine today. To the coaches why do we persist with Williams after today's effort? I don't question his effort but his not a forward against top quality discipline mature body sides

[bulldogtragic]

Williams does not know how to lead or double back and lead. All his marks today were leadin outside thr50 m arc. He had plenty of opportunity to lead today . Is he being instructed to sit in the goal square? Dawson look like a marking machine today. To the coaches why do we persist with Williams after today's effort? I don't question his effort but his not a forward against top quality discipline mature body sides

Our talls other than Jones don't lead. I think they see how well Ayce is doing with wrestling opponents and want to do the same. Surely Mooney and Shaggers Grant are telling them to not move and only wrestle... But most seem to be doing it week in and week out... To be honest Williams is a tough guy, great club man, committed on the track, of great charachter. But I'm just not believing he's an AFL footballer anymore, if any other clubs do get them to send their enquiry onto J. McCartney, C/O Whitten Oval, Footscray, Victoria.

[Remi Moses]

That is what has completely surprised me. We have basically smashed Freo in every key statistical measurement and yet didn't even get close to winning. Are opposition coaches simply structuring up for us to win the contested ball and the clearance and picking us off on the turnover? Whilst the statistical imbalance was exaggerated today, it has been a common occurrence to win these key stats and still lose. I'm still very much unconvinced that BMac has the necessary tactical acumen on match days - it's not stretching things to suggest that we lack a level of refinement and tactical nous in the box to match it with other teams on game day.
Yep. They just wait for us to win it and pressure us to turn it over.
We tackle in a contested situation ( our pressure there is good) once it comes out we don't tackle.
Our one on ones are not good enough. How was Johnson allowed to roam as the extra the whole game?

[Remi Moses]

Our talls other than Jones don't lead. I think they see how well Ayce is doing with wrestling opponents and want to do the same. Surely Mooney and Shaggers Grant are telling them to not move and only wrestle... But most seem to be doing it week in and week out... To be honest Williams is a tough guy, great club man, committed on the track, of great charachter. But I'm just not believing he's an AFL footballer anymore, if any other clubs do get them to send their enquiry onto J. McCartney, C/O Whitten Oval, Footscray, Victoria.
Tom's an athlete trying to learn the game.
Unfortunately with those injuries he hasn't been able to learn in the job.
FWIW you don't give up pick 6 for an athlete on one years football.

[bulldogtragic]

Tom's an athlete trying to learn the game.
Unfortunately with those injuries he hasn't been able to learn in the job.
FWIW you don't give up pick 6 for an athlete on one years football.

Thank you for making me smile, most sincerely, thank you. :)

[Remi Moses]

Very disappointed in Tutts game today. Got a bit of it, but took a big step backwards today.

That glaring mistake where he waited for the ball stood out like the proverbial.
Just showed you've got to be 100% full on when playing the Dockers.

[G-Mo77]

That glaring mistake where he waited for the ball stood out like the proverbial.
Just showed you've got to be 100% full on when playing the Dockers.

I thought Tutt was ordinary, very ordinary today but 2 people made an error in that instance. 1 player needs to demand that ball and make it theirs, 2 players stopped and looked at each other.

[bornadog]

Williams does not know how to lead or double back and lead. All his marks today were leadin outside thr50 m arc. He had plenty of opportunity to lead today . Is he being instructed to sit in the goal square? Dawson look like a marking machine today. To the coaches why do we persist with Williams after today's effort? I don't question his effort but his not a forward against top quality discipline mature body sides

Well I said it countless times, why are we trying to make him a forward when he has no idea. If he must be in the team, it has to be at CHB. I know he was terrible their against Carlton, but I think he lacks confidence.

[The bulldog tragician]

Does anyone have the stat on marks inside 50? The number must have been extremely low, surely?

[Eastdog]

Does anyone have the stat on marks inside 50? The number must have been extremely low, surely?

Not sure what it was but yeah it would of been low. We got it in there ok.

[AndrewP6]

Does anyone have the stat on marks inside 50? The number must have been extremely low, surely?

8 for us, 13 them.

[jeemak]

8 for us, 13 them.

A reflection on the openness of one forward line versus the other, made glaring when considering the disparity in forward 50m entries.

The Dockers experience and system was in full display yesterday. Our inexperience and lack of defensive systems was as well. Purely and simply, they were just able to score too easily against us after weathering the offensive (disorganised offensive) storm we had them under.

I think the coaching panel erred in having us play one on one and make sure numbers were all but even in our forward line as it exposed our defenders on the break too often.

[Sedat]

Yep. They just wait for us to win it and pressure us to turn it over.
That is how it appears to be most weeks and has been for most of the last 2.5 years (save for the last 2 months of last season). But then isn't it the direct responsibility of the coach and his assistants to come up with counter-plans to address how the opposition are structuring up? I'm seeing a team that is busting their arse almost every week, a team that has a good sprinkling of talent and a large dose of toughness, and yet this team is getting picked off with ease almost every week.

I am very concerned that the game plan is already obsolete when we haven't even perfected it yet. Back to basics is fine in theory, but there always needs to be a level of tactical awareness in the box that allows the coach to manipulate match-ups and opposition tactics on game day. We cannot continue to talk about youth and good people and preaching to continue to do the right things most of the time - I'm seeing a team full of good people and who are very coachable that are doing the right thing (in accordance with our game plan since 2012) more often than not, and the results are simply not coming. That says to me that the game plan needs serious refinement, or the playing group is manifestly untalented.

[bulldogtragic]

That is how it appears to be most weeks and has been for most of the last 2.5 years (save for the last 2 months of last season). But then isn't it the direct responsibility of the coach and his assistants to come up with counter-plans to address how the opposition are structuring up? I'm seeing a team that is busting their arse almost every week, a team that has a good sprinkling of talent and a large dose of toughness, and yet this team is getting picked off with ease almost every week.

I am very concerned that the game plan is already obsolete when we haven't even perfected it yet. Back to basics is fine in theory, but there always needs to be a level of tactical awareness in the box that allows the coach to manipulate match-ups and opposition tactics on game day. We cannot continue to talk about youth and good people and preaching to continue to do the right things most of the time - I'm seeing a team full of good people and who are very coachable that are doing the right thing (in accordance with our game plan since 2012) more often than not, and the results are simply not coming. That says to me that the game plan needs serious refinement, or the playing group is manifestly untalented.

When I grow up I hope I can succinctly encapsulate my thoughts as perfect as this.

[azabob]

Sedat / BT - direct question

Who would you replace McCartney with ?

[G-Mo77]

8 for us, 13 them.

Yep and most of those would have been around the 45 - 49M mark, outside range.

[Sedat]

Sedat / BT - direct question

Who would you replace McCartney with ?
Still not sure I'd replace BMac just yet, and certainly not 2.5 years out from the end of his contract. What I would do with immediate effect in 2015 is to radically change the dynamic of the assistant coaches. I am underwhelmed by the level of tactical nous that we have currently in the box, and we urgently need a shot in the arm in this key area - it would only help BMac to have some serious tactical acumen sitting right next to him on match days and seeing things unfold 3 steps ahead of everyone else.

[bulldogtragic]

Sedat / BT - direct question

Who would you replace McCartney with ?
I'm not saying there sack Macca. I'd be sitting him down with the other coaches and telling them what we've been doing for 2.5 years isn't working, so maybe we think about doing something different, including a plan b. Also, I'd tell them that we overestimated our list badly last year so forget about everything else, can they make it as a good footballer. That should see at least 6 delistings come seasons end.

Macca is here for another 3 years. Pissing away Peter's million dollar loan on paying Macca out would be disingenuous to everyone.

And I'd move heaven and earth to get Bomber T.

[Greystache]

That is how it appears to be most weeks and has been for most of the last 2.5 years (save for the last 2 months of last season). But then isn't it the direct responsibility of the coach and his assistants to come up with counter-plans to address how the opposition are structuring up? I'm seeing a team that is busting their arse almost every week, a team that has a good sprinkling of talent and a large dose of toughness, and yet this team is getting picked off with ease almost every week.

Some very valid thoughts there Sedat. One thing I made mention of last week is we can be in control of a game for 3 quarters and still lose by 30+ points, yesterday was another good example. BMac talks about hanging in games, but the reality is we probably control 2.5-3 quarters most weeks. It's unrealistic to think a team can control the game for 4 quarters, nearly every game is going to have ebbs and flows where one team has control at points and then the other does, and if our game plan revolves around that not happening (which it seems to) we are in for very few wins. We need to have a structure and system in place that allows us to capitalize on our periods of dominance, otherwise we're just hanging in games until the point where we lose.


I am very concerned that the game plan is already obsolete when we haven't even perfected it yet. Back to basics is fine in theory, but there always needs to be a level of tactical awareness in the box that allows the coach to manipulate match-ups and opposition tactics on game day. We cannot continue to talk about youth and good people and preaching to continue to do the right things most of the time - I'm seeing a team full of good people and who are very coachable that are doing the right thing (in accordance with our game plan since 2012) more often than not, and the results are simply not coming. That says to me that the game plan needs serious refinement, or the playing group is manifestly untalented.

The basis of the way we play (contested possessions, tackling, numbers around the contest) are probably more relevant than they've ever been, but that's got to be your bread and butter, not your entire meal. I could accept that we were building from the inside out in our first 2 years into a rebuild, and the last 8 games of last year convinced me we were starting to evolve that, but everything I've seen this year indicates that's not what we're looking to do.

People are harping on that everyone is going into meltdown because we're losing, that's really short-sighted, we've been losing for 4 years. What people (at least the one's I consider more astute) are concerned about is the way we're losing, more to the point we're setting out to lose before the game has started, all we're trying to do is control the way in which we lose.

[bornadog]

Still not sure I'd replace BMac just yet, and certainly not 2.5 years out from the end of his contract. What I would do with immediate effect in 2015 is to radically change the dynamic of the assistant coaches. I am underwhelmed by the level of tactical nous that we have currently in the box, and we urgently need a shot in the arm in this key area - it would only help BMac to have some serious tactical acumen sitting right next to him on match days and seeing things unfold 3 steps ahead of everyone else.


Said this from the start, but many on here thought we didn't need it. Its becoming obvious now.

[Greystache]

I'm not saying there sack Macca. I'd be sitting him down with the other coaches and telling them what we've been doing for 2.5 years isn't working, so maybe we think about doing something different, including a plan b. Also, I'd tell them that we overestimated our list badly last year so forget about everything else, can they make it as a good footballer. That should see at least 6 delistings come seasons end.

Macca is here for another 3 years. Pissing away Peter's million dollar loan on paying Macca out would be disingenuous to everyone.

And I'd move heaven and earth to get Bomber T.

If push came to shove I don't see us sacking BMac regardless. If we decided we needed to bring in a new senior coach before his contract expired, then I would think it would make perfect sense to keep him on as the senior assistant and development coach. There's not likely to be anyone more qualified in the AFL to do that role, and he's not on huge money anyway. He may not be prepared to accept that new brief, but then the emphasis would be on him to walk away from the contract.

[bulldogtragic]

Said this from the start, but many on here thought we didn't need it. Its becoming obvious now.

It's weird how many of us called for a real senior assistant to help Macca, and that was twisted into borderline hating the coach. I still maintain Bomber Thompson is our man. He wants to do something in footy but at more his pace, as a competitor match day tactics to one of his best mates about executing a plan Bomber designed seems like something worth thinking about, nay, pursuing as hard as we can. Can we still use Smorgo's mansion to woo people to the club? :)

[bulldogtragic]

If push came to shove I don't see us sacking BMac regardless. If we decided we needed to bring in a new senior coach before his contract expired, then I would think it would make perfect sense to keep him on as the senior assistant and development coach. There's not likely to be anyone more qualified in the AFL to do that role, and he's not on huge money anyway. He may not be prepared to accept that new brief, but then the emphasis would be on him to walk away from the contract.

That's a great IR thought, I like being made to think about interesting things. Reminds me of a case often studied in this area with Fremantle FC and an assistant coach being offered a role. Freo had to pay out the contract from memory.