Is our Game Plan outdated and not relevant anymore?

[bornadog]

This quote got me thinking:


I remember watching Geelong pick us off last year. They sat one or two outside the 1st contest, picked off the wayward hand pass and then spread like mad things. They were already outside the mill so had space and they also saved their energy by waiting for the mistake on the second or third touch instead of using it in a stacks on rumble. Left them with more Gatorade in the legs. If you watch the replay they structured it time and time again. Think Freo found a similar albeit slightly different gambit that played to their strengths in the rebound.

How can a team have 67 inside 50's, ie 26 more than the opposition yet lose by 38 points.

We are down this year on cont.poss. but we are still getting lots of the ball (8th in AFL).

Is our gameplan wrong and outdated. Is Macca trying to do what a Geelong did 5 years ago? Have we progressed with the gameplan? Or is it simply we donot have the players to carry out what the MC wants us to.

[bulldogtragic]

As per my thoughts which this post came from, not sure if I need t repeat myself, we are very easy to coach against right now. I think it's a combination of a lot of things.

[chef]

If we had two decent KPF's would it improve our game plan?

[bulldogtragic]

If we had two decent KPF's would it improve our game plan?

No. And we don't.

[GVGjr]

BAD, what do you believe our game plan is and given our cattle what would do you believe it should be?

[chef]

No. And we don't.

I reckon it would.

[bulldogtragic]

I reckon it would.

I hope the club tests this theory come season's end then!

Patton and Vickery maybe? I know Vickery is average right now, but my guess is that he's the sort of player who needs a second attempt. Patton is a gun.

Aside, we would have to give away players we love to get such players, and not many were prepared to trade Will last year when his value was at its best. So the club seems damned if it does and damned if it doesn't with aggressively trading and selling it to the membership.

[Remi Moses]

Vickery is useless (no better than Cordy)
Patton would be worth it

[bulldogtragic]

Vickery is useless (no better than Cordy)
Patton would be worth it

Vickery at the right price, or if we're low enough PSD (I think he's uncontracted at year's end, but don't quote me on this)
Patton is worth a Geelong style Ottens trade. It may hurt letting a loved guy go, but 11 years of Patton could be the best years of our memberships, and some stretch a long way back.

[bornadog]

BAD, what do you believe our game plan is and given our cattle what would do you believe it should be?

Seems our game plan started with contested footy, ie getting the ball in the first place and forcing it forward. Now we are trying to not only get the ball but try and spread and get the ball down to the forward line as quick as possible to give the forwards a chance. Unfortunately all we are succeeding in doing is bombing the ball forward and we don't have the players that can take a contested mark.

What should the gameplan be. Hard question as I am not a coach, just an ordinary supporter. What I do know is finals are won with a very good backline, or defensive team, that can run the ball down the ground and get it to a marking forward. Nearly all premiership teams have won because they have had a pretty good KPF.

Contested footy is a given, and if you look at our previous team under Rocket, we were in the top three for contested footy, just lacked that KPF. That gameplan under Rocket is history and doesn't work any more. I like Port Adelaide's style as well as the Hawks when they have a full team in. They play a possession style, ie keepings off with accurate passing and quick movement of the ball, they have the team to win the ball at stoppages and can take posseion when they lose it. The Swans are another good example how the gameplan has moved forward. We are playing more like the old Swans, they have gone to another level.

What we lack is the cattle. The backline to me is not settled and we don't have a good marking forward, so we are going to struggle until we can rectify the situation.

[jeemak]

BAD, my take is we don't have the skill level or development level in our current list to execute much more than we are doing right now.

Some of this will improve as the core of younger players gets fitter, though we do need to add personnel to assist the structure physically (KPF, KPD and midfield run and carry). There is a serious lack of leg speed and polish through our list at present, and this is hampering our ability to move the ball quickly and cleanly.

Leg speed can be disguised by excellent skills and decisiveness with the ball in hand (Geelong were the prime example of this). Skills can be helped by confidence, decisiveness and predictability to each other. What impressed me a lot about Fremantle was their predictability to one another when going forward on the "sling" on Saturday. It was obvious they were a well drilled team, that had the fitness and confidence to back up their plan.

I'm not sure people understand how difficult it is to build the team the way the coaching panel seems to be. Going all out attack or all out defence is easy enough, though choosing one to run with to build a foundation and then blending it with the other component to create a winning balance is tough. Just look at Norf, Richmond, Essendon and Carlton who are all showing varying degrees of progress with respect to balancing out attacking flare with a harder defensive and more accountable style of football (these are all teams who have had plenty to work with in the draft, and many more years than us to develop a style or brand, if you will).

I don't actually understand what we're trying to do with the ball going forward. At the end of last year when our structure seemed to be more conventional in the forward 50m (largely due to Grant and Campbell/Jones gelling reasonably well) we moved the ball more fluidly from defence to attack, and it seemed we scored more easily. This year our forward structure has been ordinary, not helped by the so so form of Campbell and Jones, plus the latter's suspension, or the injury to Grant. The next few months will make interesting watching, and I think it's naive in the extreme to suggest there isn't a genuine and valid plan being worked on currently (actually, it's almost insulting to paid professionals - not directed at you BTW Bornadog).

Our defencive side is much easier to read. Once we get fitter we'll be able to stop teams like Fremantle doing what they did to us on the break forward. Our team defencive game is really close in my opinion.

Whether it's outdated is too hard to tell without understanding what our forward ball movement strategy will turn into. What I'd be really pissed off about though, is Bmac building a strategy for now, especially when we need a strategy to be competitive in 2-7 years time.

[whythelongface]

Great post Jeemak. Sums it up very well.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not sure we are outdated. We just need to be aware of , and react to, opposition structures. I get the feeling in 12 and particularly '13 (after bringing in so much new young talent in the '12 draft) our coaching response has been "lets see how they react". We had an obstinate lack of positional movement at times when we were being slaughtered. I think its deliberate. Wallis vs Mitchell was a classic case in point. Get in their, get butchered, get angry, learn why good players are so good and pick out elements of their game to learn from. There was a great article about Wallis' boots being full of blood at the end of the game as Mitchell (Hodge?) cant remember, stamped on his feet so many times in the contest and then broke away. you dont learn that in TAC. you certainly dint see it on TV. You experience it, get pissed off and use it 5 years down the track to break your own tag. I haven't been totally against that philosophy until now. I'm not sure I' against it now either; totally depends where the club sees us. If we are still in development mode, if its still all about the kids, then I couldn't really give a flying about Freo/Geelong or responding to their structures. If that's the case we just drill, drill, drill our own plan. Clever coaching responses can come in two years when we are on the rise. However. don't stand on stage and tell me, and the media, we are the danger if we aren't there yet (internally). Tell us a story about incremental steps we are still taking and how we are taking the harder longer path to the top of the hill. Tell me about the joys of the small individual player wins in the preseason. Its grandstanding that leads our supporters to wander off into the mental shortcuts and have them setting unrealistic expectations. That, in turn, simply increases pressure on the club and players and its just stupid. I don't think our game plan is rubbish. I don't think its even formalised. I think we are still under a teaching coach who is largely ignoring Geelongs outside sneakery and Freo's structures and is building structures in all areas of the ground that the players still aren't executing well. When it comes together I suspect it will be fine and you could see elements v Freo. It's just horrid to watch though as we still lack 2 Key Forwards that we desperately, desperately need to provide decent go to targets.

[Remi Moses]

Jeemak summed it up perfectly.

[Scorlibo]

Too much is made of 'game plans'. Winning contested football isn't a game plan, it's an essential part of winning games of football. As is kicking well, as is running hard both ways, etc.

This isn't a game of smoke and mirrors, it's footy, and it's not as complex as many think.

[stefoid]

Better disposal forward of center and more quality in the forward line would solve a lot of our problems. Easy to say.

[Eastdog]

What is our game plan? I just don't see it. While Gia who I thought was very good coming on as a sub in the forward line it is a worry when he was the only one that was most effective up there. Getting a game plan on a paper is the easy bit but executing it is another thing altogether.

[meenies]

Roughead said on radio last night that he learned from Brown's forward running patterns. That's great. My question is does anyone know what our forward running patterns are? Do we have any? Have we had any?

[Remi Moses]

Umm, kick it haphazardly and refrain from any responsibility with ball in hand.
Forwards- let Patfull mark uncontested when putting the ball at the top of the square.
Nobody creates any space, nobody blocks, nobody leads. Nobodies doing it all

[Eastdog]

Umm, kick it haphazardly and refrain from any responsibility with ball in hand.
Forwards- let Patfull mark uncontested when putting the ball at the top of the square.
Nobody creates any space, nobody blocks, nobody leads. Nobodies doing it all

What do you think ultimately Remi its down to. Maybe Macca is telling the players what to do but they just don't get it. I think while Macca needs to take responsibility for our direction I don't believe it's all his fault as some have said.

[AndrewP6]

What do you think ultimately Remi its down to. Maybe Macca is telling the players what to do but they just don't get it. I think while Macca needs to take responsibility for our direction I don't believe it's all his fault as some have said.

If he's giving a message and it isn't getting through, time for a new voice.

[Remi Moses]

Not all his fault, but being at the top he has to wear it.
Williams is a make shift forward, Jones has no second or third efforts, Crameri's a hard working third tall, and putting ruck man down there full time doesn't work. Gia's the only one smart enough to get in the right spots, but he's not the future. The Cooney centre summed it up, kicked to the top of the square and nobody was smart enough to be in the right spot.

[Eastdog]

Not all his fault, but being at the top he has to wear it.
Williams is a make shift forward, Jones has no second or third efforts, Crameri's a hard working third tall, and putting ruck man down there full time doesn't work. Gia's the only one smart enough to get in the right spots, but he's not the future. The Cooney centre summed it up, kicked to the top of the square and nobody was smart enough to be in the right spot.

The responsibility is on the players out on the field to follow the instructions from the coach. If there not doing that then you can't exactly blame the coach. Maybe Macca will be a late bloomer. Remember before he come to us he was only an assistant and not a senior coach with no experience at the top level.