Three Things I've Learned - Round 12 Edition

[Eastdog]

Once the Round 12 match against Brisbane Lions is completed, let us know the three things you learned after watching the match.

Be constructive but be honest.

[Eastdog]

Bump

[azabob]

1. Poise,poise, poise - we still lack it.

2. Higgins is nearly a complete player. Uses the footy so well, creative and now backs back into packs and takes marks. Not sure of his injury but if its not serious, I think he will leave at the years end and go to a top four club.

3. Griffen is either injured or isn't working hard enough.

[The bulldog tragician]

1. Our skills have to be the worst in the league.
2. I am finding it really hard to see what our game plan is. With the game still winnable, it was hard to understand why Stevens, Wallis and Libber were in the centre square.
3. we are slow. Real slow.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't know if I learned it, maybe realised it, but those 500 kids who pledged themselves to the cheer squad might have a hard time doing the same next year or at school next week. Doing it was 100% the right thing, but timing has been horrible.

[Remi Moses]

1. Every club knows you wait for the ball on the outside and rush forward.
2. To many 1 paced same types
3. No more sentiment and keeping "good people"

[LostDoggy]

1. I watch the team only to see who the next Bulldogs icon might be
2. I have zero expectations of a win
3. Get a big pair of scissors and cut, cut, cut, cut......

[Remi Moses]

1. Poise,poise, poise - we still lack it.

2. Higgins is nearly a complete player. Uses the footy so well, creative and now backs back into packs and takes marks. Not sure of his injury but if its not serious, I think he will leave at the years end and go to a top four club.

3. Griffen is either injured or isn't working hard enough.

If Ryan Griffen is injured, don't play him .

[Greystache]

1. We cannot defend the middle of the ground, we get opened up like a can of sardines every week.

2. I'm actually now convinced our forwards are instructed not to lead and instead to stand still and wait for the long bomb. Every player does it regardless of who's playing or how much space there is to work with.

3. The wooden spoon is a genuine chance.

[G-Mo77]

1. We are the worst team in the comp, from top to bottom, inside to out. There is no way to make it sound nice and pretty we are the worst!

2. We have got to have the dumbest bunch of footballers in the competition.

3. Our players must hate each other. I don't think any team has more hospital passes than us.

[bornadog]

1. We are the worst team in the comp, from top to bottom, inside to out. There is no way to make it sound nice and pretty we are the worst!

2. We have got to have the dumbest bunch of footballers in the competition.

3. Our players must hate each other. I don't think any team has more hospital passes than us.

Ditto for me, I can't be bothered with this rubbish football we play.

[GVGjr]

- We haven't had good games from Griffen for a while and I don't think he is leading. He should have done better tonight. GAJ plays with taggers each week.
- There is no quick fix for the position we are in.
- Higgins showed a fair bit of courage tonight

[Go_Dogs]

1. Our recruiting mantra has left us exposed, we haven't addressed our lack of run and carry players. Higgins playing well is a bonus, without him we would only have Murphy who is prepared to take the game on. Where is our Hill/s, Jetta, Zorko, Motlop, etc.

2. Our defensive speed looks slow. So many players can look good when we are moving the ball forward (which rarely happens) but when a turnover occurs, our blokes look slow. We don't identify the right player/s to shut down, either crowding one player and leaving the next 2 or 3 free, or choosing to follow/chase the wrong player back.

3. I don't know where to start in addressing our issues....but it's becoming apparent despite improvement in young players individually, we are going backwards as a team.

[always right]

1. Have supporters reached their lowest ebb?
2. For the first time McCartney really looks like a coach under pressure and when you're losing, McCartney's press conferences start to become quite annoying when his answer to our predicament is to simply go back to work on Monday....no matter how logical that answer might be.
3. I really want to see us playing the forwardline we see as our future. That means Jones, Grant, Crameri......and perhaps Campbell.

[F'scary]

1. That Howard has played his last game.
2. That Cordy needs to be played one more time so that he can be consigned to the rubbish bin as well.
3. That our recruiting at the end of 2012 wasn't as good as we thought it was. Only Macrae has really come on.

[Mantis]

1. That Howard has played his last game.
2. That Cordy needs to be played one more time so that he can be consigned to the rubbish bin as well.
3. That our recruiting at the end of 2012 wasn't as good as we thought it was. Only Macrae has really come on.

Very harsh.

The 2012 recruits have a lot of time on their side, as does Cordy.

[mighty_west]

- Our forward structure is non existent, I really noticed it at Metricon a few weeks back when I watched our midget forward line walking towards the end I was sitting, if we intend to as a team play a structure in the future when back up and running which include tall forwards, at least play one or two to at least create an environment up forward to which us as a developing side learns to play with.

- Our '06-'09 drafts are really hurting the club big time, something like 19 players recruited, only 5 remain and two are Tutt and Howard, OUCH!

- Redpath has to play, I don't have much faith in Cordy as a forward, only as a ruck option so Campbell or Jones also need to play, they just do, Jones or Campbell would also give Will a much needed chop out, I wouldn't be afraid to throw Jones in the ruck at times especially those games he seems to struggle finding the ball.....oh and I'm afraid Williams is cooked, I've been a big fan of his whilst he's been developing but the injuries really have taken there toll on his confidence and eagerness to crash a pack or lead out strong to make himself a target, he's playing like he's wrapped in cotton wool.

[meenies]

I agree here, we are now shot for 2014. Let's start planning and playing for 2015.
Put those we want in the forward line; play those back players we think will work in years to come - ie Tahlia. even if he does make some lazy mistakes, is he any worse than others in the firsts?

[SlimPickens]

Play those back players we think will work in years to come - ie Tahlia. even if he does make some lazy mistakes, is he any worse than others in the firsts?

Don't think our defence is the issue. I would like to see Roberts and Talia playing some seniors but they must earn it. Both are developing in the VFL and will continue to get better.

[whythelongface]

3. That our recruiting at the end of 2012 wasn't as good as we thought it was. Only Macrae has really come on.

Seriously. Wow these guys are what, 19 years old. They are not our problem.

MaCrae has been outstanding for a 2nd year player (as you have stated); Stringer will come on as he gets slightly older and Hrovrat has shown plenty of ability and will develop into a very good player. We haven't seen Prudden yet, mainly due to injuries thus I can't comment on him.

I know we are in a dark place at the moment and we are all hurting, but to suggest that the class of 2012 was not as good as we thought it was is bollocks.

Question for you - did you actually expect MaCrae to be as good as he is this early on in his career? Honest answer please.

[F'scary]

Very harsh.

The 2012 recruits have a lot of time on their side, as does Cordy.

2012: Stringer, Hrovat, Stevens, Hunter, Prudden, Young. Young & Stevens have headed down the uncorrectable skills deficiencies path. The others are either spending most of their time in the reserves or not making an impact when in the seniors. But yes they do have time on their side - One more season for most of them or the die is cast.

Cordy? You must be kidding. The fact that he has been repeatedly overlooked for a recall in a side that is losing week after week, has had a dearth of tall players available and whose ruckman looks completely jaded through overwork - says it all. But I'm tipping Cordy will follow Howard with a call-up this week. If Dr Nitschke was on our match committee, he would pick Cordy this week.

[Remi Moses]

1. That Howard has played his last game.
2. That Cordy needs to be played one more time so that he can be consigned to the rubbish bin as well.
3. That our recruiting at the end of 2012 wasn't as good as we thought it was. Only Macrae has really come on.

Amongst the doom and gloom this really is a silly post.
Hrovat hasn't hardly played.
Prudden's been injured
Your going on a very small body of work .
Good lord

[Remi Moses]

2012: Stringer, Hrovat, Stevens, Hunter, Prudden, Young. Young & Stevens have headed down the uncorrectable skills deficiencies path. The others are either spending most of their time in the reserves or not making an impact when in the seniors. But yes they do have time on their side - One more season for most of them or the die is cast.

Cordy? You must be kidding. The fact that he has been repeatedly overlooked for a recall in a side that is losing week after week, has had a dearth of tall players available and whose ruckman looks completely jaded through overwork - says it all. But I'm tipping Cordy will follow Howard with a call-up this week. If Dr Nitschke was on our match committee, he would pick Cordy this week.

So your writing off Hunter, Stringer, Prudden, Hrovat ?
Seriously mate have a Panadol and a rest on the couch

[lemmon]

Don't think our defence is the issue. I would like to see Roberts and Talia playing some seniors but they must earn it. Both are developing in the VFL and will continue to get better.

Agree with that, I think we've got two capable stoppers in Fletch and Talia, it was a bit of a cop out that Fletch went out of the side after his poor game as a forward after a few very solid defensive efforts.

[bornadog]

Agree with that, I think we've got two capable stoppers in Fletch and Talia, it was a bit of a cop out that Fletch went out of the side after his poor game as a forward after a few very solid defensive efforts.

I don't understand why we brought him into the seniors and he played forward not back?

We only allowed 3 goals in the second half last night. We really lost it in the second quarter when they continually won the centre clearances.

[lemmon]

I don't understand why we brought him into the seniors and he played forward not back?

We only allowed 3 goals in the second half last night. We really lost it in the second quarter when they continually won the centre clearances.

The bright side is that we've found his spot. I've never bought the tall 'swing-man' idea, the only player who has genuinely made it work for a sustained period in the last decade was Adam Hunter. What we have with Fletch is a dour centre half back who is neat with the footy and does a fairly good shut down job- when played in that role at the highest level he showed he was capable.

[whythelongface]

I don't understand why we brought him into the seniors and he played forward not back?

We only allowed 3 goals in the second half last night. We really lost it in the second quarter when they continually won the centre clearances.

This is what I don't understand. This area was meant to be one of our strengths this year based on the rear end of last season, yet has been one of the main areas that we have been extremely disappointing in. Last night's game and the game against the GC showed that if we don't win the centre clearances we get absolutely hammered. Why have we dropped of so significantly in this area? When we do win the centre clearances at least we seem to be in with a chance to win most games.

[azabob]

The bright side is that we've found his spot. I've never bought the tall 'swing-man' idea, the only player who has genuinely made it work for a sustained period in the last decade was Adam Hunter. What we have with Fletch is a dour centre half back who is neat with the footy and does a fairly good shut down job- when played in that role at the highest level he showed he was capable.

Which is why I think he should play on the second key forward and let Morris play on the third best forward.

Roberts should not have been dropped.

[lemmon]

Which is why I think he should play on the second key forward and let Morris play on the third best forward.

Roberts should not have been dropped.

I fully agree, Morris has been doing jobs on smalls and medium types his entire career, he hasn't lost his pace so it's a good option to have.

[westdog54]

1. That Howard has played his last game.
2. That Cordy needs to be played one more time so that he can be consigned to the rubbish bin as well.
3. That our recruiting at the end of 2012 wasn't as good as we thought it was. Only Macrae has really come on.

I'll give you number one. I will not cop the other two.

You are pretty good with your pot shots but your constant attack on Ayce Cordy is kind of getting boring. He had a good week in the twos this week and is still progressing, just like Minson did before him.

As for your dressing comment, are you serious. Have you given up on Stringer, Hrovat Prudden and Hunter already?

[always right]

1. That Howard has played his last game.
2. That Cordy needs to be played one more time so that he can be consigned to the rubbish bin as well.
3. That our recruiting at the end of 2012 wasn't as good as we thought it was. Only Macrae has really come on.
In these dark times, I appreciate your levity.

[F'scary]

So your writing off Hunter, Stringer, Prudden, Hrovat ?
Seriously mate have a Panadol and a rest on the couch

I am and that is what I am writing. Next suggestion?

[Scorlibo]

I am and that is what I am writing. Next suggestion?

Wait another 2 years before potting any of the kids drafted in 2012.

I'm also frustrated at how Stringer, Hrovat and Hunter seem to have stagnated this year. They just need time.

[azabob]

Wait another 2 years before potting any of the kids drafted in 2012.

I'm also frustrated at how Stringer, Hrovat and Hunter seem to have stagnated this year. They just need time.

Really? I think all three are tracking as per expected. Stringer maybe a little down on output, but the other two are on track.

[Scorlibo]

Really? I think all three are tracking as per expected. Stringer maybe a little down on output, but the other two are on track.

Hunter was favourite for the rising star at the start of the year, Stringer not too far off that either. Hrovat has had injuries but I'm still waiting to see him really influence a game like we think he can.

[DISHLICKERS]

1 I had 90% of Maccas press conference script done by 15 min into fianl qtr/

2 The press conference showed Macca looks lost

3 I have no confidence in Macca

[always right]

1 I had 90% of Maccas press conference script done by 15 min into fianl qtr/

2 The press conference showed Macca looks lost

3 I have no confidence in Macca
Can you give some examples and tell us how they weren't factual? To be honest I thought he was pretty honest.....but agree he looks a bit shaken up.

[KT31]

Wait another 2 years before potting any of the kids drafted in 2012.

I'm also frustrated at how Stringer, Hrovat and Hunter seem to have stagnated this year. They just need time.

Time or decent leadership from senior players and coaching ?

[soupman]

Really? I think all three are tracking as per expected. Stringer maybe a little down on output, but the other two are on track.

Agree.

Hunter: Was not expected to debut last year and not only played multiple games but was impressive in most of them. When he was drafted we would have been looking for him to debut around about now (mid second season). A handful of games last year and a good pre-season has raised expectations but he has shown already that he is capable of being skillful and clever with the ball and influencing the scoreboard. His issues atm are work rate, ability to get and stay involved in the match and developing his body to compete with bigger defenders and run out games better.

Stringer: Probably debuted roughly where expected, and showed enough last year for a tick, especially considering he was an undersized key forward with a low fitness base regaining confidence in a leg that snapped in half. Made huge gains in the pre-season fitness wise, and that combined with some outstanding bits of play last year raised expectations greatly. Realistically he is about where he should be, playing 60% of our games in the seniors, being tried in positions for a developmental aspect regardless of output, and working on increasing his fitness to be able to better compete. Don't forget that once the opposition sorts out Crameri's matchup the next best big bloke is being sent to Stringer so when he is up forward he is on good defenders. His trial in defence was overall positive. At this stage of his development there is no way we were expecting anything more than a contribution in matches. There should be no expectation on him to be kicking multiple goals or having an above average influence on a game.

Hrovat has been generally encouraging when given the opportunity, he was probably the most AFL ready of the entire draft at the time of drafting. He has however suffered multiple injuries (quad, cheekbone, another???) but when he has been available he has always excelled at VFL level and has generally been lively in the AFL. His game against Essendon lat year was great, and his last two games he has been dangerous (mostly in the first half prior to getting tired) with his execution lacking. I think he is tracking as expected.

[Bulldog4life]

Wait another 2 years before potting any of the kids drafted in 2012.

I'm also frustrated at how Stringer, Hrovat and Hunter seem to have stagnated this year. They just need time.

It is easier for young players to play in a successful team than one which is struggling. All 3 players have bright futures.

[Ozza]

Agree.

Hunter: Was not expected to debut last year and not only played multiple games but was impressive in most of them. When he was drafted we would have been looking for him to debut around about now (mid second season). A handful of games last year and a good pre-season has raised expectations but he has shown already that he is capable of being skillful and clever with the ball and influencing the scoreboard. His issues atm are work rate, ability to get and stay involved in the match and developing his body to compete with bigger defenders and run out games better.

Stringer: Probably debuted roughly where expected, and showed enough last year for a tick, especially considering he was an undersized key forward with a low fitness base regaining confidence in a leg that snapped in half. Made huge gains in the pre-season fitness wise, and that combined with some outstanding bits of play last year raised expectations greatly. Realistically he is about where he should be, playing 60% of our games in the seniors, being tried in positions for a developmental aspect regardless of output, and working on increasing his fitness to be able to better compete. Don't forget that once the opposition sorts out Crameri's matchup the next best big bloke is being sent to Stringer so when he is up forward he is on good defenders. His trial in defence was overall positive. At this stage of his development there is no way we were expecting anything more than a contribution in matches. There should be no expectation on him to be kicking multiple goals or having an above average influence on a game.

Hrovat has been generally encouraging when given the opportunity, he was probably the most AFL ready of the entire draft at the time of drafting. He has however suffered multiple injuries (quad, cheekbone, another???) but when he has been available he has always excelled at VFL level and has generally been lively in the AFL. His game against Essendon lat year was great, and his last two games he has been dangerous (mostly in the first half prior to getting tired) with his execution lacking. I think he is tracking as expected.

Good post.

Good to hear also over the weekend that both Hunter and Stringer worked hard and were involved all day.
Word I had come back from those at the game was Hunter played that high half forward/extra mid role and worked up and back really industriously all day.
Stringer played forward/inside mid, got plenty of miles in the legs and I think handled the footy over 20 times.

For me - that's exactly what you want guys like this in the infancy of their careers doing at VFL level.
All 5 2012 draftees- including Prudden in his limited, but very impressive time on the park have done enough to suggest they are likely long term players- with Macrae and Stringer chances to be A Graders.

On a separate note, speaking at the Presidents dinner on Saturday night- for what it's worth - Boydy described Bontempelli as the "most gifted kid he has seen come into the club for a long long time"...going on to say that he has some areas he's working hard on, but his scope is enormous.

[azabob]

Good post.


.

Thanks for the updates Ozza. Great to hear.

[Webby]

It is easier for young players to play in a successful team than one which is struggling. All 3 players have bright futures.

Correct. We have some good, good kids. I don't really look at our game plan so much as I don't think it's priority one at this point. For me, the main priority is in ensuring we manage the game time of our kids and ensure they are building their knowledge, fitness and skill bases. Macrae is ahead if the curve, Bontempelli has some great raw attributes, Wallis is learning the caper but it cut from the right cloth, Libba will be a great, Hunter has exceeded expectations and will improve, Hrovat looks the goods, Dahlhaus has been great and is still very young, Stringer's leg snapped in half 2 or so years ago, yet he looks a pure footballer, Cordy is still a kid in ruckmens' years, Roughead will be a stalwart, Roberts and Talia will mature into good defenders.

Meanwhile Pruden might bea player and I don't know about Darley. Those two are speccys..

This year we'll have a top 3-4 pick and should land another very good kid.

Rocket was arguably the best game day coach in the AFL. The club moved him on for a bloke who was renowned as arguably the best development coach in the afl. (If the club had brought in a coach who was renowned for tactical nous and getting the very best out of senior players, I'd have questioned their thinking!!)

He's either got a 5 year mission to build and develop a list prior to handing over to a seasoned Rocket-like coach, or he'll develop his skill base along with the team itself and take it the full journey.

Personally, I don't care which one it is. Either way, most of our kids and our list are developing about how I expected... I'm prepared to stay the course and do all I can to avoid the Dogs becoming Richmond!

[mighty_west]

Correct. We have some good, good kids. I don't really look at our game plan so much as I don't think it's priority one at this point. For me, the main priority is in ensuring we manage the game time of our kids and ensure they are building their knowledge, fitness and skill bases. Macrae is ahead if the curve, Bontempelli has some great raw attributes, Wallis is learning the caper but it cut from the right cloth, Libba will be a great, Hunter has exceeded expectations and will improve, Hrovat looks the goods, Dahlhaus has been great and is still very young, Stringer's leg snapped in half 2 or so years ago, yet he looks a pure footballer, Cordy is still a kid in ruckmens' years, Roughead will be a stalwart, Roberts and Talia will mature into good defenders.

Meanwhile Pruden might bea player and I don't know about Darley. Those two are speccys..

This year we'll have a top 3-4 pick and should land another very good kid.

Rocket was arguably the best game day coach in the AFL. The club moved him on for a bloke who was renowned as arguably the best development coach in the afl. (If the club had brought in a coach who was renowned for tactical nous and getting the very best out of senior players, I'd have questioned their thinking!!)

He's either got a 5 year mission to build and develop a list prior to handing over to a seasoned Rocket-like coach, or he'll develop his skill base along with the team itself and take it the full journey.

Personally, I don't care which one it is. Either way, most of our kids and our list are developing about how I expected... I'm prepared to stay the course and do all I can to avoid the Dogs becoming Richmond!

Great post!

Agree with everything you're saying about the club when Macca came in, and even those questioning Brendan admit that he is a great teacher, but whether or not his game day skills can match, I believe are yet to be seen until at the very least the side does get back to playing finals and contesting.

One thing I do know is that as a passionate supporter, really have been crying out since the '97 Prelim, for the team to really focus on that contested win your own ball hard nosed style of play which does win those big finals, unfortunately we have been found out on numerous occasions that when the tide does turn, we really have struggled to match that intensity and belief to get back things on our terms, the great teams do it.

Right now, blind freddy can see that the team is being programmed first of all to contest, win own ball and defend, it has been spoken about in length by Brendan, as the group starts to get good at it, whilst also tweeking the game plan at times to introduce a more attacking style but being able with experience as a group to switch modes depending on different stages of the game, and I'm not too sure an experienced Malthouse style of coach would be prepared to start from scratch to what I see is the best way to develop the team so in a few years when these kids are ready to take the next step, when the team is ready to contest, I believe in my mind that is the best way to go for the club to win these big finals.

Can Macca as a coach take that next step also? who knows, perhaps we may need to bring in a coach with Grand Final experience to finish the job, but right now I believe in the position the club is in, he is at least a great teacher to at the very least develop these kids and team to go all the way, obviously a lot also has to go right in drafting and trading.

[Ghost Dog]

Can we say goodbye to Christian Howard already? I just think he's the wrong style of player for our team, irrespective of potential.
We need blokes that have a blue collar work ethic.

[Remi Moses]

I am and that is what I am writing. Next suggestion?

So you're writing off a few second year players?
Big footy lunacy right there

[wimberga]

Can we say goodbye to Christian Howard already? I just think he's the wrong style of player for our team, irrespective of potential.
We need blokes that have a blue collar work ethic.

Agree - its like some others have commented, if he was playing for Footscray VFL we would not even look twice and rookie-ing or listing him but because he is on the main list, he gets a chance?

Surely he will be gone at years end - we aren't good enough to carry passengers.

[Mofra]

Rocket was arguably the best game day coach in the AFL. The club moved him on for a bloke who was renowned as arguably the best development coach in the afl. (If the club had brought in a coach who was renowned for tactical nous and getting the very best out of senior players, I'd have questioned their thinking!!)
This sums it up for me.
I'm not convinced B-mac is a premiership coach, but he may just be the best fit for our current situation.

[Mofra]

Agree - its like some others have commented, if he was playing for Footscray VFL we would not even look twice and rookie-ing or listing him but because he is on the main list, he gets a chance?
I'm comfortable with the selection - I wouldn't have given him another year on the list, but once he strung together a couple of good games we needed to know for sure his ceiling. We've found it.
B-mac in the MMM interview made it sound like he wont be back in the side.