Western Bulldogs' dilemma more than the coach

[Bulldog4life]

Are the Western Bulldogs a potentially good side drastically under-performing, or an ordinary one placed where their talent dictates they should be? Much depends on how you viewed the Bulldogs' finish to 2013.

Five wins from their last nine games seemed to have enough of the football world talking up potential finals prospects over summer. Too much, in fact, thought some of us, given they were victories over GWS, bedraggled West Coast and Adelaide teams, Carlton and Melbourne.

That weight of expectation has been some millstone this season. But with the Bulldogs now 3-8 and clearly cooked as far as 2014 goes, it's time nevertheless to start asking whether what it was based upon was in fact mostly hot air.

After a period of public grace, coach Brendan McCartney is starting to feel some serious heat about a variety of issues.

He was less than convincing when responding to the Bulldogs' position at the bottom of The Age's 'relevance ladder' last week. There's his refusal to give the public roasting many Bulldog fans believe his players deserve. A lack of animation before the cameras which, perhaps unfairly, can be interpreted as lack of passion. Now there's growing criticisms about both selection and an alleged lack of pro-activeness in the coach's box on game day.

All could feasibly be factors in what is fast becoming a nightmare of a season. But not nearly as great as one far more ominous perspective. That not only is McCartney's list a mile off the pace now, but its prospects of bridging that gap over the next few years minimal.

That's not to gloss over the immediate problems, though, which are considerable. In short, the Bulldogs have gone backwards in areas in which they've been proficient, and got worse in departments which were already an issue.

In 2013, the Bulldogs at least ranked No.1 in the differentials for contested ball. Currently, they're 16th. The blue collar stuff, as McCartney himself has noted, isn't always easy on the eye, but the fans will tolerate a lack of aesthetics if it produces wins. When that's not happening, what are they supposed to be enthused about?

Certainly, not their attack, which despite the recruitment of Stewart Crameri, is performing even worse than last year, when it ranked 13th for points scored. Then, the Dogs averaged 87.5 points a game. Currently, they're going at 80.2 points, more than a goal per game less, the ranking slipping to equal 14th.

They're not efficient with what opportunities they do have, either, ranked 15th for scores per forward entry, only once in 12 games having scored more than 100 points. That veteran Daniel Giansiracusa ranks second for scoreboard impact despite having started as sub eight times and averaging only 44 per cent of game time says it all.

In terms of personnel, the forward line issues are a microcosm of the bigger picture. There's a continual merry-go-round of the same faces in and out of the Bulldogs' set-up, on Saturday night against Brisbane Jarrad Grant was back for his first game of the season, while Liam Jones, available after suspension, played VFL.

So did Ayce Cordy, a player who like another VFL teammate Tom Campbell, the Dogs can't seem to decide on as a forward or ruckman. The senior 22, meanwhile, contained Grant, recruit Stewart Crameri and Tom Williams, two of whom don't have the capacity to play as genuine contested marking key forwards, the other a pinch-hitting key defender.

The juggling of options seems to have gone on for years now, and the Bulldogs don't look any more potent for it. Could they do any worse than give another raw key forward in Jack Redpath a crack now with the season already shot to bits?

But who else? The Bulldogs certainly seem to have more than their share of players who have had a taste of senior football but are still to convince even the Dogs they're a part of the best 22.

Lin Jong, Brett Goodes, Daniel Pearce, Sam Darley, Michael Talia, and Tom Young have all played senior football without owning a spot in the Dogs' best side. You could argue the same of three more who did line up against Brisbane, Jason Tutt, Christian Howard and Nathan Hrovat.

The Bulldogs have a chronic lack of leg speed around the ball, and their skills aren't up to scratch under intense physical pressure. Do any of those players named above have the necessary tools to be able to make a significant difference in those areas? You could hardly count on it.

Who's definitely there for the long haul? Tom Liberatore, Jack Macrae, Luke Dahlhaus and Jordan Roughead certainly, probably Mitch Wallis, Jake Stringer and Lachie Hunter, perhaps Jason Johannisen and injured pair Clay Smith and Tory Dickson. That's less than half a team around whom the Bulldogs can confidently plan a long-term future.

And plenty of "ifs", "buts" and "maybes", especially with Giansiracusa 32, Bob Murphy turning 32 on Monday and Matthew Boyd 32 in August.

Turning the blowtorch on McCartney might offer Bulldog fans some sort of cathartic release, but Jock McHale could take on the club's current list and still face the same set of longer-term problems.

And, longer-term problems, given a third successive home crowd of comfortably under 20,000 on Saturday night, are something the Bulldogs simply can't afford. Literally


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/western-bulldogs-dilemma-more-than-the-coach-20140608-zs16k.html#ixzz346pXUF6a

[Remi Moses]

Gee Rohan bit tough on a fewer of the younger blokes.
Not every young player cements a spot in the side.

[Remi Moses]

Most of the article is pretty reasonable

[azabob]

The articles are now coming thick and fast.

[Sedat]

Our form late last season also contained strong performances against Sydney, Essendon and Hawthorn, all of whom were top 4 at the time we played them. Our form last season after the GWS game was consistently good and far above anything we have dished in in 2014.

We didn't just catch a couple of teams on the hop as most scribes have alluded to. That level was not out of the box and it was consistently reached - there is absolutely no reason we should not have expected to match or even build on this platform in 2014.

[Remi Moses]

Yep no excuses ^^

[Topdog]

spot on Sedat

[Ghost Dog]

We are building on it. Anyone who has ever learned any kind of skill has had to take a step back in order to go forward.
We are having to adjust without Matty Boyd and essentially, Ryan Griffen. Add Grant to that who we just got back, and gave us a lift late last season. That is a lot of talent to be missing. As we adjust to that, it takes some time to replace those significant holes.

Bell shaped curve. There was a period there last year when everyone was sharpening knives with the coach's name on them.
Then we start winning towards the end of the year, against good teams. Brendan quickly goes into the good books and people accept he needs 5 years to implement his plan.

Now, again, we are in a downturn, but it won't last long. The concern I do have is the slow speed of moves made on game day. But I feel confident that Brendan will develop a team style that never says die ever. That's what I want.
Then, only clever drafting and eventually, someone with GF experience, can get us to the big dance.

[The bulldog tragician]

Sure, a lot of what he says makes sense and can't be denied, but other things betray that he hasn't bothered to do much in depth analysis, eg Hrovat hasn't yet 'owned' a spot is just sloppy journalism, showing that he hasn't taken much time, just taken a fashionable opportunity to join the groundswell of criticism.

[LostDoggy]

I think he has a point that would've benefitted from a better journalist's pen.

[Pickenitup]

Heard Gary Lyon on MMM today talking utter crap about us today saying the list is no good he Said Stephen Wallis a good kid but wont make it cant even get his name right also said there was a reason Jake Stringer wasn't a higher pick?Um hello broken leg you Muppet and said Hrovat and Hunter are too small and might play 40 or 60 games.Absolute joke of a commentator.

[kruder]

I think he has a point that would've benefitted from a better journalist's pen.

Outside of Hrovat he is spot on...

[Remi Moses]

Heard Gary Lyon on MMM today talking utter crap about us today saying the list is no good he Said Stephen Wallis a good kid but wont make it cant even get his name right also said there was a reason Jake Stringer wasn't a higher pick?Um hello broken leg you Muppet and said Hrovat and Hunter are too small and might play 40 or 60 games.Absolute joke of a commentator.

Bit fashionable to lay the boots in, and you have to sought through the dross spoken.
Steve Wallis has to be the worlds oldest kid.

[bornadog]

Heard Gary Lyon on MMM today talking utter crap about us today saying the list is no good he Said Stephen Wallis a good kid but wont make it cant even get his name right also said there was a reason Jake Stringer wasn't a higher pick?Um hello broken leg you Muppet and said Hrovat and Hunter are too small and might play 40 or 60 games.Absolute joke of a commentator.

Pretty simple don't listen to MMM, or watch the footy show.

[bulldogtragic]

Pretty simple don't listen to MMM, or watch the footy show.

Done and done.

[Scorlibo]

It's amazing how everyone can quite happily jump on the bandwagon to either criticise or praise out of form and in form teams respectively. Gary Lyon is one of the absolute worst commentators out there. He's what I consider an amplifier, doesn't bring anything new to the table, just feeds off what everyone else is saying and amplifies that.

I think Rohan Connolly's done enough research here/knows our problems well enough to comment. The weird thing about the article for mine is that he could just as well write precisely the same article, throw in another couple of young long-termers (such as Hrovat, Bontempelli and Campbell) and conclude, very positively, that we have over half a team's worth of good young players to base our team around. He could have written the same article about Melbourne or St Kilda.

On the subject of Melbourne, does anyone find it curious how Paul Roos is receiving enormous amounts of praise - even to the point of being considered the coach of the year - for taking Melbourne to the same number of wins as we've had? Similar lists, arguably we've performed better than they have, but Macca cops a roasting and Roos a toasting. Bizarre.

[Remi Moses]

Good points made, and wonder how much crap we'd cop playing that way.
Someone questioned our style not being worthy for Good Friday, but I ask was that style worthy of a stand alone game?
Melbourne have had a fair pick of the old apple tree since 07 ( before the compromised drafts)and finally starting to improve.
Granted some average players have improved, but let's be honest they've made some horrendous off field appointments.

[Sedat]

Melbourne have come from 2 wins in 2013, we've come from 9 wins. That's a start, Scorlibo. And he's done it after 1 pre-season in charge and with a long injury list.

[LostDoggy]

It's amazing how everyone can quite happily jump on the bandwagon to either criticise or praise out of form and in form teams respectively. Gary Lyon is one of the absolute worst commentators out there. He's what I consider an amplifier, doesn't bring anything new to the table, just feeds off what everyone else is saying and amplifies that.

I think Rohan Connolly's done enough research here/knows our problems well enough to comment. The weird thing about the article for mine is that he could just as well write precisely the same article, throw in another couple of young long-termers (such as Hrovat, Bontempelli and Campbell) and conclude, very positively, that we have over half a team's worth of good young players to base our team around. He could have written the same article about Melbourne or St Kilda.

On the subject of Melbourne, does anyone find it curious how Paul Roos is receiving enormous amounts of praise - even to the point of being considered the coach of the year - for taking Melbourne to the same number of wins as we've had? Similar lists, arguably we've performed better than they have, but Macca cops a roasting and Roos a toasting. Bizarre.

Patience and football are not good bedfellows. It's always amazed me how ready we are to apply the blowtorch and set fire to the whole place, but when somebody asks you to be patient for a few years — and let's face it, we've spent 60 years trying to do it the easy way and failed, what's 5 years dedicated to trying it the hard way matter?

If the club looked at our performances and decided Macca hasn't delivered on KPIs, ok, we'll cross that bridge, but basing such decisions on what the media thinks, or a string of bad form isn't what I call good business sense. Go back two years and dig up some articles about how Port had the worst list on the planet and wouldn't even survive long as a club. Rings a bell?

[bornadog]

Melbourne have come from 2 wins in 2013, we've come from 9 wins. That's a start, Scorlibo. And he's done it after 1 pre-season in charge and with a long injury list.

Wow 50% increase for Melbourne to rocket to 3 wins :D they are going places.

PS: We had 8 wins last year.

[Sedat]

Wow 50% increase for Melbourne to rocket to 3 wins :D they are going places.

PS: We had 8 wins last year.
8 wins or 9 (I had 9 in my head for some reason), we aren't going to match that this year with an easier draw and less injuries, and we are in year 3 of the coach's tenure.

Melbourne might end up tripling their wins this year compared to last, are in the first year of the coach's tenure and still have some serious long-term injuries that will only give them upside. Never thought I'd say this but they currently look better placed than we do to improve in the next few seasons.

[Scorlibo]

8 wins or 9 (I had 9 in my head for some reason), we aren't going to match that this year with an easier draw and less injuries, and we are in year 3 of the coach's tenure.

Melbourne might end up tripling their wins this year compared to last, are in the first year of the coach's tenure and still have some serious long-term injuries that will only give them upside. Never thought I'd say this but they currently look better placed than we do to improve in the next few seasons.

Something that's not even possible for us. Ignoring how much better we did than them last year, there's minimal difference in the shape of each team's list.

[bulldogtragic]

Goldsack was sharing a joke, rather actuality, Rodney Eade shouts breakfast for the playing 22 if the have the least points scored against. They Collingwood folk seem to like Rocket, he said it's going to cost a Rocket a fair bit this week.

[Sedat]

Ignoring how much better we did than them last year, there's minimal difference in the shape of each team's list.
Can't really agree with your sentiments. Melbourne now has the makings of a decent midfield (still behind ours for depth), and their key position stocks both down back and up forward are clearly superior to ours. And their ruck stocks are about the same level as ours.

[azabob]

Goldsack was sharing a joke, rather actuality, Rodney Eade shouts breakfast for the playing 22 if the have the least points scored against. They Collingwood folk seem to like Rocket, he said it's going to cost a Rocket a fair bit this week.

He (Goldsack) was on fox as a guest, wasn't he? Was he good?

I wouldn't mind seeing it. I will have to track it down.

[bulldogtragic]

He (Goldsack) was on fox as a guest, wasn't he? Was he good?

I wouldn't mind seeing it. I will have to track it down.

On the couch, he was fairly laid back and entertaining. Seemed to quite like Rocket.

[bornadog]

8 wins or 9 (I had 9 in my head for some reason), we aren't going to match that this year with an easier draw and less injuries, and we are in year 3 of the coach's tenure.

Melbourne might end up tripling their wins this year compared to last, are in the first year of the coach's tenure and still have some serious long-term injuries that will only give them upside. Never thought I'd say this but they currently look better placed than we do to improve in the next few seasons.

Kicking three goals in a game is not improvement. I can't see why all the accolades for Melbourne they are more competitive in games, just like we are, but still not winning. Having said that, they should be way ahead of us with the talent they have had access to in the drafts over the past 5 years.

[Sedat]

Kicking three goals in a game is not improvement. I can't see why all the accolades for Melbourne they are more competitive in games, just like we are, but still not winning. Having said that, they should be way ahead of us with the talent they have had access to in the drafts over the past 5 years.
Don't speak too soon - we've got the Pies next week.

If you can't see the significant improvement they have made from last year's rabble to this year to date, I'm not about to point it out to you.

[bornadog]

I can't see why all the accolades for Melbourne they are more competitive in games, just like we are, but still not winning.


Don't speak too soon - we've got the Pies next week.

If you can't see the significant improvement they have made from last year's rabble to this year to date, I'm not about to point it out to you.

Did I say that :confused:

[Webby]

On the subject of Melbourne, does anyone find it curious how Paul Roos is receiving enormous amounts of praise - even to the point of being considered the coach of the year - for taking Melbourne to the same number of wins as we've had? Similar lists, arguably we've performed better than they have, but Macca cops a roasting and Roos a toasting. Bizarre.

Melbourne were the lowest scoring team in the league last year and they're the lowest scoring team again this year - in fact, their scoring is slightly down on last year's.

The only difference is that their defence has improved. Roos basically has them juggling one ball at the moment. When they try to move to juggling two, and then three balls, they'll find (as we are) that progress is less meteoric!

They, like us, have a long road to travel.

The big difference is that they are feeling better about themselves than we are.

PS. Gary Lyon is just a very ordinary character on more levels than I'd care to mention on an open forum..

[Webby]

On the subject of Melbourne, does anyone find it curious how Paul Roos is receiving enormous amounts of praise - even to the point of being considered the coach of the year - for taking Melbourne to the same number of wins as we've had? Similar lists, arguably we've performed better than they have, but Macca cops a roasting and Roos a toasting. Bizarre.

Melbourne were the lowest scoring team in the league last year and they're the lowest scoring team again this year - in fact, their scoring is slightly down on last year's.

The only difference is that their defence has improved. Roos basically has them juggling one ball at the moment. When they try to move to juggling two, and then three balls, they'll find (as we are) that progress is less meteoric!

They, like us, have a long road to travel.

The big difference is that they are feeling better about themselves than we are.

PS. Gary Lyon is just a very ordinary character on more levels than I'd care to mention on an open forum..

[Sedat]

The only difference is that their defence has improved. Roos basically has them juggling one ball at the moment. When they try to move to juggling two, and then three balls, they'll find (as we are) that progress is less meteoric!

They, like us, have a long road to travel.
Yes it has, to the tune of 40 points a game. That is the biggest rate of improvement in one season in VFL/AFL history, and it includes the smashing they received at the hands of West Coke.

They have a long road to hoe but with their KP stocks at both ends undeniably better and deeper than ours, they look better placed to make the climb in the ladder a little quicker than us.

[Remi Moses]

Yes it has, to the tune of 40 points a game. That is the biggest rate of improvement in one season in VFL/AFL history, and it includes the smashing they received at the hands of West Coke.

They have a long road to hoe but with their KP stocks at both ends undeniably better and deeper than ours, they look better placed to make the climb in the ladder a little quicker than us.
As they should be considering they've been putrid for 7 years.
They've had awful coaches and development over the journey , and is something they've addressed bringing George Stone and the like from Sydney.

[Remi Moses]

Melbourne were the lowest scoring team in the league last year and they're the lowest scoring team again this year - in fact, their scoring is slightly down on last year's.

The only difference is that their defence has improved. Roos basically has them juggling one ball at the moment. When they try to move to juggling two, and then three balls, they'll find (as we are) that progress is less meteoric!

They, like us, have a long road to travel.

The big difference is that they are feeling better about themselves than we are.

PS. Gary Lyon is just a very ordinary character on more levels than I'd care to mention on an open forum..

What about his wonderful leadership.interesting I was at an establishment after the Grand Prix in the late 90's, and Garry was drinking with a young recently recruited number 1 draft pick. That player was hammered and there was his captain laughing and joking with him. Terrible leadership

[Webby]

What about his wonderful leadership.interesting I was at an establishment after the Grand Prix in the late 90's, and Garry was drinking with a young recently recruited number 1 draft pick. That player was hammered and there was his captain laughing and joking with him. Terrible leadership

Alcohol was/is not Garry's biggest 'Demon'.. And he's not the only 'inspirational' Dees captain between that era and now who enjoyed the night life a little too much....

[LostDoggy]

I personally couldn't give a rats arse how Melbourne is doing, or how it's at all relevant to the Bulldogs?

[westdog54]

I personally couldn't give a rats arse how Melbourne is doing, or how it's at all relevant to the Bulldogs?

Because Macca is being roasted in the media at the moment but Roos has been left untouched.

[bornadog]

Because Macca is being roasted in the media at the moment but Roos has been left untouched.

No not untouched but lauded how he has improved Melbourne.

[Scorlibo]

Because Macca is being roasted in the media at the moment but Roos has been left untouched.


No not untouched but lauded how he has improved Melbourne.

Yep. I totally understand also what Sedat has said about expectations coming into the season, but I feel even so that there can't be such a huge discrepancy in their treatment (best regarded coach in the league versus 17th best) given that the two teams are really at a similar stage of development.