Austin elevated to senior list

[bornadog]

The Western Bulldogs today elevated defender Mark Austin to the senior list ahead of Sunday’s clash against Collingwood.
Replacing Tory Dickson, who has been placed on the long term injury list with a pectoral injury, Austin adds height to the Bulldogs defensive line.
The 25-year-old’s impressive form for Footscray in the VFL resulted in the rookie elevation, as he looks to increase his 33 career games – 18 in Bulldogs colours.
Austin is yet to represent the Bulldogs in the senior side this season, but looked comfortable at the higher level in 2013 as a key defender.

[bornadog]

Why oh why - really?????

[chef]

That's just shit.

WTF is going on.

[The Underdog]

I couldn't wait to get here when I saw this. Hang on a sec, I'm just getting some popcorn and getting comfortable...

[bulldogtragic]

More defence, more contests.Stuff stopping the ball getting into the defensive 50, just keep defending. Oh, and not scoring...

'Williams playing in the forward-line' haters better suck this up.

Not quite the dose of hope I was looking for to excite me this week. There's no point upgrading him not to play for the rest of the year, so he needs to.

[azabob]

Funnily enough, I have thought Austin has performed well enough when given his opportunities at senior level.

Wonder if Morris or Roughead is injured?

[bornadog]

He has been upgraded three years in a row. Surely tghis is his last chance to prove he is an AFL player. He is now 25 years old. Website says 195cm, I thought he was closer to 190 but I must be wrong.

[bulldogtragic]

Can we de-elevate players?

[The Underdog]

I'll piss myself if he's being brought in so Roughy can go forward.

[bulldogtragic]

I'll piss myself if he's being brought in so Roughy can go forward.

Obviously Talia can't do that?

Serious slap to the kid, Austin and Roberts ahead of him. I hope he handles insult well.

[The Underdog]

Obviously Talia can't do that?

Or Roberts

[bulldogtragic]

Or Roberts

Sorry mate, I changed my post at the last second. Yep, as per my edit.

[bornadog]

I'll piss myself if he's being brought in so Roughy can go forward.

Oh please no

[Pickenitup]

I think Aussie has always played well when he has played seniors.It may free Roughy up to play forward /Ruck.

[bornadog]

I think Aussie has always played well when he has played seniors.It may free Roughy up to play forward /Ruck.

Or we need another tall against the Pies with Cloke and possibly Reid coming in.

[The Underdog]

Oh please no

I'm a fan of Austin, but this might be the single most hilarious move we could have made in regard to confusing & pudding off supporters. See what happens at selection.

[bulldogtragic]

Jong, Goodes and Austin all playing senior footy this year. odds of that happening last year...

Looks like I just lost a bet.. to myself.

[EasternWest]

Funnily enough, I have thought Austin has performed well enough when given his opportunities at senior level.

Wonder if Morris or Roughead is injured?


I'm a fan of Austin, but this might be the single most hilarious move we could have made in regard to confusing & pudding off supporters. See what happens at selection.

I like Austin well enough. I actually think he's borderline good enough and if he shows any scope for improvement then he's worth giving a chance to.

That being said, this season is totally shot and I think elevating him sends the wrong message. We've got talls already on the senior list - play them. Also, Austin is a known factor - let's elevate Redpath and see how his progression is really going.

Also, dammit Tom Campbell, why can't you improve on some of the promising things you showed us last year?

[azabob]

I like Austin well enough. I actually think he's borderline good enough and if he shows any scope for improvement then he's worth giving a chance to.

That being said, this season is totally shot and I think elevating him sends the wrong message. We've got talls already on the senior list - play them. Also, Austin is a known factor - let's elevate Redpath and see how his progression is really going.

Also, dammit Tom Campbell, why can't you improve on some of the promising things you showed us last year?

I agree with everything you have said.

I think supporters frustration is not to do with Austin, but the decision.

[bulldogtragic]

I agree with everything you have said.

I think supporters frustration is not to do with Austin, but the decision.

Exactly. Austin seems ok, but this decision is a bee's knob away from elevating another slow, poor skilled cracking in good attitude and hard training young man.

[Greystache]

I can understand the logic. I think the MC sat down and said to themselves, what's the most uninspiring move we can make, just on the off chance there's any motivation left in our supporters to want to go and watch us play? I know we'll promote Austin off the rookie list for the third year in a row. Well done, good choice.

After 33 games and 7 years in the AFL system it's a good time to find out what Austin has to offer. Rather than say give Roberts an actual go in defence, or reward the good form of Redpath.

I'm pumped for this weekend, bring on never ending stoppages and hacked forward kicks!!

[bulldogtragic]

I can understand the logic. I think the MC sat down and said to themselves, what's the most uninspiring move we can make, just on the off chance there's any motivation left in our supporters to want to go and watch us play? I know we'll promote Austin off the rookie list for the third year in a row. Well done, good choice.

After 33 games and 7 years in the AFL system it's a good time to find out what Austin has to offer. Rather than say give Roberts an actual go in defence, or reward the good form of Redpath.

I'm pumped for this weekend, bring on never ending stoppages and hacked forward kicks!!

Can that match committee go in with 22 defenders. The back six, and then defensive and over contested one paced mids, then defensive 'forwards' (but do not actual attacking) and some underdeveloped kids or now better yet, some rookie defenders on the bench. Only problem I have is Gia playing, seems like too much a natural forward.

[LostDoggy]

This is the final straw for me. Unless Roughy, Roberts and Talia are injured then this bloke shouldn't be playing.

Seriously what's the point? Other than blowing a perfect opportunity to fast track Roberts/Talia.

[bulldogtragic]

For those who understand player contracts/arrangements, doesn't Austin get a bonus or higher contract now?

If so, is this the best use of our little amount of money?

[GVGjr]

Once again I will buck the trend as I think this was the best move for us.

- Austin is capable of playing good football and has been playing good football for Footscray
- We have been having trouble with a 2nd ruckman or even looking to give Minson a spell. With Austin in the side, Roughead can do some ruck work.
- Talia and Roberts haven't measured up to expectations so far this year.
- Morris can be used on occasions with more mid sized forwards rather than key ones.

I don't understand the negativity towards Austin

[whythelongface]

Thanks GVGjr I hadn't realised that Austin had been playing decent football at Footscray. Do you think he will make the final 22?

[GVGjr]

Thanks GVGjr I hadn't realised that Austin had been playing decent football at Footscray. Do you think he will make the final 22?

It will be a close call. He has some faults but I think he can add something to the side if he plays near his best.

[Remi Moses]

Austin's not up to it .
Carlton wouldn't have let him go to start with.
He was put back in the Rookie list.
What's Austin got that Talia hasn't?

[Maddog37]

Becoming an Ecker hall of famer!

[Doc26]

Once again I will buck the trend as I think this was the best move for us.

- Austin is capable of playing good football and has been playing good football for Footscray
- We have been having trouble with a 2nd ruckman or even looking to give Minson a spell. With Austin in the side, Roughead can do some ruck work.
- Talia and Roberts haven't measured up to expectations so far this year.
- Morris can be used on occasions with more mid sized forwards rather than key ones.

I don't understand the negativity towards Austin

I'm not too troubled by the elevation either although I'm more troubled by the lack of progress in others that should've mitigated this from occurring in the first place. Although I'm not convinced that he can can cement a long term position, he has looked one of the more steady and consistent talls in defence for Footscray this season and at this point in time more composure than where Talia is at.

Good luck to Mark in giving it one last crack.

Hopefully we can find room sooner rather than later to test Jack in the forward half.

[Greystache]

Once again I will buck the trend as I think this was the best move for us.

- Austin is capable of playing good football and has been playing good football for Footscray
- We have been having trouble with a 2nd ruckman or even looking to give Minson a spell. With Austin in the side, Roughead can do some ruck work.
- Talia and Roberts haven't measured up to expectations so far this year.
- Morris can be used on occasions with more mid sized forwards rather than key ones.

I don't understand the negativity towards Austin

I know you've been a fan over the years G, but I look at Austin and see a player whose very best is a marginal AFL player with almost no upside. I was comfortable enough with him being retained on the rookie list should we have a spate of key defender injuries, but I certainly didn't want to see him get games in front of younger players with more upside.

To me his selection makes a statement that we really have no idea what our development strategy is, and we're playing to minimise the size of our losses week by week.

[Remi Moses]

That last paragraph sums it up.
It's a knock on Talia and Roberts, and their development.
If Roughy rucks, you'd hope they don't get a one on one with Austin on Cloke.
I wish him luck however .

[bulldogtragic]

Once again I will buck the trend as I think this was the best move for us.

- Austin is capable of playing good football and has been playing good football for Footscray
- We have been having trouble with a 2nd ruckman or even looking to give Minson a spell. With Austin in the side, Roughead can do some ruck work.
- Talia and Roberts haven't measured up to expectations so far this year.
- Morris can be used on occasions with more mid sized forwards rather than key ones.

I don't understand the negativity towards Austin

I can't speak for others, but I don't think the feelings are at him as a person or player. It's the decision of the club.

But to lay out the case against your optimism:

- Austin was only ever a depth player. Depth as I understand the word to mean it that he was on the list to cover a tall defender, or some such, not a medium forward. So replacing an apple with an orange seems bizarre. We didn't have to upgrade anybody, it wasn't a case of being forced to do anything.
- Austin has played good footy at the next level down against some pretty mediocre teams it must be said. The key is next level down, and against some very poor teams. You could also argue that Redpath has played equally well too, as he has played some good footy as much or as equal to Austin.
- If we need a second ruckman, why not try Cordy or Campbell before elevating Austin??
- Talia and Roberts haven't measured up to expectation... It could be argued that they haven't been played all that often in the seniors and in Roberts case when he did he was played out of position.
- If we are moving Morris of team's best or better defenders to play on mid sized forwards, leaving a VFL player to take that role, with our turnovers we are building a rod for Austin's back, he will get slaughtered over the last half of the year against the good teams we haven't even played yet.

If this is really what needs to happen, we should consider trading or delisting all the players who can't even apparently perform to the required level which forced us to upgrade Austin. If he's ahead of Roberts and Talia, when the league's best development coach (being Macca) then they will never make the grade. If we need Austin to help ruck with Campbell and Ayce on the list, than it's an indictment on them both.

Nothing at Austin, we were not forced into elevating anyone today. We did. It makes no real sense and members need a decent explanation.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah, sorry but I agree with what BT and Grey have said. If this is some sort of switch man pull by the club - like what they did with Markovic/Austin last year then it's not very impressive.

- no defenders are injured
- he's going to play in front of Talia, Young and Roberts
- if this is a switch/forward move then bring in Redpath who played a large portion last year down back at VFL level.

FWIW I don't dislike Austin. He's a known element, but I'd have loved to have seen the odds on Austin getting upgraded. Nobody saw it....and with good reason.

P.S This replaces Dickson? So there's still the ability to demote Jong/promote Redpath due to the post round 11 rule?

[G-Mo77]

Nothing against Austin. From all reports he's played well enough to get a call up so well done to him for working hard and getting another shot. However.......

He's been on the rookie list for 3 years and elevated each season, if he was good enough wouldn't he have a senior spot right now? He's a borderline listed player and he's not going to progress or make our team progress any more than it can. We've got to move forward, Talia and Roberts are players that will be who we are relying on. These players should be given the chance to play against one of the better sides of the competition, they need game time.

Redpath? Why not? Why not Macca? You said he needs to work on some things well last I checked so does our team. We can't kick freaking goals! That is something Redpath continues to do at VFL level. Why waste this opportunity to give the unknown a chance?

The Redpath non elevation doesn't tick me off the most, I'm more pissed about having Rookie players who look like they're never going to get a shot stay on our list season after season rather than take new picks in the last draft. What a complete waste!

More poor and weak decisions from our club.

[Scorlibo]

Once again I will buck the trend as I think this was the best move for us.

- Austin is capable of playing good football and has been playing good football for Footscray
- We have been having trouble with a 2nd ruckman or even looking to give Minson a spell. With Austin in the side, Roughead can do some ruck work.
- Talia and Roberts haven't measured up to expectations so far this year.
- Morris can be used on occasions with more mid sized forwards rather than key ones.

I don't understand the negativity towards Austin

I agree, in his time in the AFL he has shown better pace, strength and competitiveness than Talia or Roberts. He seemed to be pigeon holed very early by some simply because he was a bit older. He still has time on his side to forge a good career if he can grab his opportunity.

[F'scary]

Would have preferred to see...

The Widow-Maker

[The Underdog]

I agree, in his time in the AFL he has shown better pace, strength and competitiveness than Talia or Roberts. He seemed to be pigeon holed very early by some simply because he was a bit older. He still has time on his side to forge a good career if he can grab his opportunity.

I've always thought Austin was a solid AFL defender for us and while he may be a bit old in some eyes, he's 22 months older than Redpath who is older than Liam Jones & Tom Campbell.
Play the kids I say...

[boydogs]

Once again I will buck the trend as I think this was the best move for us.

I'm not opposed to making Talia & Roberts earn their chances at AFL level, just would have liked to see Redpath elevated instead

[GVGjr]

I can't speak for others, but I don't think the feelings are at him as a person or player. It's the decision of the club.

But to lay out the case against your optimism:

- Austin was only ever a depth player. Depth as I understand the word to mean it that he was on the list to cover a tall defender, or some such, not a medium forward. So replacing an apple with an orange seems bizarre. We didn't have to upgrade anybody, it wasn't a case of being forced to do anything.
.

He's played some good football when promoted. He might struggle with consistency but his best is good enough.



- Austin has played good footy at the next level down against some pretty mediocre teams it must be said. The key is next level down, and against some very poor teams. You could also argue that Redpath has played equally well too, as he has played some good footy as much or as equal to Austin.


Lets get back to the highlighted soon but Redpath doesn't have a natural read on the game. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision that was made but I'm backing it.



- If we need a second ruckman, why not try Cordy or Campbell before elevating Austin??


Because neither player is good enough in another position to be carried at the moment. Happy to see them as the first ruckman if needed but at the moment they just don't offer enough in another position like Roughead does.



- Talia and Roberts haven't measured up to expectation... It could be argued that they haven't been played all that often in the seniors and in Roberts case when he did he was played out of position.


It might be argued but if you are questioning that Austin has only been good against weak opposition as you posed above then what does it say for Talia who has been poor against the same opposition and Roberts who has been okay but not much better against the same opposition but also found to be slow and not being physically ready against in his games in the senior side? I don't buy that Roberts was played out of position.


- If we are moving Morris of team's best or better defenders to play on mid sized forwards, leaving a VFL player to take that role, with our turnovers we are building a rod for Austin's back, he will get slaughtered over the last half of the year against the good teams we haven't even played yet.


I never said that Morris would be moved onto mid sized players but I did say that the Austin promotion might allow us to use Morris in that manner. It's just an option and it would have to be against the right sides.

We will also be playing some taller sides in the coming weeks and I don't think we can keep pinch hitting with Wood.




If this is really what needs to happen, we should consider trading or delisting all the players who can't even apparently perform to the required level which forced us to upgrade Austin. If he's ahead of Roberts and Talia, when the league's best development coach (being Macca) then they will never make the grade. If we need Austin to help ruck with Campbell and Ayce on the list, than it's an indictment on them both.



That's your opinion and not one I share.

[GVGjr]

I'm not opposed to making Talia & Roberts earn their chances at AFL level, just would have liked to see Redpath elevated instead

I get that, I just don't accept the vitriol that some have put forward against the Austin promotion. We obviously haven't made the popular choice but I don't accept that it was clear cut that Redpath should have been the player promoted.

[Maddog37]

The calls for Redpath remind me of the calls to play Panos.

[GVGjr]

The calls for Redpath remind me of the calls to play Panos.

It's an excellent point. I was always against that move as well. In fairness to Redpath I think he is now a better prospect than Panos was.

[bulldogtragic]

He's played some good football when promoted. He might struggle with consistency but his best is good enough.



Lets get back to the highlighted soon but Redpath doesn't have a natural read on the game. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision that was made but I'm backing it.



Because neither player is good enough in another position to be carried at the moment. Happy to see them as the first ruckman if needed but at the moment they just don't offer enough in another position like Roughead does.



It might be argued but if you are questioning that Austin has only been good against weak opposition as you posed above then what does it say for Talia who has been poor against the same opposition and Roberts who has been okay but not much better against the same opposition but also found to be slow and not being physically ready against in his games in the senior side? I don't buy that Roberts was played out of position.



I never said that Morris would be moved onto mid sized players but I did say that the Austin promotion might allow us to use Morris in that manner. It's just an option and it would have to be against the right sides.

We will also be playing some taller sides in the coming weeks and I don't think we can keep pinch hitting with Wood.




That's your opinion and not one I share.

I appreciate the time you put into the response G. I didn't really care for the Redpath calls, the two times I really focused on Redpath this year, I agree he doesn't read the play well enough. Honestly, I'm not sure why we kept him. That aside, I don't think we needed to elevate anyone today. Redpath would've been an act of desperation, Austin is not a good call either though.

That Ayce, Campbell, Talia, Roberts, Redpath are all not clearly in favour is a bigger issue over 'Redpath or Austin'. If Macca is truly the best talent developer as has for a long time been recognised, then why are these 4 plus Jones, Wallis, Howard, Tutt (etc) gone nowhere this year?? The list and talent is stagnating, badly, and this decision confirms it.

[GVGjr]

I appreciate the time you put into the response G. I didn't really care for the Redpath calls, the two times I really focused on Redpath this year, I agree he doesn't read the play well enough. Honestly, I'm not sure why we kept him. That aside, I don't think we needed to elevate anyone today. Redpath would've been an act of desperation, Austin is not a good call either though.

That Ayce, Campbell, Talia, Roberts, Redpath are all not clearly in favour is a bigger issue over 'Redpath or Austin'. If Macca is truly the best talent developer as has for a long time been recognised, then why are these 4 plus Jones, Wallis, Howard, Tutt (etc) gone nowhere this year?? The list and talent is stagnating, badly, and this decision confirms it.

Talia hasn't been in the mix all year and I think the MC has this right. Roberts was given a go and to me he didn't appear to be ready. Campbell is close, Cordy has made some minor improvement this year but we aren't playing well enough to carry them as a key forward when not being used in the ruck. Redpath or Austin was a flip of the coin which landed Austins way because I think we are backing Jones to get back into the senior side which limits Redpath and Austin offers us some flexibility for the back line.

[bulldogtragic]

Talia hasn't been in the mix all year and I think the MC has this right. Roberts was given a go and to me he didn't appear to be ready. Campbell is close, Cordy has made some minor improvement this year but we aren't playing well enough to carry them as a key forward when not being used in the ruck. Redpath or Austin was a flip of the coin which landed Austins way because I think we are backing Jones to get back into the senior side which limits Redpath and Austin offers us some flexibility for the back line.

I don't necessarily disagree with those comments, but what does this say about the ten names in my previous post? We recruited a gun talent developer and these 10+ young men have not developed this year. That's over 20% of the list treading water. It's unacceptable and promoting Austin does nothing in the worst case scenario, but in the best case scenario wallpapers over the cracks for another year. I don't see the benefit of elevating anyone at the stage and circumstances we find ourselves is.

[LostDoggy]

Well that is it for Redpath, his days are numbered. If ever there was a chance to for him to be elevated it was now.
I actually don't mind Austin but Redpath should have been given a go.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Talia hasn't been in the mix all year and I think the MC has this right. Roberts was given a go and to me he didn't appear to be ready. Campbell is close, Cordy has made some minor improvement this year but we aren't playing well enough to carry them as a key forward when not being used in the ruck. Redpath or Austin was a flip of the coin which landed Austins way because I think we are backing Jones to get back into the senior side which limits Redpath and Austin offers us some flexibility for the back line.
Well done G on a good analysis. It would seem that Austin will now take the Magpies resting ruckman and release Morris to play on an Elliott type.The choice of Austin has merit given his consistent form with Footscray and the need to give Roughead an extra tall to support him against Cloke. I find it a little strange as to how the MC has handled Austin but at age 25 he still has some upside to become a handy player. I would hope that with this selection that it might open the door for Murphy to go forward.
,

[GVGjr]

I don't necessarily disagree with those comments, but what does this say about the ten names in my previous post? We recruited a gun talent developer and these 10+ young men have not developed this year. That's over 20% of the list treading water. It's unacceptable and promoting Austin does nothing in the worst case scenario, but in the best case scenario wallpapers over the cracks for another year. I don't see the benefit of elevating anyone at the stage and circumstances we find ourselves is.

You seem determined to want to make Macca the focus on a number of discussions but to answer your question and the points you raise on this one what I think it says is:
- Young players take time and will occasionally have a set back.
- Some young players don't hear the message as quickly as others.
- Some players won't be promoted just for the sake of it. Hopefully that applies to all players

I've listed the reasons on the players you nominated but I'll try and clarify further.
- Cordy is a back up ruckman but Will is holding his spot. He has improved a bit but will never be a quality player. We have room on the list for him but we don't currently have a spot in the senior side.
- Campbell is spending a lot of time in the ruck and is far more productive there than as a forward. He is still learning his craft and deserves a spot on the list. I don't think we can play him as a forward for 100 minutes and in the ruck for 20 in the senior side.
- JJ hasn't been the same since he was injured last year. He will be given another crack at it soon. I still rate him and I don't think he has gone backwards more like he has stalled. He just needs to re focus.
- Roberts isn't ready but is better than he was 12 months ago. I'm not convinced he can make it as a 100 game player but we shouldn't be in a rush to drop him off the list.
- Talia has been disappointing and has gone backwards. Long term this might make him a better footballer.
- Wallis has been found out a bit by opposition sides. He has the same problems as 12 months back regarding his skills and fitness. I'm not sure we can improve his skills that much but we should be able to get him fitter. He has limitations but a terrific attitude.
- Tutt has progressed this year. He is not a natural footballer at this level though. He has decent pace and skills which are needed.

All of this can be salvaged I think it's far to early to question Macca's development credentials or methods. The form displayed by young players are bound to fluctuate.

[bulldogtragic]

You seem determined to want to make Macca the focus on a number of discussions but to answer your question and the points you raise on this one what I think it says is:
- Young players take time and will occasionally have a set back.
- Some young players don't hear the message as quickly as others.
- Some players won't be promoted just for the sake of it. Hopefully that applies to all players

I've listed the reasons on the players you nominated but I'll try and clarify further.
- Cordy is a back up ruckman but Will is holding his spot. He has improved a bit but will never be a quality player. We have room on the list for him but we don't currently have a spot in the senior side.
- Campbell is spending a lot of time in the ruck and is far more productive there than as a forward. He is still learning his craft and deserves a spot on the list. I don't think we can play him as a forward for 100 minutes and in the ruck for 20 in the senior side.
- JJ hasn't been the same since he was injured last year. He will be given another crack at it soon. I still rate him and I don't think he has gone backwards more like he has stalled. He just needs to re focus.
- Roberts isn't ready but is better than he was 12 months ago. I'm not convinced he can make it as a 100 game player but we shouldn't be in a rush to drop him off the list.
- Talia has been disappointing and has gone backwards. Long term this might make him a better footballer.
- Wallis has been found out a bit by opposition sides. He has the same problems as 12 months back regarding his skills and fitness. I'm not sure we can improve his skills that much but we should be able to get him fitter. He has limitations but a terrific attitude.
- Tutt has progressed this year. He is not a natural footballer at this level though. He has decent pace and skills which are needed.

All of this can be salvaged I think it's far to early to question Macca's development credentials or methods. The form displayed by young players are bound to fluctuate.

Perhaps I was unclear through referencing a previous post when discussing the current one. Macca has had a fantastic reputation, he has had, and continues to have with regard to player development. That was the reason for his appointment, I have no issue whatsoever with this fact.

What I'm asking, I think is reasonable, is what does the decision to elevate Austin possibly infer?

- does it infer Redpath isn't up to it?
- does it infer Talia and Roberts are not developing at the rate expected from last year?
- does it infer, if we need a second ruck helper through either Austin or Roughy, that Ayce & Campbell have not developed at the rate expected from last year?

Also:

- why did any player need elevating today?
- is it made for the long term view, or short term necessities?
- when the pressure of the media puts pressure on a club, more often than not decisions are made that would have ordinarily not been made, and sometimes the coach under the pressure does things ordinarily not done, especially recruitments. Therefore it's reasonable to assess the decision more broadly than 'yes or no'.


Macca is universally respected and lauded for his player development. But if his players are not developing and this thread is about elevating a player we thought not worthy of permanent elevation for 3 years and presumably playing for the rest of the year in lieu of those others, then surely player development and Macca as the head of that is narrative around such a decision. I didn't question his credentials, rather I accept them fully. His methods can be questioned now, I disagree. He's had nearly 3 years and over 50 games, I'm not talking about last week. Also the decision today is a glimpse into the immediate future in that Austin will be played, and if we are playing to a long goal I really don't see what this does for the team/club. I contend that it to me is:

A) Short sighted and a reflection that outside pressure is being felt and/or

B) Unnecessary and/or

C) An admission to some degree that numerous of Macca's players are not developing


I think those three contentions are not unreasonable, and being that Macca had part in the decision and is at the end of the day responsible for player development and that this decisions is IMO clearly not a vote of confidence in the main listed players then I think the conversation includes Macca. As for the sub strategy or other, these too are ideas and strategies of his. I'm not sure how any critical comment can be made of any depth without Macca being mentioned. To use a political metaphor, if there are questions about many aspects of a government, over a sustained period, it would be akin to saying the leader of the ruling party can't be mentioned or even questioned as to method, policy, strategy etc.

[LostDoggy]

I contend that it to me is:

A) Short sighted and a reflection that outside pressure is being felt and/or

B) Unnecessary and/or

C) An admission to some degree that numerous of Macca's players are not developing


I think those three contentions are not unreasonable, and being that Macca had part in the decision and is at the end of the day responsible for player development and that this decisions is IMO clearly not a vote of confidence in the main listed players then I think the conversation includes Macca. As for the sub strategy or other, these too are ideas and strategies of his. I'm not sure how any critical comment can be made of any depth without Macca being mentioned. To use a political metaphor, if there are questions about many aspects of a government, over a sustained period, it would be akin to saying the leader of the ruling party can't be mentioned or even questioned as to method, policy, strategy etc.

I think you are limiting the options a little. For instance, Macca could be prioritising the development of Talia, Campbell, Cordy, Redpath, Fletcher Roberts and the like by not playing them in the ones. And in a sense feeding Austin to the lions (or Pies) in order to free up Roughead to give Minson some much needed support and stop him breaking down completely.

Or he could have decided that a number of players listed above are not up to it and not worth wasting AFL game time on them. And if they aren't up to it then can you blame Macca's development? Face it Cordy has had injuries and was poor way before Macca got here. The only way to test this is if a player leaves us and kicks on elsewhere.

The list management at the end of this year will tell us a lot.

Just some food for thought.

And by the way Austin is a bit of a spud, but would rather he was cannon fodder than say Talia (was it Rocca, Cloke or Franklin who destroyed a young Zac Dawson and cost him a Hawks spot by wrecking his confidence?)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This has to be the most uninspiring selection of all time.

Finding it tough to even want to discuss anything dog-related. I know a few will raise the "then why post" line, and that's fair - but these types of decisions neither improve the present nor build us a brighter future, so I'm left feeling very, very flat.

Austin playing ahead of young key defenders simply doesn't wash well in my opinion. I know neither have set the world on fire but Austin is VFL standard, 25, and played enough footy for us to know he has no future. I often agree with a lot of what GVG says, but I couldn't disagree more with this. There's no logic to playing Austin - he will not improve us as a side now, or in two years. Talia/Roberts might.

If he plays forward, the same can be said for Campbell/Cordy and to a lesser degree Redpath - who whilst is coming from a long way back, would make sense to elevate given he's an unknown commodity that we've had training with us for three years. We still don't know if he can play - and I guess we'll just assume he can't and delist him at year's end now. Great management.

At least we'll be getting a top 4 draft pick.

[LostDoggy]

This has to be the most uninspiring selection of all time...
If he plays forward, the same can be said for Campbell/Cordy and to a lesser degree Redpath - who whilst is coming from a long way back, would make sense to elevate given he's an unknown commodity that we've had training with us for three years. We still don't know if he can play - and I guess we'll just assume he can't and delist him at year's end now. Great management.

At least we'll be getting a top 4 draft pick.

If none of the other backs are playing well in the VFL why do you think they will suddenly be AFL standard players?

In any case, while a spud, Austin from reports has been our best back so what does that say about the others?

I wouldn't be panicking, Austin is canon fodder to protect other players and allow them time to develop safely in the twos away from Cloke, Roughead, Franklin, Tippett, etc. Kind of like a nightwatchman.:)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If none of the other backs are playing well in the VFL why do you think they will suddenly be AFL standard players?

In any case, while a spud, Austin from reports has been our best back so what does that say about the others?

I wouldn't be panicking, Austin is canon fodder to protect other players and allow them time to develop safely in the twos away from Cloke, Roughead, Franklin, Tippett, etc. Kind of like a nightwatchman.:)

Roberts (especially) has performed well at VFL level and I thought he was OK at AFL level. Talia hasn't starred but hasn't been beaten either, from all accounts.

This simply smacks of the MC trying to 'limit' the short term damage.

[lemmon]

Roberts (especially) has performed well at VFL level and I thought he was OK at AFL level. Talia hasn't starred but hasn't been beaten either, from all accounts.

This simply smacks of the MC trying to 'limit' the short term damage.
My sentiments as well. I liked the job Roberts did when he was played back in the seniors. I don't see what this move brings

[bornadog]

Roberts (especially) has performed well at VFL level and I thought he was OK at AFL level. Talia hasn't starred but hasn't been beaten either, from all accounts.

This simply smacks of the MC trying to 'limit' the short term damage.


My sentiments as well. I liked the job Roberts did when he was played back in the seniors. I don't see what this move brings


What I don't get is Roberts was ok against Melbourne playing in the backline and then against Freo we stick him in the forward line against one of the strongest AFL backlines and then drop him. Why didn't he play in the backline that night?

I don't get it, its not as if we are a contender. I know he will develop in the VFL, then why in the hell was he elevated and dropped.

[Mofra]

- he's going to play in front of Talia, Young and Roberts
If he's performing better than the three of them, what's the issue in elevating him?

We should reward players for their form & effort, not gift games to players simply based on age.
Talia clearly has some issues to work on as per many comments here, if he is not hitting the benchmark required to play - he doesn't play.
All three have been dropped for poor form this year.

[Doc26]

What I don't get is Roberts was ok against Melbourne playing in the backline and then against Freo we stick him in the forward line against one of the strongest AFL backlines and then drop him. Why didn't he play in the backline that night?

I don't get it, its not as if we are a contender. I know he will develop in the VFL, then why in the hell was he elevated and dropped.

I agree. We should certainly have persevered with Fletcher and locked him into a position for the rest of the season.
As contradictory as it sounds I'm also not overly troubled by giving Austin another crack at it given that he has been as solid as any down back for Footscray this season.

In a season where we're not a viable finals proposition I'm comfortable with trialing those for a period of time until it is seen as a given that they are still far from the mark. With Howard & Goodes I've seen enough to understand where their future with us is now at; Talia, Cordy, Young and I dare say it Campbell, for different reasons, are not yet ready and should continue to be developed at Footscray.

[1eyedog]

We have absolutely no idea about what to do with the rotating circus that is Austin, Talia, Roberts and Williams. Now Jones is on the outer again...

[bornadog]

I thought he held his own today, doesn't panick and won a few contests.

[josie]

I thought he held his own today, doesn't panick and won a few contests.

Agree, was a little eager & gave away two frees early on which I think led to goals, however steadied after that.

Like the fact he kept his feet today.

Can anyone remember who did he spend the majority of time on after that?

[F'scary]

I thought he held his own today, doesn't panick and won a few contests.

Agree. His dogged attitude and sticking to the basics is something Williams, Roberts & Talia need to emulate badly.

[boydogs]

I thought he held his own today, doesn't panick and won a few contests.

He beat Jesse White well. He was also pretty good with the ball in hand and was good at holding on to it until a target presented itself when he was being tackled. There were one or two occasions when he didn't link up well but that's to be expected when adjusting to the pace of the game at AFL level. Hopefully he can continue to be solid for us and save Wood playing tall or Stringer playing back

[SonofScray]

When his moments in the game arrived, he did his job. Contested well and was safe with the ball. Exactly what we know he can offer.

[bulldogtragic]

While the debate about not having a pup in the team remains seperate, he gets a pass mark from me. He gave away a few frees that led to goals, but White wasn't seen today so that's a pass.

[azabob]

While the debate about not having a pup in the team remains seperate, he gets a pass mark from me. He gave away a few frees that led to goals, but White wasn't seen today so that's a pass.

At only 25 he could in theory play for another 5-7 years if good enough.

[bulldogtragic]

At only 25 he could in theory play for another 5-7 years if good enough.

There's a few key words in that sentence :)

[azabob]

There's a few key words in that sentence :)

Touché, my friend. Touché.

[GVGjr]

With Williams a late withdrawal I think we can now see why we promoted Austin. He did his job today. Nothing special but the real upside is we gave the number one forwards spot to Jones and he more than answered the challenge.

Austin just gives us some options. Maybe he will be pitted against Westhoff next week

[always right]

Austin's elevation turned out to be an inspired move. The big question is whether he should be retained after this year. I certainly feel far more confident with him one out than I do with Williams.

[F'scary]

His name is so bland. Maybe if he got a decent nick name it would help his chances?

Ozzy Austin?

473

[Ozza]

Nullified White completely (5 possessions) and did fine with the ball. Reckon he went well, and apart from getting caught once, actually took the right options quickly and got us out of a couple of pressure moments.

Was really pleased for him. I heard him speak at the social club a few weeks back and he seems to have a great attitude and enthusiasm about getting better.

[LostDoggy]

I liked his game ......... and feel more comfortable with than Tom Williams.

[Bulldog Joe]

He certainly gets a comfortable pass mark from me.

[always right]

What I like about Austin is that he plays in front and anticipates well which helps him to lead his opponent to the ball on most occasions. His biggest downfall is that he really isn't key position size but he has the height and athleticism to play on different types.

The MC copped a bit of criticism when they upgraded him which was perfectly justified. I wonder if he is in their long term plans and whether his upgrade might be a result of Tom Williams indicating to the club that this is his last year. Just speculating.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd prefer him to Williams.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd prefer him to Williams.

When you put it like that, I completely agree.

[Greystache]

I'd prefer him to Williams.

Easily. That's not to say either is a long term AFL defender. I don't mind him as depth, I just hope we're developing a genuine key defender to support Roughy long term. Next year will be interesting to see if we're prepared to promote him onto the senior list.